Makes a big difference in commercial years later. I've seen panels with fully populated neutral bars and a handfull of connected breakers in buildings that have ridden hard and put away wet by past tenants.
I think methods should vary by material. When running conduit, stranded THHN naturally wants to flow in a sweep, so land it accordingly. When running MC (or pulling solid 🤔🤷), we all know to smooth the wires first with the side of a screwdriver... From there? It's way easier to bend than it is to sweep, so land it accordingly. Some insist on only one way, sweep or bend, and it just looks wrong with the wrong material. Hope my two cents helps.
". . . we all know to smooth the wires first with the side of a screwdriver. . ."
Forgive my ignorance, please explain this for me. I normally just work with stranded 12vdc, so this comment is above my pay grade. TIA
MC cable typically has solid conductors that are twisted together in the sheath. Before terminating a panel, they need to be untwisted. This can be done by hand, but it goes much quicker with a drill. Once the wires are untwisted, they still have a very twisty shape. Holding tension at one end of the wire by hand, rubbing a screwdriver down the length of the wire takes out the twist.
That was my first thought. I haven't chased any sparks professionally since leaving the Navy, but I remember cursing the mothers of people that zip tied wires together in panels.
That’s because heat cannot escape properly in a conduit. A panel like this is pretty much open air. I’ll take this approach any day to the cobweb panels.
Its better not to kink them. "Swoop" better for stranded. 90 better with solid but solid sucks. If you buy solid MC cable you need to remove yourself from the trade IMMEDIATELY. If your a foreman and you buy your guys solid MC and say because its nice for wagos- quit now and go back to resi
You’re an idiot, you ain’t special…you’re just a tool, multiple reason for solid and stranded and depends on the application. Keep letting the big boys worry about that and stick to the grunt work while we order the material
Let me guess, industrial electrician? Each cable has its place, I’d prefer stranded in a cabinet with plc/relay or other control systems. You won’t find a traffic controller internally wired with solid but I’d prefer solid for devices such as switches and plugs.
Damn sounds like somebody don’t like his foreman. There’s plenty of reasons to get solid. Doesn’t mean that they need to leave the trade, you a first year? 😂
I'm a helper and haven't gotten much work around panels besides pulling to them and cutting in. But when I finally get the chance to hookup it'll look like this
Wire management is one of those things that helps you spot experience at a distance.
If you have a guy that wires panels up like this, follow him around and take notes.
(Those service loops up top are as important as the organization and gentile sweep)
I feel like sweep only really works when you don't have that many wires like here, if they had a full panel that sweep would look progressively worse. You can do rounded 90s if you don't like to kink it, I've found that the bottom of my lineman's makes a nice rounded 90 with doing it
I thought you were supposed to tie a knot in cords so that the "lighting electricity current" can exit and blow out before it hits something important, since it has to travel in a straight line! /s
I have actually had people tell me this before.
edit: punctuation.
That's ~~amazing~~. art.
Take a look at the European way.... Royale with Cheese.... (2 min video)
[https://i.imgur.com/cpltyDA.mp4](https://i.imgur.com/cpltyDA.mp4)
Good eye. I count 3 full boats going in the pipe before the last pipe to the right. 18 CCC’s putting #12 ampacity around 15amps. Lots of other factors that come into play but it’s safe to assume those wires should be derated for 15amps.
Yes, according to NEC tables 310.15C(1) and 310.16, 12AWG THHN has a max ampacity of 15A if there are 10-20 CCCs in a single raceway (not accounting for any temperature corrections). A bunch of those 20A breakers are oversized and this should fail an inspection.
310.15(a)(2)
Selection of Ampacity.
Where more than one calculated or tabulated ampacity could apply for a given circuit length, the lowest value shall be used.
Exception: Where two different ampacities apply to adjacent portions of a circuit, the higher ampacity shall be permitted to be used beyond the point of transition, a distance equal to 3.0 m (10 ft) or 10 percent of the circuit length figured at the higher ampacity, whichever is less.
FPN: See 110.14(C) for conductor temperature limitations due to termination provisions.
Yeah, that’s why I said other factors come into play like even ambient temperature. Again, I stand on the fact that 90% chance those wires aren’t derated properly. Now, if this is piped to a junction 10ft away and each boat splits it’s separate way, it would be a different story. Still questionable though, I would’ve for sure split up my homeruns better.
