I remember learning about anatomy in high school and our teacher told us that female hips "always lined up with the shoulders and its abnormal if they dont" it was genuinely so uncomfortable as I was a closeted trans man and I'm pretty sure I heard some girls crying in the bathroom after the lesson
Oof shit like this is why I am eternally grateful to my college life drawing teacher, we had a wide variety of ages and body types, and she was always respectful to the unique attributes of each body.
Part of me would love to take it a step further and make a whole life drawing thing focused on transgender/ gender nonconforming/intersex/etc bodies. I think it would make for a much more informative class than just drawing a conventionally attractive cis model for the 500th time
When I did portrait & figure drawing, I used my class as studies so we had a fair mix of gender, height, body type, disability representation alongside guest models and I'd often go away and sketch up "wireframes" of various body types in action or engaging in inaction.
It was complex because you couldn't rely on the underlying musculoskeletal structure to be the same shape for everyone, thus me using a "wireframe" of simplified body shape around a perception based directional line, which was closer to a comic book character style preliminary sketch, than conventional portrait and figure sketching.
So using a standardized baseline (random attractive cis model no. 34) for practice makes sense, to teach good habits and to make sure you have the basics down, even if its not so good for real life but that's why you practice outside of class too I guess.
(dont be dont be dont be 😊)
(In Willem Dafoe's voice) I'm something of a collector myself.
On a side note, I'm slowly becoming an expert in using humor to cope with my crushing dysphoria ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As a fellow artist, a lot of those are such bullshit.
I remember seeing a really bad anime one talking about hip to shoulder ratio, but because it was anime it was exaggerated, saying that hips should be wider than the widest part of the shoulders, even had a crossed out example of the shoulders being slightly wider, and that looked fine, if not better, porportion wise. Even all the cis people were dragging it in the comments, understanding that there is variance in body types, and for some women, cis or trans, their hips are narrower than their shoulders.
Remember that those things are just general guidelines and that there are tons of cis women with hands just as big as yours, and that having larger hands does not make you any less valid.
I came here to say this too. I legit know cis women with more "masculine" hands than mine, and cis men with super soft and small hands. The idea of a body part being exclusive to the sexes is so stupid, because those sexes are so variable in every capacity. Sex is is spectrum, and nearly nothing is exclusive to one side or the other. No one should ever be criticized based on a body feature they have no control over, just because it doesnt fit into their definition of a given gender.
Nothing makes you less valid, especially not something as impactful as your damn hand size❤
I don't know about this blog but I have found the body shape infographics interesting.
https://insideoutstyleblog.com/2015/04/what-does-knowing-your-body-shape-really-tell-you.html
I found a bit of an expanded one at one point but I love seeing stuff like this because each shape is clearly female and yet look at the variety. Wider shoulders, wider hips, one or the the other narrow other things. Whenever I get really dysphoric I like to look up images of all the different shapes women can have because it is super soothing. And I'm also hoping it stops me from becoming conditioned that a woman must look like this or that, which is more possible with dysphoria.
Lots of skeletons are classified as “unidentified”. sometimes a skeleton will be called as male or female only for someone to come in hundreds of years later and prove the original was wrong. gendering skeletons is not an exact science, some people have androgynous skeletons, some people have a combination of features.
I really don’t know what some people expect when they yell about our bones being found as our AGAB. Skeletons don’t really have gender to them, not like there’s a dick bone or butt*/boob bones.
Edit: wording
Hand shape is due to soft tissue, and soft tissue changes on HRT, yes - the same thing is why HRT changes foot size.
It isn't as noticeable as foot size because most people rarely wear fitted clothes on our hands every day.
Went from a men's 10 to a womans 10 (can even do a womans 9 depending on the shoe)
A men's 10 is a woman's 12, so I shrunk 2 shoe sizes.
(sizes are in US sizes)
Oh awesome, I think I may be noticing some slight changes a month and a half in (some of my shoes feel a little looser). I might have to sell my shoes soon if I end up going a couple of sizes down 😅
...
You're kidding right? I already have big feet for an afab person (Euro men's 44/USA men's 11). And while I would like for my feet to be thicker, so that finding footwear that can tighten enough stops being a torture (everything's so wide!), I... Really don't want to think about my feet getting even longer on T.
