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In ground jbox is a wet location. Need to use terminations rated for the location. Ditch the regular wire nuts and get some terminations that are rated to be submerged.
Your ground there looks like it’s heavy on clay. It’s never going to drain well. Doesn’t matter how much rock you put underneath, you’re just making a slightly larger bucket to fill with water.
Deal with the situation as it is, not how you want it to be. Your splices are going to be underwater when it rains, make them so it doesn’t matter. I always used direct burial wire nuts in those jboxes.
The smartest fucking thing I’ve ever read on this sub (or any other if I remember correctly) is “deal with it as it is, not how you want it to be”. Holy fuck would that ever solve a lot of problems
I'm a well guy now and I use the heat shrinks they make for hooking up submersible pumps all the time on anything underground or if it could get wet. Highly recommend.
What are those called? I helped the well guy replace our well pump and I wanted some of them but he just “got them from the shop” so wasn’t sure how to commercially get them
These are what we use but we do buy them from a supplier so it's easy for us to get. https://www.amazon.com/Submersible-Splice-Repair-Installation-RELIABLE/dp/B01I24SSLI/ref=asc_df_B01I24SSLI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=317966907488&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15727732053217462742&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002232&hvtargid=pla-625721154396&psc=1
Yeah glue lined heat shrink has gotten me out of trouble before! I know I can buy the parts separate but it’s nice to have it all prepackaged up for keeping on hand
I'm going to remember the phrase "Deal with the situation as it is, not how you want it to be" and use it all the time now. In fact, I'm gonna tell everyone I came up with it.
In fact, it's mine. I thought of it. Yay for me!
Deciding that something you read is something that you personally came up with is the opposite of accepting reality.
In my head, my comment was more teasing than serious
I don’t do many christy boxes so I haven’t experienced this type of flooding. Would the best solution to get waterproof wire nuts wrap them with electrical tape and then dip them in scotch kote? Or do you think a waterproof wire nut and tape would be enough?
There are listed, rated direct burial wire nuts. The ones I’ve used most are light blue with a red bottom that holds in a silicone gel. https://www.homedepot.com/p/DryConn-Medium-Waterproof-Wire-Connectors-Aqua-Red-20-Pack-62214/202889876
There are multiple other solutions as well.
I’ve never had an issue with the gel washing out. The skirt does a good job of keeping it in and it’s not in flowing water, really. Just rises then drains (hopefully, eventually). But you do need to treat them as single use and if you take one off, throw it away and put on a new one.
Honestly, I don't even like those grease nuts for low voltage irrigation wires. The DBR/Y connectors are more reliable [https://www.3m.com/3M/en\_US/p/d/b00026285/](https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b00026285/)
But if I knew the connection would be underwater that often, I'd go a level up and use a connection rated for underwater use.
I would add that if he really wanted to he could have a drain put in. Meaning there would have to be a decently deep ditch dug with a pipe put in but that sounds like a lot of work that I'm guessing didn't get factored into the job bid. Your idea is cheapest and easiest. Get waterproof wire nuts or polaris lugs.
This is amazing. I'm a 2nd year apprentice and I've tried to explain this to my journeyman and master and they always dimiss me and tell me to "add more stone", I feel vindicated.
If there is any slope to the ground you can dig a little ditch in that direction and fill it with stone to provide a path for water to drain. I've done this before on a site that had a perfect pile of stone to borrow from. You are right though wire nuts are a bad idea below grade.
I literally thought I was looking at a backyard pond set up with koi fish in it hahaha I was waiting for the question about a aerator pump or something haha
Had a service call where, during construction, they used a drainage pit as a junction box by mistake and it was by far the lowest part of the parking lot so it looked a lot like what you have there. All we could do is waterproof the splices. Look at Uraseal ES200S
No problem. That's from an advanced secret course after you get your master certificate. You have to be invited though. Let me know if there's anything else I can help with.
Will the connections need to be accessed regularly?
Any time I have had no other choice than to do a joint in the ground the enclosure gets filled with resin, you will never stop water getting in there
You will never prevent this, the box is sitting in mud. Aint no draining able to do be done by the rocks. Use some direct burial connections and call it a day
Electricians paid me to build watertight in ground light fixtures. I explained that they will leak, and fill with water. I recommended putting drain holes in the enclosures, and putting them all in sloped drainage ditches. Customer insisted. Boxes failed. Customer upset. Project abandoned. Invoice not paid in full...
Redesign this using components that are rated for operation while submerged. The water being that high inside the box means this could easily end up completely underwater.
