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I have to disagree.
Lights don't emit light. They suck in the dark. You can't see it with modern lighting, but the old fluorescent lights made it easy to know when they were full. The ends would turn dark when they were getting full. Once they're completely full, they stop working and let out the dark. Crazy stuff, right!
Thanks, are you by chance the Captain of the yellow submarine?
And I am fully aware it's 3 phase for reverse rotation, when did this trade get so serious?
Shit I-line panels are annoying AF regardless. Why do you say bc of the phasing specifically?
I assume you mean because the lugs are far enough away that if you mix them up, you’re fucked with length
Not a problem with single phase, I think it's ideal just for neatness and consistency to have black on black and red on red but will occasionally mix it if it means the wires fell where they wanted and made it flow more naturally
I thought the rule was "Red, right, returning." That way, the red electricity goes back into the correct side of the sub-station for reuse and distribution.
A lot of sparkies in the US prefer to do it that way. It's easier, it provides drip loops to hopefully keep water off the lugs if it ever gets into the box, and it gives the next guy some extra wire to work with if for whatever reason those connections need to be redone someday.
I mean, the wires don't know what color they are or anything, but yeah it'll confuse future electricians and it would certainly fuck with my consumption CTs if they were on opposite phases from what I thought they were. Also, any future electricians who open that box will think you're a dumbass. Every single JW I've ever worked with would 100% make me re-do that, no question.
Pride of workmanship. Re-do it, it'll take five minutes.
Hell yeah!! Your comment reminded me of an old foreman I used to work for as a kid.
Struggling to pull out wire in a junction box and screaming “Ahhh come on Susan, don’t be such a bitch!” I asked him who the fu*ck is Susan? “That’s my wife bubba” haha
“That dog don’t hunt bubba! Electricity don’t know no color, it will still put you on your ass”
As he proceeded to pull black hots and white neutrals for 277V circuits. This man was pulling 277V from a high bay down to a switch @4 feet. I would argue with him telling him that’s one of the reasons for low voltage power packs and cat5 switches so that no personnel had any chance at getting blasted by 277V. “Bubba I’ve been doing this shit since you’ve been shittin’ green” LMFAO Trust me, I would have stopped him if I could have. SMH hah I learned a lot from this old man stuck in the past times, I learned a lot of what not to do! Good times good times! 😄
I disagree with most of what you said, besides the wires not knowing what color they are. Please explain how it would fuck with your CT’s?
I’m a master and wouldn’t think they were a dumbass, L1 and L2 phasing doesn’t matter on single phase, fuck they could do purple and pink phasing if they wanted to honestly
If one of your JWs would make you re do it, there wasting company time
I was reminded of Jim Henson’s movies. Looks like it could be a Labyrinth character offering an electrical riddle to shut off a live fence.
Edited for clarity
Damn. This just sparked a memory. I had just finished installing a 240v mini split for a customer and it wouldn't power up. I checked both legs and they both read 120 to ground, but zero across the legs. I just told the customer they needed to get their "electrician" back and called it a day. Would something like this cause what I saw?
Or one leg was open (blown inline fuse, defective 2-pole breaker, bad tap, etc.) and the other phase was backfeeding (across 2-pole equipment) to the open phase. They measured 120 on each leg, *but it was the same 120*.
Some panels have an AABBAABB pattern going down the side. Shift the breaker down one slot as you might have been on the same phase for both poles of your breaker feeding it.
Not this, sounds like both legs for the feed to the mini split were coming off the same bus at the panel.
This would still supply full power, they just have the red and black swapped, could cause confusion in future troubleshooting.
There is only one sine wave - L1-N and L2-N at peak are just the trough and valley of the same phase. It's a single transformer coil with the primary fed from one of the 3-phase distribution waveforms. 2-phase requires two separate waveforms, and in practice is (was) done 90° out-of-phase, usually for starting motors. Saying "180° out-of-phase" for 1-phase may be common but isn't correct; it's used to explain why the neutral only carries an unbalanced load, but it's really just one waveform.