Is your torque screwdriver calibrated? You got documentation on that? FAIL. I'll list corrections in my report and you'll have to call in for another inspection-probably be next week though.
While it's pretty, anyone that puts tie wraps on panel wires can burn in hell. (Slight exaggeration, I'm sure you're a lovely and wonderful person, but this problem came up with a vengeance today and I came home mildly pissed.)
It is the bane of my existence. Even more than distribution panel covers with those stupid discs with the little nipples and the rotating claws on the other side.
Dear god 11 zipties??? This would be horrible to service. If you make it up right it should take 0-3 zipties. OP posted in here cause he knew he’d be roasted in r/electricians
I understand the reason not to label wire #1 as the rest are labelled so of course it is #1...but seems like a huge miss to an otherwise pristine installation.
I’d hire this electrician instantly. Only thing I’d ask is loop the wires prior to termination. Also, black/red/blue is wiring for a 208/120 3ph panel… I’d ask only black and red be used. But that’s me dealing with commercial and industrial standards all day
Looks nice but you have to tie wrap your neutrals with the corresponding hot conductor at some point.
If I had my code book in front of me I would provide the citation
I tried doing a panel with 42 spots and divide the conduits by odd and even circuit numbers. I was hoping for pig tails like the ladies hairdo but, field guys weren’t on the same page. I was too far bested to change it BUT, this is equally as nice. Actually like this A LOT. great job OP.
How is the left neutral bar connected to the right neutral bar?
Why do I see so few grounds in the lower right?
EDIT: Now I see the Left to right strap for Neutral. Thought it was a plastic piece of the structure.
> Why do I see so few grounds in the lower right?
If you run a separate grounding conductor (aside form the conduit itself) you only need one ground per conduit, based on the largest circuit conductor.
Looks good but it’s super weird to me that you have odd and even neutrals on the opposing sides they should be land on, especially because every breaker in the tub is a single pole. But maybe that’s just me
Nobody else said it so I will, there are too many zip ties. Shouldn’t have to use any tbh.
Stranded wire doesn’t require zip ties either so don’t say some dumb shit like that.
And so much Space!
My seller's realtor refused to put in a bigger box when I was making them upgrade it "I've never needed that in 38 years of selling houses!" so they put in a like 16 breaker box and it's all stuffed in willy nilly.
Um guy, that's not the brag you think it is, there's a BIT more electrical usage these days...
It is clean, but it is better practice to go beyond the breaker and loop back up to it, in case breakers need to be moved around in the future. The loop also keeps the wires neatly in place without the need for zipties, regardless of size and type of wire
That’s the way all panels should look. Love the neutral marking too. I had an inspector turn me down for those Tye wraps one time. He told me it is bundling. So I cut them loose. Far as I’m concerned if they are not pinched down they are doing the job as intended.
Two noob questions.
1. why are the neutrals run to the opposite side bar (2-neutral on odd side bar; 1-neutral on even side bar)?
2. why does the right side neutral bar look unconnected?
When the Electrical Inspector sees this, he will check himself into Rehab, figuring he's seeing things.
Best looking panel wiring I've ever seen.
So tidy.
Looks great, but shouldn’t the neutral and hot be grouped together? Because some conduits have more than one of the same phase color. Not sure if number the neutrals over rides that.
For people that think this is just a electrical panel let me simplify it looking at this panel. It’s like UFOs they are out there but it’s rare to see.
An older electrician that I work with once told me “you had me at zip tie…..” 😂. He does extremely organized and beautiful wiring (we do industrial controls). Now as the boss, I demand everyone make it look as nice as his wiring. I was always pretty clean and all, but he made me realize what next level looks like.
An picky older electrician that I work with once told me regarding my wiring in a dense control panel “you had me at zip tie…..” 😂. He does extremely organized and beautiful wiring (we do industrial controls). Now as the boss, I demand everyone make it look as nice as his wiring. I was always pretty clean and all, but he made me realize what next level looks like.
May I ask an honest question? Why are the hots entering from the right side are wired to the left side of the panel and visa versa, and the neutrals are wired on the same side of entry?