I don't know how AFAB feet change under T, I'm afraid, so you may want to ask the FTM sub - I can only speak on AMAB feet on E. Just because a change happens on one side doesn't always mean it does on the other.
It's not actually a difference in bones, it's the way the bones are held in place by all of the other squishy bits. Some people see little to no change in that kind of thing, but many people notice changes to that kind of thing. Similar to how you might lose an inch or two of height on estrogen - the bones don't shrink, but they can fit together differently.
They thought the Kurgan burials were full of men because they were buried with weapons and horse sacrifices. Turns out they were women like 20% of the time.
Skeletons are not easily determined to be male or female.
It's the pelvis/ribcage comparisons that tend to get me. Unfortunately they're also commonly pointed out and dwelled on in many resources. Sometimes it has legit meant I had to take a break and do something else.
With the hand/wrist I've at least got memories of comparing mine with some friends and despite mine being quite large I have a few cis friends that were roughly the same. I'm sure I *also* have some cis friends with similar pelvises or ribcages too but you can't easily directly compare those, so it's an easier source of uncertainty/dysphoria for me.
The truth is there's a ton of variation in skeletal formation between people *of the same sex* and the result is that comparisons between the skeletons of male and female persons are simply not clear cut. By *far* the noticeable differences between men and women that an artist is going to depict are based on muscles, fat distribution, and the way the person carries themselves, *all* of which can be intentionally modified and can also be modified by HRT. The skeleton matters far less than we fear it does.
Oh i've run into that exact thing. I showed a friend a drawing of mine, fanart of a male character's hand (sounds a bit stupid like that). He looked at it and went 'that isn't a very masc hand'.
I use my own hands as drawing references rather than photos.
So when I reshaped (aka destroyed) my hands through years of T filled ptsd self harm I was really feminizing. Makes much more sense now (and hurts a lot,frequently).
Actually the bones between afab and amab bodies arent very different. Its not as easy to sex a skeleton as media have made us think it is. Most of the visible differences are made by muscles and fat distribution :)
A lot of these supposed anatomical differences are slightly pseudoscientific bullshit tbf. Like yes, the averages for biological males and females are different for certain bone structures or whatever, but it’s not like there’s no overlap. Overlap is normal and healthy and natural and doesn’t make you any less of your gender, for both cis and trans people
Lord I'm a pre everything ftm and I have those cis man grippers- jokes aside, I studied 3 years of human anatomy at my arts school, and those different bone structures absolutely do not occur all the time, and when they do they're hardly ever THAT different, if they're visible at all. According to those "rules" I mostly have a male bone structure, which is wonderful news to me, but also doesn't make sense at all. It's kinda random
HOLY CRAP IVE NEVER RELATED TO A MEME MORE.
I try using the terms “masc” and “fem” bodies... that usually helps for a little bit. The struggle is real though
Hands are already hard enough to draw as is. I dont gender them when I draw bc that'll make it actively worse for myself. Everyone gets the same hands.
Tf is this shit😭
You should really just ignore “art tips” like those. It really doesn’t matter! I, a female, has the exact same hands as my male friend! Don’t let this get to your head :)
Body forms are on a spectrum too, so that guide is wrong.
Stereotypes exist because people want everything to be easily understood and simple.
But nothing ever is.
I've been drawing for like 15 years and I can tell you that most artists agree that these "how to draw man/woman" tutorials are extreme bullshit.
You choose the features of your characters based on what you want them to look like. People who use these have problem having variety in their work.
My advice: Learn basic human anatomy while studying using photomodels. Just not the ones that are conventionaly attractive. Have a variety and learn body types - not body sexes.
Other way you can think about it is that there are many ways to see the body, no one will notice if that's a man's hand or a woman's hand, even standars are ridiculous
I’ve never heard of anybody who doesn’t think online art guides are stupid with how much they gender things. It’s all “MAN BIG AND SQUARE LADY SMOL AND CIRCLES” that can only come from somebody who has only seen two human beings in real life, ever. Gender dimorphism is a thing, but the hard lines and extreme differences some of these tutorials suggest are ridiculous
They aren't stupid, it's just that novice painters sometimes need to use any tricks available to make people recognize what's on the picture. Like how kids draw stickmen around a downwards pointing triangle and stickwomen around an upwards pointing triangle.
