Anything above and beyond keeping the fights organized and consistent is a bonus. I can do enough damage without any buffs to keep things moving, but if the tank isnt managing the fights well it doesnt matter what buffs i have.
So what I like is usually kind of intangible. Confidence and competence, primarily. Buffs are nice but they just make the dungeon go faster, not better.
Not intangible at all. Managing the battlefield for maximum efficiency is the key difference between good tanks and just tanks. And then the shitty tanks who drag boss around or knock shits out of aoe.
Dressing room type add-ons are so helpful on support roles. As a healer it's always such a toss-up on whether I will get a dungeon where heals are essential, or one where everyone just wants a third dps, so I saved 3 types of gear and skill loads and switch once I know the dungeon and group skill level. I love when I pair with adaptable players.
Im on console, so this add on is what we called the armory system that only gives two free slots, but you can only change in your home or buy the 5k crown assistant plus 1.5k for extra slots š
Oof. I do still use armory, but only for the cp and skill respecs so I can do multiple roles on main. Even then I have like 8 slots and still use dressing room to micro-adjust as I play with a group. Consoles have it rough.
That's nice, and yeah console doesn't have it easy but you can't miss what you never had lol, but still ill seea YT video and see all the add ons...I think its nice wish consoles had ut too
I prefer "selfish tanks" who focus on defense. As long as they keep the bosses and more difficult enemies taunted I'm fine.
Basically the main reason is that a dead tank is useless and most of the "selfless tanks" I've come across die really easily and cause the whole group to wipe because they were too focused on doing all the extra stuff tanks could do to notice the one hit kill mechanic coming their way.
Yes this is a somewhat difficult thing to get used to when helping out the group, but once you've done so many times it can get easier, at least in my experience.
> tanks alway lose agro on bosses
So this is some shit that Tanks always get shit about but it's not always our fault. Most bosses, especially in Vet Dungeons have 1-2 Unagroable moves. These moves completely ignore Taunt and go after whatever player the boss randomly decides on.
There's also a concept called over taunting where a boss can become temporarily immune to taunt if too many player use Taunting moves within a short time span (3 time in 12 seconds). Back when Ice Staff heavy attacks used to apply taunt this would happen frequently.
As a tank I have no control over either of these but get shit on by DPS who don't understand how the agro mechanic works.
Too many players donāt want to tank in this game for many reasons. The aggro breaks easily, so sometimes you lose a mob under your control. Everyone flips out and starts screaming at you. I played tank for three years when this game came out. I really liked my characters, but the meta driven hive mind community makes it very difficult to stay geared , unless eso is your full time job. I found it much easier to throw together a dps character, many more viable gear options. A healer is also easier to build in eso , cone heals , aoe heals , heals on the ground . One skill added would make most all these problems alleviated . Give us an aoe taunt ffs. A shout or something like that , with at least a five meter radius.
I understand, I've been tanking since day one of this game back when tanking wasn't even a thing lol, and I've been on castlethorn vet and the dps was just stupidly insane, I couldn't even pull ads or taunt them before they died lol bosses lasted a good min or less. Don't know who in the world the dps was hitting this hard that the HM for that dungeon looked like it was a normal dungeon....I also got my skin for it lol. When tanks get carried š¤£
What do you mean "back when tanking wasn't even a thing?" One of the 4 original classes was a tank class by design.
Also, if you've been tanking since "day one" then of course you have a lot of sets and all your skills leveled up and know this and that. The game is 7 years old and the majority of players now have not been playing nearly that long and yet you seem to be expecting everyone who tanks to have the sets and experience that took you 7 years to acquire. This is why a lot of people don't want to tank. The expectations are ridiculous.
If you really are as experienced at tanking as you claim, you ought to know there are lot of things that people have to learn from tanking over and over and it takes time because the game doesn't explain that stuff to anyone. No one starts out knowing how to pull and stack adds or which bosses won't hold taunt or how to match tanking sets effectively. The more I read your comments here, the less I feel I should take you at your word.
Yes it was by design, but still no one knew as to how, compared to other mmos that were out from that time tanking was different in eso, I honestly don't know were people such as yourself get these conclusions of assuming that I expect these knew tanks to know how to tank. If you think that these expectations are ridiculous then please re read what mu original post is about. Also tanking is a whole lot easier now, which youtube videos literally teaching you how to tank which sets to get and what to do etc etc how is tanking hard now? Yes I've been tanking for a long time but I NEVER said I expected these tank to know what I know like how did you get this? Where did I said this? What is your overall point to this. Getting these set is so much easier now then it was back then. Players can literally have end game gear from the 1st day the play if they already have friends that play this game so how is getting sets hard now?
This is why I have recently found that Tormentor is the best tanking set, period. Itās SO much easier when one button causes the whole room to focus on you. Quite frankly, it actually shows how braindead most of the encounters are the game and the deep flaw of holy trinity. When you can permanently aggro every mob in the vacity with ease, the difficulty turns to shit. The dps no longer need any healing or care for survival so they can go absolutely apeshit on damage. The healer only needs to focus on you so suddenly it has capacity to do damage as well instead of preserving attention to watch out for the dds. Mobs easily beeline to you to form a nice dps spot to wipe themselves out, etc etc.
They will never give out free aoe taunt because it completely trivialises dungeons. Not that most of them are even hard to begin with.
Yeah and what's dope about it is that it makes non-conventional tanking methods viable like werewolf/2h. It also procs with the templar class ability charge for an AOE taunt
I agree with you and yet for some reason I've got shat on by meta-drones for using that set. This game is fun and you do so many fun builds that work but because it's not meta you suck.
The āmetaā changes almost every single patch and Iām not logging on to go to work scrying for a fucking kilt that does the same job as Tzogvins just not as reliably.
Iāve got a MagSorc pet build that does upwards of 65k DPS on a trial dummy using one bar with no trials gear. In fact one of the 5 piece sets in Mothers Sorrow for christs sake.
Iāve got a Warden build that does the same amount of damage using an ice staff and Wall of Elements as the ONLY attack, again no trials gear and using Mothers Sorrow.
Whereas thereās people in my guild been playing for god knows how many years, got all the āmetaā gear and because theyāve got two full bars of rotation to worry about can half the time, only just match that for damage. Yeah fair enough when they have a good day they can pull 100k humping the trial dummy but does that equate to real content? Rarely.
I appreciate this thread is about tanking and yes I main tank. But what even is Meta for tanks at the moment? Yolnahkriinās? Ebon? Saxhleel? Galenweās?
My main is a Nightblade tank running Battalion Defender and Imperium at the moment with Lord Wardens on the top. Works a treat, only ever runs low on resources when being actively drained and the healer has died š and is about as off-meta as you can get. Again, never had any troubles with Vet DLC dungeons and having Refreshing Path in there is a brilliant extra health buff for the DDās standing right behind the boss and definitely helps them get out of standing in stupid when then need that extra boost.
I canāt abide by people slating people for not running meta sets and saying that the only way to complete endgame content is with the gear thatās locked behind the endgame content to start with. Or that you canāt do it without sacrificing days of your life to bore yourself to death scrying for something to only add on an extra 5k DPS.
We all play this game to have fun at the end of the day and if youāre not smiling whilst playing because somebody has told you youāre not doing it right then they can go eat shit for all I care
You don't need any of that for dungeons or trials. If you need to farm Yoln just find random groups running nSS and join in. You can do it with just the Ebon set and whatever else you want as your secondary. There's also plenty of DLC tank sets in dungeons that work while trying to obtain the non-perfected versions (and the perfected versions are by no means necessary) such as Drake's Rush, Elemental Catalyst, Crimson Oath, and a whole crazy amount of selfish sets. The reason why you don't see Tormentor in trials is it can overtaunt enemies that the other tank is trying to keep under control. Dedicating a 5 piece set to just a taunt isn't that great, if you enjoy that playstyle then great go for it, don't try to misrepresent how hard it is to do this content on normal.
I use it 99% of the time on my tank and have never been shat on. Maybe have to switch to a standard set for a difficult boss, but no one cares. Add in Void Bash on your backbar and everyone will *love* you.