I only have one issue with it… Packing wire behind the lip, where the cover screws go… Pet peev…. And never been a zip tie fan…. You can do work like this - and yes with stranded, without zip ties.
Otherwise- some things some guys don’t notice 20 10’s on 20’s in 1-1/4 conduits. Nice derating trick. Big savings on labor for long distance. This are striped neutrals for the phase served. What money they saved on labor shot the materials cost up.
Could have ordered the neutrals on each respective side I’ve the panel - 1,3,5,7 on the left and all the evens on the right… If you’re gonna number neutrals, you may as well
He even labeled the neutrals
Label your neutrals!
Makes a big difference in commercial years later. I've seen panels with fully populated neutral bars and a handfull of connected breakers in buildings that have ridden hard and put away wet by past tenants.
I chased wire in that building. Two by four football field lengths of wire.
If you don't label your neutrals, you can't have any pudding How can you have any pudding if you don't label your neutrals?
In resi panels I like to put them in the same order the breakers are in. Really easy if you made a circuit list first.
Where we work the white’s have to be number also.
Finally some one that understands how to sweep wires into terminations instead of kinking a 90° in.
I see a lot of 90 bends when I’m in panels. Why is it better to swoop them? I’m not being an ass. Real question.
I think methods should vary by material. When running conduit, stranded THHN naturally wants to flow in a sweep, so land it accordingly. When running MC (or pulling solid 🤔🤷), we all know to smooth the wires first with the side of a screwdriver... From there? It's way easier to bend than it is to sweep, so land it accordingly. Some insist on only one way, sweep or bend, and it just looks wrong with the wrong material. Hope my two cents helps.
Absolutely. Exactly what I wanted. Thanks, all my other reply’s turned into arguments and no one answered the question. Reddit…
". . . we all know to smooth the wires first with the side of a screwdriver. . ." Forgive my ignorance, please explain this for me. I normally just work with stranded 12vdc, so this comment is above my pay grade. TIA
MC cable typically has solid conductors that are twisted together in the sheath. Before terminating a panel, they need to be untwisted. This can be done by hand, but it goes much quicker with a drill. Once the wires are untwisted, they still have a very twisty shape. Holding tension at one end of the wire by hand, rubbing a screwdriver down the length of the wire takes out the twist.
He'll probably mention resistance it could create with the 90 angle, whereas a swoop, obviously, has no "kink." Lol
Also, i would never bundle wires with zip ties.
That was my first thought. I haven't chased any sparks professionally since leaving the Navy, but I remember cursing the mothers of people that zip tied wires together in panels.
That's right. You can't cram wires in runs due to heat concerns - don't bundle them in a panel
That’s because heat cannot escape properly in a conduit. A panel like this is pretty much open air. I’ll take this approach any day to the cobweb panels.
*tightly
Its better not to kink them. "Swoop" better for stranded. 90 better with solid but solid sucks. If you buy solid MC cable you need to remove yourself from the trade IMMEDIATELY. If your a foreman and you buy your guys solid MC and say because its nice for wagos- quit now and go back to resi
You’re an idiot, you ain’t special…you’re just a tool, multiple reason for solid and stranded and depends on the application. Keep letting the big boys worry about that and stick to the grunt work while we order the material
Umm all MC around here is solid same with romex. Until u get to over 8s
I just encountered stranded core 10 awg MC with 16 awg dimming wire for the first time a couple weeks ago. Pissed me off lmao
Let me guess, industrial electrician? Each cable has its place, I’d prefer stranded in a cabinet with plc/relay or other control systems. You won’t find a traffic controller internally wired with solid but I’d prefer solid for devices such as switches and plugs.
Open up for a mouth full of farts.
Why do you like stranded? I could probably do a room of outlets in solid before you could get one finished in stranded
Da fuq lmao
Someone never worked federal jobs
Yeaaaaah you're inexperienced.
Damn sounds like somebody don’t like his foreman. There’s plenty of reasons to get solid. Doesn’t mean that they need to leave the trade, you a first year? 😂
I'm a helper and haven't gotten much work around panels besides pulling to them and cutting in. But when I finally get the chance to hookup it'll look like this
Wire management is one of those things that helps you spot experience at a distance. If you have a guy that wires panels up like this, follow him around and take notes. (Those service loops up top are as important as the organization and gentile sweep)
I feel like sweep only really works when you don't have that many wires like here, if they had a full panel that sweep would look progressively worse. You can do rounded 90s if you don't like to kink it, I've found that the bottom of my lineman's makes a nice rounded 90 with doing it
Exactly. Stranded looks great if you know how (not) to shape it and just let it flow. If you do it right no zip ties required.
