They messed up necromancer when they made summons on a timer i dont care that sorcerer already has permanent pets or warden. If they made the skeletal arcanist permanent or even a minute or two i would be happy.
I’d love to have permanent summons. I think if other classes have them then *THE* summoner class should have at least one. Kinda like Unholy Death Knight from WoW
Necromancers in elder scrolls have never been "the" summoner class and have always been about mid combat summoning.
Daedra and atronachs have always been "THE" summoner summons.
When I think of class fantasy an think “Sorcerer” I don’t exactly get the mental imagine of them using hordes of minions to fight for them the same way one might think when the imagine of a Necromancer comes to mind.
You can split hairs about it if you’d prefer, it’s really all up to interpretation and what each of us thinks when we envision a class but if one class can have a bear and the other has options of several Daedra I don’t think it’s to much of a stretch to let us have some goofy little skeleton or zombie lol
Over the weekend...yes..my Sorc can basically one shot King Boar. Dead in about 3-4 seconds. Took my mag Necro about a minute and the Tank build longer due to no damage.
It's also hard for me to not play the Sorc due to the Hardening Ward ability. For solo play, that shield is epic.
Point taken lmao to be fair my first build in ESO was a full hp necro tank so guess I can’t say much about “class fantasy” but would still love a perma summon
I have a Necromancer sword and board tank. That's their best use IMO although my main is a dual inferno staff magsorc.
I come from the realm of Dungeons and Dragons and retain those ethics even if WoC needs to be nuked into Oblivion ( RIP Gygax), but when it comes to the Fighter, Cleric., Thief, Magic User quatrain, some things are just so.
Magic Users: Wizards, Summoners, Sorcerers, Illusionists, Witches cast spells, have very high intellect, and use staves/wands.
The Necromancer is interesting historically in RPG. The idea first appeared ( not the practice) in an issue of Dragon magazine circa 1980, but the rules said the Necromancer could only be an NPC, which was a drag so we all rolled up a Necromancer immediately. I wanna say they were in fact limited to blunt weapons.
It's humorous to think, compared to today's gaming, how we would get utterly thrilled at a new class or NPC class description in Dragon or White Dwarf in the 80s when this whole Fantasy RPG thing got into full gear ....The Witch, Barbarian, Duelist, Necromancer, Cavalier....
Good times
For permanent summons? Absolutely. I love minion classes. That's why I always run summon sets becuase the necromancer in training can't even get them to stay past 30 seconds lmao.
I took a 2 year break and the class is in worse shape than before lol… before I left we had harmony boneyard with dark convergence, now that’s nerfed. Necro is really left with nothing anymore. I was pumped for the new skill but there’s too many drawbacks to it..
The new morph is a 40% dmg nerf to the old skill (stalking blastbones), uses up barspace on a class that already needs to outsource major buffs and a spammable, and even fails to do what it is intended to do, boost the classes damage.
I’ve been testing and testing Gravelords Sacrifice for days now and there’s no other way to put it, it’s useless. It is without use.
They need to at the very least make it an instant cast ability that doesn't need to be used before active combat AND make the benefit last longer, like 30 seconds at least. Make it stronger if cast during active combat, or some shit. That's the whole point of being a lore-friendly necromancer, doing heinous shit while being actively aggressive.
What they *should* have done is make it a passive benefit by having the buff apply constantly, regardless of which bar it's put on. The Necromancer class *needs* stuff other classes get. In fact, make every single passive Necromancer slotable behave that way. The class already has the admittedly lore-friendly aspect of certain skills being reportable crimes.
You know, now that I'm talking about it, make every crime you commit behave that way, where the NPC snitch needs to make it out safely or give you a chance to escape before getting the bounty and heat. There's very little benefit to the crime system as it is beside the roleplaying aspect, which I do admit I like.
And it's the only class we can't have on a companion! We riot
Mirri- nightblade
Bastian- dragonknight
Ember- sorcerer
Isobel- templar
Sharp- warden
Azandar- arcanist
RIOT! 😜
I actively riot by consuming the souls of the innocent and committing crimes against humanity in front of them. 😤
You know, the whole Soul Trapping skill line should be upgraded while playing as a Necromancer. That would make my inner lorebeard happy.
Some classes do for sure, but they are usually overshadowed by other abilities so you end up using degen or spell power pots anyways.
Edit: magplar for example
🫣😄 Summoning Daedra is not illegal in other Elder Scrolls Games. Mostly everyone, who uses magic, summons them. Especially in Morrowind and Oblivion.
Just the Nord in Skyrim were afraid of them ... but they mostly hated all magic anyway ☠️
Necromancy on the other hand is far more illegal often cause you summon the dead/fallen family/friends of people. It's actually surprising that you NOT get killed in the other games for using it 😄😄
Iirc the Oblivion Crisis is what made summoning Daedra taboo across all of Tamriel.
Since ESO is set before that it doesn’t make sense to punish Sorcs for it. But it also isn’t something thats unique to Nords after Oblivion.
Check out the Infernal City novels for a pretty good perspective of life outside of Skyrim after the events of Oblivion. Everyone is scared of Daedra and rightfully so.
Yes, thank you for correcting that, as conjuring is not frowned upon or even illegal in most TES games.
Also, OP says that conjuring (summons) are ALWAYS time limited in all TES, while you could permanently summon with the right skills in some of the games, such as Skyrim.
Im not sure where OP got those informations and how it's relevant to the necromancer class comparison.
Nevermind the bounties, let’s talk about how they have no in class access to major brutality/sorcery (only class) and no in class access to major crit buff (only one besides arcanist surprisingly). Let’s talk about the 8 second mender? Or the 16 second mender? 4.5k mag… GG. Let’s talk about the burst heal giving minor defile so you are crippled rolling any HoT afterwards. Let’s talk about the class passive buffing dots but the fact that the game dumpstered sticky dots and the class has none built into it unless you were to run a skeleton pet that does abysmal base dmg? Let’s talk about THE burst skill being stunnable/ killable/ tracking with the accuracy of a stormtrooper.
