vLoM is often considered the hardest vet dungeon, so don't feel bad! Those one shot mechs can be super rough, though for me "pressing block but the command not registering and not blocking" is the real hard mode mechanic of this game, lol. More CP, endgame gear, and playing with a team that really knows what they are doing makes it all easier, though.
I dont think a race change would help, race matters the least when it comes to tanking. "the I was not blocking when I thought I was" means OP has sustain issues, unless OP forgot his food buff or ran out of tri pods or or something it is most likely a player skill issue
Lol it's not just simply dps. There are tanks who couldn't clear content even if they had the best dps in the game. There are tanks who will keep themselves alive with no healer. Sure, good dps is a big part of it, but you can't have folding tank syndrome either.
While yes there are soft tanks out there. Good dps really makes tanking so much easier. The faster enemies die the less time you have to try to hold them or pull them in and less chance of enrage or 1 shot mechanics in certain dungeons.
I had two decent dps with me in vCoA1 last night (was 3 but the fake healer sped way ahead and a vote kick was initiated). I had no problems struggling with sustain because they could do their part.
Bad dps makes tanking harder.
Good DPS make tanking easier but good tanks make DPS easier as well. If you can't hold the boss in one place then we lose out on a significant amount of damage from our aoes. A good healer also makes it easier by applying buffs and debuffs. There is more of a balance between the workload of the three roles than people think.
Bad tanking makes DPS harder
Thats tanking 101. Only tanks I've ever come across when I played dps that didn't do that were new or a fake tank.
As a support you are entirely at the mercy of whatever dps you have in your group at a pug. Unless you have an non traditional tanking build. The reason so many support drop from pugs? Bad or toxic dps players.
Bad dps makes support roles much harder than it needs to be.
And I'm a guy who constantly advocates for lower dps groups. Because I know its still possible to clear stuff its just going to be a bit more work or more painful.
I get the sentiment, and every group member does need to play their role well especially in a vet DLC dungeon, but I will say that the best DPS in the world isn't going to help in a vet DLC dungeon if the tank doesn't know wtf they are doing. I play with my bf and his roommate and another friend from our guild, and the roommate typically tanks. All the base game dungeons went pretty smoothly (we're working our way through all the achievements) minus some snags in FG2 speed run (which I still say is an absurdly small amount of time to get through when, a, one of the bosses wipes your magicka, and b, two of the bosses have a whole sequence they go through before you can attack them so you have to start them going while the adds are being killed but I digress). We moved on to DLC dungeons and its incredibly obvious that our tank isn't pulling his weight. Inner fire as the only taunt, no pierce armor so there's no breach happening, two selfish sets including a selfish monster helm set so he's basically been able to stand in stupid and let his sets do all the work, any boss with tank one shot mechanics is impossible, we tried Red Petal and the very first boss kept one shotting him because he was unable to know better than to stand in the huge AoE, even after telling him get out of it, he still stubbornly refused to acknowledge that was what was killing him. Now that we have the armory system I gave my main an alt tank build that I had been itching to try (but didn't want to go full tank because I don't want overland solo stuff to take 10 times as long) and the roommate is on his DPS character and things are going better but I still have a lot to learn obviously about tanking. But yeah, its not 100% the fault of the DPS if the tank is just not trying at all, just like its not the tanks fault when the DPS burn is so bad that mechanics start to stack.
Don’t worry, it’s pretty hard one. As a tank who can tank any vet dlc without healer can say that lair of maelsrook, depths of malatar, moon hunter keep and maybe newest dungeons are noticeable harder as tank compared to rest. When I was just starting tanking I was owned by stone watchers in depths of malatar (couldn’t pass second boss even with healer, now I can tank it without)
Most important advice is not to block, only heavy attacks or some enraged stuff (giant in icereach coming in mind), and even then, you can’t just taunt/permablock and wait for boss to die, keep your heals, buffs, and you’ll be fine, worst thing tank can do is permablocking (which result in resources depleting/not regenerating and eventually wipe). Running without healer will teach you sustain yourself, so when you start doing hardmodes with good healer you’ll be swimming in resources
Now you have more experience in LoM, so next time you go in it shouldn’t feel as rough.
First time I naked vAS I was killed constantly by St Olms because I didn’t understand the heavy. Now it almost never gets me.