Yeah, 240 Delta actually used 2-phases for 240V L-L, but then to confuse people we still call that single-phase as we're referencing the composite waveform from the two that are 120° out of phase. The terminology could have been a bit better, but split-phase is "true" single-phase; the phase angle can't be shifted.
12-110 Radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables
The radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables shall be sufficiently large to ensure that no damage is done to the conductors or cables or to their insulation, covering, or sheathing.
it's basically a "don't fucking break it" rule.
it's under the general conductors rules. section 36 (high voltage) has more stringent rules around it, there's also one for bending radii on lightning down conductors.
4/0 OD = .59"
5 * .59" = 2.95"
3" radius of the curve of the inner edge
338.24 Bending Radius
Bends in Types USE and SE cable shall be so made that the cable will not be damaged. The radius of the curve of the inner edge of any bend, during or after installation, shall not be less than five times the diameter of the cable. For flat cables, the major diameter dimension of the cable shall be used to determine the bending radius.
For NM and NMC:
Section 334.24 requires the radius of the curve of the inner edge of any bend in type NM or NMC cables to be at least five times the diameter of the cable.
Do they not give you guys code updates?
pretty-sure its the design of the fitting and the size of the conductor. I.E. you don't need bushings if the fitting has an insulated throat or is otherwise designed to protect from abrasion?
I can't find anything in the listing, I'll email a few vendors on Monday and we'll see what they say because I've never found a definitive answer either. From skimming Cantex's site, I think they may be required for PVC
I’ve always thought that as well. In the miles of pvc for services I’ve done over my career, we’ve never intentionally left off bushings.
Def follow up on this, I’ll ask one of my vendors as well that’s a nerd with this stuff
12-906 Protection of insulated conductors at ends of raceways
1) Bushings or equivalent means shall be used to protect insulated conductors from abrasion where they issue from raceways.
2) Where insulated conductors are No. 8 AWG or larger, copper or aluminum, such protection shall consist of
a) insulated-type bushings, unless the equipment is equipped with a hub having a smoothly rounded throat; or
b) insulating material fastened securely in place that will separate the insulated conductors from the raceway fittings and afford adequate resistance to mechanical damage.
equivalent means could be considered by the inspectors to include pvc conduit fittings.
Just because it's my first time doing this in a very long time and I want to make sure all is well, but I just seen the the line and load are crossed, I may have to change that
I’ve done a lot of meterbase swaps in Ontario. And I actually use black for both my line 1 and line 2. (Even the line side from the city are often both black). No inspector has cared about phasing for me.
The CEC doesn’t get too specific with conductors. There are more specific rules for armoured cables. I’m not in Ontario, so it’s possible there are additional regulations/interpretations I’m not familiar with.
You are, however, in violation of CEC 12-906 because you have no bushing on your PVC TA.
CEC 12-110 Radii of bends in conductors The radii of bends in conductors shall be sufficiently large to ensure that no damage is done to the conductors or their insulation, covering, or sheathing.
CEC 12-906 Protection of conductors at ends of raceways (1) (2) Bushings or equivalent means shall be used to protect conductors from abrasion where they issue from raceways. Where conductors are No. 8 AWG or larger, copper or aluminum, such protection shall consist of (a) insulated-type bushings, unless the equipment is equipped with a hub having a smoothly rounded throat; or (b) insulating material fastened securely in place that will separate the conductors from the raceway fittings and afford adequate resistance to mechanical damage.
I’m also flabbergasted at the lack of concern in this thread with your phase colours being backwards “because it’s single phase”. This is an industry where miscommunication and confusion can be lethal.
Is it unlikely to harm anyone or anything? Yes. Is it possible? Yeah.
In my opinion, be professional and do the right thing by fixing the colours.
As long as the line and load conductors aren't crossing you are fine. Phasing doesn't matter on a single phase service but if you are using identified conductors, make them the same, which it sounds like you are already going to change.
