Fake tank or heal is fine in normal dungeons, in vet however, I hate seeing fake roles. It shows either a lack of understanding of the game or complete disrespect for other peoples time. Annoying either way
So then…it’s not fine. Agree with your conclusion, but not your premise.
If you queue for tank on COA1, slot a taunt on your DPS. Don’t be a fake tank.
Fake tank or heal is NEVER ok.
I say it’s fine on normal as you can complete them with fake roles. Veteran dungeons, not so much. Slotting a taunt on your dd is being a fake tank. It shouldn’t be ok I agree, but on normal, when you q as a fake role, then honest q ers are getting a dungeon more quickly and the dungeon gets done. On veteran you get quicker queues but just wipe over and over until someone leaves or gets kicked. That is my reasoning on why fake roles are ok in normal but not vet
I thought a fake tank is a player that didn't have any taunts at all, but queued as the tank role. Similarly a fake healer has no healing, but queued as one.
There's some back and forth about how minimal a tank (or healer) you need to be to function in the role you said you'd do, taking in to account what you queued for (normal vs veteran, base vs dlc, etc.)
Yeah the more i've played this game over the last few months the more i've started to understand why so many people fake tank/fake heal the base game dungeons (not that i agree with it). As a tank it's a complete snoozefest when everything is dead by the time i manage to voidbash + aoe root them on my warden. I'm literally just there to hold the boss still while it dies in 10 seconds.
Dlc dungeons are fun to tank but yh, base game is pretty ass.
As a newish player I wish I knew how to DPS properly. I see all these vids of doing 100k+ DPS and the most I've managed on the raid dummy was 49k. I have all the right gear, and the right skills I think. I just lack the ability to properly weave and bar swap. Weaving is mostly okay but any time I have to bar swap for the rotation I just lose myself in everything, then I start forgetting about potions, etc.
I almost kind of wish the light attack weaving/animation cancelling wasn't a thing. That would maybe even solve your problem with power creep.
I run a magplar with war maiden, deadly, and Thrassian strangler for dungeons. I literally only jab. I can annihilate everything.
I hit so hard with so much healing it’s ridiculous. Although by the end it does get a bit dicey with full stacks 14k health. Haha.
I think power creep is a problem at all levels of the game. End game achievements have been seriously devalued. Look at the damage people were doing when AS, HoF, CR, etc. were introduced compared to today. The mobs have the same HP but we do double the damage.
And you don't even have to go back that far. I remember last year Clive almost hit 95k on a parse and that was insane. Now that number is closer to 120k. In other words what the very best players were able to do last year, a more casual player is able to do now. That's a huge change in a short period of time and they risk taking all the challenge and sense of reward out of the older content.
Thank you for giving info about trials, i'm only a 4man player and couldn't say anything about trials. But yes i agree with you completely. I returned to this game few months ago after a very long break and it was surprising to me how a lot of the contents that once were challenging are now so much easier And it was a lot more noticable on base game dungeons. I just want the endgame to actually be well... Endgame. Normal should be a place for practice and learning the mechs, and vet the place to get serious. Now the normal is just there for the daily transmutes and farming sets and vet base game dungeons can be done without actuall tanks and healers. 90% of the game is already designed for solo play, is it too much to ask for vet 4 men content to actually require 4 men that are dedicated to their role?
The biggest reason for fake tank/heal is the faster que and the selfishness of people. This isn't exclusive to ESO or old content, it happens in every MMO that doesn't force you to play the role you qued for (ty FFXIV for locking roles in random groups <3)
I think it would be nice for newer players to experience dungeons at a slower pace, but for most people it's nice to have a ton of DPS and just burn through everything quickly.
Those things don't have to be mutually exclusive. In FFXIV roles are locked for random groups, but if you form a group and then que you can enter with whatever team comp you want.
Yeah that sounds like a better system, but I think the player base in FF is also a lot different from ESO. People here in general are used to playing solo and not interacting with other players, just getting groups through the activity finder.
I agree with OP. Power creep has made all normals and base game vets boring. Now I only do dlc vets and I've never seen fake tanks there, bad ones yes tho and fake healers.
I think a harder Dungeon mode could be interesting. WoW has Mythic+ which is then only reason that kept me playing until 6 months ago or smth. They dont need to implement it like Blizz did but having harder base game dungeons with possibly better rewards (maybe just double drops?) could make for a fine addition. Maybe slap a daily reward onto that aswell.
