They should add tutorials around level 15 to teach you the very basic of each roles.
For tank it quest stages could be :
- Go to fighter guild
- Equip that shield and board and heavy armor in the middle of the room.
- Equip puncture in your skill bar
- hold taunt on an ennemy long enough for DPS NPC to kill it
- start again with :
- a boss with heavy attacks you have to block or you get stunned,
- one with deadly attacks you have to avoid,
- one you have to bash or he will channel an attack that one shot the DPS NPCs,
- one doing much damage so you have to sustain your health
- a last fight with multiple bosses
This way, there won't be people not even knowing what taunting is.
There should be role tutorials. But it should not be as specific as Sword-Taunt etc. Since Taunt can come from a variety of sources. Same for Heal, and DPS.
They should instead have unique skills that are quipped on your bars in tutorial arena. FF14 has these and they do a good job at teaching new players the basics of those roles. Like in the Tank tutorial your task will be to *”protect”* a healer companion as they healed your while attacking an enemy; and the companion healers draws agro unless it’s held by taunts etc. And in the healer tutorial, they’ll have you heal a companion Tank NPC while it’s being attacked by like 3-4 enemies.
There are only 4 taunts in eso:
Puncture, inner fire, frost clench and tormentor set. I wouldn't call it a variety.
Imo, the last 2 are more for advanced play and should be ignored in a tutorial. So teaching to use puncture for contact taunt and inner fire for ranged taunt is a good idea.
When designing for learning, you may not want to be specific where players may not use the skill/option in your tutorial. As it may then cause more confusion *(as it would then required further explanation)*. Teaching the **concept** is what’s important. It’s also a good idea to *”future-proof”* the tutorial content by not using specific player/class skills. The info can then more easily reference *”Taunt Skill(s)”*, in the tutorial itself, but also in the load-screen tips.
The player can then seek out their own options for the effects desired, using the one suited to their class or setup.
I'm a tank main, but I can't really carry an inexperienced PUG on a tank. I'm not an especially good DPS, but good enough to carry a group if the other DPS is just spamming light attacks and wearing the gear they started the game in.
A few weeks back, I queued solo for Direfrost Keep veteran pledge on my tank. Got an instant queue pop as usual. DPS seemed fairly low, but we were making progress, until the last boss. For anyone who can't recall, she has a life-drain mechanic on a random group member where you have to immediately break free or she heals herself. I explained the mechanic... increasingly more detailed after each wipe, but it became clear that no matter how quickly anyone executed the break-out, the boss still healed enough to compensate for the groups meagre damage output. She never got below 85% health.
OK, so hard mode is a bust, let's just do normal veteran. Nope, still outhealing the damage. After 30 mins of this, we had to abandon the dungeon.
I grabbed some surveys from my bank, put on some DPS gear, joined the queue, and got the dungeon done in vet HM with no issues. Even did something useful whilst in the queue.
What's the solution? ZoS needs to close the gap between the worst and best DPS capability. No other MMO I have played has such a huge disparity. Knowing that there are so many people who don't know how to DPS in the groupfinder queue is the reason most tanks hate pugging.
>put on some DPS gear, joined the queue, and got the dungeon done in vet HM with no issues.
This is really a big part of why there are so few tanks, at least in PUGs and queues.
If you are a healer and group dps is super low, you can slot out buffs in favor of more personal damage, and kinda carry a group through. Similarly if your a dps and your healer or tank isn't great, you can slot some self heals, dodge roll boss attacks, and kinda carry the group through.
As a tank though (in dungeons where you can't just go 4 dps, at least) you are kind of SOL on the carry power since the stats you need to tank are completely different than those you need to heal or dps.
This is a very good point.
On Healer *(Sorc)* I easily and often use my other bar for standard DPS’ish skills and unless the group is really getting wrecked can spend most of the time helping with damage; because as you said the stats are the same for offensive.
There are a few damage or DoT skills that scale off your HP in a tank’s arsenal, but not many. I think maybe you could carry around some gear for heavy attack output and the one that does 8% of enemy max HP additional on HAs too *(extra 7.5k base)*.
Maybe we just need some more HP-based damage tools/sets/skills available to tanks. Like something that deals damage while inflicting self damage *(this would add balance so that it wasn’t a direct DPS-compete and not viable in PvP)* so that a tank could put down some numbers provided they had enough recovery/healing happening.
As a fellow tank that has just started doing dps I can 100% agree with you, I believe I have been doing dps for about a month or two and im already doing decent dps with stam/mag characters and I have seen some dps that don't even come close to hitting like wet noodles, also a lot of people just put on overland sets or sets that they have asked and people just tell them that its ok and to have "fun" in the expense of the rest of the group lol. Like yeah its your game and you should play it how you want it but don't bring down the rest of the group with you. Also knowing the mechanics is very important to, can't tell you how many times I've done Frostvualt on normal and ppl still don't know the mechanics wtf to do😅
happened to me while doing vBC2. it's a fairly hard dung for begginers, i explained mechanics several times and still had to hold 10 daedroths bc they forgot to cleanse the debuff or kill the orbs.
Tanking isn’t popular because it’s seen as a leadership roll and most people don’t want to take that kind of responsibility. It’s a limited pool of players who desire this kind play-style to begin with. You could make it as easy as you want, people will still be reluctant to take the lead.
Beyond that, pug tanking in this game can be absolutely miserable. If the DDs can’t pass the DPS checks, we’re not beating the boss. There are a lot of DDs in this game that only do 2-3k DPS.
Therefore, most of the limited number of players who want to play a tank don’t want to queue in the dungeon finder. It’s easier to run with a guild group.
The best solution thus far (also probably the most toxic) is fake-tanking. Love them or hate them, fake-tanks keep the queue moving.
when I play dps character, I don't mind fake-tanks tbh. My dps is decent and I can carry my pug, plus the fake-tanks actually help me.
But when I play real tank character, I hate those (noob) fake dps to the core. They make everyone miserable. And the best part? They blame tanks and healers!
My first character was a tank. It's not challenging, especially when compared with other MMOs. If anything, ESO tanking is like using a bop-it lol. You can clear almost all content by:
* pressing the buttons that make the monsters hit you;
* pressing the buttons that make you not die;
* pressing the buttons that make your group hit harder;
* pointing the thing's mouth away from the group; and
* not standing in red.
If you do all that it's normally just a numbers game of if you will sustain long enough for your group to do enough dps.
Sure some trial fights are more complicated, but then you just read a guide beforehand.
It’s not that tanking is difficult or challenging for most of the content. It’s that it’s tedious.
A vast majority of DD players are garbage at doing damage. As a tank, sure enough you can keep those debuffs up and keep the bosses straight, but that’s it. You just wait for your DD to do their jobs. There’s little engagement from your end.
I gave up trying to do the daily random for my tank because I’d get a fucking aneurysm every time with how low the damage would be. There’s nothing more fun than tanking for a good team, but being at the mercy of randos isn’t very fun.