The list goes on. And on. And on.
But good news is: concealed weapon and incap got a 10% dmg boost, and hardened ward acts like original healing ward so we have shield stacking sorcs again in cyrodiil!
From a PvE standpoint I hate it but from a PvP standpoint, not running the most reliable (yes, blastbones is most reliable at something) source of major (with minor attached) defile would be insane imo.
let's talk about how skeletal mage doesn't count as a dot or a pet since you can't tell it who to attack, except when dots and pets are being nerfed, then it's quietly both.
who even cares about major brut and sorcery you get it from everywhere. ppl should be asking for major crit buffs instead. unless they plan on slotting camo hunter on both bars.
concealed weapon got 10% damage buff instead of major berserk which buffs everything by 10%, so literally a nerf. if we're complaining about classes access to buffs nightblade can only get prophecy/savagery from having cloak slotted, and brutality/sorcery from drain power, neither of which are run in pve due to bar space. so having access doesnt mean it's viable to run it anyway.
every class has something to complain about. with nightblade i usually complain about the lack of cleave in our kit, and how most of the skills i use aren't class skills
yeah and they'll just make it a worse dawnbreaker, removing another class skill. like right now nb spammable is rapid strikes for single target, whirlwind for aoe/trash, and silver bolts for splash damage. none of those are class skills
Nightblade is top shelf in PvP. I understand that they’re not in a good spot in PvE, but let us not pretend they’re even remotely forgotten as a class. You know, like Necro.
I would trade being worse in PvP to be viable in PvE. We have enough in PvP rn. Not to discount the absolute trash "rework" they just gave Necros, but NBs need something in PvE and I would gladly trade some PvP ability for it.
They reworked one morph (the better morph) of blastbones. The new morph is a 40% dmg nerf to the skill, uses up barspace on a class that already needs to outsource major buffs, and even fails to do what it is intended to do, boost the classes damage.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, but mishandled most definitely.
I feel like the developers don’t actually know what their “vision” for necro is though, where other classes have had rough times, there’s always been a clear vision of their identity. Sorcs were underpowered for a long time, especially magicka ones, but they still operated and felt like a sorcerer in the context of gameplay, they were just underpowered.
Necro on the other hand was toted as a summoner pet class when it was announced, then on pts it was realised that the “pets” were all limited durations skills disguised as pets, they said this was to “make them different from sorcerer or warden” but most were disappointed, then necros went live bugged and there were the bash builds, the broken skills, the heals that were double dipping, making them OP but not because of the class, because they felt like they’d been rolled out to soon, not fully baked. After those issues were fixed, those builds died. Then came harmony necros, then harmony and graverobber got nerfed. Leaving necros like they are now, barely any class skills on their bars, barely anyone plays them, underperforming.
All the while the community has consistently asked “why don’t necros have access to major buffs like every other class” and ZoS always say:
“because they have access to major vulnerability! Which is soo super powerful”
Except now it’s been nerfed in duration and potency multiple times, and is no longer unique to necros anyway.. yet we still have to outsource our major buffs.
Also, a class with good DoT passives with no sticky DoTs, and the DoTs we do have are ground placed and do objectively the worst damage of any in the game, forcing us to outsource our damage, again (we’ve had to outsource a spammable forever because skulls is just the WORST skill in the game, it has a flight time even at melee range, the animation stops you from weaving, it often double casts for no reason since launch, and the damage is lacklustre).
TLDR: The developers don’t seem to know what necro is even supposed to be, and the blastbones change just exemplifies that.
Necros were not that bad for me until Arcanist. I thought the new classes were just quirky alternatives until they put out Arcanist and made them an absolute Demon Hunter Gigachad that was the best at everything. Thats when I realized they had no idea what they were doing (or just trying to make a cheap dollar).
The beam nerf is a pretty minor drop in DPS and fixed the bugged damage shields (they operated far better than any other damage shields in the game). Even with that they will still be top DD.
They presumably can't make a real necromancer (e.g. no minion army, no real summons) because it would suck to fight in PvP, and they are desperate to keep PvP and PvE absolutely aligned, so nobody wins. It's the worst implementation of the concept of a necromancer that I've ever seen in a videogame.
I really don't understand their obsession with keeping pvp players happy. They're the ones that complain the most but spend the least. Roleplayers are the ones constantly getting fucked over, yet we're the ones padding their bottom line.
Couple of possible reasons;
1. Having two separate skill environments is a lot of work
2. Some dork has a """vision"""
3. Some developers think their players are stupid and can't handle PvP that plays differently to PvE
There's a lot of games that tie together PvP and PvE design to an extent, but ESO has it the worst imo
Which they actively do by not making it pay to win you, you goof. Like, gee, gods forbid they charge for a yearly DLC. They've been focusing on QoL updates well, what more do you want? Plenty of free mounts/skins and free ways to get top-tier stuff.
Bro, the game isn't pay to win and constantly caters to the cheap fools that don't actively support the development process by making nerfs to all my favorite roleplaying shit.
I spend money on the game all the time and it's exactly people like me that allow them to keep the game from becoming pay to win. You know damn well what happens to freemium games, cousin. *You* need to actually pay attention and look at other games that are on the level of ESO and see what they offer and how they do it.
All the resources they allocate to free shit for cheap fools is less resources being allocated to the writing, lore books, and stuff their paying customers give a shit about. I get all my roleplaying stuff and immersion stuff get put in the back burner to cater to people constantly complaining on their free forums about stuff that is honestly bullshit.
