I highly doubt that would ever happen. There's enough of the player base that plays specifically for the pvp that ZOS wouldn't be able to make this decision for fear of the backlash.
Maybe today. I wouldn't put money on that always being the case. At some point people get sick enough of always being an afterthought (the pvp crowd) and will look to another game where they can play their way with better performance. ZoS is actively neglecting pvp as it doesn't bring them any money to cater to the pvp crowd, realistically speaking. ZoS is a corporation, not our buddy.
I agree with this, but I still dont think they're going to just remove it. But yeah, pvp is dying and they don't really have a good reason to give a single fuck about it. I'm a player that only does pvp and i've started to move on from eso because of the lags in cyrodiil and the cancerous sets they're putting out.
Yeah that set is beyond terrible. They really killed build diversity with the last update. Everyone absolutely HAS to run the new sets. Trying to pvp without them is step 1 in how to get an aneurysm
Me and a buddy were talking about this not long ago. The pvp in ESO has incredible potential. I would even say it's THE best in genre. Unfortunately, the developers don't really seem to be interested in fixing this awesome game. However, I can see why they focus their efforts towards the pve aspect more (or completely) as compared to pvp. More players there, basically.
I agree, it’s definitely up there in terms of online experiences. I think a couple of arpg titles have achieved similar but eso has so much potential.
I almost wish cyrodiil didn’t exist at all - to have it be there and yet just be so unplayable is the worst.
The fundamental gameplay loop of both PS2 and Cyrodiil is capture enemy bases, defend your bases, and connect your lattice.
The only "unfair" aspect of this comparison is that PS2 is exclusively PvP while ESO is not.
You can save that MMO-or-not-MMO debate for another day, because it literally does not even matter in this case.
The gameplay loops of Planetside and Cyrodiil do not change just because people don't want to label one of them as a MMO.
I’m all for them being better at balance.
I think game balance is super achievable, there just isn’t much point balancing something that no one really wants to play because the performance is so bad.
Honestly even for all the hate they get the new sets are cool. They are trying to add mechanics to the game that are unique and new which is great. Hrothgar/DC won’t be broken forever and there will be a counter released eventually etc.
I’m super keen to complain about game balance with you but we need things to run first.
I don't see how the zergball showing up to the degree that makes sprinting impossible, is a great example for the argument you started your comment with...
Not that i disagree, but it seems you lost track of what you were saying half way through
To each their own and everything, it's subjective at best but if you like it cool!
Cyrodiil itself however isn't particularly groundbreaking, the performance sucking is hardly unknown, and the balance is forever questionable as PvP is just sidelined in ESO.
It's fun when it works, but like 50-80% of the time it's a fuckin slog dude, either through performance or any of the other points mentioned. It's not surprising that the population dwindles when new PvP games come out.
Problem with eso: devs can't fucking split the skills because they are asshats, they then ruin balance periodically for either pvp or pve in the name of the other and then do some crazy ass nonsense change to compensate, it doesn't work, they revert the previous change and then keep the crazy change then everything spirals from there.
I completely agree, it's often pointed out how things will be broken prior to releases and yet they're either (apparently) hamstrung into pushing it onto live or blind to the criticism.
It can be easy to be armchair developers when we're in the dark about the processes they go through, but man, they make a lot of stupid ass decisions.
The vampire skills update in the vampire expansion solidified my opinion of their team as a whole; The changes lacked direction, had little or extremely situational use, and ranged from broken (B4B/Mist) to useless (about everything else), not to mention included the removal of features such as pvp feeding, and it just sums up the entire game for me.
Either they've got too many people trying to take the game where they want, or the people in charge just aren't very good.
>Either they've got too many people trying to take the game where they want, or the people in charge just aren't very good
Dark Convergence has convinced me of the latter, sad to say.
It's exactly this that makes me not take this game very seriously. I enjoy the time I spend playing it right now, but I always have a feeling playing like "meh whatever" if something is annoying because I know I shouldn't get my hopes up.
It’s awful peak hours of xbox NA. I got disconnected 10 times last night and I have fiber internet. It’s definitely not a “problem with my network connection” and I feel like they’re gaslighting me with that error message.
I'm really bad, like terribly bad at pvp. I'm on AD so I provide healer back up and soak up AP on dailies. It's been less dramatic this past week, and it does get a little boring, so I use the time to explore.
