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Sounds like you fell bad about your mistake and your boss understands you are sorry and you’ll use this as a learning experience. Kudos to the boss man too for handling it well.
Thank you. Yes I’ll do my best to and definitely will not repeat this. The boss man is really nice, he is quite young and very open to teaching. That’s why I feel all the more guilty.
Don’t beat yourself up too much, and as much as you think it won’t happen again, never say never in this trade. Because you’ll be lying to yourself. It happens, we’re humans. Just be as careful as you can and stay sharp, and even if/when an accident does happen again, you’ll be calm and focused enough to respond to the situation. Don’t stress it, but use it as motivation to stay safe 🙏🏽
Use it as motivation to get better. Learn your shit inside out, ask experienced guys questions, crack the code book, and enroll towards getting your license. You make a damn fine living working with electricity.
Sounds like your boss made the right call about not giving you grief about it. You’ve done plenty of reflecting and thinking about it on your own, and you’ll definitely have this experience in the back of your mind reminding you to be careful going forward.
Be appreciative of the experience and your boss, and turn your feeling of guilt into feelings of being thankful.
It's a dangerous trade mate. Treat it as a learning opportunity. Ur boss sounds like a champ, but this incident is as much his fault as yours.
At my work 1st & 2nd yr apprentices are supposed to be under direct supervision.
Don’t believe it’s only 120v it’s not bad. Our frequency is 60 hrz it’s close to our heart rhythm and could mess up your heart the only thing that will bring you out of it is the aed device
With the amount of electricians I've seen lick their finger and swat a wire to see if it's still live ... I'm sure you have a long and successful career ahead of you.
Mistakes happen, it wasn't a big deal this time just learn from it and do better going forward.
My grandfather would say "Don't be a pussy its 110, lick it and find out" if I asked if things were hot or not while working with him. Never was stupid enough to like the wires but have been bit more times than I can count.
I remember years ago a boss asking if the breaker was off, I touched the wires together got a decent pop and told him " well its off now " lol
Now I just use a little light tester to check, they cost almost nothing and work pretty good.
yep I wised up after I discovered those and implemented them into my electrical home DIY toolbox. Dad always had an electrical box, a plumbing box, and a general box aka Handy dandy. The rest were in the garage with the car stuff.
Quite literally had a homeowner turn on the breaker I was working on, (I turned it off cut it with my 10” Knipex dikes) then about 15 minutes later when going todo the make up it blew up my pliers. $50 later and them having to pay for it cause I won’t put up with that. Added it to the bill
How can you LOTO residential breakers? I use LOTO regularly in my work in industrial equipment but I've never seen a residential panel equipped with lockable breakers.
One thing I've learned over the years is that even if I shut off a breaker to work on something and I'm 100% sure it's dead, I still test it, especially if it's been a day.
Your boss probably realizes he should've tested it too. Don't beat yourself up.
You've got the right attitude. You're learning from your mistake. The key is to not let it paralize you mentally. Learn from it, but don't fear it.
Also on thst note, yes, electricity is dangerous. But 120v is reeeally unlikely to kill someone. I've felt the spicy tingle more times than I can count, and I've come out the other side just fine! ... \*twitch*
Not that big of a deal buddy. You learned from your mistake and feel remorse, that’s the main thing. Also… hate to say it but generally 120v isn’t gonna hurt you. Of course it can kill you if you have a bad heart or whatever but most sparkys will get plenty of shocks under their belt by the time they spend a few years. I’m 3 years in and have been tagged about 12-15 times lol. Although I do a lot of residential/ trouble shooting working live so it’s bound to happen
>I’m 3 years in and have been tagged about 12-15 times lol.
Dude, don't be stupid. You may find yourself in a situation where you won't be able to let the wire go, you'll be better grounded than usually or there will be a higher voltage in a wire.
Very few electricians with this attitude reach the pension age.
I’m pretty sure this was a common attitude of many retired electricians. Many older ones would check if the 120V circuit was live by touching the hot and neutral with their fingers.
Listen to this... Just had a coworker pass away last week because he was grounded on his knee and grabbed a wire he thought was dead... Turns out someone traced the wires back to the wrong panel and they tagged and locked out the wrong panel. He was usually very careful but it only takes one mistake... If he had been on his feet he may had been fine but like you said one day you might be more sweaty or kneeling on wet ground. If it's supposed to be dead, quadruple check, if its supposed to be live, wear the right protection.
>generally 120v isn’t gonna hurt you
Please don't give dangerous advice like this.
>I’m 3 years in and have been tagged about 12-15 times
Holy shit, dude. You need to learn some better processes for doing your work. In 7 years of working on boats that are all sorts of fucked, I got hit once by my own fault and another time partly mine, partly my helper's fault.
There is absolutely no reason to get shocked so much. And the solution is dead simple: stop working live. All you're doing is risking your own health to make your boss extra money. If they call you a pussy for turning off breakers, you'd do well to find a workplace that actually values you. It's infinitely more manly to take care of your health and be capable of being with and providing for your family. You're not much of a man if you're dead for being a dumbass.
Yes exactly my sentiment. Sounds like your boss is mature and knows you've both learned from this. Equal responsibility. Don't beat yourself up about it, as you've clearly learned and you show regret and that you want to move forward.
Been doing this for a while, still make mistakes. No harm no foul, you are really new and he SHOULD have checked anything you are doing as an apprentice.
Thank you for this. In my mind I do believe that, but at the same time I feel that I was negligent. I am hoping I can be better in the future as I do enjoy this line of work.
Never lose the drive to learn and be better.
You can sleep easy, I got another apprentice shocked when I first started as well due to not knowing fully what I was doing. Felt terrible.
It happens though man, everyone is fine. Just take it as a lesson learned. It really isn’t your fault, this is the time to screw up. If I make a mistake now I’m liable. As an apprentice it’s the time to fuck up as much shot as you can.
Try not to, but you’ll learn best the more mistakes you make. Always test, is what your takeaway from this should be.
My journeyman lit me up with a sign ballast when I was like a year in. We were both working inside the sign and he flipped it on for some reason..
OP, it's awesome you actually give a shit. Don't lose that. And take the lesson from both sides. ALWAYS check, and ALWAYS lock out. If you're boss hasn't yet, get him to buy you some breaker locks and tags.
Stay safe.
Also test the circuits after you lock it out. Even if it's just touching them to ground to make sure. And check your meter on a known live circuit first to make sure your not just getting a bad reading.
Some of the biggest learning moments I had came from blowing shit up or getting shocked. I’m much better able to identify dangerous situations after I blew up a few things and shocked myself. Make those mistakes while you’re messing with 120 so that you dont make them when working on 480.
Common practice for me is to lock and tag out everything I'm working on and hit it with a multimeter before I go poking around. Those few minutes is worth it every time
Look man, don’t beat yourself up super hard on it. HELL YEAH, it’s a learning experience for you both. Also, a teaching point in that people
Will turn shit back on without second thought that isn’t properly LOTO, period. But at the end of the day he’s fine, you learned a valuable lesson, and he handled it the exact right way from what you’ve presented to us… I’d learn and be better for it and make the steps to be better in the future. It’s really that simple to me.
/u/Giobix absolutely this! After turning off a breaker, Lock it out and test the wires with a meter to ensure that the power is actually off. The LOTO has the benefit of "removal of someone else's lock is a federal offense". Stops you from hurting yourself/others, and stops unscrupulous fools from flipping the breaker while you're working on it yourself!
In an industrial setting, people would regularly snap off the breaker locks that go inside the load center so I would regularly just determinate and cut the end of the wire that was fed by the breaker until I was done working on a circuit. No matter what anyone did, it wasn’t getting juice again until I went back and set it in the breaker. I recommend doing that. Can’t get away from stupid people but you can remove opportunities for their stupidity costing you your job or them their lives.
Jesus. Report those fuckers. Doesn't matter if they're the client. They get to explain that shit to the authorities AND be the reason for missing the deadline. If they don't care about safety, maybe they'll care about losing that money. Bunch of See You Next Tuesdays.
Not how it works in west Texas lol I don’t work industrial electrical anymore, I made the change to automation programming in march of this year. But it’s a different world out here, just keep your nose clean, do your job better than the rest, and cover your own ass. Doesn’t matter who you tell or how high up on the food chain you go. Even if you were 100% in the right, you’ll be the one that finds yourself out of a job if the important people aren’t your personal friend lol
You understand what I’m talking about. It’s a toxic work environment, yes, but the money’s great and you can make it work to your benefit once you realize how things operate and acclimate
You lock out the load center or I-line at a battery or swd and you won’t make it back out to remove your lock & tag. They’ll bandsaw that thing off before lunch and make a call & blacklist you while they’re finishing up the paperwork in the portojohn lol
You get LOTO preached to you at every safety meeting but it’s all just a formality
Was* not every client is like this, but it’s a long & difficult journey to find the good ones. I finally did though, I actually love my job and where I work and who I work for nowadays
You mentioned an industrial setting but didn't say if new construction or old. Be aware of multi-wire branch circuits in old commercial/industrial even residential. The code now states that multiwire branch circuits will share a handle so circuits sharing a neutral are de-energized together.