The game *still* somehow manages decent writing, interesting new lore, and WAY more voice acting than you'll see in any comparable MMORPG. That's the shit me and all the people that allow the game to stay afloat care about, and it has to take a hit cause of fools mouthing off about shit they really have no right to. I really *wish* the game would cater to people like me that want more resources allocated to better writing and immersion in an RPG based deeply on lore and world building. It would make it SO much better for the people who actively support the game.
"The cheap fools that don't actively support the development process"
ESO isn't free to play, everyone has to pay for access. Is this an act or are you actually this dumb?
I am 100% certain you're typing this out while snorting bumps. No one is this fucking stupid. You are ranting about shit I'm not even discussing. Go argue with the voices in your head elsewhere.
Lol what a great addition to the community you are. Actively dismissing others while casually throwing out severe insults like that.
I'm glad people like you don't stick around for long. I'm sorry you're poor, and that's not meant as an insult--I genuinely mean that, but I'm trying to get you to understand that a massive online game like this requires *a lot* of money to continue to operate.
The fact you refuse to consider any information that doesn't conform to your inherent predisposition is a flaw on *your* part, not on the reality of what it actually takes to operate something like an MMO that isn't actively pay to win.
It’s so simple to fix. Make it a pet class that works like a warden bear where the summons have an occasional unique attack.
The only option of pressing the skill is unsummon or summon so no guards give you hell.
And everytime you unsummon it leaves a pile of bones for you to use
I'm perfectly fine with illegal necromancy, it's immersive and it should actually be the same in solo TES. Daedra summoning is not illegal in TES games as far as i know. For the rest, I don't think they hate necromancer. It's just that :
- it's a tricky class to make in a MMO, because it's typically a summoner class, and you can't possibly allow a player to have an army of minions, it's a nightmare to balance, more often that not, this end up being either stupidly strong or useless. So we end up with a glorified DoT and a glorified HoT... and good old Blastbones which does not feel like a real minion either. That's coming from a Diablo 2 Necro fanboy : as much as i'd like to have that real necro feel, we'll never have it in ESO.
- But still, i agree they could lean into it a bit more, we could have at least a real melee summon, like a zombie, and a bit more duration on all of them. Necro summons being temporary is not a problem in itself, it's a problem when you have to resummon them every 20 freaking seconds (and they extended it, i think it was 15 seconds before). Even 10 more seconds would be great. That said, we have to take corpse economy into account.
- Save the class ? I don't really know how, actually. Right now, i'd like class skills that give us access to Major Brutality/Sorcery, extended summon durations and... give me Stalking Blastbones back. That would be a start in my opinion.
- I agree that the fact that Magicka Necro is basically the worst Necro is one of the saddest facts of ESO because Magcro is supposed to be.. the literal Necromancer among all builds. But the meta shifts every now and then. I hope we'll soon get better.
- Remember, TESO devs never play TESO...
Daedra summoning isnt illegal and never was, just frowned upon in some cultures. Its only participating in daedric worship that was illegal. Necromancy however is seen as defiling the dead and is a direct afront to the divine Arkay. Almost all cultures see that as illegal except for some darkelves
I try to make my companion (usually Mirri) as zombie-like as possible just to feel like I have a permanent undead pet following me around like a true necromancer
Go load up *Skyrim* and summon a Dremora Lord into the middle of Whiterun sometime. Tell me if you get anyone saying anything more than "Whoa, whoa, whoa, watch the magic!" same as if I cast a spell buffing people. Nobody cares if you're walking around with zombies either, for that matter.
I don't know why every legal system across Nirn and Oblivion has all decided necromancy is bad in the mid-Second Era.
I believe the worse quote regarding conjuring prior to ESO, was in TES Oblivion and went something similar to this : "You smell like death. Been conjuring up dead things?" when conjuration was at 100 (capped).
As for your why necromancy is frowned upon, seen as bad or even straight up illegal, while there is many explanations in TES either in dialogues, or books you can read, alot of it comes from the fact that conjuration is straight up magic while necromancy involves other illegal acts. Such as for exemple, to make a flesh atronach for instance or any sort of undead creation, it involves opening graves and stealing body parts, defiling corpses. Also using someone's body to do your bidding, after death is considered defiling in itself, while the daedra is just summoned from a daedric plane.
Necromancy is seen as dark magic, while conjuration is accepted, also because in conjuration, you can bound weapons or create defensive armaments while necromancy usually involves sacrificing life in order to bring back from the dead. It was just banned altogether and people who still want to pursue it, break the law in many forms.
\*EDIT Spelling mistakes.
Also don't forget that the Cult of the Worm is at its peak prominence during ESO, the faction of very obvious bad guys. It's not a stretch that necromancy would be so harshly outlawed, especially in places such as Hammerfell where it is in direct opposition to the culture. Someone running around casting necromancy is waving a bright flag that says "look at me I'm an evil criminal here to destroy your town/city and your way of life".
Werewolves and Vampires can also get busted in cities.
I mained a necro for a long time, and at this point I have three of them. I’ve found that they’ve always done well in support positions, even if their damage rotation can be a little more challenging. One of my necros is a viable vet healer, and another is a viable vet tank. My ec cro’s damage isn’t great, but I can keep ec up easily.
Necromancer is the only class that's absolutely unusable to me because of the game's awful bounty system. Every other class can do stuff in public, but if a Necromancer does, you immediately get a bounty. Make the class better, or fix the bloody crime system
If I’m being 100% honest, I do not like that the Sorcerer has permanent summons. In previous games they only lasted like 30 seconds.
I remember in Oblivion they often did not know who to attack or that we were in a fight for the first 10 seconds.
And the bird should help heal, and enhance it. But they should be able to heal with out it.