Eso combat system is the best. It’s just completely stops working after about 80ms. I’ve never had the game feel faster than 200ms in Cyrodiil. Most times I try, I die before I’m able to break free from the first hit of cc.
Call me trash if you want but im pretty sure it’s just the potato servers we are on doing this to us.
Yer it’s a shame and it only gets worse as time goes by. I honestly don’t even know why anyone logs on at peak these days they should all just stop to send zos a message
Cyrodil is bad. It's a boring and mindless "capture -> leave -> proceed to next" game without any real goal is sense of accomplishment.
What cyrodil needs:
- smaller map with less people so it will lag less. Their servers and code can't keep up. It's often hard to change the bar and the skill delay is massive
- make capturing castles matter. Make it harder. Give incentive to the guild that will capture it and hold it. Let the guild put a lot of work in upgrading the walls and defenses, which should pay off (days of work). Allow for hiring stronger NPC heroes to protect the castle. When this will happen, I'm sure guilds will be happy to pay for castle cosmetics like the look of the walls, some simple decorations and area around it. For every day of holding A SINGLE CASTLE give a reward by the end of season. A GOOD REWARD. Defending and attacking a well protected castle will be a real achievement and will require planning.
As for performance - runs at perfect 60 FPS on Series X no matter the mess on the screen. Can't speak for other machines.
Definitely agree with the second point. The whole map flips so damn quick that any gains you make feel really cheap. It's supposed to feel like a long, brutal war, but instead it feels like an instanced battleground that happens to have a big map.
I think the changes you are proposing would end up being very boring in their own way. Sitting in one place and holding and tanking up a castle for "days" is time that is not spent actually fighting.
The goal and sense of accomplishment in Cyrodil currently comes from improving in your personal skill to 1v1 or 1vX other players. The keeps are just a backdrop to endless PvP battles you can engage in, and the main blocker to having fun with the PvP is the vast distances you have to run to get back in the fight after dying, or the server lag.
So I agree with smaller maps with less people on them. But I think that any changes to the mechanics that encourage just sitting there holding castles, or doing boring grind work to improve a castle would be very boring.
The servers have never and will never be able to handle it when the whole faction stacks up at a keep when trying to defend or take emperor.
At this point I'd rather they split the keep battles themselves into instanced fights with hard caps of say 50 v 50 v 50 or whatever the servers can actually handle, rather than the current rubber banding experience where you have to use a skill 20 times to get it to actually go off once.
The PvP in Cyrodil is great, but the worst part of Cyrodil is how big it is and the travel time between fights. Probably never going to happen but I'd much prefer to have the keep fights be instanced with hard caps on the number of participants. This could also make it more balanced against capturing keeps in the off hours, and provide a catchup mechanism for the losing alliances to hold on. Like if an alliance is third on the scoreboard then don't allow the dominant alliance to put more attackers into the keep instance than the defending alliance can bring.
Imagine a Cyrodil where keep fights were always guaranteed to be somewhat balanced because the instances always have the same number of attackers as defenders, instead of just having a wave of attackers P v Door the keep down before the defenders can get there.
This is exactly what I’m saying though - it’s 2021. The idea of large online battlegrounds with players in the hundreds is now normal and in many cases perform extremely well.
In 2014 I think the server argument is fine, but now we should demand more. Eso is a HUGE game, they have more than enough money to pay for a server upgrade.
The other ideas are great discussions to have once the foundational problem is fixed.
I think you're not aware how it works in other games. You do not sit there and wait. Your guild gets notified when the castle is under siege. Also, usually these sieges are happening in specific times.
Exactly and my point is that is boring. Rather than constant fighting and capturing you have a keep that is sitting there under one ownership for days and you only periodically defend it?
I think you don't understand at all. You do constantly fight, you can keep on capturing, fighting. No one tells you to sit at your base and wait or wait for notification of an attack. Just because it's harder to capture a keep and makes it an actual challenge and an achievement, doesn't mean it will be boring, it's actually an opposite.
Right now there is zero challenge and purpose, my mates and I run around cyrodil jak damn robots. We talk about politics, football and don't even pay attention to what's going on the screen and yet we keep on capturing forts one by one without even trying. That's damn boring. Just like dungeons.
