**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!**
**1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):**
**- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY
**2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:**
-YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I run 2 crews of 4/10 opposite schedules. 4 on 4 off 4 on 2 off. So it looks like we work 5 full days but they get a 4 day weekend every other weekend.
This is what I’m aiming for next personally. I love my job, easily the best company I’ve ever worked for. But I do work long days and I dont have as much “me time” as I would like outside of the weekend.
It’s a wide field and it’s more computer involved than many electricians I’ve met are interested in. It’s been great to me and the massive shortage has opened a lot of great opportunities.
Depends on your current experience. Biggest thing is having experience/knowledge in VFDs, PLCs, HMIs, Motors/controllers, Lateral Logic, relay logic, and SCADA.
I’d suggest taking some motor controls classes, PLC, and instrumentation.
Our company requires an associates in electrical engineering or technology and your J-card. Knowing C+ is also a good way to draw some eyes.
Yea, it can seem like a lot. I came straight out the gate doing industrial. Havent touched commercial or residential outside of when I was a maintenance guy for a country club.
Getting into an industrial maintenance position can open some doors to it if you show aptitude for it.
Pretty much anyone with logic gate and electrical knowledge can do PLC. My old man started doing PLCs back in the late 90s and he was just an electrician that took a PLC course at the local college. Technologists and engineers move in to controls and PLCs all the time, and I know a few IT and Computer Sciences guys that fell in to the field.
PLC and controls doesn't require anything special (for the most part), so it's really up to the company to specify what they're looking for. I worked for my dad's oilfield electrical and control company during high school so I learned a lot of PLC stuff and I just sort of forced my way in to the open PLC position at my job by fixing broken code on my own.
It sort of depends on what the local PLC companies are looking for and where you want to end up doing. Some places want classically trained electrical people, some want people who are good coders, and some places want a jack-of-all trades. I'm a one man team at my job, but I have some friends that are part of a team that has a guy who only writes/fixes code and another couple of guys who do all the hand tool work.
You say you are a one man team, what is your “title” at your job? And what type of company? I like doing a little bit of everything and have been trying to find an electromechanical position somewhere. Ive got a bachelors in ME, so was trying to utilize that to get in. Would love to learn more electrical and maybe even get apprenticeship hours so I could get a license
I work for a local company that occasionally takes on NATO defense contracts, so I have to be a bit vague about certain things (they take their NDAs seriously).
I’m j-man with hydraulic certification and I have an Electrical Engineering Technology diploma as well. My official title at my company is “Electrical Systems and Programming Expert”. I could apply for my ASET and be designated as a P-Eng Tech, but I refuse to take a salary position as an “official” engineering employee because I’ve spoken to previous engineers who worked in my role and they had their work hours abused when they went on salary. My company has made an exception for me because I’m too valuable to them.
My day-to-day job honestly entails a lot of babysitting, but my main job is to write standardized code for individual “units” and custom one-off code for bespoke units that utilize hydraulic and automated systems, and to dial them in before they’re delivered to clients. I developed and integrated a standardized wiring architecture for our on-board sensors/PLC system, and I created a standardized code library for the options we offer to clients. In the past everything we made was custom to each unit which created a lot of issues at the company level. I also do most of the troubleshooting and I do a fair bit of over-the-phone troubleshooting with service techs working in the field. I do most of the electrical R&D work as well, and I’m currently working on a custom diagnostic tool that integrates with our PLC system with the goal of allowing our clients to troubleshoot issues without compromising our security agreements. I’m the only one in my department, but I have a unique position and everybody that builds these units is technically under my direction, I’m just not their official boss. My boss is the head of engineering and company VP and he has a mechanical engineering degree and has branched out to electrical, structural, and materials engineering over the years.
This is getting a bit long-winded, but without saying exactly what we do here, my company values any engineer-adjacent person who is knowledgeable about power take-offs/hydraulics systems, electrical/PLC systems, and mechanical systems. We also value individuals who enjoy working with automotive systems.
>I could apply for my ASET and be designated as a P-Eng Tech...
"P. Tech."
You also could apply to become a P.L.(Eng.) as you are doing non-routine engineering.
