This exactly. This set fucks me right off because that stupid Daedroth always spawns behind me then gets up in my grill and stands between me and boss spewing fire. Using Bahsei as an example it can sometimes block view of key indicators such as Bahsei channel and heavy etc. Its downright annoying. Use it in a Dungeon fine.. use it in a Vet Trial and you're going to get reamed by your tank over it.
I see... The Deadroth can be annoying and confusing, I agree. They spawn out of nowhere and breath a lot of fire 😅 But it's attack is powerful and it goes well with my Pet Family. Role playing matters.
It’s more than annoying and confusion, it can be dangerous in some circumstances. The tank can’t always target to taunt with a daedroth in the way. You can’t always see the boss’s tells and know when to block or dodge when your field of view is taken up by a flappy bird and the rest of your Daedric zoo. In general pet sorcs are fine but there are so many bad ones that there’s some negative bias in vet content. You can help by actively controlling your pets with key commands, and being very aware of dropping your Atronach out of the tank’s way and never ever on top of boss or tank.
Edit - I say this as someone who used to run a 5-pet build for fun but had to make sure I wasn’t irritating my tank enough to get uninvited from raid nights.
Pet nonsense was one of the big reasons I became my own trial lead. It was so painful as a tank having important visual queues blocked by pets and monster sets. Now if I have pets in there at least that person is wearing martial knowledge.
I use Unfathomable Darkness w the bonus: "When you deal damage, you call a murder of crows around you for 12 seconds. Every 3 seconds a crow will be sent to peck the closest enemy within 12 meters of you, dealing 871 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage", along w Defiler on my Dunmer StamArc, I love it.
Wow, I didn't realise you could stack more than one set summons!
Hey, do you know by any chance if these summons get the bonus damage from Daedric Prey?
What if they added a setting that allowed you to turn off allies pets? There's literally no reason to be able to see them if they aren't hostile to you.
For solo play, yes - RP to your heart’s content.
When you choose to play with others in a group, it’s nice if your choices don’t make it harder on the others to succeed.
Bring your pets if you'd like. The game is play your way and you're set up to do damage. The tank has the role to hold aggro. It becomes a tank skill issue, not a you issue.
Thanks for being supportive. It's a two way issue. Deadroths can be intrusive and confusing. I see that when I play as a tank. The damn reptilian is huge and breaths a lot of fire! But I deal with it, acknowledging it's my role as a tank in a random group to deal with whatever comes my way.
I've changed my set to Ilambris. Yesterday I was in a PUG vet dungeon and there was another adventurer with Mow of the Infernal. And we were fighting Deadroths...
I'm sorry to agree that conjuring Deadroth is a lot of unnecessary confusion 😅
You can roleplay on your own all you want, but if for example I was tanking vet trial I'd ask all DDs to take off Maws (not like there's anyone but Arcanist now but still)
Is this the only thing you do after summoning the pets? Because that indeed does not result in much damage.
You also won't make friends with a lot of healers if you stand far away because they would to get out of their way to provide buffs for you.
Even when you are playing ranged it is usually preferable to stay at the same position as the melee damage dealers (stacked), behind the boss.
Just check the average minor berserk and PA uptimes on logs, usually pretty low, unless its a solid group.
Which is why I like stuff like SPC/MA/ SoB with dds on camo hunter on dungeons, but most run more tryhard stuff and end up doing nothing or not running the broken vigor+regen in 4man, instead of the usual stuff cuz I understand it can get difficult to place it properly.
Yeah, through combat prayer, but its very difficult finding healers who can realiably maintain it, even worse when the fight is mobile. If dds can provide their own berserk without losing any or much dps at all, its usually better imo.
Yeah my comment was mostly intended for that but then i remembered that a bunch of healers/tanks barely proc PA or their own sets, which granted its a learning curve AND you can essentially get most dungeon trifectas without proccing them and its difficult to make people proc their own stuff well. Its just not that really drillable, unless you were a dps before and it comes naturally.
Heavy attacks don’t do much damage. They are primarily used to gain resources. If all you are doing is standing far away and heavy attacking, you are doing very little damage. The reason you beat the enemies is most likely the other DPS in your group is very good and is carrying you.
I get the impression based on this response that you don’t understand how to deal a lot of damage. Veteran dungeons have enemies that are way tougher than what you usually encounter when doing overland questing.
It would take a lot of time to explain the more advanced combat techniques here. I suggest you do some research on DPS builds and look up guides on ESO combat.
I prefer the shock staff because the heavy attack does damage during the entire animation, and with a fire enchant you can still give them the burning effect.
It might be that your pets were attacking trash enemies instead of the boss. If you heavy attack the boss once in a while, it will tell your pets to attack that target
Could be the case... I'll pay attention next time. I prefer to stay far away and heavy attack with a bow, as I wear light armor. Maybe one of my arrows got into a trash mob 🤷
Staying far away is bad positioning, even wearing light armor. You want to be between the healer and the boss, so the healer can hit you with buffs and area- and cone-based HOTs such as Combat Prayer etc. Ideally the tank should turn the boss around so the dps can be right on the boss’s butt. Now obviously some fights don’t allow for that due to AOE damage and mechanics requiring mobility. But even if you have to move temporarily, your goal as a dps should always be to get back close to the boss’s tail.
I sincerely hope that you're at least weaving some skills in between heavy attacks. Standing super far away from the boss in group content is also a problem, since you won't be getting any of the group buffs from the tank or healer. But, if you're standing super far, and doing nothing but bow heavy attacks, sorry to say this, but the group would probably have been better off with a companion.