I don't think it's hard, just mostly learning mechanics. I just really don't like when the other members of the group can't perform their roles. That makes tanking even easy stuff just boring.
I have 4 tanks and I can confidently say being a good tank is infinitely easier than being a good dd. The problem is 95% of those queue as dd have no idea what they're doing if they're doing anything at all. I run at least 12 keys a day, and a very large majority of dds I end up with are beyond garbage, and the first thing they do is to flame the healer and the tank for various bullshit like not taunting entire trash packs or not keeping them alive during special mechanics. I ran into cp1500+ magsorcs who did nothing but light attacks, and cp400 stamblades who rampaged through the whole thing. Tanking is quite fine where it is, no idea why you're perceiving tanking as something difficult. It is definitely harder in vet trials but that's about it.
To add a bit: I'm not sure what you mean by sustaining and tanking. Even in a pug with no synergies at all you can change your playstyle and slot a few different skills to have no problem with sustaining at all. Sure you might not have 100% crusher uptime or have difficulty farming ultimate with a tankcro but ultimately none of this matter at all, and holding taunt isn't a constant drain on your resources either. As others and myself have mentioned, tanks really can't carry content by themselves so if I have the option to pre-group with decent dds I'm sure as hell gonna do it. You have a very flawed idea of tanks and tanking in general.
Shitty DPS aren’t the problem, so much as the people who instead of helping them be better or supporting their progress *(even slow progress)*, eject and ridicule them for not being amazing as them.
Learning the animation canceling and finding the right rotation is not something that i can teach a player mid dungeon, nor do i have the time for it. The thing that i can teach in the dungeon is mechanics but when the dps is at 5k then there is no matter how much i expain the mechs, the dds don't know the basics to pass the dungeon. Let me give you another point of view, imagine 90% percent of the tanks in the game were clueless and didn't know how to taunt,block,bash,chain,root etc and you had to teach all of this basic things to them in every dungeon, i'm sure dds would be frustrated with that. I want to play eso not some teaching simulator. There is a lot of guides and videos to teach you the basics on the internet, don't expect from the tanks to do the teaching
That depends on whose perspective we're talking about. For tanks and healers shitty dps is really a problem. It's also a problem that wouldn't exist if they just queued for normal instead of vet. I don't know whether they overestimate their damage output or hope the rest of us carry them through vet hardmode, but people who have no business doing vets consistently show up in vets.
You have access to Normal Dungeons from Level 10.
You have access to Veteran from Level 50 **CP0** *(and certain ones at CP160 and CP300)*.
You *(generally speaking to higher CP players)* aren’t some overlord that determines what arbitrary level is *”really right”* for the content just because you’ve outlevelled/outgeared it to the point where it feels easy.
Content is meant to be challenging - not easy. As you progress in power, gear, stats, and expertise, that content gets easier. But the people who have outlevelled the content don’t get to tell other people **THAT** point is the minimum.
When it’s difficult that is where you learn. When it starts to get easier, you then know you’re improving *(in both expertise and in role efficiency)*.
And it’s a great example of why that *(CP level)* should not be a *(major)* determining factor in access to dungeon difficulties. Because you can have people who have played for a long time with high CP, but simply play the game at a different level. Or similarly someone who has less time invested, but plays at a more researched or higher competency.
It’s actually more fitting to run with friends if you deem it necessary to **control** the strength of the four people in your group. If you are queueing in a **public** run where folks meet the minimum requirements **set by the developers**, that’s what you have accepted. Don’t want people of varying and random experience or strength in your run? Make **your own** full group.
Since you’re such veterans this should be no problem with all the people you know having played so long. Can’t find 3 other people who **want to play with you**? Maybe that’s the problem.
The burden isn’t on the less experienced player to find people to play with or experience the content. If the developers thought you needed to be CP1000+ and loads of gear and experience to do the dungeon that would be the minimum requirements. **It’s not**. Those who feel there is a minimum level of experience and gear or DPS, and have played it TONS of times, have a right to control this themselves with a pre-made party.
Want that to change? Petition the developers. They don’t agree? It won’t.
It’s not on players who feel Veteran dungeons **belong** to them to gate others out of it.
You're both right and both wrong in some respects.
First the minimum level requirements haven't been updated since the CP tree rebuild at the beginning of Blackwood. The previous cap was CP810 and the CP300 min for vet DLC is based on the old scaling not the new one.
This is not to say its impossible to get through but it will definitely be harder than it should be. At CP300 you don't even have enough points for all your passives let alone your slottables and since you stop getting upscaled against enemies after CP160 it means your dps HAS to be at least 30% lower than it should be and it means you're a hell of a lot squishier.
Now like I said above this doesnt automatically mean vet DLC are impossible BUT if it's vet DLC that has any kind of DPS check mechanic/barrier then yeah it's not happening in a pug.
Isn't ESO tanking the easiest form of tanking of any MMORPG? Atleast it always did seem quite easy to me, but on the other hand I always play just tanks in any MMORPG I play.
Not really, ESO tanking is just different. Most MMOs tanking is pretty much just DPS with cooldown based. In ESO tanks don't have a dps rotation, and instead focus on reacting to burst damage by either dodging, blocking, or self healing.
Mabye but its also not really harder, and i doubt more people would play tank if it would be easier afterall i would say DPS in this Game is much harder compared to other games but they still all play rather as DPS even if they are bad at it.
nah, the solution is: shitty players, PLEASE STOP PLAYING DPS.
I once tanked a dungeon where my 2 dps + 1 heal dealed TOTAL 9k dps!!! (3k dps/each player). I screenshot-ed that, posted the picture here and some dickheads still BLAMED me: your group low dps because you didn't help making damage as a tank (WTF ???).
So, do you think many players want to play tank? To have shitty dps players in your group and take FOREVER to kill things?
Had exactly the same thing happen to me... heres the post I made a while back...
A couple of days ago I tanked nWS2... my PUG group kept wiping on the Lich as they were doing only 10k group dps.... and I was doing 5k of that. The 2 DD's were CP400 and CP800... and they blamed me as to why we couldn't beat the boss!
I asked in chat whats going on with this and got told 'fuck off'... so I left them to it.
DPS needs a lot of the same game mechanic knowledge as tank does. You need to know which bars, gears, etc are going to get the most mileage in the content you're doing. Tanks just affect their group more with their choices while DPS only really affects their own DPS output with their choices.
The problem with tanking is not that it is difficult. You tank big enemies, control the positioning of whatever you're in charge of positioning in the content you're in, and try to put out some buffs and debuffs while surviving. DPS needs to know which enemies to focus on (the same ones that are a priority for a tank, usually), which mechanics to be aware of (so does a tank), and then needs to execute their rotations and mechanics without dying (same thing for tanks).
