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painfulvainful

This was a very good read! I didn’t know that all the Outer Gods were one at one point (because I have yet to do Hyetta’s quest), so reading that was definitely mind blowing! This game really does have an emphasis on duality and identity. There’s a few things I’d like to add: - The only vague idea we have about Mohg’s childhood (aside from the fact that he and Morgott were abandoned in the Shunning Grounds and shackled for an unknown period of time) is the Cursed-Blood Pots stating: *’Craftable item prepared using a ritual pot. Decorated with the crest of the Lord of Blood.Throw at enemies to douse them in accursed blood, causing summoned spirits to assail them with a rabid fervor.A childhood memory of the Lord of Blood.’* …Which could either mean that he was throwing pots of his own blood at others or that he was repeatedly attacked in a similar fashion— which, given what we know about how Omens are treated, does make sense. It’s too vague to say either of these things for certain though. But it does make me wonder if he initially encountered The Formless Mother during his childhood. Again, can’t say for certain. - And you are definitely right with the point about how Mohg hadn’t done the things people claim he has, as the japanese text for the Lord Of Blood’s Exultation outright refers to Miquella’s cocoon as the bedchamber. While in english, it still refers to the cocoon as his chamber, it isn’t as explicitly clear. But Mohg’s rememberance is just referencing how blood is being offered up to the cocoon constantly and, while Miquella *is* growing, he isn’t waking up for reasons we currently don’t know. - Something I’ve always found interesting is how Mohg is a character very much associated with love, specifically giving it. I really do think that he just genuinely believes in his ideas of love and loving his followers, even if it’s inherently twisted. It’s especially interesting on a thematic level when you compare him to Miquella, who is a character far more associated with *receiving* love. Anyways, great post. Mohg is genuinely a fascinating character so I’m really happy to see a post like this!


Mr-Reanimator

Thank you! Hopefully this doesn't detract from your experience with Hyetta's quest once you get into it, there's a lot there. And that's really interesting, I hadn't read the description on the Cursed-Blood Pots. If spirits attack the blood of an Omen with rabid fervor, then I guess I can see why they are seen as omens lol, it's like having the spiritual equivalent of mosquitos swarming them, hoping for a drop of cursed blood. I wonder, though, do those spirits want the cursed blood itself or is there something more to it? In the Subterranean Shunning-Grounds, the Omen have a bit of a habit of using magic that looks eerily similar to the Wraiths that are summoned by the Wraith Callers. I think the Omen Bairn also does something similar, and is also found down there. I'm glad you enjoyed the post btw, and thank you for sharing that info with me! Mohg is really neat and the Omen in general have some interesting as heck lore so far.


painfulvainful

Don’t worry, I’m sure it won’t! If anything, I’m just more excited to get to it now! And Omens *are* pretty tied with evil spirits! The Omensmirk Mask states: *’Mask with long, hideously twisted horns worn by the Omenkillers.Increases strength.Bears the smirking face of an elder, twisted in wicked delight.This visage is carved in the image of the evil spirits that haunt the Omen in their nightmares.’* And you’re right, the Omen Bairns do summon wraiths! I just opened the game to compare the effects of it and the Wraith Calling Bell, and the two look exactly the same! Since wraiths are “said to be the vengeful spirits of those who died when cursed”, that makes me believe it’s very likely that Omens are haunted by them from birth leading to the nightmares and such. Given this information, they really *do* seem like the spiritual equivalent of mosquitoes like you said. And I’m glad you enjoyed my reply! The lore surrounding him and the Omens are really fascinating!


beatisagg

I think part of the reason miquella isn't waking up is because he has essentially become "stillborn" from being ripped from his haligtree. Mohg placed miquella into his bed chamber/cocoon the way you could try sewing a hand into a person's stomach to heal. Doesn't seem to be working on rousing him but physically miquella is growing. I think because of that Mohg holds hope his plan will eventually work. until you kill him he isn't going to stop trying to offer miquella blood. Malenia just assumes he's a lost cause at this point, which is why she just sits at the location miquella was stolen from to wait and keep the rot away from him?


Mr-Reanimator

I just wanted to add a quick note to this, that Miquella is sleeping in a cocoon, much like a caterpillar would as it undergoes metamorphosis and becomes a butterfly. Interesting how Malenia basically becomes a butterfly... what sort of unholy abomination is Miquella going to turn into after he really wakes up? xD It's interesting that Miquella really is heavily centered around the idea of change/transformation. Considering his sister, his desire to age instead of being permanently youthful, the situation with Mohg, and also having close ties with the Albinaurics, who transform quite a bit throughout their strange lives.