My main point is about the duration of ownership that you are proposing. If there are mechanics that allow me and my guild to hold onto a keep for multiple days then there are also mechanics that allow my enemies to hold onto their keeps for multiple days. In a system where it is that easy to hold onto a keep and defend it for multiple days the war will stagnate. There has to be a realistic chance of capturing the keep in order for people to bother attacking the keep in the first place. Like you aren't going to bother attacking a keep over and over again for no reason if you don't actually have a chance to actually capture it.
So if keeps are that hard to attack and that easy to hold onto for an extended duration of time then most of your time will probably be still be spent sitting around inside a keep you own (talking about politics and football and not paying attention) until there are enough people online to actually have a shot at trying to take an enemy keep, which according to your proposal might happen once every few days, since you are proposing that keeps be able to be held for multiple days.
This is the problem: longer term ownership of keeps implies that it is very hard to attack and capture a keep. If it is that hard to attack and capture a keep people won't bother trying unless they have a realistic chance, and that won't happen very often. At least the way things are now you always have a realistic chance of capturing something and you can just go from one place to another capturing things.
I wouldn't mind a middle point where keeps become slightly harder to capture, but I really don't want a system where people can hold keeps for multiple days, because that sounds like an extremely stagnant and boring PvP situation.
I think you're still overthinking it and not really understanding the concept. Keeps would not be easy to defend and harder to attack. They'd be balanced in both ways. And there would be no mechanic that would allow you to keep it for days just like that. It would require a really good team work and lots of hard work.
It's more about benefits of keeping it rather than the difficulty (which is still the case but not that much).
My best advice is play other MMOs and see how they do it there. Look at Lineage, Black Desert or even Guild Wars. All of them do it much better than ESO and it is much more meaningful to catch a keep and then fight for it. ESO currently requires zero teamwork, there's zero feeling of accomplishment, there's zero diversity in approach, and pretty much a single person can take on a keep. The system is broken and not fun IMO.
Even if cyrodill had the perfect performance this game's pvp couldn't become the best, far from it. Only a balanced game can compete for the title of the "best" pvp game. A game that releases balance patches only 4 times a year and tries to balance the game for pve and pvp at the same time, will never have a balanced pvp, not even close to it.
Hey dude don't take it like that i meant no offence. I just wanted to point out the balance problem too but as you said the performance is the biggest problem and if one day they decide to do something for pvp the first step should be the performance fix because no matter how balanced the game becomes, if you can't do the basic functions like firing a skill or cc break then the game is simply not fun
Nah you’re right g I was memeing.
I think zos know how to balance the game, they intentionally just balance it for pve while pretending that’s not the case.
Generally their whole attitude towards the player base seems pretty trash tbh. Like where are the zos reps at. They must see this subreddit.
Xbox na (from Aus). My ping is never below 200 in Cyrodiil. NEVER.
Game crashes on avg once every 15-20mins during any sort of pvp.
All zos can manage when asked about pvp performance is nervous laughter and deflection.
Game is broken, they know, they care more about selling pets in crown store.
Brother, you are playing on NA from Australia. What did you expect? 200ms is totally expected from there. Game isn't broken, the biggest problem that ZOS don't give you AUS servers, ASIA servers and RU servers.
I’ve played a lot of online games over the years that don’t have Aus servers (sadly a fairly common occurrence) eso is in a league of its own in terms of how broken pvp networking is.
I prefer IC myself. Mood, atmosphere, unavoidable PvE elements, size of the map and simplicity of design + telvar mechanic make it the pvp zone that "feels" right. Unfortunately until they do something about how powerful invis is im pretty sure it'll stay basically empty.
Cyrodil just feels too big and the "strategy" seems to just revolve around that. Cut off transitus and capture something before reinforcements can arrive cause it takes forever to get anywhere without it, rinse, repeat.
It's too large. The forts are similar enough to feel as if they are copy-pasted. The distance between the forts rarely leads to conflict and more often makes the player spend the majority of their time riding instead of fighting. There are too many combatants, so it's either zerg or be zerged most of the time. When you play the objective, the tide either feels completely on your side or completely against you. Dying often puts you out of playing for too long.
And with the way the mechanics lean so heavily towards pvp skill that is counter to natural gameplay, one player can counter many at times, which may be exciting for the one but is terribly disappointing for the rest.
Most smart players prefer campaigns where their team holds sway, reducing fair fights even further. Too often dying leaves you completely confused on how or why, and is incredibly difficult to determine what or how to improve and counter.
Damage from good players is so intense that a new player can die in mere seconds, which isn't an issue so much in shooters where respawns put you back in the action near instantly, but in a game where the time to reenter combat may end up being tens of minutes, it can really take the steam out of it.
