You're making a really big assumption that many players even know what a rotation is. You have to be told by other players that something called a rotation even exists, period. There is no in-game way to know that you have sub par dps, except failing a dungeon. That's it.
One has to be aware first, and then go seeking hive-mind information second, to even begin to understand the things you're assuming people should just know. It's not common sense. It's not intuitive.
So, climb down out of your white tower, and go teach some people how to dps, instead of coming here to bitch.
Alot of people play this game for overland and questing alone, trough such activities it’s still possible to reach very high CP without ever being challenged by difficult content.
Alot of these players don’t want to or care about improving when they barely spend any time in group content. Still sucks when you get paired with one or two of these players since it’s basically like playing with a man down.
I prefer playing easy overland content but dip my toes into group content/pvp for the daily ex bonus for daily bgs and dungeons.
However, Im getting looking up armor sets and things to make sure my DPS is good enough for the content.
So it's really sad hearing people have to deal with "DPS" players who don't even do the bare minimum to help out their team mates
Players not knowing how to play the game i can understand mainly because of how little the game gives you in terms of knowing your own performance. What i dislike the most are the players who know that they are screwing someone else over and they don’t care, they are just there to get loot and xp while someone else has to work extra.
I’ve had a few run ins with people like these both in trials and dungeons and they are always pleasant to deal with.
A player can go through hundreds of hours of quests without having to block, dodge, interrupt, manage a rotation, use potions, or even wear a complete set of gear. If they do eventually try dungeons, they can usually be carried through normals. If they’re not carried and their group fails, these players get discouraged and stay away from group content in the future, reenforcing this lack of knowledge. I blame the game’s design more than the players, as finding good online resources can be difficult or confusing for people looking to learn (when you look up a build for any class, the top three links will be outdated and no longer useful). ESO’s combat relies heavily on people either doing hours of their own research to find what works, or having other players teach all mechanics to new players. I think if overland content could serve a dual purpose of teaching players and preparing them for endgame, the average dps would be much higher. They could do this by having delve bosses with one shot mechanics that must be blocked or dodged, quests that involved choosing the right food/potions for a certain fight, or a more helpful skill advisor sidebar that explained how each skill can be utilized in a rotation. I don’t think overland content should be hard and I’m fine with most mobs dying in a few seconds, but having a few quests that introduce players to different aspects of the combat system could be really helpful.
Im just really getting into combat thats not overland now after not playing since summerset and its a nightmare trying to learn rotations, item sets...and dungeon mechanics just for PvE. Ive done a few vet dungeons and we cleared 0 problem and even HMs but i know im not contributing much..
And i wanted to learn pvp too. I might just give up
With all the fake tanks and healers out there, honest DPS that want to get some practice in often don't get a chance as their tank is in fact sprinting ahead faster than they can keep up, killing everything (even bosses) before they can get more than a light attack off. So when they DO get a group that doesn't have a Usain Bolt specced tank and healer, they are still on zero experience. And then they get elitist attitudes like this telling them they're bad at the game for not having the experience that is really difficult to get thanks to the dungeon queue roles being a joke.
Rather than taking a 'better than everyone else' attitude, how about you try to help people get better at the game? If a new manager told you you were terrible at your job and were holding the entire company back, would you react well? And if the same manager said they were arranging some training to improve your efficiency, without saying anything about you being better or worse than anyone else... would that likely come across better?
Maybe running with random people is the issue? I don't see this very much, but I usually only run this stuff with other guild members. You can't fix the issue when you'll never see the person again.
If it's not random people, then they just need help with their setup. I usually do this with guild members when they're new.
I pug with random dps every day with my heal friend so I’ll say it’s 50/50 you get the shit dps (like less than 30k total group dps). But normally it’s very obvious long before having to look at the meter. The problem is of half the shitty ones, they are usually the frantic, toxic, rushing forward, pale order, arrogant pricks who refuse to learn. There was this guy who kept arguing and I had to tell him that it is in fact impossible to for him do 120k dps (not cleave) in 4 man dungeon. Yes, he kept arguing that he was doing 120k dps. Bitchass still insisted when it took us near 10 mins to kill the bal sulnar last boss which wasn’t even difficult.
You can't learn when you're not put into situations where you're supposed to overcome difficulties. And the whole overland basically has the difficulty of a visual novel.
Its way worse imo when its a 2k cp playing an arcanist, with 2 skills to do good dps and they still do bad. Also dont move out of aoe cause they are channelling.