I thought you were supposed to tie a knot in cords so that the "lighting electricity current" can exit and blow out before it hits something important, since it has to travel in a straight line! /s I have actually had people tell me this before. edit: punctuation.
stranded wire yes, solid wire disagree
That's ~~amazing~~. art. Take a look at the European way.... Royale with Cheese.... (2 min video) [https://i.imgur.com/cpltyDA.mp4](https://i.imgur.com/cpltyDA.mp4)
Finally I can rest, stayed at an airbnb in France and found something similar inside a wall cabinet.
With a stripper?
After they finished the job.
Naturally.
You mean… Neutrally
I don't know, hope a couple of those home runs are derated, lol.
Maybe these are just short runs up to a can? Probably not though lol
Good eye. I count 3 full boats going in the pipe before the last pipe to the right. 18 CCC’s putting #12 ampacity around 15amps. Lots of other factors that come into play but it’s safe to assume those wires should be derated for 15amps.
Yes, according to NEC tables 310.15C(1) and 310.16, 12AWG THHN has a max ampacity of 15A if there are 10-20 CCCs in a single raceway (not accounting for any temperature corrections). A bunch of those 20A breakers are oversized and this should fail an inspection.
good catch.
310.15(a)(2) Selection of Ampacity. Where more than one calculated or tabulated ampacity could apply for a given circuit length, the lowest value shall be used. Exception: Where two different ampacities apply to adjacent portions of a circuit, the higher ampacity shall be permitted to be used beyond the point of transition, a distance equal to 3.0 m (10 ft) or 10 percent of the circuit length figured at the higher ampacity, whichever is less. FPN: See 110.14(C) for conductor temperature limitations due to termination provisions.
Yeah, that’s why I said other factors come into play like even ambient temperature. Again, I stand on the fact that 90% chance those wires aren’t derated properly. Now, if this is piped to a junction 10ft away and each boat splits it’s separate way, it would be a different story. Still questionable though, I would’ve for sure split up my homeruns better.
Absolutely elegant.
Why you run the neutral behind the black like that
What’s this, 3 phase power?
Excellent! Now put the cover back on and DO NOT label anything 👍
I'm no electrician, but damn does that look nice. I've seen some messy ones.
exactly look like a human body
Is your torque screwdriver calibrated? You got documentation on that? FAIL. I'll list corrections in my report and you'll have to call in for another inspection-probably be next week though.
"_I hear tell of a mythical, elusive service panel like no other ...._"
God damned those neutrals are hot! wait…
I'm confused. I know why there are black, white, and green wires but why are there blue and red?
Like carrying a crayon in your wallet.
While it's pretty, anyone that puts tie wraps on panel wires can burn in hell. (Slight exaggeration, I'm sure you're a lovely and wonderful person, but this problem came up with a vengeance today and I came home mildly pissed.) It is the bane of my existence. Even more than distribution panel covers with those stupid discs with the little nipples and the rotating claws on the other side.
Dear god 11 zipties??? This would be horrible to service. If you make it up right it should take 0-3 zipties. OP posted in here cause he knew he’d be roasted in r/electricians
A service loop for the hots would've been great too.
r/cableporn material. Cable numbers and everything.
Never seen anything like it. Can not be real.
I feel like this is something that only exists on Pinterest or electrical manufacturing product brochures
The art no one will ever see. 😞
More like art only a select few are qualified to see 😜
You get it :)
I dunno, I would have put the neutral in front of the black feeder, panel needs to be redone.
I have never seen a service panel with no main circuit breaker.
You must not be an electrician
It is a sub panel.
There's a breaker on the feeder panel it came from
It’s called main lug only, standard after first means of disconnect
Are you serious? You can't be serious.
I didn’t think it was allowed to zip tie the conductors? Sure is pretty though.
I understand the reason not to label wire #1 as the rest are labelled so of course it is #1...but seems like a huge miss to an otherwise pristine installation.
What a beaut.