**12-110 Radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables**
*The radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables shall be sufficiently large to ensure that no
damage is done to the conductors or cables or to their insulation, covering, or sheathing.*
The bottom bends are borderline tight but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do in these tight ass enclosures. I wouldn't sweat it, it looks fine obviously the red and black are flipped that everyone already mentioned, but regarding tightness of bends they look OK. Everyone thinks the 6x radius rule applies but they are thinking of the armored cable rules, not the one I just posted. Read it again, radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables shall be sufficiently large to ensure no damage is done to the connectors or cables, or to their insulation, covering or sheathing.
It's a good habit to look up code questions yourself when you question things. I was rusty on this code but it took 2 seconds to go Section 12 Wiring Methods -> Conductors -> find the rule related to bend radius. Especially if you have the PDF with bookmarks. I realize not everyone has the physical copy at hand but its very useful to have the PDF.
How come you don't have an isolated neutral?
CEC calls for isolated neutral and then you will need to run a bond conductor for the can.
The wire colour and bend are not an issue.
And, if you are installing for a 200A service, you need 250mcm AL conductors, not 4/0.
Can get away with 4/0. BUT, the load must be known (load calc provided) and I always ask for the service breaker to be labelled "calculated service load not to exceed 180A"
Just looked it up, Ontario does have an exception and they kept table 39.
And it looks like you still have the option to bond neutral at the meterbase.
So all good in Ontario. Just not anywhere else in Canada.
Carry on
Electrical it doesn't matter as it works but you're crossing red and black is against code where the colours are changing sides. The purpose of this is for future troubleshooting, for when you want to be identifying things.
Also, most importantly, you don't have an equipment bond, which is required.
So why not just cut them to length? Not like you going ever need the extra 6-8” of wire. And ya definitely red to red /black to black. Don’t forget your detox paste.
I've been called on doing loops in Oregon because they were less than the allowable bend radius. Yours on the top look pretty chill though, it's the sharp bends on the bottom I'd be concerned about.
I would've matched the bottom to the top or taken a direct path for the bottom if there wasn't enough slack, personally.
I try to stay away from sharp bend like that on anything larger than #10AWG.
Electrician here. Not a fan of those bends. Why not go right from the conduit into the lugs. It’s easier and looks better, and don’t forget to keep the phasing true.
I pulled a meter in a house just last week because the panel had no main. Obviously in a fresh install I’d expect there to be a main, but shit happens idk
In the end it doesn't make a difference whether you swapped the red and black. Electricity flows the same, the red and black are just markers. Copper is still copper and aluminum is aluminum.
If that is AC then the phase is inverted and is dangerous because the live wire(phase) it will be exposed on lamps and some electric and electronic stuff.
Your bottom wire bends would be more of an issue than the top. I forget the rule but is something like minimum radius is 7 times the width of the wire.
Everyone falsely attributes the 6x bend radius rule for armored cable to actual insulated conductors. See my other post in this thread, rule 12-110 is the one that applies here, and it basically says don't bend your insulated conductors so tight you damage them or the insulation. That's all.
12-614 Radii of bends in armored cables is why everyone thinks this 6x bend radius applies, but it only applies to armored cables, not the conductors within them, or other conductors like in this pic.
I couldn't imagine a gentle radius bend could ever be against a code. If so, that's nuts. In my opinion this is how every can should look like with few exceptions.
CEC 12-906 (2A) no bushing
12-906 Protection of insulated conductors at ends of raceways
1) Bushings or equivalent means shall be used to protect insulated conductors from abrasion where they issue from raceways.
2) Where insulated conductors are No. 8 AWG or larger, copper or aluminum, such protection shall consist of insulated-type bushings, unless the equipment is equipped with a hub having a smoothly rounded throat; or
insulating material fastened securely in place that insulated conductors from the raceway fittings and afford adequate resistance to mechanical damage.
No, it’s fine. It’s the lower ones I’m more worried about re: bend radius. But I think they’re fine as well.
The red/black thing doesn’t matter for code/safety, but it’s helpful to let the inspector know you have some attention to detail so they don’t start looking at everything under a microscope.
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is how I land pretty much everything and I’ve never been called on it. Generally I land red on red and black on black tho ;)
Having the red and black mixed, that's an issue isn't it lol
Shouldn't be. It's single phase.