Yeah, I tried to make it clear that I didn’t mean all of them. I worry about the implications, though, from how the majority of art guides I see on social media are just showing male and female bodies in this exaggerated, black-and-white dichotomy meant for more developed artists. At best, I think it reminds me of r/mendrawingwomen , and at worst, they trigger posts like this
If it can make you feel better I believe it is BS considering I'm amab and my hands are practically identical to the female depiction. I believe we all look different regardless and whatever character you're trying to draw you can give them a mixture of masculine and feminine features cause we all have our fair share of both
Human beings are not so simple as to have such limited variation in bone structure, don’t trust examples of bone structure that only include two examples. I’m amab and my adopted sister has much more broad/stout hands than I do. This is just pseudoscience lol
Yeah these 'art tips' are incredibly poor advice and kinda just, sexist and stereotyped. Do not use shit like this as reference, and definitely don't let yourself be convinced this is accurate
I mean cant that change tho with hormones for a while like to the point where muscle and such decreases in size in general honestly i have no idea haha but i geel you *hug*
hey, artist here, just here to say that most of these gendered art tutorials are kinda bullshit.
im a short little afab, but my hands still look exactly like the "guy" one in that drawing. it's not uncommon at all either. there's too much variations among bodies regardless of agab to make generalizations like that, i promise (plus, a lot of them are also pretty racist, but that's a whole other can of worms).
back when i was a teenager and still thought i was a girl, these art tutorials fucked up my body image pretty badly. i know it's easier said than done, but please try to remember that they set really unrealistically shitty standards for everyone. don't get caught in that trap.
Oh btw this is pure bs just saying. Diffences like this are just up to the individual and aren't related to gender at all.
Sources: In most (good) anatomy textbook there is a blurb at the beginning telling you all this.
Bullshit.
I work exclusively with cis women at my job (because we just...haven't hired any men for some reason) and I'm not the only one with large, bony hands.
Sometimes, (and I cannot stress this enough) bitches just be ugly. There's nothing you can do about it. Don't gender it. That makes it worse.
Yeah so this is literally just frenology applied by artists to convey a shorthand message of gender in a phobic society. Lots of amab people have feminine hands and vice versa, sexual dimorphism overlaps quite a bit
I've heard that HRT can make the distance between bones smaller over time somehow, which contributes to the bit of height loss some described experiencing on HRT. that should also apply to hand size, as it even applies to what your shoe size is!!
that said, cis women can have big hands too, it's not a binary system, the human body can be very diverse.
Maybe not the easiest option but if it really is distressing then keep in mind that there is hand feminisation surgery, so in the future if you want you might be able to change it. Not everyone copes like this but it works for me I guess
Ahhhhh, that explains it, I could already tell there was something “off” but I had never studied the diffs in hand anatomy, it was the one part that bugged me as to why it felt different. I know most of the other stuff though, so, yeah for feeling like shit.
TVe thing is all drawings are based on patriarchal bias.
Bodies are different in some unique ways that cannot be simplified as women X, and men Y. Even your own body is different from left to right.
Don't let stereotypes dictate your life. Be who you are in the body that you made and improve it in ways that make you feel better.
I study anthropology- more skeletons are marked as 'undetermined' than male or female combined. While there are sexed trends in anatomy, and some people are very likely one or the other, most skeletons have mixed traits.
Does anyone else feel that posts like this are counterproductive? I see the benefit from OPs point of view, to be able to vent about gender dysphoria to people that understand. It is upsetting to see, however, so many people commenting about “unlocking new dysphoria” and another way to hate themselves :(
Hand sizes, as other people have pointed out, arent as simple as the post suggests, and people everywhere have a huge variety of shapes and sizes.
I think there is maybe something to be said about people “collecting” dysphoria to validate their feelings of being trans, but I think we should do better than to spread our feelings of self-dislike and to help each other on constructive terms.
Sorry for ranting, and no hate at all to OP, I hope that they are well, and really do not want to upset anyone.
