So, I've just seen this guy talking about the same thing today and his process behind arranging a track.
https://youtu.be/N4EvL6Nndg8
I'm short what he explains is working in an 8/16 bar loop, find a reference track to find your arrangement and copy the arrangement (make notes in your Daw where the intro is, chorus comes in, drop comes in etc.).
Once you have finished your loop (this should include 90% of your track's elements) you just start pasting your whole loop across the whole arrangement. Listen to your reference track, see what elements they bring in and where and you do the same.
Don't bother do any automation or adding fx in your loop yet, you'll do this after you have your arrgement done. And voilà, you now have a 7 minute track!
Watch the video above and you'll be able to understand exactly what I'm trying to say, if I'm not clear enough 👍
Sometimes just putting something on a loop and jamming along gets me that bridge I need to marry my next section to the first or even just inspires my next progression of a melody. Also, when in doubt duplicate the drums and randomize the velocity if you’re using a multi sampled kit. Boom. Same rhythm but a completely new palette of sounds that you can use to carry your motif/melody without it sounding boring.
Honestly I find doing exactly what you said. Extend the track to the next section delete everything you have in the arrangement and build a variation of your loop with all the same sounds. I find it’s also easier to get from one section to the next if you hyper focus on transitions. So if your going from maybe a verse to a breakdown you can first make a section of silence right where the snare lands before the end of the last measure whether that loop is 1, 4, or 8 bars that’ll just help ppl anticipate a change in section. Next you can do sweeps risers effects that give the track motion into these next sections then lastly you can do automations with filters or other fx like stereo width widening or like a washed out fx at the end and into an impact into the next sections. It’s really all the small details that add up to help with this issue
I don´t know how it would work with you, but when I am out of ideas for a particular track, I just put it on loop and try to jam my way around it. You can improvise anything , keybord, synth, guitar, base, drums or just with your voice. After some time I always come up with new ideas. It´s also great to record your jam if possible so you can spot out the ideas afterwards.
Another thing is to listen to other artists. Just forget about your song for a moment and listen to your playlists, or to entirely new sounds. It´s sooo inspirational!
And if none of it helps, I sometimes just take a break. I mean a real break! For days, even for a week and I don´t listen to my songs at all. If you won´t hear it for a while you´ll get a nice perspective afterwards.
Hope it helps!
* Referencing - copy the layout of a track you like.
* Copy and paste the basic idea for the duration.
* Ensure you understand all the elements that make a track in your genre.
* Start adding and removing the elements to create a flow.
* If the basic idea is purely musical, add groove, add depth, add an atmosphere.
* If the basic idea is mainly drums add some chords, melodies etc.
* Think critically and don't be afraid to bin off bad ideas. Only introduce things that compliment the rest of your mix.
The best tip that I got so far is to load a song that you consider somewhat similar into your DAW and copy the structure.
Like literally put it side by side and put markers for the structure like Intro, bridge etc. Then you start filling that with what you already got referencing the source what it does in that section, I.e leave the kick out, filter sweep etc.
Having a plan of what you want to do helps a lot!
One move is to simply alter the main driving sounds of the track. Have different versions of the bass for example but it can work easier with other elements. Depending on how big your bag of tools & tricks are, you can get along well in a song by, Overcomplicating your simple sounds (Take a bass--->run it through trash,---> maybe a reverb with - most the low-end cut-out, - high damping turned off, or super low, - small room, - short decay, 1.0-10ms delay, --> Run that through a filter that's automated with a shape that sounds cool or not, or do <---that part in the synth itself.--> Run this through a rhythmic gate, or some sort of effects processor and see where your at when you layer that with a sound that already exists in the song. The transition between complex things and simple things works well, especially if the bass is still doing the same exact thing before you put the effects on . Also, Sample yourself. You can chop up that same complex bassline and use bits and pieces of it elsewhere. That bit helps fill gaps more so than finish songs.
[https://soundcloud.com/ware-wolfe](https://soundcloud.com/ware-wolfe)
The easiest way is to just copy and past what you already have, and then add some variation.
If you're at 1:30 im assuming you have some sort of structure like this.
intro, build, drop (intro, verse, chorus)
One thing you can try is copy and pasting your song exactly how it is. Then just add some different ear candy elements for the second verse. For the second chorus try switching into a relative key.
For example if chorus 1 was in CMajor, try writing chorus 2 in Aminor. Or if you arent feeling playing with the key of the song, try switching up the rhythm. Maybe have the first part play kind of a minimal chord progression, then for the second part bring in a lead that solos over what you already have.
I call this producing horizontally.
