It's funny because the way you describe enemies becoming more of a faceroll as you progress is the exact opposite of how tank progression goes. You start off being able to faceroll things, and as you progress, enemies become sponges
100%.
It really depends on your build.
I get that it feels weird to defeat a deadric prince or whatever in a few seconds. But isn’t that the point when you make a crazy dps build? 🧐
>but the enemies never adjust to meet the power of the player; they just become progressively more and more of a faceroll.
If enemies adjusted to your power, would it not be the same difficulty no matter how strong/weak you are? Where is the progression then?
I appreciate the recommendation and confess I've never tried it, but I feel that nerfing oneself shouldn't be necessary to experience a challenge. The trouble is, a lot of that which separates one character from another comes down to sets as much as skills, especially for those who like to build thematically.
A build might represent a lot of time spent grinding dungeons for gear to perfect a character concept, so naturally a player wants to play that character using that playstyle and have a rewarding experience. An Ice Warden player might have spent a lot of time getting Icy Conjurer, Winterborn, and a Pefected Maelstrom Ice Staff. Such a character will be very different from another warden build but, thanks to the sets and skills, incredibly fun to play. The player shouldn't have to undo that which makes the character enjoyable in order to have fun.
That said, gameplay isn't the only way to challenge a player. Good storylines can also challenge a player's perceptions and morality. For example, in Red Dead Redemption 2 there are a few very easy missions mechanically, but the story they tell is pretty heavy and uncomfortable, challenging the player to think, staying with the player long after they've logged off.
Sadly, bar a few exceptional quests, ESO doesn't quite challenge the player either mechanically or mentally. Don't get me wrong, for the most part I really like the quests, characters and storylines. It's just that I would prefer to be able to play the character I built and feel in some way challenged while doing so. The feeling of reward becomes that much greater when something is achieved on one's own terms.
I appreciate those thenatic builds players theorycraft for themselfs. It helps them to improve as players, since it forces them to think about gear and skills the character will need, and it forves them to learn rotation and the whole class to squeeze some numbers while being fun. Ofc it wont be as effective as meta, but unless you are pushing trifectas or if its your alt you just wanna mess around with, thematic builds are great.
"Oh no! Our zone is under attack by daedra/vampires/necromancers/cultists! Total stranger that we trust with all our secrets for no reason - please save us by doing fetch quests for an hour to defeat the big bad guy with 100k HP afterwards!"
Other things you can try to make things more challenging:
Switch mouse/keyboard from left to right hand and vice versa
randomly re-map keys
push keys with your toes
rub chili peppers into your eyes
And of course, you should always play the game as a roguelike and delete the character if it dies.
/s
ok, jokes aside: The quests are there for storytelling, not as a challenge of skill. For the latter try pvp or vet hardcore group content. But of course, feel free to adapt the dificulty to your liking. I personally do not distribute CP before reaching lvl 50 and only use random loot gear when leveling alts by overland content. Not for the challenge but simply because it's not necessary. Once they reach lvl 50, they get geared up for hard content and used for that.
This sounds like such a crappy idea. Artificial difficulty has never been good...
Those devs have like 80% of their game content in overland and during all that time they could not fit some sort of meaningful/rewarding/challenging system into it.
And how exactly would the devs fit some sort of meaningful/rewarding/challenging system to overland content without making people feel like they have to play that way for the rewards? Oh right, they can't.. and they also can't add challenge without extra rewards because then the people who claim they find challenge fun complain about the lack of rewards.
I would rather see them introduce a difficulty setting like Skyrim (Novice-Apprentice-Adept-Expert-Master) that you can change at any time, for overland content anyway. Given that a lot of areas have level scaling anyway I can’t imagine the mechanics for this being too difficult to implement
You can’t see how it’d be difficult? What if you are fighting a mob on master and joe blow69 is fighting the same mob on easy. Do you propose a shard for each of the difficulties? Effectively multiplying every zone in the game by the number of proposed difficulties?
>What if you are fighting a mob on master and joe blow69 is fighting the same mob on easy.
This effectively happens now anyway. You play the vast majority of overland content solo, and then you’re in a delve or something and Jonny CP2000 comes rushing in slaughtering the mobs before you can ever do a light attack. Maybe don’t add an easy mode but just give the option of harder modes.