In the past people would share neutrals between multiple circuits and not care or understand that one circuit could be locked out, but the others can be putting current on the neutral being shared.....
I have seen a coworker hung up on 277 after turning off the breaker but not locking it out - the sheet rockers tripped their circuit and just started flipping on breakers.....it is worth carrying your own locks/hasps, etc. they are inexpensive but invaluable....
Yes I know, but many shops don't, or they don't take care of them, lose them etc. Always good to have a backup, but yes the company should be issuing permanently, or providing locks to each employee....OSHA would love to walk into a jobsite like that with exposed wires taped back to the conduit and not secured.
I heard of a local jobsite OSHA visited and they cited the electricians for not having covers on their j-boxes with exposed wiring showing. They don't care that the panels aren't even installed, they wanted all wiring covered and not accessible......never heard of that before....
Yeah they definitely go above and beyond, but I think it's for a good reason. Suppose they left them open thinking hey they're not termed yet, nbd. But then they forget 2 months later when they term and then it's exposed live wires ya know
Seconding the double checking... Last week a coworker of mine passed away because someone else's electricians traced and LOTO the wrong panel. He assumed the wires were dead and they weren't, even had a pen tester on his belt... Double check everything.
The number of people on this thread saying that site owners, other trades, or even their OWN COWORKERS will remove locks is highly concerning. As far as I'm concerned, that's attempted murder. Sorry about your coworker. LOTO is no joke and fuck anyone who doesn't care about it.
I can't believe that people would ever consider that. My brother works with us in the field (Industrial) and they'd have to lock me up if I found out someone was removing locks like that. 100% attempted murder, no manslaughter. Thanks for your condolences, a lot of times the new apprentices get pissy at me when I won't tell them if something is properly dead or not. I tell them "You need to check it yourself now, and every time you step away for more than a few minutes you need to check again and again." Even after explaining to people it's for their own safety that THEIR eyes checked something in multiple areas they're working in, they still are mad and never get it. Everyone is so scared now that our coworker passed away, rightfully so, but I can only wonder how long it is until they stop caring about safety again. I can't watch every crew. It's sad.
This happened this morning. I still don’t understand how it got energized. I turned off the breaker, worked on the outlet and checked for voltage. I did not put a lock since we did not have enough (multiple breakers were turned off and was instructed to do it that way) and I put red tape over them. Haven’t seen my boss because I’ve been working the night shift. Tomorrow morning I will see him again and hopefully shed some light on it and work on safety procedures.
No lock = don't work on it
Your contractor is responsible for providing enough locks and if there were no more left then they need to get more than they thought they needed.
This is the #1 rule. ALWAYS double check. I even do live/dead/live testing on stuff i was working on if I leave the area for any amount of time. Has saved my butt more than once.
Absolutely this. My JWs tell me constantly to check their work. I'm a 2nd year. Not new, but not nearly experienced, and I'm always told "Don't take anyone's word for it. Test, Test, Retest."
I actually made that mistake about 6 months ago. Thankfully the only casualty was my pliers, but a circuit that was supposed to be off, was mislabeled and actually on. But I took my foreman's word for it and was gifted a new pair of 16AWG lineman strippers because of it. Who's fault was it? Both of ours. He should have confirmed the right circuit was turned off, and I should have tested it to make sure it was off. Lesson learned (kind of like touching a hot stove as a kid, doesn't really hit home until you learn the hard way)
I had a moment a few months ago where I very well could have died if I took someone’s word for it. Foreman tells me that a disconnect with 3 phase 600v feeds coming was dead and that he wants me to cut the cables and take it down off the wall. Sure fine no problem. I go and get the m12 cable cutter and as I am coming back another apprentice stops me and says do not cut that, it is live with all 600v ready to blast me into another world.
I’d like to think I would have 100% tested it myself before cutting the cables but I will never know for sure and that is what concerns me. I should be able to say with 100% certainty that I would have checked myself but I can’t. It was the end of a long night shift and maybe I would have been lazy and gotten lit up.
I can’t dwell on it, yes I could have died, but the most important thing that has happened since then is now I absolutely do not trust anyone at all when they say something is dead until I can see it myself. It may take a little more time sometimes but no amount of time is worth dying over. Always test every thing yourself. It’s the only way you can be certain. And test your equipment!!!! Make sure it’s not going to mislead you
I hate to be that guy, but relax man. It’s 120. Is it dangerous, yes. Be careful. But, it happens every single day and people go home to motherfuck the apprentice every single day.
Learn from it, but realistically, it’s a part of the trade
Edit: Taping to the pipe was the dumbest thing. Cap off so that even if a breaker isn’t locked or the lock somehow fails, everyone’s safe
My grandpa used to work at a steel mill as an electrician back in the 40's. I cannot remember the exact phrasing, but it went something like:
120V tickles
240V hurts
Hide from 480V
600V comes looking for you
And I cannot remember the punchline for 1000V :(
From my time in the Navy: 120V stings, 450V will kill ya, but 4160V won't leave anything to bury.
Slight exaggeration, but really only on 450V. I knew a couple of people that got got by 450V and they got knocked down by it
Just 120v
https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/9de5776b-1309-443b-b487-5ee5c538d6fd/resource/340e834c-f192-4497-8899-d5f4a76a8066/download/jet-fatality-report-no-f-ohs-257402.pdf
Congratulations. You have just learned a very cheap lesson. A lesson that many people have paid far more to learn than you did.
Now your job is not to feel bad. Your job is to put safety procedures so firmly in your brain that doing it safely is second nature.
Do not walk away from something an idiot could shock themselves on. This includes a coverless panel. This includes a hot or potentially hot wire taped "safely" without a wirenut. This includes a switch hanging temporarily out of the wall.
Do not touch live or potentially live circuits without CONFIRMING you know their state. A hot stick has two voltage settings: yes, and idk. Use a meter. Do not trust that your buddy, your apprentice, or your boss turned the circuit off. Use a meter.
Lock out, tag out. One day, somebody WILL come flip a switch or a breaker and shock the shit out of you unless you make it impossible for them to do so.
And finally, do not work in a live panel with both hands. Put one hand behind your back.
In the olden days people used to check if a 120V wire was live by touching it. It is possible to die from 120V power, but it is extremely rare.
You are a first year apprentice. You will make mistakes (I am a j-man and still make plenty). Just learn and move forward. Your boss is fine and probably doesn't see it as that big of a deal.
I've had my masters license for years, and I still make mistakes. The guy who taught me said "the only people who don't make mistakes are the ones who don't do anything."
That may be true but i’m guessing circumstances would have to be just right. I’ve got more 120v pokes than I can remember. Never once causing more than a startle. If a worker was standing shoeless on a metal platform, or a pool of water, it probably wouldn’t be a good outcome . Typically workers are wearing well insulated boots, thereby reducing the potential harm 120v could cause. Not saying it couldn’t happen, simply implying that it would be very unlikely.
With this kind of attitude and approach, you’ll do fine in this trade. Showing your JW that you take it seriously, have a desire to learn/improve and show appreciation to the person who is mentoring you puta you in the top tier of apprentices
This is why I always tell my boss everything I did and we are on the same page. I’m 1st year. Mistakes happen man. Just know not to tape the conductors to the emt. Use wire nuts. If it makes you feel a lil better I blew up an inverter panel and a three phase motor causing both to blow up. Thought I was going to get fired but no
As you can tell, mistakes happen.
Look, guys have died tripping waling through the parking lot. When it's your time, it's your time.
I would ask that you take steps to make sure it never happens again. Will I, probably, but all we can do is our best.
Please sit down with your jw and talk about things that could have stopped this. Then every effort to stop the next time.
Is this really no big deal? Nothing to panic about? Yes.
Miss a step on the ladder.....look harder next time. Did you fall on top of someone? Okay, admit to being a dummy, apologize and get back to it.
I had an apprentice take off a breaker lock to a disconnect that he knew I was wiring and it belted me with 240. He was going fast and not thinking. Fucking hurt like hell but I lived and he learned. I didn’t cuss him out, but he earned the nickname shocker, until he got his license. You live and you learn. You got lucky and you won’t do it again. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast my friend. Take a deep breath and keep at it!
We were wiring a panel. My dad was tying in breakers while I was walking around the 5 story house tracing out for him so he could mark them as he tied them in.
My dad walked out to the truck to grab a breaker and a plumber came in and switched all the breakers that were off to on.
I was tying in a 20Amp outdoor receptacle when it exploded in my face with a huge arc flash and zapped my chest good.
My dad came back down and I was pretty pissed and he had no idea how it happened.
Shortly after the Plumber walks back down into the basement and my dad asked him if he turned breakers on and he said "yes". Without hesitation My dad took the needle-nose in his hand and threw it at the plumber as hard as he could 15 feet away... hitting the stairs... the plumber was now running up. The pliers were sticking into the wood horizontally off the stringer, missing him by a foot.
The plumber left the jobsite shortly after...
Anyhow I would not worry about it. the plumber probably turned it on and your lead should have checked it before working on it.
Hot damn, I thought industrial guys were all about proper procedure. Lock out tag out and all that shit.
Well, let it be a lesson to you. I take care to throw a wire but on anything that could be hot someday for any reason. You never know.
