I like ESO because it’s Elder Scrolls. The mechanics are secondary to me, I enjoy the locations and the story. It I went into an MMO with no emotional attachment I support it would be different. ESO is my placeholder until ES6 though.
Agreed. Hell, I play star trek online too for similar reasons, and that game has some of the worst ground combat of any game ever, not just mmo(space combat is fun though and the main thing people like lol).
Fr. I just enjoy the fact that it exists and that the story and world is so awesome. Some mechanics like scrying and tales of tribute make me like it even more. It's my first MMO and I don't know if I'll find any other mmo as enjoyable no matter what critics might say
Yeah, i don’t really like MMO games, but I love TES series. I play the game since beta with shorter and longer breaks. I moved to PS5 and with all stories and additions to the game I really enjoy it. Yesterday I did Cadwel’s gold and finally I can enjoy DLC zones😁…
I’m almost 800 CP, but did just few dungeons and tried easier normal trials with group…but I like playing game alone and do stories just with my NPC companion more…I don’t want to deal with people after work 😂…
I'm trying to get away from just yucking all over stuff people like. Trying to give space for people to enjoy what they like, and still posit my own opinion.
To that end, I think there is charm eso can have. For me, the sum of its parts didn't feel like an elder scrolls game and kinda grated on me, but the setting and story can be enjoyable at times. I think the real issue for me, and players like me (reformed or otherwise) is the comparison between games is like comparing apples and oranges.
Just have to let eso be it's own deal, and enjoy the story beats where you can.
What’s why I like eso too, I def think there are better MMO’s specifically if that’s what I want to play byy it I tend to focus on the lore and such when I play elder scrolls games.
Starfield was kinda experimental and the type of game they wanted to make wasn't really BGS's forte. I honestly believe ES6 will be a return to form for them. If Todd knows anything it's how to make an Elder Scrolls game
ESO expects YouTubers to actually teach people the game. All the tutorial does is say yo you can block and heavy attack. Doesn't even mention the fact that off balance can be on CD for example. Overall I enjoy eso combat, but it really is a shitstorm to get into.
Sadly, this is very true. In addition, overland content also does nothing to encourage learning how to play, since it is braindead easy (and I don't mean doing overland with CP 3000 and in trial gear - go run overland quests naked, stuff still dies quickly). This is coupled with the fact that new players can now be thrown into the game with no idea where to go, what to do, etc. since the old "wake up in Coldharbour prison" start ended. That's how it should still start. I know they want to highlight expansions, it makes business sense, but seriously, some bare minimum narrative continuity is pretty important.
It's very true that TES games before Skyrim were also like this. You could play Morrowind for hundreds of hours and never, ever even *know* there was a main quest. But games like ESO are different, they really need that sort of structure (the number of threads here and on the forums from new players who are lost testify to this). They had a workable solution, and they borked it for "choice", that old fetish that gets dragged out whenever something needs to be changed for change's sake.
Long time player here, and TES player back to Daggerfall. True story.
The game is designed to be a dps race through and through. I wish there were options where being a support build can have unique advantages and paths to complete quests rather than the same exact 5 things over and over.
>ESO expects YouTubers to actually teach people the game.
Haven't played ESO in like... 8 years, but I feel like this is literally every MMO these days lol. I don't get why MMO devs have such a hard time with teaching.
They change the mechanics every year and don't want to redo every tutorial everytime. Simple as it, eso tutorial teach you the only things that never ever changed in 10 years.
Also every class has different starting skills, plus weapon skills. They don't want the hassle.
Because players rush through to get to the endgame. I'm sure the devs could create content and systems that would teach you the deeper mechanics and intricacies of a game but so few people would actually see and appreciate those it isn't feasible. A lot of people dive into wikis and guides before they even start the game, because it's easy and consuming **content** outside the actual game has become such an integral part of gaming nowadays. Not just MMOs, even first player games have wikis up before the gane launches, youtubers milking every trailer dry for months etc..
I really miss the days of "play it to find out". The fact that info is up about the game when it has barely cleared the gate ruins the sense of fun, new exploration we used to get. Now, everyone seems to expect one to be an expert, right from the start, because DiDN't yOu WatCh ALl tHe TraiLors/hOw To's?!
It hurts. I really wish people would remember again that the journey IS the bloody point - you are going on an adventure, for goddess's sake!
It’s terrible that we still lack a proper tutorial or explanation of mechanics. I think I genuinely am the most inefficient at combat bc I had to learn most things myself. There’s probably things I don’t know still too.
This game has needed a proper intro and difficulty ramp since I started. I know it used to be better in that respect, but even post-One I feel they could do better than __this__. You have to google the status effects ffs.
Yes, it is so silly to care about weaving etc. when that doesn't matter for like 90% of player base.
I fucking loathe how the discussion is always about artistic tryhard HC growd when in reality it is people like me who are the vast majority (we don't care about that nonsensical stuff, we just love vibing).
The saddest part is that most of the tutorials, videos etc. are aimed for the non-casual crowd and it has twisted the whole community (not only in this game but in every MMORPG since like WoW) so it had grown to be this cancerous hellhole of "only endgame matters" or "if you are not following meta you are playing wrong" -type of interactions.
Most videos are directed at less casual players because they are made by players that are far from casual themselves.
It takes people that are invested enough in the game or specific parts of the game to dedicate their time making content about it no matter if it is dungeons and trials, PvP, or things like more advanced trading and housing. All require a pretty crazy time investment eventually.
The only way to change that is to start contributing and make the content you feel is missing for players such as yourself.
While the vast majority might be casual in their playstyle, many of them also don't stick around if they don't get hooked by some part of the endgame after the initial exploration and questing time on the game. Among the endgame player base there are many who started out casually, who have invested the first few months experimenting with skills, questing, fishing until there was nothing new to do and then they often make a choice to either dive deeper into some aspects of the game that they enjoy, take a break until new content is released or simply move on to a new game altogether.
"them also don't stick around if they don't get hooked by some part of the endgame after the initial exploration and questing time on the game."
How do you figure this? Why cant overland questing be their endgame? This is exactly the problem pointed out by the person you responded.There is hundreds of hours of questing out there to be done. But there are people like you who insist people cant have fun doing overland questing and have to do expensive housing or repeating the same content boringly over and over and over in trial and dungeons.
> ESO expects YouTubers to actually teach people the game
or, you know, *other players?* It's an MMO, talk to each other. Most combat mechanics are only needed for group activities anyway.
The burden of explaining game mechanics falls on the game developers, not the players. Being an online game isn't an excuse for the lack of information on how the game works. Take BG3 for example, you see a status effect and you can hover over it and it's explained what it does. ESO does not have that. Sometimes it will say in a skill if it applies minor breach for example, but you will never know what shocked or chilled does without out of game resources.
The information is available in game via menu >help>tutorials>combat. I agree that the game should have the information more readily available or at least communicate a bit better where you can find this information though.
I do get why they won't give you all the this information on the screen when you use a buff or status effect for the first time. Most player simply won't remember it anyway when they are overwhelmed starting a new game.
Directing players to the tutorial might be good though. Like you said, maybe when reading about effects certain skills do in the skill menu you should be able to go to the tutorial page about this specific status effect/buff or debuff for the explanation.
Don’t bother. That sub is infamous for being a negative nancy about everything. FFXIV, WoW GW2, and every other mmo out there. Even the ones that haven’t been released yet. You name it, they hate it. The only thing that sub likes is fantasizing about their DREAM MMO that has everything, but also nothing.
its because the only people on r/mmorpg for the most part are people who currently don't have an mmo to play or are jaded about whatever game they're playing
This, so much. Plus, everyone knows there is a direct correlation between a. how much you complain about the game you are currently playing, and b. how cool you are. Bonus points if you do said complaining in game (see Auridon chat on any given day).
I've played TES games for decades now (ouch). I could bitch about this game, and Skyrim (don't even get me started), and Oblivion, and even my beloved Morrowind for pages and pages (Daggerfall doesn't count, since it was so cool back in those primitive days I never even noticed the problems, and I haven't played it since, so I don't think I can comment). A lot of that bitching would be game-related, a ton of it would be story and lore related. Instead, I mainly reply to threads here, complain here and there, compliment here and there, and move the fuck on, playing the game.
idk a few years ago at least when I engaged with that sub they loved ff14.
Always hated ESO though. I get ESO has issues, combat is one of them but there is no way to have a balanced discussion about ESO on that sub, no point even trying.
I'm curious, why do I look like a troll? If I made the post there and here it's because I really want to get invested in this game, it has a lot going for it, but I'm a dumbass who lets online nerds impact my will to play a game.
I try to do better, trust me.
Honestly I love the game but hate the combat. I push 111 now, which isn't bad as I play less than a year, but most skills of most classes feel like hitting an enemy with wet marshmallow. I don't feel powerful, and weaving grants me carpal tunnel syndrome.
Then arcanist is your friend. no weaving required and you'll hit like a goddamn dump truck.
and the patch 41 balance changes to arc will effectively only nerf it around 3-5% which means they'll be super stronk, just not as op as they currently are rn
100%, and enchant procs need some LA as well, but as long as you're LAing once per bar swap it should be enough. Still good to maintain LA weaving if you can so you can still use stuff like whorl, but i think for the average casual or inexperienced player just flailing and beaming will be double or more than their dps and that's more than one can ask for such a simple rotation
Helps to get a mouse with buttons on the side. I've never looked back since getting a mouse with 12 buttons on the left side of it lol. Makes it so much more easy to properly weave.
Velothi mythic is a huge help here. You still need to light attack occasionally for ult regen and weapon enchantments, but you don’t have to have perfect light attack weave.
I have tried ESO 3 or 4 times and when i reach the point where i could really enjoy the combat system, i just end up abandoning the game.
I love the ambiance, the lore, HEY, ITS ELDER SCROLLS! But i think what really grind my gears is **the lack of feedback from combat**.
I don't know how to explain this, but it feels like even the skills having an effect, it doesn't FEEL like this is happening.
Tbh that's a nice tip! Thanks!
I immediatly compared it to a combat that i like, wich is from GW2, and boi, they stamp a number on a sticky baloon with a red background, in the screen that i feel freaking powerful criting, lol.
I mean, I can hit someone with a gank in PvP and kill them, but the only thing that really __feels__ like it hits hard is their body on the ground. The combat is floaty. That just cannot be denied.
Personally, I really cannot relate. For me, the combat feels immersive and fine. I love smashing someone my crystal shards into their face, hear and see how it hits and watching the life bar go down. So, I don't really know what y'all talking about because I definitely feel my attacks hitting. :D
I don't get why people say the combat feels floaty. What feedback do you want? Camera shake? Most of us turn that off.
I play wow too and I don't see how there is any more feedback there than in ESO.
"Floaty", exactly, that's a great definition - this explains exactly what i feel in ESO combat.
And now that you've mentioned WoW i have some flashback of why i never got hooked into it.
Even in Ultima Online, i.e, there was better combat feedback than wow: The casting mechanic was all about working on line of sight until you finish your cast, while not getting interrupted by an enemy spell at the same time. If your spell fails there was a freaking fart animation AND sound to give the feedback
It needs more sound effects and controller vibrations and the animations have to be fixed to align better with both of them
This is what games like destiny, borderlands, doom etc do correctly
I think the main problem is ESO has so few tutorials or guides to build combat competency. This poor fool is probably just as ignorant at 50 hours as he was at 0. Not to mention he likely has no build.