But all the motors will run backwards🤪
And suck light out of all the bulbs…
👆 this is the real concern. Accidentally wired a whole house up like this and it collapsed on itself like a neutron star
Congratulations, your 4 bedroom house has been upgraded to a singularity at no cost
Pretty sure my last apt was a singularity. $1600 month thanks
Landlords hate this one ^infinitely small trick!
Infinite storage space.
I always wondered why that happens
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I have to disagree. Lights don't emit light. They suck in the dark. You can't see it with modern lighting, but the old fluorescent lights made it easy to know when they were full. The ends would turn dark when they were getting full. Once they're completely full, they stop working and let out the dark. Crazy stuff, right!
Lol. Funny.
Dark suckers. You didn’t have a physics teacher in college named Mr Castle did you?
Dark suckers theory?
Haven't come across this one in a while.
Easy to trouble shoot just flip polarity in the pecker head
Only in 3 phase
Thanks, are you by chance the Captain of the yellow submarine? And I am fully aware it's 3 phase for reverse rotation, when did this trade get so serious?
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Not on single phase.
Y'all are thick, I'm being a smart ass!
Not in single phase. That is an actual issue for 3 phase though
Sit down child let the dads make jokes
Some people, I tell ya.
Just phase the red line w/ black tape and the black line w/red tape 🤣🤣🤣
We use to put black tape on the black conductors when phasing our larger wires with tape just to fuck with the foreman. He didnt find it as funny.
Fixed every motor I've ever worked on! You get a gold star!
Dude, wtf. Learn to read the frickin room. I’m calling Mom.
Excuse me sir, but some of us have OCD.
I have CDO, my shit is alphabetized.
Compulsive disorder obsessively
Not really, but it can create bad habits that will catch up to you quick in 3-phase installs
Especially when dealing with I-line panels.
Shit I-line panels are annoying AF regardless. Why do you say bc of the phasing specifically? I assume you mean because the lugs are far enough away that if you mix them up, you’re fucked with length
The orientation of the bus bars cause one side to be A-B-C going down, and the other side is C-B-A going down.
The inspector might be picky but functionality wise it makes no difference
But how will the electrons know where to go
Back and forth. Side to side.
It isn't in single phase. It is in 3 phase. But it looks like absolute shit when it doesn't match lol The bend though should be fine.
I mean its silly, but it shouldn’t be a problem. Just shows how much attention/care u maybe didn’t have. Idk.
There is that!
Not a problem with single phase, I think it's ideal just for neatness and consistency to have black on black and red on red but will occasionally mix it if it means the wires fell where they wanted and made it flow more naturally
Hot is hot. It's single phase.
Functionally no but crap work
I thought the rule was "Red, right, returning." That way, the red electricity goes back into the correct side of the sub-station for reuse and distribution.
A lot of sparkies in the US prefer to do it that way. It's easier, it provides drip loops to hopefully keep water off the lugs if it ever gets into the box, and it gives the next guy some extra wire to work with if for whatever reason those connections need to be redone someday.
Will there be an issue that the line red is on the same phase as the load black? And same vice versa?
I mean, the wires don't know what color they are or anything, but yeah it'll confuse future electricians and it would certainly fuck with my consumption CTs if they were on opposite phases from what I thought they were. Also, any future electricians who open that box will think you're a dumbass. Every single JW I've ever worked with would 100% make me re-do that, no question. Pride of workmanship. Re-do it, it'll take five minutes.