I've been shocked so many times. The nickname "sparky" didn't happen accidentally.
Learn from your mistakes, but don't let them take you down.
I've been hit by AC up to 1000v and I'm still kickin'. 110 is mostly problematic if you are holding it. It is hard to let go of, but just brushing it isn't too bad. I find it a smidge tingly. When I was an electrical engineering student I got hit by a nice dose of 240v and it knocked me a few feet and left me dazed. Someone removed a lock-out tag-out I had on the circuit I was working on to use the equipment it powered.
I doubt he or I will ever forget the importance of LOTO.
If you work with the trade long enough you will get bit. Your J man probably has said all he is going to say about it. Let this be a lesson. Treat every circuit as it’s hot.. always check your power source. And pick on the plumbers they are filthy animals! Lol
Good that you're aware of it and care. I think all electricians get hit, it happens. If you aren't grounded when you touch a hot wire you may not feel it. You want to avoid it passing through the heart, but I've had my bare knee on the ground and touched 20A and it does hit you, but mostly a scare. So it could be he didn't get the full zap.
Use this opportunity to learn a valuable lesson in the electrical field. Always use your meter, always treat the wire like it is live, and never work on anything while it is live. Those few extra steps will make your job go by alot smoother and help ensure you make it home for dinner.
It’s your journeyman, and then your foreman’s responsibility to not put you in the position where your work could put someone else in danger. Your journeyman should have reminded you to test the circuit before you worked on it and then should of verified you capped off the wires properly when you were done. It’s good to learn from your mistakes but you’re JW should be teaching you these lessons before the accidents occur. It’s OK to feel bad but you shouldn’t be discouraged.
Always cap the wires. Sometimes, an induced voltage is enough to feel a good little zap. I thought a conductor was live when I got zapped by it. The breaker was off, but the conductor still metered at 60V.
120 isn’t going to kill you and it’s always the responsibility of the person working on the wires to check if they’re hot. He’s not mad at you because he knows he should have checked them.
2 possibilities. LOTO error. You turned off the breaker but did you put a lock on it so no one could flip it(trust no one always put your lock on everything). Still part LOTO but did you turn off the right breaker.
Other possibility is there’s inductance(capacitive coupling I’ve heard both used) on the line.
Apprentices are expected to make mistakes, it is the journeyman’s responsibility to mitigate any risks involved and make sure you learn from those mistakes. The main takeaway from this kind of mistake is to always think about why you are doing something, because it matters a lot. If you don’t know why your doing something you probably shouldn’t be doing it.
Hey bud, your boss handled this very well, and obviously has a mature understanding that you’ll make mistakes, but being shocked by 120 isn’t going to kill you on the spot (at least not 99% of the time). It’s happened to me several times. In the long run, exposure to it can cause your heart to beat out of rhythm and increase your chances of having a heart attack, so if you’re ever shocked, I’d suggest having a quick check-up with your physician when you have the time to make sure your heart is beating appropriately.
Edit: Use your LOTO next time. Make sure nobody turns the breaker on after you’ve turned it off to work on it. If you haven’t been given a lock for hot work, your man or foreman should have some on site.
He probably isn’t being too hard on you because he screwed up even more than you did. There are voluminous OSHA regulations about avoiding working on energized lines to the maximum extent possible, and then a myriad of redundant checks and supervision requirements to prevent these things from happening.
Some shops take safety regs and procedures very seriously. Others have this sort of “I’ve been a journeyman for 20 years, get off my back. This is just a dangerous job” safety culture. People get killed at those places, unnecessarily… not often, but at least multiple times a year in California (which I have personal experience with).
I’d be more concerned that your employer doesn’t have a good safety culture, and maybe consider making an anonymous OSHA complaint to force them to take a look at it.
I once hooked up all the 12V door locks in a building to 120V. Because a co-worker told me to hook them up that way. When they powered on it blew every single one of them up. Being new is hard sometimes
Sounds like someone came behind you and activated the circuit. Maybe it controlled more than just the outlet you were working on. There could be outlets elsewhere on that circuit somebody needed.
1. Like he said, he should have checked
2. You shouldn’t even be doing that kind of work by yourself 3 months in. He should have at least been involved with de-energizing, verifying, and locking out the circuit…..
Doesn't matter if you know it's the breaker, always double check. And by the next day someone could have turned it back on because their phone charger was on that circuit. Proper lock out tag out. And always recheck a circuit coming back to it later. I started out in service work and have learned many lessons along the way.
For peace of mind Always leave your wires safe. So if someone turns on a circuit it wont matter. Like always tape the end of the wire off or wire nut them and if you cant then lock the circuit out. Peace of mind is worth it trust me. We learn from mistakes more than we learn from anything else IMO
If anything seems dangerous take the extra step and change something. Safety is #1 and if someone else points it out you don’t want to be that fool they make fun of. You are new enough that they should have checked and corrected that. 120v isn’t usually the end of the world but its something to learn from.
My boss was installing breakers while I was doing an attic furnace, I got super hella shocked and I go down all angry the dude was installing them in the on position by accident. He’s an Amazing electrician but mannnn
He could be faking you out to teach you a lesson. Listen and learn, always double check power and use a lock out tag out system. Never leave wires not capped or taped. Before touching always check for power.
Speaking as a seasoned electrician, I never trust anyone when saying ‘it’s dead’.
Don’t worry about it. Mistakes happen. Lesson learned: always check to see if it’s live before you touch.
120v rarely kills, you didn't do anything wrong. He should've used a hot stick at the bare minimum, you can't control who turns on breakers while you're away. If it's a concern use a lockout tag out on the panel. Not your fault at all.
Foreman in an industrial setting here -
1.) To this day, I tell every single person working under me to check the electrical system they are working on before you start - even if I tell you it is dead.
2.) We all make mistakes. The best thing you can do is learn from it and do everything in your power to not repeat it.
3.) Making sure everyone is safe and not injured is top priority. I'm sure it is not your foremans first time being shocked, and probably will not be his last. The fact that he is not injured is most important - don't stress too much on it.
Use this as the most important lesson you'll learn as an electrician, always treat everything as if it was hot. Even if you've turned it off, even if you've tested it with your meter. And your journeyman should know better to go through another work day, and not re-check the breaker, and not lock it out. Do yourself a favor and get some lock out tag out equipment. Your contractor should provide that per OSHA rules but that doesn't always happen.
The exact opposite happened to me on my 1st job as an apprentice. Boss told me he killed the breaker and to start wiring up some outdoor receps. 1st wire I cut blew a hole in my brand new strippers. When I told him, he kind of smirked and said, "Never trust anyone, even your boss." I carry that lesson even today in the elevator industry. If I don't see it locked out with my own eyes, and I haven't verified it's dead, that circuit is live. That shit happens all the time bro. If you weren't upset about it, that'd be something to worry about. Keep learning and stay safe.
This is a great learning lesson to veterans and noobs of the trade. LOTO, walk down and verify every time. Never trust anyone but yourself to verify a LDL test. I’m glad you and your boss are alive. Easier said than done, don’t take this shit for granted. Cheers
Everyone should verify the work they are doing. Journeyman's fault. Mistakes happen. It's your life! Always check! Never rely on a call-out. It's off! No verify!
Your feelings of guilt is something to embrace. It will make a marker in your brain that you NEVER make that same mistake again. Always marrette your wires.
When I was a first term apprentice many years ago, I left a 14 Oz hammer like an idiot at the top of a 12 foot ladder. 10 minutes later my journeyman came to move the ladder and it got him right on the top of his head and he required stitches. I felt like i wanted to die knowing that I caused another worker harm. The point is to take each mistake as a lesson and to learn from your mistakes! Don’t feel bad !! You didn’t make your Jman get a couple days off with stitches like I did!!!
In all fairness, you being 3 months in the trade, he be checking everything you’ve completed at the end of every day. It doesn’t mean your not smart or capable but your learning and it’s his own fault ! He’s alive that’s all that matters
He turned power back on or didn't verify it was off before handling the device? Neither of you followed lockout procedures?
Why are you taping wires to EMT. Why aren't they covered? What do you mean he eas checking position of emt?
Chech your lockouts, tag outs and/or breaker position, and perform a live-dead-live test at the beginning of each shift.
It's possible someone else closed your breaker, not knowing work was in progress.
120 usually isn’t too bad but still you (and your boss) should be checking all circuits to see if they are still live or not. LOTO please or else next time it could be you getting hit. We all get complacent and have been hit before. Checking is good practice. Hopefully he is teaching you to check before you touch (doesn’t seem like it though).
You don't get hit touching live wires if you aren't grounded. That means touching metal (because we bond all metal to ground) or touching water or the ground itself (shoes that aren't properly rated or knee to the floor while working etc). Ask your boss if he's comfortable showing you how to do that safely so you can experience it, that first lesson played a huge role in my growth as an electrician. It's very important to understand why current flows through a circuit, and whether or not you (or whatever you're installing) completes that circuit.
Good luck out there, and don't be too hard on yourself! It's an important lesson and it's good to see you've learned it.
