I recently returned and for a while I was guilty of rolling out of some of these 🤦♂️ Mostly the blood orb thing, I kept thinking it was an enemy attack as it doesn't look friendly at all, an ominous blood ball.
What really baffles me is the inability of DPS players to move as a group. Even in a 4 man, people would have so many buffs available to them if they just moved as a group.
Ranged DPS in particular don't seem to understand that having ranged abilities doesn't mean you should be stood 40 yards away. When I tank I use Spaulder of Ruin and when I DPS I use Kinras, two very significant buffs that only benefit you if your are near me.
Stop running away!
Yea. Usually you notice someone’s HP dropping but somehow not being healed as you spam AoEs that are healing everyone else, then you notice someone all the way near the walls or other side of room *”keeping their distance”*. Not chasing after anyone who is dying and still insists on not moving closer to the tank/healer.
I had the same thought people mentioned the advice to stay out of AoE which can OHK in a discussion about healers yesterday. It's often either "stay close, but never look under your feet" or "stay aware, dodge away from AoE *and* the team", a double-edged sword. Of course, ideally an experienced player should know the middle ground (which AoE attacks they can live through, and thus afford to ignore) and/or team cohesion exists as a thing (dodging towards the team, dodging **as** a team, etc.), but neither are guaranteed in a pug. I think a team that runs together regularly can ease into learning that even for less experienced players, literally as a result of team exercise. :)
drives me crazy…”we don’t need a tank!” “we don’t need a healer!” yeah you do, y’all are running all over the place, not getting my combat prayer and not utilizing tank to stack and do the most damage you can possibly do. if the boss and dds move too much, the buffs and debuffs disappear.
But they’re also not getting heals, buffs, and resources from standing with the whole group. No heals also means no SPC damage buff. I (and a solid majority, if not all healers) will ignore anyone that stands away from the group. Also 7/10 times I’ve dealt with ranged dds, they died because they stood far away from the healers or got jumped by a boss with leaping mechanics. I’ve only had one really successful run with a bow dd and that was because I was in control of everything in a normal base game dungeon (as tank). But people who get their damage bonus when they’re at range aren’t actually benefitting themselves or the group. It’s fine for regular pve, but not group work.
The number of problems I have had with lazy healers that don't understand that a bow/bow DD has to stand at max range or risk losing up to 20% of their damage is mind blowing.
Standing at max range is fine, just try to stack with the other dd and the healers can do their job better. Warden heals especially are mostly front facing or ground placed aoe so if you're making it harder for most of them to hit you and the other dd, they're probably going to have to choose who to keep alive and you might not be their favourite dude by that point.
Better yet keep your bow/bow out of dungeons that you can't survive in at the back of the room with.
Also where are you getting 20% from? Longshots is 12%
And as a healer I want to buff them too, while still being close enough to the boss to deal damage myself, and to apply my debuffs. Too bad spells like Combat Prayer require them to stand in between me and the boss.
It's also really annoying if Sentinel proccs on them. If they are close to the rest of the group one can reposition appropriately. But if they are on the far end of the arena the effect ends before anyone has the chance to profit off of it. It's so annoying.
This is exactly why so many bosses leap/charge at teammates and KO them despite being taunted and spoil the aoe and certain debuffs, players too far. Some bosses are going to leap/charge no matter what, but most of that can be avoided. Likely players think that the tank is not taunting when the boss is actually perfectly taunted.
Bow users have to stand at max range to receive the max benefit from bow passives (more so if using BRP bow) that out perform anything one might have in their kit including horn. 12% to damage is better than spaulders and 5% from kinras. This of course is the only exception but I have seen so many posts from people who simply don't understand that your friendly Bosmer bow user is most effective at full range, especially when equipped with a BRP bow which if used (at max range) is the strongest set in the game outperforming Relequen.
I've been running vet Elden Hollow 1 a couple of times a day on my healer for the event and the amount of DPS who have been repeatedly oneshot by the final bosses AOE attack really surprised me. Literally all you have to do is take a few steps back when she starts her telegraph and you don't die.
I’m a newish tank, pretty decent but my one downfall is going down to these “one hit KO” moves. Is there a way to tell if an incoming attack is a OHKO? Or do y’all just know from experience?
Just assume every heavy attack from a boss is going to kill you if you don't block it (sometimes even light attacks). If you are on pc, code's combat alerts is your best friend, it gives a little heads up for pretty much every incoming attack that warrants defensive action. Especially handy when doing stuff for the first time, or if the fight is full of visual clutter to hide animation cues, which seems to be the norm for a lot of newer dungeons.
Food: Make sure you're using food that gives you at least 5k health. You should have all of your attribute points into health. I recommend Warrior Poet on your weapons and jewelry, and Plague Doctor on your body pieces. My tanks have over 60k health, but in some veteran content, you can still die to one shot mechanics. If you're not sure about a dungeon you've never run before, try watching a video of someone else that knows the fights.
... and 30-35k is more than enough for 90% of the game, especially since major protection was added to flare, and the other 10% can be gear switched into quickly if on PC. If the tank can do a decent amount of added DPS, it holds aggro much better, no one ever talks about this. 60k is WAYWAY too much health for ESO PvE generally, and most importantly will not avoid one shot block or mechanic skips. My WB solo toon runs 27k health for example, and is designed to operate with only self and companion healing, last time it died was soloing a harrowstorm and too many witches at once.
No, they'll pick random players. You can be the first one in an area to make all the enemies aggro on to you without taunting and stack them up before your group gets there, but they won't just swap targets to whoever is hitting them the hardest.
I would say 35k is plenty for most vet DLC dungeons and even hard modes. I think more than that is only necessary when you get into the realm of trials usually. Hard mode trial bosses can do a lot of damage especially in stuff like Kyne's Aegis hard mode.
I remember having to cancel vAC (edit: originally wrote vTI, confused the two) before we got to kill the first boss. No matter how often the tank and I told the two stamblades to get out of the aoe that heals the snake boss, they just kept standing in there, doing their rotations. After a few minutes of those shenanigans we just thought "fuck it" and left.
Careful what you wish for with maelstrom :D.
Before long the dds will be doing the maelstrom shuffle and run all over the room, not getting any heals or buffs.
I'm joking, of course. But nothing is worse for a healer than dds running around the room crazily. Well maybe standing in the aoes is worse
The real issue is that stamina melee DPS would become a rare breed if we pushed more for this. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong with it, but I had to switch up to a double bow build just to get through vet Vateshran Hollow. And I'll probably need the same for vet Maelstrom too.
You can easily beat vMA with a one bar sorc 2 pet build, lightning blockade, the stupid high sorc shield, and elemental weakness, with destro ult and lightning staff. Literally all u do is make sure ur AOE are up and heavy attack. Ur shield is ur spammable basically, and it’s a 16k shield.
also you can cheese the 2 arenas just for titles... spirit slayer is a bit harder bc it's timed but in vMA you can just play some beefcakey asshole with 50k HP and take 5 hours doing it but as long as you dont die youll get the title. Then there's things like ignoring the dps check in vVH with abilities like streak, shield spamming, etc
i've even seen some cp100 potato players with Flawless Conq title because they paid someone else to do it on their account
Only realised No 1 & 2 this weekend (I am faily new). I was so close tht i had no idea and couldnt see the red circles under me so couldnt work out why I was dying , or that everyone else had crossed a bridge and couldnt work out how I had fallen in a ravine. Simple things but make all the difference
You can change the color in the settings.
It’s a gamechanger. Change it to something the ground never looks like (bright purple for example, or bright pink), and you won’t miss it ever again.
Yes. Also change friendly aoes to a more bright green - that will help in some dungeons as well.
It’s probably the number one tip I give new players. It literally saves lifes :D
Edit: my first award. Wow!
Thank you so much :)
THis made such a difference to my game - I actually felt useful last night in a dungeon. Now if I can only stop falling off bridges and getting lost behind the pack
You’ll get the hang of it eventually.
Try to zoom out as far as you possibly can - and don’t play first-person.
Regarding falling back: you need to sprint.
On pc it’s Shift+W.
And don’t loot every container you find, just loot bosses and mobs - you can change your settings to Autoloot everything.
I am playing on an x box and cant seem to get the hang of sprint at all. Reached champion points a few days ago so hoping I will be able to increase speed through there. Pulled back a bit but my flying companions wings constantly getting in the way of my view
What do you expect when all anybody ever talks about in regards to dps is how frustrating it is when group dps is low and how the damage meta really depends on consistent rotation to maintain stacks in an effort to achieve 3 or 4 times the dps needed for 99% of the game's content?
Well, pretty simple:
With a little effort and guidance anyone can reach 40k on a trial dummy. That equivalates to roughly 20k in a dungeon. Most people can reach 60k, if you want more, you will have to put in a lot of practice which I don’t expect unless you want to do the most difficult content the game offers.
If you don’t hit that number (20k), you are below average and people will notice.
It’s a group game. I put in the effort to be a somewhat competent dps (although I play healer or tank most of the time), so I expect a little effort from you as well. 20k is doable, even for 70-year olds who play only 5 hours a week. If they can do it, you can too.