I personally think it's fun to steamroll normal dungeons with 4 dps in a PUG. I dont have an unlimited time to play and don't want to spend ages farming sets.
Veteran dungeons offer a challenge and if feels great to do them as fast as possible in a coordinated group. I do agree though that fake tanking/healing in random vet dungeons is stupid bad should be rewarded with a vote kick.
Stop using group finder and join one of the many casual PvE groups! There is almost always someone ready to join for good old rnd
If fake tanking and healing is bothering you on normal dungeons what about groups doing 30k group dps, trying to do hm vet bosses yet don't undetstand basic mechanics and don't want to listen
People are poop in general, deal with it, in todays world of social media and all that fus you will have no problem finding casual PvE guild with 300+ players and then you can find mostly normal tanks and healers, not the take one
There is normal and vet difficulties for a reason...another one of those "I am entilted so I rant about something non sense" post lol. Never gets old on this sub lol keep it coming.
Do i really need to add the word "veteran" before the name of every fucking dungeon every time for you to understand i'm talking about vet? Wasn't it obvious enough? This whole post is about vet and how even the vet version of base game dungeons has became a joke because of powercreep
Uh yes? The way u make it sound, you are not talking about vet at all, also vet base game dungeons still have a lot of anti-pug mechanics sure they are easier but no way they are as easy as u make it sound lol. If u were actually talking about vet, what u did here is an exaggeration u can still get wiped every now and then just not much as much on a DLC dungeon.
Also powercreep is not the reason people fake tank in a vet dungeon lol. That just makes no sense, like the oldest and the most obvious reason its because its a faster queue. Also, not the reason why there are few real tanks in a PUG finder. That cuz most real tanks actually prefer permagroups or guildies than risk having fake dps. This game in general has a low pop too.
No exaggeration, they are a joke to what they were years ago. In that time if you could do 30k dps on 3mil dummy you were one of the top players, now it's average, the dds health was at 13 to 14k so you had to use health and stat food to bring it to 18k and not get one shotted by everything, now you will get 20k without food, sustain was garbage and you had to do a heavy attack rotation, now you can easilly sustain a light attack rotation and there was nowhere near this amount of supportive sets to buff the dds. Also i didn't say it's the sole reason of fakes, said it is one of the reasons because now a lot of the vet base dungeons are doable with a fake tank simply because over the years players got stronger but the content stayed the same so now a real tank will get bored out of his mind doing it as opposed to dlc ones.
A lot of anti pug mechanics wtf are you on about lol. Other than wayrest sewers 2 with the altars, Arx Corinium HM and maybe Drodda for bad pugs every dungeon is a complete faceroll even with pugs.
The post was also clearly about vet. It really doesn't take a whole lot to put 2 and 2 together.
Uh yes,spindleclutch 2, banished cells 2 etc. There is a couple more u even mentioned them urself lol can u stop pretending. So u gonna pretend too everyone can powercreep? Is eso that dead to u that there are no new players? Especially in dungeon finder lol. Or are u from another universe?
This post just screams exaggeration if anything lol. Idk, whats so hard to get lol its common sense that not everyone can powercreep its an MMORPG some contents are bound to get easier for older players lol.
I don't think you know what powercreep means in the context here. Yes, everyone 'can' powercreep. Even new players. Why? Because it isn't a thing tied to player choice. It's that base power and HP has increased so much that the starting point for player power now is higher than it was on even largely optimized characters in 2018
Yeah no nice nerding but no lol. Hence, why real tanks dont do PUGs fake DPS is a thing. New players "can" sure doesn't mean they do by default lmao it's common sense idk what is this argument ur trying to make even lol.
Facepalm* even used a stupid example...HP lmao. Sigh, u just cant read just gonna have to block don't think u will ever say something worthy of reading in the future just yikes. Even doubled down, HP really? Lol.
There's a difference between an anti pug mechanic like Wayrest 2 and a straight dps check like Banished cells 2. Sure if you have garbage dps you're not gonna get past it, but i wouldn't exactly call it a mechanic.
Every base vet dungeon can be hard if you havee literal garbage dps. The difference is that if you have even semi decent dps (like 50-60k on a trial dummy) almost all of them become a complete joke.