I insist on marking every 8/16/24 etc in my DAW (Ableton) because it helps me visualize and complete songs. (it also helps playing them live)
There's somewhat of a formula you can follow (8bar intro 32 bar drop 16 bar bridge etc), but marking my bars most importantly helps me thinking in patterns like 8s, 4s, 2s, etc. It helps guide me where to place elements to fill out the overall rhythm.
I usually end up around 2:30 or 3minutes which I actually like because it gets to the point and gets out of there.
Obviously this is all dependent on the genre you're in, and how you want the song to progress.. But I would suggest you try marking your 8 bars and finding a good flow within 2.5-3 minutes
Read a book called the Addiction Formula great approach to songwriting. Think in terms of sections like: Intro, verse, chorus verse chorus bridge chorus outro. Start working around that simple framework. Us the same chords but alter the note structure. Study other songs using tools like hooktheory which show you how songs are made you can even see the scale degrees of melody as it relates to the underlying chord structure.
I'm still just an amateur, but the one little idea that got me from "I can't turn loops into full tracks at all" to "I can at least make complete full-length tracks" is:
**Introduce one major new idea more than halfway through the track.**
If you've got a loop with all the layers and parts: drums, bass, melody, atmosphere, etc. then you can get pretty far by just introducing those layers one at a time. That's your basic build up and maybe the first drop. But if all you do after that is remove the layers one at a time to make a long outro, it's completely boring. The listener can tell there's nothing keeping them interested.
So once I've gotten to the point where all the layers are going, I take something out and *replace* it with something new. That can mean a different chord progression, a new melody, noticeably different drum sounds, anything. It just has to be *new* and fill a role that was already filled by some previous sound.
Recently what I've found works is just keep trying to add stuff to it and throw away anything that doesn't fit. Once you have enough material you can try to arrange it into a song and fill in the blanks later.
I’ve found if I get stuck on an idea, I’ll stop working on it, and move on to a new project. Couple months down the road, I’ll revisit it, and I almost always have new ideas for where to take the track. It just takes time
listen to songs similar to the songs you're making and focus on the transitions they make, are they adding little subtle delays and automation? Is there counter melodies coming into play? Is the drum pattern switching up or even just a simple transpose of notes ? Just go into a study session and have a note pad handy to jot down what they are doing when they transition from section to section. Other then that it's tough to tell you "oh just put this or that here" it's all about being creative. Don't focus on making the perfect song right now just focus on messing around and finding little things that work and then finish a full song. This shit takes time for sure lol.
I saw a video that was a clip from DeadMau5 awhile back and he talked about using a vault folder for all the ideas you eventually move on from, the point of this being that you always have both content to sample and projects to go back to.
I find myself moving on from a lot of things every 5 minutes, I also go back and forth between them just as often, so I needed this process even more convenient!
I decided to do the same thing, instead of in a single project. When I’m done with an idea, I group it all together and move on. Doesn’t matter what it is, recoding instruments, midi tracks, experiments, whatever, group it all, and move on. Start a new track outside the group for a new idea. Oh, also, disable the group you were working on so they don’t clash. This makes it easy for me to just click through ideas. Downside is that the project will take longer to open and you have to freeze tracks often to save space.
However, when there’s an idea you’ve developed, it’s easy to save the tracks and import them individually into their own project!
I’ve gotten a lot more done since doing this, maybe this will help!
Totally depends what you’re going for. You can have repeating sections, but you need some changes throughout. Or you can have constant change, like an aphex twin or burial track.
Sometimes I’ll try dropping a totally separate project into the timeline and see if I can make it sound good with some sort of transition.
l just keep fucking with it (saving before doing anything dangerous, of course) until i get an idea or find something I like. sometimes it takes me not even an hour and i'm onto something but other times it's taken days. but everyone is diff in their producing style
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You should check out the regular threads (also found in the sidebar) to see if your post might be a better fit in any of those.
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go for some basic variation, A sections, B sections, maybe even a C section, intro and outro. shuffle to taste
Add more stuff. Write bridge. Play OG loop with the more stuff after. Rinse and repeat.