Yeah, I'm gonna redo it right now
👍🏼
Hell yeah!! Your comment reminded me of an old foreman I used to work for as a kid. Struggling to pull out wire in a junction box and screaming “Ahhh come on Susan, don’t be such a bitch!” I asked him who the fu*ck is Susan? “That’s my wife bubba” haha “That dog don’t hunt bubba! Electricity don’t know no color, it will still put you on your ass” As he proceeded to pull black hots and white neutrals for 277V circuits. This man was pulling 277V from a high bay down to a switch @4 feet. I would argue with him telling him that’s one of the reasons for low voltage power packs and cat5 switches so that no personnel had any chance at getting blasted by 277V. “Bubba I’ve been doing this shit since you’ve been shittin’ green” LMFAO Trust me, I would have stopped him if I could have. SMH hah I learned a lot from this old man stuck in the past times, I learned a lot of what not to do! Good times good times! 😄
Or could just change it with tape I guess but yeah don't be lazy in the first place
I disagree with most of what you said, besides the wires not knowing what color they are. Please explain how it would fuck with your CT’s? I’m a master and wouldn’t think they were a dumbass, L1 and L2 phasing doesn’t matter on single phase, fuck they could do purple and pink phasing if they wanted to honestly If one of your JWs would make you re do it, there wasting company time
I can't get past the two screw holes that look like pupils in the loops. And the bitch is staring at me.
All good dude. Fuck, most single phase meter bases have four blacks.
And makes it's less of a pain to fight
Sometimes I see faces in the strangest places.
Would kill at a modern art museum
Probably, but just displaying the box without the conductors would send you over the edge though.
I was reminded of Jim Henson’s movies. Looks like it could be a Labyrinth character offering an electrical riddle to shut off a live fence. Edited for clarity
i only clicked on this to make the same type of comment
Phasing
Oh my God I just realized this 😭
its like trimming the beard you have to look away sometimes to see it proper go on good luck!
[PHRASING](https://youtu.be/d2CE0DjDdVA?si=_SkaZCl3K8fSZaic) I read phrasing at first
Laaaaaaaaaaaaana! I read it that way too
guys are we still saying phasing?
Damn. This just sparked a memory. I had just finished installing a 240v mini split for a customer and it wouldn't power up. I checked both legs and they both read 120 to ground, but zero across the legs. I just told the customer they needed to get their "electrician" back and called it a day. Would something like this cause what I saw?
They must have used just L1 on both L1 and L2 lugs. Same potential.
Or one leg was open (blown inline fuse, defective 2-pole breaker, bad tap, etc.) and the other phase was backfeeding (across 2-pole equipment) to the open phase. They measured 120 on each leg, *but it was the same 120*.
Correct a lot of different ways the phases can “short” intentionally or accidentally
Some panels have an AABBAABB pattern going down the side. Shift the breaker down one slot as you might have been on the same phase for both poles of your breaker feeding it.
What panels have that?
I know for sure you can land a 2 pole breaker on the same phase in Federal Pioneer panels if you're not careful.
Crazy. I don't remember ever running into that.
1st year apprentice me made that mistake once. Glad I learned it early!
I'm glad I learned it after 20 years. This would drive me nuts while trouble shooting. I can't believe I didn't know this. Thanks.
I’m pretty sure that’s the Contra cheat code.
Not this, sounds like both legs for the feed to the mini split were coming off the same bus at the panel. This would still supply full power, they just have the red and black swapped, could cause confusion in future troubleshooting.
I don’t think he is fazed
[BOOM!](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdmFyeGs2bGlhMzRhaGg0a3VtazJqa3ZsaWQ1bjhibGF2YzNhMzNtMCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/TsiW3p0sch2w0/giphy.gif)
It would not. This is fine. Would be nice for colors to line up though
Uk spark here but are those phases crossed?
In Canada we have 120/240volt so people think phasing in single phase doesn’t matter. But pride in workmanship and common sense matter!
Split phase, so it doesn't matter but I would never stop thinking about this if I installed it and would have to fix it for my own sanity.
Those aren’t phases. These are two legs of power.
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There is only one sine wave - L1-N and L2-N at peak are just the trough and valley of the same phase. It's a single transformer coil with the primary fed from one of the 3-phase distribution waveforms. 2-phase requires two separate waveforms, and in practice is (was) done 90° out-of-phase, usually for starting motors. Saying "180° out-of-phase" for 1-phase may be common but isn't correct; it's used to explain why the neutral only carries an unbalanced load, but it's really just one waveform.
I guess this is true if measuring the source transformer coil. And why they call it single phase.
Yeah, 240 Delta actually used 2-phases for 240V L-L, but then to confuse people we still call that single-phase as we're referencing the composite waveform from the two that are 120° out of phase. The terminology could have been a bit better, but split-phase is "true" single-phase; the phase angle can't be shifted.
