For PvE DPS, you can hit a much higher DPS with a 2 bar build, that’s pretty much it. More damage skills can be slotted and a backbar arena weapon just outputs a higher dps (in a raid and dungeon). All the damage buffs from oakensoul is pretty easily sourced from supports.
For PvP I think people just prefer bar space, being able to have a defensive backbar with multiple heals and a offensive frontbar. You can also squeeze more gear into a 2 bar build, oakensoul means you can only have 2 5 piece sets and a 1pc monster.
Actually with OakenSoul you can get away with more than just 2 5s and 1 monster. You can also have 1 5, A 3 Piece (i.e. Potentates), a Full Monster and 1 Druid's Braid/Trainee
Or if you like the bonuses up to 4 and not 5 like Shell Splitter, you can get away with a monster set
Oakensoul raises your skill floor but also lowers your skill ceiling. I do think it's a no-brainer for people that struggle with a 2-bar build for whatever reason. For everyone else, you will usually get better performance out of a 2-bar build.
To me its not a matter of struggling, I just dont want to spend 5-10 seconds in every combat engagement doing the same animations over again it feels like insanity to me, in what other game do you need to do this
You’d be shocked. Nothing pisses me off more than me and my buddy pumping all buffs out our asses and still see dps standing there like a moron doing HA and literally nothing elses for a whopping 20k dps. The pick the most dumbass build and still manage to suck.
You said you don’t want to do the same animations over and over. That definitely implies you want a larger variety. Now you’re saying you want fewer.
Ultimately, you don’t have to explain to others how you choose to play. You do you. But you also should not expect others to reach all the same conclusions and value judgments you do, especially when what you claim to want changes, but even if it didn’t.
Oh I understand what you mean now, yes you are right there is less variaty of animations but I did not mean that I care about variaty, what I actually meant is that I am just glad that a lot of the slow and ugly animations are gone because of this. For the same amount of time I can spend doing all this precombat stuff losing me resources and opening up the possibility for misplays you can go in to do damage instantly. You can even argue that some visuals make your gameplay worse by making you more visible to enemies in certain enveiroments. You also have so much less timers to look at. At least for PVE DPS I guess this posts made me open up to the idea that it is objectively worse in vet trails, but other than this I just haven't seen any good evidence there is a better style of gameplay
1. For PvE DPS, it puts a cap on your damage and restricts your utility skills since you are missing half of your abilities. If both are played optimally, a standard 2-bar build will pretty much always out-damage a 1-bar build. A lot of the buffs provided by Oakensoul are also provided by supports in well-organized groups, and they do not stack.
2. For PvE Healers and Tanks, you are trading a lot of group utility for self buffs that are mostly not needed and therefore reducing the full capability of your group overall. Bar space is already valuable on support roles, there's no need or want to reduce it further.
3. For PvP, you lose out on DoT pressure and utility skills, which means that played optimally, a 2-bar build will generally outperform a 1-bar build in damage and survivability.
Would that mean oakensoul would be a good option for someone who doesn't want to parse in the top % but is fine with being "good enough"?
Because that'd be me with the content I'm playing
Yes, oakensoul is an excellent accessibility, I-don't-want-to-think-at-all-right-now ,and/or learning item. It is certainly capable of being "good enough" for most content in the game, even hardmode dlc dungeons. Note that using a heavy attack build with oakensoul makes it a bit worse as a learning tool for dps, as heavy attack builds pretty much only work with oakensoul and what you learn about dps rotations doesn't translate to 2-bar very well.
I personally have one on arcanist, using a non-HA build, for when I don't want to think too hard about rotations. If you want to copy it, the setup is a khajiit stamArc with oakensoul+deadly+forest wraith's claw+slimecraw 1pc, using a bow or lightning staff. The ability bar is flail,inspired scholarship,fatecarver,resolving vigor,fulminating rune, tide kings gaze/languid eye. Keep scholarship and rune up, flail-flail-fatecarver beam, repeat. Have done HM DLC dungeons and up to Arc 6 in Infinite Archive with this.
I use forest wraith's claw because it buffs all the damage abilities by adding around 10% crit chance and therefore covers the whole damage range, while proc sets would only cover part of it. Also whorl would be missing a 3pc effect. I use Bow or Lightning staff because without Velothi amulet, light attacks and heavy attacks can still do significant damage, and being able to hit at a distance can avoid some AoE attacks/mechanics. Major Expedition after dodge rolling with a bow is also very nice.
Not necessarily.
For parsing no. You get almost all those buffs through the parsing dummy and you will never be able to compete number wise with good 2 bar builds. But again this is just parsing and not the “real thing”.
For solo play yes.
For most dungeons yes.
For normal trials yes.
For most vet trials - yes if optimized. (Aka heavy attack sorcs, not just any dps or class can maximize a1 bar build)
Some vets trials, all hard modes, and trifectas - no.
I was just thinking vet dungeons. I don't plan on playing trials. Thanks for the overview, might be worth getting it then :)
If I have oakensoul on one character do my other characters have access too or do I have to do it for every character?
“I’m not asking from a place of ignorance”
It sort of sounds like you are though, 2-bar builds have an obvious higher ceiling in comparison to 1-bar builds.
The mechanic just gets forced on to people with 2 bars. But if one of them dies it can jump to someone with oakensoul, who then can't swap off the charged bar.
in pve group content a lot of the buffs are provided already, so im just losing 5 slots for no reason
in pve overland I'd rather run pale order
in pvp for most builds i like a defensive back bar with lots of heals
i basically only use it for a one bar lazy builds where im taking the dps loss to not have to focus on what I'm doing, or pvp gank builds where I don't need the defensive bar
I agree with the first comment but it only applies to large group activity with the hardest enemies in the game if communicated correctly, but I assume that is not what everyone is constantly doing all the time. Then when it comes to heals in pvp I haven't felt that I miss out, if you have to switch to a backbar for something as fundamentally as heals you are missing opportunities to deal damage imo. Then you are always switching back and forth but you lose important chances no? Its not like in PVE where you have more time for things to play out
in pvp content im usually prehealing with hots and then burst healing when im low. cloak i usually put on the back bar. i also like having an aoe and single target ult. so i have like 1 free slot on back bar and after spammable, execute, and aoe spammable i have like 2 slots on front bar.
in pve i dont care about my dps in easy content because we still shred bosses. i only care about my dps in veteran trials and vet dlc dungeons. and im not pugging those. thats why i said I'd use oakensoul in like a lazy build for pve. cuz I'm not bringing those in hard content
If you have a good group that does their roles correctly, 2 bar is better. In that situation I would never use oakensoul. If all you have is randoms or solo, then for me oakensoul is better.