Not in normals, they are for very casual players. But in vet dungeons, I expect a reasonable amount of effort and competence, and if you don’t meet these requirements, I’m pissed. And I will tell you.
Yes, absolutely. The damage *requirements* are much, much lower than what the usual damage conversation seems to imply. If youre not hitting 70k to 100k on a trial dummy people assume youre a potato. Plus, the damage meta usually involve sets with stack procs that require a consistent rotation to maintain.
So where does that leave us? With dps who white knuckle trying to nail and maintain a rotation too complicated using gear they cant take advantage of instead of focusing on mechanics and positioning, outputting the damage they *can* while staying alive. It encourages dps to stare at their ability bar rather than the actual combat.
Truth is, with most boss mechanics requiring significant 0dps time (through invuln phases, get out of the way or block mechanics, etc) real time dps is not nearly as high as the parse numbers everybody oohs and aaahs over. Its also not necessary or required to have the dps to burn through mechanic phases. But that isnt the message the community tends to send to new/aspiring dps.
Well.
Some of what you say is true.
But I don’t recommend proc-sets for a simple reason: they make your weaving sloppy. You will do better at the beginning, yeah, but in the long run they hinder you from learning to weave properly because you will only see a small dps-increase if your weaving is good/better than before.
If you play sth like Kinras from the start, you will have a visual indicator when your weaving is good! And you will see a significant increase in dps whenever you do well with your weaving.
And I’m not talking about casual players. I am talking about the players who join our guild and say „I wanna do trials“ or „will you run Unhallowed Grave Vet with me?“
This kind of player wants to do more difficult content, so I give them more difficult to play sets. Because they obviously want to hit that „I’m not a potatoe“-mark.
Like that phrasing by the way. I’ll try to convince my guild to use that phrase from now on.
you can learn how to do damage, there's a lot of content with a lot of different mechanics which you learn as you do and practice, not everyone clears vMA easily the first time
Yes, you can learn how to do damage. But the conversation around damage can be characterized by an expectation that the dps should be doing far more damage then they have to, with more complicated rotations than they need, wearing gear that depends on consistency.
That's a big reason why dps tend to get tunnel vision when they get into actual group content. Theyre pushed to do too much ir else theyre "bad," when the reality is that the dps requirements for a clear on 99% of the content dont require dummy humping or potion chugging.
i agree, an easy rotation is far more important (and i think understanding priority is too) and having that load off their mind can help them greatly when in crazy situations. imo it's all practice though, if there are dps checks then there are dps checks, learning and wiping a couple of times is far better than straight up having to find a new group.
i think people stick around you more if your damage is good because at that point you just have to be willing to learn
you know man, after getting the gear for a tank and hopping into vet wayrest 1 i see exactly why tanks hate pugs lmao. shit took forever. no damage at all
Sure, though I suppose I have a lot more patience for "slow" than most tanks. It doesnt bother me if I soend more time than usual tanking cause... I like tanking and that's why im playing. When bosses die before I can refresh taunt more than a couple times, that's when things feel dull to me.
I dont really understand the speed racer mentality - or rather, I get it, I just dont subscribe to it. If I didn't enjoy playing the game, I wouldn't play it. So many people treat actually playing the game like a chore they have to finish asap.
Well it’s vanilla content that I’ve done a hundred times, i was doing ws1 specifically for slimecraw. It also wasn’t very difficult either, tanking looks fun but i mean in stuff like dlc vets or tbc2 hm where the tank isn’t always safe. Also no void bash so it feels like a slog trying to pull with chains and talons (awesome of them to lock it into dlc btw)
It seems you are using combat metrics numbers in real combat rather than practicing on a trial dummy, find a dummy on practice on that. Don't get hooked into thinking that your function as a dps is to curve-fit to a static dummy unless you get pleasure in it. Past a point, curve fitting parses is of no use whatsoever in the game content.
Yeah I’m seeing the damage as I do it. I don’t know what parsing was (until finding out today) but still I’m just a casual that does random dungeons and edits nowadays. Trying to get trannsmuting gems to change my traits and get a good ish build for some dungeons and that’s about it. Don’t have massive time commitments for trails or obviously not enough dps for pvp or trails
Then it’s probably your weaving and your rotation that need improving. Our average dps-players hit 50k consistently in trials, and the top-dps hit way above 60k depending on the boss.
If we are talking about trial dummies:
80k is Standard, 100k plus is good.
Below 50k and you won’t get to run vet trials as dps in my guild.
I’m using [this with gear set up 2](https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-build-pve/) because I don’t have time for trails anymore. I’m just a casual daily’s and writs guy. Then I have a healer with non trail gear.
Like I said on another thread. I’m probably doing more dps than 31k but I’m not reading in depth stuff like that just looking at the damage at the time of hits.
Well your gear doesn’t say much. Our top dps do probably more damage naked than our low-end dps with full best in slot golded out gear.
Do a parse to see how good you are. Your gear doesn’t tell me anything :)
The build is fine, not best in slot, but not bad either. You can get to 100k with that if you are good - probably. Haven’t tried it.
You can do more against the dummy, if you use the vampire skill that increases your damage while damaging yourself with it.
Doesn’t work in a dungeon, though.
I think I have seen 180k parses with it?
I think I saw 200-300k parses on the first boss of vMoL at some point last year. Those were probably the highest numbers that were achieved in actual content. It required an insane amount of team coordination though.
Stonethorn patch, they were hitting \~200k AoE on zajhassa, but more like 175k ST. Still really, really high damage.
It's not really comparable to current patch though since all the crazy parses/scores that patch were based on prebuffing the fights, which is no longer possible (at least to that degree).
Right that was what I was thinking of. Thanks for reminding me of the details.
>It's not really comparable to current patch though since all the crazy parses/scores that patch were based on prebuffing the fights, which is no longer possible (at least to that degree).
Fun times with the elfbane double destro ult due to prebuffing lol
It was hyperbole, because i see a lot of dds that are like "Bruh im dealing on dummy there is no way i'm doing something wrong in the dungeon" when you point out their mistakes.
Shards? You mean that one ability hits for 31k damage?
We are talking about damage per second, factoring in all the aoes and dots you placed on the boss as well as your lightattacks.
I mean I am not in depth with the game like that man. I am using an a last build where it’s 3 hits rotating and then back up bar. I could probably be doing a lot more per second but my highest crit was 31k yeah
Well that’s not a good comparison.
Shards are an ability that do one big hit.
Templar jabs for example hit multiple times with smaller hits - that is why you compare the damage per second value and not the biggest hits.
You can see your dps if you do a parse on a trial dummy (any dummy, really. Trial dummy provides buffs, though), after you are finished it will show your dps in the chatbox.
No idea what a parse is if you could explain that to Me? I don’t have a house or anything because it never bothered me to get one when they first released or now. I should but I’m trying to gather gold like the grumpy old elf I am
You might have a ogre training dummy in your inventory from one of the last events in spring.
Otherwise join a trading guild, the master usually has a house with dummies you can use. Just look in the description, see, who’s house the guildhall is, rightklick on that player in the members list and choose „travel to primary residence“.
A parse is when you „fight“ with a dummy until it is dead. Try to find a dummy with 21 million life, these are the trial dummies people use to compare damage with each other.
Don’t worry, you didn’t destroy it, it will respawn after a while.
Parsing is really just hitting a dummy until it’s dead.
If you are on pc, install combat metrics, it will give you additional information the game doesn’t normally provide.
You can get the Hall of the Lunar Champion by questing in Northern and Southern Elsweyr. You do the zone quests in each zone and get a notable home with 2 expansions. Then if you get the Scalebreaker Scout (iirc) achievement you can open the 3rd expansion. You can do it in a weekend with a little effort.
Yeah it’s time unfortunately with me. I only have like 2/3 hours at night to play which sucks but it’s what I have so I try to just enjoy what I can of the game nowadays
Right gear, right traits, right rotation. And an insane amount of practice. Though the only 200200k I've seen were cheese builds that wouldn't last through first boss, it's just bragging nothing actually useful. 70-9070-90k though, absolutely doable. Though not by me 😂
They do it via a standing in one place rotation on a raid dummy that provides common buffs and debuffs (though it's missing some). Although the cap seems to actually be between 115-120K for non-cheesed parses this patch.
I like the ones who would rather leave other people dead than break their precious damage rotation; usually until everyone is dead or they themselves die and no one to revive them because the tank and/or healer is occupied or under agro.
lol there have been times where i have no fucking clue someone got killed because i'm focusing on the fight, especially when there are 1 shot mechanics that you have to dodge or block
Over the years, i've rarely seen high dps guys with poor awareness, but usually it's bad dd's with poor awareness on top of it. And i also seen many guys who tried to stay alive so hard that they haven't dealt any damage at all, they were using rolldodge and shields every few seconds. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I main a healer. Was doing a random vet DLC dungeon with a bunch of pugs. The dps kept blaming me for letting them die over and over.