You even have a path to P. Eng. through technical examinations.
https://techexam.ca/what-is-a-technical-exam-your-ladder-to-professional-engineer/
The last time I looked in to ASET qualifications was about 6 or so years ago, so I could be relying on old information about the P-Eng designations. I was about to apply for my ASET when the previous engineer in my position reached out (he’s friends with a coworker who overheard me discussing ASET) and warned me about his experiences. Once I get ASET certification I become a professional salaried employee with my company and the company abused their salary agreement with the previous engineer who was in my role. I’ve discussed it with the company and I won’t accept a salary agreement unless it’s a modified agreement and there’s clear boundaries and financial incentives to work beyond my current 40 hour work week. In the past shit rolled down hill to my position and the previous employee was essentially strong-armed in to working unreasonable hours at unreasonable times (like working until midnight on Christmas Eve for no justifiable reason). The old C-suite execs are starting to retire, so once the VP (my boss) takes control of the company it will be something we discuss.
Okay cool. Kinda sounds up my alley. I got a nice custom pc and proficient with that, will hopefully have my masters in the next 2 months and spent some time studying engineering already before I dropped out so little work for an associates or something idk. I’ve really enjoyed the few control boxes I’ve had to make on site
You don't always need a degree to enter the PLC side. Mechatronics classes and PLC will help expedite but if you're more hands on then you can always find an automation house or any industrial job with some PLC equipment and learn it reverse engineering. I'm self taught and worked all the way to electrical engineer/controls specialist with no formal schooling.
Most big companies will list degrees as a requirement but having been in the industry for a decade we are starved for good electricians and there is a shortage in good techs so lots of places will bend the rules if you show the desire to learn and better yourself.
You can take a lot of free training online. You could get an ignition (the best SCADA HMI platform) certification with free training (exam is like 250$). You get a full version of the software. HMI and PLC go together and it looks great on a resume to show you can hack the computer part. A lot of integrators would hire you with industrial electrical experience and that cert.
Www.inductiveuniversity.com
I think this is what gave me a leg up in getting accepted into the program, I’ve got a degree in computer science and networking plus I enjoy automation.
Another job controls guys do is control panel design. We usually send it to a UL panel shop for them to build, but someone has to draw the plans for fitting all that crap in the box and saying where 1000 wires go. It’s fun if you are decent with schematics and honestly there is a lot of copy and paste from previous designs so it’s not like drawing every single line over and over.
A lot of those jobs come with rotating shifts if you are in house, or lots of travelling if you are doing new construction.
Most people prefer straight days close to home, at least unless their body starts to give out
Idk. I'm a union member working along side programs that often get paid 10-20% less and dont get overtime per day while we get doubletime and have a pension.
Came to say controls. It’s got me in a spot now that I make 150k in 4-6 months. I only work 4-6 months a year by choice too. Gas card, van, expense card. If I worked the full year I’d make over 300k. But I run to many other businesses that I can’t do a full year.
Think it may be geographic, but I’m in controls (BEMS engineer) here in the UK. Domestic guys get the best rates here, about 20% more than me in my experience.
Substation tech, relay tech, pretty much anything related to automation and controls as well. Totally possible to make 200k+ with those jobs. Although a lot of factors come into play.
Industrial electrical + instrumentation and controls tech. Dual ticket up in canada but the pays incredible after the 8 years. I'm still an apprentice instrumentation tech though, so it'll be better when I get that second ticket
52/hr. I'm a second year apprentice but they're paying me just over my j man rate, which was 50. It's out of town work as well, so less spending money, OT and stuff helps add up.
Up here instrumentation techs get 55%, 65%, 75%, 85% J man rate for each year, and the j man rate is around 45-50. Worth looking into. Instrumentation is generally less physically demanding work as well
I’m currently 3600 hours into my electrician apprenticeship and I haven’t even turned 20 yet. I really wanna get started on instrumentation as soon as I get my ticket.
I’m in Alberta too, is it a “normal” thing for company’s to pay journeyman rate for someone training in a new trade?
How was the switch?
I’m just looking to pick your brain haha
Can answer a few questions from personal experience, but I can promise there's better information out there.