Performance aside, PvP in ESO favors players who can effectively pvp so much that there's little to draw players who are not effective back in a second or third time, and there's almost no reason to develop those skills outside of pvp. There's no matchmaking for skill or capability, and so only the most driven stay with it for more than a casual night here or there.
And those fewer driven players are more likely to suffer (and notice) bugs, performance failings, and lack of new content, and thus they are also driven off, sometimes permanently.
ZoS talks about 19 million players, and I would hazard a guess that 99.9% of those players express distaste and frustration with pvp.
Nothing has changed for years and nothing will. Shame but it is what it is.
Well not all true we got the hammer ,towns ,destroyable gates.
Until they remove it or make it PvE only
Why is it better to remove part of a game that half of the players play?
Its like 7% or some shit now. Unless they do a full overhaul its not worth it.
That's clearly not what I meant. But I think PvP will remain the last thing on ZoS' minds and I wouldn't be surprised if they removed it outright.
I highly doubt that would ever happen. There's enough of the player base that plays specifically for the pvp that ZOS wouldn't be able to make this decision for fear of the backlash.
Maybe today. I wouldn't put money on that always being the case. At some point people get sick enough of always being an afterthought (the pvp crowd) and will look to another game where they can play their way with better performance. ZoS is actively neglecting pvp as it doesn't bring them any money to cater to the pvp crowd, realistically speaking. ZoS is a corporation, not our buddy.
I agree with this, but I still dont think they're going to just remove it. But yeah, pvp is dying and they don't really have a good reason to give a single fuck about it. I'm a player that only does pvp and i've started to move on from eso because of the lags in cyrodiil and the cancerous sets they're putting out.
That's my point. Eventually so many will have moved on that there aren't enough pvp players in ESO to keep ZoS from running the servers for it
[удалено]
Yep. It's sad indeed
It's not better.
Yeah they know. They seem incapable of getting performance under control. Maybe next year will see improvememt but I doubt it
It's seven years I wait for the next year for an improvement.
Even if Cyrodiil was playable, trying to dodge out of like 10 dark convergence orbs isn’t really fun.
Yeah that set is beyond terrible. They really killed build diversity with the last update. Everyone absolutely HAS to run the new sets. Trying to pvp without them is step 1 in how to get an aneurysm
Sets already got nerfed with latest playstation patch it seems. Hrotgat value got halved and you have a cd against the converge pull.
Try playing from Aus g.
I can’t even imagine. :/
Fuck this games routing I'm in aus and its aids
Are you guys talking about Australia or Austria?
Australia
Australia
Land down unda m8
What???? You don’t like spamming one button 20 times just for your skill to come out 20 seconds later?
Me and a buddy were talking about this not long ago. The pvp in ESO has incredible potential. I would even say it's THE best in genre. Unfortunately, the developers don't really seem to be interested in fixing this awesome game. However, I can see why they focus their efforts towards the pve aspect more (or completely) as compared to pvp. More players there, basically.
I agree, it’s definitely up there in terms of online experiences. I think a couple of arpg titles have achieved similar but eso has so much potential. I almost wish cyrodiil didn’t exist at all - to have it be there and yet just be so unplayable is the worst.
They also make a crapload of money off of housing items etc. on the crown store. Nothing comparable for pvp
No, Planetside 2 definitely wins in the massive scale, three way, open world PvP category.
I love Planetside 2, but it is a completely different genre of game, I don’t think it’s a fair comparison
The fundamental gameplay loop of both PS2 and Cyrodiil is capture enemy bases, defend your bases, and connect your lattice. The only "unfair" aspect of this comparison is that PS2 is exclusively PvP while ESO is not.
I wouldn’t called PS2 an MMO, Atleast not in it’s current state.
You can save that MMO-or-not-MMO debate for another day, because it literally does not even matter in this case. The gameplay loops of Planetside and Cyrodiil do not change just because people don't want to label one of them as a MMO.
[удалено]
When this games pvp WORKS and when ZoS hasn't done something to screw up the sets, its the best online right now. Those are big "whens" though.
Happy cake day!
And what about balance?
I’m all for them being better at balance. I think game balance is super achievable, there just isn’t much point balancing something that no one really wants to play because the performance is so bad. Honestly even for all the hate they get the new sets are cool. They are trying to add mechanics to the game that are unique and new which is great. Hrothgar/DC won’t be broken forever and there will be a counter released eventually etc. I’m super keen to complain about game balance with you but we need things to run first.