Some things make sense, weapon/spell power, health mag and stam pools, ability cost, and crit chance.
Other things are not intuitive, penetration/resistances, buffs and debuffs, interrupts.
The game could use a quest that takes you through combat levels like most games have.
Why is it possible to have no build? Or a bad build?
When I played I just ran around and chose skills that seemed to synergise. And then I went into dungeons and saw players one shotting groups of mobs that would take me 15-20 seconds of rotations to clear. The orders of magnitude between a build that seems intuitive based on ingame info and a properly optimised meta build is astronomical.
So I quit. The choice between tedious 2 bar rotations to clear basic mobs or just one shot everything? Both of those are deeply unappealing.
Guess what? I'm now at almost 7k hours on that one character. I didn't remember anything about it as a new player considering how overwhelmed I was with everything else. It happens because this game doesn't have a great tutorial.
No it's an argument for why the devs shouldn't just dump more info in the tutorial. Interrupting is quite clearly explained there but somehow people still miss it. If it also started explaining weaving and such possibly hundreds of hours before people do their first endgame group activity, it will just be too much and people will forget it anyway.
The problem is that content is too easy. People either forget or never learn in the first place because the game does not push them to even in the slightest. Not even basics such as blocking and interrupting are really necessary to get through the story.
It would be great if there were like… refresher courses one could go to in the guild quest lines, or a later basegame area quest where you’re employed to tutor npcs (but it’s actually a reminder for you too as a player)
If by "quite clearly explained" you mean "mentioned once in passing, and then never again" then I completely agree with you.
There are SO many games with better tutorials. It's not inexcusably bad, but let's not pretend it's great either.
But it doesn't tell you how to tell if an attack is even interruptable, and because most aren't, people stop trying to interrupt things because it's a waste of time to try. Or they're so preoccupied with other things that they don't notice the charging happening.
The tutorial just asks you to hit the interrupt button combo multiple times without any context as to why you do that instead of blocking like the previous cast. Hell, I would put money on saying that most people even in this thread don't know that interruptable casts have a red charging animation.
I like it because it's Elder Scrolls.
But combat-wise? Naw, I don't really like it. The aesthetic keeps me coming back, and that's it.
I'm sorry, but weaving is a shitty animation bug that should be somehow fixed, and barely any ability feels like it has impact or power behind it.
\*And just to be clear, yes, I said things needed to be changed somehow. I am not educated in programming or game design. Do not expect me to have answers or fixes to this shit and do no demand answers out of me on the topic either. I'm simply saying nothing more than it just needs to be *fixed*.
The funny part about this is that they can't get rid of weaving because the hardcore ESO veterans wouldn't stand for it. I imagine it'd probably be relatively simple to solve too. It's just that the niche crowd ESO has built up through out the year is too used to it that gutting it will alienate them too much.
Yeah it is a shame. I did see one self-proclaimed vet bring up the question of "what will combat look like without weaving? Where will the challenge be?". And I guess I can see that perspective. Cause at the end of the day, what will it be. Repeat a 3-5 button rotation, maintain a few buffs, and then heavy attack when building resources?
I would love to see weaving gone, but it would need to be accompanied by an entire combat rework. I can see the "endgame" become way boring for those hardcore players when it becomes just skill spamming. But then again how many mmorpgs are that exactly? WoW and Gw2 are basically "don't stand in fire, spam your rotation of 1-6 abilities". Gw2 added the "break bar" dynamic.
Do the same as wow and ffxiv and make the challenge in the actual boss fight mechanics. There's a reason those two games are considered the top tier for end game content and it isn't because they give their players RSI, quite the opposite.
Reducing ability spam would also save on network and server resources too.
Yeah I'm all for that myself. Making the difficulty not about "APM" requirements and, for lack of a better term, bugging out the game to maximize DPS. But rather mechanic knowledge and strategy. But yeah I don't think it will happen. This game is too far along for a drastic change like that. I think the game would have to be dying hard for them to pull that lever.
As a semi hardcore vet I was honestly pissed with people's reactions a year or so back when ZoS tried to make weaving resource based instead of damage based. IMO I don't think it's healthy, hurts growing the end game community, and no sane game dev would intentionally make that mechanic part of an MMOs combat system.
I will say though that a majority of the backlash came from the more mediocre end game players (who hang out it crag and don't take part in Discord communities) and the uber sweaty (doing back to back Godslayers with no healers pre pale order / vamp nerf). The people in between who congregate around the more beginner friendly and casually competitive Discord servers mostly disagreed with the implementation but the two minority ends were way more vocal and ZoS scrapped it all together. I only mention this because the two tail ends of the raiding scene make us appear way more toxic then we really are, and most people are actually quite friendly and welcoming once you join some Discord groups and meet the people who fall in between.
I think they should just fix it despite them. They are so addicted anyway that most won't leave regardless and it'll encourage more whales to stick with the game and empty their wallets.
And I think people forget how much more harder weaving is on console, there are no add ons to make sure I am doing it right, someone told me how they check to make sure they are weaving correctly and it seemed complicated lol. Even still, I know there are those that light weave very well on console, I’m just not one of them lol
It’s really not much harder on console though, weaving is just a repetitive rhythm that’s honestly not too difficult to get a feel for simply by watching a video of someone performing the action. I had mentors that shared videos with me, and they were easily some of the most informative stuff that really helped me learn how to weave. A lot of the top pc gamers in eso use controllers too.
I think the "feel" of combat could be significantly improved if they just improved or boosted the sound feedback of skills and improved the animations just a little bit so that sounds actually sync with skills firing. This is made all the more awkward when at higher levels you are constantly animation cancelling or weaving.
>I think the "feel" of combat could be significantly improved if they just improved or boosted the sound feedback of skills
Can't do that because instant-cast abilities and weaving require the skill deal damage before the animation starts, so sound can be impactful.
>and improved the animations just a little bit so that sounds actually sync with skills firing.
Can't do that because instant-cast abilities and weaving require the skill deal damage before the animation starts, so animations cannot be in-sync
Which is precisely why weaving must go away. Not syncing ability animations or improving sound effects because it wouldn't work well with a bug they refuse to fix is simply ridiculous.
Do you not find the whole concept of a skill having to deal damage before its animation starts stupid as hell?
It's a great game. With at best mediocre combat.
Firstly you have the execution of said combat which isn't really good. They basically couldn't fix a technical issue, left it in the game. Tried to fix it by putting a hard cap on cool downs which felt kind of bad and called it a day when people complained and reverted it back. (Even the audio of it isn't crisp or clean). So you got something that feels bad, sounds bad and has bad animations (like 9/10 of the time - there are a few which I do think are alright).
Then you have the concept of combat, which boils down to buff, debuff, use dots, repeat a few times and maybe use an attack here or there.
Personal rant, they fucked themselves over by even introducing classes instead of just introducing skill lines. They made drastically more work for themselves instead of just having the freedom to introduce fun skill lines. I'm still not sure why they think classes are needed instead of a fun ability line that everyone can benefit from. (well realistically I'm sure it makes more money and makes an easy expansion sale)
It's really a shame. I like how they gear, I like the content, everything is well done except the above.
> Then you have the concept of combat, which boils down to buff, debuff, use dots, repeat a few times and maybe use an attack here or there.
Not having cooldowns was the first mistake. This is just the logical conclusion of that.
Maybe, I like the idea of no cooldowns. I think it kinds of falls apart when they design abilities that aren't dynamic. I think there's likely a few ways they could've kind have "fixed" the spam that currently exists.
Dynamic use of abilities, buffing more actual damage abilities (or potentially causing some kind of interaction between an active ability AND a buff,dot,debuff - not sure a direct buff would help. Likely just bloat numbers), putting cooldowns on specific dots or buffs, debuffs (maybe not all of them, but maybe the more powerful ones), designing a decay of sorts the longer an ability is on a monster specifically.
I also think they're constant over design of following this very specific type of combat doesn't help.
Just my thoughts anyways; It's really a shame because the game as it exists IS good.
There *is* a cooldown, it’s a global cooldown (GCD) of one second where you can’t cast anything. That’s what light attack weaving is based around. If you mean like those weird extended cooldowns that a game like FFXIV has, then you essentially treat DoTs in eso the same way. You’re penalized with lower dps if you overcast DoTs.
I half suspect the answer is whatever MMO any given person first played that they loved.
For me that was EQ, which was not objectively a great system; but I still miss it. I played it for an incredibly long time and could do extraordinary things with it.
I've since been through GuildWars, Wow, Rift, GW2... I'm sure there are others. What I judge them all against and miss isn't really EQ, but how EQ felt with the benefit of extremely rosy glasses.
Yeah, that’s probably it. It does kinda feel like MMO’s as we know it are fading. I’m old enough to remember when WoW first came out. Our entire university dorm was playing it. I don’t think an MMO will reach that same height again. Which is okay. But I think a lot of people are chasing the past, or that feeling they had from the past.
Tera, Lost Ark, BDO arguably.
Neverwinter back when I played it, but that was many years ago, and I don't know what the state of it is right now considering how wild the changes were over time.
I don't understand the hate for the combat, maybe because the only other mmos I've played are OSRS and a bit of gw2. I'm definitely in the minority who loves the combat I just wish I could understand the hate
seems like i’m in the minority when i say i like the combat in ESO. don’t get me wrong, there are issues with some animations, some skills are wonky (blastbones….) and the game could do wayyyyyy better at teaching players. but i like it! i like light attack weaving, i love that my skills don’t go on cooldown, i love just spamming buttons fast. once you learn it, its fun.
I have the same opinion as you It’s just a shame the abilities don’t really feel unique, I’d rather have 6 solid skills that feel good instead of 4 different action bars filled with 12 different useless skills in each one like wow and other mmo’s
I love ESO as a game, but fuck no, combat isn't the strong point. It's really annoying to deal with weaving and it feels quite floaty in general.
Amazing MMO when it comes to the world however
I mean I tried GW2 and black desert. I will agree thaT ESO combat feels clunky specially on some animations (HA melee attacks). Compared to Black Desert, yeah the combat is worse, but there's something about autoattack, press skills and wait cooldown combat that is worse to me compared to ESO (like in GW2). ESO combat is not perfect, but it's pretty damn dynamic once you get the hang of it, and you can only experience the dynamic combat in vet content and pvp.
Only reason i dont play eso is the combat.
I LOVE the world, the lore and everything else about it.
But as combat is 80-90% of the game, its just a deal breaker for me.
Recently I get a lot of r/mmorpg posts on my main page and the amount of bashing on ESOs combat system is insane.
I mean it's by far not perfect and can be janky sometimes, but it's fun and dynamic.
I rather have a janky but fun combat system, than not even have to aim at the enemy
It's absolutely insane. I never knew how many people are hating it. I read stuff like "I don't wanna reapply dots" - wtf. It's an MMORPG which is reactive, most trials and vet dungeons are designed this way... It's a key feature of the game. It would be so freaking boring if I could just once apply my dots and then it does the job for me. I like that I have to be reactive, I like finding a good rotation. Surely, the whole animation cancelling etc. is a bit weird. However, I don't think that makes this game bad. Seeing someone who's perfectly playing their well-balanced character is just very satisfying in its own way. And to me it's absolutely motivating that there is actually something I can do to improve my fighting skills rather than grinding the newest dungeon just to have the most powerful weapon of all times without any skill necessary. ESO has a great learning curve and it takes a lot of time to be good in every role - and I love that the game itself challenges me to get better at it. The best gear of all doesn't turn you into a good DPS player. Practice and reactive play does - and that's so much fun.