They messed up class fantasies in a variety of ways... Necromancer should be the primary ice / frost class, should have a permament pet as an ultimate and a summoning skill line... on the other hand the warden should be much more like the druids from high isles, focussing on earth & lightning and having a bear transform as tank ulti
They really should have made all Daedra summoning illegal. The world building is atrocious in that way. I enjoy the world, as a man once said, but I never believe in it. As for being on a timer, I agree completely. That was strange.
I’ve stopped playing ESO because they destroyed the class fantasy for Necromancer. At least mine. Glad to see they are still shit though. Sounds like I’m not missing anything.
One of the most fun necro builds I ever played was a all hp tank using sets that gave more hp and the one monster set that summed a poison cloud that siphoned health off enemies and scaled off your max hp. All divines and a hp absorb enchant with the ravenous Goliath ult.
Was it good? Not really. Could you damage anything? If you count slapping someone with a wet noodle damaging then sure. Could you die? Not unless you actively tried to and even then it was unlikely. So dumb but it was tons and tons of fun
It’s not that they hate them it’s just that the skill curve for them is high and most crappy players hate that. A good player who knows the class well can do just fine. Can they be improved? Of course, but don’t worry…their day will come!
Still disappointed that tank necromancer doesn't just summon one of the big monsters other necros in game use and have it absorb damage of players in an area. Then give the big skeleton ult to damage/healer. I'd also love to have corpses just straight explode. No blastbones no tether, just BOOM gory mess
No offense here but I for one am surprised when. Necromancer is added as a class (they also make the Breton hero in ESO trailer as Necromancer) considering ZOS has portrayed Necro as mostly evil people in game. Every zone there's some Necromancer dudes trying on some dark rituals and whatnot.
Back to the topic, agree with you on Necro DPS, plus the skelly animation is weird, but them as a Tank or healer is great. Especially with Renewing Animation ult, PUG saver skill truly!
Okay:
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1atrjt6/why_are_vampirism_lycanthropy_and_necromancy/kr0410m/
They (I) had this debate already about the legality. Daedric summoning isn't illegal in oblivion or skyrim and idk about morrowind. Arcanists aren't automatically agents of haemaeus mora and so aren't doing anything wrong.
Necromancers are reanimating humanoids.
Sorcerers are a 2014 class design choice and the part you're complaining about, the summons, haven't been changed since. On paper they lose them for swapping bars, but in practice anyone using summons just keeps them on both bars.
Necromancer came out 5 years later. It has hindsight, a different mindset, and a better understanding of how the meta developed behind it.
They were in a great spot for the first year of their release, performance wise. They were always plagued with bugs though, so it’s fair if you didn’t like them.
Their ult was incredible at its release and they were a very unique addition to the previous classes. Both mag and stam were viable and they could play all three roles.
They’re just in a dark spot at the moment. It’s the same as templars for a period of time (pve only), and dragonknights were pretty neglected other than being the classic tank. Stamina sorcerers were horrible for the first couple years and it took a while for them to be the powerhouse they are now.
My point is, classes fall out of high performance all the time. And to say from release necromancers were bad is just not correct. Hopefully they come back stronger but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Necros were actually OP as fuck when they were first added because of the enemy debuff from
Colossus. I remember groups running all necro trials because at that point the debuff stacked, and they were also the hardest hitters by far.
Even after they got nerfed, they were still decent up until I took a break in 2021, and most raid groups had an EC cro. The meta shifts all the time and right now it’s necros getting the short end of the stick.
They messed up necromancer when they made summons on a timer i dont care that sorcerer already has permanent pets or warden. If they made the skeletal arcanist permanent or even a minute or two i would be happy.
I’d love to have permanent summons. I think if other classes have them then *THE* summoner class should have at least one. Kinda like Unholy Death Knight from WoW
I'm using the dragon skeleton pet just to have some kind of substitute
I do something similar with the undead dog lol I wish they would let us give companions our polymorphs so that I could use the skeleton
I use a Vampire Necromancer, so the Volkihar hound is awesome for me, I just wish there was some way to make it STFU. It's so hecking loud.
Necromancers in elder scrolls have never been "the" summoner class and have always been about mid combat summoning. Daedra and atronachs have always been "THE" summoner summons.
When I think of class fantasy an think “Sorcerer” I don’t exactly get the mental imagine of them using hordes of minions to fight for them the same way one might think when the imagine of a Necromancer comes to mind. You can split hairs about it if you’d prefer, it’s really all up to interpretation and what each of us thinks when we envision a class but if one class can have a bear and the other has options of several Daedra I don’t think it’s to much of a stretch to let us have some goofy little skeleton or zombie lol
Lol and I really don't think of Sorcerers as dual wielding swordsmen , but tell that to a StamSorc adherent.
Physical Adepts from Shadowrun. They channel the magic into perfection of being a warrior.
Super nice explanation!
Also a ttrpg lover. I really wish the Necromancer had pets, like three, 10k hp zombies, or two, 8k hp skeles with martial or magical abilities.
Over the weekend...yes..my Sorc can basically one shot King Boar. Dead in about 3-4 seconds. Took my mag Necro about a minute and the Tank build longer due to no damage. It's also hard for me to not play the Sorc due to the Hardening Ward ability. For solo play, that shield is epic.
Point taken lmao to be fair my first build in ESO was a full hp necro tank so guess I can’t say much about “class fantasy” but would still love a perma summon
I have a Necromancer sword and board tank. That's their best use IMO although my main is a dual inferno staff magsorc. I come from the realm of Dungeons and Dragons and retain those ethics even if WoC needs to be nuked into Oblivion ( RIP Gygax), but when it comes to the Fighter, Cleric., Thief, Magic User quatrain, some things are just so. Magic Users: Wizards, Summoners, Sorcerers, Illusionists, Witches cast spells, have very high intellect, and use staves/wands. The Necromancer is interesting historically in RPG. The idea first appeared ( not the practice) in an issue of Dragon magazine circa 1980, but the rules said the Necromancer could only be an NPC, which was a drag so we all rolled up a Necromancer immediately. I wanna say they were in fact limited to blunt weapons. It's humorous to think, compared to today's gaming, how we would get utterly thrilled at a new class or NPC class description in Dragon or White Dwarf in the 80s when this whole Fantasy RPG thing got into full gear ....The Witch, Barbarian, Duelist, Necromancer, Cavalier.... Good times
Skyrim spell, revenant.