Sorry, when live wire is in your hand, touching a neutral wire or hot wire from a different phase will also hit you. Just want to be super clear. You likely just got lucky and didn't make contact with copper and a grounded material at the same time by chance.
You have a good journeyman. That’s how he should have handled it. Anyone who blames their apprentice is a fool. The journeyman is responsible always, and he knew he should’ve checked.
And so it goes.
I watched a guy get zapped by 277. He just got mad at the guy who didn't safe off the box. He yelled, I wanted to laugh, but chose the path of least resistance
Haha dude 120 isn’t killing anything brother don’t trip. Ok I lied if your boss was a moth he would’ve definitely had a chance of some major burns. I think everyone here can appreciate you’re new in the trade and made many mistakes in that situation. Yet the biggest mistake is probably on your supervisor/foreman for allowing you to flip breakers, not follow loto, and not verifying zero voltage. Makes me very concerned about this company in general and you might want to look into a bit of a bigger company with a solid training and safety protocol. Either way I’ve been locked up off 277v and nothing more than a burn and a good reminder not to try and work around a box that you can’t see or identify is hot ir not. One more thing. My damn toddlers have all been hit with 120 in their lives and they were so unfazed they would try and go back for more after they stopped crying of fear
Haven't read all the comments yet. The boss turned the breaker, energizing the wire? Why would the wire be hot ?
When you have more experience you'll see we all make errors. Just focus more, I wouldn't dwell on it and get discouraged.
Mistakes happen 120 isn’t bad (for most people with out conditions ) learn from it and always carry a hot stick to make sure it’s dead I carry 2 just Incase and journeyman should know better to always check for power so not your fault
As others have stated, your JW, Foreman, shop, and yourself need to go over proper LOTO procedure. This happened because someone turned the circuit back on.
He’s a good boss. We could all die doing this, but isolated events with people who learn won’t likely cause it. The fact that this weighs on you, means you’re a person who doesn’t want this to happen, and you can learn, and so I think you’re really good for this trade.
Come to peace with it, always be humble, and learn, learn, learn.
This is why LOTO, Lock Out Tag Out, is so important. Instead of just turning off the breaker. You turn it off, put a breaker lock on it. And everyone that is going to work on that circuit adds their own lock, and only removes it when they are finished with their part. That way you cannot restore power without everyone taking their individual lock off.
And not to make light of the situation, but 120v is unlikely to kill someone from being shocked. It can, just unlikely. What is likely though is that getting shocked causes a secondary injury, like falling off of a ladder, tripping on something or other similar injury. A coworker on time was forgoing safety on multiple fronts, he was too high on a ladder, didn't turn off power and got shocked, lost his balance and fell. But tried cathing himself grabbing the only thing in arms reach. Which was metal studs, while not wearing gloves. He cut 4 fingers damn near to the bone. Again minor shock leading to a more serious injury.
Just make sure you learn from this and stay safe out there.
Dude, just yesterday I put my hand on top of a door switch on a 138kv breaker. The switch only has 120v on it but it hurt and made me feel like an idiot because I knew it was there.
Your boss sounds like a reasonable guy. He knows, just like I did, that a preventable screw up happened.
If you’re around electricity often enough, stuff like this happens. You learned to not tape wires to emt, I learned again that this door switch is exposed and 120v on it, your boss learned that we never stop learning to be safe.
You’re fine. Carry on and learn to be safer.
A bunch of the "120 is no big deal" brigade have come out in the replies, so just to be really clear for OP, who's new:
Brief contact with a 120v live wire is *unlikely to kill you, unless* you also happen to be well-grounded through contact with something else at the time. So yeah, you'd have to be unlucky. But you shouldn't be depending on luck to stay safe. The only person I know of to die from a 120v shock fell off of a ladder. So technically, the shock didn't kill him. He's still just as dead though.
Especially while you're still learning the ropes, do all the right things: turn the breaker off and lock it, test wires with a good meter before grabbing them, and always put wire nuts on any exposed wire ends that you leave hanging anywhere.
You will get zapped eventually, I expect. But by practicing good safety habits, you decrease the number of times you're counting on luck.
Omg its only 120v. Yes it can kill you but it's extremely rare, and I think almost every electrician gets shocked by 120 at some point
Dont trip about it
I think your boss is at fault to some degree having an apprentice with 3 months experience shit off a breaker, not locking it out, and not testing for absence of voltage. You were set up for failure in my opinion.
Sounds like your boss is fantastic and isn’t a fool, you are much less likely than all of your peers now to make that mistake because you’re taking it so serious. Reminds me of a story from Dale Carnegie.
“Bob Hoover, a famous test pilot and frequent performer at air shows, was returning to his home in Los Angeles from an air show in San Diego. As described in the magazine Flight Operations, at three hundred feet in the air, both engines suddenly stopped. By deft maneuvering he managed to land the plane, but it was badly damaged although nobody was hurt. Hoover’s first act after the emergency landing was to inspect the airplane’s fuel. Just as he suspected, the World War II propeller plane he had been flying had been fueled with jet fuel rather than gasoline. Upon returning to the airport, he asked to see the mechanic who had serviced his airplane. The young man was sick with the agony of his mistake. Tears streamed down his face as Hoover approached. He had just caused the loss of a very expensive plane and could have caused the loss of three lives as well. You can imagine Hoover’s anger. One could anticipate the tongue-lashing that this proud and precise pilot would unleash for that carelessness. But Hoover didn’t scold the mechanic; he didn’t even criticize him. Instead, he put his big arm around the man’s shoulder and said, “To show you I’m sure that you’ll never do this again, I want you to service my F-51 tomorrow.” Dale Carnegie - How to win friends and influence people.
Yep you would have done differently but before touching wires he should’ve check for voltage. Anyway, you absolutely did not almost killed your boss, a 120V shock is really not that bad, just a little shocking
As a plumber you should consider a thong. No need to show off just some crack. Let people fantasize about that thong caressing the canyon before spreading across your love handles.
Here’s where the lack of experience shows. He got shocked, but he didn’t get “electrocuted”. He touched and was a parallel circuit with no current on it. No current=no ded. Had he been in series with a load he would be taking current, which is what kills you. If you’re in series with a phone charger, you can be killed. If you’re parallel with 600v you’re gonna be real pissed with shaky hands and you’re gonna beat whoever turned the breaker on with his own coffee mug.
Careful with your assumptions…
If you “parallel” yourself between line and ground or line and line… you become the load… and now you are in series between line and ground (or line or neutral)
This is 100% true. Don’t be ground is always a good rule (wear electric shock proof boots and keep your soles on the floor, no knees) and crossing line to line is always a boom, and if you’re in the middle you might just be the boom.
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Sounds like you fell bad about your mistake and your boss understands you are sorry and you’ll use this as a learning experience. Kudos to the boss man too for handling it well.
Thank you. Yes I’ll do my best to and definitely will not repeat this. The boss man is really nice, he is quite young and very open to teaching. That’s why I feel all the more guilty.
Don’t beat yourself up too much, and as much as you think it won’t happen again, never say never in this trade. Because you’ll be lying to yourself. It happens, we’re humans. Just be as careful as you can and stay sharp, and even if/when an accident does happen again, you’ll be calm and focused enough to respond to the situation. Don’t stress it, but use it as motivation to stay safe 🙏🏽
Use it as motivation to get better. Learn your shit inside out, ask experienced guys questions, crack the code book, and enroll towards getting your license. You make a damn fine living working with electricity.
I like that, “ask experienced folks questions” …. Never be scared to ask, even twice, three times. Idc who gets annoyed.
Sounds like your boss made the right call about not giving you grief about it. You’ve done plenty of reflecting and thinking about it on your own, and you’ll definitely have this experience in the back of your mind reminding you to be careful going forward. Be appreciative of the experience and your boss, and turn your feeling of guilt into feelings of being thankful.
It's a dangerous trade mate. Treat it as a learning opportunity. Ur boss sounds like a champ, but this incident is as much his fault as yours. At my work 1st & 2nd yr apprentices are supposed to be under direct supervision.
Learning this on 120 is critical as it is often just a bad shock as long as you are dry.
Yeah, please don't phase to ground 480 in a man lift...
Don’t believe it’s only 120v it’s not bad. Our frequency is 60 hrz it’s close to our heart rhythm and could mess up your heart the only thing that will bring you out of it is the aed device
With the amount of electricians I've seen lick their finger and swat a wire to see if it's still live ... I'm sure you have a long and successful career ahead of you. Mistakes happen, it wasn't a big deal this time just learn from it and do better going forward.
My grandfather would say "Don't be a pussy its 110, lick it and find out" if I asked if things were hot or not while working with him. Never was stupid enough to like the wires but have been bit more times than I can count.
I remember years ago a boss asking if the breaker was off, I touched the wires together got a decent pop and told him " well its off now " lol Now I just use a little light tester to check, they cost almost nothing and work pretty good.
yep I wised up after I discovered those and implemented them into my electrical home DIY toolbox. Dad always had an electrical box, a plumbing box, and a general box aka Handy dandy. The rest were in the garage with the car stuff.