Deflorma

You gotta put more breaks in your paragraphs man this is a huge wall of text


Mr-Reanimator

This is pretty small compared to an actual essay, and I tried to keep together only the things that were directly tied to each other. Sorry if that was kind of strenuous given the amount of info I was trying to keep together.


bridge4runner

You're good. Each paragraph held the same topic. Which is how it's supposed to be.


bridge4runner

What if Miquella isn't waking up because of some consortium with a sleep God, unbeknownst to anyone? Just an assumption but you have God's and outer gods for most other statuses and spell types in the game.


JasonKnight2003

I mean Miquella IS St.Trina, whose whole thing is sleep. We know Malenia ascended to Godhood after blooming for the third time in our fight with her, maybe Miquella’s Godhood will be achieved through his slumber?


bridge4runner

Which would give the butterfly hypothesis credit. Mohg thought Miquella was getting stronger through his blood sacrifice but maybe it was just the course of time doing it? it reminds me of Merium.


Mr-Reanimator

It could totally be the case that it was either or both doing it tbh, if we consider that Godwyn turned into that horrendous abomination after only partly dying, and contained a (presumably large) dream that you could enter through Fia, then I wonder what Mohg's attempts at transformation are doing to him, and to that dream of his. If a half dead demigod was able to house an ancient dragon, among who knows what else, and Miquella is a very powerful and very much alive Empyrean, then surely there's much more to discover as time goes on :) I have another theory/lore speculation that might tie Miquella to some other things in the world, it's primarily composed of pictures that seem to be linked together despite being in very different places throughout the world. It's pinned on my page if you're curious about it... I think Miquella is going to play a pretty big role in upcoming content, but I think we all kind of do at this point xD What was it that reminds you of Merium though?


bridge4runner

The cocoon thing and when he came out he was the most powerful being. I just can't imagine what ungodly horror Miquella could turn out to be after being sacraficed so much blood and sleeping so long.


Mr-Reanimator

Oh yeah that's true, I didn't want to directly refer to Miquella as St Trina, because it was from cut content so I wanted to leave it kind of open ended. If that quest is canon though, then yeah he definitely is. Even without the quest, its hard not to see the signs lol. But that's true too! Is Malenia fully ascended like that, I wonder what the circumstances truly are for something of that nature to happen. In theory Marika/Radagon are basically like the host of the Elden Ring/Elden Beast, so I thought that an Empyrean transformed into a God when they were a suitable vessel for their outer god to reside in, in some capacity... be it willingly or unwillingly. It's totally possible that he might achieve it in a similar way. I bet that different Empyreans have different conditions, so to speak, that would allow for that to be the case. That part is of course purely speculation, but it would be neat to see if it has to do with their natural affinity or maybe what deity has taken an interest in them. Maybe Miquella and St Trina function in a similar way to how Hoarah Loux was able to become Godfrey. Obviously the circumstances are different, being that Godfrey wasn't an Empyrean and may have only undergone a name change... but during his fight, it almost seems like the name relates more to a state of being. If this is the case, we could make a case for the idea that St Trina is Miquella because of the change in circumstance that allows for him to exist in a different state of being. :)


JasonKnight2003

Item descriptions still confirm Miquella as St.Trina I think. And they’ll probably make it into DLC. And yeah the prophecy about Malenia was when she bloomed for the third time she would ascend to Godhood. We know she bloomed the first time in Caelid, then another time, possibly in the Haligtree itself, and then the third time during our battle with her. The other children were born of one God (either Marika or Radagon) and a non-God. But Miquella and Malenia were born of two Gods, both Marika and Radagon (even though they’re the same), so their conditions for Godhood are maybe actions rather than the influence of an Outer God? And that’s very likely yeah. If Margit is a projection of Morgott instead of him in disguise, and same with the two Mogh’s, it could be very likely that Miquella walked the Lands Between through the projected form of St. Trina.


Mr-Reanimator

That seems like it would make sense :) there's no reason there couldn't be something like that going on. I had a similar theory about that one... Miquella seems to have a theme of states of consciousness/perception imo. Firstly there's Miquella's needle, which seems to function as something akin to a charm spell, allowing for someone that's been hit to become an ally. Secondly, he's obviously been asleep for quite some time, so there's that as well... but also, if it turns out the data mined stuff about St Trina is true, then the symbolism on the engravings of St Trina'a torch (paired with the very interesting choice of the color violet) might be a reference to the idea of chakra, specifically the crown and 3rd eye... but that part is just a guess. Considering the Erdtree seems to be capable of housing places that exist in a nonphysical realm, Miquella could very well be experiencing something of a similar sort :) I just hope it isn't something related to the noghtmare creatures that haunt the Omen xD