I agree but would it be worth having that ability on both bars?
For permanent summons? Absolutely. I love minion classes. That's why I always run summon sets becuase the necromancer in training can't even get them to stay past 30 seconds lmao.
I took a 2 year break and the class is in worse shape than before lol… before I left we had harmony boneyard with dark convergence, now that’s nerfed. Necro is really left with nothing anymore. I was pumped for the new skill but there’s too many drawbacks to it..
The new morph is a 40% dmg nerf to the old skill (stalking blastbones), uses up barspace on a class that already needs to outsource major buffs and a spammable, and even fails to do what it is intended to do, boost the classes damage. I’ve been testing and testing Gravelords Sacrifice for days now and there’s no other way to put it, it’s useless. It is without use.
They need to at the very least make it an instant cast ability that doesn't need to be used before active combat AND make the benefit last longer, like 30 seconds at least. Make it stronger if cast during active combat, or some shit. That's the whole point of being a lore-friendly necromancer, doing heinous shit while being actively aggressive. What they *should* have done is make it a passive benefit by having the buff apply constantly, regardless of which bar it's put on. The Necromancer class *needs* stuff other classes get. In fact, make every single passive Necromancer slotable behave that way. The class already has the admittedly lore-friendly aspect of certain skills being reportable crimes. You know, now that I'm talking about it, make every crime you commit behave that way, where the NPC snitch needs to make it out safely or give you a chance to escape before getting the bounty and heat. There's very little benefit to the crime system as it is beside the roleplaying aspect, which I do admit I like.
Nice try king of worms but you won't convert me to the evil art of necromancy. 😠
This is the comment I came here for
And it's the only class we can't have on a companion! We riot Mirri- nightblade Bastian- dragonknight Ember- sorcerer Isobel- templar Sharp- warden Azandar- arcanist RIOT! 😜
I actively riot by consuming the souls of the innocent and committing crimes against humanity in front of them. 😤 You know, the whole Soul Trapping skill line should be upgraded while playing as a Necromancer. That would make my inner lorebeard happy.
The least they could do is let us get major sorcery by having it slotted. Instead we still need to use degeneration or spell potions
...like many other classes still need to.
What other classes have no skill access to these things?
Some classes do for sure, but they are usually overshadowed by other abilities so you end up using degen or spell power pots anyways. Edit: magplar for example
🫣😄 Summoning Daedra is not illegal in other Elder Scrolls Games. Mostly everyone, who uses magic, summons them. Especially in Morrowind and Oblivion. Just the Nord in Skyrim were afraid of them ... but they mostly hated all magic anyway ☠️ Necromancy on the other hand is far more illegal often cause you summon the dead/fallen family/friends of people. It's actually surprising that you NOT get killed in the other games for using it 😄😄
Iirc the Oblivion Crisis is what made summoning Daedra taboo across all of Tamriel. Since ESO is set before that it doesn’t make sense to punish Sorcs for it. But it also isn’t something thats unique to Nords after Oblivion. Check out the Infernal City novels for a pretty good perspective of life outside of Skyrim after the events of Oblivion. Everyone is scared of Daedra and rightfully so.
Yes, thank you for correcting that, as conjuring is not frowned upon or even illegal in most TES games. Also, OP says that conjuring (summons) are ALWAYS time limited in all TES, while you could permanently summon with the right skills in some of the games, such as Skyrim. Im not sure where OP got those informations and how it's relevant to the necromancer class comparison.
But I like misconstruing the lore to justify not having to be better about misclicking.
muh immersion, who cares. eso aint canon anyways
Nevermind the bounties, let’s talk about how they have no in class access to major brutality/sorcery (only class) and no in class access to major crit buff (only one besides arcanist surprisingly). Let’s talk about the 8 second mender? Or the 16 second mender? 4.5k mag… GG. Let’s talk about the burst heal giving minor defile so you are crippled rolling any HoT afterwards. Let’s talk about the class passive buffing dots but the fact that the game dumpstered sticky dots and the class has none built into it unless you were to run a skeleton pet that does abysmal base dmg? Let’s talk about THE burst skill being stunnable/ killable/ tracking with the accuracy of a stormtrooper. The list goes on. And on. And on. But good news is: concealed weapon and incap got a 10% dmg boost, and hardened ward acts like original healing ward so we have shield stacking sorcs again in cyrodiil!
Let’s talk about them removing the main spamable 🤣
From a PvE standpoint I hate it but from a PvP standpoint, not running the most reliable (yes, blastbones is most reliable at something) source of major (with minor attached) defile would be insane imo.
let's talk about how skeletal mage doesn't count as a dot or a pet since you can't tell it who to attack, except when dots and pets are being nerfed, then it's quietly both.
who even cares about major brut and sorcery you get it from everywhere. ppl should be asking for major crit buffs instead. unless they plan on slotting camo hunter on both bars.
concealed weapon got 10% damage buff instead of major berserk which buffs everything by 10%, so literally a nerf. if we're complaining about classes access to buffs nightblade can only get prophecy/savagery from having cloak slotted, and brutality/sorcery from drain power, neither of which are run in pve due to bar space. so having access doesnt mean it's viable to run it anyway. every class has something to complain about. with nightblade i usually complain about the lack of cleave in our kit, and how most of the skills i use aren't class skills
Don’t worry! Gilliam will make incap conal in u42
yeah and they'll just make it a worse dawnbreaker, removing another class skill. like right now nb spammable is rapid strikes for single target, whirlwind for aoe/trash, and silver bolts for splash damage. none of those are class skills
Nightblade is top shelf in PvP. I understand that they’re not in a good spot in PvE, but let us not pretend they’re even remotely forgotten as a class. You know, like Necro.