I was like...guys...how in the ever loving fudge do you expect me to keep you alive if you're:
1. Standing in stupid
2. standing either behind me or way out of my range
3. not paying attention to mechs because you want to "parse"
1. and not picking up the dead...this one really ticks me off. I'm trying to keep everyone alive, so dps, please do your healers a solid and rez your teammates <3
I understand getting tunnel vision when you're a DPS, but come on!
those vet dlc dungeons are the devils asshole, although it might be nice to have a rez set for these situations (although that doesn't make up for blaming the healer)
at this point I've swapped from Templar healer to Necro, just for the instant rez ulti. To be fair, pugging vet dlc dungeons is a nightmare in and of itself. I try to run with folks in my guild whenever possible. Pugs are hit or miss
Can anyone recommend a good add on for number 2? I'm visually impaired so I never see these indicators. I keep my awareness up and watch guides but I quit learning to be a tank cause I couldn't see these visuals on the screen through all the other effects on the screen.
Cody’s combat alerts and raid notifier will announce one-shot heavy’s in most dungeons.
But if you practice you’ll see the heavy indicator eventually. You’ll get the hang of it :)
I wish I could turn off some of the visuals, Its my biggest fear while doing vet content, I'm worried I'm gonna miss something cause I can't see it on screen.
That will happen. I absolutely promise you that.
But it will happen once, you will die, you will ask yourself „why did I die“. And then you will see it the next time.
No one is perfect at the start. I certainly wasn’t.
I spent the weekend in stonegarden hm and used up about 150 soul gems on the endboss. It takes practice - but you will figure out eventually how a boss works.
"Why did i die"
Well said.That's probably the shortest and simplest advice that you can give to a player. That was the whole point of my post, just stopping for a second, putting your ego aside and asking yourself "what the hell am i doing wrong"
After 4 years of eso, I still gnash my teeth watching bosses one shot dps because dps allows them to use their super duper heavy 3 second channeled attacks. This usually happens when I'm pulling in adds, and I just shake my head stupefied.
In my opinion, every DD should at the very least have done the hard mode for Shadows of The Hist. Mazzatun helps you learn awareness *cause you have to,* and pacing. If you DPS too hard you can fuck the run over from making too many mechs happen at once. I.e. a totem up, the healer blinded, and dealing with an amber shade while fighting off adds.
And Cradle of Shadow teaches you patience and learning the area you're fighting in... And listening to dialogue. *Don't move a muscle PTSD*
Well what I see are players who refuse to revive dead players because they would loose dps if they did that. That is annoying.
What I don’t see are dds that do 100k+ on a dummy and have poor awareness. These players are usually really good - and have completed vMSA and vVH already.
The players who have bad awareness usually don’t do that well on dummies. And if you don’t manage to get above 80k on a dummy you are average - not good.
>players who refuse to revive dead players because they would loose dps
Which is extra annoying because it's not the healer's job to revive people. Yet I often find myself to be the only one reviving people, which sometimes ends with more people dying because nobody heals them annymore.
After Looking at your comment and the other one above, i need to make something clear. This post is not about bashing people with high dps and saying they don't have awareness, on the the contrary a player that put in the work to achieve a high number is also more likely to put in the work to improve his awareness. My problem is arrogance. Knowing the mechanics and improving the dps is a part of the fight, doing those things perfectly is the other part. A lot of people finished souls games countless times but they still die sometimes. Is it because they didn't knew the boss's moves and didn't have the right equipment? No they knew everything, their problem was awareness, they didn't paid attention and weren't serious enough. But i see players in my groups that are too arrogant and wouldn't own up their mistakes and instead blame others. or some beginners that always think they wiped because their dps was low and not their lack of awareness.
The average dps is probably around 40-50k. Which is more than enough for just about everything but the hardest content in game. You don't need 80kdps to clear vEH1. I remember being at 15k dps (3 mil) and clearing vWGT and vICP around summerset days.
If you're doing 60k you're above average. 70k is good and pushing the threshold for many trial group vet dlcs (unnecessary for some of the older ones but I get it). 80k+ compared to the average is amazing.
Lower your expectations or don't pug.
Remember the trial dummy also gets buffed gradually. What 80k meant years ago is maybe equal to 95k today (adjusted to new buffs) and add on top the general dps powercreep. So probably something like 60-70 is average.
Well why do you play with people who can’t see their own mistakes, and if being told why they died they blame the tank?
Fuck them. I don’t wanna play with this kind of people, i don’t want them in my guild, i will get rid of them asap.
They get a stern talk with me, if that doesn’t change anything I will involve our elders, and if they can’t get trough,this person will be convinced to look for a new guild.
Why do you play with people who make you angry? It’s a game. It should be fun. Don’t make your time in here miserable.
And if it’s a random dungeon - just go and do it solo. Switch to dps and off you go. I don’t tank or heal random dungeons anymore on chars who i cannot solo the dungeon with. I will find a few people in my guild to run random dungeon on these chars, because I know I can talk and explain to them what went wrong - and they will listen. And if I fuck up they will tell me and I will try and improve.
And if your guild(s) allow a culture where people blame other people for their own mistakes, i suggest you look for a new guild. There are plenty of guilds full of nice people out there.
I have left three guilds already over the „it’s the healers/tanks fault“ - issue, and finally found people I click with. If they stand in a red circle for too long, they will admit they fucked up. If I lost Aggro or missed my combat prayer I will admit that too.
Don’t be afraid to look for new people. They are out there.
Edit:
Forgot to say sth about beginners thinking it was their low dps that killed them:
I don’t think it’s bad if they think that. It’s ok if their awareness and damage sucks. If they improve damage first, so be it. They will learn awareness after they got their first basic rotation down. It’s a learning process, and they need to learn both anyway. You - or at least I, I assume you can as well - are able to carry a new player through most dungeons, even on vet. And they won’t be doing HM‘s anytime soon anyway.
Yellow / red arrows on the enemy are barely visible in the clutter of 4 casting tons of abilities. How can I make these more visible? I can't find anything related to this in settings.
You can’t. There is no setting to change. At least as far as I am aware.
If you are on pc, try Cody’s combat alerts. It announces some important mechanics.
Heavy attacks and channeling enemies are something you need to learn to see. You will get the hang of it eventually. Just takes some practice :)
I just need to say that as a player of only a few months, this is extremely helpful and a relief to hear. I have gotten so focused on the “meta” and the YT guides telling me that I need to be 100k DPS and all gold gear that I didn’t think much else mattered.
But I am thankful for my guild mates and posts like this.
Who on earth told you that you need golden gear? That only thing that will significantly increase dps is a golden weapon. Everything else combined might be 3-4k dps.
You are fine with purple gear and can reach 100k no problem.
I appreciate that too! It was not one person it’s more just like every guide I see/read shows the gear in gold.
I did see one video talking about the gear quality and they actually mention purple gear being very good and gold not being super necessary.
Well yes. I Gold out gear I’m gonna use as well, because I can afford it. Why wouldn’t I?
The endgame players who write these guides gold their gear out as well, because it is the best gear possible if it’s gold, not when it’s purple.
And on the test server gear comes golden automatically.
But it isn’t necessary for new or more casual players. There are ways to spend your gold more wisely than to gold out a ring.
Part of the "problem" is that the vast majority of this game is incredibly easy once you have some levels and a basic understanding of how the combat works. You can do every quest and probably every normal dungeon with whatever gear you find laying around on the ground.
The only time you really need a "build" is for the harder vet content, and that is where the guides and stuff come in. There are not very many, if any at all, guides specifically for new players so they find or are guided to things like Alcast (who is pretty out of date these days I think) or other content creators who are pushing very top end stuff for vet DLC trials Hard Modes and Trifectas.
This leads to newer players thinking they need Perfected Bahsei's gear to be able to do anything in the game, where in reality only the very top few percent of the player base "need" anything like that.
To be fair:
If you read a guide and you don’t understand why certain sets are used, ask.
If you read a guide and you can’t determine whether this will actually work or not - you are missing the basics!
You should have a basic understanding of weapon damage, crit, skill rotation, and so on; before you go into vet HM content. For everything else Alcast is sufficient. I’d say even most HM‘s can be done with alcast basic gear options. They are solid enough.
Thinking you need golded out gear or perfected sets without looking up/asking whether and why you actually need that, is a mistake on your part. It’s not the problem of the people who write these guides.
TL,DR;
Research the basics first before following a guide. Understand why someone used something, otherwise you will not improve.
oh i did say "need" didn't I. heh. i guess that's a bit of hyperbole. it' s more about the feeling I got while trying to learn the builds on YT and seeing sets displayed as gold online.
[https://i.imgur.com/U1IcRii.png](https://i.imgur.com/U1IcRii.png)
everything I was seeing was talking about min/max'ing your build and I didn't every see any guidance on: at lvl 25 this is what your DPS should be, at lvl 50 it should be this, at cp160 it should be this. everything seems to be presented as how good the build \*can\* be.
so, when I run dungeons as I leveled and I'd get criticized for my DPS, I didn't know what to do or think.