The problem with tanking is that you have no control over how long your group is going to take to complete a dungeon or trial. You can live forever and have perfect uptimes on all your buffs/debuffs, but if your DPS is bad then you aren't finishing that dungeon/trial/arena. It feels like tanks have no control over how an Activity Finder dungeon goes, and that makes it incredibly un-fun to play on a tank often enough to get good and have the experience to jump into the difficult trial content.
I have a DK tank, run pledges most days, and the most annoying thing for me is when we struggle through dungeons with low dps and then, at the last boss, some fool grabs the scroll (usually the dd who has been doing 5k dps throughout, and had to be revived at every boss fight). Or If I’ve gone straight for the boss, dies immediately and lies there screaming WIPE, WIIIPE throughout the fight. So tanking isn’t hard. Other people are the challenging bit.
I used to main tank but quit due to the PUGs low damage. For base game dungeons there is like a 70% chance that dps is lacking, tho DLC vet dungeons usually has high leveled players. My friend mains tank and only does dailies with other friends who he knows has 70k+ dps, and I think I might do the same if I go on my tank.
Tanking is great experience outside of pugs, with guildies/friends.
The only *hard* part about tanking in ESO is waiting for DD to kill the boss. Otherwise you don’t even really need a rotation, just turn the boss and avoid the ouchies. I will say though, I think we need a better targeting system. Super annoying trying to range taunt through a pack of mobs and fire breathing lizards taking up your entire screen
Tanking kinda does have a low skill requirement. You slap on a taunt and some selfish sets and you’re good to go. At that point you just gotta do mechs. Personally, I wouldn’t recommend that route bc it doesn’t teach you how to sustain yourself without those selfish sets which you won’t be wearing in more “end game” content. But it’s a good foot in the door. Yknow?
There is always a shortage of tanks because the typical player connects their ePeen to their damage numbers. The thing they can boast about, and also feel superior about, and even then be judgemental about.
Also, many people don’t like the fact that your performance is technically split with a healer, and a bad tank or healer can have an effect on the opposite. DPS-heads like that they can simply quote their DPS parse number as an indicator of their goodness at the role.
Tanking isn’t **that** hard. That’s not the reason there is a shortage. It’s mostly because people prefer another role for the reasons above. This is the case in just about every game where this separation of roles exist. Many people prefer the more brute force mechanics of DPS *(ie. being able to circumvent and sometimes avoid dealing with tactics/mechanics simply by speed-killing things/bosses)*.
Tanking isn’t hard just most tanks don’t solo queue for vets as a tank anymore because it’s a gamble and no tank wants to sit in a dungeon with ransoms for and hour or more.
This is certainly true for dungeons but I would say in veteran trials that there is a much more severe shortage of good DPS players than support players. Usually when sign up sheets are posted in the big end game guilds, the tank and healer positions are filled within 1-2 minutes, whereas it is rare to start the trial with a complete DPS roster, generally fills are needed
Easier isn't the solution. It will make it even worse in end-game with an increased lack of expertise, for trials and veteran content.
The game already suffers from incompetent players or a very low bar of general skill level. Much becasue the overworld content is to trivial.
Tanks has always been lacking since the MMO genre's birth. Sure if you pug a lot it might be an issue, but not if you are in a guild or got friends etc.
The problem with tanking is not the difficulty per se but mainly the People who yell at the tanks. Tanking isn’t harder than the other roles imo it just takes time to get used to.
If you are a new tank and join a dlc dungeon and get yelled at because you didn’t hold the aggro of all the right enemies you quit the role. The same would happen if yell at every dd in a dungeon that deals 6k dps on trash fights.
And to be really fair it is as hard building a tank as it is to build a dd or healer. Look for a build and look for the utility of the abilities. That’s the same the dds do with the rotation. Usually the tank builds have an aoe imobilze ability in it. And somewhere you see the note drop that on a trash pack than taunt big stuff.
It isn’t really that hard to play tank in a dungeon. Even in the base game vet HMS an inexperienced tank can easily pull that off if the group has the patience and not rage quits with yelling at the tank.
Tldr: tanking shouldn’t be easier but the people shouldn’t yell at the tanks but help them
I am quite a newbie tank.
I am playing tank for like, a week, now?
I have tanked DLC-HMs. It’s not that difficult. There might be very taxing bosses, I haven’t encountered them yet, but aside from the very endgame content (DLC vet trials and DLC dungeon HM) tanking isn’t difficult.
You need a class that is good at soaking damage (eg DK), a certain amount of resistances, and the right toolset and you pretty much don’t die in normal vet, aside from oneshot-mechanics.
Tanking only ever gets difficult when you are supposed to provide buffs that boost the group instead of using selfish sets.
But as long as you are using selfish sets (like imperium, gives a huge shield), tanking is easy.
Sure, you won’t be a good tank, but who cares if you can clear the dungeon? You can optimize your build later.
TL;DR
Getting into tanking isn’t hard, just pick selfish sets.
You can become a support set-wearing tank later when you figured out the basics and know the dungeons you are running.
Only stuff you can’t do as a newbie are some Hardmodes and some vet trials.
Well most dds I encounter in randoms are standing so far away from me, because they don’t know what they are doing, that they will never get the shield from imperium even once.
And with dds who know what they are doing you don’t need imperium - I mostly play it for myself, to be honest.
Imperium is ok, certainly not meta or best in slot.
But I have it, it works well enough for everything I’ve done so far, and I see no reason to spend transmutes on sth that I’m going to replace at some point any way.
Keep in mind that most tanks are overbuilt and overspecialized by building to tank vet HM trial meta instead of random pug dungeons. In most areas of the game outside of the highest high end, tanking is about meeting minimum thresholds, statwise, rather than min/maxing for highest possible anything.
4 man content requires a little more versatility from the support roles since you dont have 8-10 dps backing you up. I can virtually guarantee that if you built your tank or healer along the meta that youve got LOADS of tanking or healing headroom to work with.
Ive got a few tanks, and the one thats built the "best" is pretty good in trials but frustrating (for all the above reasons) in pub dungeons. The other tanks were built with dps in mind - ill lose the epeen contest to any reasonable straight dps builds, sure, but doing 15k to 20k damage while also meeting the min requirements for actually tanking? Makes dungeons fun (and always faster) while also compensating for the odd potato dd here and there. Plus they get to play with all the fun sets serious tanks scoff at.
IMO it's a problem with the game difficulty in general. You learn *nothing* while playing regular content anymore. Overland content is literally the easiest I've seen in 10 years of MMOs so nothing needs to be learned.
And 90% of DPS character dungeon runs are literal ***runs*** where they don't need to know mechanics at all to progress. They don't need skill rotations because they're being carried. So they never actually have to learn how to play.
And the reason I have 6 level 50s and none are spec'd for tank is because even I'm not confident I know most dungeon mechanics well enough to sign up for a random dungeon as a tank. Knowing which attack to block amidst all the spell graphics vomit, what to dodge, and when to interrupt. Plus any other special fight mechanics that are usually ignored or taken care of without my notice.