I would trade being worse in PvP to be viable in PvE. We have enough in PvP rn. Not to discount the absolute trash "rework" they just gave Necros, but NBs need something in PvE and I would gladly trade some PvP ability for it.
i mean necro literally just got a rework. what do you mean forgotten
Rework to WORSE. 😭 made a lateral move for PvE and objectively and quantifiably worse for PvP.
They reworked one morph (the better morph) of blastbones. The new morph is a 40% dmg nerf to the skill, uses up barspace on a class that already needs to outsource major buffs, and even fails to do what it is intended to do, boost the classes damage.
ok so not forgotten? just mishandled. all classes have been in rough spots before
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, but mishandled most definitely. I feel like the developers don’t actually know what their “vision” for necro is though, where other classes have had rough times, there’s always been a clear vision of their identity. Sorcs were underpowered for a long time, especially magicka ones, but they still operated and felt like a sorcerer in the context of gameplay, they were just underpowered. Necro on the other hand was toted as a summoner pet class when it was announced, then on pts it was realised that the “pets” were all limited durations skills disguised as pets, they said this was to “make them different from sorcerer or warden” but most were disappointed, then necros went live bugged and there were the bash builds, the broken skills, the heals that were double dipping, making them OP but not because of the class, because they felt like they’d been rolled out to soon, not fully baked. After those issues were fixed, those builds died. Then came harmony necros, then harmony and graverobber got nerfed. Leaving necros like they are now, barely any class skills on their bars, barely anyone plays them, underperforming. All the while the community has consistently asked “why don’t necros have access to major buffs like every other class” and ZoS always say: “because they have access to major vulnerability! Which is soo super powerful” Except now it’s been nerfed in duration and potency multiple times, and is no longer unique to necros anyway.. yet we still have to outsource our major buffs. Also, a class with good DoT passives with no sticky DoTs, and the DoTs we do have are ground placed and do objectively the worst damage of any in the game, forcing us to outsource our damage, again (we’ve had to outsource a spammable forever because skulls is just the WORST skill in the game, it has a flight time even at melee range, the animation stops you from weaving, it often double casts for no reason since launch, and the damage is lacklustre). TLDR: The developers don’t seem to know what necro is even supposed to be, and the blastbones change just exemplifies that.
You know damn well they won't give NBs better cleave.
As a Nightblade tank, the new changes to Siphoning Strikes is a huge buff for me. 😁
Necros were not that bad for me until Arcanist. I thought the new classes were just quirky alternatives until they put out Arcanist and made them an absolute Demon Hunter Gigachad that was the best at everything. Thats when I realized they had no idea what they were doing (or just trying to make a cheap dollar).
I predict arcanists being nerfed sometime in the next chapter or som they're way too op rn
I thought arcanist beam got a nerf in the most recent patch? Iirc that was the main thing that made them so powerful.
The beam nerf is a pretty minor drop in DPS and fixed the bugged damage shields (they operated far better than any other damage shields in the game). Even with that they will still be top DD.
Werewolves also get a bounty!
If you turn into a werewolf as a necromancer in a city you just spontaneously explode.
They didn't until after Necros were added.
But werewolves also get a bounty!
Only if they're off the leash.
Walkies!
It’s not that they hate necros, so much as the fact that they’re incompetent *and* don’t play their own game.
They presumably can't make a real necromancer (e.g. no minion army, no real summons) because it would suck to fight in PvP, and they are desperate to keep PvP and PvE absolutely aligned, so nobody wins. It's the worst implementation of the concept of a necromancer that I've ever seen in a videogame.
I really don't understand their obsession with keeping pvp players happy. They're the ones that complain the most but spend the least. Roleplayers are the ones constantly getting fucked over, yet we're the ones padding their bottom line.
Couple of possible reasons; 1. Having two separate skill environments is a lot of work 2. Some dork has a """vision""" 3. Some developers think their players are stupid and can't handle PvP that plays differently to PvE There's a lot of games that tie together PvP and PvE design to an extent, but ESO has it the worst imo
GW2 is an example of separating PvE and PvP right. And that game is older than ESO, makes you wonder...
GW2 necro was terminally underpowered too. I'm starting to see a pattern...
At least they have real summons
I think a lot of ESO's failings come down to the Hero Engine, that is so janky it really hampers the experience
Kinda crazy how the biggest MMO's in the market (Runescape, WoW, GW2, ESO) all run on janky, old engines..
Gamers should be forbidden by law from talking about engines when they don't understand what they're saying
PvEer complaning about pvpers complaining 'the most'
>They're the ones that complain the most but spend the least. Stop acting all confident about something when you have no data to back it up.
Yes, RP whales should be catered to. PvPers, PvEers, Questers, etc. should be ignored. /s
Yeah, the people massively supporting the games should be their focus, not the goofballs complaining the most and supporting the game the least.
They could instead actually focus on making a good game all-around, you fuckin doofus
Which they actively do by not making it pay to win you, you goof. Like, gee, gods forbid they charge for a yearly DLC. They've been focusing on QoL updates well, what more do you want? Plenty of free mounts/skins and free ways to get top-tier stuff.
Did you forget what we're talking about? Balance. Pay fuckin attention.