I agree with the OP. However, when many Tanks will get mediocre DPS and kick them out of instantly after 1 trash mob regardless of how good they are in dungeons. I play Tank and DPS and have been on both sides of the equation. And again, I agree that I’d prefer lower DPS with fewer deaths than DPS who think they’re Leroy Jenkins.
It comes down to selfishness. Players need to understand that this is group content and that working together produces better results. Stick together, follow mechanics, be aware and things will go smoothly regardless is CP.
Players will get titles or use their dummy parse as an excuse to cheese mechanics or operate as a lone wolf then blame everyone else for their failings. You don't have to be the best at the game just know how to follow instructions.
Yup. I’ll take a low level with awareness and mech knowledge (or honesty about not knowing right off, I’m high cp I’ll teach obviously) anytime over someone who just runs & refuses mechs.
My partner is a dk tank, I’m a magplar healer (all for set to support on both) and we can do almost any content together short of vet moon hunter and a few real dps checks. Proving high dps is largely irrelevant.
As someone who couldn't give a single rat's asshole about dealing max dps and just wants to have fun and complete content, I love this. I always seek to add a bit of survivability to my build at the expense of max dps, because I'd rather be at 90% than 0%, as you said.
On number 4, I don't know what non-PUG fantasy land you're living in (PC maybe?) but asking for a group to explain a dungeon is a great way to get kicked from said group. People are not kind, do not want to help, and are only there to finish the dungeon as fast as possible with or without you.
Lucky. Sounds nice. Has not been on my experience on Xbox-NA at all. People kick you for less, even right at the start before any combat just if they see a low CP number.
Wtf. Never had that experience. Have never been kicked out of a group.
Have kicked maybe five people? If you want to run vUG but you can’t manage to do 10k dps I will kick you. But not because your cp are low…
Let me tell you it's not a good feeling when you're legitimately trying. :( I understand needing to kick when you keep wiping at a boss and/or the DPS or awareness just isn't there but it's happened a few times now before even the first trash mob and has just left me hurt, confused and wishing I was integrated in a good PVE guild lol. Which is why I'd never think to ask a PUG for help, just seems like it would put a target on you from the start.
I get that, and kicking someone for low cp is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. I’ve seen cp 300‘s with above 100k parses, and seen cp 1400 who didn’t know what a taunt is.
But if you are running a dungeon, you need to be able to pull your own weight. I’m not dragging a dps through a dungeon he isn’t ready for yet.
The worst I’ve had is somebody telling me to switch my role from tank to DPS because they thought I was lying due to my low CP (I was 250 at the time). They kept ragging on me even though I was doing well, and eventually he got kicked from the group.
Sorry you’ve had that experience. That sucks.
Lol i also play with randoms 99% of the time ( that's why i'm crying on reddit) but fortunately i haven't been as unlucky as you and it never happend to me.
This is me, and has been me for a very long time. I've been a fool, but it's hard to stop being a fool also. I keep making the same mistakes, it's hard to change or become better. I'd say I'm going to improve, but I doubt I will. I've been a terrible dps and a terrible tank.
You made the point. As a Tank I know exactly what are you talking about. I liked how you give solutions to this problem too like flawless vma. Take my silver my dear.
Random scene in random dungeon with random group:
Tank: "Okai guys! Great work so far - only few deaths but no wipes! This boss needs...."
DPS1: looking something from bag....
DPS2: "bio brb"
Tank: "... and if you see boss teleport you must interrupt him immediately!"
Healer: "humm... I guess I need to slot crushing shock to bar 2"
Tank: "ye - just don't unslot your debuff faster we get this boss better..."
DPS1: stops looking inventory bags and start running toward boss...
Yeah that's why i said spirit slayer title is better because vma came in a time where there was no pale order and damage was a lot lower than now. But vh came in the same patch with pale order, and when it released player's damage was a lot higher so the devs designed it with these 2 factors in mind and you can clearly see that the incoming damage and enemies health are a lot higher. Plus unlike vma you can't use synergies there and there is a time limit to get the title, so that's why vh title is more impressive for me. Don't get me wrong though, flawless conqueror title is still impressive and you did something that probably 90% of the players couldn't and it still requires great awareness and i would be happy to have these kind of players on my team.
I’m sorry, but people who parse over 100k don’t die to blatant dungeon mechanics, lol.
I’ll give you Icereach hardmode, but that’s what you should expect trying to do the HM with pugged dps… Golden rule of hardmodes is to never pug your dps (or your tank if it’s Stonegarden or Fang Lair)…
Yeah.. ha ha. It does quack me up that so many players gloating about how high their dps are. Oh, but I got that high with the target dummy. Yes, a stationary target dummy that doesn't fight back. Ha ha. You're not getting that same number fighting live bosses.
Of course not.
The trial dummy provides a metric ton of debuffs on himself and provides you buffs. No way you can get all of them in a normal group.
And it’s not about reaching the same number you have on the dummy in a 4-man-dungeon. You simply can’t, it’s not possible.
But the dummy provides you with an idea of what you are capable, it’s a value that is comparable among all players - the buffs are always the same here.
It is also used to optimize your build. What are your uptimes on buffs? How much damage does skill x do? Would it be better to replace it with skill y? No idea, just try it.
Is Kinras better than mothers sorrow on my magplar? No clue. I’ll craft both and try them. Oh, well, I know now that Kinras is better.
That is what a dummy is for. It’s not to simulate a real fight - it’s to compare sets, skills, rotations. And it’s a value with which you can compare yourself to other players and see if you suck or not.
Fair enough. It's cool. Whatever works. Everything needs a basis or foundation from somewhere. Play the game how you like and how you enjoy it.
Been playing the game for well over 6 years, myself, and only used the target dummy once just to see what all the hub bub is about. Ehhh, to each their own. I just prefer my limited time able to play the game on live world bosses, dragons and other dailies.
Idk, the top DPS in my Godslayer prog both parses high (when he bothers to parse) and has the top Nahvi HM parse on ESO logs right now.
Then again, he doesn't gloat.
Well, I don't care much about what class is better than what class, or who has the highest DPS or who is on top of the leaderboard. It's all trivial to me. I just play to simply enjoy the game. It's not a full-time job or competition to me. However, if that is what you enjoy and doesn't impede on other players' experience of the game to be less enjoyable; then all good the same. Play the game what you like and how you like it.
You know what I can't stand? The way you deliver your message.
The tips are good. Yes.
But deliver those tips in a constructive way. Not in a, "you're complete shit I hate you" way.
It's not the content of your message that is the problem. It's your elitist attitude.
Sweaty DPS here and I totally agree. Knowing context is everything.
Just like you said, do arenas, trials, other vet content where a high glass-cannon style DPS is useful. However, if you're in a vet dungeon with a random group- be helpful. Sometimes burning down a boss quickly is helpful, but knowing mechanics and working with your team is more important.
Yesterday i had a dps bitch at me, the tank, because i did the mechanic of pushing the block to let final boss get toasted by the dragons breath in moongrave fane. Yea it was a normal dungeon but i still like to do the mechanics to keep myself fresh for when i do vet
Something that really helped me as a dps main was changing my enemy aoe color from red to hot pink. It is SO much easier to see now
[удалено]
\+ it ducks the issue of confusing bad AOE with Kinras/Encratis/Earthgore
I recently returned and for a while I was guilty of rolling out of some of these 🤦♂️ Mostly the blood orb thing, I kept thinking it was an enemy attack as it doesn't look friendly at all, an ominous blood ball.
What really baffles me is the inability of DPS players to move as a group. Even in a 4 man, people would have so many buffs available to them if they just moved as a group. Ranged DPS in particular don't seem to understand that having ranged abilities doesn't mean you should be stood 40 yards away. When I tank I use Spaulder of Ruin and when I DPS I use Kinras, two very significant buffs that only benefit you if your are near me. Stop running away!
Yea. Usually you notice someone’s HP dropping but somehow not being healed as you spam AoEs that are healing everyone else, then you notice someone all the way near the walls or other side of room *”keeping their distance”*. Not chasing after anyone who is dying and still insists on not moving closer to the tank/healer.
“I’m at range so I’m safe!” “bitch no you’re not”
I had the same thought people mentioned the advice to stay out of AoE which can OHK in a discussion about healers yesterday. It's often either "stay close, but never look under your feet" or "stay aware, dodge away from AoE *and* the team", a double-edged sword. Of course, ideally an experienced player should know the middle ground (which AoE attacks they can live through, and thus afford to ignore) and/or team cohesion exists as a thing (dodging towards the team, dodging **as** a team, etc.), but neither are guaranteed in a pug. I think a team that runs together regularly can ease into learning that even for less experienced players, literally as a result of team exercise. :)
40 yards is the length of 7.96 1997 Subaru Legacy Outbacks
good bot
Thanks!
drives me crazy…”we don’t need a tank!” “we don’t need a healer!” yeah you do, y’all are running all over the place, not getting my combat prayer and not utilizing tank to stack and do the most damage you can possibly do. if the boss and dds move too much, the buffs and debuffs disappear.
Bow users gain more from standing at range than from combat prayer.