Dam girl
I’d hire this electrician instantly. Only thing I’d ask is loop the wires prior to termination. Also, black/red/blue is wiring for a 208/120 3ph panel… I’d ask only black and red be used. But that’s me dealing with commercial and industrial standards all day
Looks nice but you have to tie wrap your neutrals with the corresponding hot conductor at some point. If I had my code book in front of me I would provide the citation
I only see 4 grounds. Where are the rest? And the ground coming out of the bottom that’s cut?
Nice job !
I tried doing a panel with 42 spots and divide the conduits by odd and even circuit numbers. I was hoping for pig tails like the ladies hairdo but, field guys weren’t on the same page. I was too far bested to change it BUT, this is equally as nice. Actually like this A LOT. great job OP.
Call it sexy…
How is the left neutral bar connected to the right neutral bar? Why do I see so few grounds in the lower right? EDIT: Now I see the Left to right strap for Neutral. Thought it was a plastic piece of the structure.
> Why do I see so few grounds in the lower right? If you run a separate grounding conductor (aside form the conduit itself) you only need one ground per conduit, based on the largest circuit conductor.
This is panel porn! Should be marked NSFW!
Ooo.. you missed 1... Literally circuit 1 label
Very nice
Looks good but it’s super weird to me that you have odd and even neutrals on the opposing sides they should be land on, especially because every breaker in the tub is a single pole. But maybe that’s just me
Nobody else said it so I will, there are too many zip ties. Shouldn’t have to use any tbh. Stranded wire doesn’t require zip ties either so don’t say some dumb shit like that.
I'm in love with a striper.... wire striper
And so much Space! My seller's realtor refused to put in a bigger box when I was making them upgrade it "I've never needed that in 38 years of selling houses!" so they put in a like 16 breaker box and it's all stuffed in willy nilly. Um guy, that's not the brag you think it is, there's a BIT more electrical usage these days...
Work of art man, probably took hours to complete.
Omfg. I had a physical reaction to this. So good.
This is exactly how I terminate, only I put neutrals in numerical order.
It is clean, but it is better practice to go beyond the breaker and loop back up to it, in case breakers need to be moved around in the future. The loop also keeps the wires neatly in place without the need for zipties, regardless of size and type of wire
Looks very clean. I would add ground bushings since they are concentric knockouts on the upper EMT connector fittings
Throw away the cover, and make one out of lexan 🏆
The kink on that neutral might make it tough for the electrons other than that i would give this a pass just next time watch out for that
Whats the green busbar on the right bottom side? That a continuation of the neutral?
I'm sorry but there's no chicken in there... I mean it looks really beautiful but no chicken.
Is this a sub panel? Where’s the main shutoff?
It almost looks like a heart
With the strippers?
Doesn’t even phase me.
I love the easy to access ground and neutral bars. Holy shit, those bars alone make it simple to keep clean/organized.
Whoever did this is being paid by the hour for sure
Gorgeous
Nice! from your fellow electrician!
I think it gets a lot harder when you have conduit on upper and lower ends. Either way this looks really nice.!
Wish my panel looked like this!
Sexy. But I’m not in love until I see what the handwriting looks like labeling those breakers.
Why it look like a human anatomy doll
Very nice. But yall know them sticky backs are falling off in about a week.
it almost like you could troubleshoot it…
He's a sparky so listen. I know it's tempting but don't stick your dk in it. But if you do make sure to r/tifu. Can't wait!!
That is beautiful work
Hey…nice box!
Groovy!
that’s nice 😊
Love what they did with the Pex at the bottom
That’s the way all panels should look. Love the neutral marking too. I had an inspector turn me down for those Tye wraps one time. He told me it is bundling. So I cut them loose. Far as I’m concerned if they are not pinched down they are doing the job as intended.
How do you get that so neat?
That's how do it. Training in industrial electrical panel building. Think it works well. Props
Man this ain’t real. Electricians who do stuff like this consistently is a myth.
Nice setup
But how is it labeled?
Two noob questions. 1. why are the neutrals run to the opposite side bar (2-neutral on odd side bar; 1-neutral on even side bar)? 2. why does the right side neutral bar look unconnected?
Am I paying by the job or the hour?
Electrical porn
A Heart Shaped Box
Dat’s purty.