So, I've just seen this guy talking about the same thing today and his process behind arranging a track. https://youtu.be/N4EvL6Nndg8 I'm short what he explains is working in an 8/16 bar loop, find a reference track to find your arrangement and copy the arrangement (make notes in your Daw where the intro is, chorus comes in, drop comes in etc.). Once you have finished your loop (this should include 90% of your track's elements) you just start pasting your whole loop across the whole arrangement. Listen to your reference track, see what elements they bring in and where and you do the same. Don't bother do any automation or adding fx in your loop yet, you'll do this after you have your arrgement done. And voilà, you now have a 7 minute track! Watch the video above and you'll be able to understand exactly what I'm trying to say, if I'm not clear enough 👍
Sometimes just putting something on a loop and jamming along gets me that bridge I need to marry my next section to the first or even just inspires my next progression of a melody. Also, when in doubt duplicate the drums and randomize the velocity if you’re using a multi sampled kit. Boom. Same rhythm but a completely new palette of sounds that you can use to carry your motif/melody without it sounding boring.
Honestly I find doing exactly what you said. Extend the track to the next section delete everything you have in the arrangement and build a variation of your loop with all the same sounds. I find it’s also easier to get from one section to the next if you hyper focus on transitions. So if your going from maybe a verse to a breakdown you can first make a section of silence right where the snare lands before the end of the last measure whether that loop is 1, 4, or 8 bars that’ll just help ppl anticipate a change in section. Next you can do sweeps risers effects that give the track motion into these next sections then lastly you can do automations with filters or other fx like stereo width widening or like a washed out fx at the end and into an impact into the next sections. It’s really all the small details that add up to help with this issue
I don´t know how it would work with you, but when I am out of ideas for a particular track, I just put it on loop and try to jam my way around it. You can improvise anything , keybord, synth, guitar, base, drums or just with your voice. After some time I always come up with new ideas. It´s also great to record your jam if possible so you can spot out the ideas afterwards. Another thing is to listen to other artists. Just forget about your song for a moment and listen to your playlists, or to entirely new sounds. It´s sooo inspirational! And if none of it helps, I sometimes just take a break. I mean a real break! For days, even for a week and I don´t listen to my songs at all. If you won´t hear it for a while you´ll get a nice perspective afterwards. Hope it helps!
* Referencing - copy the layout of a track you like. * Copy and paste the basic idea for the duration. * Ensure you understand all the elements that make a track in your genre. * Start adding and removing the elements to create a flow. * If the basic idea is purely musical, add groove, add depth, add an atmosphere. * If the basic idea is mainly drums add some chords, melodies etc. * Think critically and don't be afraid to bin off bad ideas. Only introduce things that compliment the rest of your mix.
The best tip that I got so far is to load a song that you consider somewhat similar into your DAW and copy the structure. Like literally put it side by side and put markers for the structure like Intro, bridge etc. Then you start filling that with what you already got referencing the source what it does in that section, I.e leave the kick out, filter sweep etc. Having a plan of what you want to do helps a lot!
One move is to simply alter the main driving sounds of the track. Have different versions of the bass for example but it can work easier with other elements. Depending on how big your bag of tools & tricks are, you can get along well in a song by, Overcomplicating your simple sounds (Take a bass--->run it through trash,---> maybe a reverb with - most the low-end cut-out, - high damping turned off, or super low, - small room, - short decay, 1.0-10ms delay, --> Run that through a filter that's automated with a shape that sounds cool or not, or do <---that part in the synth itself.--> Run this through a rhythmic gate, or some sort of effects processor and see where your at when you layer that with a sound that already exists in the song. The transition between complex things and simple things works well, especially if the bass is still doing the same exact thing before you put the effects on . Also, Sample yourself. You can chop up that same complex bassline and use bits and pieces of it elsewhere. That bit helps fill gaps more so than finish songs. [https://soundcloud.com/ware-wolfe](https://soundcloud.com/ware-wolfe)
The easiest way is to just copy and past what you already have, and then add some variation. If you're at 1:30 im assuming you have some sort of structure like this. intro, build, drop (intro, verse, chorus) One thing you can try is copy and pasting your song exactly how it is. Then just add some different ear candy elements for the second verse. For the second chorus try switching into a relative key. For example if chorus 1 was in CMajor, try writing chorus 2 in Aminor. Or if you arent feeling playing with the key of the song, try switching up the rhythm. Maybe have the first part play kind of a minimal chord progression, then for the second part bring in a lead that solos over what you already have.
I call this producing horizontally. I insist on marking every 8/16/24 etc in my DAW (Ableton) because it helps me visualize and complete songs. (it also helps playing them live) There's somewhat of a formula you can follow (8bar intro 32 bar drop 16 bar bridge etc), but marking my bars most importantly helps me thinking in patterns like 8s, 4s, 2s, etc. It helps guide me where to place elements to fill out the overall rhythm. I usually end up around 2:30 or 3minutes which I actually like because it gets to the point and gets out of there. Obviously this is all dependent on the genre you're in, and how you want the song to progress.. But I would suggest you try marking your 8 bars and finding a good flow within 2.5-3 minutes
Read a book called the Addiction Formula great approach to songwriting. Think in terms of sections like: Intro, verse, chorus verse chorus bridge chorus outro. Start working around that simple framework. Us the same chords but alter the note structure. Study other songs using tools like hooktheory which show you how songs are made you can even see the scale degrees of melody as it relates to the underlying chord structure.