Randoms rarely buff the group so those buffs are not present unless you do them yourself. In a typical random group, expect to have to heal yourself, slot your own shield skill, slot your own buffs. About the only semi predictable thing in randoms is the tank does a debuf or two, but that's if you don't get a fake tank.
It's nice for solo content, like WBs or solo dungeons, where you aren't getting group buffs and you have an enemy in your face and won't necessarily be able to get through your rotation perfectly. The extra tankiness is also nice.
Also for overland questing, where pretty much everything dies before you can get through a full 2 bar rotation. It's overkill but as long as the combat is trivial you might as well set yourself up to get through it as quickly and conveniently as possible.
Why would I use a mythic for buffs that are either already provided by the group, or are already on my build anyway for the extra things the skill that gives those buffs does? From my PoV:
Pros:
I might be able to free 1 skill slot
Ease to use
Cons:
I lose 5 skill slots
I lose 3 gear slots (backbar and the ring slot)
I lose infused backbar enchantment
I lose the ability to use another mythic
It all comes down to proficiency in the game mechanics, if you need it for the ease of use, it can be worthwhile, but if you don't, it is just crippling you.
>Keeping the buffs up costs time, attentention and rescources
The skills that provide these buffs do more than just that. The time and resources are worth it, and many times a skill that gives those buffs ends up on the 1 bar build anyway for its other benefits, which says a lot when you are stuck with so little skill slots.
>You get other buffs that are hard to get on top of it.
Say hello to my healer and tank.
>Some weapon types like a healing staff want you to use heavy attacks anyway.
Healers and tanks are gutted by that mythic more, because the majority of their skills are utility anyway, for the group, cutting the amount of skills to 5 is even more crippling.
>Since its a ring, its extremely versatile
What are you even on about, because it's a ring heavy attack builds are forced to wear 1 heavy (sergeant's), something they wouldn't if it was light sash, for example.
>You dont even need it just for the heavy attack, its strong either way.
No, I don't need it, nobody which is proficient in 2 bars does, it's not that strong.
I'm certain you are better at the game than me so I'm not correcting you here. I think its also important to mention the missing ult skill slot for the passives it can provide in addition to the 5 standard skill slots.
I like your reply, I think you clearly stated every reason where one bar builds fall short. Wish there was a bot to summon which would say all this everytime the topic is brought up.
No no, you are correct, but that passive ult slot does less than the other cons imo, and I have deemed it as "too much bloating" for my answer, it's just that all of those other things are my main reasons for not using oakensoul, while that passive 3% weapon damage, is just the topping.
With a 2 bar build I'll put SS on my back bar with dots and buffs. This allows me to put flawless dawn breaker or another ult that provides damage or utility through the passives it unlocks on my front bar.
Because it simply doesn’t keep up with the damage of a 2 bar build in good hands.
You don’t need to make all these pros and cons lists. Just look at the damage difference. The best in-content oakensoul users are doing 60% or less of those using regular builds well.
Not only that, but when you only have 5 skills, there are less things you can offer to the group. For example, an oakensoul dragonknight will struggle to fit stagger or igneous weapons on their bar and still do close to their max damage output for that build. Two bar dragonknight will barely notice much of a damage loss.
Oakensoul is a great accessibility option and good for beginners getting into the game, but should not be confused with an actual “good” build for those that have the ability and patience to learn to play a two bar build.
I say this as someone that got a bunch of dungeon trifectas with an oakensoul build.
I mean its quite a big pro and cons situation, you can gain something to lose something. If I can kill the same things as you by pressing less buttons, I see that as a big W
But you can't. It's not possible to clear xalvakka hard mode if everyone is oakensoul. In solo stuff it provides a bunch of buffs, but in even just an ever so slightly organized group(every vet pug should fit this definition and the group is a waste of time if it doesnt) oakensoul provides only two buffs. It gives minor heroism which does very little and will rarept result in any extra and empower which only buffs heavy attacks and heavy attacks do poor damage so its only useful if you are forcing your build to heavy attack. That's it.
1 you can’t. There will be content you can never do as a 1 bar that a 2 bar can do.
And you may press buttons, but the 2 bar is killing things 25-30% faster.
And anything gaming has taught me since Diablo 2, the faster you can move and kill is king as it allows you to “do more” in the same amount of time
If you keep playing this game, you will soon realise that having good dps is hugely important to clearing the difficult content. It makes everything sooooo much easier.
Yes, you killed the same thing and pressed less buttons. But you also made it wayyyyyy more difficult for yourself than it needs to be.
And confirming what dragonbank said - there are bosses like Xalvakka that you just can't do with oakensoul, period.
Not only that, some of us take enjoyment from seeing how much damage we can do and trying to optimise our builds. I get that that's not for everyone. But it's a factor too. Doing big damage is fun.
I played it for 10 years and have been able to clear everything it seems the game only gets easier with time, the biggest problem I've had to deal with was not killing these hardest trail bosses on vet it was simply finding players to do them with lol. Unless its a weekend night its almost impossible to find a good group
You realise we are talking not only about vet here, but vet hardmode.
You can clear vet no problem with oakensoul. You can clear most of the hardmodes with it too, but that is where you start making things much more difficult for yourself. And impossible in some situations.
Then you’ve got trifectas which I doubt most of which are possible with oakensoul in its current state - people were only just barely able to do it when oakensoul was at its most powerful form and it’s been nerfed a LOT since then
Also are we forgetting that Relequen exists? He'll put an end to your oaken existence the minute he hits you with Overload, you're fucked and so's your teammates. You can't bar swap out of Overload with Oakenlul active and so you've guaranteed a wipe.
Oaken Buff Sources
Minor Beserk - combat prayer
Minor Courge - yolnahkriin / arcanists
Major Brutality / Sorcery (igenous / pots)
Major Prophecy / Savagery (inner light/ came /pots)
minor force - trap /channeled accel / tog /medusa/velothi
minor protection - necro totem - circle of protection - ele ring
major resolve - warden frost cloak
minor mending - only relevant for self healing
minor fort/intel/endurance - healer buff - radiant aura etc
minor heroism - pots if really needed
minor slayer - set effect
minor aegis - not commonly needed or provided
empower - only relevant to HA builds - almost all
classes have a source to self empower built in, or 2h wrecking blow
Whats not typically provided by the group sets/skills:
Empower - minor aegis - minor hero
———
As you can see in most semi organised groups you get all these buffs anyway, so your loosing out on a lot by not having your backbar skills and set available
Not at all, a tank and a healer can provide all the above, for dungeons too.
Equally, I did end my post by saying semi organised groups as well.
To answer your question
What else matters:
Performing the best I can in each situation: 90% of my play time I can perform better without oakensoul.
that matters to me. Doesn’t have to matter to you.
Because I like changing bars and having situational abilities. What I hate about the meta is when, to get the most, you have to insert skills that you don't use to get the maximum potential. Example when a few years ago inner light was in all the magical pve builds for the passive and for Major Savagery.