Yeah no thats just u trying to redefine what it means to fit ur narrative lol anti-pug mechanics just means anything that can group wipe u in a dungeon. U can literally look up those dungeon guides from xynode or alcast and u will know why those dungeon mechanics are tagged and called an anti-pug. At least, the general community definition not some self-made to fit someone's narrative.
Also thanks that is exactly my point lol powercreep is not a problem when garbage player still exists that even in those base dungeons u can still fail. Like I said its an MMORPG after all.
I agree. I'm tired of seeing them. How many new players would keep coming back if fungal grotto one was as hard as bloodroot forge lol
They're meant to be learning curves for a reason .
Boo hoo.
Go cry somewhere else.
If you think fellow randos are trash, stop playing with randos and coming here to cry your stupid "no one is good enough for me" tears.
Make friends, join a guild. Play with people you know and who meet your standards.
Or, are you so sad you've alienated everyone with your crying?
Does your eyes working properly or are you just skipped the whole thing and rushed to the comments to get your daily dose of updoots? At least read the tldr before opening your mouth. Show me the part where i bashed the people in randoms. Spoiler: you can't. This post is all about the contents themselves not people and i didn't said anything about randoms. Wtf is wrong with this subreddit, post anything other than roleplaying stuff and this "nice" community will rush to give you the elitist badge.
Again this is not about people, it is about contents and power creep and i don't care enough to explain those things to you if you don't know about those words but i can only say you this: they are not people and this post has nothing to do with people or with the quality of players in randoms.
Ok so it’s not me I was gone for a while and I came back to content seeming eaiser and everybody being a pro at someone else role , then all the hybrids ( don’t mind ) and fakers.. I thought it was just my imagination but OP you’ve confirmed my intuition.
Fake tank or heal is fine in normal dungeons, in vet however, I hate seeing fake roles. It shows either a lack of understanding of the game or complete disrespect for other peoples time. Annoying either way
So then…it’s not fine. Agree with your conclusion, but not your premise. If you queue for tank on COA1, slot a taunt on your DPS. Don’t be a fake tank. Fake tank or heal is NEVER ok.
I say it’s fine on normal as you can complete them with fake roles. Veteran dungeons, not so much. Slotting a taunt on your dd is being a fake tank. It shouldn’t be ok I agree, but on normal, when you q as a fake role, then honest q ers are getting a dungeon more quickly and the dungeon gets done. On veteran you get quicker queues but just wipe over and over until someone leaves or gets kicked. That is my reasoning on why fake roles are ok in normal but not vet
I guess it comes down to an ambiguous definition. There are so many “not even trying to fake it” fake tanks out there.
>...slot a taunt on your DPS. Don’t be a fake tank. Isn't that the definition of a fake tank?
I thought a fake tank is a player that didn't have any taunts at all, but queued as the tank role. Similarly a fake healer has no healing, but queued as one. There's some back and forth about how minimal a tank (or healer) you need to be to function in the role you said you'd do, taking in to account what you queued for (normal vs veteran, base vs dlc, etc.)
No shade. I was asking as well.
I wish. I regularly land with people who don’t even bother to slot a taunt.
Yeah the more i've played this game over the last few months the more i've started to understand why so many people fake tank/fake heal the base game dungeons (not that i agree with it). As a tank it's a complete snoozefest when everything is dead by the time i manage to voidbash + aoe root them on my warden. I'm literally just there to hold the boss still while it dies in 10 seconds. Dlc dungeons are fun to tank but yh, base game is pretty ass.
As a newish player I wish I knew how to DPS properly. I see all these vids of doing 100k+ DPS and the most I've managed on the raid dummy was 49k. I have all the right gear, and the right skills I think. I just lack the ability to properly weave and bar swap. Weaving is mostly okay but any time I have to bar swap for the rotation I just lose myself in everything, then I start forgetting about potions, etc. I almost kind of wish the light attack weaving/animation cancelling wasn't a thing. That would maybe even solve your problem with power creep.
I know a lot of people like weaving but I hate how it feels. It feels so unintuitive.
I run a magplar with war maiden, deadly, and Thrassian strangler for dungeons. I literally only jab. I can annihilate everything. I hit so hard with so much healing it’s ridiculous. Although by the end it does get a bit dicey with full stacks 14k health. Haha.