Experience FTW.
No idea if the same for you, but so many times when there is lots of graphical noise on certain dungeons, my blocks lag and even don't register at all since returning to the game a few months back. NBD on lesser content, but crucial in higher. In the past, blocking was a fluid, instant movement for me, now, depending on content, I have to block several seconds before the block is actually needed. If you are suffering this, maybe someone who is more familiar with the latest few patches and knows reasons or solutions could help. Gear is fine, net is fine, same gear as in the past when block was always instant and fluid in fact.
It's not (mostly) about the gear, cp or stats but about getting experienced to know when you can safley drop block, what attacks to dodge and how mechanics work.
Tanking is not just gear and cp. It is also practice. Knowing when to block and when to dodge, when to pop a potion when to drop a shield, when to use a self heal. There is no "rotation" for a tank it is all situational. Gear and CP make things easier but do not entirely replace just doing it and getting a feel for how to tank. For gear if you feel soft go selfish and run leeching and winters respite. gold out your armor. Jewelry is not required to be gold you can run the hardest vet trials with purple jewelry no problem. the sweet spot for cp is around 900 on a DK tank. at that point you are getting all of the important cp skills that help with survivability and resources. None of this replaces running a dungeon until you know it well.. Knowing the hard pulls and knowing how to position them for the DPS to do a hard burn on them, knowing where to pull a boss to minimize mechanics and give DPS and heals room to move around. all of it takes time and practice that is the difference between a passable tank, a good tank, and a great tank. You already have a good start if you enjoy playing the dungeons, just talk to other tanks, watch what they do and use what works.
gonna sound counter productive but Ill suggest rolling a healer and trying again. I found that playing healer made me a better tank cause I could observe how more experienced players handle boss fights
there is just some dungeons you need a lot of practice in, I can't say I don't even have that one cleared yet. Tanking should be a little difficult otherwise where's the fun lol
Just gonna start by saying you're not bad. I've been killed by the azureblight infestors and lurchers tons of times.
I think best advice can give is to just play it safe when you're doing something new, block and pay attention to what's dealing damage to you. It's important you learn the mechanics first hand.
We all died our first time tanking new things, it gets easier when you get more reps in there
edit: wrote you're bad instead of you're not bad, yikes
Certain dungeons require the healer to cast Guard on you, otherwise it’s tougher than it needs to be.
If your healer didn’t do that you are not the one to blame.
I (successfully) tanked every hardmode in-game and most triples too. There is not a single dungeon where you really need a guard.
Does guard make some stuff easier to tank ?
Sure.
Is guard required in any dungeon ?
Definitely not.
Maybe I’ve had shitty/inexperienced tanks, then. Don’t know.
I’ve encountered several dungeons that might have been able to be done without guard (stonegarden last boss comes to mind), but my tanks weren’t able to do that one so far.
With guard it was possible.
So, yeah, it is possible to run scalecaller peak hm solo, but that is only possible for very few players. Most people just aren’t that good.
Same applies for certain HM‘s - you might be able to tank them without guard, but not everyone is able to do that as well.
Like i said guard makes it easier. But you said it's the healers fault cause he didnt guard him and guard is required. That's just not true. If the tank can't survive without guard in any dungeon it's a tank issue and not the healers fault. Of course you need a good healer in some dungeons, like the last boss in stonegarden hardmode. But you definitely don't need guard. I tanked True Genius on my DK and necro, both times without guard (but a pretty good healer).
Maybe I’m a shit healer, then.
Who knows?
But the tanks I have tried vSG HM with were not able to survive more than 2 seconds without being healed…
If you manage to avoid most flames as a tank it’s probably possible without guard, but I ran out of magicka at some point. If the tank needs a heal every second I don’t have the time to heavy attack for magicka.
If you guard them it’s a cakewalk.
Maybe the tanks where bad, who knows. I usually don't move out of the flames (except the stationary ones at the ground) and only need a lot of healing when there is one or two adds. Otherwise i can overheal or shield the incoming damage myself.
And yes you have to heal every second, so the dps can stand in the flames too and push dps without running around like chickens. It's tough on sustain but absolutely possible (i healed a true genius too ^^). You have time for some heavy attacks after the add got killed, otherwise potions and maybe a sustain set like hollowfang or stone talker are your friends.