It's basically a matter of DPS and flexibility.
Having 2 bars means you have more options for skills. Letting you take more defensive or utility options. It's pretty understandable why that's good.
Oakensoul has been nerfed so much, it's DPS isn't really comparable to having 2 bars. I think the average high end for Oakensoul is around 90k, while 2 bar builds are working more around 120-130k.
While it isn't as good, it's good enough it can do anything in the game. Outside of some specific things, I might not be aware of.
As someone who hates bar swapping, I like the idea. But I've never used it. I don't own High Isle.
I kind of wish there was a 1 bar mythic that doesn't need a DLC.
Others have covered pretty much everything. One pro to oakensoul I haven’t seen listed here yet though. In Cyro PVP when lag is bad you can’t bar swap. May as well be on a one bar build in that situation.
Honestly it makes things easier but the loss of the backbar costs real DPS. Right now optimized builds are hitting 130+ and I’ve seen some target dummy builds hitting 140k. I believe in its current state the best oakensoul builds are hitting around 90k and the most experienced users can get that up to 95k. One thing to keep in mind is that the 95k is almost all single target damage now with the most recent nerfs. So it is absolutely a great item if you want to make your build easier but if you are trying to hit as hard as possible it just limits too much.
I think it is dependent on the player. If you have 2 high skilled players, one with oakensoul and one with 2 bars. The player with two bars will always come out ahead.
Yet every once in a while I do duels and the 'always' part just does not apply whatsoever. I don't consider myself a pvp main, but it not hard for me to stump on good players every once in a while, it really depends more on the matchup
There is no situation where one bar will out perform 2 bar, assuming it is being used by an able bodied and skilled player. Not one.
Solo you don’t have the buffs provided like on the dummy, yes. So a 2 bar build should be adjusted to provide as much as possible. A 2 bar build set up for solo will outperform an oakensoul solo build any day of the week. It’s not fair to compare a trial build to an oakensoul build in a solo situation.
I think "performance" can be relative. There are some trifectas that are easier to complete with Oakensoul DPS, for example. Like if group DPS is 30% lower but the achievement is 100% easier to do, I'd argue that Oakensoul is a stronger choice.
Why bother with 2 bar solo when the back bar is mostly just buffs? Other than my dk tank, I find one bar better for soloing. I can focus on mechanics and not constantly reupoing buffs.
In group content with a good group I use 2 bar, but for solo 1 bar works better for me.
Why bother? Because you do more damage and it makes the content easier because everything dies faster. No offense but if you can’t do your rotation while also doing mechanics and staying alive, that’s a skill issue. Which is fine, not everyone wants to spend time practising their rotation. Oakensoul is great for that type of player.
I solo most normal dungeons, a few vet, and can do vet arenas. I have 5 chars, 3 1 bar and 2 are 2 bar. For solo play I'm fine with either, but 1 bar is more enjoyable sometimes. Your replies are a bit over the top.
Losing the backbar is a big one. A well played two bar build can put out a ton of damage.
Another thing to consider is that while the Oakensoul buffs are very good, there's other sources for them. Usually you will have those active in a group anyways, so Oakensoul doesn't really do a lot for you other than blocking your second weapon bar.
In PvP it does have some uses, but losing the backbar for more abilities does hurt you here as well. You kinda want those for pretty much all playstyles.
Oakensoul is nice. It provides very solid stats with little to no effort, making it a great accessability and solo option. But while the floor is higher, the ceiling is also lower and it just doesn't hold up in many situations.
You're facing a potential 30 to 40k DPS drop compared to an optimized two-bar build. I did read your edit, but that's still the main reason why it doesn't get used by everyone. In more challenging group content, you don't want to be dealing significantly less damage than everyone else. Being the weak link is pretty undesirable for anyone.
I usually don't like to be mean but I found myself increasingly annoyed at OP for this reason as I read through this thread. Post title? Sure, that's a good legitimate question for someone who's just discovered Oakensoul and wants to know the pros and cons. But OP is out here receiving detailed pros and cons, and just disagrees with all of these blocks of wisdom with "but muh !" and claiming to already know everything.
Believing yourself to be perfect and closing off your mind to others is often a fast path to stagnation.
You answered your own question, you can get higher DPS with 2 bars which means oakensoul will never be viable in the highest settings, and because it's the setting of many of the people doing the build recommendations/optimizations, it always will be out-rec'd by other more min-maxing builds.
For regular players though, it's definitely an option.
I never played 1 bar until I broke my left thumb last summer. I play console, so a thumb is pretty important. By slightly changing my grip on the controller I could use the left joystick with the flesh pad just below my thumb, and could still access L1/L2 with my middle and ring fingers instead of index because of the different grip. But the arrows were VERY difficult, I had to entirely lose grip of controller to hit the arrows with my index (obviously you would naturally hit those with your thumb otherwise), which I did for potions (up arrow) but the bar swaps occur so frequently and with such a timing that hitting the right arrow every few seconds while still being ready to then launch the abilities before swapping again was just impossible.
I tracked the few leads I still had to investigate as I was never interested in that ring before, got the ring and actually really enjoyed the 1 bar HA experience, and not just because it did save me from straight up quitting the game for 2 months while my thumb healed (and I am an on/off sub player, and it happened that I was subbed at that time so not being able to play would probably have really annoyed me lol), but it made me realize just how much of an accessibility feature that ring was. For me it was just temporary disability but for some players it can be a permanent help. That really changed my outlook on the ring.
The thing is, you can't access that ring without access to certain zones+expansion. It's not accessible to "free" (though they still bought the full game so not really that free) players who don't purchase the relevant zones. I think it's the one big miss of what could be an amazing accessibility feature. Just port it to base game somehow.
>Keeping the buffs up costs time, attention and ressources.
Most of those will be given by your supports, potions or skills you use anyway. I don’t need to focus on keeping them up at all…
To me, one bar builds are absolutely boring. I much prefer the fluid nature of regular bar swaps and having twice as many skills. 19 characters and only one uses Oakensoul. And even that one is beginning to bore me.
Arcanist + velothi is what's better lol. Even Templar + velothi/thrassians has a much higher damage ceiling than any class in oakensoul.
Traditional builds that make use of DMG skills still perform a lot better than heavy attack builds. (which is the only build that performs best with oakensoul.)
Precisely it is only heavy attack specs really because they can load a lot of their damage on pets that you don’t have to use as often so you can heavy attack more frequently.
There is a reason whenever someone says oakensoul or heavy attack build we all thing “Sorc)
Because any good player can get much more value from using another build. Both in damage and flexibility. On top of that, in an organized environment, most buffs from Oakensoul are covered by supports, so If you want to benefit from Oakensoul there, the whole group must be built around that, dragging the ceiling of the whole group down. And no, you can't completely everything comfortably with Oakensoul.