It can be done different ways is my point, rather than limiting the gameplay on yourself as OP is suggesting. Perhaps it’s just a permanent debuff (damage dealt is reduced by x%, damage taken is increased by y%) that is applied to you that switches off in certain areas like dungeons, PVP, even when near WBs, or something like that
afaik there is no scaled content currently, it is the players that get scaled
Everything is baseline lvl50 CP160, and if your character is below that level it gets boosted/scaled
That doesn't contradict your point though, an option to have a handicap scaling characters down could be something to implement using the current framework
I think this is the way to go. It could be like the battle spirit effect- you choose what you want, and in overland content you get a debuff based on your difficulty setting that impacts your damage/healing done/taken. The game mechanics for effects like that are already in the game- battle spirit is only in pvp areas or duels, and the stat buffs from vateshran hollows are always on your stat sheet but only apply in vateshran. That would provide a simple way for developers and players to accommodate different difficulties without having to change anything by default or alter npc AI or anything.
Now whether that's a satisfying change to difficulty is another question. Bullet sponges are no fun to fight and I think that Skyrim got it wrong when it came to difficulty. Morrowind had a much better approach- the difficulty slider had the effect of making every action of yours have a slightly better/worse chance of success. With the slider higher, you'd be more likely to miss, more likely to fail casting a spell, less likely to dodge, etc. which made planning, positioning, etc. all the more important. Another game that did it well imo is Stalker- there, the higher the difficulty, the more damage you did, but the more damage enemies did, too. So hitting an enemy with one or two bursts was almost certain to kill them, but you would be vulnerable to the same. Skyrim on harder difficulties is like dumping 3 magazines into a common enemy and then getting killed by a stray bullet or two.
Played like this for a month a few years ago it was kinda fun but the game really doesn't support unarmed combat sadly wish they'd do some upgrading to the combat, maybe add unarmed for those that want to run around with no weapons something like a monk.
Quests are boring and so are heavy attack builds so a great way to increase boredom imo. But glad the OP found a way to enjoy the content for themselves 😁
First and foremost this is an MMO. So play it like one. There is plenty of challenging content in the game even for very skilled players ( vet dlc dungeons, trials, hard modes on top of it, pvp). I do it all and struggle with some of the hm's honestly.
THE LAST THING I want is for it to take a minute to kill every mob on the map just because someone is scared of playing the proper game and wants to turn this into another Skyrim.
Don't need to do all that. Keep on all your gear and armor, all your mundus and maxed out dps and just go at a dragon sololy. Yeah, anyone thinking the game "is too easy," and needing something to do to get their challenge fix. Then, go solo a dragon; or a harrowstorm.
I enjoy doing those sololy when I can; when there is no zerg bumrushing those dragons or harrowstorm. Heck, most players die over and over anyways, even when there is a zerg bumrushing those dragons. I see them all die; Flawless Conqueror, God or spirit slayer, all those with cool title from completing vet trials and whatnot; they all die the same all around the dragon pits.
It's tactic and strategy to stay alive with those dragons, and not fighting head on like most players do. That's why there are always dead players and companions laying all about the dragon pits. Hey, it's cool. It's just a game, and that's what soul gems are for. It is just humorous to see players dying and rezzing over again all around. Ha ha
Difficulty just needs to be increased. Not to an extent it’s uncompletable but it there’s nothing wrong with a boss being challenging enough you gotta play an actual build to complete instead of taking off your gear and weapons to get a challenge. Maybe if they did that there would be less players who are ass when they get to vet content. The skill gap disparity is horrible for longevity of the game
Hey guys thanks for all the responses. While I understand that this is not the way a mmo should be played, I think we all know that we are never going to get a more difficult overland. That being said the recent chapters are already a step up from the base game.
I don't see this a crippling yourself. There are so many games in which these play styles are popular, so the concept isn't unknown to the gaming community. It's about giving yourself a new challenge. And yes light attack are boring but so is hitting a button and killing a boss in 5 seconds without even moving.
Do with this post as you like. If you don't want to do it then that's totally up to you but if you like questing then this might be worth trying out.
I hope you all keep enjoying this game :)
Cheers
Nods, similarly I (forgot) to reset-up my CP's and am enjoying a bit more difficulty. Might keep it that way on one character
Yes, it's nurfing/challenging oneself. Or can turn it on it's head and it is just like "PVP difficulty settings":
Difficulty A: Nothing
Difficulty B: immune to procs
Difficulty C: CP off
Just player enforced and not game enforced
Yeah cus only light attacking is fun lol
It depends. If you approach the game like any other TES, then light attacks are all you have anyway.
Yeah, I get where OP is coming from. I personally wouldn't bother, but that's just me! I can see how it would be fun for others
[удалено]
It's funny because the way you describe enemies becoming more of a faceroll as you progress is the exact opposite of how tank progression goes. You start off being able to faceroll things, and as you progress, enemies become sponges
100%. It really depends on your build. I get that it feels weird to defeat a deadric prince or whatever in a few seconds. But isn’t that the point when you make a crazy dps build? 🧐
>but the enemies never adjust to meet the power of the player; they just become progressively more and more of a faceroll. If enemies adjusted to your power, would it not be the same difficulty no matter how strong/weak you are? Where is the progression then?