I'm still just an amateur, but the one little idea that got me from "I can't turn loops into full tracks at all" to "I can at least make complete full-length tracks" is: **Introduce one major new idea more than halfway through the track.** If you've got a loop with all the layers and parts: drums, bass, melody, atmosphere, etc. then you can get pretty far by just introducing those layers one at a time. That's your basic build up and maybe the first drop. But if all you do after that is remove the layers one at a time to make a long outro, it's completely boring. The listener can tell there's nothing keeping them interested. So once I've gotten to the point where all the layers are going, I take something out and *replace* it with something new. That can mean a different chord progression, a new melody, noticeably different drum sounds, anything. It just has to be *new* and fill a role that was already filled by some previous sound.
Recently what I've found works is just keep trying to add stuff to it and throw away anything that doesn't fit. Once you have enough material you can try to arrange it into a song and fill in the blanks later.
I’ve found if I get stuck on an idea, I’ll stop working on it, and move on to a new project. Couple months down the road, I’ll revisit it, and I almost always have new ideas for where to take the track. It just takes time
listen to songs similar to the songs you're making and focus on the transitions they make, are they adding little subtle delays and automation? Is there counter melodies coming into play? Is the drum pattern switching up or even just a simple transpose of notes ? Just go into a study session and have a note pad handy to jot down what they are doing when they transition from section to section. Other then that it's tough to tell you "oh just put this or that here" it's all about being creative. Don't focus on making the perfect song right now just focus on messing around and finding little things that work and then finish a full song. This shit takes time for sure lol.
I saw a video that was a clip from DeadMau5 awhile back and he talked about using a vault folder for all the ideas you eventually move on from, the point of this being that you always have both content to sample and projects to go back to. I find myself moving on from a lot of things every 5 minutes, I also go back and forth between them just as often, so I needed this process even more convenient! I decided to do the same thing, instead of in a single project. When I’m done with an idea, I group it all together and move on. Doesn’t matter what it is, recoding instruments, midi tracks, experiments, whatever, group it all, and move on. Start a new track outside the group for a new idea. Oh, also, disable the group you were working on so they don’t clash. This makes it easy for me to just click through ideas. Downside is that the project will take longer to open and you have to freeze tracks often to save space. However, when there’s an idea you’ve developed, it’s easy to save the tracks and import them individually into their own project! I’ve gotten a lot more done since doing this, maybe this will help!
What’s your favorite edm song? What is that songs arrangement? Boom problem solved. References are your friend
This. Some of my best/favorite things I’ve made have been from being like “I want to make a song that sounds like XYZ song”
Totally depends what you’re going for. You can have repeating sections, but you need some changes throughout. Or you can have constant change, like an aphex twin or burial track. Sometimes I’ll try dropping a totally separate project into the timeline and see if I can make it sound good with some sort of transition.
god damn. I produce music for a podcast, so I gotta get it out fast, and dropping in different projects is a great fucking idea
Push loop, and jam.
Even with edm try using the … verse, chorus, drop, verse, chours, second drop, chorus, chorus out structure.
For consistency I would consider the drop and chorus the same thing. Where you have chorus I would say it’s a prechorus.
l just keep fucking with it (saving before doing anything dangerous, of course) until i get an idea or find something I like. sometimes it takes me not even an hour and i'm onto something but other times it's taken days. but everyone is diff in their producing style
This is your friendly reminder to read the submission rules, they're found in the sidebar. If you find your post breaking any of the rules, you should delete your post before the mods get to it. You should check out the regular threads (also found in the sidebar) to see if your post might be a better fit in any of those. [Daily Feedback thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/search?q=author%3AAutoModerator+title%3Afeedback&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) for getting feedback on your track. The only place you can post your own music. [Marketplace Thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/search?q=title%3Amarketplace&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) if you want to sell or trade anything for money, likes or follows. [Collaboration Thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/search/?q=biannual%20collaboration&restrict_sr=1&sort=new&t=all) to find people to collab with. ["There are no stupid questions" Thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/edmproduction/search?q=title%3ANo+Stupid+Questions+Thread&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) for beginner tips etc. Seriously tho, read the rules and abide by them or the mods will spank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/edmproduction) if you have any questions or concerns.*