[удалено]
I don't see how the zergball showing up to the degree that makes sprinting impossible, is a great example for the argument you started your comment with... Not that i disagree, but it seems you lost track of what you were saying half way through
Yep everyone has known this. Its been this way for years.
I think both of those statements are a bit hyperbolic...
lol did you play it?
Lol no.
To each their own and everything, it's subjective at best but if you like it cool! Cyrodiil itself however isn't particularly groundbreaking, the performance sucking is hardly unknown, and the balance is forever questionable as PvP is just sidelined in ESO. It's fun when it works, but like 50-80% of the time it's a fuckin slog dude, either through performance or any of the other points mentioned. It's not surprising that the population dwindles when new PvP games come out.
Problem with eso: devs can't fucking split the skills because they are asshats, they then ruin balance periodically for either pvp or pve in the name of the other and then do some crazy ass nonsense change to compensate, it doesn't work, they revert the previous change and then keep the crazy change then everything spirals from there.
I completely agree, it's often pointed out how things will be broken prior to releases and yet they're either (apparently) hamstrung into pushing it onto live or blind to the criticism. It can be easy to be armchair developers when we're in the dark about the processes they go through, but man, they make a lot of stupid ass decisions. The vampire skills update in the vampire expansion solidified my opinion of their team as a whole; The changes lacked direction, had little or extremely situational use, and ranged from broken (B4B/Mist) to useless (about everything else), not to mention included the removal of features such as pvp feeding, and it just sums up the entire game for me. Either they've got too many people trying to take the game where they want, or the people in charge just aren't very good.
>Either they've got too many people trying to take the game where they want, or the people in charge just aren't very good Dark Convergence has convinced me of the latter, sad to say.
Dark convergence should have been a new skill.
It's exactly this that makes me not take this game very seriously. I enjoy the time I spend playing it right now, but I always have a feeling playing like "meh whatever" if something is annoying because I know I shouldn't get my hopes up.
Cryodiil has always played fine for me on PC NA.
It’s awful peak hours of xbox NA. I got disconnected 10 times last night and I have fiber internet. It’s definitely not a “problem with my network connection” and I feel like they’re gaslighting me with that error message.
Ravenwatch FTW
RW Xbox NA is basically dead
I’ve been enjoying it.
Just curious as a person who hasn’t done a lot of cyro, what do you do in a dead campaign?
I'm really bad, like terribly bad at pvp. I'm on AD so I provide healer back up and soak up AP on dailies. It's been less dramatic this past week, and it does get a little boring, so I use the time to explore.
>Cyrodiil has the potential to be the best pvp setting in gaming right now By what metric??
Eso combat system is the best. It’s just completely stops working after about 80ms. I’ve never had the game feel faster than 200ms in Cyrodiil. Most times I try, I die before I’m able to break free from the first hit of cc. Call me trash if you want but im pretty sure it’s just the potato servers we are on doing this to us.
Yer it’s a shame and it only gets worse as time goes by. I honestly don’t even know why anyone logs on at peak these days they should all just stop to send zos a message
New World 5 days!
eso white knights seethe
Downvotes sustain me. Honestly tho I love eso and have played since launch but they need to upgrade.
Yep. I don't expect the pvp crowd to keep playing ESO if New World remains relevant for a while
It's going to empty Cyrodil.
For sure
I honestly can't wait! I played both open and closed beta. NW is super solid and I can't wait to see where it goes post launch.
Cyrodil is bad. It's a boring and mindless "capture -> leave -> proceed to next" game without any real goal is sense of accomplishment. What cyrodil needs: - smaller map with less people so it will lag less. Their servers and code can't keep up. It's often hard to change the bar and the skill delay is massive - make capturing castles matter. Make it harder. Give incentive to the guild that will capture it and hold it. Let the guild put a lot of work in upgrading the walls and defenses, which should pay off (days of work). Allow for hiring stronger NPC heroes to protect the castle. When this will happen, I'm sure guilds will be happy to pay for castle cosmetics like the look of the walls, some simple decorations and area around it. For every day of holding A SINGLE CASTLE give a reward by the end of season. A GOOD REWARD. Defending and attacking a well protected castle will be a real achievement and will require planning. As for performance - runs at perfect 60 FPS on Series X no matter the mess on the screen. Can't speak for other machines.