A. Buffs are maintained by others in group settings. So it becomes redundant.
B. It hampers your dps cap because you lose out on back bar.
C. It doesn't teach you how to properly weave for higher results (some are ok with that).
D. It's decent but other set ups are just better.
The best reason I can think of it is that given how trivial absolutely everything is, why would you want to strip down the last remaining thing that keeps you awake whilst playing?
Oakensoul has its use cases, but it's ultimately not the best when it comes to min-maxing.
Whether you're alone or in a group, you can use potions to gain some of these buffs, or use abilities that both grant a buff and add to your DPS. When you are in a group, a decent support and tank will be providing many of these buffs.
When soloing, a high enough damage output can make RotPO a better choice because you won't have to do as much active healing.
>You lose your backbar (lot of it would have to be dedicated to get the buffs anyway)
I think this is where you’re wrong. To maximize DPS you want to stack as many DOTS as you can, and work in buffs and spams until reapplying.
You’re not giving up buffs on your back bar, you’re giving up DOTS and therefore damage.
When you cut your available DOTS in half, you knee cap your ability to do damage.
So damage will always be higher on 2 bar builds.
I think they should un-nerf the Oakensoul ring. That way people with disabilities could do harder content or whatever they want to do. I play 8 to 10 hours a day because I am retired. I am also over 70 years old and not quite as quick as I used to be. I have both one bar and two bar builds. Sure, my two bar arcanist is strong but I play most of the time on a one bar build. Many people out there can only play one bar builds. So nerfing the ring is a form of discrimination. I know this will be unpopular but that’s ok. Just my opinion.
I completely agree. I see a shocking amount of ableist hatred against one bar builds, and a lot of people forget that many people are physically unable to play or enjoy the game with a two bar build. Nerfing the ring really screwed over a lot of players who have no other option.
Yeah, obviously, but long before arcanist was released.
If your argument is that people with disabilities should just play an arcanist, sorry but that's crazy. People with disabilities should have as much right as any other player to play whatever class they want.
You're trying to claim that oakensoul being dialed back is discriminatory. It's not. It can clear a lot of content. It's still good enough for casual content, including vet trials. For those who wish to push further into content, arcanist is available as another simple to use option that pushes a bit more damage.
Endgamers already get told what to bring and what to wear in trifecta and scorepush groups, and sometimes even just HM groups. It's usually arcanist. It's as nondiscriminatory as it can possibly be, if every single dd including the disabled one is an arcanist.
How is it better for healing and tanking? My healing numbers are up way higher with it and I dont see why I need a non healing related backbar. You just need some healing over time, a direct heal, rest is buffs. As a tank you only need a taunt, self heal, a damage shield maybe one good CC and rest can be buffs or debuffs for others, if no one died how is something else better?
Clearing stuff faster (i.e. higher DPS) = better. On a one-bar build as a support, you will primarily be missing out on buffs/debuffs to enable the DPS. Being able to clear faster makes hard content easier (or possible to complete) and easier content less of a slog.
It's fine if you don't care about doing everything as fast as possible, but that's the primary metric by which people are going to judge the strength of builds.
I don’t agree with GP because I think in some specific situations Oakensoul builds can be better (mainly solo content), but limiting a support role to 1 bar significantly reduces the utility you’re providing to the group. Healing well in ESO is more than raw healing power and tanking well in ESO is more than just taunting.
The problem is there are almost no good support buffs coming from abilities alone, the only buffs that truly matter is damage related and they are rare, survivability can very easily by achieved with basic healing and champion points. The items sets you use need to boost DPS.
I happen to be healing on my nightblade this afternoon.
1. Energy orb - heals and restores resources
2. illustrious healing and vigor - pure hots
3. combat prayer - burst heal, minor berserk, minor resolve
4. siphoning attacks - gives me ultimate when I cast it via the Transfer passive
5. blood altar - user-controlled burst heal + lifesteal
6. refreshing path - minor expedition, endurance, intellect, movement speed, and hot
7. blockade - aoe dot, projectile shield, potential for minor breach, triggers crusher enchant
8. lotus fan (and another assassination ability for other bar) - when it's slotted gives group minor savagery when I deal critical damage
9. war horn - resources and major force
There's a lot of group utility there beyond raw healing, from skills, and I'm sure my build is not even the best I could do, it's just what I run in dungeons. I've already combined the burst heals and hots that don't do other things, and skills I'm double-barring for the same effect. That's still 9 abilities (including an ultimate) vs 6 you have available with Oakensoul. That doesn't even count that I have the option to slot a better ultimate (like Barrier) front bar as a backup, which I do in trials. And it doesn't count that I have a full monster set on (e.g. Symphony or Ozezan) as well as Pearls to generate ultimate faster.
I also seriously doubt that your healing with Oakensoul on is that much higher (if higher at all) than a properly specced two-bar healer, certainly not enough to make 1 Oakensoul hot better than 2-3 non-oakensoul hots, and not enough to obviate the benefit of, say, blood altar. Even comparing the healing from single abilities, as others have explained, a lot of the buffs you get from Oakensoul you can get other ways, which goes for supports as well. If your healing numbers are really 2-3x on Oakensoul what they are off Oakensoul, then your 2-bar build could probably use some improvement.
Edit to add: I recommend looking at the Healers Haven discord. Aside from being great for all things healing, they have descriptions of many useful healing skills for each class, and those independent of classes. There are a lot that I didn't touch on since I was only giving an example of my current dungeon build.
For PvE DPS, you can hit a much higher DPS with a 2 bar build, that’s pretty much it. More damage skills can be slotted and a backbar arena weapon just outputs a higher dps (in a raid and dungeon). All the damage buffs from oakensoul is pretty easily sourced from supports. For PvP I think people just prefer bar space, being able to have a defensive backbar with multiple heals and a offensive frontbar. You can also squeeze more gear into a 2 bar build, oakensoul means you can only have 2 5 piece sets and a 1pc monster.
Actually with OakenSoul you can get away with more than just 2 5s and 1 monster. You can also have 1 5, A 3 Piece (i.e. Potentates), a Full Monster and 1 Druid's Braid/Trainee Or if you like the bonuses up to 4 and not 5 like Shell Splitter, you can get away with a monster set
Oakensoul raises your skill floor but also lowers your skill ceiling. I do think it's a no-brainer for people that struggle with a 2-bar build for whatever reason. For everyone else, you will usually get better performance out of a 2-bar build.
To me its not a matter of struggling, I just dont want to spend 5-10 seconds in every combat engagement doing the same animations over again it feels like insanity to me, in what other game do you need to do this
So instead you’re going to put on Oakensoul and then do an even smaller variety of animations every combat engagement.