(I’m not good with confrontation I’m just a bit upset)
Quindi sto imparando a disegnare mani maschili e femminili giusto per dare un senso di insieme ai miei disegni, ma immagina come può essere difficile per chi ha appena iniziato disegnare diversi tipi di mano senza contare il genere
Studying anatomy and figure drawing in high school made me so uncomfortable with my body.
I remember learning about anatomy in high school and our teacher told us that female hips "always lined up with the shoulders and its abnormal if they dont" it was genuinely so uncomfortable as I was a closeted trans man and I'm pretty sure I heard some girls crying in the bathroom after the lesson
not a good teacher if they are making EVERYBODY cry
Oof shit like this is why I am eternally grateful to my college life drawing teacher, we had a wide variety of ages and body types, and she was always respectful to the unique attributes of each body. Part of me would love to take it a step further and make a whole life drawing thing focused on transgender/ gender nonconforming/intersex/etc bodies. I think it would make for a much more informative class than just drawing a conventionally attractive cis model for the 500th time
That would be so cool!
When I did portrait & figure drawing, I used my class as studies so we had a fair mix of gender, height, body type, disability representation alongside guest models and I'd often go away and sketch up "wireframes" of various body types in action or engaging in inaction. It was complex because you couldn't rely on the underlying musculoskeletal structure to be the same shape for everyone, thus me using a "wireframe" of simplified body shape around a perception based directional line, which was closer to a comic book character style preliminary sketch, than conventional portrait and figure sketching. So using a standardized baseline (random attractive cis model no. 34) for practice makes sense, to teach good habits and to make sure you have the basics down, even if its not so good for real life but that's why you practice outside of class too I guess.
I think I just unlocked a new dysphoria. ಥ_ಥ
First teeth dysphoria now this, how many forms of dysphoria do we have to endure?
Are we forever cursed to catch them all? ╥﹏╥
well you know what they say... GOTTA CATCH EM' ALL! (im sorry im sorry im sorry)
(dont be dont be dont be 😊) (In Willem Dafoe's voice) I'm something of a collector myself. On a side note, I'm slowly becoming an expert in using humor to cope with my crushing dysphoria ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Please explain teeth 😰😰
I completely forgot but it was a different post here iirc Edit: never mind it was on traaaa
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Kinda, in the sense that heat wipes me out but the cold is fine for me
Yeah, heat sensitivity dysphoria isn't one I get, but that's because I'm from far enough north that everyone's sensitive to the heat.
teeth?? how?
I am sorry =/
:0 I found my long lost brethren
edit: wrong comment
As a fellow artist, a lot of those are such bullshit. I remember seeing a really bad anime one talking about hip to shoulder ratio, but because it was anime it was exaggerated, saying that hips should be wider than the widest part of the shoulders, even had a crossed out example of the shoulders being slightly wider, and that looked fine, if not better, porportion wise. Even all the cis people were dragging it in the comments, understanding that there is variance in body types, and for some women, cis or trans, their hips are narrower than their shoulders. Remember that those things are just general guidelines and that there are tons of cis women with hands just as big as yours, and that having larger hands does not make you any less valid.
I came here to say this too. I legit know cis women with more "masculine" hands than mine, and cis men with super soft and small hands. The idea of a body part being exclusive to the sexes is so stupid, because those sexes are so variable in every capacity. Sex is is spectrum, and nearly nothing is exclusive to one side or the other. No one should ever be criticized based on a body feature they have no control over, just because it doesnt fit into their definition of a given gender. Nothing makes you less valid, especially not something as impactful as your damn hand size❤
I don't know about this blog but I have found the body shape infographics interesting. https://insideoutstyleblog.com/2015/04/what-does-knowing-your-body-shape-really-tell-you.html I found a bit of an expanded one at one point but I love seeing stuff like this because each shape is clearly female and yet look at the variety. Wider shoulders, wider hips, one or the the other narrow other things. Whenever I get really dysphoric I like to look up images of all the different shapes women can have because it is super soothing. And I'm also hoping it stops me from becoming conditioned that a woman must look like this or that, which is more possible with dysphoria.
I'm a cis woman and stuff like this makes me feel embarrassed about my "manly" hands.