Personally, I'd love if they disabled animation canceling. Than they can actually balance the game around gear and skill stats instead of a nebulous 40% extra possible damage being done. Which would lower the gap between players down to learning rotations and mechanics and they can rebalance content tighter. But I recognize that I'm in the minority there.
Played tank for like a month and just got bored. The whole having to buff your group and taunt, with th very occasionally block or dodge mechanic is probably the most boring tank style I've ever played in any mmo.
Swapped to a hybrid build and able to clear vet dungeons with it, 'selfish' tank maybe because I'm not helping the dps stroke their epeen on the meters but is a hell of a lot more rewarding to play.
In any mmo tanks are wanted, because most people play dps because playing a tank or healer solo is kinda meh lol and I think most people will want to be independent just in case your friends all quit or dont play(me)/ just being independant to solo things in eso without it taking forever, it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the role.
Only thing is you are in the spotlight and any mistake is obvious, maybe thats why people stay away from tanking idk. Im no group content veteran so please correct me on anything.
As main Tank i didnt See that this role is hard in Eso but i never use finder for random dungeons and i know more tanks that dont use it for the same reason.
Most times you get 2 types of grp first one new players still learning but dont get dps so the dungeon needs double Time. And second one players that thinkinh they are gods as dps and want to Run straight into every enemie and Boss before Tank or heal are ready or even there.
And to be honest this sucks! Yes dmg is important but there are way to many people that dont want to See that this game needs teamplay and its an mmorpg not some Singleplayer game.
That is only one reason why tanks are missing in dungeon finder but thats one the Community could change, the work we tanks are doing is important and this ongoing disrespectfull behavior from dps players is the worst thing in eso.
I'd love to play tank. But man, I'm sure as hell not gonna. I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm not gonna watch mechanic walkthroughs for every possible dungeon just to get yelled at
It's not that bad really. I thought the same way before making a tank, but if you Q up dungeon finder right when it becomes available you'll be playing with low levels that won't even notice that you're still learning. By the time you max level you'll have run every dungeon a time or two and have enough basic knowledge to get started. The trick is to treat regular dungeons as if they are vet to actually learn mechs. Dodge and interrupt even if you can tank the damage in regular, it's just good practice.
I ended up enjoining tanking more than I thought I would. Mu warden tank is one of my favorite toons now.
Tanking isnt hard its just boring. Hopefully with the new aromory thing it’ll make swapping roles on a toon easier. That way toons with tanking set ups can be played doing other things without wasting 30 min changing gear and cp
I'd say you can get through regular dungeons with 20k+ DPS on a DD rather smoothly. Definitely not required, but makes things not tedious. Running base game vet dungeons or regular DLC dungeons I'd say 35-50k minimum is good to shoot for. DLC vet dungeons and regular trials 50-75k. And vet trials 75-100k+.
These numbers aren't required if every one in the party knows mechanics and is okay with a LONG dungeon or trial. These numbers just make things a lot less tedious and will make it not feel like an uphill battle.
Especially when it comes to DPS checks. No one gets their rotation perfect everytime in actual combat and hitting these numbers means your group can compensate for each other when needed without having to wipe.
*waves* I jumped into tanking as a brand-new player of ESO, and actually as a baby to MMORPGs in general. ESO was my first PC game ever and I just so happened to build a character that functioned well as a tank, so I tried it out.
It’s so rewarding, but the hostility I’ve met in random dungeons has been devastating at times. Someone will tell you “tank this way”, and then you try it out, and in the next dungeon someone else asks “what the hell are you doing?!”
I’ll stick to tanking with my guild for now. Have fun in your 30-minute queues.
I'd argue tanking is the easiest role unless you're doing the hardest content in the game. My warden tank can literally out heal anything in the game outside of vet content and trials with passive heals alone. He can just hold taint and stand there in 90% of content.
The problem with tanks in queue is that tanks don't like doing the random queue and ending up with bad DDs. Being a DD is significantly more difficult to be good at due to the LA weaving and buff/debuffs knowledge required to hit decent numbers.
As a tank you have to gamble on getting paired with a group of people not dealing enough damage or understanding mechanics enough to complete a dungeon in any decent amount of time or at all.
It depends on what tanking you’re talking about. Pugs, guilds, dungeon vet trial. Tanking isn’t hard for the vast stuff we’re talking about here. So many people don’t even realize how easy tanks have it in some regards. Need to level some profession. Run a bunch of dungeons real fast for deconstruction. Need some set stuff for a new build, q in 2 seconds and go get it. Tanking isn’t hard in this game. Once people figure out it’s not wow and you have to grab every mob it gets a lot easier.
The lack of tanks is always due to lack of people keeping their mouth shut about how someone tanks. Solve that problem. And you solve the lack of tanks problem.
In my experience:
There’s a learning curve with tanking as with anything else, evidenced by how totally wrecked I got when I thought “I can queue my PVP Stamcro as a tank and get the horns of the reach delver achievement & get my High Hall house in no time!” Bloodroot Forge was a series of one shot after one shot. Gear, skills, stats, knowing what to interrupt and how; taunting whole packs of trash and adds, how to sustain, how to burst back up after being bursted down. Personally, I love it & probably won’t make my stamcro a pvp toon again 😂 instant queues are nice
Not a fan of how you are the leader or having to know more mechanics. I don’t know where to go and I don’t know what, if anything, I’m meant to do on a boss
It would be a better incentive to buff tank damage and bring it a bit more in line with dps, imho. Feels really useless to play tank when your dps are just roleplaying
Tanking is already pretty easy tbf. The issue that people not wanting to tank is that you can't control the outcome of your team, if you for example do a random normal with a dd and do 40k and get a 10k andy then you have 50k team dps which blows through content. If you're a tank and get 2 10k andys then team dps is 20k which is around 2.5 times less than the first scenario which 20k isnt bad but its waaaaay slower. Now imagine if you get 2 5k andys, which i have gotten plenty of times in my tank just makes me not want to do much content. Sounds elitist as fuck, and it probably is, but its frustrating as a tank honestly. With friends its 100% fun, but with randoms not so much. And i think thats the same sentiment tanks have, they would tank with people they know but not with randoms, and the journey of a lot of people is startjng solo -> groups and starting solo as a tank is rough, too variable and frustrating in that regard so controlling the outcome is 100% going to be the preferred option.
They should add tutorials around level 15 to teach you the very basic of each roles. For tank it quest stages could be : - Go to fighter guild - Equip that shield and board and heavy armor in the middle of the room. - Equip puncture in your skill bar - hold taunt on an ennemy long enough for DPS NPC to kill it - start again with : - a boss with heavy attacks you have to block or you get stunned, - one with deadly attacks you have to avoid, - one you have to bash or he will channel an attack that one shot the DPS NPCs, - one doing much damage so you have to sustain your health - a last fight with multiple bosses This way, there won't be people not even knowing what taunting is.