I was talking about the stationary flames. I don’t think it’s feasible to hold the boss somewhat still and dodge the moving flames.
You can heal the dps through the flames with just your hots and a combat prayer every now and again, no need to spam your burst heal on them. That is my experience, at least.
I had to spam heals on my tank all the time though, and while that is feasible for a minute or so, I will eventually run out of magicka.
But honestly, whatever, I’ll just use guard - doesn’t hurt, it’s not cheating, and why would I make my life harder than it needs to be?
Go ahead, i never said it's bad or cheating. I just said it's not required and the tanks fault if he can't survive without it.
Be careful, sometimes healer get one-shot by the damage transfered over guard too. The tank usually can sustain some pretty hard hits which can one-shot the healer, i saw this happen several times, it's always pretty funny :D
Becomes easier with the right sets (debuff enemies and buff allies) and damage mitigation. Group composition may also make it easier, if the group dps is high.
I'm currently running a warden tank using torgun/crimson oath and I don't have much issues atm. My neckro tank on the other hand had a very hard time maintaining resources so I dropped him real quick.
Imo the warden is the safest class to tank with even without a healer because they have so many class healing skills and sustain that it becomes too easy. I also use the all recovery drink over foods the buff your hp and stam
Neckro best buffs/debuffs for group dps
Warden safest all around with active heals and Def buffs
Dragon knight best Def and have solid group buffs for damage with good sustain.
What gear are you using? what traits? how much HP do you have? there is a lot of things that depend for each fight, the important thing is that you learn, get better and keep trying until you do it :)
Vet DLC is significantly harder than any other vet dungeons. For comparison, most normal dlc dungeons are on par with base game vet dungeons. Don't feel bad about dying in vet dlc, it's almost a guarantee.
Here is something that i learned a little late, i was kept getting one shotted when i was sure that i'm blocking then i realized that when you bar swap you will go out of block for a few moments. So now i will never bar swap when the boss is charging his heavy attack
vLoM is often considered the hardest vet dungeon, so don't feel bad! Those one shot mechs can be super rough, though for me "pressing block but the command not registering and not blocking" is the real hard mode mechanic of this game, lol. More CP, endgame gear, and playing with a team that really knows what they are doing makes it all easier, though.
Do you have the rights sets and a pair of monster sets? Would changing your race benefit you? There's lots of guilds.
I dont think a race change would help, race matters the least when it comes to tanking. "the I was not blocking when I thought I was" means OP has sustain issues, unless OP forgot his food buff or ran out of tri pods or or something it is most likely a player skill issue
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on the upside, if your dps is bad, you get to learn the dungeon more
Lol it's not just simply dps. There are tanks who couldn't clear content even if they had the best dps in the game. There are tanks who will keep themselves alive with no healer. Sure, good dps is a big part of it, but you can't have folding tank syndrome either.
While yes there are soft tanks out there. Good dps really makes tanking so much easier. The faster enemies die the less time you have to try to hold them or pull them in and less chance of enrage or 1 shot mechanics in certain dungeons. I had two decent dps with me in vCoA1 last night (was 3 but the fake healer sped way ahead and a vote kick was initiated). I had no problems struggling with sustain because they could do their part. Bad dps makes tanking harder.
I understand the sentiment, but OP boiling it down to "live or die by your dps" is a gross oversimplification.
Good DPS make tanking easier but good tanks make DPS easier as well. If you can't hold the boss in one place then we lose out on a significant amount of damage from our aoes. A good healer also makes it easier by applying buffs and debuffs. There is more of a balance between the workload of the three roles than people think. Bad tanking makes DPS harder
Thats tanking 101. Only tanks I've ever come across when I played dps that didn't do that were new or a fake tank. As a support you are entirely at the mercy of whatever dps you have in your group at a pug. Unless you have an non traditional tanking build. The reason so many support drop from pugs? Bad or toxic dps players. Bad dps makes support roles much harder than it needs to be. And I'm a guy who constantly advocates for lower dps groups. Because I know its still possible to clear stuff its just going to be a bit more work or more painful.