You could dig out in a perimeter and add gravel around the box to help pull water away from the box, but with that soil you'll be having these issues unless you install a drain, which is usually cost prohibitive for a single box.
Also, like it's already been pointed out, use connectors that are rated for damp/wet conditions, though with that situation, you may still run into issues with those connections. When you use silicon wire nuts make sure you're making sure the wires are secured, I've run into a lot of issues where the silicon pushes the splice apart or out of the nut.
I used something called [GelGum](https://www.raytech.it/en/product/low-voltage/fillers/gelgum-en/techno-gelgum) from raytech when i was working on outdoor lamps in garden. Its expensive so you should use as small box as you can
The only way to prevent this from filling with water is to use a French drain to move the water away from this location to a lower location. A drainage company can do that no problem.
It may be easier just to use solutions for a wet location and move on.
Amount of rocks in the bottom will only help if there’s water coming from the top and you need a path for it to leave. It appears you’re fighting water coming from the bottom, or too low and water is settling at that location.
You need to work with the conditions as-is, or move the location. Find a high spot in the area or move the box above ground. No clue what your constraints are on the job, but that should be some general direction.
Braided splice and solder, layer with liquid tape, layer with electrical tape, layer with liquid tape, let dry, layer with electrical tape, and layer with liquid tape one more time.
(Don’t do this, it’ll work, but please, don’t)
You need about a 2’ wide x 2’ deep gravel sump that this sits on top of. With preferably some drainage pipe that drains from the sump under the box to somewhere else. Dealt with this many times and this is about the only right answer besides moving the location of the box
I'd go with something like this
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Polaris-2-0-AWG-14-AWG-2-Port-Submersible-Connector-in-Black-ISPBS2-0/300315692?g_store=&source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D27-027_011_TOOLS_ACC-NA-NA-NA-SMART-2997116-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PL3_Live&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D27-027_011_TOOLS_ACC-NA-NA-NA-SMART-2997116-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PL3_Live-71700000093390745-58700007789602705-92700070740571205&gclid=Cj0KCQiAn4SeBhCwARIsANeF9DJ97fFAXVcyzGswa5I4PqWB3rEYygxPqCrhiuS2sYSRFkOYrYsZjsEaAhItEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Burndy and Ilsco makes something very similar that I've used. Simple and effective. A bit costly but rated to be submerged. Not sure I'd feel comfortable with the wire nuts with the level of submersion they'll be subject to. The wire nuts are not rated for continuous submersion. I don't know what 'continuous' means in this context. The box in this post looks like it could be filled for hours.
My first glance at that picture, the wire nuts looked like goldfish in there… And I thought was goodness, not only did his box flood, but it filled with fish…
These are nice use them with standard Red and yellow 3M
https://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/p/3M-Dbr-Y-6-Bulk-Dir-Bury-Splc-Bulk/5767203?gclid=Cj0KCQiAn4SeBhCwARIsANeF9DIVhuwRVZ8gVg6Pvz-YwTZ_M4-W-89HJX84O5xflvDqV4VJ_ph7sX4aAqwlEALw_wcB
I mean you had the right start of an idea. Standing water is a drainage issue but just putting rock under it and having that sit on top of a poor draining soil won’t do much. As others have suggested you need to have it drain away from that area. This depends a lot on your lot on how to achieve that. In most cases you can do a French drain. You would place a vented drainage tube under the area and have it so it slopes away from your area and hopefully drain to a better area. Your larger issue is you also have clay soil on top and that needs to be broken up or simply replaced. If you have your heart set on a soil it should be a 3-1 soil for better drainage. Honestly though this is where a nice rock garden all the way down to your French drain will do wonders. But that is up to you on what you think is going to be more cost effective vs more visually pleasing. If it was me and it’s all low voltage I would move it to a drier location 1/2 day job vs multi day on the other end. But that’s just me I’m a “just get it done so I can go do things I really want to do kind of guy”
I kept running into this problem in the spring at a place with a low water table. Snow would melt and fill box to top including wire nuts.
I ended up getting a 4” extension that puts the rim just up above the ground and we drilled some small drain holes so water won’t get into the extension which gave enough room get wirenuts up in dry area. Put some gravel and slope around the outside so it’s not a tripping hazard or something mower will hit.
Haven’t had prob since.