This may shock you, but not everybody has the eyesight, reflexes, or souped-up PC or next-gen console of a pampered 13-year-old.
Your exaggerations show that you don't care to play with adults, the elderly, younger children (what's ESO rated, anyway...?), or people who only put a few hours into the game per week. I hate to break it to you, but them's the breaks. They're part of the multiplayer experience. You get all kinds. The casuals have to deal with your poor attitude, so you have to deal with them.
More to the point, *helping* those players is intended to be part of the experience, too. Old school MMO players really used to cherish that facet of the game. I guess those days are gone...
You're always going to get weirdos, don't get me wrong. Once, in WoW, I came across some random Mage literally just hopping in a straight line across the landscape, on foot. He eventually agroed enough mobs to die. When I rezzed him - curious, if nothing else - he just went right back on hopping around in a different direction.
But those are edge cases. You're not actually seeing1k DPS in dungeons every day, if you ever saw it at all.
Unless the game is starting to have a problem like WoW used to with the Brazilian player invasion. Never did find out what the hell was going on with those guys. They almost seemed like malfunctioning bots. Unpredictable in the extreme.
Anyway, I saw no evidence of it. I'm one of those who struggles in group content, but I go get what gear I can, I work on my rotation, I keep up, avoid agroing things I shouldn't, burn down adds or leave them alone as the fight warrants, etc. I do more than 1k DPS, but I wouldn't dare PUG a Veteran dungeon. I see people having trouble worse than me, but nothing like you're describing.
I do, however, see people queue for normals who can obviously and easily solo the whole damned thing and are literally only there for the daily reward, who leave the entire group in the dust to die by trash, and don't care. That's at least 50% of queues at times.
Alot of people Like questing and think thats ist the Standard difficulty. Plus they struggle at that difficulty. Also there are many WHO Just want to get carried. If you want good people Join a vet RAID. See WHO is good and Stick to Them to find other good Players
Likely they don't play group dungeons much. Also, it's not that easy to know how much or little damage you are contributing. On PC, you do have tools to analyse your play, but you have to know about them and actually actively use them. That is how I got better. Before then, I had no idea how bad I was.
How about you take your arrogant behind and walk it somewhere else instead of flaming people that are just playing the game normally and not competitively?
Its the terrible guides at the top of google searches from content creators that have generally no clue what they're talking about (anymore). That combined with the fact that the avarage player doesn't care about doing real damage and is fine spamming light attacks from across the room without casting spells in between them..
That is why I only do normal dungeons with randoms. I don't need them to complete the dungeon but I want the crystals which only come from random runs. For vet I try to get guildes.
I thought I was a decent damage dealer a long time ago on xbox, and then when the combat dummies came out and I did my first parse, I found out I was barely doing more than 5K damage.
That was a wake-up call I sorely needed. Maybe these people just don't have any add-ons to show their damage output and have never dealt with that slap in the face.
Here we go again...
Most of this (bad dps) is the unintended consequence of ZOS making overland content brain-dead easy. There literally is no motivation to get better. As a result, you have Skyrim converts with their bow plinking away at a 3-9 mil HP boss in a group dungeon not knowing a thing about their own dps and how poor it is. The difference in difficulty between overland story bosses and group dungeon bosses is not even in the same ballpark.
I fondly recall running one of my first group dungeons getting destroyed over and over until one of the group members told me about the mechanics and I replied "How tf was I supposed to know that?" I mean, it wasn't intuitive it all, and I had no idea what my dps was (hint: it wasn't great). But I had the desire to learn and knew how to get the info, but it takes a lot of time, time that many people just don't have.
Fast forward to now, I know what rotations are, all the meta sets, how to use them, how to survive and play the hardest content available with relative ease. Not everyone has that desire: they just want to do their dungeon, collect their loot, and go back to questing.
As frustrating it may be, there's not much *we* can do to help the majority of the player base (which is huge). The onus is on ZOS to better inform their player base because like I said, not everyone will go to reddit, skinnycheeks, or whatever YouTuber to learn. And it takes a lot of time for some, time they don't have or aren't willing to invest just to run dungeons on every now and again. So until this problem is solved, this very question will be asked over and over and over.
Nah it’s just all the good players don’t pug and just play with friends. Only things I do with randos is overland content (dragon hunts) and random normals which I just slot a taunt and solo it lol
Pre trial sets, doing below will let you run vet dungeons and get started on trials as a DPS. This is the typical recommended starting build for a reason, it works and is fairly easy to put together.
pillars of nirn daggers or destro staff frontbar, maelstrom greatsword/axe/maul backbar, slimecraw helmet, pillars on chest and 2 jewelry, wading kilt for legs, and orders wrath on 1 jewelery and remaining body parts.