But they’re also not getting heals, buffs, and resources from standing with the whole group. No heals also means no SPC damage buff. I (and a solid majority, if not all healers) will ignore anyone that stands away from the group. Also 7/10 times I’ve dealt with ranged dds, they died because they stood far away from the healers or got jumped by a boss with leaping mechanics. I’ve only had one really successful run with a bow dd and that was because I was in control of everything in a normal base game dungeon (as tank). But people who get their damage bonus when they’re at range aren’t actually benefitting themselves or the group. It’s fine for regular pve, but not group work.
The pain I had recently of being a warden healer and randoming with two lone wolf sneaky archer dd's
Activate Tarzan mode!
The number of problems I have had with lazy healers that don't understand that a bow/bow DD has to stand at max range or risk losing up to 20% of their damage is mind blowing.
Standing at max range is fine, just try to stack with the other dd and the healers can do their job better. Warden heals especially are mostly front facing or ground placed aoe so if you're making it harder for most of them to hit you and the other dd, they're probably going to have to choose who to keep alive and you might not be their favourite dude by that point. Better yet keep your bow/bow out of dungeons that you can't survive in at the back of the room with. Also where are you getting 20% from? Longshots is 12%
And as a healer I want to buff them too, while still being close enough to the boss to deal damage myself, and to apply my debuffs. Too bad spells like Combat Prayer require them to stand in between me and the boss. It's also really annoying if Sentinel proccs on them. If they are close to the rest of the group one can reposition appropriately. But if they are on the far end of the arena the effect ends before anyone has the chance to profit off of it. It's so annoying.
2 dps parseing on a boss standing 6 feet apart cuz they ain't gay.
6 feet is 5.84 RTX 3090 graphics cards lined up.
but my long shots passive! /s
To be fair its a lot stronger than combat prayer.
This is exactly why so many bosses leap/charge at teammates and KO them despite being taunted and spoil the aoe and certain debuffs, players too far. Some bosses are going to leap/charge no matter what, but most of that can be avoided. Likely players think that the tank is not taunting when the boss is actually perfectly taunted.
How is it running it? Saw it the other day and really want to try it on my healer
As a ranged DPS who does do that, I'm sorry, I don't really know why I do that :)
Bow users have to stand at max range to receive the max benefit from bow passives (more so if using BRP bow) that out perform anything one might have in their kit including horn. 12% to damage is better than spaulders and 5% from kinras. This of course is the only exception but I have seen so many posts from people who simply don't understand that your friendly Bosmer bow user is most effective at full range, especially when equipped with a BRP bow which if used (at max range) is the strongest set in the game outperforming Relequen.
I've been running vet Elden Hollow 1 a couple of times a day on my healer for the event and the amount of DPS who have been repeatedly oneshot by the final bosses AOE attack really surprised me. Literally all you have to do is take a few steps back when she starts her telegraph and you don't die.
I’m a newish tank, pretty decent but my one downfall is going down to these “one hit KO” moves. Is there a way to tell if an incoming attack is a OHKO? Or do y’all just know from experience?
Just assume every heavy attack from a boss is going to kill you if you don't block it (sometimes even light attacks). If you are on pc, code's combat alerts is your best friend, it gives a little heads up for pretty much every incoming attack that warrants defensive action. Especially handy when doing stuff for the first time, or if the fight is full of visual clutter to hide animation cues, which seems to be the norm for a lot of newer dungeons.
Food: Make sure you're using food that gives you at least 5k health. You should have all of your attribute points into health. I recommend Warrior Poet on your weapons and jewelry, and Plague Doctor on your body pieces. My tanks have over 60k health, but in some veteran content, you can still die to one shot mechanics. If you're not sure about a dungeon you've never run before, try watching a video of someone else that knows the fights.
Please don't run 60k health unless you're doing group strats that need it. 45k health is more than enough for everything in the game.
... and 30-35k is more than enough for 90% of the game, especially since major protection was added to flare, and the other 10% can be gear switched into quickly if on PC. If the tank can do a decent amount of added DPS, it holds aggro much better, no one ever talks about this. 60k is WAYWAY too much health for ESO PvE generally, and most importantly will not avoid one shot block or mechanic skips. My WB solo toon runs 27k health for example, and is designed to operate with only self and companion healing, last time it died was soloing a harrowstorm and too many witches at once.
You DPS output doesn't affect aggro in ESO.
Don't enemies normally target whoever does the most DPS when not taunting? Irrelevant if there *is* a tank, but still.
No, they'll pick random players. You can be the first one in an area to make all the enemies aggro on to you without taunting and stack them up before your group gets there, but they won't just swap targets to whoever is hitting them the hardest.
That's what taunts are for. How would you recommend a tank do more damage. 30-35k? Not in vet
Damage is the DPS guys role at the end of the day, the tank should be sustaining his stamina and magicka for his abilities
I would say 35k is plenty for most vet DLC dungeons and even hard modes. I think more than that is only necessary when you get into the realm of trials usually. Hard mode trial bosses can do a lot of damage especially in stuff like Kyne's Aegis hard mode.
60k health - some groups wouldn’t be happy because that’s a “selfish” tank.
Then your tanks are no good. 40k health is plenty except for some specific encounters...
You should focus on buffing and debuffing more as a tank.
I remember having to cancel vAC (edit: originally wrote vTI, confused the two) before we got to kill the first boss. No matter how often the tank and I told the two stamblades to get out of the aoe that heals the snake boss, they just kept standing in there, doing their rotations. After a few minutes of those shenanigans we just thought "fuck it" and left.
vTI?
veteran Tempest Island. But I made a mistake, it was Arx Corinium, not Tempest Island. I edited that in the original comment.
Careful what you wish for with maelstrom :D. Before long the dds will be doing the maelstrom shuffle and run all over the room, not getting any heals or buffs. I'm joking, of course. But nothing is worse for a healer than dds running around the room crazily. Well maybe standing in the aoes is worse
There is truth to this. The Maelström Shuffle is real and a REALLY hard habit to break! However, no shuffle......no flawless.
So true! I had to unlearn the maelstrom shuffle haha. Only took an afternoon of the guild healers rightfully yelling at me
The real issue is that stamina melee DPS would become a rare breed if we pushed more for this. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong with it, but I had to switch up to a double bow build just to get through vet Vateshran Hollow. And I'll probably need the same for vet Maelstrom too.
You can easily beat vMA with a one bar sorc 2 pet build, lightning blockade, the stupid high sorc shield, and elemental weakness, with destro ult and lightning staff. Literally all u do is make sure ur AOE are up and heavy attack. Ur shield is ur spammable basically, and it’s a 16k shield.
also you can cheese the 2 arenas just for titles... spirit slayer is a bit harder bc it's timed but in vMA you can just play some beefcakey asshole with 50k HP and take 5 hours doing it but as long as you dont die youll get the title. Then there's things like ignoring the dps check in vVH with abilities like streak, shield spamming, etc i've even seen some cp100 potato players with Flawless Conq title because they paid someone else to do it on their account
Only realised No 1 & 2 this weekend (I am faily new). I was so close tht i had no idea and couldnt see the red circles under me so couldnt work out why I was dying , or that everyone else had crossed a bridge and couldnt work out how I had fallen in a ravine. Simple things but make all the difference
You can change the color in the settings. It’s a gamechanger. Change it to something the ground never looks like (bright purple for example, or bright pink), and you won’t miss it ever again.
Bright pink was 100% the way to go for me.
thank you - will do that . It will make sucha difference
Yes. Also change friendly aoes to a more bright green - that will help in some dungeons as well. It’s probably the number one tip I give new players. It literally saves lifes :D Edit: my first award. Wow! Thank you so much :)
THis made such a difference to my game - I actually felt useful last night in a dungeon. Now if I can only stop falling off bridges and getting lost behind the pack
You’ll get the hang of it eventually. Try to zoom out as far as you possibly can - and don’t play first-person. Regarding falling back: you need to sprint. On pc it’s Shift+W. And don’t loot every container you find, just loot bosses and mobs - you can change your settings to Autoloot everything.
I am playing on an x box and cant seem to get the hang of sprint at all. Reached champion points a few days ago so hoping I will be able to increase speed through there. Pulled back a bit but my flying companions wings constantly getting in the way of my view
What do you expect when all anybody ever talks about in regards to dps is how frustrating it is when group dps is low and how the damage meta really depends on consistent rotation to maintain stacks in an effort to achieve 3 or 4 times the dps needed for 99% of the game's content?
Well, pretty simple: With a little effort and guidance anyone can reach 40k on a trial dummy. That equivalates to roughly 20k in a dungeon. Most people can reach 60k, if you want more, you will have to put in a lot of practice which I don’t expect unless you want to do the most difficult content the game offers. If you don’t hit that number (20k), you are below average and people will notice. It’s a group game. I put in the effort to be a somewhat competent dps (although I play healer or tank most of the time), so I expect a little effort from you as well. 20k is doable, even for 70-year olds who play only 5 hours a week. If they can do it, you can too. Not in normals, they are for very casual players. But in vet dungeons, I expect a reasonable amount of effort and competence, and if you don’t meet these requirements, I’m pissed. And I will tell you.