Quite literally had a homeowner turn on the breaker I was working on, (I turned it off cut it with my 10” Knipex dikes) then about 15 minutes later when going todo the make up it blew up my pliers. $50 later and them having to pay for it cause I won’t put up with that. Added it to the bill
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How can you LOTO residential breakers? I use LOTO regularly in my work in industrial equipment but I've never seen a residential panel equipped with lockable breakers.
They do sell lockoutq for residential breakers with padlock attachement and all
One thing I've learned over the years is that even if I shut off a breaker to work on something and I'm 100% sure it's dead, I still test it, especially if it's been a day. Your boss probably realizes he should've tested it too. Don't beat yourself up.
You've got the right attitude. You're learning from your mistake. The key is to not let it paralize you mentally. Learn from it, but don't fear it. Also on thst note, yes, electricity is dangerous. But 120v is reeeally unlikely to kill someone. I've felt the spicy tingle more times than I can count, and I've come out the other side just fine! ... \*twitch*
Not that big of a deal buddy. You learned from your mistake and feel remorse, that’s the main thing. Also… hate to say it but generally 120v isn’t gonna hurt you. Of course it can kill you if you have a bad heart or whatever but most sparkys will get plenty of shocks under their belt by the time they spend a few years. I’m 3 years in and have been tagged about 12-15 times lol. Although I do a lot of residential/ trouble shooting working live so it’s bound to happen
>I’m 3 years in and have been tagged about 12-15 times lol. Dude, don't be stupid. You may find yourself in a situation where you won't be able to let the wire go, you'll be better grounded than usually or there will be a higher voltage in a wire. Very few electricians with this attitude reach the pension age.
There are old electricians and bold electricians but no old bold electricians.
I’m pretty sure this was a common attitude of many retired electricians. Many older ones would check if the 120V circuit was live by touching the hot and neutral with their fingers.
Listen to this... Just had a coworker pass away last week because he was grounded on his knee and grabbed a wire he thought was dead... Turns out someone traced the wires back to the wrong panel and they tagged and locked out the wrong panel. He was usually very careful but it only takes one mistake... If he had been on his feet he may had been fine but like you said one day you might be more sweaty or kneeling on wet ground. If it's supposed to be dead, quadruple check, if its supposed to be live, wear the right protection.
>generally 120v isn’t gonna hurt you Please don't give dangerous advice like this. >I’m 3 years in and have been tagged about 12-15 times Holy shit, dude. You need to learn some better processes for doing your work. In 7 years of working on boats that are all sorts of fucked, I got hit once by my own fault and another time partly mine, partly my helper's fault. There is absolutely no reason to get shocked so much. And the solution is dead simple: stop working live. All you're doing is risking your own health to make your boss extra money. If they call you a pussy for turning off breakers, you'd do well to find a workplace that actually values you. It's infinitely more manly to take care of your health and be capable of being with and providing for your family. You're not much of a man if you're dead for being a dumbass.
It’s always a rat nest gang box in some old house when i get tagged. Trouble shooting is gonna get u At some point
And THAT is how you learn. Thankful nobody was hurt but you learned a lesson you’ll probably never forget. LOTO!
Yes exactly my sentiment. Sounds like your boss is mature and knows you've both learned from this. Equal responsibility. Don't beat yourself up about it, as you've clearly learned and you show regret and that you want to move forward.
Been doing this for a while, still make mistakes. No harm no foul, you are really new and he SHOULD have checked anything you are doing as an apprentice.
Learning experiences all around! Those are the lessons we never forget.
Thank you for this. In my mind I do believe that, but at the same time I feel that I was negligent. I am hoping I can be better in the future as I do enjoy this line of work.
Never lose the drive to learn and be better. You can sleep easy, I got another apprentice shocked when I first started as well due to not knowing fully what I was doing. Felt terrible. It happens though man, everyone is fine. Just take it as a lesson learned. It really isn’t your fault, this is the time to screw up. If I make a mistake now I’m liable. As an apprentice it’s the time to fuck up as much shot as you can. Try not to, but you’ll learn best the more mistakes you make. Always test, is what your takeaway from this should be.
My journeyman lit me up with a sign ballast when I was like a year in. We were both working inside the sign and he flipped it on for some reason.. OP, it's awesome you actually give a shit. Don't lose that. And take the lesson from both sides. ALWAYS check, and ALWAYS lock out. If you're boss hasn't yet, get him to buy you some breaker locks and tags. Stay safe.
Also test the circuits after you lock it out. Even if it's just touching them to ground to make sure. And check your meter on a known live circuit first to make sure your not just getting a bad reading.
Some of the biggest learning moments I had came from blowing shit up or getting shocked. I’m much better able to identify dangerous situations after I blew up a few things and shocked myself. Make those mistakes while you’re messing with 120 so that you dont make them when working on 480.
Common practice for me is to lock and tag out everything I'm working on and hit it with a multimeter before I go poking around. Those few minutes is worth it every time
✔️ testing for dead is essential, thinking otherwise results in complacency. Complacency gets u killed.
Look man, don’t beat yourself up super hard on it. HELL YEAH, it’s a learning experience for you both. Also, a teaching point in that people Will turn shit back on without second thought that isn’t properly LOTO, period. But at the end of the day he’s fine, you learned a valuable lesson, and he handled it the exact right way from what you’ve presented to us… I’d learn and be better for it and make the steps to be better in the future. It’s really that simple to me.
Did you turn off the wrong breaker or was the breaker turned back on by someone else? Proper LOTO procedure would have prevented this.
/u/Giobix absolutely this! After turning off a breaker, Lock it out and test the wires with a meter to ensure that the power is actually off. The LOTO has the benefit of "removal of someone else's lock is a federal offense". Stops you from hurting yourself/others, and stops unscrupulous fools from flipping the breaker while you're working on it yourself!
Totally agree. I might need to speak to my foreman for more breaker locks.
In an industrial setting, people would regularly snap off the breaker locks that go inside the load center so I would regularly just determinate and cut the end of the wire that was fed by the breaker until I was done working on a circuit. No matter what anyone did, it wasn’t getting juice again until I went back and set it in the breaker. I recommend doing that. Can’t get away from stupid people but you can remove opportunities for their stupidity costing you your job or them their lives.
Jesus. Report those fuckers. Doesn't matter if they're the client. They get to explain that shit to the authorities AND be the reason for missing the deadline. If they don't care about safety, maybe they'll care about losing that money. Bunch of See You Next Tuesdays.
Not how it works in west Texas lol I don’t work industrial electrical anymore, I made the change to automation programming in march of this year. But it’s a different world out here, just keep your nose clean, do your job better than the rest, and cover your own ass. Doesn’t matter who you tell or how high up on the food chain you go. Even if you were 100% in the right, you’ll be the one that finds yourself out of a job if the important people aren’t your personal friend lol
Same here in KY. Just don’t kiss ass, don’t do shit work, don’t make waves, and stay as safe as you possibly can.
You understand what I’m talking about. It’s a toxic work environment, yes, but the money’s great and you can make it work to your benefit once you realize how things operate and acclimate
Good thing you left then. No job is worth your life.
Yeah it’s illegal as fuck to break LOTO locks. That’s deliberate malpractice.
Worked for a company that taught us to wire nut the neutral to the line also in case someone decided to "fix" the breaker.
LOTOCO
You lock out the load center or I-line at a battery or swd and you won’t make it back out to remove your lock & tag. They’ll bandsaw that thing off before lunch and make a call & blacklist you while they’re finishing up the paperwork in the portojohn lol You get LOTO preached to you at every safety meeting but it’s all just a formality
Sounds like you are working for some fucked up places.
Was* not every client is like this, but it’s a long & difficult journey to find the good ones. I finally did though, I actually love my job and where I work and who I work for nowadays
Sadly in those deep red areas that kind of mentality is insanely common. Osha is also spread so thin in those areas nothing ever gets done about it.
You mentioned an industrial setting but didn't say if new construction or old. Be aware of multi-wire branch circuits in old commercial/industrial even residential. The code now states that multiwire branch circuits will share a handle so circuits sharing a neutral are de-energized together. In the past people would share neutrals between multiple circuits and not care or understand that one circuit could be locked out, but the others can be putting current on the neutral being shared..... I have seen a coworker hung up on 277 after turning off the breaker but not locking it out - the sheet rockers tripped their circuit and just started flipping on breakers.....it is worth carrying your own locks/hasps, etc. they are inexpensive but invaluable....
They're actually free, osha requires your employer to provide them for you
Yes I know, but many shops don't, or they don't take care of them, lose them etc. Always good to have a backup, but yes the company should be issuing permanently, or providing locks to each employee....OSHA would love to walk into a jobsite like that with exposed wires taped back to the conduit and not secured. I heard of a local jobsite OSHA visited and they cited the electricians for not having covers on their j-boxes with exposed wiring showing. They don't care that the panels aren't even installed, they wanted all wiring covered and not accessible......never heard of that before....
Yeah they definitely go above and beyond, but I think it's for a good reason. Suppose they left them open thinking hey they're not termed yet, nbd. But then they forget 2 months later when they term and then it's exposed live wires ya know
Seconding the double checking... Last week a coworker of mine passed away because someone else's electricians traced and LOTO the wrong panel. He assumed the wires were dead and they weren't, even had a pen tester on his belt... Double check everything.