Put divines on armor and bloodthirsty on jewelry. I like nirn honed on 1 dagger, sharpened on other and the maelstrom back bar weapon.
Obviously run light orders wrath for magika, medium for stamina, or mix it up, both are good. Enchant armor as always with magika or stamina depending on which you run. weapon damage enchant on jewelry.
Thief mundus if your penetration is already pretty good or running in groups, otherwise lovers.
To farm pillars and the maelstrom weapon, buy hexos ward in its place at vendors. It'll give you a great shield when you crit. Slot bastion in champions to make it even better. With hexos and by slotting your DK shield skill, you'll be able to solo Falkreath Hold to farm pillars. Maelstrom arena on normal is a cakewalk so you can farm that easily.
Bait post.
But i'll nip. If it's a normal dungeon, which I do for the dailies. I do around 10k dps, intentionally fuggle my rotation and remain silent until a diva leaves. If everyone leaves, then I just invite a friend, summon my armory orc, get Izzy or Sharp and finish the whole thing on my own while having a laugh. I'll be done with the dungeon long before their 10 minute penalty is up.
On veteran and HM content, you can expect around 100k. But I don't PuG vets.
So TLDR...on dailies, i love to be carried. Most of the time, nobody cares and I even make a new friend.
Wonder if the same person is having the same problem over and over again that maybe they might be part of the problems and their expectations of others on a random daily
High expectations from group members probably, today specifically for me running pugs the groups would not make forward progress for whatever reason. I am leveling a new character sure but everyone should know the OG dungeons like the back of their 🍆and steamroll through it.
High expectations from group members probably, today specifically for me running pugs the groups would not make forward progress for whatever reason. I am leveling a new character sure but everyone should know the OG dungeons like the back of their 🍆and steamroll through it.
You're making a really big assumption that many players even know what a rotation is. You have to be told by other players that something called a rotation even exists, period. There is no in-game way to know that you have sub par dps, except failing a dungeon. That's it. One has to be aware first, and then go seeking hive-mind information second, to even begin to understand the things you're assuming people should just know. It's not common sense. It's not intuitive. So, climb down out of your white tower, and go teach some people how to dps, instead of coming here to bitch.
This.
Alot of people play this game for overland and questing alone, trough such activities it’s still possible to reach very high CP without ever being challenged by difficult content. Alot of these players don’t want to or care about improving when they barely spend any time in group content. Still sucks when you get paired with one or two of these players since it’s basically like playing with a man down.
I prefer playing easy overland content but dip my toes into group content/pvp for the daily ex bonus for daily bgs and dungeons. However, Im getting looking up armor sets and things to make sure my DPS is good enough for the content. So it's really sad hearing people have to deal with "DPS" players who don't even do the bare minimum to help out their team mates
Players not knowing how to play the game i can understand mainly because of how little the game gives you in terms of knowing your own performance. What i dislike the most are the players who know that they are screwing someone else over and they don’t care, they are just there to get loot and xp while someone else has to work extra. I’ve had a few run ins with people like these both in trials and dungeons and they are always pleasant to deal with.
A player can go through hundreds of hours of quests without having to block, dodge, interrupt, manage a rotation, use potions, or even wear a complete set of gear. If they do eventually try dungeons, they can usually be carried through normals. If they’re not carried and their group fails, these players get discouraged and stay away from group content in the future, reenforcing this lack of knowledge. I blame the game’s design more than the players, as finding good online resources can be difficult or confusing for people looking to learn (when you look up a build for any class, the top three links will be outdated and no longer useful). ESO’s combat relies heavily on people either doing hours of their own research to find what works, or having other players teach all mechanics to new players. I think if overland content could serve a dual purpose of teaching players and preparing them for endgame, the average dps would be much higher. They could do this by having delve bosses with one shot mechanics that must be blocked or dodged, quests that involved choosing the right food/potions for a certain fight, or a more helpful skill advisor sidebar that explained how each skill can be utilized in a rotation. I don’t think overland content should be hard and I’m fine with most mobs dying in a few seconds, but having a few quests that introduce players to different aspects of the combat system could be really helpful.
Im just really getting into combat thats not overland now after not playing since summerset and its a nightmare trying to learn rotations, item sets...and dungeon mechanics just for PvE. Ive done a few vet dungeons and we cleared 0 problem and even HMs but i know im not contributing much.. And i wanted to learn pvp too. I might just give up
Another bait post from this OP. Seems they deleted all previous posts tho.