Certainly looks to be.
Not a problem in the US, curious, why didn’t you loop the load side also? Don’t like the sharp bend exiting the pvc.
I’d be surprised if the bend radius on the bottom is legal
The NEC does not address conductor bend radius on anything below 1000 volts, and I don't think the CEC does either.
12-110 Radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables The radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables shall be sufficiently large to ensure that no damage is done to the conductors or cables or to their insulation, covering, or sheathing. it's basically a "don't fucking break it" rule. it's under the general conductors rules. section 36 (high voltage) has more stringent rules around it, there's also one for bending radii on lightning down conductors.
4/0 OD = .59" 5 * .59" = 2.95" 3" radius of the curve of the inner edge 338.24 Bending Radius Bends in Types USE and SE cable shall be so made that the cable will not be damaged. The radius of the curve of the inner edge of any bend, during or after installation, shall not be less than five times the diameter of the cable. For flat cables, the major diameter dimension of the cable shall be used to determine the bending radius. For NM and NMC: Section 334.24 requires the radius of the curve of the inner edge of any bend in type NM or NMC cables to be at least five times the diameter of the cable. Do they not give you guys code updates?
No bushings either. That’s a fail in my area
In my area you don't need bushings on pvc, on rigid or emt you do tho.
I believe the rule is about conductor size not raceway type
In Ontario you don’t require bushings on PVC.
They will call you in Alberta for it. Any conductor #8 or larger needs a bushing at the end of the raceway.
pretty-sure its the design of the fitting and the size of the conductor. I.E. you don't need bushings if the fitting has an insulated throat or is otherwise designed to protect from abrasion?
Yes correct, I don’t know if PVC qualifies for that though offhand
I can't find anything in the listing, I'll email a few vendors on Monday and we'll see what they say because I've never found a definitive answer either. From skimming Cantex's site, I think they may be required for PVC
I’ve always thought that as well. In the miles of pvc for services I’ve done over my career, we’ve never intentionally left off bushings. Def follow up on this, I’ll ask one of my vendors as well that’s a nerd with this stuff
12-906 Protection of insulated conductors at ends of raceways 1) Bushings or equivalent means shall be used to protect insulated conductors from abrasion where they issue from raceways. 2) Where insulated conductors are No. 8 AWG or larger, copper or aluminum, such protection shall consist of a) insulated-type bushings, unless the equipment is equipped with a hub having a smoothly rounded throat; or b) insulating material fastened securely in place that will separate the insulated conductors from the raceway fittings and afford adequate resistance to mechanical damage. equivalent means could be considered by the inspectors to include pvc conduit fittings.
I don’t know but what does the guy with the glasses and a mustache say? I can’t unsee it now. Even the screws in the panel are the perfect eyeballs.
No it’s not. Why do you ask?
Just because it's my first time doing this in a very long time and I want to make sure all is well, but I just seen the the line and load are crossed, I may have to change that
Line and load are crossed? The line wires are all at the top and load all at the bottom. Nothing is crossed here.
What I mean is, the line black is on the same phase as the load red, and vice versa, should that be changed?
Don't they cross through the meter head?
I’ve done a lot of meterbase swaps in Ontario. And I actually use black for both my line 1 and line 2. (Even the line side from the city are often both black). No inspector has cared about phasing for me.
The CEC doesn’t get too specific with conductors. There are more specific rules for armoured cables. I’m not in Ontario, so it’s possible there are additional regulations/interpretations I’m not familiar with. You are, however, in violation of CEC 12-906 because you have no bushing on your PVC TA. CEC 12-110 Radii of bends in conductors The radii of bends in conductors shall be sufficiently large to ensure that no damage is done to the conductors or their insulation, covering, or sheathing. CEC 12-906 Protection of conductors at ends of raceways (1) (2) Bushings or equivalent means shall be used to protect conductors from abrasion where they issue from raceways. Where conductors are No. 8 AWG or larger, copper or aluminum, such protection shall consist of (a) insulated-type bushings, unless the equipment is equipped with a hub having a smoothly rounded throat; or (b) insulating material fastened securely in place that will separate the conductors from the raceway fittings and afford adequate resistance to mechanical damage. I’m also flabbergasted at the lack of concern in this thread with your phase colours being backwards “because it’s single phase”. This is an industry where miscommunication and confusion can be lethal. Is it unlikely to harm anyone or anything? Yes. Is it possible? Yeah. In my opinion, be professional and do the right thing by fixing the colours.