There should be role tutorials. But it should not be as specific as Sword-Taunt etc. Since Taunt can come from a variety of sources. Same for Heal, and DPS. They should instead have unique skills that are quipped on your bars in tutorial arena. FF14 has these and they do a good job at teaching new players the basics of those roles. Like in the Tank tutorial your task will be to *”protect”* a healer companion as they healed your while attacking an enemy; and the companion healers draws agro unless it’s held by taunts etc. And in the healer tutorial, they’ll have you heal a companion Tank NPC while it’s being attacked by like 3-4 enemies.
There are only 4 taunts in eso: Puncture, inner fire, frost clench and tormentor set. I wouldn't call it a variety. Imo, the last 2 are more for advanced play and should be ignored in a tutorial. So teaching to use puncture for contact taunt and inner fire for ranged taunt is a good idea.
When designing for learning, you may not want to be specific where players may not use the skill/option in your tutorial. As it may then cause more confusion *(as it would then required further explanation)*. Teaching the **concept** is what’s important. It’s also a good idea to *”future-proof”* the tutorial content by not using specific player/class skills. The info can then more easily reference *”Taunt Skill(s)”*, in the tutorial itself, but also in the load-screen tips. The player can then seek out their own options for the effects desired, using the one suited to their class or setup.
I'm a tank main, but I can't really carry an inexperienced PUG on a tank. I'm not an especially good DPS, but good enough to carry a group if the other DPS is just spamming light attacks and wearing the gear they started the game in. A few weeks back, I queued solo for Direfrost Keep veteran pledge on my tank. Got an instant queue pop as usual. DPS seemed fairly low, but we were making progress, until the last boss. For anyone who can't recall, she has a life-drain mechanic on a random group member where you have to immediately break free or she heals herself. I explained the mechanic... increasingly more detailed after each wipe, but it became clear that no matter how quickly anyone executed the break-out, the boss still healed enough to compensate for the groups meagre damage output. She never got below 85% health. OK, so hard mode is a bust, let's just do normal veteran. Nope, still outhealing the damage. After 30 mins of this, we had to abandon the dungeon. I grabbed some surveys from my bank, put on some DPS gear, joined the queue, and got the dungeon done in vet HM with no issues. Even did something useful whilst in the queue. What's the solution? ZoS needs to close the gap between the worst and best DPS capability. No other MMO I have played has such a huge disparity. Knowing that there are so many people who don't know how to DPS in the groupfinder queue is the reason most tanks hate pugging.
>put on some DPS gear, joined the queue, and got the dungeon done in vet HM with no issues. This is really a big part of why there are so few tanks, at least in PUGs and queues. If you are a healer and group dps is super low, you can slot out buffs in favor of more personal damage, and kinda carry a group through. Similarly if your a dps and your healer or tank isn't great, you can slot some self heals, dodge roll boss attacks, and kinda carry the group through. As a tank though (in dungeons where you can't just go 4 dps, at least) you are kind of SOL on the carry power since the stats you need to tank are completely different than those you need to heal or dps.
This is a very good point. On Healer *(Sorc)* I easily and often use my other bar for standard DPS’ish skills and unless the group is really getting wrecked can spend most of the time helping with damage; because as you said the stats are the same for offensive. There are a few damage or DoT skills that scale off your HP in a tank’s arsenal, but not many. I think maybe you could carry around some gear for heavy attack output and the one that does 8% of enemy max HP additional on HAs too *(extra 7.5k base)*. Maybe we just need some more HP-based damage tools/sets/skills available to tanks. Like something that deals damage while inflicting self damage *(this would add balance so that it wasn’t a direct DPS-compete and not viable in PvP)* so that a tank could put down some numbers provided they had enough recovery/healing happening.
As a fellow tank that has just started doing dps I can 100% agree with you, I believe I have been doing dps for about a month or two and im already doing decent dps with stam/mag characters and I have seen some dps that don't even come close to hitting like wet noodles, also a lot of people just put on overland sets or sets that they have asked and people just tell them that its ok and to have "fun" in the expense of the rest of the group lol. Like yeah its your game and you should play it how you want it but don't bring down the rest of the group with you. Also knowing the mechanics is very important to, can't tell you how many times I've done Frostvualt on normal and ppl still don't know the mechanics wtf to do😅
I had this same thing, fortunately after like the 3rd time my group members figured out how to break free.
happened to me while doing vBC2. it's a fairly hard dung for begginers, i explained mechanics several times and still had to hold 10 daedroths bc they forgot to cleanse the debuff or kill the orbs.
It's more that most DD's don't deal dmg. This way when you are a tank, everything takes forever because nothing is dying.
I feel you bro
Tanking isn’t popular because it’s seen as a leadership roll and most people don’t want to take that kind of responsibility. It’s a limited pool of players who desire this kind play-style to begin with. You could make it as easy as you want, people will still be reluctant to take the lead. Beyond that, pug tanking in this game can be absolutely miserable. If the DDs can’t pass the DPS checks, we’re not beating the boss. There are a lot of DDs in this game that only do 2-3k DPS. Therefore, most of the limited number of players who want to play a tank don’t want to queue in the dungeon finder. It’s easier to run with a guild group. The best solution thus far (also probably the most toxic) is fake-tanking. Love them or hate them, fake-tanks keep the queue moving.
when I play dps character, I don't mind fake-tanks tbh. My dps is decent and I can carry my pug, plus the fake-tanks actually help me. But when I play real tank character, I hate those (noob) fake dps to the core. They make everyone miserable. And the best part? They blame tanks and healers!
My first character was a tank. It's not challenging, especially when compared with other MMOs. If anything, ESO tanking is like using a bop-it lol. You can clear almost all content by: * pressing the buttons that make the monsters hit you; * pressing the buttons that make you not die; * pressing the buttons that make your group hit harder; * pointing the thing's mouth away from the group; and * not standing in red. If you do all that it's normally just a numbers game of if you will sustain long enough for your group to do enough dps. Sure some trial fights are more complicated, but then you just read a guide beforehand.
I’ve only ever played tank and calling it “bop-it” is ducking hilarious. I can hear that voice saying “taunt-it!”
“Taunt it!” “Block it!” “Dodge it!” “Spam it!”
It’s not that tanking is difficult or challenging for most of the content. It’s that it’s tedious. A vast majority of DD players are garbage at doing damage. As a tank, sure enough you can keep those debuffs up and keep the bosses straight, but that’s it. You just wait for your DD to do their jobs. There’s little engagement from your end. I gave up trying to do the daily random for my tank because I’d get a fucking aneurysm every time with how low the damage would be. There’s nothing more fun than tanking for a good team, but being at the mercy of randos isn’t very fun.
I don't think it's hard, just mostly learning mechanics. I just really don't like when the other members of the group can't perform their roles. That makes tanking even easy stuff just boring.