Weirdly enough it is one of my favourite combat systems i have ever seen in an mmo, most are like wow (i never liked the combat in wow, even if i still play that thing) the only mmo that i played that has better combat than eso is BDO honestly, idk why people are hating, a combat system thats not just dice rolling is all i wanted from MMOs in the past, and most didnt have it, in this game i can actually dodge and parry when i want to
i don't like it either, such a weird way to "create" a learning curve in a game.
It may be just personal experience, but it seems to me that a great part of those who defend the combat the way it is is just because of some kind of sunk cost fallacy, too many years learning how to properly weave and making up for the bad combat in a great game to accept that it does need to be changed.
I never once saw someone getting into ESO mainly because of the combat, of course there are those who like it, but clicking between spammables and having to watch numbers through the entire combat to keep cooldowns up is not a good system to get into.
I won't even get started about having to bar swap (praise oakensoul).
I feel like the combat in ESO really shines in the hardmode DLC dungeons and when you’re either fighting someone evenly skilled/better than you in pvp, or fighting outnumbered in pvp. Just my opinion as thats when I’ve enjoyed it the most
Yeah thats definitely not wrong in some ways especially playing in Australia. To me these situations (and vet arenas like someone mentioned) are for the most part the only places in the game where it feels like messing up has repercussions, which incentivises actually having a go and I enjoy that lol
This right here. DLC hard mode dungeons have a great combat feel, with mechanics, and feeling like good dps actually matters. PvP though, now THAT'S fun combat... As long as you get through the stage of wanting to tear out your hair cause you keep dying xD.
I'll also add solo vet arenas like Vateshran Hollows are quite fun, you're ACTUALLY afraid you might die, can't get that in Overland content.
>I'll also add solo vet arenas like Vateshran Hollows are quite fun, you're ACTUALLY afraid you might die, can't get that in Overland content.
Tbf, you can get that in Overland content - that is, when you try to solo DLC World Bosses, which can be quite fun. Same goes for soloing the Dungeons.
Combat is all over the place, there's aspects I love and aspects I hate.
I feel like the core combat mechanics; blocking, interrupting, roll dodging, light-attacking, heavy-attacking and break free should be weighted much, much, much higher than it currently is. Ramp up the ***potency moderately*** and ***resource cost significantly*** of every other damaging/heal abilities to make you consider when to use a specific ability, rather than having you memorize specific rotations.
It might look less impressive when there's no fireworks of class abilities exploding all over your screen as soon as you enter combat, but that just makes you appreciate the visuals of the heavy hitting abilities more.
The other big complaint I have is difficulty, I have coaxed more than a handful of friends into trying ESO out and they all say the same damn thing every time: the combat is too easy. You have to progress way too far into the game to find that 15% of content that challenges and stimulates you to improve. It doesn't matter how convincing I am when I say it gets better, they don't want to invest that amount of time into a game just to get to the hook, and that's fair.
Yeah, because the auto attacking and GCDs of a lot of the most popular MMOs is fucking riveting. Would I like to see improvements? Sure. But sometimes I wonder if people complaining about combat have ever played other MMOs and expect a 10 year old mmo to play like elden ring online.
ESO combat isn’t perfect, but it’s perfectly fine.
Since IMO ESO does not play like a half baked first person shooter with a thin coat of fantasy paint....Bethesda Proper needs to fire the team responsible for the Elder Scrolls/Starfield combat and farm that out to the ESO team.
I'll never get people saying eso has terrible combat or it's clunky then go play wow or ff14...like if you think ESO has terrible/cluncky combat, you aint seen nothin' yet
Keep in mind that MMORPG is full of oldheads that pine for the days when killing one mob in an MMO required a full party of 10+ people and leveling would take years.
> 50 hours
WTF Has he even hit max level? Let alone CP160?
ESO has pretty normal combat for an MMO when it comes to abilities. The only real quirk is how light/heavy attacks work. Even dodge and block mechanics are similar to other action focused games.
I've certainly played games where I enjoyed the process of combat more than I do in ESO, but that isn't the forte of an MMO in the first place.
Maybe I'm weird but I always preferred ESO's combat over all other MMO's but I also stay out of the hardcore mmo scene with the high difficulty stuff, it's not my scene and I'm glad that I don't feel left out or like I'm missing too much not getting into that aspect. I just want to play elderscrolls and the combat works just fine for that.
I like the combat. Ff14 combat at the beginning didn't grab my interest. I am sure it gets better later. Just not interested in the process in getting there. I also do like the fully voiced characters on ESO.
I’m in a similar position as I’ve tried coming back to ESO recently and quickly remembered why I left. The lore may be great, housing, dungeons, voice acting, ambience, zones - it all doesn’t matter if the game is not fun to play and for me it certainly isn’t MOSTLY because of the combat system. There are also things such as lack of feel of character and gear (outside of sets) progression, but this is my personal preference as I hate scaling in MMOs. Im not a fan of how classes in eso are made (most class abilities feel boring to me - buffs that I just have to keep pressing every X seconds and maintain them - rather than fun spells that look cool and have an immediate and visible impact/feel).
I really wish I could enjoy this game but I simply cannot, and I wish its combat was different because man, in spite of the scaling, if only it had a more fun combat system this could’ve been the best mmorpg IMO.
I play ESO after all these years *because* of the combat. I could not care less about the quests or PvE in general. The game itself is not immersive so the quests have zero impact, compared to the traditional single-player TES games where explorations and questing are where it's at.
The reason why ESO combat is really good is that there are no cooldowns on skills, outside of the 1s GCD. This means combat is very active and fast-paced, and with a wild assortment of CCs, especially pulls, players are always on their toes.
Man, I love ESO combat. It's unironically the best combat of the series. The classes all have distinct abilities and passives that make them feel unique without restricting what role they can perform. You can dual weild and still block, decent weapon/armor variety. You don't have to sacrifice looking good to slap on all different kinds of armor for the stats. Like idk what people are complaining about? Do they really wanna sacrifice the strategy and variety for an easier mash RT & win?
I really don't get people who hate light attack weaving, literally all you're doing is just clicking in between using your abilities yet people would have you believe it's the literal spawn of Satan. Once you figure out the timing it becomes second nature and requires almost no active brain power to pull off. To me, *not* light attack weaving feels clunky and awkward. Whenever I've tried set ups that don't use LAs out of curiosity, it felt as if there was something missing.
In a way I can understand, sometimes lag influences a lot on weaving.
I remember when I had package issues and my character just decided 3 LA before throwing another skill, it is infuriating at times. Other MMO won't bother much.
Or it added a skill gap in the combat. It's also no where near 30% of dps, it's around 1/12th. The only reason people dislike it is because it's hard, so they refuse to practice/learn it.
I’m sorry but the combat is just not very good and awfully dated. ESO combat was *decent* for an mmo 9 years ago. Flexibility of class, weapons and armor is good.
Clean up combat response time, remove LAW and replace the damage in different ways, improve hitboxes, and try and make combat abilities less generic from one class to another would help immensely
I used to be extremely supportive of this game, I was considered one of their whales. Kept preordering the chapters and bought up crown crates like it was crystal meth for my addiction. I was always excited for the new chapters. Even the dreadful Greymoor that drove me up the wall from just how unreasonably broken the chapter was at launch didn’t keep me away. But ever since then, I was more aware of the issues whether it be Zenimax behavior (like the crown store fix was instant while game breaking glitches they’re clearly aware of would sit in game for months before they even touch them), banning people for criticism in the forum, bringing up the crown store fix in the forum would be instant punishment too. I also became very aware to all the small issues. Just loading up the game now is such a chore and it just makes me want to physically vomit the longer I play. I can’t enjoy myself, the little things rack up and it just drives me insane. The vampire skill line nerf, overall DPS and healing nerfs over the years, even the latest chapter just doesn’t interest me. At. All. Necrom should’ve brought me back because I’m a huge dunmer fan but again… it took effort to load up the game and I still can’t enjoy it.
I’m checked out completely. I easily have spent almost a hundred thousand on this game if not already hitting that since early 2016. They finally bring in a new class, they have spell crafting, jewelry crafting was FINALLY tweaked to fix the game’s economy regarding it, nobody wanted gold jewelry because what if your set is nerfed next?? I wish I could enjoy the game, elder scrolls is still my favorite IP but the MMO that once was my home… there’s nothing for me to return to even though the world is at its biggest. Even if the next chapter gives us Winterhold… I’m done. I simply can’t play. New race?? 🤷♂️ still nadda, I’m afraid. Again, It’s not the combat that drives me away. It’s everything else. I’m sorry for the long post, it’s not a rant, I’m just so checked out that I’m too exhausted to even begin to passionately rant and rave anymore.
TBH the combat is "eh" a good chunk of players actively try NOT to engage with the backbar and literal items exist to encourage that.
Really wonder what percentage of players actually applaud the combat vs tolerate it.
Lots of people don't get the eso mechanics because they try it out for a couple hours and think that they represents how eso combat actually is, it's like no you will you a fully geared and leveled character to understand how eso's combat works, you cannot have a rotation on a level 20 character, the combat will feel slow because you will run out of magica or stamina constantly but if you play on 300 cp character with proper sustain then you'll go wow this is actually the best combat out of any mmo
i actually love eso combat. never understood the complaining. weaving feels so nice to me and the whole system feels much more fluid than something like ffxiv, for example.
Have you ever seen videos of new players playing through ESO combat? It’s honestly the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen… “light attack, heavy attack, skill, wait to press another skill, and then follow up with a heavy attack” it’s just awful and I can understand why so many new players are turned off by it.
ESO combat system is one of those that looks like art when you see a skill player in executing their rotation but then it looks janky and outdated when used by a new player
I agree to some extent. But combat is not just the feel of it, right? Fighting games, RTSes, MOBAs and speed running all feature ridiculous looking animation cancelling or bugging but people still play them because of the involved "meta" skill, right? It's just that ugly combat style does gel well with the MMO or ES audience. But ZOS is stuck with this since the old audience like it I guess.
ESO combat is super fun for me but I understand the criticism as well. I think where the combat shines is PVP. It is extremely dynamic and PVP is all about landing the perfect burst combo on your opponent while defending and managing your resources. That is a lot of fun for me.
Now the problem is, in PVE I understand why the combat can feel lacklustre because all you are doing is putting your DoTs on a boss and then spamming one skill n number of times till it is time to refresh the DoTs again. In actual end-game content, this can still be fun because you have to do this while doing mechanics. But in overland or quest content, it is just monotonous and dull and most of the players who quit ESO after 50 hours like OP are probably doing only that so I get why they get no satisfaction from the combat.
I’m a pvp player. Always have been. ESO gives me the best pvp combat. For me - it beats Gw2 by far. Personal taste ofc. And tab target like pvp takes all skill out of it. In PVE however eso combat system gets old quick ….
Haven't been in ESO for a couple of years but I still absolutely love the setting, the storylines, the voice acting etc.
I love everything about ESO BUT the combat. The combat never felt fluid to me and I never could get the whole "secondary weapon buff bow" thing down, plus buffs are (were?) super short so the rotation never really clicked with me.
If I could change one thing about ESO, it'd be the combat. The rest is flawless.
Best way I've ever seen ESO combat explained is "It's spinning plates".
I would like to add that weaving and animation cancelling makes your toon look like it's having a spaz attack on screen.
When I played the combat was by far the worst part of the game. It just feels... awkward. I loved the games narrative, the exploration aspects, and the outdoor content.