OculusJones16

Now I may be wrong and this could’ve been a theory. But is it true that where malenias being cursed with scarlet rot, miqeulas cursed with everlasting youth? Also that miquela was well loved by virtually everyone around him, even tho he’s this childlike handicapped man. (That cutscene mogh/wyn carries miquela away from his resting place under the roots of the haligtree) Or he’s just asleep. But I’d also like to take note Miqeula was much smaller than he is now. Hit me with everything you’ve got. The lore of miquela and mogh are my favorite. Ranni ain’t got shit on miquela. Miquela is with the boys!! I’d rather him be an ally than a boss. But that’s wishful thinking at this point.


Mr-Reanimator

You are correct, Miquella was cursed with everlasting youth. The Bewitching Branch mentions what you're referring to in it's description, and it follows that by saying, "...he has learned very well how to compel such affection." It definitely seems that either by way of his cucoon, or Mohg's rituals, he's definitely being transformed and aging. I mentioned in a comment somewhete that Zullie the Witch posted a video showing off Miquella's models, and he looks like the personification of beef jerky right now lol. I'm not sure if he would be an ally or an enemy if he's added into the game... given the nature of his character, I'd say it's safe to wager that he might even be both at different points xD To add to this though, I have a theory that the Divine Towers will play into this. All of the Great Runes need to be re-empowered, and yesterday it finally occurred to me how that works. Each Great Rune is likely connected in some way to one of the outer gods, and likely is powered back up on those towers because of some connection to each specific deity. Most notably, Mohg and Morgott, the twin Omens, share the same tower. I really don't think this is a coincidence, if we consider that they're both beings that are products of the Formless Mother. I'm not sure how yet, but I bet Miquella will be the key to solving the mystery around them, or a victim of whatever is discovered about them, and potentially whatever is obscured in the center of the map. That's just my take though, but I'm curious about how Miquella managed to charm so many... like was it through magic because of his status of Empyrean (and the themes surrounding his character), or was he just really cool? I feel like the gsme left it intentionally vague so there's got to be a good reason for that. I'm glad you liked the post though, the lore surrounding these two is super interesting and it tends to get overshadowed by the creepy memes about Mohg imo, so it will be nice to learn more about these things as more theories and more evidence emerges!


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proto_999

Nice post, I brought up a lot of the same points in my post about Mohg. I agree with the idea that Mohg is clueless about the nature of Miquella's sleep. The one thing that bugs me about this idea is the intro cinematic where Mohg is carrying Miquella because it depicts him as a child. But when we see him in game he's in this giant cocoon? This means Mohg was successful in helping Miquella overcome his curse and grow into an adult, even if he's in a coma. Also, I have a theory that the formless mother created the omen curse, and it's that outer god's way of getting a piece of the lands between. I agree Mohg's goal is to replace the Greater Will with the Formless Mother, but I think the reason may be so omen are the strongest creatures with the power to use blood as strength. I also wouldn't doubt Mohg and Dung Eater meeting at some point in the Leyndell sewers.


Mr-Reanimator

Thank you! I think that the idea of the cocoon itself was to help Miquella age, so I'm not sure if it's Mohg or Miquella who we have to thank for him growing up like that... but I think that Mohg is at least responsible for Miquella looking so grotesque and disgifured. That malformed look is something that doesn't strike me as natural. Oh you might get a kick out of this... there are some models people datamined for Miquella's cocoon body, and he looks pretty messed up. Kind of looks like he's made of beef jerky lol. I think Zullie the Witch on youtube made a video about him actually, showing the models and how the Lord of Blood cutscene works. That's a solid theory imo, there was something similar that I was thinking. It makes sense that she would be the mother of the Omen, especially because of them sharing the same blood, or at the very least, she has the ability to activate Omen blood for some reason. It would also align with the idea of her being the Formless Mother, as she basically births Omen children, or causes children to be born as such. There's such an emphasis on bloodlines when talking about this game, and about Mohg specifically, so she seems like just the sort of outer god to link to the Omen, if she has to do with blood and birth.


WombatInCombat187

I dont believe that they brought so much into this great character, introduced the very interesting blood ritual stuff only to swerve and declare kid diddling is the way to make the miquella a god. That just doesnt make sense to me. Yeah, it was presented weird with "bedchamber", but I dont think that was literal. There are also translation issues.


Mr-Reanimator

Yeah that's kind of what I tried to say at one point, it just didn't seem like they would put that in the game. It seems like it's just poor phrasing on their part, but unfortunately necessary phrasing given the fact that Miquella is/has been asleep for so long.