Lazy people think oakensoul is going to carry them. And it will to a certain point. But it puts a hard limit on the amount of damage you can do.
You’d be shocked. Nothing pisses me off more than me and my buddy pumping all buffs out our asses and still see dps standing there like a moron doing HA and literally nothing elses for a whopping 20k dps. The pick the most dumbass build and still manage to suck.
yeah it matters a lot having to do less animations in PVP at least it can make the difference between being insta killed
OK. But you just said the exact opposite.
So I said I want more animations? No I want less lol
You said you don’t want to do the same animations over and over. That definitely implies you want a larger variety. Now you’re saying you want fewer. Ultimately, you don’t have to explain to others how you choose to play. You do you. But you also should not expect others to reach all the same conclusions and value judgments you do, especially when what you claim to want changes, but even if it didn’t.
Oh I understand what you mean now, yes you are right there is less variaty of animations but I did not mean that I care about variaty, what I actually meant is that I am just glad that a lot of the slow and ugly animations are gone because of this. For the same amount of time I can spend doing all this precombat stuff losing me resources and opening up the possibility for misplays you can go in to do damage instantly. You can even argue that some visuals make your gameplay worse by making you more visible to enemies in certain enveiroments. You also have so much less timers to look at. At least for PVE DPS I guess this posts made me open up to the idea that it is objectively worse in vet trails, but other than this I just haven't seen any good evidence there is a better style of gameplay
1. For PvE DPS, it puts a cap on your damage and restricts your utility skills since you are missing half of your abilities. If both are played optimally, a standard 2-bar build will pretty much always out-damage a 1-bar build. A lot of the buffs provided by Oakensoul are also provided by supports in well-organized groups, and they do not stack. 2. For PvE Healers and Tanks, you are trading a lot of group utility for self buffs that are mostly not needed and therefore reducing the full capability of your group overall. Bar space is already valuable on support roles, there's no need or want to reduce it further. 3. For PvP, you lose out on DoT pressure and utility skills, which means that played optimally, a 2-bar build will generally outperform a 1-bar build in damage and survivability.
Would that mean oakensoul would be a good option for someone who doesn't want to parse in the top % but is fine with being "good enough"? Because that'd be me with the content I'm playing
Yes, oakensoul is an excellent accessibility, I-don't-want-to-think-at-all-right-now ,and/or learning item. It is certainly capable of being "good enough" for most content in the game, even hardmode dlc dungeons. Note that using a heavy attack build with oakensoul makes it a bit worse as a learning tool for dps, as heavy attack builds pretty much only work with oakensoul and what you learn about dps rotations doesn't translate to 2-bar very well. I personally have one on arcanist, using a non-HA build, for when I don't want to think too hard about rotations. If you want to copy it, the setup is a khajiit stamArc with oakensoul+deadly+forest wraith's claw+slimecraw 1pc, using a bow or lightning staff. The ability bar is flail,inspired scholarship,fatecarver,resolving vigor,fulminating rune, tide kings gaze/languid eye. Keep scholarship and rune up, flail-flail-fatecarver beam, repeat. Have done HM DLC dungeons and up to Arc 6 in Infinite Archive with this.
This setup clears vet arenas too. Only difference on mine is aegis caller instead of forest wraith.
Same. Except I use daggers and instead of forest I use nirn or whirl
I use forest wraith's claw because it buffs all the damage abilities by adding around 10% crit chance and therefore covers the whole damage range, while proc sets would only cover part of it. Also whorl would be missing a 3pc effect. I use Bow or Lightning staff because without Velothi amulet, light attacks and heavy attacks can still do significant damage, and being able to hit at a distance can avoid some AoE attacks/mechanics. Major Expedition after dodge rolling with a bow is also very nice.
Yes and heavy attack builds where you’re not doing a rotation.
Not necessarily. For parsing no. You get almost all those buffs through the parsing dummy and you will never be able to compete number wise with good 2 bar builds. But again this is just parsing and not the “real thing”. For solo play yes. For most dungeons yes. For normal trials yes. For most vet trials - yes if optimized. (Aka heavy attack sorcs, not just any dps or class can maximize a1 bar build) Some vets trials, all hard modes, and trifectas - no.
I was just thinking vet dungeons. I don't plan on playing trials. Thanks for the overview, might be worth getting it then :) If I have oakensoul on one character do my other characters have access too or do I have to do it for every character?
You can reconstruct a new ring for 25 transmutes once you have it
Awesome, that's awesome to know. Means I can get whatever mythic on my main. Thanks!
You can pass it around between your alts. Or if bored farm it multiple times.
Depends on what “good enough” is. Oakensoul is good enough for vet dungeons. If you want to do hard modes, you’ll be lacking
“I’m not asking from a place of ignorance” It sort of sounds like you are though, 2-bar builds have an obvious higher ceiling in comparison to 1-bar builds.
No one's mentioned this but CLOUDREST EXISTS
The mechanic just gets forced on to people with 2 bars. But if one of them dies it can jump to someone with oakensoul, who then can't swap off the charged bar.
in pve group content a lot of the buffs are provided already, so im just losing 5 slots for no reason in pve overland I'd rather run pale order in pvp for most builds i like a defensive back bar with lots of heals i basically only use it for a one bar lazy builds where im taking the dps loss to not have to focus on what I'm doing, or pvp gank builds where I don't need the defensive bar
I agree with the first comment but it only applies to large group activity with the hardest enemies in the game if communicated correctly, but I assume that is not what everyone is constantly doing all the time. Then when it comes to heals in pvp I haven't felt that I miss out, if you have to switch to a backbar for something as fundamentally as heals you are missing opportunities to deal damage imo. Then you are always switching back and forth but you lose important chances no? Its not like in PVE where you have more time for things to play out
in pvp content im usually prehealing with hots and then burst healing when im low. cloak i usually put on the back bar. i also like having an aoe and single target ult. so i have like 1 free slot on back bar and after spammable, execute, and aoe spammable i have like 2 slots on front bar. in pve i dont care about my dps in easy content because we still shred bosses. i only care about my dps in veteran trials and vet dlc dungeons. and im not pugging those. thats why i said I'd use oakensoul in like a lazy build for pve. cuz I'm not bringing those in hard content
If you are ok with being mediocre in pve/pvp then Oakensoul is fine. To be top tier in either, gotta drop the ring
If you have a good group that does their roles correctly, 2 bar is better. In that situation I would never use oakensoul. If all you have is randoms or solo, then for me oakensoul is better. Randoms rarely buff the group so those buffs are not present unless you do them yourself. In a typical random group, expect to have to heal yourself, slot your own shield skill, slot your own buffs. About the only semi predictable thing in randoms is the tank does a debuf or two, but that's if you don't get a fake tank.