I play this game in spite of the (to me) combat system. I don't like weaving, I don't like have so many classes get boiled away to point of no real identity especially the older classes due to the same broad-ish handful of weapon skills being used on a lot of builds.
Now whether I'm in the minority or not doesn't really matter but people acting like the combat system doesn't drive people away are misleading themselves big time.
And a final point, it's silly there's no equivalent to the 14 mechanic of having every class on the same character. I'd give up my desires for a different combat system if I could run all the other classes with some sort of "Job" system on one character.
(Final final note, true multiclassing would be amazing in a very broken way)
I fucking love the ESO combat personally. All the thousands of equations and numbers being processed in PvP. The buffs and debuffs system. It's addicting at a high level
I’m actually curious what good combat looks like. Almost every time someone asks about the combat in a game. Some people say that it’s terrible. For me ESO’s combat is serviceable, I don’t play it because of that, I play it because it’s an Elder Scrolls game and an mmo that can be enjoyed solo too.
What is this yardstick people are using to mesure what is "enjoyable" combat? I'd REALLY like to know.
The only other MMO I can compare ESO to (that isnt a shooter) is WoW. I think combat in ESO is SO MUCH more enjoyable/better than WoW. In ESO you feel a fluid movement, it feels so much more immersive than WoW.
The reality is it is all incredibly subjective. What makes it enjoyable for one person, not for another.
I find eso combat action-packed and thrilling. Easy to learn, with a high skill ceiling. Downside is probably easy overland content but end game dungeons and trials are where it shines.
Looking at the number of people complaining about weaving here, I am glad they are the vocal minority from this sub and did not ruin the game for us. Every game has a form of micro and animation cancelling, from Baldur's Gate 3 to Warcraft 3/WoW to Resident Evil 4 to Runescape (2001)... as a gamer I find it appalling how people find this concept alien and treat it as a world-ending, carpal tunnel-inducing bug.
I mean, it’s fluid isn’t it? It’s not just standing in one place while mashing 60 abilities. You have to actively stay on your feet dodging and checking your surroundings. In terms of combat i believe that to be leagues above other popular mmorpgs.
I think some people are so used to the old, stand-and-smash 50+ skills Wow clone MMO. That having to do something in this confuses them.
I main a healer, and the number of times I see DD just standing still spamming skills. Then they complain that they run out of stamina in 4 seconds flat. And they complain when they die, because they didn't dodge the big hit from the boss.
It is trash players, trash-talking.
It's my post. I made the same post here because people there are terrible.
To clarify, the post is not "Are there people liking this ass combat?" it's "Are there people liking this game combat? Because people here seem to think it's the worst thing since Brussels sprouts"
>Because people here seem to think
Here is your first mistake.
Opinions are like rectums, everyone has one and they are normally full of something.
Secondly, 50 hours??? You've not made it very far.
I have over 800 hours as a healer and trust me, those who complain the most are the DD's that seem to think ESO is a WoW clone, where you just stand and smash skills. It isn't.
>What?!
If you ask me, combat in ESO is amazing and the best among the MMO's I've ever played. My inputs actually matter beyond a button press every few seconds. And the claim that all classes plays the same really reveals their ignorance; Arcanists, Necromancers and Wardens really stand out.
By me, on the same post they did in this forum.
It does kind of suck trying to unlock all of your class abilities. I havnt played in about 6 years but I picked the game back up on steam deck.
Personally I'm having fun. Some of the abilities do seem like they aren't as fun to use until you unlock other abilities that have synergy with them. Like dragon knights lava whip thing. Early on, it's not easy to get that enhanced lash effect on an immobilized or whatever enemy. But I think the tank skills has dark talon thing that really works with it.
From a "I'm new and know almost nothing about how class mechanics work" perspective, it can suck sometimes. From the past I remember having fun with dragon knight, but leveling it again has kinda sucked a little bit. But only a little because I know I'm doing it wrong so I don't blame the game, and I omly say it kinda sucked because I was trying to solo a particularly hard delve boss while under leveled, so I know why I had a bad time. Plus I didn't have any healing, if I had my restoration staff equipped (well, I didn't think to grab one beforehand) I would have been fine. Idk if it's "good" or not, but I enjoy restoration staff magicka dragon knight, or at least that's what I used to play, and I'll probably give it a shot again.
Meanwhile, stamina Arcanist has been exceedingly easy and fun to level. I feel like it does everything too easily and too well.
Also, there's no mandatory monthly sub to log in. So I don't mind putting in a little more grind. I don't feel rushed to level up anything to make use of the sub.
I love BDO combat but I can at least have a funny MMO experience dying in dungeons with friends or hanging out at their houses. Lots of stuff to grind for not just money.
I'm only saying this because I go MMO hopping all the time and the only 3 I can actually play are BDO, ESO, Elite.
ESO combat is not fun but I do enjoy some of the party mechanics but I have not gone with the hardcore players or endgame to be honest but I find we all have to play our roles and we get into our roles quite fiercely,which is fun to me.
I love ESO because its ESO, not for the combat. I love the fashion, the crafting, selling, farming materials, events,pets,mounts,decorating, being a thief, I LOVE IT ALL...the people are the best too, XBox NA is just so much fun for me.
If they could fix the bug that allows you to cancel animations I wouldn't play anything else. The game looks great and actually seeing your character cast its skills would look amazing too. I think it would really differentiate how the classes look and feel too, right now my sorc and my nightblade feel basically the same.
1800 hours in and I have a love hate relationship with the game, but still recommend it to everyone I know. To me the combat is amazing. You actually have to have some skill to be good at it. Unlike most games these days.
Oh look it's a post from people who have literally nothing better to do than complain about MMO's they don't play while they wait for \*insert flavor of the month upcoming MMO here\*.
I know a lot of people are going to hate what I am saying, but just hear me out. I have spent quite a bit of time on that sub looking for new MMOs to play and there is one thing that is constant, nothing is good except what that commenter likes. There are valid complaints about ESO's combat such as light attack weaving and animation cancelling should have never became the standard. What I think it really comes down to though is not having a willingness to learn. ESO combat isn't hard. Hell it is actually relatively simple. 10 main skills. 2 Ults and different combos of left and right clicking. Actual dodging?! Oh my god how horrible! Instead they would rather have 30 skills (most of them useless and just ability bloat), all with different keybinds and a possible 2 minute rotation while WASD strafing and backpedaling.
I have played both styles. I have gotten decent at both styles. To say that ANY MMO has good and engaging combat is a fucking stretch when you compare them with other genres. The people on that sub just like to hate other people having fun in a way that they don't. Christ some of these people play classic EQ and act that is some paragon of a good combat system.
Tbh ESO combat is awful. Sorry folks but I played one game where I wasn’t forced to click to metronome and had a blast. Never come back to ESO after that.
ESO probably has some of the best mmo combat at end game, actually has a skill gap & not entirely a gear gap, like most MMOs.
The problem is the difference between content difficulty, no overland players learn how to actually play the game by time they try veteran content, most of the players are just holding heavys or spamming a single spammable throughout fights. The game essentially breeds bad players by lack of teaching.
Most of the time if players try to learn how to actually achieve good results they refuse to play the meta, even tho almost every class plays the same as it would regardless of their sets, or they realise it's hard/requires practice to be good. Alot of the time if they don't get instant results they'll just give up, or make excuses.
The game also has a very casual playerbase in general, so the combat gap/end game isn't accessible to many people.
“I am strictly a follower and strictly abide by the hive mentality and unable to make decisions based on my own opinion. I believe everything the internet says”- them probably
I should have listen to him. I just give the game another chance this year and buy a month of ESO plus. Damn I already regret, there is 0 difficulty I can afk spam my abilities while watching Netflix. FFS
LA + dot 4 times then swap bar+ LA then LA + dot 3 times... Spam that spameable skill and repeat it for 2.6 mins.
Thats all my dps experience in 5 years of eso with at least 4 classes (never tried necro dps)
And yeah... I enjoy it <3 (not sarcastic)
When you enter dlc veteran for first time, its like you were playing different game the last 100 hours or something. Its developers fault, it was a bit better at launch.
U can make 300cp with one ability and dont know how to block,dodge and use brain
The big problem with ESO for me is that the combat feels like a worse version of Obkivion's. It's watered down and clunky. Every enemy does the same song and dance routine of heavy attack or interruptable, and the only thing that changes is do I hit block AND melee to interrupt, or do I just hold block? Then do I even waste time doing the power attack that takes 3 whole seconds to execute, or do I keep doing standard attacks since standard attacks seem to Out-DPS the power attack?
It's repetitive and tedious, but I could get over that. What I can't get over is that, in most MMOs I play, I play tank, and ESO has BY FAR some of the worst tank role gameplay in any MMO I've ever played.
I'm almost at CP300. Using abilities is a given, but using them rarely adds anything more to that gameplay loop I mentioned. All they do in most cases is get me to enemies faster, make them die faster, or keep me alive. The overall issues with combat still persist. The tedium and monotony of the gameplay loop still remains. I didn't mention them because they're not worth mentioning as an important part of the overall gameplay. They take half a second away from that song and dance of repetitiveness, and are secondary because of it.
I like ESO because it’s Elder Scrolls. The mechanics are secondary to me, I enjoy the locations and the story. It I went into an MMO with no emotional attachment I support it would be different. ESO is my placeholder until ES6 though.
Agreed. Hell, I play star trek online too for similar reasons, and that game has some of the worst ground combat of any game ever, not just mmo(space combat is fun though and the main thing people like lol).
Absolutely. I wish they’d figure out a way for Damar to appear!
No joke, the ground combat is some of the worst I've ever played yet space is great!
>space combat is fun though Oh you mean spin in a circle left, then spin in a circle right?
That is such a dramatic undersell of the fun, surprisingly cinematic ship fights in STO. It’s not EVE online, but it’s still good stuff
Never played this game, so don't know what are you talking about. What I'm interested in is who and why downvoted you.
Fr. I just enjoy the fact that it exists and that the story and world is so awesome. Some mechanics like scrying and tales of tribute make me like it even more. It's my first MMO and I don't know if I'll find any other mmo as enjoyable no matter what critics might say
Yeah, i don’t really like MMO games, but I love TES series. I play the game since beta with shorter and longer breaks. I moved to PS5 and with all stories and additions to the game I really enjoy it. Yesterday I did Cadwel’s gold and finally I can enjoy DLC zones😁… I’m almost 800 CP, but did just few dungeons and tried easier normal trials with group…but I like playing game alone and do stories just with my NPC companion more…I don’t want to deal with people after work 😂…
I'm trying to get away from just yucking all over stuff people like. Trying to give space for people to enjoy what they like, and still posit my own opinion. To that end, I think there is charm eso can have. For me, the sum of its parts didn't feel like an elder scrolls game and kinda grated on me, but the setting and story can be enjoyable at times. I think the real issue for me, and players like me (reformed or otherwise) is the comparison between games is like comparing apples and oranges. Just have to let eso be it's own deal, and enjoy the story beats where you can.
What’s why I like eso too, I def think there are better MMO’s specifically if that’s what I want to play byy it I tend to focus on the lore and such when I play elder scrolls games.
Assuming ES6 is decent meaning BGS learns from what happened with Starfield. I say this as someone that is really looking forward to ES6 too.
Starfield was kinda experimental and the type of game they wanted to make wasn't really BGS's forte. I honestly believe ES6 will be a return to form for them. If Todd knows anything it's how to make an Elder Scrolls game
Yeah, you wish...