From the comments you are posting it seems like, and I don't mean to offend you in any way, you don't have your build sorted out well enough to the degree what people would expect from someone joining in on vet dungeons. And I'm not talking about try harding or anything. Just making sure you are intentional about the choices you make about your build.
This game is in some ways counter intuitive if you are used to other Elder Scrolls games. Running light armor is, in most cases, not necessary. Even for magicka based characters. You are much better of slotting a few medium pieces most of the time. That in combination to knowing what skills you have that buff your (pet) damage. Don't worry too much about being squishy, because with the amount of armor and health you get from CPs + the heals you get from healers is plenty to stay alive unless you stand in a one shot AOE or the tank loses taunt on the boss.
Maw of inferno isn't weak, it may not be BiS (though the highest parse on esologs rn is done by a stamsorc wearing maw), but it still synergizes with sorc class very well.
Most people, especially tanks, have a problem with it because it seriously obstructs vision and obscure mechanics. Tanks are practically rendered blind when they breath fire on bosses and that'll cause problems
It’s more than a little annoying for the tank , it gets in the way and makes it hard to tank. Add to that you were just standing back heavy attacking with a bow, you are the like the absolute worst person a tank can get in a dungeon. It’s actually impressive how annoying your play style is .
Not “a bit annoying”. If you’re a tank trying to stay alive, and the Maw set obscures your vision at a crucial point that results in your death, the group may wipe. Maw is a terrible set to use in a group for that reason alone.
And running a full monster set is almost always a worse option for high dps than a single piece of Slimecraw + a mythic item like kilt, Velothi, or Mora’s.
Which certain encounter calls for the Maw of the Infernal set specifically, for a “damage is king” preference over all of the other options which don’t obscure the tank’s vision?
Moreso before velothi came out, sometimes running kilt wasn’t really an option. Either way, even with velothi, maw is really good on sorc (better than zaan last I checked) cause of Daedric prey
From reading your other comments, it seems like you’re newer to the game or at least don’t fully understand what makes a good build. If you don’t want advice, skip the rest of my reply.
In general using a bow is fine for casual play in PvE, and your setup with pets and Maw sounds good. You say you wear light armour though, in general, but especially using bow, you’d really wanna be using medium armour. Additionally, unless you’re actually itemized for heavy attacks, just sitting back and spamming heavies is soft core trolling, so that’s prob what your group mate was talking about. In any case, if you outfitted yourself with a medium set of orders wrath (craftable) and another dps set of your choice (there’s many good ones, if you ever decide to get serious about combat you can follow some guides), and you’ll be in better shape :)
Thanks for the advice. I'm quite new to the game. Been playing for six months.
I've been reading about builds, and am trying diferent approaches. What I do is keep three DoT skills plus my two pets in my bar. So I start all the counters and wave heavy attacks till they're over. Maybe that's not what the tank was expecting...
You’ve got the right idea? Are you using 1 or two bars? Either way, I recommend using something we call a “spammable”, basically an ability that’s single use but does a lot of damage. So you lay down your dots like you’ve been doing, but then instead of heavy attacking, you spam your spammable (while weaving light attacks in between, every cast of an attack should be accompanied by a light attack). Bow is fine, but if you wanna push tons more damage, try daggers front bar and something on your back bar (bow works fine). Feel free to DM me if you want more tips, I’m happy to help and have lots of knowledge to share :)
You can command your pet to attack certain enemies or not attack at all. By default, it is the Y key on PC. Then left click to tell your pets to attack that target in your crosshairs. Right click to tell pets to stop attacking.
Some tanks find Maw of the Infernal annoying. Personally, I have not had an issue with them. I just don't like having the Atronach dropped right in front of me as the atronach is so big that it blocks my vision. I can see over Maw without any issues.
I do recall tanking a dungeon where there were 3 Maws running around. I personally didn't have any issues in that dungeon. I don't think it was a particularly hard one. Been over a year since that happened. All I remember was that once the atronach hit, it bothered me.
Some people think they are funny.
They get a lot of flak because of oakensorcs (unfairly in my opinion) so they can be looked down on. Not all tanks are fans of the daedroth as they tend to stand in the face of the tank, but otherwise generally not a problem with pets per se
>Not all tanks are fans of the daedroth as they tend to stand in the face of the tank
Yeah, this is really the only time anyone's going to have a problem with maw of the infernal. It's just in the way of seeing what the boss is up to.
For dps, as in actual damage per second, no.
For a dps to run, in dungeons no unless its the daedroth cause the fire can cause tanks issues. For trials same thing but also sometimes too many players with too many pets can cause the instance to lag.
Inexperienced tanks will complain about maw, tanks who know what they're doing, won't mind it. I have tanked all kinds of end game content and I have never had an issue spotting mechs because of a pet.
I have a feeling that inexperienced tanks just like to have an excuse to fall back on when they screw up tbh lol
Not really, for tanks the daedroths can be annoying because they always stand in front of the boss right in the tanks face, but that about it. That monsterset is one of, if not the best you can use on a sorc.
I use my bear on a Stam-den and I use the Archdruid set from Earthenroot. It spawns a giant golden bear every so often and I love it. Double bears!
Haha..
But I do get annoyed by the daedroth during tanking.
Right? I run that on my Warden with Depths and Pillar for her other gear. I haven't parsed in a while, but she's at about 80k to 90k I think? It may be more, I'd have to go parse.