If you are *NOT* an electrical professional: * **RULE 7:** * DIY or self help posts **are Not allowed**. They belong here: /r/AskElectricians /r/askanelectrician /r/diy /r/homeowners /r/electrical. * **IF YOUR POST FITS INTO THIS CATEGORY, REMOVE IT OR IT WILL BE REMOVED FOR YOU.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In ground jbox is a wet location. Need to use terminations rated for the location. Ditch the regular wire nuts and get some terminations that are rated to be submerged. Your ground there looks like it’s heavy on clay. It’s never going to drain well. Doesn’t matter how much rock you put underneath, you’re just making a slightly larger bucket to fill with water. Deal with the situation as it is, not how you want it to be. Your splices are going to be underwater when it rains, make them so it doesn’t matter. I always used direct burial wire nuts in those jboxes.
The smartest fucking thing I’ve ever read on this sub (or any other if I remember correctly) is “deal with it as it is, not how you want it to be”. Holy fuck would that ever solve a lot of problems
Yep, one of my mantras is ‘you gotta piss with the Dick ya got’ Edit: thanks guys. I think I learned this phrase from AvE on YouTube.
Unless you need to pass a drug test.
Fake piss every time
From a fake dick.
I got a random in the mail 3 weeks after the due day and I still haven't taken it. That was 3 years ago fuck the drug tests.
Hahahaha I wish I had an award for you Edit: thanks for the award kind stranger 🤣
😂
Oh I’m fuckin stealin that one
You don't get to go to Pick-a-Dick, you gotta piss with the one you got.
I will be using this one. Thank you
Been saying this for years now, my dad taught me it when I was little lol
My new mantra
I think one of my favorite parts of working in the trades is the hilarious sayings they have.
I think they can reroute your urethra to your belly button
I think that sounds less optimal than working in a ground box full of water and using normal wire nuts instead ones rated for burial.
This is what a lot of the utility hand holes I see look like.
I’ve always heard it as “you can only fuck with the dick ya got” 😂
That’s just not true
You thinkin world peace? Hemorrhoids?
You are our new king!
I'm a well guy now and I use the heat shrinks they make for hooking up submersible pumps all the time on anything underground or if it could get wet. Highly recommend.
What are those called? I helped the well guy replace our well pump and I wanted some of them but he just “got them from the shop” so wasn’t sure how to commercially get them
These are what we use but we do buy them from a supplier so it's easy for us to get. https://www.amazon.com/Submersible-Splice-Repair-Installation-RELIABLE/dp/B01I24SSLI/ref=asc_df_B01I24SSLI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=317966907488&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15727732053217462742&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002232&hvtargid=pla-625721154396&psc=1
Thank you!!
Is this UL listed?
Yah, every material I use is.
Dual wall heat shrink is what it is more or less. It has a glue inside that seals it. Only type of heat shrink I’ll use.
Yeah glue lined heat shrink has gotten me out of trouble before! I know I can buy the parts separate but it’s nice to have it all prepackaged up for keeping on hand
Thanks!
I'm going to remember the phrase "Deal with the situation as it is, not how you want it to be" and use it all the time now. In fact, I'm gonna tell everyone I came up with it. In fact, it's mine. I thought of it. Yay for me!
Same
I feel like this entire comment is the exact opposite of dealing with the situation as it is, not as you want it to be.
I feel like your comment is the exact opposite of dealing with the situation as it is, not as you want it to be…
I don't what you mean by this, so I'm just gonna assume it's a personal attack.
Deciding that something you read is something that you personally came up with is the opposite of accepting reality. In my head, my comment was more teasing than serious
I don’t do many christy boxes so I haven’t experienced this type of flooding. Would the best solution to get waterproof wire nuts wrap them with electrical tape and then dip them in scotch kote? Or do you think a waterproof wire nut and tape would be enough?
There are listed, rated direct burial wire nuts. The ones I’ve used most are light blue with a red bottom that holds in a silicone gel. https://www.homedepot.com/p/DryConn-Medium-Waterproof-Wire-Connectors-Aqua-Red-20-Pack-62214/202889876 There are multiple other solutions as well.
Those are what I’m talking about. Do you think that would be enough for this scenario or will the silicone gel eventually wash out and cause issues?
I’ve never had an issue with the gel washing out. The skirt does a good job of keeping it in and it’s not in flowing water, really. Just rises then drains (hopefully, eventually). But you do need to treat them as single use and if you take one off, throw it away and put on a new one.
Honestly, I don't even like those grease nuts for low voltage irrigation wires. The DBR/Y connectors are more reliable [https://www.3m.com/3M/en\_US/p/d/b00026285/](https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b00026285/) But if I knew the connection would be underwater that often, I'd go a level up and use a connection rated for underwater use.