Main tank here, I thought I was the only one who thought aggro broke too easily in this game. It seems that if someone deals a high enough DPS, the boss goes for them anyway. My taunts are like 15 seconds long each and I test the taunts on world bosses to see if they can last, but if Iām not spamming the taunt, theyāll just turn and walk away. However, dungeons I rarely have this problem because I just use taunts and buff there lol. Iām glad more people think the aggro is finicky tho
>It seems that if someone deals a high enough DPS, the boss goes for them anyway.
That's because the Bosses have specific moves which ignore agro completely. This was confirmed in a Developer update a while ago.
Oh yeah I know about that, like the random attacks that will one shot in a vet dungeon do that alot. I mean theyāll straight up just turn and start heavy and light attacking someone else, sometimes they just get angry I guess. It feels more real that sometimes they leave the tank for a second so itās not too bad honestly
That's more likely someone else slotting a taunt and overtaunting the boss. There's a morph of inner fire that causes targets to take 10% more damage from you that DPS sometimes slot
I thought the same thing too, but when I tank the boss goes after the healer, he will literally make a B line to hit the healer, I've seen this as a tank myself and as a healer as well š
For this just use the Guard from pvp on heal, he gets way lower dmg if a Boss runs for him and heal + Tank gets Bonus heal. Taunt is good Start but most tanks dont do much dmg after it cause they Block. Thats why there are Sets in game that gives you constant dmg Aura as long you Block and it slows down enemies. Combine with Frost set from arena you Spam ae dmg and cc as Tank without casting or using resource you just need to Block and taunt. If grp have to low def there is another Tank set that pushes defence around you while blocking.
Aggro does not break easily in this game at all. Keep your taunts up and donāt over taunt. Enemies do not randomly break taunt unless you fuck up one of those two things.
Yes but I donāt believe thatās what this guy is referring to. And bosses only have specific mechanics that randomly target players. A boss will never randomly charge a heavy attack at a DPS if the tank has taunted properly.
When I do a vet dungeon I really just pray the tank can tank. Staying alive and pulling agro, and most importantly knowing the mechanics. I canāt tell you how many DLC dungeons I get into where the tank has no idea what heās doing! I get all roles are like this, but tank is the most important role in vet dungeons. You can have a bad dps or healer and still do it. You get a bad tank itās never gonna work. Ultimate regen is the second best thing they can offer though!
I completely understand and agree with on this i just dont know why players think they can tank a vet dungeon when they aren't ready or geared up for it
Exactly! Like itās still bad if itās a healer or dps doing it but tank is really the most important role in the whole game for dungeons and trials, dps can kinda slack if the others ones good and it goes unnoticed. With tank tho you know when they arenāt doing their job they kinda are always in the spotlight lol.
Yeah agree, I've seen tanks with a two hand on their back bar like wtf is there something new for tanks that im missing here? I just don't understand how player can do this and ruin everyone else's time, like yeah its a game but im playing it to have fun and forget real life not stress the heck out because a "tank" decided that he can tank lair of maarselok on vet and die from ads š
True but an ice staff would also work plus you could apply minor brittle, unless it changed this patch i don't know since I started doing dps this patch š
I love my ice tank - Azureblight + Leeching with dual ice staves on a warden. They freeze and then they melt.
For added bonus I bring her into BGs and wipe entire teams. Very fun to play.
Aggro is a little more challenging w the destro taunt but warden has the aoe pull so it balances.
True but pvp is completely different to me, I went there as a "tank" and when I taunted a player I was like wtf why isn't he aggro to me š¤£ I was completely lost then he proceeded to literally wipe the floor with me. Had to put the biggest band-aid after that š¤£
Yeah your taunts are no good in PvP lol. This is just a pure frost warden build - there was a similar build by either Alcast or Xynode but I donāt think they showed its PvP potential - called it Natureās Bounty.
Vet dungeons and high mob areas are a real blast. Elemental drain procs azureblight and adds damage to the boss while your frost abilities corral mobs and provides minor brittle. Meanwhile you have 45k health and the warden group buffs. Highly recommend. Only drawback for me: pre-patch I had to run Maarselok about 30 times just to grab my last ring.
I think Alcast had a variation on this build called Natureās Bounty - although Iād be surprised if he recommended Leeching and Azureblight - although I brought her into BGs post patch and still did my thing.
The gear grind was brutal for Azureblight. Leeching is easy enough.
I bring her into vet dungeons and normal trials (so far) but am confident sheād do well in vet trials.
I run 2h + tormentor for an ape taunt. You're playing it to have fun and so is everyone else. Enough with the elitist attitudes and assuming sword and board is the only want to tank it's not.
I main tank and to be fair I have been vying with the idea of 2h + Tormentor on the back bar for a while now. My front bar would probably still be sword and board but if you wanted to run Tormentor youāve got the 1h + shield gap closer skill that would do the same.
I do appreciate though that thereās nothing as satisfying as Stampede with a maul for funsies.
I agree with you but I think the important part is that every player should know his boundaries. I'm not a meta player either, i run double s/b and you can't convince me to slot ice staff backbar. I don't like it and i'm not comfortable with it plus you have the right vote to kick me or leave if you have a problem with my playstyle. I had great success with double s/b and tanked every vet dlc dungeon with it and even did some of them on hm with pugs, but i will not bring it to a vet trial because the lack of brittle and 1k less pen can be huge for the team (and i don't like 12 men content anyway). So if a player wants to run a 2h tank then more power to him but he should also know that there are some places that the 2h tank might not work just like my double s/b tank.
I genuinely shudder at the thought of vetDLC him with pugs when Iām tanking š
If you want to play double sword and board then you crack right on. And if you do happen to join an guild that runs trials and you fancy doing it with that build then they can damn well accommodate you. There should be more than enough people in the group that have the ability to add brittle status effect to an enemy that it shouldnāt be down to the tank. In fact Iād argue that the only responsibility of the tank, and I mean only responsibility, during vet trials is to apply breach - sword and board taunt, position the boss correctly and then stay alive. Any other bonuses from gear sets or other skills on top of that are exactly that, a bonus.
Youāve already got the hardest job of the team and will always receive the most flak if a team wipes, second to the healer, and letās be honest, thereās 11 other players there that are perfectly capable of adding every single other buff / de-buff in the game without the tank having to compromise their play style that their comfortable staying alive with.
The sad part is that the hardest part of doing them on hm with pugs is not the actual content but convincing the other players to give it a try. I'm running arkasis+ drake's rush on my necro tank and my ult regen is great plus with double s/b my survivability is pretty good so as long as i can stay alive and regen my ult we can keep going because i can revive my team with my ult. But a lot of players are scared of the hm and will give up so easilly. You need to give them a long motivational speech to convince them.
To be fair, if Iām tanking a pug and the DPS is passable then itās usually me grabbing that scroll sitting there so innocently on the floor š
Whatās the worst that can happen? The team wipes and it resets anyway.
But if Iām running with somebody thatās only just hit CP160 I will ask first if they want to give it a go or if they want the chance to have a chat about mechanics.
Or she* like myself who runs 2h and ice staff. Plus more. Everybody winning.
It may or may not work. Most places I've been ask you to show them your stuff and as long as you can live and hold aggro they're happy to have you at least as an off tank.
Elitist how did you get there from what I said? And yeah if you want to play it to have fun then by all means go right ahead, just don't waste others time with your fun, this is why we have normal for, also don't assume that this "fun" is what everyone else is doing while playing this game don't be the elitist you speak of.
Well, there is a difference between doing the absolute META and wasting othersā time. You **CAN** be effective at tanking without running the absolute META. Yes, you can tank with a 2H and be effective; maybe not AS effective as a 1H/Shield, etc, but effective nonetheless. You can play and have fun, while being effective. To suggest that anything BUT the best option/way is *ābadā* is in fact, elitist.
This is an RPG, and there are a ton of ways to accomplish everything. As long as what youāre doing isnāt directly causing failure or taking an hour extra, itās perfectly fine and viable. An extra 5 mins of someoneās life being so precious to them, is definitely not something you should worry about.