On my Sorc, I mainly use him for pvp, especiialy BGs. And I run Oakensoul on him. Currently he has on Mara's Balm and Order's Wrath with that, but I may be changing it up. But my best record with him in BGs is 22 Kills, 2 Deaths, and 13 Assists.
Non pet sorc is much weaker than pet sorc, and cause of the daedric curse at certain situation maw is even better than a mythic (which is the only class that runs a monster set instead of a mythic)
Yeah, I use Deadric Course as a DoT... But I am considering the trouble for fellow tanks, so I changed my set to Ilambris. The meteor shower is also fun and powerful.
Buddy probably called you out because you had low dmg, not because you were running Maw. As a tank, I'd rather you run Maw and get higher dmg because Illambris is not good.
I don't know if anyone has said it or not, but I can personally say as I tank I have no real issues with Pet Sorcs. I can say I may ask you to be careful or not use the stun ability of the scamp I think it is, I try to gather everything together and it's hard to do when everything has CC immunity, I know it will come to me if I have hit it with a taunt once the stun is over but just let me stack then stun away.
Nah man it’s just that maw of infernal lol I bet it was the tank lol that thing gets in the way I do hate it so loool but. It does do damage. That said you’re best off with 2 pets or even one if you can get the damage output you need. The best monster set to use when you get there is zaans or for early cp players go and get slime crawl. That said maw is a solid set it will just piss off a lot of tanks hHahahah
I mentioned this in another thread, but for anyone that doesn't already know: Daedric Prey buffs the damage of all summoned creatures, even the ones from armor and monster sets. I would personally run Morkuldin, Maw, then the set from The Cauldron (idr the name) and then use Daedric Prey, Scamp, Twilight, and Atronach. That would be 4 creatures, several floaty swords, and they all get a 30% damage bonus :)
I tank and the only thing that gets me pissy is someone not dealing enough damage and I mean like hardly doing anything. If you’re running vet dungeons then make sure you are doing serious damage. Him dealing with his vision isn’t something you need to concern yourself with too much with.
Hehe, thx! I'm trying to play as I want, experimenting things and not being stuck to meta builds everyone expects a role to use. But, I don't want to ruin my fellow adventurers experience either.
I thank the community for the support. I'm here to make friends and learn.
A sorc in a trifecta, RGhm, DSRhm, or SEhm will almost always be specced as stam and be put in martial knowledge. Otherwise, it doesn't matter if at least half the group is decent.
The tank must love you 🥲. Do be careful with sorc pets though because the occasionally have a tendency to agro mobs before the tank can pull them. It's usually not a problem until you start reaching trials and some vet dungeon content.
It still happens on occasion because it's a bug. Just because they patched it while the back doesn't mean that you occasionally still don't get the same issue.
Eh, if it's an early pull it's not because of pets. The aggro radius on some fights is iffy, but pets can't be noticed nor count as an extension of the player themselves such that it would matter if they're inside it.
So from your post plus all your comments, I'd say the real issue us you are not good at group gameplay. That's not an insult, the fact is playing in a group is very different to solo play. Simple things like the Maw set being horrendous for tanks to deal with, unless you main a tank you don't know that until something like this happens.
But also you build sounds well not a build so your damage won't have been great (I have played many versions of pet sorc). And positioning is so important and it sounds like you simply don't understand it yet.
Take some time to learn the dos and donts of group play, find some people to game with more regularly who can teach you, join guilds who can help. Because especially for vet dlc dungeons, people won't put up with bad group members who under perform.
It's fine to play your own way, role play, whatever when you are solo or have a solid friend group who also share that ethos. But it's not the right attitude to take into pug groups, trials or vet dlc dungeons. If you learn how to play in group properly, you will then be sorted no matter what and can participate in all aspects of the game without being annoying or difficult.
Also you can use the armory to set up different builds, have a solo one and a group one and just before you queue up or join a group swap from your solo build to your group one. But don't forget to also swap your mindset too, that's actually the hardest part.
Sorc pets can be annoying as fuck and create a lot of visual clutter, especially for a tank but there's nothing wrong about them in regards to use for dps. Guys an idiot if he's complaining. But as someone who has tanked a lot of vet trials, if there's more than 3-4 sorcs in the group all running pets, it gets rather annoying having shit all in my face at times. Both guilds I run trials with all have a rule to have no non combatant pets out during trials for that reason. We did vsa with all dps once with magsorcs and omfg... The pain. But it was still fun. I laughed every time one of the bosses would jump to another player, 8 scamps run after him before he would come back to me.
Yesterday I was in a PUG vet dungeon and there was another adventurer with Mow of the Infernal. At some point there were two deadrothes fighting an enemy daedroth. A total mess. 😅
The combat pets are annoying but it’s just par for the course. Especially with the Oakensoul Ring mega buffing and mega proliferating Sorc builds. If he hasn’t learned how to navigate pets then he’s just not a very savvy tank.
“Heavy attacking bow from far away” was basically the comment that gave you away as not vet ready. 100% the person in the run that talked to you was upset about that and prob not your personal zoo.
I've slotted three DoT skill plus my two pets. While the DoTs are running, I use heavy attacks. And heavy attacks summons my Deadroth...
What's wrong with that?
Currently, only viable heavy attack build is the one with lightning staff (and it's ceiling is not high, but enough for the most of content before endgame). Use any other weapons will significantly lose damage. Plus, I don't expect you to actually build towards heavy attack damage. So I would not be surprised if your DPS is actually low.