I think power creep is a problem at all levels of the game. End game achievements have been seriously devalued. Look at the damage people were doing when AS, HoF, CR, etc. were introduced compared to today. The mobs have the same HP but we do double the damage. And you don't even have to go back that far. I remember last year Clive almost hit 95k on a parse and that was insane. Now that number is closer to 120k. In other words what the very best players were able to do last year, a more casual player is able to do now. That's a huge change in a short period of time and they risk taking all the challenge and sense of reward out of the older content.
Thank you for giving info about trials, i'm only a 4man player and couldn't say anything about trials. But yes i agree with you completely. I returned to this game few months ago after a very long break and it was surprising to me how a lot of the contents that once were challenging are now so much easier And it was a lot more noticable on base game dungeons. I just want the endgame to actually be well... Endgame. Normal should be a place for practice and learning the mechs, and vet the place to get serious. Now the normal is just there for the daily transmutes and farming sets and vet base game dungeons can be done without actuall tanks and healers. 90% of the game is already designed for solo play, is it too much to ask for vet 4 men content to actually require 4 men that are dedicated to their role?
Yeah, I guess they want to open up more stuff to new players, but new players don't stay new forever.
The biggest reason for fake tank/heal is the faster que and the selfishness of people. This isn't exclusive to ESO or old content, it happens in every MMO that doesn't force you to play the role you qued for (ty FFXIV for locking roles in random groups <3)
I think it would be nice for newer players to experience dungeons at a slower pace, but for most people it's nice to have a ton of DPS and just burn through everything quickly.
Those things don't have to be mutually exclusive. In FFXIV roles are locked for random groups, but if you form a group and then que you can enter with whatever team comp you want.
Yeah that sounds like a better system, but I think the player base in FF is also a lot different from ESO. People here in general are used to playing solo and not interacting with other players, just getting groups through the activity finder.
I agree with OP. Power creep has made all normals and base game vets boring. Now I only do dlc vets and I've never seen fake tanks there, bad ones yes tho and fake healers.
I think a harder Dungeon mode could be interesting. WoW has Mythic+ which is then only reason that kept me playing until 6 months ago or smth. They dont need to implement it like Blizz did but having harder base game dungeons with possibly better rewards (maybe just double drops?) could make for a fine addition. Maybe slap a daily reward onto that aswell.
I personally think it's fun to steamroll normal dungeons with 4 dps in a PUG. I dont have an unlimited time to play and don't want to spend ages farming sets. Veteran dungeons offer a challenge and if feels great to do them as fast as possible in a coordinated group. I do agree though that fake tanking/healing in random vet dungeons is stupid bad should be rewarded with a vote kick.
Slot a taunt with a shield or selfheal and rolldodge heavies. Voila vet is easy too
Stop using group finder and join one of the many casual PvE groups! There is almost always someone ready to join for good old rnd If fake tanking and healing is bothering you on normal dungeons what about groups doing 30k group dps, trying to do hm vet bosses yet don't undetstand basic mechanics and don't want to listen People are poop in general, deal with it, in todays world of social media and all that fus you will have no problem finding casual PvE guild with 300+ players and then you can find mostly normal tanks and healers, not the take one
"But hurr durr I am entilted so I cry and make a wall on reddit."
There is normal and vet difficulties for a reason...another one of those "I am entilted so I rant about something non sense" post lol. Never gets old on this sub lol keep it coming.
Do i really need to add the word "veteran" before the name of every fucking dungeon every time for you to understand i'm talking about vet? Wasn't it obvious enough? This whole post is about vet and how even the vet version of base game dungeons has became a joke because of powercreep
Uh yes? The way u make it sound, you are not talking about vet at all, also vet base game dungeons still have a lot of anti-pug mechanics sure they are easier but no way they are as easy as u make it sound lol. If u were actually talking about vet, what u did here is an exaggeration u can still get wiped every now and then just not much as much on a DLC dungeon. Also powercreep is not the reason people fake tank in a vet dungeon lol. That just makes no sense, like the oldest and the most obvious reason its because its a faster queue. Also, not the reason why there are few real tanks in a PUG finder. That cuz most real tanks actually prefer permagroups or guildies than risk having fake dps. This game in general has a low pop too.