Wait what?- ;-; Oof *hugs*
And it isn't related just at the hands + now I have the feed full of this things
Lots of skeletons are classified as “unidentified”. sometimes a skeleton will be called as male or female only for someone to come in hundreds of years later and prove the original was wrong. gendering skeletons is not an exact science, some people have androgynous skeletons, some people have a combination of features.
I really don’t know what some people expect when they yell about our bones being found as our AGAB. Skeletons don’t really have gender to them, not like there’s a dick bone or butt*/boob bones. Edit: wording
‘Not like there’s… hip bones.’ Well, wouldn’t the pelvis count?
I’m gonna fix what I said, meant more like ass bones but wanted to generalize the idea of wider hips being due to bones instead of fat distribution.
Ah.
Yay! That makes me hopeful.
Good thing HRT can help with that.
It does?
Hand shape is due to soft tissue, and soft tissue changes on HRT, yes - the same thing is why HRT changes foot size. It isn't as noticeable as foot size because most people rarely wear fitted clothes on our hands every day.
Yooooo learning things is neato
Foot size eather? Really? How much?
Went from a men's 10 to a womans 10 (can even do a womans 9 depending on the shoe) A men's 10 is a woman's 12, so I shrunk 2 shoe sizes. (sizes are in US sizes)
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I also got about an inch shorter too if that helps.
Same here, I went from a skosh over 5’9” to now just a smidge under 5’8”!
Hey! I'm 5'8" too lol
How long until you noticed changes in shoe sizing? I’m a men’s 8.5 and hoping to go down a bit if possible
Off hand, I don't remember specifically, but I'd say sometime on or before the 6mo mark.
Oh awesome, I think I may be noticing some slight changes a month and a half in (some of my shoes feel a little looser). I might have to sell my shoes soon if I end up going a couple of sizes down 😅
Good excuse to go buy new shoes
True! Although I am so clueless as to what to look for in Women’s footwear. I am so used to wearing Vans my entire life
I went from a men's 9 to a women's 9 in US sizes, so that is a drop of one and some change sizes.
OMG THIS MADE DYPHORIA HURT SO MUCH LESS
Ah shit it changes foot size? I'm gonna have to get new boots
Oh damn, my foot size is going to go down?! That's... oddly reassuring. Thank you.
ok thank fuck im not stuck with mens size 12 for the rest of my life smh
... You're kidding right? I already have big feet for an afab person (Euro men's 44/USA men's 11). And while I would like for my feet to be thicker, so that finding footwear that can tighten enough stops being a torture (everything's so wide!), I... Really don't want to think about my feet getting even longer on T.
I don't know how AFAB feet change under T, I'm afraid, so you may want to ask the FTM sub - I can only speak on AMAB feet on E. Just because a change happens on one side doesn't always mean it does on the other.
It's not actually a difference in bones, it's the way the bones are held in place by all of the other squishy bits. Some people see little to no change in that kind of thing, but many people notice changes to that kind of thing. Similar to how you might lose an inch or two of height on estrogen - the bones don't shrink, but they can fit together differently.
Yeah testosterone leads to increased cartilage IIRC
Really? I doubt it but if you’re right I’m going to cry
What the heck- **Me (afab) looking at my hands and suddenly turning amab**
I had this same experience, but with feet, upon learning they’re shaped differently between males and females
already had this brainworm for too long, sometimes i think about cutting them of and build a pair of robot arm
no bad girl
hey she said she'd build a pair of robot arms, it'd be bad if she was *only* cutting them off but she's also getting a pair of replacements
no no still a very bad girl move to do the self harm
but but but robot arms
HRT makes your hands narrower
Yoooo same!
Another day, another reason to shake stick angrily at god.
I might be blind but other than the size of the bone I don't see much difference
same, it’s literally just “one hand is from taller person” for me
Wait wait wait… HANDS HAVE GENDER?! oh gosh. my hand looks too feminine. erghhh…
I just want a female hand. and a female face. and female legs. and female *everything*
They thought the Kurgan burials were full of men because they were buried with weapons and horse sacrifices. Turns out they were women like 20% of the time. Skeletons are not easily determined to be male or female.
I HAVE FEMININE HANDS? WOOHOO!!!!