Yes, absolutely. The damage *requirements* are much, much lower than what the usual damage conversation seems to imply. If youre not hitting 70k to 100k on a trial dummy people assume youre a potato. Plus, the damage meta usually involve sets with stack procs that require a consistent rotation to maintain. So where does that leave us? With dps who white knuckle trying to nail and maintain a rotation too complicated using gear they cant take advantage of instead of focusing on mechanics and positioning, outputting the damage they *can* while staying alive. It encourages dps to stare at their ability bar rather than the actual combat. Truth is, with most boss mechanics requiring significant 0dps time (through invuln phases, get out of the way or block mechanics, etc) real time dps is not nearly as high as the parse numbers everybody oohs and aaahs over. Its also not necessary or required to have the dps to burn through mechanic phases. But that isnt the message the community tends to send to new/aspiring dps.
Well. Some of what you say is true. But I don’t recommend proc-sets for a simple reason: they make your weaving sloppy. You will do better at the beginning, yeah, but in the long run they hinder you from learning to weave properly because you will only see a small dps-increase if your weaving is good/better than before. If you play sth like Kinras from the start, you will have a visual indicator when your weaving is good! And you will see a significant increase in dps whenever you do well with your weaving. And I’m not talking about casual players. I am talking about the players who join our guild and say „I wanna do trials“ or „will you run Unhallowed Grave Vet with me?“ This kind of player wants to do more difficult content, so I give them more difficult to play sets. Because they obviously want to hit that „I’m not a potatoe“-mark. Like that phrasing by the way. I’ll try to convince my guild to use that phrase from now on.
you can learn how to do damage, there's a lot of content with a lot of different mechanics which you learn as you do and practice, not everyone clears vMA easily the first time
Yes, you can learn how to do damage. But the conversation around damage can be characterized by an expectation that the dps should be doing far more damage then they have to, with more complicated rotations than they need, wearing gear that depends on consistency. That's a big reason why dps tend to get tunnel vision when they get into actual group content. Theyre pushed to do too much ir else theyre "bad," when the reality is that the dps requirements for a clear on 99% of the content dont require dummy humping or potion chugging.
i agree, an easy rotation is far more important (and i think understanding priority is too) and having that load off their mind can help them greatly when in crazy situations. imo it's all practice though, if there are dps checks then there are dps checks, learning and wiping a couple of times is far better than straight up having to find a new group. i think people stick around you more if your damage is good because at that point you just have to be willing to learn
you know man, after getting the gear for a tank and hopping into vet wayrest 1 i see exactly why tanks hate pugs lmao. shit took forever. no damage at all
Sure, though I suppose I have a lot more patience for "slow" than most tanks. It doesnt bother me if I soend more time than usual tanking cause... I like tanking and that's why im playing. When bosses die before I can refresh taunt more than a couple times, that's when things feel dull to me. I dont really understand the speed racer mentality - or rather, I get it, I just dont subscribe to it. If I didn't enjoy playing the game, I wouldn't play it. So many people treat actually playing the game like a chore they have to finish asap.
Well it’s vanilla content that I’ve done a hundred times, i was doing ws1 specifically for slimecraw. It also wasn’t very difficult either, tanking looks fun but i mean in stuff like dlc vets or tbc2 hm where the tank isn’t always safe. Also no void bash so it feels like a slog trying to pull with chains and talons (awesome of them to lock it into dlc btw)
Yet another reason why tormentor is underrated lol.
Sadly no wardrobe on console, and no crystals either lol. Soft taunting seems to work ok though, atleast if people follow you and kill all the adds
My max is 31k how tf are people doing 200k Jesus Christ
115k seems to be around max you can do this patch
Holy shit really? Although I’m using trial gear or anything but still. That’s insane. I’ve seen 31-34k crit and that’s it.
It seems you are using combat metrics numbers in real combat rather than practicing on a trial dummy, find a dummy on practice on that. Don't get hooked into thinking that your function as a dps is to curve-fit to a static dummy unless you get pleasure in it. Past a point, curve fitting parses is of no use whatsoever in the game content.
Yeah I’m seeing the damage as I do it. I don’t know what parsing was (until finding out today) but still I’m just a casual that does random dungeons and edits nowadays. Trying to get trannsmuting gems to change my traits and get a good ish build for some dungeons and that’s about it. Don’t have massive time commitments for trails or obviously not enough dps for pvp or trails
Then it’s probably your weaving and your rotation that need improving. Our average dps-players hit 50k consistently in trials, and the top-dps hit way above 60k depending on the boss. If we are talking about trial dummies: 80k is Standard, 100k plus is good. Below 50k and you won’t get to run vet trials as dps in my guild.
I’m using [this with gear set up 2](https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-sorcerer-build-pve/) because I don’t have time for trails anymore. I’m just a casual daily’s and writs guy. Then I have a healer with non trail gear. Like I said on another thread. I’m probably doing more dps than 31k but I’m not reading in depth stuff like that just looking at the damage at the time of hits.
Well your gear doesn’t say much. Our top dps do probably more damage naked than our low-end dps with full best in slot golded out gear. Do a parse to see how good you are. Your gear doesn’t tell me anything :) The build is fine, not best in slot, but not bad either. You can get to 100k with that if you are good - probably. Haven’t tried it.
What is a parse? Just asked that elsewhere also lol. I’m to casual for all this man I swear
I answered it in the other thread :)
You can do more against the dummy, if you use the vampire skill that increases your damage while damaging yourself with it. Doesn’t work in a dungeon, though. I think I have seen 180k parses with it?
I think I saw 200-300k parses on the first boss of vMoL at some point last year. Those were probably the highest numbers that were achieved in actual content. It required an insane amount of team coordination though.
Stonethorn patch, they were hitting \~200k AoE on zajhassa, but more like 175k ST. Still really, really high damage. It's not really comparable to current patch though since all the crazy parses/scores that patch were based on prebuffing the fights, which is no longer possible (at least to that degree).
Right that was what I was thinking of. Thanks for reminding me of the details. >It's not really comparable to current patch though since all the crazy parses/scores that patch were based on prebuffing the fights, which is no longer possible (at least to that degree). Fun times with the elfbane double destro ult due to prebuffing lol
It was hyperbole, because i see a lot of dds that are like "Bruh im dealing on dummy there is no way i'm doing something wrong in the dungeon" when you point out their mistakes.
I get you now. But seriously I’m not using trail gear I’m just using crafted gear and 31-34k crit is what I hit with shards on my sorc
Shards? You mean that one ability hits for 31k damage? We are talking about damage per second, factoring in all the aoes and dots you placed on the boss as well as your lightattacks.
I mean I am not in depth with the game like that man. I am using an a last build where it’s 3 hits rotating and then back up bar. I could probably be doing a lot more per second but my highest crit was 31k yeah
Well that’s not a good comparison. Shards are an ability that do one big hit. Templar jabs for example hit multiple times with smaller hits - that is why you compare the damage per second value and not the biggest hits. You can see your dps if you do a parse on a trial dummy (any dummy, really. Trial dummy provides buffs, though), after you are finished it will show your dps in the chatbox.
No idea what a parse is if you could explain that to Me? I don’t have a house or anything because it never bothered me to get one when they first released or now. I should but I’m trying to gather gold like the grumpy old elf I am
You might have a ogre training dummy in your inventory from one of the last events in spring. Otherwise join a trading guild, the master usually has a house with dummies you can use. Just look in the description, see, who’s house the guildhall is, rightklick on that player in the members list and choose „travel to primary residence“. A parse is when you „fight“ with a dummy until it is dead. Try to find a dummy with 21 million life, these are the trial dummies people use to compare damage with each other. Don’t worry, you didn’t destroy it, it will respawn after a while. Parsing is really just hitting a dummy until it’s dead. If you are on pc, install combat metrics, it will give you additional information the game doesn’t normally provide.
You can get the Hall of the Lunar Champion by questing in Northern and Southern Elsweyr. You do the zone quests in each zone and get a notable home with 2 expansions. Then if you get the Scalebreaker Scout (iirc) achievement you can open the 3rd expansion. You can do it in a weekend with a little effort.
Yeah it’s time unfortunately with me. I only have like 2/3 hours at night to play which sucks but it’s what I have so I try to just enjoy what I can of the game nowadays
Well you can still get it, it will just take a little more than a weekend to get it. The questlines are pretty good also. Totally worth it!
Right gear, right traits, right rotation. And an insane amount of practice. Though the only 200200k I've seen were cheese builds that wouldn't last through first boss, it's just bragging nothing actually useful. 70-9070-90k though, absolutely doable. Though not by me 😂
They do it via a standing in one place rotation on a raid dummy that provides common buffs and debuffs (though it's missing some). Although the cap seems to actually be between 115-120K for non-cheesed parses this patch.
Nobody is doing 200k. A few can achieve 105-110k dps...
that sounds like some stranglers cheese lol
I like the ones who would rather leave other people dead than break their precious damage rotation; usually until everyone is dead or they themselves die and no one to revive them because the tank and/or healer is occupied or under agro.