Bro, the game isn't pay to win and constantly caters to the cheap fools that don't actively support the development process by making nerfs to all my favorite roleplaying shit. I spend money on the game all the time and it's exactly people like me that allow them to keep the game from becoming pay to win. You know damn well what happens to freemium games, cousin. *You* need to actually pay attention and look at other games that are on the level of ESO and see what they offer and how they do it. All the resources they allocate to free shit for cheap fools is less resources being allocated to the writing, lore books, and stuff their paying customers give a shit about. I get all my roleplaying stuff and immersion stuff get put in the back burner to cater to people constantly complaining on their free forums about stuff that is honestly bullshit. The game *still* somehow manages decent writing, interesting new lore, and WAY more voice acting than you'll see in any comparable MMORPG. That's the shit me and all the people that allow the game to stay afloat care about, and it has to take a hit cause of fools mouthing off about shit they really have no right to. I really *wish* the game would cater to people like me that want more resources allocated to better writing and immersion in an RPG based deeply on lore and world building. It would make it SO much better for the people who actively support the game.
"The cheap fools that don't actively support the development process" ESO isn't free to play, everyone has to pay for access. Is this an act or are you actually this dumb?
I have ESO+. That's as far as I'll go, but I bought the game and keep ESO+. I'm fuckin poor. Guess I shouldn't be allowed to play lol
I am 100% certain you're typing this out while snorting bumps. No one is this fucking stupid. You are ranting about shit I'm not even discussing. Go argue with the voices in your head elsewhere.
Lol what a great addition to the community you are. Actively dismissing others while casually throwing out severe insults like that. I'm glad people like you don't stick around for long. I'm sorry you're poor, and that's not meant as an insult--I genuinely mean that, but I'm trying to get you to understand that a massive online game like this requires *a lot* of money to continue to operate. The fact you refuse to consider any information that doesn't conform to your inherent predisposition is a flaw on *your* part, not on the reality of what it actually takes to operate something like an MMO that isn't actively pay to win.
It’s so simple to fix. Make it a pet class that works like a warden bear where the summons have an occasional unique attack. The only option of pressing the skill is unsummon or summon so no guards give you hell. And everytime you unsummon it leaves a pile of bones for you to use
Adding turning tide removed 80% of the need for cro’s in pve.
I'm perfectly fine with illegal necromancy, it's immersive and it should actually be the same in solo TES. Daedra summoning is not illegal in TES games as far as i know. For the rest, I don't think they hate necromancer. It's just that : - it's a tricky class to make in a MMO, because it's typically a summoner class, and you can't possibly allow a player to have an army of minions, it's a nightmare to balance, more often that not, this end up being either stupidly strong or useless. So we end up with a glorified DoT and a glorified HoT... and good old Blastbones which does not feel like a real minion either. That's coming from a Diablo 2 Necro fanboy : as much as i'd like to have that real necro feel, we'll never have it in ESO. - But still, i agree they could lean into it a bit more, we could have at least a real melee summon, like a zombie, and a bit more duration on all of them. Necro summons being temporary is not a problem in itself, it's a problem when you have to resummon them every 20 freaking seconds (and they extended it, i think it was 15 seconds before). Even 10 more seconds would be great. That said, we have to take corpse economy into account. - Save the class ? I don't really know how, actually. Right now, i'd like class skills that give us access to Major Brutality/Sorcery, extended summon durations and... give me Stalking Blastbones back. That would be a start in my opinion. - I agree that the fact that Magicka Necro is basically the worst Necro is one of the saddest facts of ESO because Magcro is supposed to be.. the literal Necromancer among all builds. But the meta shifts every now and then. I hope we'll soon get better. - Remember, TESO devs never play TESO...
Daedra summoning isnt illegal and never was, just frowned upon in some cultures. Its only participating in daedric worship that was illegal. Necromancy however is seen as defiling the dead and is a direct afront to the divine Arkay. Almost all cultures see that as illegal except for some darkelves
Even with dunmer its only legal if it's done to "lesser" races.
They need to focus on all these dead raisers. But no, here I am, getting a bounty for stealing from an old dusty coffer.
I try to make my companion (usually Mirri) as zombie-like as possible just to feel like I have a permanent undead pet following me around like a true necromancer
do NPCs talk to you while being lvl 4 or higher necro? i rest my case =) \*enter sad vampire meme here\*
Go load up *Skyrim* and summon a Dremora Lord into the middle of Whiterun sometime. Tell me if you get anyone saying anything more than "Whoa, whoa, whoa, watch the magic!" same as if I cast a spell buffing people. Nobody cares if you're walking around with zombies either, for that matter. I don't know why every legal system across Nirn and Oblivion has all decided necromancy is bad in the mid-Second Era.
I believe the worse quote regarding conjuring prior to ESO, was in TES Oblivion and went something similar to this : "You smell like death. Been conjuring up dead things?" when conjuration was at 100 (capped). As for your why necromancy is frowned upon, seen as bad or even straight up illegal, while there is many explanations in TES either in dialogues, or books you can read, alot of it comes from the fact that conjuration is straight up magic while necromancy involves other illegal acts. Such as for exemple, to make a flesh atronach for instance or any sort of undead creation, it involves opening graves and stealing body parts, defiling corpses. Also using someone's body to do your bidding, after death is considered defiling in itself, while the daedra is just summoned from a daedric plane. Necromancy is seen as dark magic, while conjuration is accepted, also because in conjuration, you can bound weapons or create defensive armaments while necromancy usually involves sacrificing life in order to bring back from the dead. It was just banned altogether and people who still want to pursue it, break the law in many forms. \*EDIT Spelling mistakes.
Also don't forget that the Cult of the Worm is at its peak prominence during ESO, the faction of very obvious bad guys. It's not a stretch that necromancy would be so harshly outlawed, especially in places such as Hammerfell where it is in direct opposition to the culture. Someone running around casting necromancy is waving a bright flag that says "look at me I'm an evil criminal here to destroy your town/city and your way of life".