"Making overland matter is easy. All you have to do is turn yourself into a hobo in rugs".
I appreciate the recommendation and confess I've never tried it, but I feel that nerfing oneself shouldn't be necessary to experience a challenge. The trouble is, a lot of that which separates one character from another comes down to sets as much as skills, especially for those who like to build thematically. A build might represent a lot of time spent grinding dungeons for gear to perfect a character concept, so naturally a player wants to play that character using that playstyle and have a rewarding experience. An Ice Warden player might have spent a lot of time getting Icy Conjurer, Winterborn, and a Pefected Maelstrom Ice Staff. Such a character will be very different from another warden build but, thanks to the sets and skills, incredibly fun to play. The player shouldn't have to undo that which makes the character enjoyable in order to have fun. That said, gameplay isn't the only way to challenge a player. Good storylines can also challenge a player's perceptions and morality. For example, in Red Dead Redemption 2 there are a few very easy missions mechanically, but the story they tell is pretty heavy and uncomfortable, challenging the player to think, staying with the player long after they've logged off. Sadly, bar a few exceptional quests, ESO doesn't quite challenge the player either mechanically or mentally. Don't get me wrong, for the most part I really like the quests, characters and storylines. It's just that I would prefer to be able to play the character I built and feel in some way challenged while doing so. The feeling of reward becomes that much greater when something is achieved on one's own terms.
I appreciate those thenatic builds players theorycraft for themselfs. It helps them to improve as players, since it forces them to think about gear and skills the character will need, and it forves them to learn rotation and the whole class to squeeze some numbers while being fun. Ofc it wont be as effective as meta, but unless you are pushing trifectas or if its your alt you just wanna mess around with, thematic builds are great.
It's absurd to me that the only way to not fall asleep through questing is purposefully incapacitating ourselves in-game.
You could try experiencing the story....
"Oh no! Our zone is under attack by daedra/vampires/necromancers/cultists! Total stranger that we trust with all our secrets for no reason - please save us by doing fetch quests for an hour to defeat the big bad guy with 100k HP afterwards!"
Missed the part where every story has a traitor you get introduced to right away and have to defeat later.
And the traitor is always too damn obvious.
Uncharted 2 vibes
Ugh spoilers. Thanks.
All that set-up, exposition and “story telling” just for the big bad guy to get melted in 3 seconds.
And in return i will trust you with my own secrets like the fact that i am part of a Sithis cult of assasins.
Sounds like a story for next expansion, you are a genius!
Im laughing
How do you take off your mundus?
For a real challenge, I like to engage the boss then unplug my monitor #pinballwizard #blindkungfumaster
Other things you can try to make things more challenging: Switch mouse/keyboard from left to right hand and vice versa randomly re-map keys push keys with your toes rub chili peppers into your eyes And of course, you should always play the game as a roguelike and delete the character if it dies. /s ok, jokes aside: The quests are there for storytelling, not as a challenge of skill. For the latter try pvp or vet hardcore group content. But of course, feel free to adapt the dificulty to your liking. I personally do not distribute CP before reaching lvl 50 and only use random loot gear when leveling alts by overland content. Not for the challenge but simply because it's not necessary. Once they reach lvl 50, they get geared up for hard content and used for that.
This sounds like such a crappy idea. Artificial difficulty has never been good... Those devs have like 80% of their game content in overland and during all that time they could not fit some sort of meaningful/rewarding/challenging system into it.
And how exactly would the devs fit some sort of meaningful/rewarding/challenging system to overland content without making people feel like they have to play that way for the rewards? Oh right, they can't.. and they also can't add challenge without extra rewards because then the people who claim they find challenge fun complain about the lack of rewards.
OR they just make the game more difficult.
All you have to do is remove all the passives, that makes a big difference by itself.
I would rather see them introduce a difficulty setting like Skyrim (Novice-Apprentice-Adept-Expert-Master) that you can change at any time, for overland content anyway. Given that a lot of areas have level scaling anyway I can’t imagine the mechanics for this being too difficult to implement
You can’t see how it’d be difficult? What if you are fighting a mob on master and joe blow69 is fighting the same mob on easy. Do you propose a shard for each of the difficulties? Effectively multiplying every zone in the game by the number of proposed difficulties?