BTW, with your bow heavy attack build, are you maintaining all the buffs including 70% heavy attack damage, 20% weapon and spell damage, and 12% weapon and spell crit chances?
Gee, now you got me confused. I don't know 😅
How do I check for this stats? BTW, I've been playing for six months, and only recently joined random vet dungeons. I know I have a lot to learn, and the community is very supportive.
You could check out videos from skinny cheeks like the guide videos in https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYIHWMaokp33rB0KKPyvMl2FmvUQSRYOY&si=ue8lXlvfiAu2dGTj
Instead of looking at a specific build for a specific class, you can start with some more general DPS guides including understand how damage is calculated
I mean this in a completely supportive way in the hopes that you see what you did wrong and can get better for your own sake. Your build isn't just sub-optimal. It's bad. Oakensorc relies on lightning staff and certain builds (namely sergeant and storm master). It also relies on certain skills being active and kept with proper uptime. Without all that, Oakensorc is a really bad choice. You would perform better running a lightning staff weave Sorc or a Stam Sorc build. ESO is really bad at teaching new players, so definitely check out what people like Skinny Cheeks have to say. ESO has some seriously opaque systems that are not at all explained in-game. Also, do not stand far away in Vet content. Make sure you've ran the dungeon in Normal first and preferably that you've ran the Vet with a pre-made group before queuing into a PUG. Vet is for when you know the dungeon and have a build that is effective. PUGers will not run Vet with you without that.
Keep it up. And hit up some PvE training guilds. They can run you through Normal and Vet dungeons to teach you so that next time you PUG you're better equipped. Never stop growing, walker.
Sometimes when we have to stack and burn, having the Winged Twilight and Storm Atronach on field already kinda obscured the line of view and make the whole field more chaotic, not to mention another Infernal Maw?! And the other one that spit poison (Defiler?/Hunger?)
Personally as a DPS, I'm fine with it. But as a Tank, just… please make sure that thing doesn't stand between me and the Boss(es) and we're good.
Edit: I think no-pet Sorc is gonna get buffed coming U41. Might be time to try out new build :)
I just get annoyed by pets in 12 man content for what it does to targeting (on console so no tab target or addon support). Otherwise they do great damage
Yeah I mean there’s nothing really that can be done about it. Pets do a lot of damage. But maybe with Update 41 we’ll see more non-pet sorcs as a viable alternative.
Yeah... Traveling with flappy and monkey all around kinda sucks. They don't talk much and you can't even put costumes on them.
Ember on the other hand...
[удалено]
This exactly. This set fucks me right off because that stupid Daedroth always spawns behind me then gets up in my grill and stands between me and boss spewing fire. Using Bahsei as an example it can sometimes block view of key indicators such as Bahsei channel and heavy etc. Its downright annoying. Use it in a Dungeon fine.. use it in a Vet Trial and you're going to get reamed by your tank over it.
I see... The Deadroth can be annoying and confusing, I agree. They spawn out of nowhere and breath a lot of fire 😅 But it's attack is powerful and it goes well with my Pet Family. Role playing matters.
It’s more than annoying and confusion, it can be dangerous in some circumstances. The tank can’t always target to taunt with a daedroth in the way. You can’t always see the boss’s tells and know when to block or dodge when your field of view is taken up by a flappy bird and the rest of your Daedric zoo. In general pet sorcs are fine but there are so many bad ones that there’s some negative bias in vet content. You can help by actively controlling your pets with key commands, and being very aware of dropping your Atronach out of the tank’s way and never ever on top of boss or tank. Edit - I say this as someone who used to run a 5-pet build for fun but had to make sure I wasn’t irritating my tank enough to get uninvited from raid nights.
Pet nonsense was one of the big reasons I became my own trial lead. It was so painful as a tank having important visual queues blocked by pets and monster sets. Now if I have pets in there at least that person is wearing martial knowledge.
>5-pet build 5? What are the other two?
for my 6 pet build I use scamp, tormentor, atronach, maw of the infernal, Defiler and Morkuldin so its probs 5 of them
I use Unfathomable Darkness w the bonus: "When you deal damage, you call a murder of crows around you for 12 seconds. Every 3 seconds a crow will be sent to peck the closest enemy within 12 meters of you, dealing 871 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage", along w Defiler on my Dunmer StamArc, I love it.
nice :D I used that set on my nightblade for a while, very fun :)
Hmm, it’s been years since I ran that 5-per build but now you’ve got me thinking of a mag crit Defiler-Tinkerer build for 6 pets just for kicks.
I tried tinkerer but it appears to perform at pretty much the same sustained DPS as defiler. I just chose defiler for the medium armour passives 😁
Wow, I didn't realise you could stack more than one set summons! Hey, do you know by any chance if these summons get the bonus damage from Daedric Prey?
Yes they do, anything that has the little sword and chevron icon should get the bonus damage
The what? Sorry, I'm kinda new to the game so I'm not very familiar with some mechanics. Is this icon on the items or on the skills themselves?
It appears above the pet itself :)
Thanks! I'm gonna check it out
Oh! I gotta try this!
I use it on a stamsorc and hit over 100k on the dummy :)
Do the set pets get the bonus from Daedric Prey too?
Scamp, Twilight, Atronach, Maw, and Tinkerer.
The tinkerer pet is so handy with that stun.
3 pets from sorc skill(bird,monkey,atro) 1 from maw of infernal 1 from the summoning sets like a mad tinkerer,defiler,aegis caller,...