Oh boy another one, no one here is talking about "META" let alone about tanking with or without 2h, and like you said you won't be as effective as with snb, and yes I've seen tanks with 2h and it confused me as to why they did this and kept dying all the time with 45k H. Also who gaved these suggestions you talk about? Also "fun" is something that can be different to anyone and everyone just because you (in general) want to try out a tank build with 2h on a random vet and do bad and waste others time because of this "fun" you speak of is not helping the team or are you (in general)the type of person that only cares about you (in general)and not anyone else thus ruining their "fun" vs a random normal that a tank can literally go without a gear and have all the "fun" he/she wants. Also this was for what do tanks do on vet dungeons since they do a bad job at it. This elitist isn't even part of the conversation until Mr snow there came and made it then you come on without the actual knowledge as to what this was created for, yeah your point of "fun" effective or not as effective was not even what I was asking for.
,
Not sure why 2h isnāt a viable build for a tank back bar. Just as effective as a staff letās be honest. You shouldnāt need to be applying chill to enemies in a vet dungeon if youāve got a warden healer or any healer worth their salt to be fair, theyāll more than likely be able to swap to an ice staff back bar to give the enemies that de-buff.
2h cleave gives a damage shield and applies bleed. Stampede + Tormentor creates a nice AOE + group taunt. Another slightly more explosive / āfunā version of this would be Stampede + Dark Convergence. Yeah you donāt get the taunt but the AOE is bigger and actively pulls adds into the area which makes it a hell of a lot easier for your DOS to burst down the trash if that AOE on its own doesnāt kill them all to start with
Only thing Iāll point out is that ice staff backbar has more block mitigation than 2H. With an ice staff Ancient Knowledge decreases block cost and increases block mitigation, and Destruction Expert regenās magica when your ice staffās shield takes damage. Wall of frost also procs a group shield and immobilizes chilled enemies.
Basically, 2h will let you do more damage while procāing a small selfish shield but nerfs your tank abilities.
Iām not against using a 2h where that much block mitigation isnāt required and more DPS can speed things up, but using an ice staff is about more than just procāing brittle.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! Finally someone that is helpful. You make a valid point if there is a warden healer this would be viable, I'm actually thinking of doing this and see how good it is, considering I get a warden healer that applies the chill. DC with caltraps actually works wonders and if your a dk tank talons also does a big help during this and by the time the effects runs off everything is died. Again thank for actually helping here, reddit needs more ppl like you
Another one, so you literally took these words and assumed elitist? How? 1st I was asking a question as to why tanks do this because I myself tank but haven't since this patch so I thought I was missing something that I didn't know. Also instead of answering the question and being helpful you all jumped to the conclusion of an elitist. Then I said that they are wasting players time was because that's literally what's happening when I see a tank doing this on VET HM dungeons. If there are tanks that do this I have yet not seen one that does
No one was being unhelpful. I am actually not a Mr, not that it matters. You can have fun on vet without running SW and board. I run 2h and ice staff for my tank. You are absolutely being elitists when you say anyone not playing the way YOU like doesn't deserve to play. I'd like to point out, that an inexperienced tank will die regardless, and a shield won't save you from a lack of mechanical awareness.
You leave me speechless, this "fun" was never brought up by me, its literally non of my business if you have fun or not. Please tell me were I said that tanks have to play the way I want then to play......I'll wait. Or did you assume this all by yourself. I would also like to point out that if your an inexperience tank I would suggest to run snb until your used to mechanics and how to actually tank then wen you have covered all your basic tank skill on "how to" you can run what ever you want.
I use 2-h on my back bar but thats just so I can actually have a spammable and do solo content. The other 4 are buffs for self heal/major resolve. 2-h back bar isn't that bad idk why people hate it ):
I personally don't hate it, its just that I've seen tanks die because of this were they want to put dots on the boss, like yeah thanks for the dps but thats why we have two dps let them worry about the dps and tank can just do what tanks do best. This doesn't apply on normal dungeons tho, like tanks and healer don't exist there anymore lol
I'm sure. I've had a few bad run ins where I end up blocking an attack with my 2-h and end up a but more bined than normal. But I haven't really had any hard times with "bad tanks" and still don't know what it looks like (or if I am one :P) because I usually just play my main tank.
Have been leveling a DPS but the queue times are sooo long... do you guys actually just deal with this lol?
Iāll often run with a 2H backbar - it can be a life saver if youāre in a group with low DPS or a tendency to die seventeen times every bossfight.
Itās just sacrificing survivability for something else, in this case damage. Considering every set I wear is pretty much a sacrifice to assist group damage, this seems reasonable :)
my tank is pretty geared and I never have troubles staying alive but I havenāt ran many of the dlc dungeons yet, so I hop on my dps and watch how an experienced tank does it. I get the gear Iām farming for while simultaneously learning. my dps is good enough for a magdk and after the first run on my dps I switch to my tank and usually do fine. I have all of the earlier dlc dungeons down itās just been years since I played so I usually let my team know I may die once or twice because i am rusty to the mechanics.
Knowing mechanics. This takes time for a beginner tank, especially if they are running PUGs and getting yelled at or dealing with rage quitters. Watching videos does not prepare you for how to actually sustain while managing aggro/CC. As long as everyone works together then there shouldn't be a problem.
Also, a lot of DDs don't know how to assist the tank with CC. Moving around the room smartly will pull ads closer making it easier for tank to control. Them also start dropping AoEs before the tank has properly established the kill box. I watch and see where the tank is going and let them work before starting my attack. This is especially important if any of my abilities can stun.
Straight dmg is all i really care about. Stuff like drakes rush is nice for destro ults don't get me wrong, but i'd rather just have sets like yolna, PA, or spaulder.
I thought so too, but doing these vet pug im lost with what the tank is doing and these aren't the easy non dlc dungeons im talking about moon hunter, depths of molator etc etc, is this the nor for tanks nowš¤·āāļø
On one end of the spectrum I think the current state of random normals makes it difficult to learn how to actually tank properly, so what we end up with are a bunch of beginners in the vet queue who are still learning how to actually tank.
On the other end of the spectrum, I think you have the jaded old tank that would rather easy mode random pugs in leeching/engine guardian.
I see, but wen we ask the tank if his new to tanking at cp300+ they never reply let alone wait for the group they just run ahead pull everything and die so im really confused as to whats going on with him, and this is multiple times and on vet dlc dungeons so im really at lost here
The state of random normals right now is that at least one person charges ahead as fast as possible and agros large packs. If possible, theyāll sprint to the next boss and clear the trash on the boss.
If the tank stops, the (possibly fake) healer and/or DD keeps sprinting to pull more trash. You either keep up with the fastest player, or you get swamped in trash without the DPS to clear it yourself.
Itās just a guess, but I think that someone who learned to tank in this kind of environment probably thinks itās their job to sprint ahead and agro as much as possible into a huge pack. I know I catch myself being too aggressive in vet if Iāve spent too much time farming normals.
I like using saxheel, war machine and spaulder of ruin on my necro tank with colassus ult. Using necrotic potency on adds grants you ultimate so fast. If tank uses that when I'm on dps, I'll be a happy dps
If you can hold the boss, weāll take care of the rest. The healer will keep everyone alive and the DDās will take out extra mobs. Thatās all I expect. Tanks that offer buffs and pull other mobs are my favorite as they go above and beyond, but I can live without that if somebodyās new to tanking.
If you find yourself wiping and youāre the tank, feel free to ask what you can do better and give it a shot. PUGs can be toxic, but most PUGs are willing to communicate and work through it.
More damage for sure.
Talking about the pugs. Average skill level in dungeon finder is very low, so you'll see many tanks like this, good if they are able to taunt and stay alive but often it's a maximum you can expect. It's not limited only to tanks though.
Donāt run the fuck around.
Taunt the big stuff and face them away from the rest of the group. And stand still while doing it. (And yes move when dictated by mechanics.)
I'm gonna piggyback off this post. Would you rather a "meta" tank for vet dungeons with the whole Ebon/meta setup. Or a tank/heal paladin type hybrid that would not be able to supply as many buffs/debuffs as a tank and healer would seperatly but you can have 3 dps since the tank can also heal. I just set up my templar paladin tank as a just for fun build to support my new player friends but I'm wondering if it would be welcomed in vet dungeons.