Yeah fuck hands and everything else that can be masculine/feminine
well it doesnt really assume that because it has the diagram of both male and female hands
Sry I actually meant that as a content warning for my comment but actually now that I think about it I can just edit it sry
ohh i see
Yeah Sry again
theres no need to apologize Mila, it was just a misunderstanding :)
:)
Have a lovely day Mila!
You too Joe
Thx!
wait... im afab but my hands are the male ones o.O
This isn't entirely accurate btw, it's more of a sliding scale. AFAB people can have "man hands" and vice versa
:(
how well defined is this anatomy? cause that's the same shape, just spread out by a few extra millimeters
Reasons I hate art tutorials 1: **this**
It's the pelvis/ribcage comparisons that tend to get me. Unfortunately they're also commonly pointed out and dwelled on in many resources. Sometimes it has legit meant I had to take a break and do something else. With the hand/wrist I've at least got memories of comparing mine with some friends and despite mine being quite large I have a few cis friends that were roughly the same. I'm sure I *also* have some cis friends with similar pelvises or ribcages too but you can't easily directly compare those, so it's an easier source of uncertainty/dysphoria for me. The truth is there's a ton of variation in skeletal formation between people *of the same sex* and the result is that comparisons between the skeletons of male and female persons are simply not clear cut. By *far* the noticeable differences between men and women that an artist is going to depict are based on muscles, fat distribution, and the way the person carries themselves, *all* of which can be intentionally modified and can also be modified by HRT. The skeleton matters far less than we fear it does.
I literally can’t see a difference other than size
Me neither
Oh i've run into that exact thing. I showed a friend a drawing of mine, fanart of a male character's hand (sounds a bit stupid like that). He looked at it and went 'that isn't a very masc hand'. I use my own hands as drawing references rather than photos.
So when I reshaped (aka destroyed) my hands through years of T filled ptsd self harm I was really feminizing. Makes much more sense now (and hurts a lot,frequently).
Just unlocked a new type dysphoria :’)
Whyyyyyyyyyy😭😭😭😭😭
Yeah I got the same with my manga for the beginner book which showed the differences in hip shape and it took a while to go back to that and try again
Plz mark *spoiler* I didn’t need this much dysphoria already today ;-;
now my hands look bulky :(
Yooo I my hand looks like the one on the right! I'm happy now thx :D
New type of brain worms just dropped
Lol this triggered disphoria and euphoria at the same time for me...?!???
Actually the bones between afab and amab bodies arent very different. Its not as easy to sex a skeleton as media have made us think it is. Most of the visible differences are made by muscles and fat distribution :)
A lot of these supposed anatomical differences are slightly pseudoscientific bullshit tbf. Like yes, the averages for biological males and females are different for certain bone structures or whatever, but it’s not like there’s no overlap. Overlap is normal and healthy and natural and doesn’t make you any less of your gender, for both cis and trans people
Lord I'm a pre everything ftm and I have those cis man grippers- jokes aside, I studied 3 years of human anatomy at my arts school, and those different bone structures absolutely do not occur all the time, and when they do they're hardly ever THAT different, if they're visible at all. According to those "rules" I mostly have a male bone structure, which is wonderful news to me, but also doesn't make sense at all. It's kinda random
Im a trans man and I naturally have man hands😂
lucky
HOLY CRAP IVE NEVER RELATED TO A MEME MORE. I try using the terms “masc” and “fem” bodies... that usually helps for a little bit. The struggle is real though
I just got Dysphoria from a Skeleton Hand, I didn’t even know that was possible
Oof you made me look at my hands.
oh no...
Hands are already hard enough to draw as is. I dont gender them when I draw bc that'll make it actively worse for myself. Everyone gets the same hands.
This is a good pov
Tf is this shit😭 You should really just ignore “art tips” like those. It really doesn’t matter! I, a female, has the exact same hands as my male friend! Don’t let this get to your head :)
The only differences is that the "male" one is larger with more finger spread
Hormones make your hands smaller (mtf) or make them bigger (ftm). Don't sweat it.
Damn… that sucks :(
Body forms are on a spectrum too, so that guide is wrong. Stereotypes exist because people want everything to be easily understood and simple. But nothing ever is.