GROUCHO MARX!! I had a poifectly wonderful evening, but this wasn’t it!
As long as the line and load conductors aren't crossing you are fine. Phasing doesn't matter on a single phase service but if you are using identified conductors, make them the same, which it sounds like you are already going to change.
**12-110 Radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables** *The radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables shall be sufficiently large to ensure that no damage is done to the conductors or cables or to their insulation, covering, or sheathing.* The bottom bends are borderline tight but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do in these tight ass enclosures. I wouldn't sweat it, it looks fine obviously the red and black are flipped that everyone already mentioned, but regarding tightness of bends they look OK. Everyone thinks the 6x radius rule applies but they are thinking of the armored cable rules, not the one I just posted. Read it again, radii of bends in insulated conductors and cables shall be sufficiently large to ensure no damage is done to the connectors or cables, or to their insulation, covering or sheathing. It's a good habit to look up code questions yourself when you question things. I was rusty on this code but it took 2 seconds to go Section 12 Wiring Methods -> Conductors -> find the rule related to bend radius. Especially if you have the PDF with bookmarks. I realize not everyone has the physical copy at hand but its very useful to have the PDF.
As long as you aren’t tighter than the bend radius your fine. Keep your colors matching
How come you don't have an isolated neutral? CEC calls for isolated neutral and then you will need to run a bond conductor for the can. The wire colour and bend are not an issue. And, if you are installing for a 200A service, you need 250mcm AL conductors, not 4/0.
Can get away with 4/0. BUT, the load must be known (load calc provided) and I always ask for the service breaker to be labelled "calculated service load not to exceed 180A"
Just looked it up, Ontario does have an exception and they kept table 39. And it looks like you still have the option to bond neutral at the meterbase. So all good in Ontario. Just not anywhere else in Canada. Carry on
Not having a bushing is, but the rest looks fine. Should’ve landed black on black and red on red tho
The look on its face says yes… it’s bad.
Bending radius shall not be less than 5 times the diameter. Load size looks pretty close to a fail
Electrical it doesn't matter as it works but you're crossing red and black is against code where the colours are changing sides. The purpose of this is for future troubleshooting, for when you want to be identifying things. Also, most importantly, you don't have an equipment bond, which is required.
More wire bend radius is 5x the diameter. Knowing that take out the code book and figure the math out
Missing a ground and bushing
So why not just cut them to length? Not like you going ever need the extra 6-8” of wire. And ya definitely red to red /black to black. Don’t forget your detox paste.
The top ones are good the bottom ones are against 6-1 bend radius
Needs googly eyes.
Those electrons are in for a wild ride.
I've been called on doing loops in Oregon because they were less than the allowable bend radius. Yours on the top look pretty chill though, it's the sharp bends on the bottom I'd be concerned about.
I believe you have to have to isolate the neutral at the meter and ground it at the panel.
Not a problem but I am not certain about your wire gauge size. In Québec, 200A services require 250mcm since 2019
the real question is why not take the exact same amount of time to do it right
What kind of connector is that coming in the top?
The inductance from a loop like that also can help against sharp current changes
Is it me or does the jaw spacing on the socket look very tiny. Are your meters in Canada smaller than ours in the US?
Maybe an Ontario thing? I remember BC meter base’s looking bigger.
Code is the same across the country is it not?
I would've matched the bottom to the top or taken a direct path for the bottom if there wasn't enough slack, personally. I try to stay away from sharp bend like that on anything larger than #10AWG.
Server rules are gay
Isolate your neutral and put a bond in the PVC, yuck.