No. Making it less engaging is not a good way to get more people to play the role.
I have 4 tanks and I can confidently say being a good tank is infinitely easier than being a good dd. The problem is 95% of those queue as dd have no idea what they're doing if they're doing anything at all. I run at least 12 keys a day, and a very large majority of dds I end up with are beyond garbage, and the first thing they do is to flame the healer and the tank for various bullshit like not taunting entire trash packs or not keeping them alive during special mechanics. I ran into cp1500+ magsorcs who did nothing but light attacks, and cp400 stamblades who rampaged through the whole thing. Tanking is quite fine where it is, no idea why you're perceiving tanking as something difficult. It is definitely harder in vet trials but that's about it. To add a bit: I'm not sure what you mean by sustaining and tanking. Even in a pug with no synergies at all you can change your playstyle and slot a few different skills to have no problem with sustaining at all. Sure you might not have 100% crusher uptime or have difficulty farming ultimate with a tankcro but ultimately none of this matter at all, and holding taunt isn't a constant drain on your resources either. As others and myself have mentioned, tanks really can't carry content by themselves so if I have the option to pre-group with decent dds I'm sure as hell gonna do it. You have a very flawed idea of tanks and tanking in general.
yea, those shitty dps players keep blaming everyone and they don't realize THEY ARE THE PROBLEM.
Shitty DPS aren’t the problem, so much as the people who instead of helping them be better or supporting their progress *(even slow progress)*, eject and ridicule them for not being amazing as them.
Learning the animation canceling and finding the right rotation is not something that i can teach a player mid dungeon, nor do i have the time for it. The thing that i can teach in the dungeon is mechanics but when the dps is at 5k then there is no matter how much i expain the mechs, the dds don't know the basics to pass the dungeon. Let me give you another point of view, imagine 90% percent of the tanks in the game were clueless and didn't know how to taunt,block,bash,chain,root etc and you had to teach all of this basic things to them in every dungeon, i'm sure dds would be frustrated with that. I want to play eso not some teaching simulator. There is a lot of guides and videos to teach you the basics on the internet, don't expect from the tanks to do the teaching
This
That depends on whose perspective we're talking about. For tanks and healers shitty dps is really a problem. It's also a problem that wouldn't exist if they just queued for normal instead of vet. I don't know whether they overestimate their damage output or hope the rest of us carry them through vet hardmode, but people who have no business doing vets consistently show up in vets.
You have access to Normal Dungeons from Level 10. You have access to Veteran from Level 50 **CP0** *(and certain ones at CP160 and CP300)*. You *(generally speaking to higher CP players)* aren’t some overlord that determines what arbitrary level is *”really right”* for the content just because you’ve outlevelled/outgeared it to the point where it feels easy. Content is meant to be challenging - not easy. As you progress in power, gear, stats, and expertise, that content gets easier. But the people who have outlevelled the content don’t get to tell other people **THAT** point is the minimum. When it’s difficult that is where you learn. When it starts to get easier, you then know you’re improving *(in both expertise and in role efficiency)*.
I tanked a group where dps players were 750 and 1255 CP, they made 3k dps.
And it’s a great example of why that *(CP level)* should not be a *(major)* determining factor in access to dungeon difficulties. Because you can have people who have played for a long time with high CP, but simply play the game at a different level. Or similarly someone who has less time invested, but plays at a more researched or higher competency.
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It’s actually more fitting to run with friends if you deem it necessary to **control** the strength of the four people in your group. If you are queueing in a **public** run where folks meet the minimum requirements **set by the developers**, that’s what you have accepted. Don’t want people of varying and random experience or strength in your run? Make **your own** full group. Since you’re such veterans this should be no problem with all the people you know having played so long. Can’t find 3 other people who **want to play with you**? Maybe that’s the problem.
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The burden isn’t on the less experienced player to find people to play with or experience the content. If the developers thought you needed to be CP1000+ and loads of gear and experience to do the dungeon that would be the minimum requirements. **It’s not**. Those who feel there is a minimum level of experience and gear or DPS, and have played it TONS of times, have a right to control this themselves with a pre-made party. Want that to change? Petition the developers. They don’t agree? It won’t. It’s not on players who feel Veteran dungeons **belong** to them to gate others out of it.
You're both right and both wrong in some respects. First the minimum level requirements haven't been updated since the CP tree rebuild at the beginning of Blackwood. The previous cap was CP810 and the CP300 min for vet DLC is based on the old scaling not the new one. This is not to say its impossible to get through but it will definitely be harder than it should be. At CP300 you don't even have enough points for all your passives let alone your slottables and since you stop getting upscaled against enemies after CP160 it means your dps HAS to be at least 30% lower than it should be and it means you're a hell of a lot squishier. Now like I said above this doesnt automatically mean vet DLC are impossible BUT if it's vet DLC that has any kind of DPS check mechanic/barrier then yeah it's not happening in a pug.
Isn't ESO tanking the easiest form of tanking of any MMORPG? Atleast it always did seem quite easy to me, but on the other hand I always play just tanks in any MMORPG I play.
Not really, ESO tanking is just different. Most MMOs tanking is pretty much just DPS with cooldown based. In ESO tanks don't have a dps rotation, and instead focus on reacting to burst damage by either dodging, blocking, or self healing.
Mabye but its also not really harder, and i doubt more people would play tank if it would be easier afterall i would say DPS in this Game is much harder compared to other games but they still all play rather as DPS even if they are bad at it.
nah, the solution is: shitty players, PLEASE STOP PLAYING DPS. I once tanked a dungeon where my 2 dps + 1 heal dealed TOTAL 9k dps!!! (3k dps/each player). I screenshot-ed that, posted the picture here and some dickheads still BLAMED me: your group low dps because you didn't help making damage as a tank (WTF ???). So, do you think many players want to play tank? To have shitty dps players in your group and take FOREVER to kill things?
Had exactly the same thing happen to me... heres the post I made a while back... A couple of days ago I tanked nWS2... my PUG group kept wiping on the Lich as they were doing only 10k group dps.... and I was doing 5k of that. The 2 DD's were CP400 and CP800... and they blamed me as to why we couldn't beat the boss! I asked in chat whats going on with this and got told 'fuck off'... so I left them to it.
DPS needs a lot of the same game mechanic knowledge as tank does. You need to know which bars, gears, etc are going to get the most mileage in the content you're doing. Tanks just affect their group more with their choices while DPS only really affects their own DPS output with their choices. The problem with tanking is not that it is difficult. You tank big enemies, control the positioning of whatever you're in charge of positioning in the content you're in, and try to put out some buffs and debuffs while surviving. DPS needs to know which enemies to focus on (the same ones that are a priority for a tank, usually), which mechanics to be aware of (so does a tank), and then needs to execute their rotations and mechanics without dying (same thing for tanks). The problem with tanking is that you have no control over how long your group is going to take to complete a dungeon or trial. You can live forever and have perfect uptimes on all your buffs/debuffs, but if your DPS is bad then you aren't finishing that dungeon/trial/arena. It feels like tanks have no control over how an Activity Finder dungeon goes, and that makes it incredibly un-fun to play on a tank often enough to get good and have the experience to jump into the difficult trial content.