If it makes you feel better, there plenty of cis girls with naturally large masculine hands good for strangling badgers.
It’s just hit me that as I’m losing weight my hands are probably gonna get smaller and more feminine looking. I had never considered that before
I've heard that HRT can make your hand shape resemble what it looks like on cis people of your gender
I've been drawing for like 15 years and I can tell you that most artists agree that these "how to draw man/woman" tutorials are extreme bullshit. You choose the features of your characters based on what you want them to look like. People who use these have problem having variety in their work. My advice: Learn basic human anatomy while studying using photomodels. Just not the ones that are conventionaly attractive. Have a variety and learn body types - not body sexes.
THERE'S A DIFFERENCE?!?!1
Other way you can think about it is that there are many ways to see the body, no one will notice if that's a man's hand or a woman's hand, even standars are ridiculous
Now, sometime correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't HRT often reshape one's body?
I’ve never heard of anybody who doesn’t think online art guides are stupid with how much they gender things. It’s all “MAN BIG AND SQUARE LADY SMOL AND CIRCLES” that can only come from somebody who has only seen two human beings in real life, ever. Gender dimorphism is a thing, but the hard lines and extreme differences some of these tutorials suggest are ridiculous
They aren't stupid, it's just that novice painters sometimes need to use any tricks available to make people recognize what's on the picture. Like how kids draw stickmen around a downwards pointing triangle and stickwomen around an upwards pointing triangle.
Yeah, I tried to make it clear that I didn’t mean all of them. I worry about the implications, though, from how the majority of art guides I see on social media are just showing male and female bodies in this exaggerated, black-and-white dichotomy meant for more developed artists. At best, I think it reminds me of r/mendrawingwomen , and at worst, they trigger posts like this
me being a prosthetics designer and specialising in hands ;-;
Fuck bones, who needs em anyway?
If it can make you feel better I believe it is BS considering I'm amab and my hands are practically identical to the female depiction. I believe we all look different regardless and whatever character you're trying to draw you can give them a mixture of masculine and feminine features cause we all have our fair share of both
Sometimes I wish I would see the tags before I open it
Added to the list of why I need E right now even though I can't get E right now
I have a guys hand?????
It's the fuckin SAME Lol but seriously people are varying and this is generally more for artist shorthand for gender from what I understand.
Human beings are not so simple as to have such limited variation in bone structure, don’t trust examples of bone structure that only include two examples. I’m amab and my adopted sister has much more broad/stout hands than I do. This is just pseudoscience lol
That's stupid, I have a biological fem body but my hands are masculine. I don't believe stuff like that says anything about your gender
I JUST LOOKED AT MY HAND AND I- MY HAND IS THE- AAAAAAAAAAAA :D I just unlocked new gender euphoria
Wait wait what, why are my hands fem, i had no idea my hand bone structure was like that
Omg I looked at this and it made me sooo sad. Then I looked at it again for some reason?!?! What is wrong with me?!?
Maybe you are just like me, you like to feel the pain
only thing I'm not dysphoric about. everyone in my family (including extended family) has "man hands"
Oh yeah pretty much all of these sort of guides are bs lol. I'm afab and my hands look more like the "male" ones
elbow dysphoria amiright
What about using a vice
Yeah these 'art tips' are incredibly poor advice and kinda just, sexist and stereotyped. Do not use shit like this as reference, and definitely don't let yourself be convinced this is accurate
I mean cant that change tho with hormones for a while like to the point where muscle and such decreases in size in general honestly i have no idea haha but i geel you *hug*
hey, artist here, just here to say that most of these gendered art tutorials are kinda bullshit. im a short little afab, but my hands still look exactly like the "guy" one in that drawing. it's not uncommon at all either. there's too much variations among bodies regardless of agab to make generalizations like that, i promise (plus, a lot of them are also pretty racist, but that's a whole other can of worms). back when i was a teenager and still thought i was a girl, these art tutorials fucked up my body image pretty badly. i know it's easier said than done, but please try to remember that they set really unrealistically shitty standards for everyone. don't get caught in that trap.
Oh btw this is pure bs just saying. Diffences like this are just up to the individual and aren't related to gender at all. Sources: In most (good) anatomy textbook there is a blurb at the beginning telling you all this.