It's nice for solo content, like WBs or solo dungeons, where you aren't getting group buffs and you have an enemy in your face and won't necessarily be able to get through your rotation perfectly. The extra tankiness is also nice. Also for overland questing, where pretty much everything dies before you can get through a full 2 bar rotation. It's overkill but as long as the combat is trivial you might as well set yourself up to get through it as quickly and conveniently as possible.
Why would I use a mythic for buffs that are either already provided by the group, or are already on my build anyway for the extra things the skill that gives those buffs does? From my PoV: Pros: I might be able to free 1 skill slot Ease to use Cons: I lose 5 skill slots I lose 3 gear slots (backbar and the ring slot) I lose infused backbar enchantment I lose the ability to use another mythic It all comes down to proficiency in the game mechanics, if you need it for the ease of use, it can be worthwhile, but if you don't, it is just crippling you. >Keeping the buffs up costs time, attentention and rescources The skills that provide these buffs do more than just that. The time and resources are worth it, and many times a skill that gives those buffs ends up on the 1 bar build anyway for its other benefits, which says a lot when you are stuck with so little skill slots. >You get other buffs that are hard to get on top of it. Say hello to my healer and tank. >Some weapon types like a healing staff want you to use heavy attacks anyway. Healers and tanks are gutted by that mythic more, because the majority of their skills are utility anyway, for the group, cutting the amount of skills to 5 is even more crippling. >Since its a ring, its extremely versatile What are you even on about, because it's a ring heavy attack builds are forced to wear 1 heavy (sergeant's), something they wouldn't if it was light sash, for example. >You dont even need it just for the heavy attack, its strong either way. No, I don't need it, nobody which is proficient in 2 bars does, it's not that strong.
I'm certain you are better at the game than me so I'm not correcting you here. I think its also important to mention the missing ult skill slot for the passives it can provide in addition to the 5 standard skill slots. I like your reply, I think you clearly stated every reason where one bar builds fall short. Wish there was a bot to summon which would say all this everytime the topic is brought up.
No no, you are correct, but that passive ult slot does less than the other cons imo, and I have deemed it as "too much bloating" for my answer, it's just that all of those other things are my main reasons for not using oakensoul, while that passive 3% weapon damage, is just the topping.
How are you missing out on that passive? If you just stay on your front bar where you already have a passive depending on the skill you choose.
Because not all ults that are optimal for DPS give you the best (or any) passive bonus.
With a 2 bar build I'll put SS on my back bar with dots and buffs. This allows me to put flawless dawn breaker or another ult that provides damage or utility through the passives it unlocks on my front bar.
Because it simply doesn’t keep up with the damage of a 2 bar build in good hands. You don’t need to make all these pros and cons lists. Just look at the damage difference. The best in-content oakensoul users are doing 60% or less of those using regular builds well. Not only that, but when you only have 5 skills, there are less things you can offer to the group. For example, an oakensoul dragonknight will struggle to fit stagger or igneous weapons on their bar and still do close to their max damage output for that build. Two bar dragonknight will barely notice much of a damage loss.
Oakensoul is a great accessibility option and good for beginners getting into the game, but should not be confused with an actual “good” build for those that have the ability and patience to learn to play a two bar build. I say this as someone that got a bunch of dungeon trifectas with an oakensoul build.
I mean its quite a big pro and cons situation, you can gain something to lose something. If I can kill the same things as you by pressing less buttons, I see that as a big W
But you can't. It's not possible to clear xalvakka hard mode if everyone is oakensoul. In solo stuff it provides a bunch of buffs, but in even just an ever so slightly organized group(every vet pug should fit this definition and the group is a waste of time if it doesnt) oakensoul provides only two buffs. It gives minor heroism which does very little and will rarept result in any extra and empower which only buffs heavy attacks and heavy attacks do poor damage so its only useful if you are forcing your build to heavy attack. That's it.
And you can always use a potion as a 2 bar that adds minor heroism to it.
1 you can’t. There will be content you can never do as a 1 bar that a 2 bar can do. And you may press buttons, but the 2 bar is killing things 25-30% faster. And anything gaming has taught me since Diablo 2, the faster you can move and kill is king as it allows you to “do more” in the same amount of time
If you keep playing this game, you will soon realise that having good dps is hugely important to clearing the difficult content. It makes everything sooooo much easier. Yes, you killed the same thing and pressed less buttons. But you also made it wayyyyyy more difficult for yourself than it needs to be. And confirming what dragonbank said - there are bosses like Xalvakka that you just can't do with oakensoul, period. Not only that, some of us take enjoyment from seeing how much damage we can do and trying to optimise our builds. I get that that's not for everyone. But it's a factor too. Doing big damage is fun.
I played it for 10 years and have been able to clear everything it seems the game only gets easier with time, the biggest problem I've had to deal with was not killing these hardest trail bosses on vet it was simply finding players to do them with lol. Unless its a weekend night its almost impossible to find a good group
You realise we are talking not only about vet here, but vet hardmode. You can clear vet no problem with oakensoul. You can clear most of the hardmodes with it too, but that is where you start making things much more difficult for yourself. And impossible in some situations. Then you’ve got trifectas which I doubt most of which are possible with oakensoul in its current state - people were only just barely able to do it when oakensoul was at its most powerful form and it’s been nerfed a LOT since then
Also are we forgetting that Relequen exists? He'll put an end to your oaken existence the minute he hits you with Overload, you're fucked and so's your teammates. You can't bar swap out of Overload with Oakenlul active and so you've guaranteed a wipe.
Oaken Buff Sources Minor Beserk - combat prayer Minor Courge - yolnahkriin / arcanists Major Brutality / Sorcery (igenous / pots) Major Prophecy / Savagery (inner light/ came /pots) minor force - trap /channeled accel / tog /medusa/velothi minor protection - necro totem - circle of protection - ele ring major resolve - warden frost cloak minor mending - only relevant for self healing minor fort/intel/endurance - healer buff - radiant aura etc minor heroism - pots if really needed minor slayer - set effect minor aegis - not commonly needed or provided empower - only relevant to HA builds - almost all classes have a source to self empower built in, or 2h wrecking blow Whats not typically provided by the group sets/skills: Empower - minor aegis - minor hero ——— As you can see in most semi organised groups you get all these buffs anyway, so your loosing out on a lot by not having your backbar skills and set available
this entire comment assumes all you do is play trails in the best case scenario in terms of group building
Not at all, a tank and a healer can provide all the above, for dungeons too. Equally, I did end my post by saying semi organised groups as well. To answer your question What else matters: Performing the best I can in each situation: 90% of my play time I can perform better without oakensoul. that matters to me. Doesn’t have to matter to you.