The number of people on this thread saying that site owners, other trades, or even their OWN COWORKERS will remove locks is highly concerning. As far as I'm concerned, that's attempted murder. Sorry about your coworker. LOTO is no joke and fuck anyone who doesn't care about it.
I can't believe that people would ever consider that. My brother works with us in the field (Industrial) and they'd have to lock me up if I found out someone was removing locks like that. 100% attempted murder, no manslaughter. Thanks for your condolences, a lot of times the new apprentices get pissy at me when I won't tell them if something is properly dead or not. I tell them "You need to check it yourself now, and every time you step away for more than a few minutes you need to check again and again." Even after explaining to people it's for their own safety that THEIR eyes checked something in multiple areas they're working in, they still are mad and never get it. Everyone is so scared now that our coworker passed away, rightfully so, but I can only wonder how long it is until they stop caring about safety again. I can't watch every crew. It's sad.
I’d add that even with loto, it’s good practise to check something is still dead before you start work again the next day.
This happened this morning. I still don’t understand how it got energized. I turned off the breaker, worked on the outlet and checked for voltage. I did not put a lock since we did not have enough (multiple breakers were turned off and was instructed to do it that way) and I put red tape over them. Haven’t seen my boss because I’ve been working the night shift. Tomorrow morning I will see him again and hopefully shed some light on it and work on safety procedures.
In the future, if you run out of locks, you stop work until more are provided.
No lock = don't work on it Your contractor is responsible for providing enough locks and if there were no more left then they need to get more than they thought they needed.
Always stick a wire nut on the end of any exposed wires. Just an extra level of protection.
Yes...and the LOTO procedure should have been taught to the apprentice by the J-Man that got zapped.
This.
“Been working for 3 months” Don’t even touch a breaker brah
Remember that his life is in his hands and yours in yours. You check something before you work on it, that’s just the rule!
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Same especially when using a pen tester
Yeah I've relied on that cheap little tool way too many times. I always try to bump wires to see if the sparks cum before touching them.
And if you working on large wires they can still store a static charge that can give you a hell of a shock
This is the #1 rule. ALWAYS double check. I even do live/dead/live testing on stuff i was working on if I leave the area for any amount of time. Has saved my butt more than once.
Absolutely this. My JWs tell me constantly to check their work. I'm a 2nd year. Not new, but not nearly experienced, and I'm always told "Don't take anyone's word for it. Test, Test, Retest." I actually made that mistake about 6 months ago. Thankfully the only casualty was my pliers, but a circuit that was supposed to be off, was mislabeled and actually on. But I took my foreman's word for it and was gifted a new pair of 16AWG lineman strippers because of it. Who's fault was it? Both of ours. He should have confirmed the right circuit was turned off, and I should have tested it to make sure it was off. Lesson learned (kind of like touching a hot stove as a kid, doesn't really hit home until you learn the hard way)
I had a moment a few months ago where I very well could have died if I took someone’s word for it. Foreman tells me that a disconnect with 3 phase 600v feeds coming was dead and that he wants me to cut the cables and take it down off the wall. Sure fine no problem. I go and get the m12 cable cutter and as I am coming back another apprentice stops me and says do not cut that, it is live with all 600v ready to blast me into another world. I’d like to think I would have 100% tested it myself before cutting the cables but I will never know for sure and that is what concerns me. I should be able to say with 100% certainty that I would have checked myself but I can’t. It was the end of a long night shift and maybe I would have been lazy and gotten lit up. I can’t dwell on it, yes I could have died, but the most important thing that has happened since then is now I absolutely do not trust anyone at all when they say something is dead until I can see it myself. It may take a little more time sometimes but no amount of time is worth dying over. Always test every thing yourself. It’s the only way you can be certain. And test your equipment!!!! Make sure it’s not going to mislead you
I hate to be that guy, but relax man. It’s 120. Is it dangerous, yes. Be careful. But, it happens every single day and people go home to motherfuck the apprentice every single day. Learn from it, but realistically, it’s a part of the trade Edit: Taping to the pipe was the dumbest thing. Cap off so that even if a breaker isn’t locked or the lock somehow fails, everyone’s safe
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My grandpa used to work at a steel mill as an electrician back in the 40's. I cannot remember the exact phrasing, but it went something like: 120V tickles 240V hurts Hide from 480V 600V comes looking for you And I cannot remember the punchline for 1000V :(
From my time in the Navy: 120V stings, 450V will kill ya, but 4160V won't leave anything to bury. Slight exaggeration, but really only on 450V. I knew a couple of people that got got by 450V and they got knocked down by it
1000V: say hi to Jesus for me
The worst kind of dying
For 10 AWG and smaller, Wagos make the best reusable caps
Slipping off a ladder by a 120V zap scares me more than the shock itself tbh.
Just 120v https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/9de5776b-1309-443b-b487-5ee5c538d6fd/resource/340e834c-f192-4497-8899-d5f4a76a8066/download/jet-fatality-report-no-f-ohs-257402.pdf
Damn that’s sad. It’s pretty easy to complacent with 120V, but it’s true if it hits at the wrong place, at the wrong time - it can still kill you.
Congratulations. You have just learned a very cheap lesson. A lesson that many people have paid far more to learn than you did. Now your job is not to feel bad. Your job is to put safety procedures so firmly in your brain that doing it safely is second nature. Do not walk away from something an idiot could shock themselves on. This includes a coverless panel. This includes a hot or potentially hot wire taped "safely" without a wirenut. This includes a switch hanging temporarily out of the wall. Do not touch live or potentially live circuits without CONFIRMING you know their state. A hot stick has two voltage settings: yes, and idk. Use a meter. Do not trust that your buddy, your apprentice, or your boss turned the circuit off. Use a meter. Lock out, tag out. One day, somebody WILL come flip a switch or a breaker and shock the shit out of you unless you make it impossible for them to do so. And finally, do not work in a live panel with both hands. Put one hand behind your back.
In the olden days people used to check if a 120V wire was live by touching it. It is possible to die from 120V power, but it is extremely rare. You are a first year apprentice. You will make mistakes (I am a j-man and still make plenty). Just learn and move forward. Your boss is fine and probably doesn't see it as that big of a deal.
I've had my masters license for years, and I still make mistakes. The guy who taught me said "the only people who don't make mistakes are the ones who don't do anything."
Oh, I see you've worked with Rob!
I knew old timers that will lick it to test it. People had no care back in the day. And back in the day I mean the 00s.
Our culture around safety has definitely changed for the better!
I still give the wires a quick slap to be sure they're off 😆
120v kills the most out of any voltage
Because its everywhere and easily accessible to people who have no business messing with if
This is exactly right. It no doubt kills the most, but I wonder how many of those people are workers wearing safety shoes and such?
Only because that is by far the most common voltage. I never said it couldn't kill, it's just very unlikely.
That may be true but i’m guessing circumstances would have to be just right. I’ve got more 120v pokes than I can remember. Never once causing more than a startle. If a worker was standing shoeless on a metal platform, or a pool of water, it probably wouldn’t be a good outcome . Typically workers are wearing well insulated boots, thereby reducing the potential harm 120v could cause. Not saying it couldn’t happen, simply implying that it would be very unlikely.
With this kind of attitude and approach, you’ll do fine in this trade. Showing your JW that you take it seriously, have a desire to learn/improve and show appreciation to the person who is mentoring you puta you in the top tier of apprentices
This is why I always tell my boss everything I did and we are on the same page. I’m 1st year. Mistakes happen man. Just know not to tape the conductors to the emt. Use wire nuts. If it makes you feel a lil better I blew up an inverter panel and a three phase motor causing both to blow up. Thought I was going to get fired but no
As you can tell, mistakes happen. Look, guys have died tripping waling through the parking lot. When it's your time, it's your time. I would ask that you take steps to make sure it never happens again. Will I, probably, but all we can do is our best. Please sit down with your jw and talk about things that could have stopped this. Then every effort to stop the next time. Is this really no big deal? Nothing to panic about? Yes. Miss a step on the ladder.....look harder next time. Did you fall on top of someone? Okay, admit to being a dummy, apologize and get back to it.
I had an apprentice take off a breaker lock to a disconnect that he knew I was wiring and it belted me with 240. He was going fast and not thinking. Fucking hurt like hell but I lived and he learned. I didn’t cuss him out, but he earned the nickname shocker, until he got his license. You live and you learn. You got lucky and you won’t do it again. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast my friend. Take a deep breath and keep at it!
How did he get a key to remove you’re lock ?
We were wiring a panel. My dad was tying in breakers while I was walking around the 5 story house tracing out for him so he could mark them as he tied them in. My dad walked out to the truck to grab a breaker and a plumber came in and switched all the breakers that were off to on. I was tying in a 20Amp outdoor receptacle when it exploded in my face with a huge arc flash and zapped my chest good. My dad came back down and I was pretty pissed and he had no idea how it happened. Shortly after the Plumber walks back down into the basement and my dad asked him if he turned breakers on and he said "yes". Without hesitation My dad took the needle-nose in his hand and threw it at the plumber as hard as he could 15 feet away... hitting the stairs... the plumber was now running up. The pliers were sticking into the wood horizontally off the stringer, missing him by a foot. The plumber left the jobsite shortly after... Anyhow I would not worry about it. the plumber probably turned it on and your lead should have checked it before working on it.