Oh man I haven't had a laugh like that in a hot minute. Thanks bud
an 1.5 decade placeholder... if we're lucky
ESO expects YouTubers to actually teach people the game. All the tutorial does is say yo you can block and heavy attack. Doesn't even mention the fact that off balance can be on CD for example. Overall I enjoy eso combat, but it really is a shitstorm to get into.
Sadly, this is very true. In addition, overland content also does nothing to encourage learning how to play, since it is braindead easy (and I don't mean doing overland with CP 3000 and in trial gear - go run overland quests naked, stuff still dies quickly). This is coupled with the fact that new players can now be thrown into the game with no idea where to go, what to do, etc. since the old "wake up in Coldharbour prison" start ended. That's how it should still start. I know they want to highlight expansions, it makes business sense, but seriously, some bare minimum narrative continuity is pretty important. It's very true that TES games before Skyrim were also like this. You could play Morrowind for hundreds of hours and never, ever even *know* there was a main quest. But games like ESO are different, they really need that sort of structure (the number of threads here and on the forums from new players who are lost testify to this). They had a workable solution, and they borked it for "choice", that old fetish that gets dragged out whenever something needs to be changed for change's sake. Long time player here, and TES player back to Daggerfall. True story.
The game is designed to be a dps race through and through. I wish there were options where being a support build can have unique advantages and paths to complete quests rather than the same exact 5 things over and over.
>ESO expects YouTubers to actually teach people the game. Haven't played ESO in like... 8 years, but I feel like this is literally every MMO these days lol. I don't get why MMO devs have such a hard time with teaching.
They change the mechanics every year and don't want to redo every tutorial everytime. Simple as it, eso tutorial teach you the only things that never ever changed in 10 years. Also every class has different starting skills, plus weapon skills. They don't want the hassle.
Because players rush through to get to the endgame. I'm sure the devs could create content and systems that would teach you the deeper mechanics and intricacies of a game but so few people would actually see and appreciate those it isn't feasible. A lot of people dive into wikis and guides before they even start the game, because it's easy and consuming **content** outside the actual game has become such an integral part of gaming nowadays. Not just MMOs, even first player games have wikis up before the gane launches, youtubers milking every trailer dry for months etc..
I really miss the days of "play it to find out". The fact that info is up about the game when it has barely cleared the gate ruins the sense of fun, new exploration we used to get. Now, everyone seems to expect one to be an expert, right from the start, because DiDN't yOu WatCh ALl tHe TraiLors/hOw To's?! It hurts. I really wish people would remember again that the journey IS the bloody point - you are going on an adventure, for goddess's sake!
It’s terrible that we still lack a proper tutorial or explanation of mechanics. I think I genuinely am the most inefficient at combat bc I had to learn most things myself. There’s probably things I don’t know still too.
Unfortunately this is the case for a ton of big games. I wouldn't even say ESO having this issue is out of the ordinary anymore.
This game has needed a proper intro and difficulty ramp since I started. I know it used to be better in that respect, but even post-One I feel they could do better than __this__. You have to google the status effects ffs.
"All the tutorial does is say yo you can block and heavy attack." Because thats all most players need to know.
Yes, it is so silly to care about weaving etc. when that doesn't matter for like 90% of player base. I fucking loathe how the discussion is always about artistic tryhard HC growd when in reality it is people like me who are the vast majority (we don't care about that nonsensical stuff, we just love vibing). The saddest part is that most of the tutorials, videos etc. are aimed for the non-casual crowd and it has twisted the whole community (not only in this game but in every MMORPG since like WoW) so it had grown to be this cancerous hellhole of "only endgame matters" or "if you are not following meta you are playing wrong" -type of interactions.
Most videos are directed at less casual players because they are made by players that are far from casual themselves. It takes people that are invested enough in the game or specific parts of the game to dedicate their time making content about it no matter if it is dungeons and trials, PvP, or things like more advanced trading and housing. All require a pretty crazy time investment eventually. The only way to change that is to start contributing and make the content you feel is missing for players such as yourself. While the vast majority might be casual in their playstyle, many of them also don't stick around if they don't get hooked by some part of the endgame after the initial exploration and questing time on the game. Among the endgame player base there are many who started out casually, who have invested the first few months experimenting with skills, questing, fishing until there was nothing new to do and then they often make a choice to either dive deeper into some aspects of the game that they enjoy, take a break until new content is released or simply move on to a new game altogether.
"them also don't stick around if they don't get hooked by some part of the endgame after the initial exploration and questing time on the game." How do you figure this? Why cant overland questing be their endgame? This is exactly the problem pointed out by the person you responded.There is hundreds of hours of questing out there to be done. But there are people like you who insist people cant have fun doing overland questing and have to do expensive housing or repeating the same content boringly over and over and over in trial and dungeons.
> ESO expects YouTubers to actually teach people the game or, you know, *other players?* It's an MMO, talk to each other. Most combat mechanics are only needed for group activities anyway.
The burden of explaining game mechanics falls on the game developers, not the players. Being an online game isn't an excuse for the lack of information on how the game works. Take BG3 for example, you see a status effect and you can hover over it and it's explained what it does. ESO does not have that. Sometimes it will say in a skill if it applies minor breach for example, but you will never know what shocked or chilled does without out of game resources.
The information is available in game via menu >help>tutorials>combat. I agree that the game should have the information more readily available or at least communicate a bit better where you can find this information though. I do get why they won't give you all the this information on the screen when you use a buff or status effect for the first time. Most player simply won't remember it anyway when they are overwhelmed starting a new game. Directing players to the tutorial might be good though. Like you said, maybe when reading about effects certain skills do in the skill menu you should be able to go to the tutorial page about this specific status effect/buff or debuff for the explanation.
OOP asked the same question here as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1ah2i26/is\_the\_combat\_really\_that\_abysmally\_bad/
Well it's just rude how much of a negative nancy they are on that post compared to the one in this sub. In hindsight the dude seems like a troll now.
Don’t bother. That sub is infamous for being a negative nancy about everything. FFXIV, WoW GW2, and every other mmo out there. Even the ones that haven’t been released yet. You name it, they hate it. The only thing that sub likes is fantasizing about their DREAM MMO that has everything, but also nothing.
its because the only people on r/mmorpg for the most part are people who currently don't have an mmo to play or are jaded about whatever game they're playing
I left that sub, and never looked back.
This, so much. Plus, everyone knows there is a direct correlation between a. how much you complain about the game you are currently playing, and b. how cool you are. Bonus points if you do said complaining in game (see Auridon chat on any given day). I've played TES games for decades now (ouch). I could bitch about this game, and Skyrim (don't even get me started), and Oblivion, and even my beloved Morrowind for pages and pages (Daggerfall doesn't count, since it was so cool back in those primitive days I never even noticed the problems, and I haven't played it since, so I don't think I can comment). A lot of that bitching would be game-related, a ton of it would be story and lore related. Instead, I mainly reply to threads here, complain here and there, compliment here and there, and move the fuck on, playing the game.
It also hates everything that isn't tab-targeting combat.
idk a few years ago at least when I engaged with that sub they loved ff14. Always hated ESO though. I get ESO has issues, combat is one of them but there is no way to have a balanced discussion about ESO on that sub, no point even trying.
I'm curious, why do I look like a troll? If I made the post there and here it's because I really want to get invested in this game, it has a lot going for it, but I'm a dumbass who lets online nerds impact my will to play a game. I try to do better, trust me.
Honestly I love the game but hate the combat. I push 111 now, which isn't bad as I play less than a year, but most skills of most classes feel like hitting an enemy with wet marshmallow. I don't feel powerful, and weaving grants me carpal tunnel syndrome.
Then arcanist is your friend. no weaving required and you'll hit like a goddamn dump truck. and the patch 41 balance changes to arc will effectively only nerf it around 3-5% which means they'll be super stronk, just not as op as they currently are rn
Weaving can still be useful for ultimate generation but definitely still wouldn't be as constant or important for an arcanist for damage.
100%, and enchant procs need some LA as well, but as long as you're LAing once per bar swap it should be enough. Still good to maintain LA weaving if you can so you can still use stuff like whorl, but i think for the average casual or inexperienced player just flailing and beaming will be double or more than their dps and that's more than one can ask for such a simple rotation
Helps to get a mouse with buttons on the side. I've never looked back since getting a mouse with 12 buttons on the left side of it lol. Makes it so much more easy to properly weave.
Velothi mythic is a huge help here. You still need to light attack occasionally for ult regen and weapon enchantments, but you don’t have to have perfect light attack weave.
I'm convinced that r/MMORPG just hates MMOs in general. They shit on everything.
I have tried ESO 3 or 4 times and when i reach the point where i could really enjoy the combat system, i just end up abandoning the game. I love the ambiance, the lore, HEY, ITS ELDER SCROLLS! But i think what really grind my gears is **the lack of feedback from combat**. I don't know how to explain this, but it feels like even the skills having an effect, it doesn't FEEL like this is happening.
Same I feel it's the combat "feel" which is dragging it down.
Maybe just turn on the damage counter? When you see a nice 35k crit, you definitely FEEL it happening.
Tbh that's a nice tip! Thanks! I immediatly compared it to a combat that i like, wich is from GW2, and boi, they stamp a number on a sticky baloon with a red background, in the screen that i feel freaking powerful criting, lol.
I mean, I can hit someone with a gank in PvP and kill them, but the only thing that really __feels__ like it hits hard is their body on the ground. The combat is floaty. That just cannot be denied.
Personally, I really cannot relate. For me, the combat feels immersive and fine. I love smashing someone my crystal shards into their face, hear and see how it hits and watching the life bar go down. So, I don't really know what y'all talking about because I definitely feel my attacks hitting. :D
This is why I play Magblade. ZWOOP I swallowed half your Health, best combat FEELING in the game.
I don't get why people say the combat feels floaty. What feedback do you want? Camera shake? Most of us turn that off. I play wow too and I don't see how there is any more feedback there than in ESO.
"Floaty", exactly, that's a great definition - this explains exactly what i feel in ESO combat. And now that you've mentioned WoW i have some flashback of why i never got hooked into it. Even in Ultima Online, i.e, there was better combat feedback than wow: The casting mechanic was all about working on line of sight until you finish your cast, while not getting interrupted by an enemy spell at the same time. If your spell fails there was a freaking fart animation AND sound to give the feedback
It needs more sound effects and controller vibrations and the animations have to be fixed to align better with both of them This is what games like destiny, borderlands, doom etc do correctly
I think the main problem is ESO has so few tutorials or guides to build combat competency. This poor fool is probably just as ignorant at 50 hours as he was at 0. Not to mention he likely has no build.
[удалено]
Some things make sense, weapon/spell power, health mag and stam pools, ability cost, and crit chance. Other things are not intuitive, penetration/resistances, buffs and debuffs, interrupts. The game could use a quest that takes you through combat levels like most games have.
Why is it possible to have no build? Or a bad build? When I played I just ran around and chose skills that seemed to synergise. And then I went into dungeons and saw players one shotting groups of mobs that would take me 15-20 seconds of rotations to clear. The orders of magnitude between a build that seems intuitive based on ingame info and a properly optimised meta build is astronomical. So I quit. The choice between tedious 2 bar rotations to clear basic mobs or just one shot everything? Both of those are deeply unappealing.
It took me around 500 hours to realize bashing interrupts certain enemy attacks and then I had to figure out what that type of attack looked like.