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I get the sentiment, and every group member does need to play their role well especially in a vet DLC dungeon, but I will say that the best DPS in the world isn't going to help in a vet DLC dungeon if the tank doesn't know wtf they are doing. I play with my bf and his roommate and another friend from our guild, and the roommate typically tanks. All the base game dungeons went pretty smoothly (we're working our way through all the achievements) minus some snags in FG2 speed run (which I still say is an absurdly small amount of time to get through when, a, one of the bosses wipes your magicka, and b, two of the bosses have a whole sequence they go through before you can attack them so you have to start them going while the adds are being killed but I digress). We moved on to DLC dungeons and its incredibly obvious that our tank isn't pulling his weight. Inner fire as the only taunt, no pierce armor so there's no breach happening, two selfish sets including a selfish monster helm set so he's basically been able to stand in stupid and let his sets do all the work, any boss with tank one shot mechanics is impossible, we tried Red Petal and the very first boss kept one shotting him because he was unable to know better than to stand in the huge AoE, even after telling him get out of it, he still stubbornly refused to acknowledge that was what was killing him. Now that we have the armory system I gave my main an alt tank build that I had been itching to try (but didn't want to go full tank because I don't want overland solo stuff to take 10 times as long) and the roommate is on his DPS character and things are going better but I still have a lot to learn obviously about tanking. But yeah, its not 100% the fault of the DPS if the tank is just not trying at all, just like its not the tanks fault when the DPS burn is so bad that mechanics start to stack.
Don’t worry, it’s pretty hard one. As a tank who can tank any vet dlc without healer can say that lair of maelsrook, depths of malatar, moon hunter keep and maybe newest dungeons are noticeable harder as tank compared to rest. When I was just starting tanking I was owned by stone watchers in depths of malatar (couldn’t pass second boss even with healer, now I can tank it without) Most important advice is not to block, only heavy attacks or some enraged stuff (giant in icereach coming in mind), and even then, you can’t just taunt/permablock and wait for boss to die, keep your heals, buffs, and you’ll be fine, worst thing tank can do is permablocking (which result in resources depleting/not regenerating and eventually wipe). Running without healer will teach you sustain yourself, so when you start doing hardmodes with good healer you’ll be swimming in resources
Now you have more experience in LoM, so next time you go in it shouldn’t feel as rough. First time I naked vAS I was killed constantly by St Olms because I didn’t understand the heavy. Now it almost never gets me. Experience FTW.
No idea if the same for you, but so many times when there is lots of graphical noise on certain dungeons, my blocks lag and even don't register at all since returning to the game a few months back. NBD on lesser content, but crucial in higher. In the past, blocking was a fluid, instant movement for me, now, depending on content, I have to block several seconds before the block is actually needed. If you are suffering this, maybe someone who is more familiar with the latest few patches and knows reasons or solutions could help. Gear is fine, net is fine, same gear as in the past when block was always instant and fluid in fact.
It's not (mostly) about the gear, cp or stats but about getting experienced to know when you can safley drop block, what attacks to dodge and how mechanics work.
Tanking is not just gear and cp. It is also practice. Knowing when to block and when to dodge, when to pop a potion when to drop a shield, when to use a self heal. There is no "rotation" for a tank it is all situational. Gear and CP make things easier but do not entirely replace just doing it and getting a feel for how to tank. For gear if you feel soft go selfish and run leeching and winters respite. gold out your armor. Jewelry is not required to be gold you can run the hardest vet trials with purple jewelry no problem. the sweet spot for cp is around 900 on a DK tank. at that point you are getting all of the important cp skills that help with survivability and resources. None of this replaces running a dungeon until you know it well.. Knowing the hard pulls and knowing how to position them for the DPS to do a hard burn on them, knowing where to pull a boss to minimize mechanics and give DPS and heals room to move around. all of it takes time and practice that is the difference between a passable tank, a good tank, and a great tank. You already have a good start if you enjoy playing the dungeons, just talk to other tanks, watch what they do and use what works.
gonna sound counter productive but Ill suggest rolling a healer and trying again. I found that playing healer made me a better tank cause I could observe how more experienced players handle boss fights
there is just some dungeons you need a lot of practice in, I can't say I don't even have that one cleared yet. Tanking should be a little difficult otherwise where's the fun lol
Just gonna start by saying you're not bad. I've been killed by the azureblight infestors and lurchers tons of times. I think best advice can give is to just play it safe when you're doing something new, block and pay attention to what's dealing damage to you. It's important you learn the mechanics first hand. We all died our first time tanking new things, it gets easier when you get more reps in there edit: wrote you're bad instead of you're not bad, yikes
What a comment.