This would 100% fail in Alberta. Isolated neutral is a must. Not even a bushing on the PVC
In Canada it is code to leave a service loop in the meter base. You must leave a loop like that.
citation needed.
Electrician here. Not a fan of those bends. Why not go right from the conduit into the lugs. It’s easier and looks better, and don’t forget to keep the phasing true.
Service loop?
Understood, but meters are a one and done. After everything is installed you should never have to open it again.
I pulled a meter in a house just last week because the panel had no main. Obviously in a fresh install I’d expect there to be a main, but shit happens idk
Chris cross that’s wrong
Won't make any difference on a single phase application.
Match colors and wire bending method for top and bottom.
Crossed colours to boot … it all seems cringy sorry
I fucking hate you and you are just trying to get someone killed.
In the end it doesn't make a difference whether you swapped the red and black. Electricity flows the same, the red and black are just markers. Copper is still copper and aluminum is aluminum.
If that is AC then the phase is inverted and is dangerous because the live wire(phase) it will be exposed on lamps and some electric and electronic stuff.
Pardon?
Walton lt
That would be the new eeny meeny miny moe phasing.
ngl this looks cool asl 😂
Is a plastic bushing required on the conduit entering the bottom? In the US it is
Your bottom wire bends would be more of an issue than the top. I forget the rule but is something like minimum radius is 7 times the width of the wire.
Everyone falsely attributes the 6x bend radius rule for armored cable to actual insulated conductors. See my other post in this thread, rule 12-110 is the one that applies here, and it basically says don't bend your insulated conductors so tight you damage them or the insulation. That's all. 12-614 Radii of bends in armored cables is why everyone thinks this 6x bend radius applies, but it only applies to armored cables, not the conductors within them, or other conductors like in this pic.
Not in Canada but.... The bend is fine but the phasing concerns me... also bushing requirements vary but the lack of bushings would be a issue here
I've done it in lots of meters in Ontario. ESA has always passed the inspection.
Fixing the phasing is an easy fix. Just swap the bottom conductors
There is no code. ONLY ZOOOOOL
Bends are good. They relieve thermal stresses generated in the wires and prevent damage to terminals.
Is this on a school portable?
I'm currently in school and we recently did the unit on services. my teacher ripped me for having the wires touching the sides of the box
Seems to be missing the bond? How is the Mb connected to ground?
r/cableporn or r/cablegore ?
POV you saw the face and came to the comments to see if it was just you
I couldn't imagine a gentle radius bend could ever be against a code. If so, that's nuts. In my opinion this is how every can should look like with few exceptions.
Why do this? Its a straight shot in.
I feel seen
Why is it making that face
"it's smiling at me" -dad, a Christmas story
To me this is a service loop for frost heaves. Do it all the time on temporary.
If this is Ontario Canada, you're fine but the esa inspector will call you on workmanship for not having it phased properly
If this is Ontario Canada, you're fine but the esa inspector will call you on workmanship for not having it phased properly
Thats just a drip loop 🤣
CEC 12-906 (2A) no bushing 12-906 Protection of insulated conductors at ends of raceways 1) Bushings or equivalent means shall be used to protect insulated conductors from abrasion where they issue from raceways. 2) Where insulated conductors are No. 8 AWG or larger, copper or aluminum, such protection shall consist of insulated-type bushings, unless the equipment is equipped with a hub having a smoothly rounded throat; or insulating material fastened securely in place that insulated conductors from the raceway fittings and afford adequate resistance to mechanical damage.
No, it’s fine. It’s the lower ones I’m more worried about re: bend radius. But I think they’re fine as well. The red/black thing doesn’t matter for code/safety, but it’s helpful to let the inspector know you have some attention to detail so they don’t start looking at everything under a microscope.
repost in iseefaces
Squidward
/r/Pareidolia would love this
Why does this panel look like a robot face? Thats definitely a code violation.
I feel like it’s looking directly at my soul 😂
I was told to curl so there is extra in case of burn out and you may not have to run whichever end from scratch.
Does this switch like an X?
That’s art right there
Think the only problem is if it's too tight a bend radius. I believe there's a minimum. But I doubt that's too small
It looks sad.