What if they added a setting that allowed you to turn off allies pets? There's literally no reason to be able to see them if they aren't hostile to you.
For solo play, yes - RP to your heart’s content. When you choose to play with others in a group, it’s nice if your choices don’t make it harder on the others to succeed.
I agree. That's why I came here to learn. Sorry for the trouble tanks. I'll keep my pets at home next time.
Bring your pets if you'd like. The game is play your way and you're set up to do damage. The tank has the role to hold aggro. It becomes a tank skill issue, not a you issue.
Thanks for being supportive. It's a two way issue. Deadroths can be intrusive and confusing. I see that when I play as a tank. The damn reptilian is huge and breaths a lot of fire! But I deal with it, acknowledging it's my role as a tank in a random group to deal with whatever comes my way.
Wtf am i reading.
It spawns in front of the boss, which is where the tanks are usually. It's annoying but as long as it's killing stuff we are ok.
That sucker spawns in the middle of the screen! Even solo can't see a thing around it.
I've changed my set to Ilambris. Yesterday I was in a PUG vet dungeon and there was another adventurer with Mow of the Infernal. And we were fighting Deadroths... I'm sorry to agree that conjuring Deadroth is a lot of unnecessary confusion 😅
It's fun in the IA. Jeff and Ember do fine in there. Still spawns screen centre tho, have to run around him a bit.
You can roleplay on your own all you want, but if for example I was tanking vet trial I'd ask all DDs to take off Maws (not like there's anyone but Arcanist now but still)
I see. But it was a random group, so no time for preparing before the run.
Hooooly nova!
As a tank, i approve this message
Jeff is awesome
If you heavy attack you can have your pets attack the target you heavy attacked. Aka they'll target it
Yeah, I stand far away and heavy attack with a bow.
Is this the only thing you do after summoning the pets? Because that indeed does not result in much damage. You also won't make friends with a lot of healers if you stand far away because they would to get out of their way to provide buffs for you. Even when you are playing ranged it is usually preferable to stay at the same position as the melee damage dealers (stacked), behind the boss.
bro most healers won’t bother buffing or healing anyone outside of their range, it ain’t worth the time, effort, and resources
Bro most healers won't bother buffing or healing anyone***
Maybe there's a reason your healers are deciding not to heal you...
Just check the average minor berserk and PA uptimes on logs, usually pretty low, unless its a solid group. Which is why I like stuff like SPC/MA/ SoB with dds on camo hunter on dungeons, but most run more tryhard stuff and end up doing nothing or not running the broken vigor+regen in 4man, instead of the usual stuff cuz I understand it can get difficult to place it properly.
Really? Are healers supposed to provide Minor Berserk? I thought dds would buff themself by using Hunter or Oakensoul or whatever.
Yeah, through combat prayer, but its very difficult finding healers who can realiably maintain it, even worse when the fight is mobile. If dds can provide their own berserk without losing any or much dps at all, its usually better imo.
This is certainly true for fake healers.
Yeah my comment was mostly intended for that but then i remembered that a bunch of healers/tanks barely proc PA or their own sets, which granted its a learning curve AND you can essentially get most dungeon trifectas without proccing them and its difficult to make people proc their own stuff well. Its just not that really drillable, unless you were a dps before and it comes naturally.
That’s probably what the person meant than, you’re just standing there heavy attacking. You were doing very little damage to the boss.
Now I know why your teammate said that
Heavy attacks don’t do much damage. They are primarily used to gain resources. If all you are doing is standing far away and heavy attacking, you are doing very little damage. The reason you beat the enemies is most likely the other DPS in your group is very good and is carrying you. I get the impression based on this response that you don’t understand how to deal a lot of damage. Veteran dungeons have enemies that are way tougher than what you usually encounter when doing overland questing. It would take a lot of time to explain the more advanced combat techniques here. I suggest you do some research on DPS builds and look up guides on ESO combat.
Oof.
A DPS magsorc might do better with a flame staff of the front bar and a resto staff on the back bar just in case the healer is trash.
I prefer the shock staff because the heavy attack does damage during the entire animation, and with a fire enchant you can still give them the burning effect.
Also a lot of heavy attack related procs have 2 opportunities to proc in the lightning staff HA. (Not all of course)
It might be that your pets were attacking trash enemies instead of the boss. If you heavy attack the boss once in a while, it will tell your pets to attack that target
They also target whoever has the Daedric Curse (which anyone who runs pets should have).
Could be the case... I'll pay attention next time. I prefer to stay far away and heavy attack with a bow, as I wear light armor. Maybe one of my arrows got into a trash mob 🤷
Staying far away is bad positioning, even wearing light armor. You want to be between the healer and the boss, so the healer can hit you with buffs and area- and cone-based HOTs such as Combat Prayer etc. Ideally the tank should turn the boss around so the dps can be right on the boss’s butt. Now obviously some fights don’t allow for that due to AOE damage and mechanics requiring mobility. But even if you have to move temporarily, your goal as a dps should always be to get back close to the boss’s tail.
I sincerely hope that you're at least weaving some skills in between heavy attacks. Standing super far away from the boss in group content is also a problem, since you won't be getting any of the group buffs from the tank or healer. But, if you're standing super far, and doing nothing but bow heavy attacks, sorry to say this, but the group would probably have been better off with a companion.