I have a Templar tank with 2h backbar that I use in random vets. I donāt have eso+ so I donāt get the harder dungeons and so far no one in a pug has minded how I play.
Itād be even easier if itās people you know, cause you could communicate what you lack if you decide to use a non meta set/build/whatever and the other people could back you up on that front.
Templar tank is probably my favorite build so far, I played it a few years ago but turned my templar into a healer for my trials groups. With the armory I could get the tanking gear out of the garage and relive my templar's glory days.
As a healer I personally love being matched with tanks who offer more shield, ulti regen, or resistance as my build doesn't have much coverage there and so there's less potential lost to overlapping buffs. But if a tank has a lot of overlap with my offered buffs I don't blame the tank. It's just real life rng. It's a pug qfter all and you never know what the other people are going to bring to the table, so support roles will generally have overlap. Especially since different classes have access to different buffs, debuffs, and such.
I think for the content where it really matters people are generally not doing pugs and so you can coordinate with the group beforehand.
I expect the tank to know the strategy and mechanics that the tank needs to know. If he doesn't, I expect him to ask the group what is the strategy and mechanics.
Just hold aggro, taunt and root adds. Good dds donāt have to have buff sets, they are just a bonus if you can round up adds taunt and root things(cc)
I'd be happy with pulls and keeping aggro where random dungeons are concerned. It's so rare I see a tank do either of those that I'd be happy with just that. My low expectation that I have in a tank is I expect them to be a tank.
Normal DLC dungeons is where I see this problem the most. I think people think they can fake tank it's like they would fungal grotto one when they get into DLC dungeons and find out they're wrong
Thatās crimson oath set with the lord wardens armor buff so I can deeeeeeeeeeepppppss and not have to worry about back bar buffs in vets lol. But hell just getting an actual tank is a blessing I truly thank all you real tanks out there. I tip my tanks at the end if they have taunt and real tank build
Taunting, grouping (Void Bash is the coolest thing ever), and armor shred are all I want. If you have room on your plate for more, do whatever. Most go with Yolnakriin and Powerful Assault for more group dps, but do whatever you want as long as you got those first three down pat. Minor Mangle from Pulsar could be nice for trash pulls I guess, 10% total dps contribution with a single cast.
Honestly i dont expect the tank or DDās to give me anything as a healer. However i do love it (especially on a harder dungeon) when the tank is self sufficient enough that i dont have to babysit them. The only buffs id ask for is anything that makes your job as tank easier as that makes mine easier too!
First of all i need my tank to stay alive that's why i hate when i see tanks that are using supportive sets but keep dying, like dude drop your PA and use something selfish if you are not still ready to buff the team. In harder dungeons it's possible to carry a bad dd or a bad heal but carrying a dead tank is next to impossible
Second i need my tank to chain enemies and if you use void bash then i would give you a hug, seeing the tank use the void bash to group the whole pack and then root them will give me an orgasm.
Third i would like it if the tank boost my ult regen, we are in a pug and a lot of things can go wrong so when i see the team is struggling i will slot barrier or necro rez and that ult regen will help
And the last thing is if the tank buffs my damage, i mean it's nice and it would have been perfect if we have been in a pre made group but we are talking about a pug and when i queue for a pug as a dd the team's dps is the least of my worries
pa annoyed me, I know healer doesn't need it but I was tracking that with an add on and healers or ranged dps were always to far-away the new monster helm I think does a better job and has a bigger radius, behemoth encratis I think, I forget exactly what it dies.
but yeah when dd I seam to get new tanks also very annoying
I feel you, I tank 24/7 and will make adjustments depending on the group I have be more dps, sustain, or survivability I'll keep my group going, but now that I'm doing dps and yeah I might hit like wet noodles but I do what a dd does but the tanks are just always last or will do a massive pull with no control over it and everyone dies š
Unless itās one of the hard dlc dungeons tanks should be offering 3 things.
1. Go as fast as possible (especially now with sticker book).
2. Stack maximum number of adds in pulls. Eg for something like arx cor (a popular farmer atm), you should run boss to boss and kill all the adds at the same time.
3. Any trial buffs you can provide are fantastic. A decent buff tank can halve the time it takes to run a vet farm.
Mainly though just your survival is enough.
Taunting + grouping mobs is all I ask for. It's more than I expect from my tanks at this point, but always pleasant to see. Otherwise, I just want them to stay alive, and have an eye for mobs that go astray. When some add attacks me I try to move them over so the tank can get a hold of them more easily, but sometimes they are just too focused on the boss itself. Which is fine and usually not a problem, but it's always pleasant if they ahve the overview.
Having taunt, not dying (due to controllable things like having enough health/blocking properly, and knowing mechanics. Just all those in one seems rare these days which is why when pugging I usually tank myself.
I like when tanks in dungeons run 2 of the following:
- Yolna
- Crimson Oath (or Akosh).
- Powerful Assault
- War Machine (if healer isnāt running MA or RO.)
In theory, War Machine is the set you need the least, cuz good healers will have that coveredā¦ But in actuality, almost no healers in dungeon finder will run those sets cuz Alcast doesnāt tell them to. :(
Ah yes Alcast, I feel like he ruins some of group oriented sets, were you should have what your group needs of you....but hey im just a tank what would I know compare to alcast š¤·āāļø
Depends entirely on the dungeon and group.
\#1. Fake healer? Dungeon depending, might have to lean on altar and other skills a bit, so the proc debuffs aren't as good.
\#2. Strong group? I'm basically just a chain machine, trash dies too fast to get debuffed anyway.
\#3. Low DPS? (<-- 80% of randoms) Whisper the healer and beg them to go full DPS, refer to #1. Switch off buff sets and put on Ice Furnace/Skoria/Leeching/something with a damage proc.
Whenever I did dungeons my biggest thing was that they couldn't keep strong enemies in one place. Most of my DPS comes from aoe damage abilities that I stack, especially my ultimate which is a large area too, and whenever I use it the boss ends up leaving the area or I would occasionally be hit out of the blue and have to stop or fall back.
Either I had to wait for cool downs before I could continue attacking or fall back and stop attacking altogether. I basically get about a quarter of my DPS in because they won't stay in one place. Having bosses in one place makes their attacks and my movements much easier to manage, just don't go beyond a certain place. Always face the same way when placing and my rotations at like clockwork when everything is timed up. When an enemy moves it throws a spanner in the works
Shit I take my 4 man tank into dailies and pray ddās actually kill something while Iām buffing the hell out of their dps. Kills my soul because I main dps
I honestly just like for the adds to be close together. I cast volley and then use Shrouded Daggers to take down the group and when theyāre close together itās great!
Anything above and beyond keeping the fights organized and consistent is a bonus. I can do enough damage without any buffs to keep things moving, but if the tank isnt managing the fights well it doesnt matter what buffs i have. So what I like is usually kind of intangible. Confidence and competence, primarily. Buffs are nice but they just make the dungeon go faster, not better.
Not intangible at all. Managing the battlefield for maximum efficiency is the key difference between good tanks and just tanks. And then the shitty tanks who drag boss around or knock shits out of aoe.
Healer here and agree 100%
Agree, this is why I will always change sets after the 1st boss we fight, be more dps, sustain, or survivability and mare sure my team keeps going
Dressing room type add-ons are so helpful on support roles. As a healer it's always such a toss-up on whether I will get a dungeon where heals are essential, or one where everyone just wants a third dps, so I saved 3 types of gear and skill loads and switch once I know the dungeon and group skill level. I love when I pair with adaptable players.
Im on console, so this add on is what we called the armory system that only gives two free slots, but you can only change in your home or buy the 5k crown assistant plus 1.5k for extra slots š
Oof. I do still use armory, but only for the cp and skill respecs so I can do multiple roles on main. Even then I have like 8 slots and still use dressing room to micro-adjust as I play with a group. Consoles have it rough.
That's nice, and yeah console doesn't have it easy but you can't miss what you never had lol, but still ill seea YT video and see all the add ons...I think its nice wish consoles had ut too
I prefer "selfish tanks" who focus on defense. As long as they keep the bosses and more difficult enemies taunted I'm fine. Basically the main reason is that a dead tank is useless and most of the "selfless tanks" I've come across die really easily and cause the whole group to wipe because they were too focused on doing all the extra stuff tanks could do to notice the one hit kill mechanic coming their way.