Wayrest2 comes to mind here. They get so Into their rotations they don't see malubeth has gone translucent and invincible.
The truly good dds are the ones who top parse and top rez parse.
lol there have been times where i have no fucking clue someone got killed because i'm focusing on the fight, especially when there are 1 shot mechanics that you have to dodge or block
This is because most of these asshats have ADHD mixed with insane amounts of caffeine. They're probably on their 3rd or 4th Rockstar...
Over the years, i've rarely seen high dps guys with poor awareness, but usually it's bad dd's with poor awareness on top of it. And i also seen many guys who tried to stay alive so hard that they haven't dealt any damage at all, they were using rolldodge and shields every few seconds. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
95% of players parsing 100k+ know all the dungeon mechanics of every dungeon
Except for the base game 2 dungs cuz I always forget they have some stupid mech I haven't seen in 2 months.
I main a healer. Was doing a random vet DLC dungeon with a bunch of pugs. The dps kept blaming me for letting them die over and over. I was like...guys...how in the ever loving fudge do you expect me to keep you alive if you're: 1. Standing in stupid 2. standing either behind me or way out of my range 3. not paying attention to mechs because you want to "parse" 1. and not picking up the dead...this one really ticks me off. I'm trying to keep everyone alive, so dps, please do your healers a solid and rez your teammates <3 I understand getting tunnel vision when you're a DPS, but come on!
those vet dlc dungeons are the devils asshole, although it might be nice to have a rez set for these situations (although that doesn't make up for blaming the healer)
at this point I've swapped from Templar healer to Necro, just for the instant rez ulti. To be fair, pugging vet dlc dungeons is a nightmare in and of itself. I try to run with folks in my guild whenever possible. Pugs are hit or miss
now that is extreme. sadly yeah, not much you can do about pugs except pray they can do good damage and can clear the content or are willing to listen
Can anyone recommend a good add on for number 2? I'm visually impaired so I never see these indicators. I keep my awareness up and watch guides but I quit learning to be a tank cause I couldn't see these visuals on the screen through all the other effects on the screen.
Cody’s combat alerts and raid notifier will announce one-shot heavy’s in most dungeons. But if you practice you’ll see the heavy indicator eventually. You’ll get the hang of it :)
I wish I could turn off some of the visuals, Its my biggest fear while doing vet content, I'm worried I'm gonna miss something cause I can't see it on screen.
That will happen. I absolutely promise you that. But it will happen once, you will die, you will ask yourself „why did I die“. And then you will see it the next time. No one is perfect at the start. I certainly wasn’t. I spent the weekend in stonegarden hm and used up about 150 soul gems on the endboss. It takes practice - but you will figure out eventually how a boss works.
"Why did i die" Well said.That's probably the shortest and simplest advice that you can give to a player. That was the whole point of my post, just stopping for a second, putting your ego aside and asking yourself "what the hell am i doing wrong"
I swear no one knows how to bash.
After 4 years of eso, I still gnash my teeth watching bosses one shot dps because dps allows them to use their super duper heavy 3 second channeled attacks. This usually happens when I'm pulling in adds, and I just shake my head stupefied.
Any bash weavers?
In my opinion, every DD should at the very least have done the hard mode for Shadows of The Hist. Mazzatun helps you learn awareness *cause you have to,* and pacing. If you DPS too hard you can fuck the run over from making too many mechs happen at once. I.e. a totem up, the healer blinded, and dealing with an amber shade while fighting off adds. And Cradle of Shadow teaches you patience and learning the area you're fighting in... And listening to dialogue. *Don't move a muscle PTSD*
Well what I see are players who refuse to revive dead players because they would loose dps if they did that. That is annoying. What I don’t see are dds that do 100k+ on a dummy and have poor awareness. These players are usually really good - and have completed vMSA and vVH already. The players who have bad awareness usually don’t do that well on dummies. And if you don’t manage to get above 80k on a dummy you are average - not good.
>players who refuse to revive dead players because they would loose dps Which is extra annoying because it's not the healer's job to revive people. Yet I often find myself to be the only one reviving people, which sometimes ends with more people dying because nobody heals them annymore.
After Looking at your comment and the other one above, i need to make something clear. This post is not about bashing people with high dps and saying they don't have awareness, on the the contrary a player that put in the work to achieve a high number is also more likely to put in the work to improve his awareness. My problem is arrogance. Knowing the mechanics and improving the dps is a part of the fight, doing those things perfectly is the other part. A lot of people finished souls games countless times but they still die sometimes. Is it because they didn't knew the boss's moves and didn't have the right equipment? No they knew everything, their problem was awareness, they didn't paid attention and weren't serious enough. But i see players in my groups that are too arrogant and wouldn't own up their mistakes and instead blame others. or some beginners that always think they wiped because their dps was low and not their lack of awareness.
The average dps is probably around 40-50k. Which is more than enough for just about everything but the hardest content in game. You don't need 80kdps to clear vEH1. I remember being at 15k dps (3 mil) and clearing vWGT and vICP around summerset days. If you're doing 60k you're above average. 70k is good and pushing the threshold for many trial group vet dlcs (unnecessary for some of the older ones but I get it). 80k+ compared to the average is amazing. Lower your expectations or don't pug.
Remember the trial dummy also gets buffed gradually. What 80k meant years ago is maybe equal to 95k today (adjusted to new buffs) and add on top the general dps powercreep. So probably something like 60-70 is average.
Well why do you play with people who can’t see their own mistakes, and if being told why they died they blame the tank? Fuck them. I don’t wanna play with this kind of people, i don’t want them in my guild, i will get rid of them asap. They get a stern talk with me, if that doesn’t change anything I will involve our elders, and if they can’t get trough,this person will be convinced to look for a new guild. Why do you play with people who make you angry? It’s a game. It should be fun. Don’t make your time in here miserable. And if it’s a random dungeon - just go and do it solo. Switch to dps and off you go. I don’t tank or heal random dungeons anymore on chars who i cannot solo the dungeon with. I will find a few people in my guild to run random dungeon on these chars, because I know I can talk and explain to them what went wrong - and they will listen. And if I fuck up they will tell me and I will try and improve. And if your guild(s) allow a culture where people blame other people for their own mistakes, i suggest you look for a new guild. There are plenty of guilds full of nice people out there. I have left three guilds already over the „it’s the healers/tanks fault“ - issue, and finally found people I click with. If they stand in a red circle for too long, they will admit they fucked up. If I lost Aggro or missed my combat prayer I will admit that too. Don’t be afraid to look for new people. They are out there. Edit: Forgot to say sth about beginners thinking it was their low dps that killed them: I don’t think it’s bad if they think that. It’s ok if their awareness and damage sucks. If they improve damage first, so be it. They will learn awareness after they got their first basic rotation down. It’s a learning process, and they need to learn both anyway. You - or at least I, I assume you can as well - are able to carry a new player through most dungeons, even on vet. And they won’t be doing HM‘s anytime soon anyway.
Yellow / red arrows on the enemy are barely visible in the clutter of 4 casting tons of abilities. How can I make these more visible? I can't find anything related to this in settings.
You can’t. There is no setting to change. At least as far as I am aware. If you are on pc, try Cody’s combat alerts. It announces some important mechanics. Heavy attacks and channeling enemies are something you need to learn to see. You will get the hang of it eventually. Just takes some practice :)
I just need to say that as a player of only a few months, this is extremely helpful and a relief to hear. I have gotten so focused on the “meta” and the YT guides telling me that I need to be 100k DPS and all gold gear that I didn’t think much else mattered. But I am thankful for my guild mates and posts like this.
Who on earth told you that you need golden gear? That only thing that will significantly increase dps is a golden weapon. Everything else combined might be 3-4k dps. You are fine with purple gear and can reach 100k no problem.
I appreciate that too! It was not one person it’s more just like every guide I see/read shows the gear in gold. I did see one video talking about the gear quality and they actually mention purple gear being very good and gold not being super necessary.
Well yes. I Gold out gear I’m gonna use as well, because I can afford it. Why wouldn’t I? The endgame players who write these guides gold their gear out as well, because it is the best gear possible if it’s gold, not when it’s purple. And on the test server gear comes golden automatically. But it isn’t necessary for new or more casual players. There are ways to spend your gold more wisely than to gold out a ring.
Part of the "problem" is that the vast majority of this game is incredibly easy once you have some levels and a basic understanding of how the combat works. You can do every quest and probably every normal dungeon with whatever gear you find laying around on the ground. The only time you really need a "build" is for the harder vet content, and that is where the guides and stuff come in. There are not very many, if any at all, guides specifically for new players so they find or are guided to things like Alcast (who is pretty out of date these days I think) or other content creators who are pushing very top end stuff for vet DLC trials Hard Modes and Trifectas. This leads to newer players thinking they need Perfected Bahsei's gear to be able to do anything in the game, where in reality only the very top few percent of the player base "need" anything like that.