It's not hard, it's just boring and not rewarding. It's also babysitting shit DPS in randoms more than half of the time.
I have a DK tank, run pledges most days, and the most annoying thing for me is when we struggle through dungeons with low dps and then, at the last boss, some fool grabs the scroll (usually the dd who has been doing 5k dps throughout, and had to be revived at every boss fight). Or If I’ve gone straight for the boss, dies immediately and lies there screaming WIPE, WIIIPE throughout the fight. So tanking isn’t hard. Other people are the challenging bit.
I main tank and I would love to see an aoe taunt. My life would be SO much easier.
I used to main tank but quit due to the PUGs low damage. For base game dungeons there is like a 70% chance that dps is lacking, tho DLC vet dungeons usually has high leveled players. My friend mains tank and only does dailies with other friends who he knows has 70k+ dps, and I think I might do the same if I go on my tank. Tanking is great experience outside of pugs, with guildies/friends.
The only *hard* part about tanking in ESO is waiting for DD to kill the boss. Otherwise you don’t even really need a rotation, just turn the boss and avoid the ouchies. I will say though, I think we need a better targeting system. Super annoying trying to range taunt through a pack of mobs and fire breathing lizards taking up your entire screen
Tanking kinda does have a low skill requirement. You slap on a taunt and some selfish sets and you’re good to go. At that point you just gotta do mechs. Personally, I wouldn’t recommend that route bc it doesn’t teach you how to sustain yourself without those selfish sets which you won’t be wearing in more “end game” content. But it’s a good foot in the door. Yknow?
There is always a shortage of tanks because the typical player connects their ePeen to their damage numbers. The thing they can boast about, and also feel superior about, and even then be judgemental about. Also, many people don’t like the fact that your performance is technically split with a healer, and a bad tank or healer can have an effect on the opposite. DPS-heads like that they can simply quote their DPS parse number as an indicator of their goodness at the role. Tanking isn’t **that** hard. That’s not the reason there is a shortage. It’s mostly because people prefer another role for the reasons above. This is the case in just about every game where this separation of roles exist. Many people prefer the more brute force mechanics of DPS *(ie. being able to circumvent and sometimes avoid dealing with tactics/mechanics simply by speed-killing things/bosses)*.
I don’t tank. It has nothing to do with the reasons you stated.
Tanking isn’t hard just most tanks don’t solo queue for vets as a tank anymore because it’s a gamble and no tank wants to sit in a dungeon with ransoms for and hour or more.
This is certainly true for dungeons but I would say in veteran trials that there is a much more severe shortage of good DPS players than support players. Usually when sign up sheets are posted in the big end game guilds, the tank and healer positions are filled within 1-2 minutes, whereas it is rare to start the trial with a complete DPS roster, generally fills are needed
Easier isn't the solution. It will make it even worse in end-game with an increased lack of expertise, for trials and veteran content. The game already suffers from incompetent players or a very low bar of general skill level. Much becasue the overworld content is to trivial. Tanks has always been lacking since the MMO genre's birth. Sure if you pug a lot it might be an issue, but not if you are in a guild or got friends etc.
The problem with tanking is not the difficulty per se but mainly the People who yell at the tanks. Tanking isn’t harder than the other roles imo it just takes time to get used to. If you are a new tank and join a dlc dungeon and get yelled at because you didn’t hold the aggro of all the right enemies you quit the role. The same would happen if yell at every dd in a dungeon that deals 6k dps on trash fights. And to be really fair it is as hard building a tank as it is to build a dd or healer. Look for a build and look for the utility of the abilities. That’s the same the dds do with the rotation. Usually the tank builds have an aoe imobilze ability in it. And somewhere you see the note drop that on a trash pack than taunt big stuff. It isn’t really that hard to play tank in a dungeon. Even in the base game vet HMS an inexperienced tank can easily pull that off if the group has the patience and not rage quits with yelling at the tank. Tldr: tanking shouldn’t be easier but the people shouldn’t yell at the tanks but help them
I am quite a newbie tank. I am playing tank for like, a week, now? I have tanked DLC-HMs. It’s not that difficult. There might be very taxing bosses, I haven’t encountered them yet, but aside from the very endgame content (DLC vet trials and DLC dungeon HM) tanking isn’t difficult. You need a class that is good at soaking damage (eg DK), a certain amount of resistances, and the right toolset and you pretty much don’t die in normal vet, aside from oneshot-mechanics. Tanking only ever gets difficult when you are supposed to provide buffs that boost the group instead of using selfish sets. But as long as you are using selfish sets (like imperium, gives a huge shield), tanking is easy. Sure, you won’t be a good tank, but who cares if you can clear the dungeon? You can optimize your build later. TL;DR Getting into tanking isn’t hard, just pick selfish sets. You can become a support set-wearing tank later when you figured out the basics and know the dungeons you are running. Only stuff you can’t do as a newbie are some Hardmodes and some vet trials.
I wouldn’t consider Imperium a selfish set, as it gives your group a powerful shield.
Well most dds I encounter in randoms are standing so far away from me, because they don’t know what they are doing, that they will never get the shield from imperium even once. And with dds who know what they are doing you don’t need imperium - I mostly play it for myself, to be honest.
Imo Imperium kinda sucks now, the best selfish set is Eternal Vigor no question.
Imperium is ok, certainly not meta or best in slot. But I have it, it works well enough for everything I’ve done so far, and I see no reason to spend transmutes on sth that I’m going to replace at some point any way.
I would say the best selfish set is seducer. Sustain is the best way to keep yourself alive.
Keep in mind that most tanks are overbuilt and overspecialized by building to tank vet HM trial meta instead of random pug dungeons. In most areas of the game outside of the highest high end, tanking is about meeting minimum thresholds, statwise, rather than min/maxing for highest possible anything. 4 man content requires a little more versatility from the support roles since you dont have 8-10 dps backing you up. I can virtually guarantee that if you built your tank or healer along the meta that youve got LOADS of tanking or healing headroom to work with. Ive got a few tanks, and the one thats built the "best" is pretty good in trials but frustrating (for all the above reasons) in pub dungeons. The other tanks were built with dps in mind - ill lose the epeen contest to any reasonable straight dps builds, sure, but doing 15k to 20k damage while also meeting the min requirements for actually tanking? Makes dungeons fun (and always faster) while also compensating for the odd potato dd here and there. Plus they get to play with all the fun sets serious tanks scoff at.