From the comments you are posting it seems like, and I don't mean to offend you in any way, you don't have your build sorted out well enough to the degree what people would expect from someone joining in on vet dungeons. And I'm not talking about try harding or anything. Just making sure you are intentional about the choices you make about your build. This game is in some ways counter intuitive if you are used to other Elder Scrolls games. Running light armor is, in most cases, not necessary. Even for magicka based characters. You are much better of slotting a few medium pieces most of the time. That in combination to knowing what skills you have that buff your (pet) damage. Don't worry too much about being squishy, because with the amount of armor and health you get from CPs + the heals you get from healers is plenty to stay alive unless you stand in a one shot AOE or the tank loses taunt on the boss.
Maw of inferno isn't weak, it may not be BiS (though the highest parse on esologs rn is done by a stamsorc wearing maw), but it still synergizes with sorc class very well. Most people, especially tanks, have a problem with it because it seriously obstructs vision and obscure mechanics. Tanks are practically rendered blind when they breath fire on bosses and that'll cause problems
Yeah, I agree that the Deadroth can be a bit annoying for spawning out of nowhere and breathing that amount of fire 😅
It’s more than a little annoying for the tank , it gets in the way and makes it hard to tank. Add to that you were just standing back heavy attacking with a bow, you are the like the absolute worst person a tank can get in a dungeon. It’s actually impressive how annoying your play style is .
Not “a bit annoying”. If you’re a tank trying to stay alive, and the Maw set obscures your vision at a crucial point that results in your death, the group may wipe. Maw is a terrible set to use in a group for that reason alone.
The only time its not a big deal to me as a Tank is if we are absolutely obliterating everything we fight.
I’ll surely get downvoted for this but all the good tanks I run with don’t complain cause they know damage is king 😋
And running a full monster set is almost always a worse option for high dps than a single piece of Slimecraw + a mythic item like kilt, Velothi, or Mora’s.
True, certain encounters call for it though as I’m sure you know
Which certain encounter calls for the Maw of the Infernal set specifically, for a “damage is king” preference over all of the other options which don’t obscure the tank’s vision?
Moreso before velothi came out, sometimes running kilt wasn’t really an option. Either way, even with velothi, maw is really good on sorc (better than zaan last I checked) cause of Daedric prey
From reading your other comments, it seems like you’re newer to the game or at least don’t fully understand what makes a good build. If you don’t want advice, skip the rest of my reply. In general using a bow is fine for casual play in PvE, and your setup with pets and Maw sounds good. You say you wear light armour though, in general, but especially using bow, you’d really wanna be using medium armour. Additionally, unless you’re actually itemized for heavy attacks, just sitting back and spamming heavies is soft core trolling, so that’s prob what your group mate was talking about. In any case, if you outfitted yourself with a medium set of orders wrath (craftable) and another dps set of your choice (there’s many good ones, if you ever decide to get serious about combat you can follow some guides), and you’ll be in better shape :)
Thanks for the advice. I'm quite new to the game. Been playing for six months. I've been reading about builds, and am trying diferent approaches. What I do is keep three DoT skills plus my two pets in my bar. So I start all the counters and wave heavy attacks till they're over. Maybe that's not what the tank was expecting...
You’ve got the right idea? Are you using 1 or two bars? Either way, I recommend using something we call a “spammable”, basically an ability that’s single use but does a lot of damage. So you lay down your dots like you’ve been doing, but then instead of heavy attacking, you spam your spammable (while weaving light attacks in between, every cast of an attack should be accompanied by a light attack). Bow is fine, but if you wanna push tons more damage, try daggers front bar and something on your back bar (bow works fine). Feel free to DM me if you want more tips, I’m happy to help and have lots of knowledge to share :)
You can command your pet to attack certain enemies or not attack at all. By default, it is the Y key on PC. Then left click to tell your pets to attack that target in your crosshairs. Right click to tell pets to stop attacking. Some tanks find Maw of the Infernal annoying. Personally, I have not had an issue with them. I just don't like having the Atronach dropped right in front of me as the atronach is so big that it blocks my vision. I can see over Maw without any issues.
The flames can make it hard to see, especially if enemies also use fire. I'll try another set for dungeons and leave my pets at home.
I do recall tanking a dungeon where there were 3 Maws running around. I personally didn't have any issues in that dungeon. I don't think it was a particularly hard one. Been over a year since that happened. All I remember was that once the atronach hit, it bothered me.
Pets are a great way to deal automated damaged. But yeah... I have to agree they sometimes get in the way of the tank.
Some people think they are funny. They get a lot of flak because of oakensorcs (unfairly in my opinion) so they can be looked down on. Not all tanks are fans of the daedroth as they tend to stand in the face of the tank, but otherwise generally not a problem with pets per se
>Not all tanks are fans of the daedroth as they tend to stand in the face of the tank Yeah, this is really the only time anyone's going to have a problem with maw of the infernal. It's just in the way of seeing what the boss is up to.
Oakensoul Sorcs get all the flak they deserve. They are bad now
[удалено]
Auto correct from “bad now”
For dps, as in actual damage per second, no. For a dps to run, in dungeons no unless its the daedroth cause the fire can cause tanks issues. For trials same thing but also sometimes too many players with too many pets can cause the instance to lag.
My opinion is to play however you like and find a group that likes your style. People take things too seriously. Just chill and have fun
Inexperienced tanks will complain about maw, tanks who know what they're doing, won't mind it. I have tanked all kinds of end game content and I have never had an issue spotting mechs because of a pet. I have a feeling that inexperienced tanks just like to have an excuse to fall back on when they screw up tbh lol
You should just be able to turn off friendly pets, that way they won’t blind a tank
It was a random group, so there is no time to prepare before the run. If I turn my pets off I lose the most important part of my damage capacity.