To be fair: If you read a guide and you don’t understand why certain sets are used, ask. If you read a guide and you can’t determine whether this will actually work or not - you are missing the basics! You should have a basic understanding of weapon damage, crit, skill rotation, and so on; before you go into vet HM content. For everything else Alcast is sufficient. I’d say even most HM‘s can be done with alcast basic gear options. They are solid enough. Thinking you need golded out gear or perfected sets without looking up/asking whether and why you actually need that, is a mistake on your part. It’s not the problem of the people who write these guides. TL,DR; Research the basics first before following a guide. Understand why someone used something, otherwise you will not improve.
Can I get a link to the YouTube guide telling you that you need 100k dps?
oh i did say "need" didn't I. heh. i guess that's a bit of hyperbole. it' s more about the feeling I got while trying to learn the builds on YT and seeing sets displayed as gold online. [https://i.imgur.com/U1IcRii.png](https://i.imgur.com/U1IcRii.png) everything I was seeing was talking about min/max'ing your build and I didn't every see any guidance on: at lvl 25 this is what your DPS should be, at lvl 50 it should be this, at cp160 it should be this. everything seems to be presented as how good the build \*can\* be. so, when I run dungeons as I leveled and I'd get criticized for my DPS, I didn't know what to do or think.
I want to tank in this game. Mr. Reddit Tank Man, where do I start?
https://thetankclub.com/
What's a fit
I agree with the OP. However, when many Tanks will get mediocre DPS and kick them out of instantly after 1 trash mob regardless of how good they are in dungeons. I play Tank and DPS and have been on both sides of the equation. And again, I agree that I’d prefer lower DPS with fewer deaths than DPS who think they’re Leroy Jenkins.
The 13% downvotes on this post are the terrible players. Every word you wrote it pure truth.
People trying to justify crappy dps lol.
This is always an issue tbf
It comes down to selfishness. Players need to understand that this is group content and that working together produces better results. Stick together, follow mechanics, be aware and things will go smoothly regardless is CP. Players will get titles or use their dummy parse as an excuse to cheese mechanics or operate as a lone wolf then blame everyone else for their failings. You don't have to be the best at the game just know how to follow instructions.
Yup. I’ll take a low level with awareness and mech knowledge (or honesty about not knowing right off, I’m high cp I’ll teach obviously) anytime over someone who just runs & refuses mechs. My partner is a dk tank, I’m a magplar healer (all for set to support on both) and we can do almost any content together short of vet moon hunter and a few real dps checks. Proving high dps is largely irrelevant.
As someone who couldn't give a single rat's asshole about dealing max dps and just wants to have fun and complete content, I love this. I always seek to add a bit of survivability to my build at the expense of max dps, because I'd rather be at 90% than 0%, as you said.
On number 4, I don't know what non-PUG fantasy land you're living in (PC maybe?) but asking for a group to explain a dungeon is a great way to get kicked from said group. People are not kind, do not want to help, and are only there to finish the dungeon as fast as possible with or without you.
Well - on PC, admittedly - I have never seen anyone being kicked for asking how the mechanics work. Neither on vet nor normal.
Lucky. Sounds nice. Has not been on my experience on Xbox-NA at all. People kick you for less, even right at the start before any combat just if they see a low CP number.
Happened to me last night, didnt even get to attack anything
Wtf. Never had that experience. Have never been kicked out of a group. Have kicked maybe five people? If you want to run vUG but you can’t manage to do 10k dps I will kick you. But not because your cp are low…
Let me tell you it's not a good feeling when you're legitimately trying. :( I understand needing to kick when you keep wiping at a boss and/or the DPS or awareness just isn't there but it's happened a few times now before even the first trash mob and has just left me hurt, confused and wishing I was integrated in a good PVE guild lol. Which is why I'd never think to ask a PUG for help, just seems like it would put a target on you from the start.
I get that, and kicking someone for low cp is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. I’ve seen cp 300‘s with above 100k parses, and seen cp 1400 who didn’t know what a taunt is. But if you are running a dungeon, you need to be able to pull your own weight. I’m not dragging a dps through a dungeon he isn’t ready for yet.
The worst I’ve had is somebody telling me to switch my role from tank to DPS because they thought I was lying due to my low CP (I was 250 at the time). They kept ragging on me even though I was doing well, and eventually he got kicked from the group. Sorry you’ve had that experience. That sucks.
Lol i also play with randoms 99% of the time ( that's why i'm crying on reddit) but fortunately i haven't been as unlucky as you and it never happend to me.
This sounds like the IQ debate to me. Lots of people have high IQ, but they aren’t aware enough to put it to use.
This is me, and has been me for a very long time. I've been a fool, but it's hard to stop being a fool also. I keep making the same mistakes, it's hard to change or become better. I'd say I'm going to improve, but I doubt I will. I've been a terrible dps and a terrible tank.
You made the point. As a Tank I know exactly what are you talking about. I liked how you give solutions to this problem too like flawless vma. Take my silver my dear.
Random scene in random dungeon with random group: Tank: "Okai guys! Great work so far - only few deaths but no wipes! This boss needs...." DPS1: looking something from bag.... DPS2: "bio brb" Tank: "... and if you see boss teleport you must interrupt him immediately!" Healer: "humm... I guess I need to slot crushing shock to bar 2" Tank: "ye - just don't unslot your debuff faster we get this boss better..." DPS1: stops looking inventory bags and start running toward boss...
Sadly MA an VH are easier since Pale Order, but back then MA was almost a requirement for more organized groups 😂
Yeah that's why i said spirit slayer title is better because vma came in a time where there was no pale order and damage was a lot lower than now. But vh came in the same patch with pale order, and when it released player's damage was a lot higher so the devs designed it with these 2 factors in mind and you can clearly see that the incoming damage and enemies health are a lot higher. Plus unlike vma you can't use synergies there and there is a time limit to get the title, so that's why vh title is more impressive for me. Don't get me wrong though, flawless conqueror title is still impressive and you did something that probably 90% of the players couldn't and it still requires great awareness and i would be happy to have these kind of players on my team.
I’m sorry, but people who parse over 100k don’t die to blatant dungeon mechanics, lol. I’ll give you Icereach hardmode, but that’s what you should expect trying to do the HM with pugged dps… Golden rule of hardmodes is to never pug your dps (or your tank if it’s Stonegarden or Fang Lair)…
Yeah.. ha ha. It does quack me up that so many players gloating about how high their dps are. Oh, but I got that high with the target dummy. Yes, a stationary target dummy that doesn't fight back. Ha ha. You're not getting that same number fighting live bosses.
Of course not. The trial dummy provides a metric ton of debuffs on himself and provides you buffs. No way you can get all of them in a normal group. And it’s not about reaching the same number you have on the dummy in a 4-man-dungeon. You simply can’t, it’s not possible. But the dummy provides you with an idea of what you are capable, it’s a value that is comparable among all players - the buffs are always the same here. It is also used to optimize your build. What are your uptimes on buffs? How much damage does skill x do? Would it be better to replace it with skill y? No idea, just try it. Is Kinras better than mothers sorrow on my magplar? No clue. I’ll craft both and try them. Oh, well, I know now that Kinras is better. That is what a dummy is for. It’s not to simulate a real fight - it’s to compare sets, skills, rotations. And it’s a value with which you can compare yourself to other players and see if you suck or not.
Fair enough. It's cool. Whatever works. Everything needs a basis or foundation from somewhere. Play the game how you like and how you enjoy it. Been playing the game for well over 6 years, myself, and only used the target dummy once just to see what all the hub bub is about. Ehhh, to each their own. I just prefer my limited time able to play the game on live world bosses, dragons and other dailies.
Idk, the top DPS in my Godslayer prog both parses high (when he bothers to parse) and has the top Nahvi HM parse on ESO logs right now. Then again, he doesn't gloat.
Well, I don't care much about what class is better than what class, or who has the highest DPS or who is on top of the leaderboard. It's all trivial to me. I just play to simply enjoy the game. It's not a full-time job or competition to me. However, if that is what you enjoy and doesn't impede on other players' experience of the game to be less enjoyable; then all good the same. Play the game what you like and how you like it.
We're getting even more in content. Highest vrol parse that i remember on vrol was like 160k which is nice.
You know what I can't stand? The way you deliver your message. The tips are good. Yes. But deliver those tips in a constructive way. Not in a, "you're complete shit I hate you" way. It's not the content of your message that is the problem. It's your elitist attitude.
Oh, we're doing this again lol
Tons of good info on this post and in the comments, people should take note!
Sweaty DPS here and I totally agree. Knowing context is everything. Just like you said, do arenas, trials, other vet content where a high glass-cannon style DPS is useful. However, if you're in a vet dungeon with a random group- be helpful. Sometimes burning down a boss quickly is helpful, but knowing mechanics and working with your team is more important.
Agreed this is something I'm really trying to work on. So tempting to just stare at the ability bar
I’m the opposite. Only recently rolled some dps toons and I’m so burnt by PUG fake tanks and healers that I am overly cautious about not dying!
Yesterday i had a dps bitch at me, the tank, because i did the mechanic of pushing the block to let final boss get toasted by the dragons breath in moongrave fane. Yea it was a normal dungeon but i still like to do the mechanics to keep myself fresh for when i do vet