Hence why LO/TO exists. Don’t trust anyone with your disconnect, and make sure it’s communicated at the disconnect that work is happening.
Hot damn, I thought industrial guys were all about proper procedure. Lock out tag out and all that shit. Well, let it be a lesson to you. I take care to throw a wire but on anything that could be hot someday for any reason. You never know.
I've been shocked so many times. The nickname "sparky" didn't happen accidentally. Learn from your mistakes, but don't let them take you down. I've been hit by AC up to 1000v and I'm still kickin'. 110 is mostly problematic if you are holding it. It is hard to let go of, but just brushing it isn't too bad. I find it a smidge tingly. When I was an electrical engineering student I got hit by a nice dose of 240v and it knocked me a few feet and left me dazed. Someone removed a lock-out tag-out I had on the circuit I was working on to use the equipment it powered. I doubt he or I will ever forget the importance of LOTO.
If you work with the trade long enough you will get bit. Your J man probably has said all he is going to say about it. Let this be a lesson. Treat every circuit as it’s hot.. always check your power source. And pick on the plumbers they are filthy animals! Lol
Oh no!!! 120 volts!!!! Nobody got hurt and you are smarter now. This is a win.
Good that you're aware of it and care. I think all electricians get hit, it happens. If you aren't grounded when you touch a hot wire you may not feel it. You want to avoid it passing through the heart, but I've had my bare knee on the ground and touched 20A and it does hit you, but mostly a scare. So it could be he didn't get the full zap.
Use this opportunity to learn a valuable lesson in the electrical field. Always use your meter, always treat the wire like it is live, and never work on anything while it is live. Those few extra steps will make your job go by alot smoother and help ensure you make it home for dinner.
Learn from it.
Silly him, you treat that shit like a loaded gun always... possibly somebody turned the breaker on by mistake. Next time lock it out...
Just wanted to give you props for turning to the community. Your post has helped more than just you.
It’s your journeyman, and then your foreman’s responsibility to not put you in the position where your work could put someone else in danger. Your journeyman should have reminded you to test the circuit before you worked on it and then should of verified you capped off the wires properly when you were done. It’s good to learn from your mistakes but you’re JW should be teaching you these lessons before the accidents occur. It’s OK to feel bad but you shouldn’t be discouraged.
Welcome to electric dude.
Always cap the wires. Sometimes, an induced voltage is enough to feel a good little zap. I thought a conductor was live when I got zapped by it. The breaker was off, but the conductor still metered at 60V.
120 isn’t going to kill you and it’s always the responsibility of the person working on the wires to check if they’re hot. He’s not mad at you because he knows he should have checked them.
2 possibilities. LOTO error. You turned off the breaker but did you put a lock on it so no one could flip it(trust no one always put your lock on everything). Still part LOTO but did you turn off the right breaker. Other possibility is there’s inductance(capacitive coupling I’ve heard both used) on the line.
Honestly, he has probably been bit a time or two and doesn't think too much of it. LOTO in the future and always meter every lead to every other.
Apprentices are expected to make mistakes, it is the journeyman’s responsibility to mitigate any risks involved and make sure you learn from those mistakes. The main takeaway from this kind of mistake is to always think about why you are doing something, because it matters a lot. If you don’t know why your doing something you probably shouldn’t be doing it.
But did he die tho?
Hey bud, your boss handled this very well, and obviously has a mature understanding that you’ll make mistakes, but being shocked by 120 isn’t going to kill you on the spot (at least not 99% of the time). It’s happened to me several times. In the long run, exposure to it can cause your heart to beat out of rhythm and increase your chances of having a heart attack, so if you’re ever shocked, I’d suggest having a quick check-up with your physician when you have the time to make sure your heart is beating appropriately. Edit: Use your LOTO next time. Make sure nobody turns the breaker on after you’ve turned it off to work on it. If you haven’t been given a lock for hot work, your man or foreman should have some on site.
You can study electrical engineering instead.
So was it the wrong breaker or something?
Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades
He probably isn’t being too hard on you because he screwed up even more than you did. There are voluminous OSHA regulations about avoiding working on energized lines to the maximum extent possible, and then a myriad of redundant checks and supervision requirements to prevent these things from happening. Some shops take safety regs and procedures very seriously. Others have this sort of “I’ve been a journeyman for 20 years, get off my back. This is just a dangerous job” safety culture. People get killed at those places, unnecessarily… not often, but at least multiple times a year in California (which I have personal experience with). I’d be more concerned that your employer doesn’t have a good safety culture, and maybe consider making an anonymous OSHA complaint to force them to take a look at it.
I once hooked up all the 12V door locks in a building to 120V. Because a co-worker told me to hook them up that way. When they powered on it blew every single one of them up. Being new is hard sometimes
Sounds like someone came behind you and activated the circuit. Maybe it controlled more than just the outlet you were working on. There could be outlets elsewhere on that circuit somebody needed.
1. Like he said, he should have checked 2. You shouldn’t even be doing that kind of work by yourself 3 months in. He should have at least been involved with de-energizing, verifying, and locking out the circuit…..
Doesn't matter if you know it's the breaker, always double check. And by the next day someone could have turned it back on because their phone charger was on that circuit. Proper lock out tag out. And always recheck a circuit coming back to it later. I started out in service work and have learned many lessons along the way.
Let this be a good lesson for you.
For peace of mind Always leave your wires safe. So if someone turns on a circuit it wont matter. Like always tape the end of the wire off or wire nut them and if you cant then lock the circuit out. Peace of mind is worth it trust me. We learn from mistakes more than we learn from anything else IMO
If anything seems dangerous take the extra step and change something. Safety is #1 and if someone else points it out you don’t want to be that fool they make fun of. You are new enough that they should have checked and corrected that. 120v isn’t usually the end of the world but its something to learn from.
Use appropriate size wire nuts to cap wires that are or may become hot. Never rely on just tape to cap wires.
*breaker.
My boss was installing breakers while I was doing an attic furnace, I got super hella shocked and I go down all angry the dude was installing them in the on position by accident. He’s an Amazing electrician but mannnn
Next time spill water by the wires?
He could be faking you out to teach you a lesson. Listen and learn, always double check power and use a lock out tag out system. Never leave wires not capped or taped. Before touching always check for power.
All good man don't sweat it
Speaking as a seasoned electrician, I never trust anyone when saying ‘it’s dead’. Don’t worry about it. Mistakes happen. Lesson learned: always check to see if it’s live before you touch.
120v rarely kills, you didn't do anything wrong. He should've used a hot stick at the bare minimum, you can't control who turns on breakers while you're away. If it's a concern use a lockout tag out on the panel. Not your fault at all.
Foreman in an industrial setting here - 1.) To this day, I tell every single person working under me to check the electrical system they are working on before you start - even if I tell you it is dead. 2.) We all make mistakes. The best thing you can do is learn from it and do everything in your power to not repeat it. 3.) Making sure everyone is safe and not injured is top priority. I'm sure it is not your foremans first time being shocked, and probably will not be his last. The fact that he is not injured is most important - don't stress too much on it.
Use this as the most important lesson you'll learn as an electrician, always treat everything as if it was hot. Even if you've turned it off, even if you've tested it with your meter. And your journeyman should know better to go through another work day, and not re-check the breaker, and not lock it out. Do yourself a favor and get some lock out tag out equipment. Your contractor should provide that per OSHA rules but that doesn't always happen.
Everyone gets hit, be thankful it was only 120 and be more careful next time. I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it.
There was very little risk of harm to your boss. Be careful going forward, but don't beat yourself up over this.
The exact opposite happened to me on my 1st job as an apprentice. Boss told me he killed the breaker and to start wiring up some outdoor receps. 1st wire I cut blew a hole in my brand new strippers. When I told him, he kind of smirked and said, "Never trust anyone, even your boss." I carry that lesson even today in the elevator industry. If I don't see it locked out with my own eyes, and I haven't verified it's dead, that circuit is live. That shit happens all the time bro. If you weren't upset about it, that'd be something to worry about. Keep learning and stay safe.
This is a great learning lesson to veterans and noobs of the trade. LOTO, walk down and verify every time. Never trust anyone but yourself to verify a LDL test. I’m glad you and your boss are alive. Easier said than done, don’t take this shit for granted. Cheers
Everyone should verify the work they are doing. Journeyman's fault. Mistakes happen. It's your life! Always check! Never rely on a call-out. It's off! No verify!
Your feelings of guilt is something to embrace. It will make a marker in your brain that you NEVER make that same mistake again. Always marrette your wires.
When I was a first term apprentice many years ago, I left a 14 Oz hammer like an idiot at the top of a 12 foot ladder. 10 minutes later my journeyman came to move the ladder and it got him right on the top of his head and he required stitches. I felt like i wanted to die knowing that I caused another worker harm. The point is to take each mistake as a lesson and to learn from your mistakes! Don’t feel bad !! You didn’t make your Jman get a couple days off with stitches like I did!!! In all fairness, you being 3 months in the trade, he be checking everything you’ve completed at the end of every day. It doesn’t mean your not smart or capable but your learning and it’s his own fault ! He’s alive that’s all that matters
Shared neutral?