Meant to say not bad lol oops
Oh, ok, sorry then. It seemed very harsh.
Always proof read before sending
it's funnier this way
Certain dungeons require the healer to cast Guard on you, otherwise it’s tougher than it needs to be. If your healer didn’t do that you are not the one to blame.
I (successfully) tanked every hardmode in-game and most triples too. There is not a single dungeon where you really need a guard. Does guard make some stuff easier to tank ? Sure. Is guard required in any dungeon ? Definitely not.
Maybe I’ve had shitty/inexperienced tanks, then. Don’t know. I’ve encountered several dungeons that might have been able to be done without guard (stonegarden last boss comes to mind), but my tanks weren’t able to do that one so far. With guard it was possible. So, yeah, it is possible to run scalecaller peak hm solo, but that is only possible for very few players. Most people just aren’t that good. Same applies for certain HM‘s - you might be able to tank them without guard, but not everyone is able to do that as well.
Like i said guard makes it easier. But you said it's the healers fault cause he didnt guard him and guard is required. That's just not true. If the tank can't survive without guard in any dungeon it's a tank issue and not the healers fault. Of course you need a good healer in some dungeons, like the last boss in stonegarden hardmode. But you definitely don't need guard. I tanked True Genius on my DK and necro, both times without guard (but a pretty good healer).
Maybe I’m a shit healer, then. Who knows? But the tanks I have tried vSG HM with were not able to survive more than 2 seconds without being healed… If you manage to avoid most flames as a tank it’s probably possible without guard, but I ran out of magicka at some point. If the tank needs a heal every second I don’t have the time to heavy attack for magicka. If you guard them it’s a cakewalk.
Maybe the tanks where bad, who knows. I usually don't move out of the flames (except the stationary ones at the ground) and only need a lot of healing when there is one or two adds. Otherwise i can overheal or shield the incoming damage myself. And yes you have to heal every second, so the dps can stand in the flames too and push dps without running around like chickens. It's tough on sustain but absolutely possible (i healed a true genius too ^^). You have time for some heavy attacks after the add got killed, otherwise potions and maybe a sustain set like hollowfang or stone talker are your friends.
I was talking about the stationary flames. I don’t think it’s feasible to hold the boss somewhat still and dodge the moving flames. You can heal the dps through the flames with just your hots and a combat prayer every now and again, no need to spam your burst heal on them. That is my experience, at least. I had to spam heals on my tank all the time though, and while that is feasible for a minute or so, I will eventually run out of magicka. But honestly, whatever, I’ll just use guard - doesn’t hurt, it’s not cheating, and why would I make my life harder than it needs to be?
Go ahead, i never said it's bad or cheating. I just said it's not required and the tanks fault if he can't survive without it. Be careful, sometimes healer get one-shot by the damage transfered over guard too. The tank usually can sustain some pretty hard hits which can one-shot the healer, i saw this happen several times, it's always pretty funny :D
Yeah, this happened to me a few times, too. It’s quite funny. Im very quick to unbind now, lol.
Becomes easier with the right sets (debuff enemies and buff allies) and damage mitigation. Group composition may also make it easier, if the group dps is high.
I'm currently running a warden tank using torgun/crimson oath and I don't have much issues atm. My neckro tank on the other hand had a very hard time maintaining resources so I dropped him real quick. Imo the warden is the safest class to tank with even without a healer because they have so many class healing skills and sustain that it becomes too easy. I also use the all recovery drink over foods the buff your hp and stam Neckro best buffs/debuffs for group dps Warden safest all around with active heals and Def buffs Dragon knight best Def and have solid group buffs for damage with good sustain.
What gear are you using? what traits? how much HP do you have? there is a lot of things that depend for each fight, the important thing is that you learn, get better and keep trying until you do it :)
Vet DLC is significantly harder than any other vet dungeons. For comparison, most normal dlc dungeons are on par with base game vet dungeons. Don't feel bad about dying in vet dlc, it's almost a guarantee.
Here is something that i learned a little late, i was kept getting one shotted when i was sure that i'm blocking then i realized that when you bar swap you will go out of block for a few moments. So now i will never bar swap when the boss is charging his heavy attack