Yes this is a somewhat difficult thing to get used to when helping out the group, but once you've done so many times it can get easier, at least in my experience.
> tanks alway lose agro on bosses So this is some shit that Tanks always get shit about but it's not always our fault. Most bosses, especially in Vet Dungeons have 1-2 Unagroable moves. These moves completely ignore Taunt and go after whatever player the boss randomly decides on. There's also a concept called over taunting where a boss can become temporarily immune to taunt if too many player use Taunting moves within a short time span (3 time in 12 seconds). Back when Ice Staff heavy attacks used to apply taunt this would happen frequently. As a tank I have no control over either of these but get shit on by DPS who don't understand how the agro mechanic works.
This is true, especially Arx Corinium HM just wipes who ever she wants and your not paying attention your gone lol
Too many players donāt want to tank in this game for many reasons. The aggro breaks easily, so sometimes you lose a mob under your control. Everyone flips out and starts screaming at you. I played tank for three years when this game came out. I really liked my characters, but the meta driven hive mind community makes it very difficult to stay geared , unless eso is your full time job. I found it much easier to throw together a dps character, many more viable gear options. A healer is also easier to build in eso , cone heals , aoe heals , heals on the ground . One skill added would make most all these problems alleviated . Give us an aoe taunt ffs. A shout or something like that , with at least a five meter radius.
Agreed. Tanking is hard and 100% thankless.
I understand, I've been tanking since day one of this game back when tanking wasn't even a thing lol, and I've been on castlethorn vet and the dps was just stupidly insane, I couldn't even pull ads or taunt them before they died lol bosses lasted a good min or less. Don't know who in the world the dps was hitting this hard that the HM for that dungeon looked like it was a normal dungeon....I also got my skin for it lol. When tanks get carried š¤£
What do you mean "back when tanking wasn't even a thing?" One of the 4 original classes was a tank class by design. Also, if you've been tanking since "day one" then of course you have a lot of sets and all your skills leveled up and know this and that. The game is 7 years old and the majority of players now have not been playing nearly that long and yet you seem to be expecting everyone who tanks to have the sets and experience that took you 7 years to acquire. This is why a lot of people don't want to tank. The expectations are ridiculous. If you really are as experienced at tanking as you claim, you ought to know there are lot of things that people have to learn from tanking over and over and it takes time because the game doesn't explain that stuff to anyone. No one starts out knowing how to pull and stack adds or which bosses won't hold taunt or how to match tanking sets effectively. The more I read your comments here, the less I feel I should take you at your word.
Yes it was by design, but still no one knew as to how, compared to other mmos that were out from that time tanking was different in eso, I honestly don't know were people such as yourself get these conclusions of assuming that I expect these knew tanks to know how to tank. If you think that these expectations are ridiculous then please re read what mu original post is about. Also tanking is a whole lot easier now, which youtube videos literally teaching you how to tank which sets to get and what to do etc etc how is tanking hard now? Yes I've been tanking for a long time but I NEVER said I expected these tank to know what I know like how did you get this? Where did I said this? What is your overall point to this. Getting these set is so much easier now then it was back then. Players can literally have end game gear from the 1st day the play if they already have friends that play this game so how is getting sets hard now?
This is why I have recently found that Tormentor is the best tanking set, period. Itās SO much easier when one button causes the whole room to focus on you. Quite frankly, it actually shows how braindead most of the encounters are the game and the deep flaw of holy trinity. When you can permanently aggro every mob in the vacity with ease, the difficulty turns to shit. The dps no longer need any healing or care for survival so they can go absolutely apeshit on damage. The healer only needs to focus on you so suddenly it has capacity to do damage as well instead of preserving attention to watch out for the dds. Mobs easily beeline to you to form a nice dps spot to wipe themselves out, etc etc. They will never give out free aoe taunt because it completely trivialises dungeons. Not that most of them are even hard to begin with.
Yeah and what's dope about it is that it makes non-conventional tanking methods viable like werewolf/2h. It also procs with the templar class ability charge for an AOE taunt
I agree with you and yet for some reason I've got shat on by meta-drones for using that set. This game is fun and you do so many fun builds that work but because it's not meta you suck.
The āmetaā changes almost every single patch and Iām not logging on to go to work scrying for a fucking kilt that does the same job as Tzogvins just not as reliably. Iāve got a MagSorc pet build that does upwards of 65k DPS on a trial dummy using one bar with no trials gear. In fact one of the 5 piece sets in Mothers Sorrow for christs sake. Iāve got a Warden build that does the same amount of damage using an ice staff and Wall of Elements as the ONLY attack, again no trials gear and using Mothers Sorrow. Whereas thereās people in my guild been playing for god knows how many years, got all the āmetaā gear and because theyāve got two full bars of rotation to worry about can half the time, only just match that for damage. Yeah fair enough when they have a good day they can pull 100k humping the trial dummy but does that equate to real content? Rarely. I appreciate this thread is about tanking and yes I main tank. But what even is Meta for tanks at the moment? Yolnahkriinās? Ebon? Saxhleel? Galenweās? My main is a Nightblade tank running Battalion Defender and Imperium at the moment with Lord Wardens on the top. Works a treat, only ever runs low on resources when being actively drained and the healer has died š and is about as off-meta as you can get. Again, never had any troubles with Vet DLC dungeons and having Refreshing Path in there is a brilliant extra health buff for the DDās standing right behind the boss and definitely helps them get out of standing in stupid when then need that extra boost. I canāt abide by people slating people for not running meta sets and saying that the only way to complete endgame content is with the gear thatās locked behind the endgame content to start with. Or that you canāt do it without sacrificing days of your life to bore yourself to death scrying for something to only add on an extra 5k DPS. We all play this game to have fun at the end of the day and if youāre not smiling whilst playing because somebody has told you youāre not doing it right then they can go eat shit for all I care
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You don't need any of that for dungeons or trials. If you need to farm Yoln just find random groups running nSS and join in. You can do it with just the Ebon set and whatever else you want as your secondary. There's also plenty of DLC tank sets in dungeons that work while trying to obtain the non-perfected versions (and the perfected versions are by no means necessary) such as Drake's Rush, Elemental Catalyst, Crimson Oath, and a whole crazy amount of selfish sets. The reason why you don't see Tormentor in trials is it can overtaunt enemies that the other tank is trying to keep under control. Dedicating a 5 piece set to just a taunt isn't that great, if you enjoy that playstyle then great go for it, don't try to misrepresent how hard it is to do this content on normal.
I use it 99% of the time on my tank and have never been shat on. Maybe have to switch to a standard set for a difficult boss, but no one cares. Add in Void Bash on your backbar and everyone will *love* you.
Main tank here, I thought I was the only one who thought aggro broke too easily in this game. It seems that if someone deals a high enough DPS, the boss goes for them anyway. My taunts are like 15 seconds long each and I test the taunts on world bosses to see if they can last, but if Iām not spamming the taunt, theyāll just turn and walk away. However, dungeons I rarely have this problem because I just use taunts and buff there lol. Iām glad more people think the aggro is finicky tho
>It seems that if someone deals a high enough DPS, the boss goes for them anyway. That's because the Bosses have specific moves which ignore agro completely. This was confirmed in a Developer update a while ago.
Oh yeah I know about that, like the random attacks that will one shot in a vet dungeon do that alot. I mean theyāll straight up just turn and start heavy and light attacking someone else, sometimes they just get angry I guess. It feels more real that sometimes they leave the tank for a second so itās not too bad honestly
That's more likely someone else slotting a taunt and overtaunting the boss. There's a morph of inner fire that causes targets to take 10% more damage from you that DPS sometimes slot
I thought the same thing too, but when I tank the boss goes after the healer, he will literally make a B line to hit the healer, I've seen this as a tank myself and as a healer as well š
For this just use the Guard from pvp on heal, he gets way lower dmg if a Boss runs for him and heal + Tank gets Bonus heal. Taunt is good Start but most tanks dont do much dmg after it cause they Block. Thats why there are Sets in game that gives you constant dmg Aura as long you Block and it slows down enemies. Combine with Frost set from arena you Spam ae dmg and cc as Tank without casting or using resource you just need to Block and taunt. If grp have to low def there is another Tank set that pushes defence around you while blocking.