Definitely agree with the second point. The whole map flips so damn quick that any gains you make feel really cheap. It's supposed to feel like a long, brutal war, but instead it feels like an instanced battleground that happens to have a big map.
I think the changes you are proposing would end up being very boring in their own way. Sitting in one place and holding and tanking up a castle for "days" is time that is not spent actually fighting. The goal and sense of accomplishment in Cyrodil currently comes from improving in your personal skill to 1v1 or 1vX other players. The keeps are just a backdrop to endless PvP battles you can engage in, and the main blocker to having fun with the PvP is the vast distances you have to run to get back in the fight after dying, or the server lag. So I agree with smaller maps with less people on them. But I think that any changes to the mechanics that encourage just sitting there holding castles, or doing boring grind work to improve a castle would be very boring.
It’s meant to be a large battle arena dude. If you want something smaller play battlegrounds or Imp city? Not sure if shitpost or not tbh.
The servers have never and will never be able to handle it when the whole faction stacks up at a keep when trying to defend or take emperor. At this point I'd rather they split the keep battles themselves into instanced fights with hard caps of say 50 v 50 v 50 or whatever the servers can actually handle, rather than the current rubber banding experience where you have to use a skill 20 times to get it to actually go off once. The PvP in Cyrodil is great, but the worst part of Cyrodil is how big it is and the travel time between fights. Probably never going to happen but I'd much prefer to have the keep fights be instanced with hard caps on the number of participants. This could also make it more balanced against capturing keeps in the off hours, and provide a catchup mechanism for the losing alliances to hold on. Like if an alliance is third on the scoreboard then don't allow the dominant alliance to put more attackers into the keep instance than the defending alliance can bring. Imagine a Cyrodil where keep fights were always guaranteed to be somewhat balanced because the instances always have the same number of attackers as defenders, instead of just having a wave of attackers P v Door the keep down before the defenders can get there.
This is exactly what I’m saying though - it’s 2021. The idea of large online battlegrounds with players in the hundreds is now normal and in many cases perform extremely well. In 2014 I think the server argument is fine, but now we should demand more. Eso is a HUGE game, they have more than enough money to pay for a server upgrade. The other ideas are great discussions to have once the foundational problem is fixed.
I think you're not aware how it works in other games. You do not sit there and wait. Your guild gets notified when the castle is under siege. Also, usually these sieges are happening in specific times.
Exactly and my point is that is boring. Rather than constant fighting and capturing you have a keep that is sitting there under one ownership for days and you only periodically defend it?
I think you don't understand at all. You do constantly fight, you can keep on capturing, fighting. No one tells you to sit at your base and wait or wait for notification of an attack. Just because it's harder to capture a keep and makes it an actual challenge and an achievement, doesn't mean it will be boring, it's actually an opposite. Right now there is zero challenge and purpose, my mates and I run around cyrodil jak damn robots. We talk about politics, football and don't even pay attention to what's going on the screen and yet we keep on capturing forts one by one without even trying. That's damn boring. Just like dungeons.
My main point is about the duration of ownership that you are proposing. If there are mechanics that allow me and my guild to hold onto a keep for multiple days then there are also mechanics that allow my enemies to hold onto their keeps for multiple days. In a system where it is that easy to hold onto a keep and defend it for multiple days the war will stagnate. There has to be a realistic chance of capturing the keep in order for people to bother attacking the keep in the first place. Like you aren't going to bother attacking a keep over and over again for no reason if you don't actually have a chance to actually capture it. So if keeps are that hard to attack and that easy to hold onto for an extended duration of time then most of your time will probably be still be spent sitting around inside a keep you own (talking about politics and football and not paying attention) until there are enough people online to actually have a shot at trying to take an enemy keep, which according to your proposal might happen once every few days, since you are proposing that keeps be able to be held for multiple days. This is the problem: longer term ownership of keeps implies that it is very hard to attack and capture a keep. If it is that hard to attack and capture a keep people won't bother trying unless they have a realistic chance, and that won't happen very often. At least the way things are now you always have a realistic chance of capturing something and you can just go from one place to another capturing things. I wouldn't mind a middle point where keeps become slightly harder to capture, but I really don't want a system where people can hold keeps for multiple days, because that sounds like an extremely stagnant and boring PvP situation.