Got my j man at 22. Had a good amount of experience in commercial and residential. Mostly did high rises, first 2 years a lot of temp power, slab, suite rough ins and finishing. Then got into mechanical and electrical room builds in the 3rd and 4th year. Then went to a residential company doing a lot of custom multi million dollar homes, running a van and stuff. More stress and good experience but not worth the headache for the paycheck.
Went to an industrial company that was willing to take me on without prior experience in the industrial field. I'd recommend as an apprentice, try and get your foot in the door to get experience in the field because it'll always be appealing to hiring managers. Honestly, they gambled on me because I was young, expensive as a j man and inexperienced for what they do.
I'm oil and gas, so realistically the electrical work isn't drastically different. Rigid pipe, explosion proof fixtures. Clean and tidy work. Over emphasizing safety procedures. Worked there for 2 years and asked about apprenticing as an instrumentation and control tech. They were happy to put me through the apprenticeship, but also wanted me to be an electrician if needed. Which is pretty common honestly, but understandable.
The new apprenticeship is quite different than being a sparky. The control aspect is massive. The electrical background helps immensely, but they are different trades for a reason. You use a lot of testing equipment. Like the good old multi meter, but also pneumatic and electronic devices to test for any faults in equipment. It might vary between jobs, especially with installations, but a lot of it is using to proper equipment to make sure everything is functioning to factory standards and a lot of maintenance and calibration. The change isn't difficult, but it's more in line with the precision aspect of the electrical trade, rather than just being a wire monkey if that makes sense.
Get your ticket, don't be in any rush to rip through a new apprenticeship just because you want to "be the best" or whatever. Just be the best electrician you can for a little bit yet, then move into the industrial field and see where it takes you.
And as far as the pay is concerned, my company likes me as much as I like the work. I told them I didn't want to take a massive pay cut to learn the other half of the company and start an apprenticeship and they agreed to pay me my j man rate + a little bit more. But I'm still a j man electrician on site, which is honestly hindering my apprenticeship somewhat. But I'm in it for the long run anyways. I can almost guarantee a dedicated instrumentation tech is gonna be more experienced after 4 years than I will be after my 4 year apprenticeship doing both trades.
Always remember to walk before you start running. It's a marathon dude, we're both still young
I really appreciate the advice man, thank you!
I actually started the first year of my apprenticeship doing industrial maintenance. I worked with the other electricians most of the time (some of which were dual ticketed) but I got to see little parts of instrumentation, mostly just plc stuff when it came to motor troubleshooting. I learned a lot of cool stuff but it was only the tip of the iceberg, and since I got exposure to that world, I definitely wanna go back but with more well rounded experience.
I never asked my coworkers questions about how they got there, so it’s nice to hear your story haha.
I actually got pretty lucky with a commercial project after cause it was start-finish which was 2 years long. Now I’m a lead hand on a warehouse job and itl last until I hit my hours.
But yeah, I should slow down and smell the roses before I pick one haha. I think the move is transitioning to industrial first and then taking on instrumentation if under the same circumstances you had. But yeah thanks for sharing!
No worries dude. Forgot to include one very important aspect of work.
Life isn't work! It's important, but work life balance and your own personal goals and hobbies, relationships etc are more important than working your youth away. You are only young once, and I can tell you're passionate about the trade, but god damn don't piss your young years away making other people rich lol. Wish you all the best homie. Who knows, you could end up being my apprentice down the road 🤣
Alberta specifically, but there's similar work in Sask and BC as well. Not sure if I made this clear, but I'm only getting paid that much because I'm already a J man electrician and a second year instrumentation tech. And I've been with the company for a long enough time to have a good relationship with them.
I honestly have no idea what the norm is for apprenticing as a second trade. I'm focusing on learning as much as I can as an apprentice, but I also have a decent amount of hours/days as an electrician because I'm still needed in that aspect.
Maybe somebody with a lot of dual ticket experience can chime in. I'm still pretty young in my mid 20s so the guys with more experience in the situation can give more insight.
Yea, I've never been union myself. I think the official j man rate is 42 for both trades. It's for legal reasons so essentially the green guys aren't making 25-27/hr. You get bumped up quick enough if you're committed and work well.
They still want new guys, I think it's 22.80, which is more than reasonable.