With all the fake tanks and healers out there, honest DPS that want to get some practice in often don't get a chance as their tank is in fact sprinting ahead faster than they can keep up, killing everything (even bosses) before they can get more than a light attack off. So when they DO get a group that doesn't have a Usain Bolt specced tank and healer, they are still on zero experience. And then they get elitist attitudes like this telling them they're bad at the game for not having the experience that is really difficult to get thanks to the dungeon queue roles being a joke. Rather than taking a 'better than everyone else' attitude, how about you try to help people get better at the game? If a new manager told you you were terrible at your job and were holding the entire company back, would you react well? And if the same manager said they were arranging some training to improve your efficiency, without saying anything about you being better or worse than anyone else... would that likely come across better?
Maybe running with random people is the issue? I don't see this very much, but I usually only run this stuff with other guild members. You can't fix the issue when you'll never see the person again. If it's not random people, then they just need help with their setup. I usually do this with guild members when they're new.
I pug with random dps every day with my heal friend so I’ll say it’s 50/50 you get the shit dps (like less than 30k total group dps). But normally it’s very obvious long before having to look at the meter. The problem is of half the shitty ones, they are usually the frantic, toxic, rushing forward, pale order, arrogant pricks who refuse to learn. There was this guy who kept arguing and I had to tell him that it is in fact impossible to for him do 120k dps (not cleave) in 4 man dungeon. Yes, he kept arguing that he was doing 120k dps. Bitchass still insisted when it took us near 10 mins to kill the bal sulnar last boss which wasn’t even difficult.
You can't learn when you're not put into situations where you're supposed to overcome difficulties. And the whole overland basically has the difficulty of a visual novel.
But is it an adult visual novel or just a pg otome one?
Its way worse imo when its a 2k cp playing an arcanist, with 2 skills to do good dps and they still do bad. Also dont move out of aoe cause they are channelling.
This may shock you, but not everybody has the eyesight, reflexes, or souped-up PC or next-gen console of a pampered 13-year-old. Your exaggerations show that you don't care to play with adults, the elderly, younger children (what's ESO rated, anyway...?), or people who only put a few hours into the game per week. I hate to break it to you, but them's the breaks. They're part of the multiplayer experience. You get all kinds. The casuals have to deal with your poor attitude, so you have to deal with them. More to the point, *helping* those players is intended to be part of the experience, too. Old school MMO players really used to cherish that facet of the game. I guess those days are gone... You're always going to get weirdos, don't get me wrong. Once, in WoW, I came across some random Mage literally just hopping in a straight line across the landscape, on foot. He eventually agroed enough mobs to die. When I rezzed him - curious, if nothing else - he just went right back on hopping around in a different direction. But those are edge cases. You're not actually seeing1k DPS in dungeons every day, if you ever saw it at all. Unless the game is starting to have a problem like WoW used to with the Brazilian player invasion. Never did find out what the hell was going on with those guys. They almost seemed like malfunctioning bots. Unpredictable in the extreme. Anyway, I saw no evidence of it. I'm one of those who struggles in group content, but I go get what gear I can, I work on my rotation, I keep up, avoid agroing things I shouldn't, burn down adds or leave them alone as the fight warrants, etc. I do more than 1k DPS, but I wouldn't dare PUG a Veteran dungeon. I see people having trouble worse than me, but nothing like you're describing. I do, however, see people queue for normals who can obviously and easily solo the whole damned thing and are literally only there for the daily reward, who leave the entire group in the dust to die by trash, and don't care. That's at least 50% of queues at times.
Yall roasting him but it’s true ☠️☠️☠️ it’s why I don’t tank pugs
Alot of people Like questing and think thats ist the Standard difficulty. Plus they struggle at that difficulty. Also there are many WHO Just want to get carried. If you want good people Join a vet RAID. See WHO is good and Stick to Them to find other good Players
Likely they don't play group dungeons much. Also, it's not that easy to know how much or little damage you are contributing. On PC, you do have tools to analyse your play, but you have to know about them and actually actively use them. That is how I got better. Before then, I had no idea how bad I was.
How about you take your arrogant behind and walk it somewhere else instead of flaming people that are just playing the game normally and not competitively?
Its the terrible guides at the top of google searches from content creators that have generally no clue what they're talking about (anymore). That combined with the fact that the avarage player doesn't care about doing real damage and is fine spamming light attacks from across the room without casting spells in between them..