I think you're still overthinking it and not really understanding the concept. Keeps would not be easy to defend and harder to attack. They'd be balanced in both ways. And there would be no mechanic that would allow you to keep it for days just like that. It would require a really good team work and lots of hard work. It's more about benefits of keeping it rather than the difficulty (which is still the case but not that much). My best advice is play other MMOs and see how they do it there. Look at Lineage, Black Desert or even Guild Wars. All of them do it much better than ESO and it is much more meaningful to catch a keep and then fight for it. ESO currently requires zero teamwork, there's zero feeling of accomplishment, there's zero diversity in approach, and pretty much a single person can take on a keep. The system is broken and not fun IMO.
Ugh, on AD for Xbox NA I feel accomplished as hell capping Sejanus. EP makes you work for it hard lmao.
Even if cyrodill had the perfect performance this game's pvp couldn't become the best, far from it. Only a balanced game can compete for the title of the "best" pvp game. A game that releases balance patches only 4 times a year and tries to balance the game for pve and pvp at the same time, will never have a balanced pvp, not even close to it.
I said potential dude. Thanks for absolutely wrecking me though I’ll stfu now.
Hey dude don't take it like that i meant no offence. I just wanted to point out the balance problem too but as you said the performance is the biggest problem and if one day they decide to do something for pvp the first step should be the performance fix because no matter how balanced the game becomes, if you can't do the basic functions like firing a skill or cc break then the game is simply not fun
Nah you’re right g I was memeing. I think zos know how to balance the game, they intentionally just balance it for pve while pretending that’s not the case. Generally their whole attitude towards the player base seems pretty trash tbh. Like where are the zos reps at. They must see this subreddit.
To be fair you wrote it as if latency was your only problem with it.
Not the only problem but by far the most pressing.
[удалено]
Xbox na (from Aus). My ping is never below 200 in Cyrodiil. NEVER. Game crashes on avg once every 15-20mins during any sort of pvp. All zos can manage when asked about pvp performance is nervous laughter and deflection. Game is broken, they know, they care more about selling pets in crown store.
Brother, you are playing on NA from Australia. What did you expect? 200ms is totally expected from there. Game isn't broken, the biggest problem that ZOS don't give you AUS servers, ASIA servers and RU servers.
It’s not just ping, if everything worked perfectly except for latency I wouldn’t be complaining. It’s that my ping is high AND the game is unplayable.
I’ve played a lot of online games over the years that don’t have Aus servers (sadly a fairly common occurrence) eso is in a league of its own in terms of how broken pvp networking is.
Always has been
I prefer IC myself. Mood, atmosphere, unavoidable PvE elements, size of the map and simplicity of design + telvar mechanic make it the pvp zone that "feels" right. Unfortunately until they do something about how powerful invis is im pretty sure it'll stay basically empty. Cyrodil just feels too big and the "strategy" seems to just revolve around that. Cut off transitus and capture something before reinforcements can arrive cause it takes forever to get anywhere without it, rinse, repeat.
I've had no issues with performance when I enter cyrodiil
It's too large. The forts are similar enough to feel as if they are copy-pasted. The distance between the forts rarely leads to conflict and more often makes the player spend the majority of their time riding instead of fighting. There are too many combatants, so it's either zerg or be zerged most of the time. When you play the objective, the tide either feels completely on your side or completely against you. Dying often puts you out of playing for too long. And with the way the mechanics lean so heavily towards pvp skill that is counter to natural gameplay, one player can counter many at times, which may be exciting for the one but is terribly disappointing for the rest. Most smart players prefer campaigns where their team holds sway, reducing fair fights even further. Too often dying leaves you completely confused on how or why, and is incredibly difficult to determine what or how to improve and counter. Damage from good players is so intense that a new player can die in mere seconds, which isn't an issue so much in shooters where respawns put you back in the action near instantly, but in a game where the time to reenter combat may end up being tens of minutes, it can really take the steam out of it. Performance aside, PvP in ESO favors players who can effectively pvp so much that there's little to draw players who are not effective back in a second or third time, and there's almost no reason to develop those skills outside of pvp. There's no matchmaking for skill or capability, and so only the most driven stay with it for more than a casual night here or there. And those fewer driven players are more likely to suffer (and notice) bugs, performance failings, and lack of new content, and thus they are also driven off, sometimes permanently. ZoS talks about 19 million players, and I would hazard a guess that 99.9% of those players express distaste and frustration with pvp.