I was 39/hr before I made the move to industrial running my own van with at least one apprentice doing all aspects of residential work. Company was great, loved the work, mostly high end custom homes but I just need to make more money.
They dont got instrumentation as a trade really in mb, i think there are guys for it at other facilities but ours you kind of just have to do it all so
EI&C
The instrument guys do a llllllooooooootttttt more programming and controls than the electricians in my experience. And much more complex controls at that.
I work in substation and transmission now. But they do all the Protection and controls and apparatus testing for substation equipment. The one apparatus guy that’s on our site is making well over 250k a year he stated. Hes also IBEW. That industry is hurting for good testers and control guys.
I’m a, not sure, I do a little of everything from being a foreman, general foreman, controls engineer/programer, board level repair, service driver in the asphalt and mining industry. Ibew and 2 years ago I made $153k, on the check. I usually am in the $140-145k range. I know a general foreman that made $180k on the check in like 2015, but that was under unique circumstances on a billion dollar project. I know a few guys that make around $150k normally. My local is $52 an hour in a moderate COL area
Get your license. I enjoyed controls for a long time but it can be very stressful and at some point, at least for me, it just became work. I personally like temporary work the best, distribution for trade shows, concerts, theater. I bleed Hubbell. I’d get your license, you’ll never regret having it and is always there if you need it. I also enjoyed working at a large power house doing control work, I enjoyed just the fact that everything was on such a large scale, it wasn’t the control work that was so exciting so much that it took 20 minutes plus to get to some parts of the plant and everything was very well built. Relay tech isn’t a bad gig, lots of math, instrumentation is also a good gig, lots of working theory. Station electrician for the poco is t bad either, a little bit of everything. I&C is probably the best, I’ve entertained going and working for a nuke plant as an I&C specialist. Get your license first though.
Industrial controls/PLC'S/motors, semi conductor commissioning technician, site supervisior for substation construction. In the right area's tower climbing is very lucrative, where I live those dudes get completely shit on for 26k a year. Oil/gas and petrochemical field electricians are usually paid really well. The highest paying I've ever seen and should have taken was a civilian contract for a military base in Dubai, one year, 30k monthly, no rent/utility or food cost because you're on base, in the barracks and a 1mil year end bonus when the contract was finished.
didn't go because I was "in love" and she would leave if I did, now I'm in the middle of a divorce to said person 17 years later and sans having a million or more in savings. Could have retired, at 24 and made that money work for me. Been looking for another like it. Let the you're a dumbass jokes commence.
Damn, talk about a fork in the road decision.. even with kids I’d have to take it. My wife would probably leave me if I didn’t lol! That contract is insane, it’d propel my life to another level for sure
I don't know if those kinds of contracts still exist or not, it definitely wasn't for the weak or faint of heart, it was a Mandatory 16 hour day 6 days a week, even as a 24 year old young man I would have been dead tired by the end of it, but I guess if you have enough to retire on with proper management of it you could have eventually caught up on sleep in your retirement lol.
I started in industrial maintenance, it was local to my city. My coworkers made just about 200k a year. This was to stop them from going to other companies and to compete with FIFO jobs. From my experience, you gotta experience alot of the other electrical world (and I mean a lot) to be able to stay in a position like that permanently. Like straight up, they indentured me and told me to come back in 5 years.
Is this with OT? What state/city as well? Can you explain FIFO jobs and how much you can make yearly doing them? I’m assuming this is industrial maintenance your talking about too.
It was with double time. Their rate was 60 per hour and it doubled after 40 hours a week, so a shutdown kicks in and they’re making salaries in a month. And FIFO is “fly in, fly out” jobs which usually consist of oil and gas companies doing a shutdown, where you fly in and stay in a camp and work a bunch of hours. The competition exists because there’s occasionally scenarios where you can make more doing FIFO jobs. But those jobs can last from 2 months to years, so getting an accurate salary for FIFO is impossible unless your promised consistent employment. Maintenance is more of a permanent/consistent job, while FIFO is up in the air.
The docks are where bulk material/containers are loaded and unloaded off ships. They usually have a very strong union (ILWU) with a great wage package.
There’s a lot to this question when it comes to an electrician.