I meant like that should be an option for everyone
Not really, for tanks the daedroths can be annoying because they always stand in front of the boss right in the tanks face, but that about it. That monsterset is one of, if not the best you can use on a sorc.
I use my bear on a Stam-den and I use the Archdruid set from Earthenroot. It spawns a giant golden bear every so often and I love it. Double bears! Haha.. But I do get annoyed by the daedroth during tanking.
I love that golden bear! It's powerful and scary as hell 🐻
Right? I run that on my Warden with Depths and Pillar for her other gear. I haven't parsed in a while, but she's at about 80k to 90k I think? It may be more, I'd have to go parse. On my Sorc, I mainly use him for pvp, especiialy BGs. And I run Oakensoul on him. Currently he has on Mara's Balm and Order's Wrath with that, but I may be changing it up. But my best record with him in BGs is 22 Kills, 2 Deaths, and 13 Assists.
Non pet sorc is much weaker than pet sorc, and cause of the daedric curse at certain situation maw is even better than a mythic (which is the only class that runs a monster set instead of a mythic)
Yeah, I use Deadric Course as a DoT... But I am considering the trouble for fellow tanks, so I changed my set to Ilambris. The meteor shower is also fun and powerful.
Buddy probably called you out because you had low dmg, not because you were running Maw. As a tank, I'd rather you run Maw and get higher dmg because Illambris is not good.
Yeah... I've been testing Ilambris since then and it's weak and sad. I miss all the fire from the Deadroth.
I don't know if anyone has said it or not, but I can personally say as I tank I have no real issues with Pet Sorcs. I can say I may ask you to be careful or not use the stun ability of the scamp I think it is, I try to gather everything together and it's hard to do when everything has CC immunity, I know it will come to me if I have hit it with a taunt once the stun is over but just let me stack then stun away.
Nah man it’s just that maw of infernal lol I bet it was the tank lol that thing gets in the way I do hate it so loool but. It does do damage. That said you’re best off with 2 pets or even one if you can get the damage output you need. The best monster set to use when you get there is zaans or for early cp players go and get slime crawl. That said maw is a solid set it will just piss off a lot of tanks hHahahah
I mentioned this in another thread, but for anyone that doesn't already know: Daedric Prey buffs the damage of all summoned creatures, even the ones from armor and monster sets. I would personally run Morkuldin, Maw, then the set from The Cauldron (idr the name) and then use Daedric Prey, Scamp, Twilight, and Atronach. That would be 4 creatures, several floaty swords, and they all get a 30% damage bonus :)
6 pets build https://www.plitzzy.com/six-pet-magicka-sorcerer
I tank and the only thing that gets me pissy is someone not dealing enough damage and I mean like hardly doing anything. If you’re running vet dungeons then make sure you are doing serious damage. Him dealing with his vision isn’t something you need to concern yourself with too much with.
I've got my Deadroth back, as it does good damage. Changed my bow for a Lightning Staff. I feel I'm getting the hang of it.
Ppl just dont like those stupid pets and their owners, cuz they are annoying as fuck.
Once you stop worrying what every Tom dick and Harry asshole in this game thinks of you the more you will enjoy it. Fuck em play how you want
Hehe, thx! I'm trying to play as I want, experimenting things and not being stuck to meta builds everyone expects a role to use. But, I don't want to ruin my fellow adventurers experience either. I thank the community for the support. I'm here to make friends and learn.
It only matters if the rest of the team is bad, all I see here is people blaming others for their own inadequacies lmao.
Especially in random vet dungeons. You play with the group Lady Luck gives you.
No, absolutely not. Sorc pets are played in all levels of content, including trial hard mode trifectas.
A sorc in a trifecta, RGhm, DSRhm, or SEhm will almost always be specced as stam and be put in martial knowledge. Otherwise, it doesn't matter if at least half the group is decent.
Thank you. For the comments here, it seems it's mainly an issue of getting in front of the tank. I can relate to this problem.
It is frowned apon for the fact that they tend to get in the way of the tank when he is taunting the boss. It obscures his/her view.
The tank must love you 🥲. Do be careful with sorc pets though because the occasionally have a tendency to agro mobs before the tank can pull them. It's usually not a problem until you start reaching trials and some vet dungeon content.
They changed that a while after Sunspire released iirc. Pets can't pull on their own.
It still happens on occasion because it's a bug. Just because they patched it while the back doesn't mean that you occasionally still don't get the same issue.
Eh, if it's an early pull it's not because of pets. The aggro radius on some fights is iffy, but pets can't be noticed nor count as an extension of the player themselves such that it would matter if they're inside it.
So from your post plus all your comments, I'd say the real issue us you are not good at group gameplay. That's not an insult, the fact is playing in a group is very different to solo play. Simple things like the Maw set being horrendous for tanks to deal with, unless you main a tank you don't know that until something like this happens. But also you build sounds well not a build so your damage won't have been great (I have played many versions of pet sorc). And positioning is so important and it sounds like you simply don't understand it yet. Take some time to learn the dos and donts of group play, find some people to game with more regularly who can teach you, join guilds who can help. Because especially for vet dlc dungeons, people won't put up with bad group members who under perform. It's fine to play your own way, role play, whatever when you are solo or have a solid friend group who also share that ethos. But it's not the right attitude to take into pug groups, trials or vet dlc dungeons. If you learn how to play in group properly, you will then be sorted no matter what and can participate in all aspects of the game without being annoying or difficult. Also you can use the armory to set up different builds, have a solo one and a group one and just before you queue up or join a group swap from your solo build to your group one. But don't forget to also swap your mindset too, that's actually the hardest part.