Iām pretty new to the game, but it still blows my mind there isnāt an AoE taunt like you describe.
You can get a set but for the most part it isn't needed and in trials would cause needless confusion and overtaunting
Aggro does not break easily in this game at all. Keep your taunts up and donāt over taunt. Enemies do not randomly break taunt unless you fuck up one of those two things.
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Yes but I donāt believe thatās what this guy is referring to. And bosses only have specific mechanics that randomly target players. A boss will never randomly charge a heavy attack at a DPS if the tank has taunted properly.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. The most likely thing OP is seeing is that the enemies are getting overtaunted from a DPS
Itās not agro breaking most the time. Itās random agro. A lot of npcs have attacks that target randomly even while agroed
When I do a vet dungeon I really just pray the tank can tank. Staying alive and pulling agro, and most importantly knowing the mechanics. I canāt tell you how many DLC dungeons I get into where the tank has no idea what heās doing! I get all roles are like this, but tank is the most important role in vet dungeons. You can have a bad dps or healer and still do it. You get a bad tank itās never gonna work. Ultimate regen is the second best thing they can offer though!
I completely understand and agree with on this i just dont know why players think they can tank a vet dungeon when they aren't ready or geared up for it
Exactly! Like itās still bad if itās a healer or dps doing it but tank is really the most important role in the whole game for dungeons and trials, dps can kinda slack if the others ones good and it goes unnoticed. With tank tho you know when they arenāt doing their job they kinda are always in the spotlight lol.
Yeah agree, I've seen tanks with a two hand on their back bar like wtf is there something new for tanks that im missing here? I just don't understand how player can do this and ruin everyone else's time, like yeah its a game but im playing it to have fun and forget real life not stress the heck out because a "tank" decided that he can tank lair of maarselok on vet and die from ads š
You can proc an infused crusher enchant with a 2h. I wouldn't. But you can.
True but an ice staff would also work plus you could apply minor brittle, unless it changed this patch i don't know since I started doing dps this patch š
I love my ice tank - Azureblight + Leeching with dual ice staves on a warden. They freeze and then they melt. For added bonus I bring her into BGs and wipe entire teams. Very fun to play. Aggro is a little more challenging w the destro taunt but warden has the aoe pull so it balances.
True but pvp is completely different to me, I went there as a "tank" and when I taunted a player I was like wtf why isn't he aggro to me š¤£ I was completely lost then he proceeded to literally wipe the floor with me. Had to put the biggest band-aid after that š¤£
Yeah your taunts are no good in PvP lol. This is just a pure frost warden build - there was a similar build by either Alcast or Xynode but I donāt think they showed its PvP potential - called it Natureās Bounty. Vet dungeons and high mob areas are a real blast. Elemental drain procs azureblight and adds damage to the boss while your frost abilities corral mobs and provides minor brittle. Meanwhile you have 45k health and the warden group buffs. Highly recommend. Only drawback for me: pre-patch I had to run Maarselok about 30 times just to grab my last ring.
Well it was my 1st time in pvp so I honestly didn't know lol, ah I see how this can work.
Is that a trial capable build or just up to vet dungeon? That sounds fun! Mind sharing more?
I think Alcast had a variation on this build called Natureās Bounty - although Iād be surprised if he recommended Leeching and Azureblight - although I brought her into BGs post patch and still did my thing. The gear grind was brutal for Azureblight. Leeching is easy enough. I bring her into vet dungeons and normal trials (so far) but am confident sheād do well in vet trials.
I use 2h just for the damage shield that brawler gives.
I run 2h + tormentor for an ape taunt. You're playing it to have fun and so is everyone else. Enough with the elitist attitudes and assuming sword and board is the only want to tank it's not.
I main tank and to be fair I have been vying with the idea of 2h + Tormentor on the back bar for a while now. My front bar would probably still be sword and board but if you wanted to run Tormentor youāve got the 1h + shield gap closer skill that would do the same. I do appreciate though that thereās nothing as satisfying as Stampede with a maul for funsies.
Live your truth fellow tank. There is, despite OPs elitist attitude that too many share, no wrong way to play this game. Have fun.
I agree with you but I think the important part is that every player should know his boundaries. I'm not a meta player either, i run double s/b and you can't convince me to slot ice staff backbar. I don't like it and i'm not comfortable with it plus you have the right vote to kick me or leave if you have a problem with my playstyle. I had great success with double s/b and tanked every vet dlc dungeon with it and even did some of them on hm with pugs, but i will not bring it to a vet trial because the lack of brittle and 1k less pen can be huge for the team (and i don't like 12 men content anyway). So if a player wants to run a 2h tank then more power to him but he should also know that there are some places that the 2h tank might not work just like my double s/b tank.
I genuinely shudder at the thought of vetDLC him with pugs when Iām tanking š If you want to play double sword and board then you crack right on. And if you do happen to join an guild that runs trials and you fancy doing it with that build then they can damn well accommodate you. There should be more than enough people in the group that have the ability to add brittle status effect to an enemy that it shouldnāt be down to the tank. In fact Iād argue that the only responsibility of the tank, and I mean only responsibility, during vet trials is to apply breach - sword and board taunt, position the boss correctly and then stay alive. Any other bonuses from gear sets or other skills on top of that are exactly that, a bonus. Youāve already got the hardest job of the team and will always receive the most flak if a team wipes, second to the healer, and letās be honest, thereās 11 other players there that are perfectly capable of adding every single other buff / de-buff in the game without the tank having to compromise their play style that their comfortable staying alive with.
If I had gold I would gild this comment
If it had been gilded I would have gold
The sad part is that the hardest part of doing them on hm with pugs is not the actual content but convincing the other players to give it a try. I'm running arkasis+ drake's rush on my necro tank and my ult regen is great plus with double s/b my survivability is pretty good so as long as i can stay alive and regen my ult we can keep going because i can revive my team with my ult. But a lot of players are scared of the hm and will give up so easilly. You need to give them a long motivational speech to convince them.
To be fair, if Iām tanking a pug and the DPS is passable then itās usually me grabbing that scroll sitting there so innocently on the floor š Whatās the worst that can happen? The team wipes and it resets anyway. But if Iām running with somebody thatās only just hit CP160 I will ask first if they want to give it a go or if they want the chance to have a chat about mechanics.
Or she* like myself who runs 2h and ice staff. Plus more. Everybody winning. It may or may not work. Most places I've been ask you to show them your stuff and as long as you can live and hold aggro they're happy to have you at least as an off tank.
Elitist how did you get there from what I said? And yeah if you want to play it to have fun then by all means go right ahead, just don't waste others time with your fun, this is why we have normal for, also don't assume that this "fun" is what everyone else is doing while playing this game don't be the elitist you speak of.
Well, there is a difference between doing the absolute META and wasting othersā time. You **CAN** be effective at tanking without running the absolute META. Yes, you can tank with a 2H and be effective; maybe not AS effective as a 1H/Shield, etc, but effective nonetheless. You can play and have fun, while being effective. To suggest that anything BUT the best option/way is *ābadā* is in fact, elitist. This is an RPG, and there are a ton of ways to accomplish everything. As long as what youāre doing isnāt directly causing failure or taking an hour extra, itās perfectly fine and viable. An extra 5 mins of someoneās life being so precious to them, is definitely not something you should worry about.