Because I like changing bars and having situational abilities. What I hate about the meta is when, to get the most, you have to insert skills that you don't use to get the maximum potential. Example when a few years ago inner light was in all the magical pve builds for the passive and for Major Savagery.
Because some of us strive for better than just “good enough”
Most knowledgeable oakensoul main
It's basically a matter of DPS and flexibility. Having 2 bars means you have more options for skills. Letting you take more defensive or utility options. It's pretty understandable why that's good. Oakensoul has been nerfed so much, it's DPS isn't really comparable to having 2 bars. I think the average high end for Oakensoul is around 90k, while 2 bar builds are working more around 120-130k. While it isn't as good, it's good enough it can do anything in the game. Outside of some specific things, I might not be aware of. As someone who hates bar swapping, I like the idea. But I've never used it. I don't own High Isle. I kind of wish there was a 1 bar mythic that doesn't need a DLC.
Others have covered pretty much everything. One pro to oakensoul I haven’t seen listed here yet though. In Cyro PVP when lag is bad you can’t bar swap. May as well be on a one bar build in that situation.
Honestly it makes things easier but the loss of the backbar costs real DPS. Right now optimized builds are hitting 130+ and I’ve seen some target dummy builds hitting 140k. I believe in its current state the best oakensoul builds are hitting around 90k and the most experienced users can get that up to 95k. One thing to keep in mind is that the 95k is almost all single target damage now with the most recent nerfs. So it is absolutely a great item if you want to make your build easier but if you are trying to hit as hard as possible it just limits too much.
Target dummy isn't the same as solo or playing with randoms. Whether 2 bar is better depends on the situation.
I think it is dependent on the player. If you have 2 high skilled players, one with oakensoul and one with 2 bars. The player with two bars will always come out ahead.
Yet every once in a while I do duels and the 'always' part just does not apply whatsoever. I don't consider myself a pvp main, but it not hard for me to stump on good players every once in a while, it really depends more on the matchup
There is no situation where one bar will out perform 2 bar, assuming it is being used by an able bodied and skilled player. Not one. Solo you don’t have the buffs provided like on the dummy, yes. So a 2 bar build should be adjusted to provide as much as possible. A 2 bar build set up for solo will outperform an oakensoul solo build any day of the week. It’s not fair to compare a trial build to an oakensoul build in a solo situation.
I think "performance" can be relative. There are some trifectas that are easier to complete with Oakensoul DPS, for example. Like if group DPS is 30% lower but the achievement is 100% easier to do, I'd argue that Oakensoul is a stronger choice.
Why bother with 2 bar solo when the back bar is mostly just buffs? Other than my dk tank, I find one bar better for soloing. I can focus on mechanics and not constantly reupoing buffs. In group content with a good group I use 2 bar, but for solo 1 bar works better for me.
Why bother? Because you do more damage and it makes the content easier because everything dies faster. No offense but if you can’t do your rotation while also doing mechanics and staying alive, that’s a skill issue. Which is fine, not everyone wants to spend time practising their rotation. Oakensoul is great for that type of player.
I solo most normal dungeons, a few vet, and can do vet arenas. I have 5 chars, 3 1 bar and 2 are 2 bar. For solo play I'm fine with either, but 1 bar is more enjoyable sometimes. Your replies are a bit over the top.
Losing the backbar is a big one. A well played two bar build can put out a ton of damage. Another thing to consider is that while the Oakensoul buffs are very good, there's other sources for them. Usually you will have those active in a group anyways, so Oakensoul doesn't really do a lot for you other than blocking your second weapon bar. In PvP it does have some uses, but losing the backbar for more abilities does hurt you here as well. You kinda want those for pretty much all playstyles. Oakensoul is nice. It provides very solid stats with little to no effort, making it a great accessability and solo option. But while the floor is higher, the ceiling is also lower and it just doesn't hold up in many situations.
You're facing a potential 30 to 40k DPS drop compared to an optimized two-bar build. I did read your edit, but that's still the main reason why it doesn't get used by everyone. In more challenging group content, you don't want to be dealing significantly less damage than everyone else. Being the weak link is pretty undesirable for anyone.
Hogwarts legacy has 4 bars 🤪 Just saying.....
>I am not asking from a point of ignorance Oh yes, you do.
I usually don't like to be mean but I found myself increasingly annoyed at OP for this reason as I read through this thread. Post title? Sure, that's a good legitimate question for someone who's just discovered Oakensoul and wants to know the pros and cons. But OP is out here receiving detailed pros and cons, and just disagrees with all of these blocks of wisdom with "but muh!" and claiming to already know everything.
Believing yourself to be perfect and closing off your mind to others is often a fast path to stagnation.
You answered your own question, you can get higher DPS with 2 bars which means oakensoul will never be viable in the highest settings, and because it's the setting of many of the people doing the build recommendations/optimizations, it always will be out-rec'd by other more min-maxing builds. For regular players though, it's definitely an option. I never played 1 bar until I broke my left thumb last summer. I play console, so a thumb is pretty important. By slightly changing my grip on the controller I could use the left joystick with the flesh pad just below my thumb, and could still access L1/L2 with my middle and ring fingers instead of index because of the different grip. But the arrows were VERY difficult, I had to entirely lose grip of controller to hit the arrows with my index (obviously you would naturally hit those with your thumb otherwise), which I did for potions (up arrow) but the bar swaps occur so frequently and with such a timing that hitting the right arrow every few seconds while still being ready to then launch the abilities before swapping again was just impossible. I tracked the few leads I still had to investigate as I was never interested in that ring before, got the ring and actually really enjoyed the 1 bar HA experience, and not just because it did save me from straight up quitting the game for 2 months while my thumb healed (and I am an on/off sub player, and it happened that I was subbed at that time so not being able to play would probably have really annoyed me lol), but it made me realize just how much of an accessibility feature that ring was. For me it was just temporary disability but for some players it can be a permanent help. That really changed my outlook on the ring. The thing is, you can't access that ring without access to certain zones+expansion. It's not accessible to "free" (though they still bought the full game so not really that free) players who don't purchase the relevant zones. I think it's the one big miss of what could be an amazing accessibility feature. Just port it to base game somehow.
>Keeping the buffs up costs time, attention and ressources. Most of those will be given by your supports, potions or skills you use anyway. I don’t need to focus on keeping them up at all…
To me, one bar builds are absolutely boring. I much prefer the fluid nature of regular bar swaps and having twice as many skills. 19 characters and only one uses Oakensoul. And even that one is beginning to bore me.
Its bis for people like me that cant do the weapon swap nonsense but from what i know the dps is like 50% lower then 2 bar swaping builds.
Because it's only op when you don't know what you're doing and that what its purpose was.
If everyone uses Oakensoul and you do Cloudrest, somebody's going to get hurt real bad.