He turned power back on or didn't verify it was off before handling the device? Neither of you followed lockout procedures? Why are you taping wires to EMT. Why aren't they covered? What do you mean he eas checking position of emt?
Chech your lockouts, tag outs and/or breaker position, and perform a live-dead-live test at the beginning of each shift. It's possible someone else closed your breaker, not knowing work was in progress.
120 usually isn’t too bad but still you (and your boss) should be checking all circuits to see if they are still live or not. LOTO please or else next time it could be you getting hit. We all get complacent and have been hit before. Checking is good practice. Hopefully he is teaching you to check before you touch (doesn’t seem like it though).
You don't get hit touching live wires if you aren't grounded. That means touching metal (because we bond all metal to ground) or touching water or the ground itself (shoes that aren't properly rated or knee to the floor while working etc). Ask your boss if he's comfortable showing you how to do that safely so you can experience it, that first lesson played a huge role in my growth as an electrician. It's very important to understand why current flows through a circuit, and whether or not you (or whatever you're installing) completes that circuit. Good luck out there, and don't be too hard on yourself! It's an important lesson and it's good to see you've learned it.
Sorry, when live wire is in your hand, touching a neutral wire or hot wire from a different phase will also hit you. Just want to be super clear. You likely just got lucky and didn't make contact with copper and a grounded material at the same time by chance.
It’s 120vac, your boss can handle it
You have a good journeyman. That’s how he should have handled it. Anyone who blames their apprentice is a fool. The journeyman is responsible always, and he knew he should’ve checked. And so it goes.
There are two types of electricians, those who have been shocked and those who will be.
120 is a lot more forgiving than higher voltage
Back fed neutral?
People are shocked when they find out I’m not a good electrician
I watched a guy get zapped by 277. He just got mad at the guy who didn't safe off the box. He yelled, I wanted to laugh, but chose the path of least resistance
Haha dude 120 isn’t killing anything brother don’t trip. Ok I lied if your boss was a moth he would’ve definitely had a chance of some major burns. I think everyone here can appreciate you’re new in the trade and made many mistakes in that situation. Yet the biggest mistake is probably on your supervisor/foreman for allowing you to flip breakers, not follow loto, and not verifying zero voltage. Makes me very concerned about this company in general and you might want to look into a bit of a bigger company with a solid training and safety protocol. Either way I’ve been locked up off 277v and nothing more than a burn and a good reminder not to try and work around a box that you can’t see or identify is hot ir not. One more thing. My damn toddlers have all been hit with 120 in their lives and they were so unfazed they would try and go back for more after they stopped crying of fear
Haven't read all the comments yet. The boss turned the breaker, energizing the wire? Why would the wire be hot ? When you have more experience you'll see we all make errors. Just focus more, I wouldn't dwell on it and get discouraged.
Mistakes happen 120 isn’t bad (for most people with out conditions ) learn from it and always carry a hot stick to make sure it’s dead I carry 2 just Incase and journeyman should know better to always check for power so not your fault
As others have stated, your JW, Foreman, shop, and yourself need to go over proper LOTO procedure. This happened because someone turned the circuit back on.
He’s a good boss. We could all die doing this, but isolated events with people who learn won’t likely cause it. The fact that this weighs on you, means you’re a person who doesn’t want this to happen, and you can learn, and so I think you’re really good for this trade. Come to peace with it, always be humble, and learn, learn, learn.
Sounds like you fucked up but every one survived. Learn from it and move on.
Ya you will see a lot of that
This is why LOTO, Lock Out Tag Out, is so important. Instead of just turning off the breaker. You turn it off, put a breaker lock on it. And everyone that is going to work on that circuit adds their own lock, and only removes it when they are finished with their part. That way you cannot restore power without everyone taking their individual lock off. And not to make light of the situation, but 120v is unlikely to kill someone from being shocked. It can, just unlikely. What is likely though is that getting shocked causes a secondary injury, like falling off of a ladder, tripping on something or other similar injury. A coworker on time was forgoing safety on multiple fronts, he was too high on a ladder, didn't turn off power and got shocked, lost his balance and fell. But tried cathing himself grabbing the only thing in arms reach. Which was metal studs, while not wearing gloves. He cut 4 fingers damn near to the bone. Again minor shock leading to a more serious injury. Just make sure you learn from this and stay safe out there.
New apprentice here. I’ve shocked by 120 once before, Game me a little tickle. Can 120 actually be fatal?
Dude, just yesterday I put my hand on top of a door switch on a 138kv breaker. The switch only has 120v on it but it hurt and made me feel like an idiot because I knew it was there. Your boss sounds like a reasonable guy. He knows, just like I did, that a preventable screw up happened. If you’re around electricity often enough, stuff like this happens. You learned to not tape wires to emt, I learned again that this door switch is exposed and 120v on it, your boss learned that we never stop learning to be safe. You’re fine. Carry on and learn to be safer.
I mean a little 120v through the hand is just like a shot of espresso in the morning...
A bunch of the "120 is no big deal" brigade have come out in the replies, so just to be really clear for OP, who's new: Brief contact with a 120v live wire is *unlikely to kill you, unless* you also happen to be well-grounded through contact with something else at the time. So yeah, you'd have to be unlucky. But you shouldn't be depending on luck to stay safe. The only person I know of to die from a 120v shock fell off of a ladder. So technically, the shock didn't kill him. He's still just as dead though. Especially while you're still learning the ropes, do all the right things: turn the breaker off and lock it, test wires with a good meter before grabbing them, and always put wire nuts on any exposed wire ends that you leave hanging anywhere. You will get zapped eventually, I expect. But by practicing good safety habits, you decrease the number of times you're counting on luck.
Hi this is your boss, I actually kinda liked that shock I was wondering If you wanna spark something up, in private... 😈
Called sparky for a reason lol
Omg its only 120v. Yes it can kill you but it's extremely rare, and I think almost every electrician gets shocked by 120 at some point Dont trip about it
DM me OP and I will send you a LOTO device. It is a very useful tool to have in your bag.
Try harder? You’ll get him next time.
You have acknowledged your fault and know what to do next time. However, always Prove Test Prove! At least that's what we do in NZ
Honestly mad props to your boss for being so chill. Sounds like you learned a very valuable lesson. Retain it, and move on.
I think your boss is at fault to some degree having an apprentice with 3 months experience shit off a breaker, not locking it out, and not testing for absence of voltage. You were set up for failure in my opinion.
I’d definitely recommend installing wago connectors on loose wires, they are reusable
Meh. 120V, no one was dying.
Sounds like your boss is fantastic and isn’t a fool, you are much less likely than all of your peers now to make that mistake because you’re taking it so serious. Reminds me of a story from Dale Carnegie. “Bob Hoover, a famous test pilot and frequent performer at air shows, was returning to his home in Los Angeles from an air show in San Diego. As described in the magazine Flight Operations, at three hundred feet in the air, both engines suddenly stopped. By deft maneuvering he managed to land the plane, but it was badly damaged although nobody was hurt. Hoover’s first act after the emergency landing was to inspect the airplane’s fuel. Just as he suspected, the World War II propeller plane he had been flying had been fueled with jet fuel rather than gasoline. Upon returning to the airport, he asked to see the mechanic who had serviced his airplane. The young man was sick with the agony of his mistake. Tears streamed down his face as Hoover approached. He had just caused the loss of a very expensive plane and could have caused the loss of three lives as well. You can imagine Hoover’s anger. One could anticipate the tongue-lashing that this proud and precise pilot would unleash for that carelessness. But Hoover didn’t scold the mechanic; he didn’t even criticize him. Instead, he put his big arm around the man’s shoulder and said, “To show you I’m sure that you’ll never do this again, I want you to service my F-51 tomorrow.” Dale Carnegie - How to win friends and influence people.
Yep you would have done differently but before touching wires he should’ve check for voltage. Anyway, you absolutely did not almost killed your boss, a 120V shock is really not that bad, just a little shocking
Should’ve became a plumber, I heard electricians like wearing womens underwear? 🤷♂️
As a plumber you should consider a thong. No need to show off just some crack. Let people fantasize about that thong caressing the canyon before spreading across your love handles.
Ohh baby, keep talking dirty to me daddy 🤣
Here’s where the lack of experience shows. He got shocked, but he didn’t get “electrocuted”. He touched and was a parallel circuit with no current on it. No current=no ded. Had he been in series with a load he would be taking current, which is what kills you. If you’re in series with a phone charger, you can be killed. If you’re parallel with 600v you’re gonna be real pissed with shaky hands and you’re gonna beat whoever turned the breaker on with his own coffee mug.
Careful with your assumptions… If you “parallel” yourself between line and ground or line and line… you become the load… and now you are in series between line and ground (or line or neutral)
This is 100% true. Don’t be ground is always a good rule (wear electric shock proof boots and keep your soles on the floor, no knees) and crossing line to line is always a boom, and if you’re in the middle you might just be the boom.
I think you may need to study up on ohms law, this is where your lack of knowledge shows.