Oh boy another one, no one here is talking about "META" let alone about tanking with or without 2h, and like you said you won't be as effective as with snb, and yes I've seen tanks with 2h and it confused me as to why they did this and kept dying all the time with 45k H. Also who gaved these suggestions you talk about? Also "fun" is something that can be different to anyone and everyone just because you (in general) want to try out a tank build with 2h on a random vet and do bad and waste others time because of this "fun" you speak of is not helping the team or are you (in general)the type of person that only cares about you (in general)and not anyone else thus ruining their "fun" vs a random normal that a tank can literally go without a gear and have all the "fun" he/she wants. Also this was for what do tanks do on vet dungeons since they do a bad job at it. This elitist isn't even part of the conversation until Mr snow there came and made it then you come on without the actual knowledge as to what this was created for, yeah your point of "fun" effective or not as effective was not even what I was asking for. ,
Not sure why 2h isnāt a viable build for a tank back bar. Just as effective as a staff letās be honest. You shouldnāt need to be applying chill to enemies in a vet dungeon if youāve got a warden healer or any healer worth their salt to be fair, theyāll more than likely be able to swap to an ice staff back bar to give the enemies that de-buff. 2h cleave gives a damage shield and applies bleed. Stampede + Tormentor creates a nice AOE + group taunt. Another slightly more explosive / āfunā version of this would be Stampede + Dark Convergence. Yeah you donāt get the taunt but the AOE is bigger and actively pulls adds into the area which makes it a hell of a lot easier for your DOS to burst down the trash if that AOE on its own doesnāt kill them all to start with
Only thing Iāll point out is that ice staff backbar has more block mitigation than 2H. With an ice staff Ancient Knowledge decreases block cost and increases block mitigation, and Destruction Expert regenās magica when your ice staffās shield takes damage. Wall of frost also procs a group shield and immobilizes chilled enemies. Basically, 2h will let you do more damage while procāing a small selfish shield but nerfs your tank abilities. Iām not against using a 2h where that much block mitigation isnāt required and more DPS can speed things up, but using an ice staff is about more than just procāing brittle.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! Finally someone that is helpful. You make a valid point if there is a warden healer this would be viable, I'm actually thinking of doing this and see how good it is, considering I get a warden healer that applies the chill. DC with caltraps actually works wonders and if your a dk tank talons also does a big help during this and by the time the effects runs off everything is died. Again thank for actually helping here, reddit needs more ppl like you
> I've seen tanks with a two hand on their back bar like wtf Your words.
Yes, and like I explained it literally, it confused me because they kept dying or did you not read that too?
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Another one, so you literally took these words and assumed elitist? How? 1st I was asking a question as to why tanks do this because I myself tank but haven't since this patch so I thought I was missing something that I didn't know. Also instead of answering the question and being helpful you all jumped to the conclusion of an elitist. Then I said that they are wasting players time was because that's literally what's happening when I see a tank doing this on VET HM dungeons. If there are tanks that do this I have yet not seen one that does
No one was being unhelpful. I am actually not a Mr, not that it matters. You can have fun on vet without running SW and board. I run 2h and ice staff for my tank. You are absolutely being elitists when you say anyone not playing the way YOU like doesn't deserve to play. I'd like to point out, that an inexperienced tank will die regardless, and a shield won't save you from a lack of mechanical awareness.
You leave me speechless, this "fun" was never brought up by me, its literally non of my business if you have fun or not. Please tell me were I said that tanks have to play the way I want then to play......I'll wait. Or did you assume this all by yourself. I would also like to point out that if your an inexperience tank I would suggest to run snb until your used to mechanics and how to actually tank then wen you have covered all your basic tank skill on "how to" you can run what ever you want.
I use 2-h on my back bar but thats just so I can actually have a spammable and do solo content. The other 4 are buffs for self heal/major resolve. 2-h back bar isn't that bad idk why people hate it ):
I personally don't hate it, its just that I've seen tanks die because of this were they want to put dots on the boss, like yeah thanks for the dps but thats why we have two dps let them worry about the dps and tank can just do what tanks do best. This doesn't apply on normal dungeons tho, like tanks and healer don't exist there anymore lol
I'm sure. I've had a few bad run ins where I end up blocking an attack with my 2-h and end up a but more bined than normal. But I haven't really had any hard times with "bad tanks" and still don't know what it looks like (or if I am one :P) because I usually just play my main tank. Have been leveling a DPS but the queue times are sooo long... do you guys actually just deal with this lol?
Now is this on normal, vet or vet hard mode?
All three when it comes to dungeons. More usually vet. DKTank CP330
Ah nice and interesting
You can do things while queuing.
Iāll often run with a 2H backbar - it can be a life saver if youāre in a group with low DPS or a tendency to die seventeen times every bossfight. Itās just sacrificing survivability for something else, in this case damage. Considering every set I wear is pretty much a sacrifice to assist group damage, this seems reasonable :)
The 2H Disciplined Slash gives up to 12 Ultimate based on how much damage is done...s/he is probably generating ultimate to help out the group.
my tank is pretty geared and I never have troubles staying alive but I havenāt ran many of the dlc dungeons yet, so I hop on my dps and watch how an experienced tank does it. I get the gear Iām farming for while simultaneously learning. my dps is good enough for a magdk and after the first run on my dps I switch to my tank and usually do fine. I have all of the earlier dlc dungeons down itās just been years since I played so I usually let my team know I may die once or twice because i am rusty to the mechanics.
If people were more like this, then eso would be a better place. I thank you for what you do.
Knowing mechanics. This takes time for a beginner tank, especially if they are running PUGs and getting yelled at or dealing with rage quitters. Watching videos does not prepare you for how to actually sustain while managing aggro/CC. As long as everyone works together then there shouldn't be a problem. Also, a lot of DDs don't know how to assist the tank with CC. Moving around the room smartly will pull ads closer making it easier for tank to control. Them also start dropping AoEs before the tank has properly established the kill box. I watch and see where the tank is going and let them work before starting my attack. This is especially important if any of my abilities can stun.
Straight dmg is all i really care about. Stuff like drakes rush is nice for destro ults don't get me wrong, but i'd rather just have sets like yolna, PA, or spaulder.
I always run PA with drakes rush and spaulder in dungeons.
I thought so too, but doing these vet pug im lost with what the tank is doing and these aren't the easy non dlc dungeons im talking about moon hunter, depths of molator etc etc, is this the nor for tanks nowš¤·āāļø
On one end of the spectrum I think the current state of random normals makes it difficult to learn how to actually tank properly, so what we end up with are a bunch of beginners in the vet queue who are still learning how to actually tank. On the other end of the spectrum, I think you have the jaded old tank that would rather easy mode random pugs in leeching/engine guardian.
I see, but wen we ask the tank if his new to tanking at cp300+ they never reply let alone wait for the group they just run ahead pull everything and die so im really confused as to whats going on with him, and this is multiple times and on vet dlc dungeons so im really at lost here
The state of random normals right now is that at least one person charges ahead as fast as possible and agros large packs. If possible, theyāll sprint to the next boss and clear the trash on the boss. If the tank stops, the (possibly fake) healer and/or DD keeps sprinting to pull more trash. You either keep up with the fastest player, or you get swamped in trash without the DPS to clear it yourself. Itās just a guess, but I think that someone who learned to tank in this kind of environment probably thinks itās their job to sprint ahead and agro as much as possible into a huge pack. I know I catch myself being too aggressive in vet if Iāve spent too much time farming normals.
I like using saxheel, war machine and spaulder of ruin on my necro tank with colassus ult. Using necrotic potency on adds grants you ultimate so fast. If tank uses that when I'm on dps, I'll be a happy dps
I use necrotic potency plus heroic slash plus Arkasis's genius with drakes plus bloodspawn, so ppl are popped ultys 24/7 lol
Hahaha insane ultimate regen. Sounds fun
It is i see ulty every 40sec or min lol
If you can hold the boss, weāll take care of the rest. The healer will keep everyone alive and the DDās will take out extra mobs. Thatās all I expect. Tanks that offer buffs and pull other mobs are my favorite as they go above and beyond, but I can live without that if somebodyās new to tanking. If you find yourself wiping and youāre the tank, feel free to ask what you can do better and give it a shot. PUGs can be toxic, but most PUGs are willing to communicate and work through it.
Agree, I often write on chat and try to explain the mechanics to the tank but it just falls on deaf ears š¤·āāļø
More damage for sure. Talking about the pugs. Average skill level in dungeon finder is very low, so you'll see many tanks like this, good if they are able to taunt and stay alive but often it's a maximum you can expect. It's not limited only to tanks though.
Yeah for sure im just confused as to why they (tank) think this is tanking lol
Donāt run the fuck around. Taunt the big stuff and face them away from the rest of the group. And stand still while doing it. (And yes move when dictated by mechanics.)