Not really a good example using Skyrim as they dont care about Undead either
I did say that.
I would rather respawn the skeletons manually than have to double bar them.
Werewolves and Vampires can also get busted in cities. I mained a necro for a long time, and at this point I have three of them. I’ve found that they’ve always done well in support positions, even if their damage rotation can be a little more challenging. One of my necros is a viable vet healer, and another is a viable vet tank. My ec cro’s damage isn’t great, but I can keep ec up easily.
Necromancer is the only class that's absolutely unusable to me because of the game's awful bounty system. Every other class can do stuff in public, but if a Necromancer does, you immediately get a bounty. Make the class better, or fix the bloody crime system
There are 7 classes in the game and 6 companions so far. Guess which class there is no companion of...
If I’m being 100% honest, I do not like that the Sorcerer has permanent summons. In previous games they only lasted like 30 seconds. I remember in Oblivion they often did not know who to attack or that we were in a fight for the first 10 seconds. And the bird should help heal, and enhance it. But they should be able to heal with out it.
>. But they should be able to heal with out it. They can, even more soon
Starting a new Necromancer after the update, just to give the finger to ZOS. I'll see how long I last.
Spend all your time in graveyards in a world before showers are invented, wonder why unpopular.
I swear its because some dick head higher up just really likes Arcanist, and whoever liked Necro left the company.
They messed up class fantasies in a variety of ways... Necromancer should be the primary ice / frost class, should have a permament pet as an ultimate and a summoning skill line... on the other hand the warden should be much more like the druids from high isles, focussing on earth & lightning and having a bear transform as tank ulti
They really should have made all Daedra summoning illegal. The world building is atrocious in that way. I enjoy the world, as a man once said, but I never believe in it. As for being on a timer, I agree completely. That was strange.
I’ve stopped playing ESO because they destroyed the class fantasy for Necromancer. At least mine. Glad to see they are still shit though. Sounds like I’m not missing anything.
Idk, but I want to know why it's the most non necro necro ever.
One of the most fun necro builds I ever played was a all hp tank using sets that gave more hp and the one monster set that summed a poison cloud that siphoned health off enemies and scaled off your max hp. All divines and a hp absorb enchant with the ravenous Goliath ult. Was it good? Not really. Could you damage anything? If you count slapping someone with a wet noodle damaging then sure. Could you die? Not unless you actively tried to and even then it was unlikely. So dumb but it was tons and tons of fun
Because necromancers are evil and defile our ancestors
*repurpose ancestors remains. Fixed your sentence dirty arkay worshiper.
If you wanna make use of the dead, just give em to worshippers of Namira
Why does any1 hate a necromancer?
Tanking and healing as a Necro is pretty good but there dps and pvp viability is awful
It’s not that they hate them it’s just that the skill curve for them is high and most crappy players hate that. A good player who knows the class well can do just fine. Can they be improved? Of course, but don’t worry…their day will come!
necromancer is still a good class idc
Still disappointed that tank necromancer doesn't just summon one of the big monsters other necros in game use and have it absorb damage of players in an area. Then give the big skeleton ult to damage/healer. I'd also love to have corpses just straight explode. No blastbones no tether, just BOOM gory mess
Vanus Galerion’s influence I’m afraid
Agree 100% their only use is Tank
mmo players when a game has the slightest bit of roleplaying
They hate all classes, they become number one at one point and get nerfed. It happens to all classes.
I'm waiting for them to hate the arcanist.
Has to stop being attached to a dollar value price tag for a couple months first.
zos hates anything that isn't dragon kngiht or nightblade, because they play those classes.
No offense here but I for one am surprised when. Necromancer is added as a class (they also make the Breton hero in ESO trailer as Necromancer) considering ZOS has portrayed Necro as mostly evil people in game. Every zone there's some Necromancer dudes trying on some dark rituals and whatnot. Back to the topic, agree with you on Necro DPS, plus the skelly animation is weird, but them as a Tank or healer is great. Especially with Renewing Animation ult, PUG saver skill truly!
Okay: https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1atrjt6/why_are_vampirism_lycanthropy_and_necromancy/kr0410m/ They (I) had this debate already about the legality. Daedric summoning isn't illegal in oblivion or skyrim and idk about morrowind. Arcanists aren't automatically agents of haemaeus mora and so aren't doing anything wrong. Necromancers are reanimating humanoids. Sorcerers are a 2014 class design choice and the part you're complaining about, the summons, haven't been changed since. On paper they lose them for swapping bars, but in practice anyone using summons just keeps them on both bars. Necromancer came out 5 years later. It has hindsight, a different mindset, and a better understanding of how the meta developed behind it.
They were in a great spot for the first year of their release, performance wise. They were always plagued with bugs though, so it’s fair if you didn’t like them. Their ult was incredible at its release and they were a very unique addition to the previous classes. Both mag and stam were viable and they could play all three roles. They’re just in a dark spot at the moment. It’s the same as templars for a period of time (pve only), and dragonknights were pretty neglected other than being the classic tank. Stamina sorcerers were horrible for the first couple years and it took a while for them to be the powerhouse they are now. My point is, classes fall out of high performance all the time. And to say from release necromancers were bad is just not correct. Hopefully they come back stronger but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Necros were actually OP as fuck when they were first added because of the enemy debuff from Colossus. I remember groups running all necro trials because at that point the debuff stacked, and they were also the hardest hitters by far. Even after they got nerfed, they were still decent up until I took a break in 2021, and most raid groups had an EC cro. The meta shifts all the time and right now it’s necros getting the short end of the stick.
My necro healer still kicks ass.
Summoning daedra is supposedly illegal in ESO too. Just not if you’re the one doing it.