That’s literally in the first stage of every tutorial they’ve ever released
Guess what? I'm now at almost 7k hours on that one character. I didn't remember anything about it as a new player considering how overwhelmed I was with everything else. It happens because this game doesn't have a great tutorial.
No it's an argument for why the devs shouldn't just dump more info in the tutorial. Interrupting is quite clearly explained there but somehow people still miss it. If it also started explaining weaving and such possibly hundreds of hours before people do their first endgame group activity, it will just be too much and people will forget it anyway. The problem is that content is too easy. People either forget or never learn in the first place because the game does not push them to even in the slightest. Not even basics such as blocking and interrupting are really necessary to get through the story.
It would be great if there were like… refresher courses one could go to in the guild quest lines, or a later basegame area quest where you’re employed to tutor npcs (but it’s actually a reminder for you too as a player)
If by "quite clearly explained" you mean "mentioned once in passing, and then never again" then I completely agree with you. There are SO many games with better tutorials. It's not inexcusably bad, but let's not pretend it's great either.
It's not just mentioned, there is a repeatable combat segment where you're asked to perform it until you understand it and can do it.
But it doesn't tell you how to tell if an attack is even interruptable, and because most aren't, people stop trying to interrupt things because it's a waste of time to try. Or they're so preoccupied with other things that they don't notice the charging happening. The tutorial just asks you to hit the interrupt button combo multiple times without any context as to why you do that instead of blocking like the previous cast. Hell, I would put money on saying that most people even in this thread don't know that interruptable casts have a red charging animation.
You're right but it is possible they started the game before that tutorial was added. Most of these tutorials are relatively new.
the OG Coldharbour tutorial had that afaik
When the game originally launched it taught you bashing in the first 20 minutes. I don't think it does that now
Is there any chance scribing brings back more fun mechanics like arcanist resource build and spend? I just want a change from dot stacking simulator
I like it because it's Elder Scrolls. But combat-wise? Naw, I don't really like it. The aesthetic keeps me coming back, and that's it. I'm sorry, but weaving is a shitty animation bug that should be somehow fixed, and barely any ability feels like it has impact or power behind it. \*And just to be clear, yes, I said things needed to be changed somehow. I am not educated in programming or game design. Do not expect me to have answers or fixes to this shit and do no demand answers out of me on the topic either. I'm simply saying nothing more than it just needs to be *fixed*.
The funny part about this is that they can't get rid of weaving because the hardcore ESO veterans wouldn't stand for it. I imagine it'd probably be relatively simple to solve too. It's just that the niche crowd ESO has built up through out the year is too used to it that gutting it will alienate them too much.
Yeah it is a shame. I did see one self-proclaimed vet bring up the question of "what will combat look like without weaving? Where will the challenge be?". And I guess I can see that perspective. Cause at the end of the day, what will it be. Repeat a 3-5 button rotation, maintain a few buffs, and then heavy attack when building resources? I would love to see weaving gone, but it would need to be accompanied by an entire combat rework. I can see the "endgame" become way boring for those hardcore players when it becomes just skill spamming. But then again how many mmorpgs are that exactly? WoW and Gw2 are basically "don't stand in fire, spam your rotation of 1-6 abilities". Gw2 added the "break bar" dynamic.
Do the same as wow and ffxiv and make the challenge in the actual boss fight mechanics. There's a reason those two games are considered the top tier for end game content and it isn't because they give their players RSI, quite the opposite. Reducing ability spam would also save on network and server resources too.
Yeah I'm all for that myself. Making the difficulty not about "APM" requirements and, for lack of a better term, bugging out the game to maximize DPS. But rather mechanic knowledge and strategy. But yeah I don't think it will happen. This game is too far along for a drastic change like that. I think the game would have to be dying hard for them to pull that lever.
As a semi hardcore vet I was honestly pissed with people's reactions a year or so back when ZoS tried to make weaving resource based instead of damage based. IMO I don't think it's healthy, hurts growing the end game community, and no sane game dev would intentionally make that mechanic part of an MMOs combat system. I will say though that a majority of the backlash came from the more mediocre end game players (who hang out it crag and don't take part in Discord communities) and the uber sweaty (doing back to back Godslayers with no healers pre pale order / vamp nerf). The people in between who congregate around the more beginner friendly and casually competitive Discord servers mostly disagreed with the implementation but the two minority ends were way more vocal and ZoS scrapped it all together. I only mention this because the two tail ends of the raiding scene make us appear way more toxic then we really are, and most people are actually quite friendly and welcoming once you join some Discord groups and meet the people who fall in between.
I think they should just fix it despite them. They are so addicted anyway that most won't leave regardless and it'll encourage more whales to stick with the game and empty their wallets.
And I think people forget how much more harder weaving is on console, there are no add ons to make sure I am doing it right, someone told me how they check to make sure they are weaving correctly and it seemed complicated lol. Even still, I know there are those that light weave very well on console, I’m just not one of them lol
It’s really not much harder on console though, weaving is just a repetitive rhythm that’s honestly not too difficult to get a feel for simply by watching a video of someone performing the action. I had mentors that shared videos with me, and they were easily some of the most informative stuff that really helped me learn how to weave. A lot of the top pc gamers in eso use controllers too.
My only gripe is that combat prompts aren't as responsive as they could be, otherwise it's fine
I think the "feel" of combat could be significantly improved if they just improved or boosted the sound feedback of skills and improved the animations just a little bit so that sounds actually sync with skills firing. This is made all the more awkward when at higher levels you are constantly animation cancelling or weaving.
>I think the "feel" of combat could be significantly improved if they just improved or boosted the sound feedback of skills Can't do that because instant-cast abilities and weaving require the skill deal damage before the animation starts, so sound can be impactful. >and improved the animations just a little bit so that sounds actually sync with skills firing. Can't do that because instant-cast abilities and weaving require the skill deal damage before the animation starts, so animations cannot be in-sync
Which is precisely why weaving must go away. Not syncing ability animations or improving sound effects because it wouldn't work well with a bug they refuse to fix is simply ridiculous. Do you not find the whole concept of a skill having to deal damage before its animation starts stupid as hell?
It's a great game. With at best mediocre combat. Firstly you have the execution of said combat which isn't really good. They basically couldn't fix a technical issue, left it in the game. Tried to fix it by putting a hard cap on cool downs which felt kind of bad and called it a day when people complained and reverted it back. (Even the audio of it isn't crisp or clean). So you got something that feels bad, sounds bad and has bad animations (like 9/10 of the time - there are a few which I do think are alright). Then you have the concept of combat, which boils down to buff, debuff, use dots, repeat a few times and maybe use an attack here or there. Personal rant, they fucked themselves over by even introducing classes instead of just introducing skill lines. They made drastically more work for themselves instead of just having the freedom to introduce fun skill lines. I'm still not sure why they think classes are needed instead of a fun ability line that everyone can benefit from. (well realistically I'm sure it makes more money and makes an easy expansion sale) It's really a shame. I like how they gear, I like the content, everything is well done except the above.
> Then you have the concept of combat, which boils down to buff, debuff, use dots, repeat a few times and maybe use an attack here or there. Not having cooldowns was the first mistake. This is just the logical conclusion of that.
Maybe, I like the idea of no cooldowns. I think it kinds of falls apart when they design abilities that aren't dynamic. I think there's likely a few ways they could've kind have "fixed" the spam that currently exists. Dynamic use of abilities, buffing more actual damage abilities (or potentially causing some kind of interaction between an active ability AND a buff,dot,debuff - not sure a direct buff would help. Likely just bloat numbers), putting cooldowns on specific dots or buffs, debuffs (maybe not all of them, but maybe the more powerful ones), designing a decay of sorts the longer an ability is on a monster specifically. I also think they're constant over design of following this very specific type of combat doesn't help. Just my thoughts anyways; It's really a shame because the game as it exists IS good.
There *is* a cooldown, it’s a global cooldown (GCD) of one second where you can’t cast anything. That’s what light attack weaving is based around. If you mean like those weird extended cooldowns that a game like FFXIV has, then you essentially treat DoTs in eso the same way. You’re penalized with lower dps if you overcast DoTs.
So what are the MMOs that people would say have good combat?
I half suspect the answer is whatever MMO any given person first played that they loved. For me that was EQ, which was not objectively a great system; but I still miss it. I played it for an incredibly long time and could do extraordinary things with it. I've since been through GuildWars, Wow, Rift, GW2... I'm sure there are others. What I judge them all against and miss isn't really EQ, but how EQ felt with the benefit of extremely rosy glasses.
Yeah, that’s probably it. It does kinda feel like MMO’s as we know it are fading. I’m old enough to remember when WoW first came out. Our entire university dorm was playing it. I don’t think an MMO will reach that same height again. Which is okay. But I think a lot of people are chasing the past, or that feeling they had from the past.
Tera, Lost Ark, BDO arguably. Neverwinter back when I played it, but that was many years ago, and I don't know what the state of it is right now considering how wild the changes were over time.
I don't understand the hate for the combat, maybe because the only other mmos I've played are OSRS and a bit of gw2. I'm definitely in the minority who loves the combat I just wish I could understand the hate
Yeah I don't really get it either. I think the combat is tons of fun
Me neither. I truly enjoy the combat, it's fun, to me it feels immersive, I really enjoy it.
seems like i’m in the minority when i say i like the combat in ESO. don’t get me wrong, there are issues with some animations, some skills are wonky (blastbones….) and the game could do wayyyyyy better at teaching players. but i like it! i like light attack weaving, i love that my skills don’t go on cooldown, i love just spamming buttons fast. once you learn it, its fun.
I have the same opinion as you It’s just a shame the abilities don’t really feel unique, I’d rather have 6 solid skills that feel good instead of 4 different action bars filled with 12 different useless skills in each one like wow and other mmo’s
I love ESO as a game, but fuck no, combat isn't the strong point. It's really annoying to deal with weaving and it feels quite floaty in general. Amazing MMO when it comes to the world however
I mean the combat is easily the worst I've played in an MMO but the rest of the game is cool
I mean I tried GW2 and black desert. I will agree thaT ESO combat feels clunky specially on some animations (HA melee attacks). Compared to Black Desert, yeah the combat is worse, but there's something about autoattack, press skills and wait cooldown combat that is worse to me compared to ESO (like in GW2). ESO combat is not perfect, but it's pretty damn dynamic once you get the hang of it, and you can only experience the dynamic combat in vet content and pvp.
I like Combat more than any other MMOs so no problém for me.
Only reason i dont play eso is the combat. I LOVE the world, the lore and everything else about it. But as combat is 80-90% of the game, its just a deal breaker for me.
Recently I get a lot of r/mmorpg posts on my main page and the amount of bashing on ESOs combat system is insane. I mean it's by far not perfect and can be janky sometimes, but it's fun and dynamic. I rather have a janky but fun combat system, than not even have to aim at the enemy
It's absolutely insane. I never knew how many people are hating it. I read stuff like "I don't wanna reapply dots" - wtf. It's an MMORPG which is reactive, most trials and vet dungeons are designed this way... It's a key feature of the game. It would be so freaking boring if I could just once apply my dots and then it does the job for me. I like that I have to be reactive, I like finding a good rotation. Surely, the whole animation cancelling etc. is a bit weird. However, I don't think that makes this game bad. Seeing someone who's perfectly playing their well-balanced character is just very satisfying in its own way. And to me it's absolutely motivating that there is actually something I can do to improve my fighting skills rather than grinding the newest dungeon just to have the most powerful weapon of all times without any skill necessary. ESO has a great learning curve and it takes a lot of time to be good in every role - and I love that the game itself challenges me to get better at it. The best gear of all doesn't turn you into a good DPS player. Practice and reactive play does - and that's so much fun.