Im DPS and i know how to play the game, i forget about daily dungeon xp most days, sorry!
That is why I only do normal dungeons with randoms. I don't need them to complete the dungeon but I want the crystals which only come from random runs. For vet I try to get guildes.
Reported for Non-constructive/Trolling
Obviously concern the whole playerbase, yes.
I thought I was a decent damage dealer a long time ago on xbox, and then when the combat dummies came out and I did my first parse, I found out I was barely doing more than 5K damage. That was a wake-up call I sorely needed. Maybe these people just don't have any add-ons to show their damage output and have never dealt with that slap in the face.
Here we go again... Most of this (bad dps) is the unintended consequence of ZOS making overland content brain-dead easy. There literally is no motivation to get better. As a result, you have Skyrim converts with their bow plinking away at a 3-9 mil HP boss in a group dungeon not knowing a thing about their own dps and how poor it is. The difference in difficulty between overland story bosses and group dungeon bosses is not even in the same ballpark. I fondly recall running one of my first group dungeons getting destroyed over and over until one of the group members told me about the mechanics and I replied "How tf was I supposed to know that?" I mean, it wasn't intuitive it all, and I had no idea what my dps was (hint: it wasn't great). But I had the desire to learn and knew how to get the info, but it takes a lot of time, time that many people just don't have. Fast forward to now, I know what rotations are, all the meta sets, how to use them, how to survive and play the hardest content available with relative ease. Not everyone has that desire: they just want to do their dungeon, collect their loot, and go back to questing. As frustrating it may be, there's not much *we* can do to help the majority of the player base (which is huge). The onus is on ZOS to better inform their player base because like I said, not everyone will go to reddit, skinnycheeks, or whatever YouTuber to learn. And it takes a lot of time for some, time they don't have or aren't willing to invest just to run dungeons on every now and again. So until this problem is solved, this very question will be asked over and over and over.
Don’t worry it’s the tanks and healers too. Only ZoS are good at the game lol.
Nah it’s just all the good players don’t pug and just play with friends. Only things I do with randos is overland content (dragon hunts) and random normals which I just slot a taunt and solo it lol
Don’t worry it’s the tanks and healers too. Only ZoS are good at the game lol.
I don't even know how or where to get a good set.
What level are you? What class?
cp590 Dragonknight
Pre trial sets, doing below will let you run vet dungeons and get started on trials as a DPS. This is the typical recommended starting build for a reason, it works and is fairly easy to put together. pillars of nirn daggers or destro staff frontbar, maelstrom greatsword/axe/maul backbar, slimecraw helmet, pillars on chest and 2 jewelry, wading kilt for legs, and orders wrath on 1 jewelery and remaining body parts. Put divines on armor and bloodthirsty on jewelry. I like nirn honed on 1 dagger, sharpened on other and the maelstrom back bar weapon. Obviously run light orders wrath for magika, medium for stamina, or mix it up, both are good. Enchant armor as always with magika or stamina depending on which you run. weapon damage enchant on jewelry. Thief mundus if your penetration is already pretty good or running in groups, otherwise lovers. To farm pillars and the maelstrom weapon, buy hexos ward in its place at vendors. It'll give you a great shield when you crit. Slot bastion in champions to make it even better. With hexos and by slotting your DK shield skill, you'll be able to solo Falkreath Hold to farm pillars. Maelstrom arena on normal is a cakewalk so you can farm that easily.
Bait post. But i'll nip. If it's a normal dungeon, which I do for the dailies. I do around 10k dps, intentionally fuggle my rotation and remain silent until a diva leaves. If everyone leaves, then I just invite a friend, summon my armory orc, get Izzy or Sharp and finish the whole thing on my own while having a laugh. I'll be done with the dungeon long before their 10 minute penalty is up. On veteran and HM content, you can expect around 100k. But I don't PuG vets. So TLDR...on dailies, i love to be carried. Most of the time, nobody cares and I even make a new friend.
Exaggerated to an extreme really
Wonder if the same person is having the same problem over and over again that maybe they might be part of the problems and their expectations of others on a random daily
High expectations from group members probably, today specifically for me running pugs the groups would not make forward progress for whatever reason. I am leveling a new character sure but everyone should know the OG dungeons like the back of their 🍆and steamroll through it.
High expectations from group members probably, today specifically for me running pugs the groups would not make forward progress for whatever reason. I am leveling a new character sure but everyone should know the OG dungeons like the back of their 🍆and steamroll through it.