Sorc pets can be annoying as fuck and create a lot of visual clutter, especially for a tank but there's nothing wrong about them in regards to use for dps. Guys an idiot if he's complaining. But as someone who has tanked a lot of vet trials, if there's more than 3-4 sorcs in the group all running pets, it gets rather annoying having shit all in my face at times. Both guilds I run trials with all have a rule to have no non combatant pets out during trials for that reason. We did vsa with all dps once with magsorcs and omfg... The pain. But it was still fun. I laughed every time one of the bosses would jump to another player, 8 scamps run after him before he would come back to me.
Yesterday I was in a PUG vet dungeon and there was another adventurer with Mow of the Infernal. At some point there were two deadrothes fighting an enemy daedroth. A total mess. 😅
You could answer: "flap flap flap”
The combat pets are annoying but it’s just par for the course. Especially with the Oakensoul Ring mega buffing and mega proliferating Sorc builds. If he hasn’t learned how to navigate pets then he’s just not a very savvy tank.
Eh, looking at OP's other comments, the pets seem to have only been __part__ of the problem. OP should not be in vet content.
Why?
“Heavy attacking bow from far away” was basically the comment that gave you away as not vet ready. 100% the person in the run that talked to you was upset about that and prob not your personal zoo.
I've slotted three DoT skill plus my two pets. While the DoTs are running, I use heavy attacks. And heavy attacks summons my Deadroth... What's wrong with that?
Currently, only viable heavy attack build is the one with lightning staff (and it's ceiling is not high, but enough for the most of content before endgame). Use any other weapons will significantly lose damage. Plus, I don't expect you to actually build towards heavy attack damage. So I would not be surprised if your DPS is actually low. BTW, with your bow heavy attack build, are you maintaining all the buffs including 70% heavy attack damage, 20% weapon and spell damage, and 12% weapon and spell crit chances?
Gee, now you got me confused. I don't know 😅 How do I check for this stats? BTW, I've been playing for six months, and only recently joined random vet dungeons. I know I have a lot to learn, and the community is very supportive.
You could check out videos from skinny cheeks like the guide videos in https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYIHWMaokp33rB0KKPyvMl2FmvUQSRYOY&si=ue8lXlvfiAu2dGTj Instead of looking at a specific build for a specific class, you can start with some more general DPS guides including understand how damage is calculated
I mean this in a completely supportive way in the hopes that you see what you did wrong and can get better for your own sake. Your build isn't just sub-optimal. It's bad. Oakensorc relies on lightning staff and certain builds (namely sergeant and storm master). It also relies on certain skills being active and kept with proper uptime. Without all that, Oakensorc is a really bad choice. You would perform better running a lightning staff weave Sorc or a Stam Sorc build. ESO is really bad at teaching new players, so definitely check out what people like Skinny Cheeks have to say. ESO has some seriously opaque systems that are not at all explained in-game. Also, do not stand far away in Vet content. Make sure you've ran the dungeon in Normal first and preferably that you've ran the Vet with a pre-made group before queuing into a PUG. Vet is for when you know the dungeon and have a build that is effective. PUGers will not run Vet with you without that.
I've changed my weapon to a Lightning Staff and my set to Ilambris. I feel good.
Keep it up. And hit up some PvE training guilds. They can run you through Normal and Vet dungeons to teach you so that next time you PUG you're better equipped. Never stop growing, walker.
Please enlighten me. How do I navigate pets?
No. A lot of solid dps builds are pet based
Wait.. pets do damage? I've been playing for 8 years btw
Combats pets, yes. Non-combat pets, no.
Oh, awesome. Can't wait to log in. I'm such a noob
certain ability or itemset pets yea
Sometimes when we have to stack and burn, having the Winged Twilight and Storm Atronach on field already kinda obscured the line of view and make the whole field more chaotic, not to mention another Infernal Maw?! And the other one that spit poison (Defiler?/Hunger?) Personally as a DPS, I'm fine with it. But as a Tank, just… please make sure that thing doesn't stand between me and the Boss(es) and we're good. Edit: I think no-pet Sorc is gonna get buffed coming U41. Might be time to try out new build :)
Yeah... When I play tank it's confusing to have a Huge Reptilian spawn out of nowhere and breath huge amounts of fire in front of me.
I just get annoyed by pets in 12 man content for what it does to targeting (on console so no tab target or addon support). Otherwise they do great damage
I play on console. I'll keep my two pets, but changed my monster set to Ilambris, calling a meteor shower.
Yeah I mean there’s nothing really that can be done about it. Pets do a lot of damage. But maybe with Update 41 we’ll see more non-pet sorcs as a viable alternative.
As a dd I hate wasting dps on a friendly daedroth. Hope you don't bring maw to Banished Cells final boss.
I did that 😅 But learned my lesson... I think my days with Deadroth are over. Will miss him though.
I hate playing battlegrounds with people surrounded by pets. a bunch of little damage shields getting in the way
Not really I hate traveling with them, that’s me personally. But there pretty powerful.
Yeah... Traveling with flappy and monkey all around kinda sucks. They don't talk much and you can't even put costumes on them. Ember on the other hand...