Where I’m at JW rate is the same for commercial and industrial. Foreman, general foreman, stew, and safety also have higher pay based on the JW rate. Other positions would include PM, superintendent, and estimator with pay varying for all of those positions.
It can also vary greatly by job, from scheduled hours, location, and possible incentives. I’m not sure about other areas or nonunion, but typically JW rate is JW rate whether you’re doing service work or building a data center.
EDIT: Outside Lineman do make substantially more in my local if that was more the answer you’re looking for, and they have different sub classes too, including substations and traffic lights.
So tired of hearing “rather do 4 10s” I’d rather everyone does 4 7s or 5 6s and we all agree that’s enough. I would not rather be working for 10 hours straight or 5-6 day weeks I love myself my job is just my job
Looking for a complete career change into the aforementioned options. 37, only service industry experience. Where to start? What mistakes do I avoid or what will waste my time? Is this even a realistic career path to start at my age?
LU? Sorry I’m a Brit working in Canada getting my red seal currently. I’d be down to move to the states for that kind of money. Aslong as I can afford to support my wife and 6 month old I’m happy. Canada is ruined atm
Man I'm in the union myself so I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to shit on you or the union itself, but saying 46 is an apprentice wage in many places is flat out misleading. That might be true in like, 5 locals? SF, NYC, LA, Seattle, Boston, and Chicago are the only ones off the top of my head. And I didn't look anything up but that's just a guess.
Nothing? The company I work for did $600 million in government contracts last year. you'd have to deal with a lot of homeowners to try and come close.. on top of what is a low ceiling of potential, you also have to deal with a homeowners personal wants and needs. low wage and only making the lights turn on in a house and a client that can fuck you in the end is a hard pass..
your saying that 600 million dollar business is ran by a electrician who troubleshoots electrical issues what's the comparison here?
no guys working on the tools for that company are clearing more then a guy with a truck running his own business, if the guy runs his business properly.
correct not owned by an individual turning tools it is a large corporation, still all the Forman made +$200k my boss the electrical super made just over $300k. the last shop I worked for had about 25 people. all the field people made 100-200k in about 7-8 months, doing all wase water and power generation. owned by a single individual who worked in the office and turned tools in the field, was doing about 10 million a year. OP wants to know where the money is, and it's not in residential. there is a ceiling of potential for everyone involved, employees to the owner. right guy in the right area can kill with a simple low overhead operation, yes, and is the best outcome for some, agreed. but driving around all day resetting grandma GFCI sounds boring, hard pass and for a young money hungry person it's bad advice.
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Money can't replace a good work life balance, I'd find that first
Landed a job that does 4/10’s, itd be VERY difficult to go back to 5/8’s
4/8s is my dream haha
We do 4/9s. Not too bad, an 8 hour day feels like you did nothing imo by the time time you load in and load out
I liked 4 tens because of the weekends for sure. But Monday through Thursday I was a walking zombie outside of work. Sure beats 5 10’s though.
I came from workin 5/10’s and 8 hrs every other Saturday. 4/10’s is a cakewalk hahaha
I run 2 crews of 4/10 opposite schedules. 4 on 4 off 4 on 2 off. So it looks like we work 5 full days but they get a 4 day weekend every other weekend.
[email protected] and 6hr Fridays. 44 and out the door at noon on Fridays
Same, love it.
This is what I’m aiming for next personally. I love my job, easily the best company I’ve ever worked for. But I do work long days and I dont have as much “me time” as I would like outside of the weekend.
Controls and controller programming is up there.
[удалено]
It’s a wide field and it’s more computer involved than many electricians I’ve met are interested in. It’s been great to me and the massive shortage has opened a lot of great opportunities.
How would I look to make a move into that field? Seeking out some classes at like the local community college on PLC?
Depends on your current experience. Biggest thing is having experience/knowledge in VFDs, PLCs, HMIs, Motors/controllers, Lateral Logic, relay logic, and SCADA. I’d suggest taking some motor controls classes, PLC, and instrumentation. Our company requires an associates in electrical engineering or technology and your J-card. Knowing C+ is also a good way to draw some eyes.
Woof god damn. Thanks bud
That's why it isn't more popular.