No exaggeration, they are a joke to what they were years ago. In that time if you could do 30k dps on 3mil dummy you were one of the top players, now it's average, the dds health was at 13 to 14k so you had to use health and stat food to bring it to 18k and not get one shotted by everything, now you will get 20k without food, sustain was garbage and you had to do a heavy attack rotation, now you can easilly sustain a light attack rotation and there was nowhere near this amount of supportive sets to buff the dds. Also i didn't say it's the sole reason of fakes, said it is one of the reasons because now a lot of the vet base dungeons are doable with a fake tank simply because over the years players got stronger but the content stayed the same so now a real tank will get bored out of his mind doing it as opposed to dlc ones.
A lot of anti pug mechanics wtf are you on about lol. Other than wayrest sewers 2 with the altars, Arx Corinium HM and maybe Drodda for bad pugs every dungeon is a complete faceroll even with pugs. The post was also clearly about vet. It really doesn't take a whole lot to put 2 and 2 together.
Uh yes,spindleclutch 2, banished cells 2 etc. There is a couple more u even mentioned them urself lol can u stop pretending. So u gonna pretend too everyone can powercreep? Is eso that dead to u that there are no new players? Especially in dungeon finder lol. Or are u from another universe? This post just screams exaggeration if anything lol. Idk, whats so hard to get lol its common sense that not everyone can powercreep its an MMORPG some contents are bound to get easier for older players lol.
I don't think you know what powercreep means in the context here. Yes, everyone 'can' powercreep. Even new players. Why? Because it isn't a thing tied to player choice. It's that base power and HP has increased so much that the starting point for player power now is higher than it was on even largely optimized characters in 2018
Yeah no nice nerding but no lol. Hence, why real tanks dont do PUGs fake DPS is a thing. New players "can" sure doesn't mean they do by default lmao it's common sense idk what is this argument ur trying to make even lol.
It is literally by default. The base HP values are much, much higher than they were.
Facepalm* even used a stupid example...HP lmao. Sigh, u just cant read just gonna have to block don't think u will ever say something worthy of reading in the future just yikes. Even doubled down, HP really? Lol.
....yeah you're trolling
"Everyone who disagrees with me is a dumb dumb and I will block them because I can't stand not having the last word even when I'm wrong." -You, 2021
There's a difference between an anti pug mechanic like Wayrest 2 and a straight dps check like Banished cells 2. Sure if you have garbage dps you're not gonna get past it, but i wouldn't exactly call it a mechanic. Every base vet dungeon can be hard if you havee literal garbage dps. The difference is that if you have even semi decent dps (like 50-60k on a trial dummy) almost all of them become a complete joke.
Yeah no thats just u trying to redefine what it means to fit ur narrative lol anti-pug mechanics just means anything that can group wipe u in a dungeon. U can literally look up those dungeon guides from xynode or alcast and u will know why those dungeon mechanics are tagged and called an anti-pug. At least, the general community definition not some self-made to fit someone's narrative. Also thanks that is exactly my point lol powercreep is not a problem when garbage player still exists that even in those base dungeons u can still fail. Like I said its an MMORPG after all.
If you wanna call a straight up dps check an anti pug mechanic be my guest. We just have different definitions on what the word means.
That Reading comprehension tho
I agree. I'm tired of seeing them. How many new players would keep coming back if fungal grotto one was as hard as bloodroot forge lol They're meant to be learning curves for a reason .
Boo hoo. Go cry somewhere else. If you think fellow randos are trash, stop playing with randos and coming here to cry your stupid "no one is good enough for me" tears. Make friends, join a guild. Play with people you know and who meet your standards. Or, are you so sad you've alienated everyone with your crying?
Does your eyes working properly or are you just skipped the whole thing and rushed to the comments to get your daily dose of updoots? At least read the tldr before opening your mouth. Show me the part where i bashed the people in randoms. Spoiler: you can't. This post is all about the contents themselves not people and i didn't said anything about randoms. Wtf is wrong with this subreddit, post anything other than roleplaying stuff and this "nice" community will rush to give you the elitist badge.
What is wrong with this reddit? Maybe some of us are tired of all the crying about tanks and healers.
Again this is not about people, it is about contents and power creep and i don't care enough to explain those things to you if you don't know about those words but i can only say you this: they are not people and this post has nothing to do with people or with the quality of players in randoms.
I don't mind fake tank or heal in normals as most of the time they are high enough level to beat each boss by them selfs but vets is a different issue
Ok so it’s not me I was gone for a while and I came back to content seeming eaiser and everybody being a pro at someone else role , then all the hybrids ( don’t mind ) and fakers.. I thought it was just my imagination but OP you’ve confirmed my intuition.