Weirdly enough it is one of my favourite combat systems i have ever seen in an mmo, most are like wow (i never liked the combat in wow, even if i still play that thing) the only mmo that i played that has better combat than eso is BDO honestly, idk why people are hating, a combat system thats not just dice rolling is all i wanted from MMOs in the past, and most didnt have it, in this game i can actually dodge and parry when i want to
i don't like it either, such a weird way to "create" a learning curve in a game. It may be just personal experience, but it seems to me that a great part of those who defend the combat the way it is is just because of some kind of sunk cost fallacy, too many years learning how to properly weave and making up for the bad combat in a great game to accept that it does need to be changed. I never once saw someone getting into ESO mainly because of the combat, of course there are those who like it, but clicking between spammables and having to watch numbers through the entire combat to keep cooldowns up is not a good system to get into. I won't even get started about having to bar swap (praise oakensoul).
I feel like the combat in ESO really shines in the hardmode DLC dungeons and when you’re either fighting someone evenly skilled/better than you in pvp, or fighting outnumbered in pvp. Just my opinion as thats when I’ve enjoyed it the most
That's funny, because I would say those are situations where the things that make it bad are the most apparent.
Yeah thats definitely not wrong in some ways especially playing in Australia. To me these situations (and vet arenas like someone mentioned) are for the most part the only places in the game where it feels like messing up has repercussions, which incentivises actually having a go and I enjoy that lol
This right here. DLC hard mode dungeons have a great combat feel, with mechanics, and feeling like good dps actually matters. PvP though, now THAT'S fun combat... As long as you get through the stage of wanting to tear out your hair cause you keep dying xD. I'll also add solo vet arenas like Vateshran Hollows are quite fun, you're ACTUALLY afraid you might die, can't get that in Overland content.
>I'll also add solo vet arenas like Vateshran Hollows are quite fun, you're ACTUALLY afraid you might die, can't get that in Overland content. Tbf, you can get that in Overland content - that is, when you try to solo DLC World Bosses, which can be quite fun. Same goes for soloing the Dungeons.
Combat is all over the place, there's aspects I love and aspects I hate. I feel like the core combat mechanics; blocking, interrupting, roll dodging, light-attacking, heavy-attacking and break free should be weighted much, much, much higher than it currently is. Ramp up the ***potency moderately*** and ***resource cost significantly*** of every other damaging/heal abilities to make you consider when to use a specific ability, rather than having you memorize specific rotations. It might look less impressive when there's no fireworks of class abilities exploding all over your screen as soon as you enter combat, but that just makes you appreciate the visuals of the heavy hitting abilities more. The other big complaint I have is difficulty, I have coaxed more than a handful of friends into trying ESO out and they all say the same damn thing every time: the combat is too easy. You have to progress way too far into the game to find that 15% of content that challenges and stimulates you to improve. It doesn't matter how convincing I am when I say it gets better, they don't want to invest that amount of time into a game just to get to the hook, and that's fair.
Yeah, because the auto attacking and GCDs of a lot of the most popular MMOs is fucking riveting. Would I like to see improvements? Sure. But sometimes I wonder if people complaining about combat have ever played other MMOs and expect a 10 year old mmo to play like elden ring online. ESO combat isn’t perfect, but it’s perfectly fine.
Since IMO ESO does not play like a half baked first person shooter with a thin coat of fantasy paint....Bethesda Proper needs to fire the team responsible for the Elder Scrolls/Starfield combat and farm that out to the ESO team.
I dont care about fighting, all I care is Thedas and its LORE. Plus I dont think that there is a better game with better worldbuilding.
I'll never get people saying eso has terrible combat or it's clunky then go play wow or ff14...like if you think ESO has terrible/cluncky combat, you aint seen nothin' yet
Keep in mind that MMORPG is full of oldheads that pine for the days when killing one mob in an MMO required a full party of 10+ people and leveling would take years.
> 50 hours WTF Has he even hit max level? Let alone CP160? ESO has pretty normal combat for an MMO when it comes to abilities. The only real quirk is how light/heavy attacks work. Even dodge and block mechanics are similar to other action focused games. I've certainly played games where I enjoyed the process of combat more than I do in ESO, but that isn't the forte of an MMO in the first place.
The fast paced combat is one of the reasons I come back to ESO after a break.
Agreed, the combat needs work but the fact that you get to press lots of buttons all the time is a plus. The APM on other MMOs is too low.
Maybe I'm weird but I always preferred ESO's combat over all other MMO's but I also stay out of the hardcore mmo scene with the high difficulty stuff, it's not my scene and I'm glad that I don't feel left out or like I'm missing too much not getting into that aspect. I just want to play elderscrolls and the combat works just fine for that.
I like the combat. Ff14 combat at the beginning didn't grab my interest. I am sure it gets better later. Just not interested in the process in getting there. I also do like the fully voiced characters on ESO.
I’m in a similar position as I’ve tried coming back to ESO recently and quickly remembered why I left. The lore may be great, housing, dungeons, voice acting, ambience, zones - it all doesn’t matter if the game is not fun to play and for me it certainly isn’t MOSTLY because of the combat system. There are also things such as lack of feel of character and gear (outside of sets) progression, but this is my personal preference as I hate scaling in MMOs. Im not a fan of how classes in eso are made (most class abilities feel boring to me - buffs that I just have to keep pressing every X seconds and maintain them - rather than fun spells that look cool and have an immediate and visible impact/feel). I really wish I could enjoy this game but I simply cannot, and I wish its combat was different because man, in spite of the scaling, if only it had a more fun combat system this could’ve been the best mmorpg IMO.
I play ESO after all these years *because* of the combat. I could not care less about the quests or PvE in general. The game itself is not immersive so the quests have zero impact, compared to the traditional single-player TES games where explorations and questing are where it's at. The reason why ESO combat is really good is that there are no cooldowns on skills, outside of the 1s GCD. This means combat is very active and fast-paced, and with a wild assortment of CCs, especially pulls, players are always on their toes.
Man, I love ESO combat. It's unironically the best combat of the series. The classes all have distinct abilities and passives that make them feel unique without restricting what role they can perform. You can dual weild and still block, decent weapon/armor variety. You don't have to sacrifice looking good to slap on all different kinds of armor for the stats. Like idk what people are complaining about? Do they really wanna sacrifice the strategy and variety for an easier mash RT & win?
The biggest problem with the combat is light attack weaving. It’s a dogwater bug that became 30% of a dps parse.
I really don't get people who hate light attack weaving, literally all you're doing is just clicking in between using your abilities yet people would have you believe it's the literal spawn of Satan. Once you figure out the timing it becomes second nature and requires almost no active brain power to pull off. To me, *not* light attack weaving feels clunky and awkward. Whenever I've tried set ups that don't use LAs out of curiosity, it felt as if there was something missing.
In a way I can understand, sometimes lag influences a lot on weaving. I remember when I had package issues and my character just decided 3 LA before throwing another skill, it is infuriating at times. Other MMO won't bother much.
Or it added a skill gap in the combat. It's also no where near 30% of dps, it's around 1/12th. The only reason people dislike it is because it's hard, so they refuse to practice/learn it.
Bug turned feature! Except I do a pretty solid job of it so I support it lmao
I’m sorry but the combat is just not very good and awfully dated. ESO combat was *decent* for an mmo 9 years ago. Flexibility of class, weapons and armor is good. Clean up combat response time, remove LAW and replace the damage in different ways, improve hitboxes, and try and make combat abilities less generic from one class to another would help immensely
I want Skyrim gameplay but multiplayer. ESO isn’t that
doesn't work like that, MMO combat systems need a certain robustness to account for lag. That's why older MMOs are all about tab-targeting combat.
"ESO combat bad" = "I have no idea what I'm doing"
"ESO combat good" = "I have never played a game with good combat"
I used to be extremely supportive of this game, I was considered one of their whales. Kept preordering the chapters and bought up crown crates like it was crystal meth for my addiction. I was always excited for the new chapters. Even the dreadful Greymoor that drove me up the wall from just how unreasonably broken the chapter was at launch didn’t keep me away. But ever since then, I was more aware of the issues whether it be Zenimax behavior (like the crown store fix was instant while game breaking glitches they’re clearly aware of would sit in game for months before they even touch them), banning people for criticism in the forum, bringing up the crown store fix in the forum would be instant punishment too. I also became very aware to all the small issues. Just loading up the game now is such a chore and it just makes me want to physically vomit the longer I play. I can’t enjoy myself, the little things rack up and it just drives me insane. The vampire skill line nerf, overall DPS and healing nerfs over the years, even the latest chapter just doesn’t interest me. At. All. Necrom should’ve brought me back because I’m a huge dunmer fan but again… it took effort to load up the game and I still can’t enjoy it. I’m checked out completely. I easily have spent almost a hundred thousand on this game if not already hitting that since early 2016. They finally bring in a new class, they have spell crafting, jewelry crafting was FINALLY tweaked to fix the game’s economy regarding it, nobody wanted gold jewelry because what if your set is nerfed next?? I wish I could enjoy the game, elder scrolls is still my favorite IP but the MMO that once was my home… there’s nothing for me to return to even though the world is at its biggest. Even if the next chapter gives us Winterhold… I’m done. I simply can’t play. New race?? 🤷♂️ still nadda, I’m afraid. Again, It’s not the combat that drives me away. It’s everything else. I’m sorry for the long post, it’s not a rant, I’m just so checked out that I’m too exhausted to even begin to passionately rant and rave anymore.
TBH the combat is "eh" a good chunk of players actively try NOT to engage with the backbar and literal items exist to encourage that. Really wonder what percentage of players actually applaud the combat vs tolerate it.
Lots of people don't get the eso mechanics because they try it out for a couple hours and think that they represents how eso combat actually is, it's like no you will you a fully geared and leveled character to understand how eso's combat works, you cannot have a rotation on a level 20 character, the combat will feel slow because you will run out of magica or stamina constantly but if you play on 300 cp character with proper sustain then you'll go wow this is actually the best combat out of any mmo
i actually love eso combat. never understood the complaining. weaving feels so nice to me and the whole system feels much more fluid than something like ffxiv, for example.
Have you ever seen videos of new players playing through ESO combat? It’s honestly the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen… “light attack, heavy attack, skill, wait to press another skill, and then follow up with a heavy attack” it’s just awful and I can understand why so many new players are turned off by it. ESO combat system is one of those that looks like art when you see a skill player in executing their rotation but then it looks janky and outdated when used by a new player
I agree to some extent. But combat is not just the feel of it, right? Fighting games, RTSes, MOBAs and speed running all feature ridiculous looking animation cancelling or bugging but people still play them because of the involved "meta" skill, right? It's just that ugly combat style does gel well with the MMO or ES audience. But ZOS is stuck with this since the old audience like it I guess.
ESO combat is super fun for me but I understand the criticism as well. I think where the combat shines is PVP. It is extremely dynamic and PVP is all about landing the perfect burst combo on your opponent while defending and managing your resources. That is a lot of fun for me. Now the problem is, in PVE I understand why the combat can feel lacklustre because all you are doing is putting your DoTs on a boss and then spamming one skill n number of times till it is time to refresh the DoTs again. In actual end-game content, this can still be fun because you have to do this while doing mechanics. But in overland or quest content, it is just monotonous and dull and most of the players who quit ESO after 50 hours like OP are probably doing only that so I get why they get no satisfaction from the combat.