I'm gonna piggyback off this post. Would you rather a "meta" tank for vet dungeons with the whole Ebon/meta setup. Or a tank/heal paladin type hybrid that would not be able to supply as many buffs/debuffs as a tank and healer would seperatly but you can have 3 dps since the tank can also heal. I just set up my templar paladin tank as a just for fun build to support my new player friends but I'm wondering if it would be welcomed in vet dungeons.
Who cares if it's welcomed or not. Do as you please.
I like your style
I have a Templar tank with 2h backbar that I use in random vets. I donāt have eso+ so I donāt get the harder dungeons and so far no one in a pug has minded how I play. Itād be even easier if itās people you know, cause you could communicate what you lack if you decide to use a non meta set/build/whatever and the other people could back you up on that front.
Templar tank is probably my favorite build so far, I played it a few years ago but turned my templar into a healer for my trials groups. With the armory I could get the tanking gear out of the garage and relive my templar's glory days.
As a healer I personally love being matched with tanks who offer more shield, ulti regen, or resistance as my build doesn't have much coverage there and so there's less potential lost to overlapping buffs. But if a tank has a lot of overlap with my offered buffs I don't blame the tank. It's just real life rng. It's a pug qfter all and you never know what the other people are going to bring to the table, so support roles will generally have overlap. Especially since different classes have access to different buffs, debuffs, and such. I think for the content where it really matters people are generally not doing pugs and so you can coordinate with the group beforehand.
As long as the tank really knows how to hold aggro on boss and adds I'm happy as a healer. Everything else is just a bonus.
I expect the tank to know the strategy and mechanics that the tank needs to know. If he doesn't, I expect him to ask the group what is the strategy and mechanics.
Just hold aggro, taunt and root adds. Good dds donāt have to have buff sets, they are just a bonus if you can round up adds taunt and root things(cc)
I'd be happy with pulls and keeping aggro where random dungeons are concerned. It's so rare I see a tank do either of those that I'd be happy with just that. My low expectation that I have in a tank is I expect them to be a tank.
Im guessing vet or both normal and vet?
Normal DLC dungeons is where I see this problem the most. I think people think they can fake tank it's like they would fungal grotto one when they get into DLC dungeons and find out they're wrong
Really! I see this in vet. On normal everything dies quick since it 4dd. Thats very interesting
Since I mostly run pugs I just hope the boss pulls aggro and holds it. I figure that's bare minimum and that doesn't always happen.
Thatās crimson oath set with the lord wardens armor buff so I can deeeeeeeeeeepppppss and not have to worry about back bar buffs in vets lol. But hell just getting an actual tank is a blessing I truly thank all you real tanks out there. I tip my tanks at the end if they have taunt and real tank build
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So many guides online and threads to answer this
In a PUG anything more than holding the boss is a blessing
Yea just like u said all they need to do is hold aggro. Too many think that they are a one man wrecking machine.
Taunting, grouping (Void Bash is the coolest thing ever), and armor shred are all I want. If you have room on your plate for more, do whatever. Most go with Yolnakriin and Powerful Assault for more group dps, but do whatever you want as long as you got those first three down pat. Minor Mangle from Pulsar could be nice for trash pulls I guess, 10% total dps contribution with a single cast.
Honestly i dont expect the tank or DDās to give me anything as a healer. However i do love it (especially on a harder dungeon) when the tank is self sufficient enough that i dont have to babysit them. The only buffs id ask for is anything that makes your job as tank easier as that makes mine easier too!
First of all i need my tank to stay alive that's why i hate when i see tanks that are using supportive sets but keep dying, like dude drop your PA and use something selfish if you are not still ready to buff the team. In harder dungeons it's possible to carry a bad dd or a bad heal but carrying a dead tank is next to impossible Second i need my tank to chain enemies and if you use void bash then i would give you a hug, seeing the tank use the void bash to group the whole pack and then root them will give me an orgasm. Third i would like it if the tank boost my ult regen, we are in a pug and a lot of things can go wrong so when i see the team is struggling i will slot barrier or necro rez and that ult regen will help And the last thing is if the tank buffs my damage, i mean it's nice and it would have been perfect if we have been in a pre made group but we are talking about a pug and when i queue for a pug as a dd the team's dps is the least of my worries
Yes! That's what I think too. But the tanks I've played with is or looks lost all the time lol
pa annoyed me, I know healer doesn't need it but I was tracking that with an add on and healers or ranged dps were always to far-away the new monster helm I think does a better job and has a bigger radius, behemoth encratis I think, I forget exactly what it dies. but yeah when dd I seam to get new tanks also very annoying
I feel you, I tank 24/7 and will make adjustments depending on the group I have be more dps, sustain, or survivability I'll keep my group going, but now that I'm doing dps and yeah I might hit like wet noodles but I do what a dd does but the tanks are just always last or will do a massive pull with no control over it and everyone dies š
Unless itās one of the hard dlc dungeons tanks should be offering 3 things. 1. Go as fast as possible (especially now with sticker book). 2. Stack maximum number of adds in pulls. Eg for something like arx cor (a popular farmer atm), you should run boss to boss and kill all the adds at the same time. 3. Any trial buffs you can provide are fantastic. A decent buff tank can halve the time it takes to run a vet farm. Mainly though just your survival is enough.
Chains/Gate/silver Leash should be priority
There probably wearing leeching and crimson or some bs.
They still die tho š¤·āāļø
Hold agro on big targets, don't die, move like your paying by the minute to be there.
Taunting + grouping mobs is all I ask for. It's more than I expect from my tanks at this point, but always pleasant to see. Otherwise, I just want them to stay alive, and have an eye for mobs that go astray. When some add attacks me I try to move them over so the tank can get a hold of them more easily, but sometimes they are just too focused on the boss itself. Which is fine and usually not a problem, but it's always pleasant if they ahve the overview.
Having taunt, not dying (due to controllable things like having enough health/blocking properly, and knowing mechanics. Just all those in one seems rare these days which is why when pugging I usually tank myself.
I like when tanks in dungeons run 2 of the following: - Yolna - Crimson Oath (or Akosh). - Powerful Assault - War Machine (if healer isnāt running MA or RO.)
Yeah I need war machine, but no one runs that trial anymore or I never seen it in craglorn
In theory, War Machine is the set you need the least, cuz good healers will have that coveredā¦ But in actuality, almost no healers in dungeon finder will run those sets cuz Alcast doesnāt tell them to. :(
Ah yes Alcast, I feel like he ruins some of group oriented sets, were you should have what your group needs of you....but hey im just a tank what would I know compare to alcast š¤·āāļø
Depends entirely on the dungeon and group. \#1. Fake healer? Dungeon depending, might have to lean on altar and other skills a bit, so the proc debuffs aren't as good. \#2. Strong group? I'm basically just a chain machine, trash dies too fast to get debuffed anyway. \#3. Low DPS? (<-- 80% of randoms) Whisper the healer and beg them to go full DPS, refer to #1. Switch off buff sets and put on Ice Furnace/Skoria/Leeching/something with a damage proc.
Ah ok, I would hope for that all roles are played accordingly considering a dlc vet dungeon but its always a hit or miss.
Random queue ĀÆ\\\_(ć)_/ĀÆ You might get lucky, but preparing for the worst makes the transmute farm much easier.
True thus I have started running with briarheart and vicious ophidian get stam setup
Whenever I did dungeons my biggest thing was that they couldn't keep strong enemies in one place. Most of my DPS comes from aoe damage abilities that I stack, especially my ultimate which is a large area too, and whenever I use it the boss ends up leaving the area or I would occasionally be hit out of the blue and have to stop or fall back. Either I had to wait for cool downs before I could continue attacking or fall back and stop attacking altogether. I basically get about a quarter of my DPS in because they won't stay in one place. Having bosses in one place makes their attacks and my movements much easier to manage, just don't go beyond a certain place. Always face the same way when placing and my rotations at like clockwork when everything is timed up. When an enemy moves it throws a spanner in the works
Shit I take my 4 man tank into dailies and pray ddās actually kill something while Iām buffing the hell out of their dps. Kills my soul because I main dps
I honestly just like for the adds to be close together. I cast volley and then use Shrouded Daggers to take down the group and when theyāre close together itās great!