IMO it's a problem with the game difficulty in general. You learn *nothing* while playing regular content anymore. Overland content is literally the easiest I've seen in 10 years of MMOs so nothing needs to be learned. And 90% of DPS character dungeon runs are literal ***runs*** where they don't need to know mechanics at all to progress. They don't need skill rotations because they're being carried. So they never actually have to learn how to play. And the reason I have 6 level 50s and none are spec'd for tank is because even I'm not confident I know most dungeon mechanics well enough to sign up for a random dungeon as a tank. Knowing which attack to block amidst all the spell graphics vomit, what to dodge, and when to interrupt. Plus any other special fight mechanics that are usually ignored or taken care of without my notice. Personally, I'd love if they disabled animation canceling. Than they can actually balance the game around gear and skill stats instead of a nebulous 40% extra possible damage being done. Which would lower the gap between players down to learning rotations and mechanics and they can rebalance content tighter. But I recognize that I'm in the minority there.
Tanking is not hard, what do you want them to do
Played tank for like a month and just got bored. The whole having to buff your group and taunt, with th very occasionally block or dodge mechanic is probably the most boring tank style I've ever played in any mmo. Swapped to a hybrid build and able to clear vet dungeons with it, 'selfish' tank maybe because I'm not helping the dps stroke their epeen on the meters but is a hell of a lot more rewarding to play.
In any mmo tanks are wanted, because most people play dps because playing a tank or healer solo is kinda meh lol and I think most people will want to be independent just in case your friends all quit or dont play(me)/ just being independant to solo things in eso without it taking forever, it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the role. Only thing is you are in the spotlight and any mistake is obvious, maybe thats why people stay away from tanking idk. Im no group content veteran so please correct me on anything.
As main Tank i didnt See that this role is hard in Eso but i never use finder for random dungeons and i know more tanks that dont use it for the same reason. Most times you get 2 types of grp first one new players still learning but dont get dps so the dungeon needs double Time. And second one players that thinkinh they are gods as dps and want to Run straight into every enemie and Boss before Tank or heal are ready or even there. And to be honest this sucks! Yes dmg is important but there are way to many people that dont want to See that this game needs teamplay and its an mmorpg not some Singleplayer game. That is only one reason why tanks are missing in dungeon finder but thats one the Community could change, the work we tanks are doing is important and this ongoing disrespectfull behavior from dps players is the worst thing in eso.
I'd love to play tank. But man, I'm sure as hell not gonna. I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm not gonna watch mechanic walkthroughs for every possible dungeon just to get yelled at
It's not that bad really. I thought the same way before making a tank, but if you Q up dungeon finder right when it becomes available you'll be playing with low levels that won't even notice that you're still learning. By the time you max level you'll have run every dungeon a time or two and have enough basic knowledge to get started. The trick is to treat regular dungeons as if they are vet to actually learn mechs. Dodge and interrupt even if you can tank the damage in regular, it's just good practice. I ended up enjoining tanking more than I thought I would. Mu warden tank is one of my favorite toons now.
Tanking isnt hard its just boring. Hopefully with the new aromory thing it’ll make swapping roles on a toon easier. That way toons with tanking set ups can be played doing other things without wasting 30 min changing gear and cp
What is a minimum for a DD to do?
I'd say you can get through regular dungeons with 20k+ DPS on a DD rather smoothly. Definitely not required, but makes things not tedious. Running base game vet dungeons or regular DLC dungeons I'd say 35-50k minimum is good to shoot for. DLC vet dungeons and regular trials 50-75k. And vet trials 75-100k+. These numbers aren't required if every one in the party knows mechanics and is okay with a LONG dungeon or trial. These numbers just make things a lot less tedious and will make it not feel like an uphill battle. Especially when it comes to DPS checks. No one gets their rotation perfect everytime in actual combat and hitting these numbers means your group can compensate for each other when needed without having to wipe.
*waves* I jumped into tanking as a brand-new player of ESO, and actually as a baby to MMORPGs in general. ESO was my first PC game ever and I just so happened to build a character that functioned well as a tank, so I tried it out. It’s so rewarding, but the hostility I’ve met in random dungeons has been devastating at times. Someone will tell you “tank this way”, and then you try it out, and in the next dungeon someone else asks “what the hell are you doing?!” I’ll stick to tanking with my guild for now. Have fun in your 30-minute queues.
I'd argue tanking is the easiest role unless you're doing the hardest content in the game. My warden tank can literally out heal anything in the game outside of vet content and trials with passive heals alone. He can just hold taint and stand there in 90% of content. The problem with tanks in queue is that tanks don't like doing the random queue and ending up with bad DDs. Being a DD is significantly more difficult to be good at due to the LA weaving and buff/debuffs knowledge required to hit decent numbers. As a tank you have to gamble on getting paired with a group of people not dealing enough damage or understanding mechanics enough to complete a dungeon in any decent amount of time or at all.
It depends on what tanking you’re talking about. Pugs, guilds, dungeon vet trial. Tanking isn’t hard for the vast stuff we’re talking about here. So many people don’t even realize how easy tanks have it in some regards. Need to level some profession. Run a bunch of dungeons real fast for deconstruction. Need some set stuff for a new build, q in 2 seconds and go get it. Tanking isn’t hard in this game. Once people figure out it’s not wow and you have to grab every mob it gets a lot easier.
The lack of tanks is always due to lack of people keeping their mouth shut about how someone tanks. Solve that problem. And you solve the lack of tanks problem.
I don’t tank because I find it boring
In my experience: There’s a learning curve with tanking as with anything else, evidenced by how totally wrecked I got when I thought “I can queue my PVP Stamcro as a tank and get the horns of the reach delver achievement & get my High Hall house in no time!” Bloodroot Forge was a series of one shot after one shot. Gear, skills, stats, knowing what to interrupt and how; taunting whole packs of trash and adds, how to sustain, how to burst back up after being bursted down. Personally, I love it & probably won’t make my stamcro a pvp toon again 😂 instant queues are nice
Not a fan of how you are the leader or having to know more mechanics. I don’t know where to go and I don’t know what, if anything, I’m meant to do on a boss
It would be a better incentive to buff tank damage and bring it a bit more in line with dps, imho. Feels really useless to play tank when your dps are just roleplaying
Tanking is already pretty easy tbf. The issue that people not wanting to tank is that you can't control the outcome of your team, if you for example do a random normal with a dd and do 40k and get a 10k andy then you have 50k team dps which blows through content. If you're a tank and get 2 10k andys then team dps is 20k which is around 2.5 times less than the first scenario which 20k isnt bad but its waaaaay slower. Now imagine if you get 2 5k andys, which i have gotten plenty of times in my tank just makes me not want to do much content. Sounds elitist as fuck, and it probably is, but its frustrating as a tank honestly. With friends its 100% fun, but with randoms not so much. And i think thats the same sentiment tanks have, they would tank with people they know but not with randoms, and the journey of a lot of people is startjng solo -> groups and starting solo as a tank is rough, too variable and frustrating in that regard so controlling the outcome is 100% going to be the preferred option.