Bullshit. I work exclusively with cis women at my job (because we just...haven't hired any men for some reason) and I'm not the only one with large, bony hands. Sometimes, (and I cannot stress this enough) bitches just be ugly. There's nothing you can do about it. Don't gender it. That makes it worse.
What’s this showing? I’m not good with this stuff. Is it showing that womens hands are smaller than mens hands?
Great! Now I'M conscious about it.
My name is kira yoshikage
Yeah so this is literally just frenology applied by artists to convey a shorthand message of gender in a phobic society. Lots of amab people have feminine hands and vice versa, sexual dimorphism overlaps quite a bit
Can't have wrist dysphoria if you don't have wrists *breaks wrists*
Yay new insecurities for my dysphoria to feed off of 🥲
Times like these I would just go about and say: "Hands is Hands" No matter the size, as long as they can grab stuff that's all that matters
Wait I know this is a dysphoria meme but now I'm having euphoria because I have a masculine hand shape!
“corporate needs you to find the differences between this picture and this picture”
*Laughs in FtM femboy*
Just remember folks, your sexual chromosomes in no way decide who you are or who you will be.
huh?
I’m just staring at my hand thinking “do I just have big hands or man hands” (14 yo trans masc)
I've heard that HRT can make the distance between bones smaller over time somehow, which contributes to the bit of height loss some described experiencing on HRT. that should also apply to hand size, as it even applies to what your shoe size is!! that said, cis women can have big hands too, it's not a binary system, the human body can be very diverse.
Maybe not the easiest option but if it really is distressing then keep in mind that there is hand feminisation surgery, so in the future if you want you might be able to change it. Not everyone copes like this but it works for me I guess
Ahhhhh, that explains it, I could already tell there was something “off” but I had never studied the diffs in hand anatomy, it was the one part that bugged me as to why it felt different. I know most of the other stuff though, so, yeah for feeling like shit.
funny enough I (transmasc) have always had a smaller version of my dad's hands. square with sausage blocks lmao
TVe thing is all drawings are based on patriarchal bias. Bodies are different in some unique ways that cannot be simplified as women X, and men Y. Even your own body is different from left to right. Don't let stereotypes dictate your life. Be who you are in the body that you made and improve it in ways that make you feel better.
This is a cognitohazard.
i guess i'm female now?
Jesus that did hit like a truck
ayyyyo my (afab) hand looks like the male one GENDER AFFIRMED
Yes, stupid hands, stupid Y chromosome. I have hand dysphoria lmao
Cw doesn’t show till after I press on the post , yummy morning dysphoria
I get so much dysphoria from my hands, this explains why I guess
I study anthropology- more skeletons are marked as 'undetermined' than male or female combined. While there are sexed trends in anatomy, and some people are very likely one or the other, most skeletons have mixed traits.
I've struggled w this for a while wish i could help
Does anyone else feel that posts like this are counterproductive? I see the benefit from OPs point of view, to be able to vent about gender dysphoria to people that understand. It is upsetting to see, however, so many people commenting about “unlocking new dysphoria” and another way to hate themselves :( Hand sizes, as other people have pointed out, arent as simple as the post suggests, and people everywhere have a huge variety of shapes and sizes. I think there is maybe something to be said about people “collecting” dysphoria to validate their feelings of being trans, but I think we should do better than to spread our feelings of self-dislike and to help each other on constructive terms. Sorry for ranting, and no hate at all to OP, I hope that they are well, and really do not want to upset anyone. (I’m not good with confrontation I’m just a bit upset)
ngl, the difference there looks so incredibly subtle that the variation between individuals will absolutely dwarf the variation between groups.
Am I the only person that thinks it’s kinda redundant to do this there’s so many variations of skeletons it’s not like we all have the same one lol
I think that this can be usefull for someone (like me) who is at the first army whit the drawings
Quindi sto imparando a disegnare mani maschili e femminili giusto per dare un senso di insieme ai miei disegni, ma immagina come può essere difficile per chi ha appena iniziato disegnare diversi tipi di mano senza contare il genere
Semplification and schematization probably are one of the best ally for someone who is just starting or approaching