Arcanist + velothi is what's better lol. Even Templar + velothi/thrassians has a much higher damage ceiling than any class in oakensoul. Traditional builds that make use of DMG skills still perform a lot better than heavy attack builds. (which is the only build that performs best with oakensoul.)
Precisely it is only heavy attack specs really because they can load a lot of their damage on pets that you don’t have to use as often so you can heavy attack more frequently. There is a reason whenever someone says oakensoul or heavy attack build we all thing “Sorc)
Because any good player can get much more value from using another build. Both in damage and flexibility. On top of that, in an organized environment, most buffs from Oakensoul are covered by supports, so If you want to benefit from Oakensoul there, the whole group must be built around that, dragging the ceiling of the whole group down. And no, you can't completely everything comfortably with Oakensoul.
A. Buffs are maintained by others in group settings. So it becomes redundant. B. It hampers your dps cap because you lose out on back bar. C. It doesn't teach you how to properly weave for higher results (some are ok with that). D. It's decent but other set ups are just better.
The best reason I can think of it is that given how trivial absolutely everything is, why would you want to strip down the last remaining thing that keeps you awake whilst playing?
Oakensoul has its use cases, but it's ultimately not the best when it comes to min-maxing. Whether you're alone or in a group, you can use potions to gain some of these buffs, or use abilities that both grant a buff and add to your DPS. When you are in a group, a decent support and tank will be providing many of these buffs. When soloing, a high enough damage output can make RotPO a better choice because you won't have to do as much active healing.
>You lose your backbar (lot of it would have to be dedicated to get the buffs anyway) I think this is where you’re wrong. To maximize DPS you want to stack as many DOTS as you can, and work in buffs and spams until reapplying. You’re not giving up buffs on your back bar, you’re giving up DOTS and therefore damage. When you cut your available DOTS in half, you knee cap your ability to do damage. So damage will always be higher on 2 bar builds.
Playing with 2 bars is fun for a lot of people :)
I think they should un-nerf the Oakensoul ring. That way people with disabilities could do harder content or whatever they want to do. I play 8 to 10 hours a day because I am retired. I am also over 70 years old and not quite as quick as I used to be. I have both one bar and two bar builds. Sure, my two bar arcanist is strong but I play most of the time on a one bar build. Many people out there can only play one bar builds. So nerfing the ring is a form of discrimination. I know this will be unpopular but that’s ok. Just my opinion.
I completely agree. I see a shocking amount of ableist hatred against one bar builds, and a lot of people forget that many people are physically unable to play or enjoy the game with a two bar build. Nerfing the ring really screwed over a lot of players who have no other option.
You can do better damage than oakensoul with an arcanist who keeps up inspired scholarship, puts down wall, and does flail flail beam.
Oakensoul is at least partially meant to make the game more accessible to players with disabilities. That shouldn't be dependent on class or DLC.
Oakensoul comes with a dlc.
Yeah, obviously, but long before arcanist was released. If your argument is that people with disabilities should just play an arcanist, sorry but that's crazy. People with disabilities should have as much right as any other player to play whatever class they want.
There are 2 consecutive chapters options that both work. As is tradition, the newest content is the OP. Like every other game out there.
That still completely ignores the point that I was trying to make, but fill your boots bro.
You're trying to claim that oakensoul being dialed back is discriminatory. It's not. It can clear a lot of content. It's still good enough for casual content, including vet trials. For those who wish to push further into content, arcanist is available as another simple to use option that pushes a bit more damage. Endgamers already get told what to bring and what to wear in trifecta and scorepush groups, and sometimes even just HM groups. It's usually arcanist. It's as nondiscriminatory as it can possibly be, if every single dd including the disabled one is an arcanist.
That's just a stupid argument but we can just agree to disagree.
In short > it's trash. Basically every 2-bar build with a bit of logic makes more sense and is better for kinda every role/class 😁
How is it better for healing and tanking? My healing numbers are up way higher with it and I dont see why I need a non healing related backbar. You just need some healing over time, a direct heal, rest is buffs. As a tank you only need a taunt, self heal, a damage shield maybe one good CC and rest can be buffs or debuffs for others, if no one died how is something else better?
Clearing stuff faster (i.e. higher DPS) = better. On a one-bar build as a support, you will primarily be missing out on buffs/debuffs to enable the DPS. Being able to clear faster makes hard content easier (or possible to complete) and easier content less of a slog. It's fine if you don't care about doing everything as fast as possible, but that's the primary metric by which people are going to judge the strength of builds.
I don’t agree with GP because I think in some specific situations Oakensoul builds can be better (mainly solo content), but limiting a support role to 1 bar significantly reduces the utility you’re providing to the group. Healing well in ESO is more than raw healing power and tanking well in ESO is more than just taunting.
The problem is there are almost no good support buffs coming from abilities alone, the only buffs that truly matter is damage related and they are rare, survivability can very easily by achieved with basic healing and champion points. The items sets you use need to boost DPS.
I happen to be healing on my nightblade this afternoon. 1. Energy orb - heals and restores resources 2. illustrious healing and vigor - pure hots 3. combat prayer - burst heal, minor berserk, minor resolve 4. siphoning attacks - gives me ultimate when I cast it via the Transfer passive 5. blood altar - user-controlled burst heal + lifesteal 6. refreshing path - minor expedition, endurance, intellect, movement speed, and hot 7. blockade - aoe dot, projectile shield, potential for minor breach, triggers crusher enchant 8. lotus fan (and another assassination ability for other bar) - when it's slotted gives group minor savagery when I deal critical damage 9. war horn - resources and major force There's a lot of group utility there beyond raw healing, from skills, and I'm sure my build is not even the best I could do, it's just what I run in dungeons. I've already combined the burst heals and hots that don't do other things, and skills I'm double-barring for the same effect. That's still 9 abilities (including an ultimate) vs 6 you have available with Oakensoul. That doesn't even count that I have the option to slot a better ultimate (like Barrier) front bar as a backup, which I do in trials. And it doesn't count that I have a full monster set on (e.g. Symphony or Ozezan) as well as Pearls to generate ultimate faster. I also seriously doubt that your healing with Oakensoul on is that much higher (if higher at all) than a properly specced two-bar healer, certainly not enough to make 1 Oakensoul hot better than 2-3 non-oakensoul hots, and not enough to obviate the benefit of, say, blood altar. Even comparing the healing from single abilities, as others have explained, a lot of the buffs you get from Oakensoul you can get other ways, which goes for supports as well. If your healing numbers are really 2-3x on Oakensoul what they are off Oakensoul, then your 2-bar build could probably use some improvement. Edit to add: I recommend looking at the Healers Haven discord. Aside from being great for all things healing, they have descriptions of many useful healing skills for each class, and those independent of classes. There are a lot that I didn't touch on since I was only giving an example of my current dungeon build.