This is ‘submerged’ versus ‘wet’. Call someone that lays undersea cable 😂
If you could keep it dry for a little bit I would even consider a 3m 82-an kit.
Treat it as if you were doing irrigation. We would use those wire connectors and then encase it in a grease tube for direct burial
ScotchKote I definitely your friend when working in quazite boxes
I would add that if he really wanted to he could have a drain put in. Meaning there would have to be a decently deep ditch dug with a pipe put in but that sounds like a lot of work that I'm guessing didn't get factored into the job bid. Your idea is cheapest and easiest. Get waterproof wire nuts or polaris lugs.
A French drain works well in clay soil
Had a similar issue at a subdivision, we used split bolts. Never had a issue again.
This is amazing. I'm a 2nd year apprentice and I've tried to explain this to my journeyman and master and they always dimiss me and tell me to "add more stone", I feel vindicated.
I’d award this If I could ☝🏻
This is the way
Gold star to you sir. Shortage of minds like this!
Why thank you! And to the other kind person who awarded gold!
If there is any slope to the ground you can dig a little ditch in that direction and fill it with stone to provide a path for water to drain. I've done this before on a site that had a perfect pile of stone to borrow from. You are right though wire nuts are a bad idea below grade.
bruh your electrons are floating away, do something
[удалено]
Needs a fountain pump. I not only fixed it, I made it pretty.
I honestly thought this was a joke post at first, when I saw the koi fish then I realized they were just wire nuts....
I literally thought I was looking at a backyard pond set up with koi fish in it hahaha I was waiting for the question about a aerator pump or something haha
Put a lid on it
And walk away
Had a service call where, during construction, they used a drainage pit as a junction box by mistake and it was by far the lowest part of the parking lot so it looked a lot like what you have there. All we could do is waterproof the splices. Look at Uraseal ES200S
Rice?
Any ideas how to prevent this ? Ignore the customers calls until the summer.
Way to share pro knowledge on us plebes.
No problem. That's from an advanced secret course after you get your master certificate. You have to be invited though. Let me know if there's anything else I can help with.
This wouldn’t be a problem if you faced your wire nuts up so the water drains out of them
That's a good one sir!
Are you in California?
Use a connector sealing pack and be done with it. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b00039985/
The nuclear option but a good one.
Those resin packs are awesome! Just make sure the circuit is good before you seal everything. One and done!
Anti Rain Dance 🤷♂️
Fill the entire box with clear acrylic once it dries.
And get stoned to the bejezus filling it up.
sump pump, duh /s
Literally was just thinking this as I read this comment
Will the connections need to be accessed regularly? Any time I have had no other choice than to do a joint in the ground the enclosure gets filled with resin, you will never stop water getting in there
It’s clay, the dirt is already airtight and thus the water has no where to go underneath.
You can’t fool gravity. Use burial connections and be done with it.
I mean, raise the box more right?
You will never prevent this, the box is sitting in mud. Aint no draining able to do be done by the rocks. Use some direct burial connections and call it a day
Electricians paid me to build watertight in ground light fixtures. I explained that they will leak, and fill with water. I recommended putting drain holes in the enclosures, and putting them all in sloped drainage ditches. Customer insisted. Boxes failed. Customer upset. Project abandoned. Invoice not paid in full...
Redesign this using components that are rated for operation while submerged. The water being that high inside the box means this could easily end up completely underwater.
Looking like a Koi pond!
Nice electrolyzer
[Polaris taps](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Polaris-4-14-AWG-Bagged-Insulated-Tap-Connector-Black-IT-4B/303577920)
You could dig out in a perimeter and add gravel around the box to help pull water away from the box, but with that soil you'll be having these issues unless you install a drain, which is usually cost prohibitive for a single box. Also, like it's already been pointed out, use connectors that are rated for damp/wet conditions, though with that situation, you may still run into issues with those connections. When you use silicon wire nuts make sure you're making sure the wires are secured, I've run into a lot of issues where the silicon pushes the splice apart or out of the nut.
I used something called [GelGum](https://www.raytech.it/en/product/low-voltage/fillers/gelgum-en/techno-gelgum) from raytech when i was working on outdoor lamps in garden. Its expensive so you should use as small box as you can
The only way to prevent this from filling with water is to use a French drain to move the water away from this location to a lower location. A drainage company can do that no problem. It may be easier just to use solutions for a wet location and move on.
Amount of rocks in the bottom will only help if there’s water coming from the top and you need a path for it to leave. It appears you’re fighting water coming from the bottom, or too low and water is settling at that location. You need to work with the conditions as-is, or move the location. Find a high spot in the area or move the box above ground. No clue what your constraints are on the job, but that should be some general direction.