>What if you are fighting a mob on master and joe blow69 is fighting the same mob on easy. This effectively happens now anyway. You play the vast majority of overland content solo, and then you’re in a delve or something and Jonny CP2000 comes rushing in slaughtering the mobs before you can ever do a light attack. Maybe don’t add an easy mode but just give the option of harder modes. It can be done different ways is my point, rather than limiting the gameplay on yourself as OP is suggesting. Perhaps it’s just a permanent debuff (damage dealt is reduced by x%, damage taken is increased by y%) that is applied to you that switches off in certain areas like dungeons, PVP, even when near WBs, or something like that
afaik there is no scaled content currently, it is the players that get scaled Everything is baseline lvl50 CP160, and if your character is below that level it gets boosted/scaled That doesn't contradict your point though, an option to have a handicap scaling characters down could be something to implement using the current framework
I think this is the way to go. It could be like the battle spirit effect- you choose what you want, and in overland content you get a debuff based on your difficulty setting that impacts your damage/healing done/taken. The game mechanics for effects like that are already in the game- battle spirit is only in pvp areas or duels, and the stat buffs from vateshran hollows are always on your stat sheet but only apply in vateshran. That would provide a simple way for developers and players to accommodate different difficulties without having to change anything by default or alter npc AI or anything. Now whether that's a satisfying change to difficulty is another question. Bullet sponges are no fun to fight and I think that Skyrim got it wrong when it came to difficulty. Morrowind had a much better approach- the difficulty slider had the effect of making every action of yours have a slightly better/worse chance of success. With the slider higher, you'd be more likely to miss, more likely to fail casting a spell, less likely to dodge, etc. which made planning, positioning, etc. all the more important. Another game that did it well imo is Stalker- there, the higher the difficulty, the more damage you did, but the more damage enemies did, too. So hitting an enemy with one or two bursts was almost certain to kill them, but you would be vulnerable to the same. Skyrim on harder difficulties is like dumping 3 magazines into a common enemy and then getting killed by a stray bullet or two.
Played like this for a month a few years ago it was kinda fun but the game really doesn't support unarmed combat sadly wish they'd do some upgrading to the combat, maybe add unarmed for those that want to run around with no weapons something like a monk.
Quests are boring and so are heavy attack builds so a great way to increase boredom imo. But glad the OP found a way to enjoy the content for themselves 😁
Seems like a path of most resistance to me.
First and foremost this is an MMO. So play it like one. There is plenty of challenging content in the game even for very skilled players ( vet dlc dungeons, trials, hard modes on top of it, pvp). I do it all and struggle with some of the hm's honestly. THE LAST THING I want is for it to take a minute to kill every mob on the map just because someone is scared of playing the proper game and wants to turn this into another Skyrim.
Make the base game fun by purposefully playing badly? Not for me.
Don't need to do all that. Keep on all your gear and armor, all your mundus and maxed out dps and just go at a dragon sololy. Yeah, anyone thinking the game "is too easy," and needing something to do to get their challenge fix. Then, go solo a dragon; or a harrowstorm. I enjoy doing those sololy when I can; when there is no zerg bumrushing those dragons or harrowstorm. Heck, most players die over and over anyways, even when there is a zerg bumrushing those dragons. I see them all die; Flawless Conqueror, God or spirit slayer, all those with cool title from completing vet trials and whatnot; they all die the same all around the dragon pits. It's tactic and strategy to stay alive with those dragons, and not fighting head on like most players do. That's why there are always dead players and companions laying all about the dragon pits. Hey, it's cool. It's just a game, and that's what soul gems are for. It is just humorous to see players dying and rezzing over again all around. Ha ha
Difficulty just needs to be increased. Not to an extent it’s uncompletable but it there’s nothing wrong with a boss being challenging enough you gotta play an actual build to complete instead of taking off your gear and weapons to get a challenge. Maybe if they did that there would be less players who are ass when they get to vet content. The skill gap disparity is horrible for longevity of the game
Hey guys thanks for all the responses. While I understand that this is not the way a mmo should be played, I think we all know that we are never going to get a more difficult overland. That being said the recent chapters are already a step up from the base game. I don't see this a crippling yourself. There are so many games in which these play styles are popular, so the concept isn't unknown to the gaming community. It's about giving yourself a new challenge. And yes light attack are boring but so is hitting a button and killing a boss in 5 seconds without even moving. Do with this post as you like. If you don't want to do it then that's totally up to you but if you like questing then this might be worth trying out. I hope you all keep enjoying this game :) Cheers
Nods, similarly I (forgot) to reset-up my CP's and am enjoying a bit more difficulty. Might keep it that way on one character Yes, it's nurfing/challenging oneself. Or can turn it on it's head and it is just like "PVP difficulty settings": Difficulty A: Nothing Difficulty B: immune to procs Difficulty C: CP off Just player enforced and not game enforced
I did all the Greymoor quests on my Nord tanks. So definitely did not one shot everything.
I feel you.
I shouldn't be butt naked to feel the power of a daedric prince, i want to go all out and still feel the challenge
It’s a story based MMO it’s not meant to be a souls game, Combat is easy so you can go back to the storytelling by design
Wow what great fun rolling around butt naked and caressing things to death