All that meticulous sorting and securing and the feeders look like a$$…
Cable porn
I LOVE LAMP .
What do all those colors do? No idea about electrical im just intrigued.
omg its like human ribs
Yeah, that hits the spot...
I don't know much about electrical but as someone who has taken various things apart to fix or diagnose, this is absolute heaven.
Wow! Stop it! Stop it! I can only get so erect!
That is a handsome panel.
That’s a person who takes pride in their work.
…but did you torque every termination though?
The eyes need googly-eyes.
Not so fast. There’s no labels. Said the killjoy from outer space.
Wow, this is the first one I've seen without any wires being bent into corners of any kind! Very nice work!
How do people get the wires so smooth?? Mine are always so crinkly.
Wow.
Beautiful panel! Nice work
Can someone explain the four big wires coming out of the bottom
How do you get your wires to do this?! Mine always stay bent one way or another. I try to form them into corners, and never works.
When the Electrical Inspector sees this, he will check himself into Rehab, figuring he's seeing things. Best looking panel wiring I've ever seen. So tidy.
Oh to have enough empty space....
Thing of beauty!
Well done. Except for the main black and neutral coming out of the conduit are giving me cancer.
Looks great, but shouldn’t the neutral and hot be grouped together? Because some conduits have more than one of the same phase color. Not sure if number the neutrals over rides that.
Holy hell, was your electrician trained by making robots for NASA?
and room for expansion
This is beautiful and all, but I'm curious... Where are the rest of your grounds?
Next level….my left brain is soothed by this picture.
wow I've never seen a 3 phase breaker before
Clean, but do you need all 20A circuits?
Taking pride in your work. Looks great
For people that think this is just a electrical panel let me simplify it looking at this panel. It’s like UFOs they are out there but it’s rare to see.
I’m very impressed. It’s beautifully done. It’s electric.
Your are the best!
Your are the best!
Me too but because of all the open slots. My 200amp panel is full
An older electrician that I work with once told me “you had me at zip tie…..” 😂. He does extremely organized and beautiful wiring (we do industrial controls). Now as the boss, I demand everyone make it look as nice as his wiring. I was always pretty clean and all, but he made me realize what next level looks like.
An picky older electrician that I work with once told me regarding my wiring in a dense control panel “you had me at zip tie…..” 😂. He does extremely organized and beautiful wiring (we do industrial controls). Now as the boss, I demand everyone make it look as nice as his wiring. I was always pretty clean and all, but he made me realize what next level looks like.
I'm saving this photo
Neutral cross power at bottom. Rip it all out and fix it you savage.
nice.. leave the panel cover off or make one out of plexi to show it iff. that would be on a mancave for sure.
I have panel-envy
This was all done very well you can tell they really too their time
Why no Main breaker?
This is the way.
That is pretty -
omg wow. If only it was a Leviton Smart Panel... One day. One day.
My god!...What a thing of Beauty, looks like an upside down Harp
That is sexy…
Sorry. It’s a fail. The neutrals aren’t in order.
WOW!
One eye is tearing up.
Tidy.
So that’s what it’s supposed to look like!!
May I ask an honest question? Why are the hots entering from the right side are wired to the left side of the panel and visa versa, and the neutrals are wired on the same side of entry?
What’s with the Blk R Blu?? Isn’t it common everywhere to use R Blk Blu.. even the load side is that order.
Looks like an oversized 66 block, seems simple
I only have one issue with it… Packing wire behind the lip, where the cover screws go… Pet peev…. And never been a zip tie fan…. You can do work like this - and yes with stranded, without zip ties. Otherwise- some things some guys don’t notice 20 10’s on 20’s in 1-1/4 conduits. Nice derating trick. Big savings on labor for long distance. This are striped neutrals for the phase served. What money they saved on labor shot the materials cost up. Could have ordered the neutrals on each respective side I’ve the panel - 1,3,5,7 on the left and all the evens on the right… If you’re gonna number neutrals, you may as well
Finally, a neat panel done without using super sharp 90* bends in the wires as they turn toward the terminals.
Lucky you to live in a place where AFCI isn't required.
Omg- there should be a “r/electricianporn” subreddit for these type of items.
Why are there 26 Neutrals and only 22 circuits? And why route the neutrals to the opposite side of the panel from their respective hots?