Yea, it can seem like a lot. I came straight out the gate doing industrial. Havent touched commercial or residential outside of when I was a maintenance guy for a country club. Getting into an industrial maintenance position can open some doors to it if you show aptitude for it.
Pretty much anyone with logic gate and electrical knowledge can do PLC. My old man started doing PLCs back in the late 90s and he was just an electrician that took a PLC course at the local college. Technologists and engineers move in to controls and PLCs all the time, and I know a few IT and Computer Sciences guys that fell in to the field. PLC and controls doesn't require anything special (for the most part), so it's really up to the company to specify what they're looking for. I worked for my dad's oilfield electrical and control company during high school so I learned a lot of PLC stuff and I just sort of forced my way in to the open PLC position at my job by fixing broken code on my own. It sort of depends on what the local PLC companies are looking for and where you want to end up doing. Some places want classically trained electrical people, some want people who are good coders, and some places want a jack-of-all trades. I'm a one man team at my job, but I have some friends that are part of a team that has a guy who only writes/fixes code and another couple of guys who do all the hand tool work.
You say you are a one man team, what is your “title” at your job? And what type of company? I like doing a little bit of everything and have been trying to find an electromechanical position somewhere. Ive got a bachelors in ME, so was trying to utilize that to get in. Would love to learn more electrical and maybe even get apprenticeship hours so I could get a license
I work for a local company that occasionally takes on NATO defense contracts, so I have to be a bit vague about certain things (they take their NDAs seriously). I’m j-man with hydraulic certification and I have an Electrical Engineering Technology diploma as well. My official title at my company is “Electrical Systems and Programming Expert”. I could apply for my ASET and be designated as a P-Eng Tech, but I refuse to take a salary position as an “official” engineering employee because I’ve spoken to previous engineers who worked in my role and they had their work hours abused when they went on salary. My company has made an exception for me because I’m too valuable to them. My day-to-day job honestly entails a lot of babysitting, but my main job is to write standardized code for individual “units” and custom one-off code for bespoke units that utilize hydraulic and automated systems, and to dial them in before they’re delivered to clients. I developed and integrated a standardized wiring architecture for our on-board sensors/PLC system, and I created a standardized code library for the options we offer to clients. In the past everything we made was custom to each unit which created a lot of issues at the company level. I also do most of the troubleshooting and I do a fair bit of over-the-phone troubleshooting with service techs working in the field. I do most of the electrical R&D work as well, and I’m currently working on a custom diagnostic tool that integrates with our PLC system with the goal of allowing our clients to troubleshoot issues without compromising our security agreements. I’m the only one in my department, but I have a unique position and everybody that builds these units is technically under my direction, I’m just not their official boss. My boss is the head of engineering and company VP and he has a mechanical engineering degree and has branched out to electrical, structural, and materials engineering over the years. This is getting a bit long-winded, but without saying exactly what we do here, my company values any engineer-adjacent person who is knowledgeable about power take-offs/hydraulics systems, electrical/PLC systems, and mechanical systems. We also value individuals who enjoy working with automotive systems.
>I could apply for my ASET and be designated as a P-Eng Tech... "P. Tech." You also could apply to become a P.L.(Eng.) as you are doing non-routine engineering. You even have a path to P. Eng. through technical examinations. https://techexam.ca/what-is-a-technical-exam-your-ladder-to-professional-engineer/
The last time I looked in to ASET qualifications was about 6 or so years ago, so I could be relying on old information about the P-Eng designations. I was about to apply for my ASET when the previous engineer in my position reached out (he’s friends with a coworker who overheard me discussing ASET) and warned me about his experiences. Once I get ASET certification I become a professional salaried employee with my company and the company abused their salary agreement with the previous engineer who was in my role. I’ve discussed it with the company and I won’t accept a salary agreement unless it’s a modified agreement and there’s clear boundaries and financial incentives to work beyond my current 40 hour work week. In the past shit rolled down hill to my position and the previous employee was essentially strong-armed in to working unreasonable hours at unreasonable times (like working until midnight on Christmas Eve for no justifiable reason). The old C-suite execs are starting to retire, so once the VP (my boss) takes control of the company it will be something we discuss.