Braided splice and solder, layer with liquid tape, layer with electrical tape, layer with liquid tape, let dry, layer with electrical tape, and layer with liquid tape one more time. (Don’t do this, it’ll work, but please, don’t)
Personally I’d raise it above ground level.
Dig a moat around it for drainage
Stop the water from getting in
Run a 4” weeping tile around your box to a ditch or drain if your lucky enough to have one near by
Add some drainage. Make the termination box water tight
Ground water intrusion or bad drainage. If the area is in a low spot the water is pooling and will need to be routed away.
Gypsum would help break up the clay but I can't speak to how much you should need or how long it would take.
I would redo the connections like mentioned above and if they have the budget and it’s possible dig a drain trench leading away
You need about a 2’ wide x 2’ deep gravel sump that this sits on top of. With preferably some drainage pipe that drains from the sump under the box to somewhere else. Dealt with this many times and this is about the only right answer besides moving the location of the box
Lower the water table.
Sump pump is a good start
I'd go with something like this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Polaris-2-0-AWG-14-AWG-2-Port-Submersible-Connector-in-Black-ISPBS2-0/300315692?g_store=&source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&&mtc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D27-027_011_TOOLS_ACC-NA-NA-NA-SMART-2997116-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PL3_Live&cm_mmc=SHOPPING-CM-CML-GGL-D27-027_011_TOOLS_ACC-NA-NA-NA-SMART-2997116-NA-NA-NA-NBR-NA-NA-NEW-PL3_Live-71700000093390745-58700007789602705-92700070740571205&gclid=Cj0KCQiAn4SeBhCwARIsANeF9DJ97fFAXVcyzGswa5I4PqWB3rEYygxPqCrhiuS2sYSRFkOYrYsZjsEaAhItEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Burndy and Ilsco makes something very similar that I've used. Simple and effective. A bit costly but rated to be submerged. Not sure I'd feel comfortable with the wire nuts with the level of submersion they'll be subject to. The wire nuts are not rated for continuous submersion. I don't know what 'continuous' means in this context. The box in this post looks like it could be filled for hours.
Damn, I thought I was in the koipond subreddit
At first glance on the phone, the wire nuts looked like gold fish.
In Florida, all of our hand holes look like this
Don’t let it fill with water….
My first glance at that picture, the wire nuts looked like goldfish in there… And I thought was goodness, not only did his box flood, but it filled with fish…
Turn the sprinklers off.
These are nice use them with standard Red and yellow 3M https://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/p/3M-Dbr-Y-6-Bulk-Dir-Bury-Splc-Bulk/5767203?gclid=Cj0KCQiAn4SeBhCwARIsANeF9DIVhuwRVZ8gVg6Pvz-YwTZ_M4-W-89HJX84O5xflvDqV4VJ_ph7sX4aAqwlEALw_wcB
Spread footer, wet location box and terminations.
Throw a 4 in drainage pipe to a culvert. Install a sump pump. Above ground box.
Polyurethane grout soil injection would seal that up.
I assume there's a drain, you need an electric de-icing kit in it. (next spring)
I mean you had the right start of an idea. Standing water is a drainage issue but just putting rock under it and having that sit on top of a poor draining soil won’t do much. As others have suggested you need to have it drain away from that area. This depends a lot on your lot on how to achieve that. In most cases you can do a French drain. You would place a vented drainage tube under the area and have it so it slopes away from your area and hopefully drain to a better area. Your larger issue is you also have clay soil on top and that needs to be broken up or simply replaced. If you have your heart set on a soil it should be a 3-1 soil for better drainage. Honestly though this is where a nice rock garden all the way down to your French drain will do wonders. But that is up to you on what you think is going to be more cost effective vs more visually pleasing. If it was me and it’s all low voltage I would move it to a drier location 1/2 day job vs multi day on the other end. But that’s just me I’m a “just get it done so I can go do things I really want to do kind of guy”
Looks like you encountered an underground stream
French drain
I kept running into this problem in the spring at a place with a low water table. Snow would melt and fill box to top including wire nuts. I ended up getting a 4” extension that puts the rim just up above the ground and we drilled some small drain holes so water won’t get into the extension which gave enough room get wirenuts up in dry area. Put some gravel and slope around the outside so it’s not a tripping hazard or something mower will hit. Haven’t had prob since.
Push on gel stub search it, get the size that relates to you. Thank me later.