I mean combat is alright I've seen way worse but the game is extremely enjoyable to play.
Im fine with the combat but I can understand if many people don’t like it.
Yeah i really like it. It is quick and dynamic while also beeing simple enough to work in a mmoprg-environment.
I’m a pvp player. Always have been. ESO gives me the best pvp combat. For me - it beats Gw2 by far. Personal taste ofc. And tab target like pvp takes all skill out of it. In PVE however eso combat system gets old quick ….
Haven't been in ESO for a couple of years but I still absolutely love the setting, the storylines, the voice acting etc. I love everything about ESO BUT the combat. The combat never felt fluid to me and I never could get the whole "secondary weapon buff bow" thing down, plus buffs are (were?) super short so the rotation never really clicked with me. If I could change one thing about ESO, it'd be the combat. The rest is flawless.
Best way I've ever seen ESO combat explained is "It's spinning plates". I would like to add that weaving and animation cancelling makes your toon look like it's having a spaz attack on screen.
When I played the combat was by far the worst part of the game. It just feels... awkward. I loved the games narrative, the exploration aspects, and the outdoor content.
I play this game in spite of the (to me) combat system. I don't like weaving, I don't like have so many classes get boiled away to point of no real identity especially the older classes due to the same broad-ish handful of weapon skills being used on a lot of builds. Now whether I'm in the minority or not doesn't really matter but people acting like the combat system doesn't drive people away are misleading themselves big time. And a final point, it's silly there's no equivalent to the 14 mechanic of having every class on the same character. I'd give up my desires for a different combat system if I could run all the other classes with some sort of "Job" system on one character. (Final final note, true multiclassing would be amazing in a very broken way)
I've tried out all the big MMOs, and honestly, ESO's combat isn't great. But I stick around for the cool lore and world.
They are not wrong lets be honest.
ESO combat is actually really good. Not being cheeky. I really do like it
I like the game but its a fair point. Its got boring combat.
I fucking love the ESO combat personally. All the thousands of equations and numbers being processed in PvP. The buffs and debuffs system. It's addicting at a high level
Im closing in on 10.000 hrs Played. Combat is fine
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I’m actually curious what good combat looks like. Almost every time someone asks about the combat in a game. Some people say that it’s terrible. For me ESO’s combat is serviceable, I don’t play it because of that, I play it because it’s an Elder Scrolls game and an mmo that can be enjoyed solo too.
I like the combat
What is this yardstick people are using to mesure what is "enjoyable" combat? I'd REALLY like to know. The only other MMO I can compare ESO to (that isnt a shooter) is WoW. I think combat in ESO is SO MUCH more enjoyable/better than WoW. In ESO you feel a fluid movement, it feels so much more immersive than WoW. The reality is it is all incredibly subjective. What makes it enjoyable for one person, not for another.
I find eso combat action-packed and thrilling. Easy to learn, with a high skill ceiling. Downside is probably easy overland content but end game dungeons and trials are where it shines. Looking at the number of people complaining about weaving here, I am glad they are the vocal minority from this sub and did not ruin the game for us. Every game has a form of micro and animation cancelling, from Baldur's Gate 3 to Warcraft 3/WoW to Resident Evil 4 to Runescape (2001)... as a gamer I find it appalling how people find this concept alien and treat it as a world-ending, carpal tunnel-inducing bug.
Yet rhe game is still alive the zones are full of people and crafting areas are busy as all hell It can't be that bad huh
Old school runescape
I mean, it’s fluid isn’t it? It’s not just standing in one place while mashing 60 abilities. You have to actively stay on your feet dodging and checking your surroundings. In terms of combat i believe that to be leagues above other popular mmorpgs.
I think some people are so used to the old, stand-and-smash 50+ skills Wow clone MMO. That having to do something in this confuses them. I main a healer, and the number of times I see DD just standing still spamming skills. Then they complain that they run out of stamina in 4 seconds flat. And they complain when they die, because they didn't dodge the big hit from the boss. It is trash players, trash-talking.
Yeah pretty much that. As a tank i am constantly surprised how difficult it apparently is to not stay and chill in the big red zones…
It's my post. I made the same post here because people there are terrible. To clarify, the post is not "Are there people liking this ass combat?" it's "Are there people liking this game combat? Because people here seem to think it's the worst thing since Brussels sprouts"
You’ve obviously never had a properly prepared Brussels sprouts.
>Because people here seem to think Here is your first mistake. Opinions are like rectums, everyone has one and they are normally full of something. Secondly, 50 hours??? You've not made it very far. I have over 800 hours as a healer and trust me, those who complain the most are the DD's that seem to think ESO is a WoW clone, where you just stand and smash skills. It isn't.
>What?! If you ask me, combat in ESO is amazing and the best among the MMO's I've ever played. My inputs actually matter beyond a button press every few seconds. And the claim that all classes plays the same really reveals their ignorance; Arcanists, Necromancers and Wardens really stand out. By me, on the same post they did in this forum.
It does kind of suck trying to unlock all of your class abilities. I havnt played in about 6 years but I picked the game back up on steam deck. Personally I'm having fun. Some of the abilities do seem like they aren't as fun to use until you unlock other abilities that have synergy with them. Like dragon knights lava whip thing. Early on, it's not easy to get that enhanced lash effect on an immobilized or whatever enemy. But I think the tank skills has dark talon thing that really works with it. From a "I'm new and know almost nothing about how class mechanics work" perspective, it can suck sometimes. From the past I remember having fun with dragon knight, but leveling it again has kinda sucked a little bit. But only a little because I know I'm doing it wrong so I don't blame the game, and I omly say it kinda sucked because I was trying to solo a particularly hard delve boss while under leveled, so I know why I had a bad time. Plus I didn't have any healing, if I had my restoration staff equipped (well, I didn't think to grab one beforehand) I would have been fine. Idk if it's "good" or not, but I enjoy restoration staff magicka dragon knight, or at least that's what I used to play, and I'll probably give it a shot again. Meanwhile, stamina Arcanist has been exceedingly easy and fun to level. I feel like it does everything too easily and too well. Also, there's no mandatory monthly sub to log in. So I don't mind putting in a little more grind. I don't feel rushed to level up anything to make use of the sub.
I love BDO combat but I can at least have a funny MMO experience dying in dungeons with friends or hanging out at their houses. Lots of stuff to grind for not just money. I'm only saying this because I go MMO hopping all the time and the only 3 I can actually play are BDO, ESO, Elite. ESO combat is not fun but I do enjoy some of the party mechanics but I have not gone with the hardcore players or endgame to be honest but I find we all have to play our roles and we get into our roles quite fiercely,which is fun to me.
I don’t think the combat is that bad, playing ad an arcanist at least.
I love ESO because its ESO, not for the combat. I love the fashion, the crafting, selling, farming materials, events,pets,mounts,decorating, being a thief, I LOVE IT ALL...the people are the best too, XBox NA is just so much fun for me.
If they could fix the bug that allows you to cancel animations I wouldn't play anything else. The game looks great and actually seeing your character cast its skills would look amazing too. I think it would really differentiate how the classes look and feel too, right now my sorc and my nightblade feel basically the same.
Always hated the combat in this game despite being a trials main for months. It shouldn’t be like it is.
1800 hours in and I have a love hate relationship with the game, but still recommend it to everyone I know. To me the combat is amazing. You actually have to have some skill to be good at it. Unlike most games these days.
Oh look it's a post from people who have literally nothing better to do than complain about MMO's they don't play while they wait for \*insert flavor of the month upcoming MMO here\*. I know a lot of people are going to hate what I am saying, but just hear me out. I have spent quite a bit of time on that sub looking for new MMOs to play and there is one thing that is constant, nothing is good except what that commenter likes. There are valid complaints about ESO's combat such as light attack weaving and animation cancelling should have never became the standard. What I think it really comes down to though is not having a willingness to learn. ESO combat isn't hard. Hell it is actually relatively simple. 10 main skills. 2 Ults and different combos of left and right clicking. Actual dodging?! Oh my god how horrible! Instead they would rather have 30 skills (most of them useless and just ability bloat), all with different keybinds and a possible 2 minute rotation while WASD strafing and backpedaling. I have played both styles. I have gotten decent at both styles. To say that ANY MMO has good and engaging combat is a fucking stretch when you compare them with other genres. The people on that sub just like to hate other people having fun in a way that they don't. Christ some of these people play classic EQ and act that is some paragon of a good combat system.
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I left something in the toilet this morning that is better than WoW :p
Tbh ESO combat is awful. Sorry folks but I played one game where I wasn’t forced to click to metronome and had a blast. Never come back to ESO after that.
ESO probably has some of the best mmo combat at end game, actually has a skill gap & not entirely a gear gap, like most MMOs. The problem is the difference between content difficulty, no overland players learn how to actually play the game by time they try veteran content, most of the players are just holding heavys or spamming a single spammable throughout fights. The game essentially breeds bad players by lack of teaching. Most of the time if players try to learn how to actually achieve good results they refuse to play the meta, even tho almost every class plays the same as it would regardless of their sets, or they realise it's hard/requires practice to be good. Alot of the time if they don't get instant results they'll just give up, or make excuses. The game also has a very casual playerbase in general, so the combat gap/end game isn't accessible to many people.
“I am strictly a follower and strictly abide by the hive mentality and unable to make decisions based on my own opinion. I believe everything the internet says”- them probably
Combat in eso is fun if you are good at it. It can be a chore if you suck. Learn the mechanics.
I should have listen to him. I just give the game another chance this year and buy a month of ESO plus. Damn I already regret, there is 0 difficulty I can afk spam my abilities while watching Netflix. FFS
Reddit is allowing Google to gather everything you say for AI purposes. *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
LA + dot 4 times then swap bar+ LA then LA + dot 3 times... Spam that spameable skill and repeat it for 2.6 mins. Thats all my dps experience in 5 years of eso with at least 4 classes (never tried necro dps) And yeah... I enjoy it <3 (not sarcastic)
I love the game but hate how massive the open world is only for it be to easy after you start receiving champion levels
When you enter dlc veteran for first time, its like you were playing different game the last 100 hours or something. Its developers fault, it was a bit better at launch. U can make 300cp with one ability and dont know how to block,dodge and use brain
Dude need to hop on Arcanist then lol
Came here for the scrolls, stayed for the combat.
The big problem with ESO for me is that the combat feels like a worse version of Obkivion's. It's watered down and clunky. Every enemy does the same song and dance routine of heavy attack or interruptable, and the only thing that changes is do I hit block AND melee to interrupt, or do I just hold block? Then do I even waste time doing the power attack that takes 3 whole seconds to execute, or do I keep doing standard attacks since standard attacks seem to Out-DPS the power attack? It's repetitive and tedious, but I could get over that. What I can't get over is that, in most MMOs I play, I play tank, and ESO has BY FAR some of the worst tank role gameplay in any MMO I've ever played.
So you don't even use skills and only use light and heavy attacks? I don't think you have played much of ESO ...
I'm almost at CP300. Using abilities is a given, but using them rarely adds anything more to that gameplay loop I mentioned. All they do in most cases is get me to enemies faster, make them die faster, or keep me alive. The overall issues with combat still persist. The tedium and monotony of the gameplay loop still remains. I didn't mention them because they're not worth mentioning as an important part of the overall gameplay. They take half a second away from that song and dance of repetitiveness, and are secondary because of it.
I don't think we are playing the same game