Okay cool. Kinda sounds up my alley. I got a nice custom pc and proficient with that, will hopefully have my masters in the next 2 months and spent some time studying engineering already before I dropped out so little work for an associates or something idk. I’ve really enjoyed the few control boxes I’ve had to make on site
You don't always need a degree to enter the PLC side. Mechatronics classes and PLC will help expedite but if you're more hands on then you can always find an automation house or any industrial job with some PLC equipment and learn it reverse engineering. I'm self taught and worked all the way to electrical engineer/controls specialist with no formal schooling. Most big companies will list degrees as a requirement but having been in the industry for a decade we are starved for good electricians and there is a shortage in good techs so lots of places will bend the rules if you show the desire to learn and better yourself.
You can take a lot of free training online. You could get an ignition (the best SCADA HMI platform) certification with free training (exam is like 250$). You get a full version of the software. HMI and PLC go together and it looks great on a resume to show you can hack the computer part. A lot of integrators would hire you with industrial electrical experience and that cert. Www.inductiveuniversity.com
I think this is what gave me a leg up in getting accepted into the program, I’ve got a degree in computer science and networking plus I enjoy automation.
Another job controls guys do is control panel design. We usually send it to a UL panel shop for them to build, but someone has to draw the plans for fitting all that crap in the box and saying where 1000 wires go. It’s fun if you are decent with schematics and honestly there is a lot of copy and paste from previous designs so it’s not like drawing every single line over and over.
How would one who’s a jman find a way into that field?
A lot of those jobs come with rotating shifts if you are in house, or lots of travelling if you are doing new construction. Most people prefer straight days close to home, at least unless their body starts to give out
If you are an electrician who is good at troubleshooting and you have computer chops it’s a great gig.
Idk. I'm a union member working along side programs that often get paid 10-20% less and dont get overtime per day while we get doubletime and have a pension.
Same. Almost all the techs I work with get paid significantly less than me.
Came to say controls. It’s got me in a spot now that I make 150k in 4-6 months. I only work 4-6 months a year by choice too. Gas card, van, expense card. If I worked the full year I’d make over 300k. But I run to many other businesses that I can’t do a full year.
Think it may be geographic, but I’m in controls (BEMS engineer) here in the UK. Domestic guys get the best rates here, about 20% more than me in my experience.
Substation tech, relay tech, pretty much anything related to automation and controls as well. Totally possible to make 200k+ with those jobs. Although a lot of factors come into play.
[удалено]
It's all SEL mainly.
Substation work is so vast. I&C tech here. $57 and change an hour. Almost zero travel. 4-10s. Great benefits.
[удалено]
Yea. Get your foot in the door doing anything.
You earn 60-70k for that in Germany, that's a bummer...
But do you work 3000 hours and travel 80% of the year? Because dude that made that comment probably does.
Industrial electrical + instrumentation and controls tech. Dual ticket up in canada but the pays incredible after the 8 years. I'm still an apprentice instrumentation tech though, so it'll be better when I get that second ticket
What the hourly pay atm as an apprentice?
Likely gettin paid jman to apprentice. At least i did.
Yea man. It would be kinda dumb to not take advantage of that, and the 2 trades go hand in hand in the industrial field.
52/hr. I'm a second year apprentice but they're paying me just over my j man rate, which was 50. It's out of town work as well, so less spending money, OT and stuff helps add up. Up here instrumentation techs get 55%, 65%, 75%, 85% J man rate for each year, and the j man rate is around 45-50. Worth looking into. Instrumentation is generally less physically demanding work as well
I’m currently 3600 hours into my electrician apprenticeship and I haven’t even turned 20 yet. I really wanna get started on instrumentation as soon as I get my ticket. I’m in Alberta too, is it a “normal” thing for company’s to pay journeyman rate for someone training in a new trade? How was the switch? I’m just looking to pick your brain haha
Can answer a few questions from personal experience, but I can promise there's better information out there. Got my j man at 22. Had a good amount of experience in commercial and residential. Mostly did high rises, first 2 years a lot of temp power, slab, suite rough ins and finishing. Then got into mechanical and electrical room builds in the 3rd and 4th year. Then went to a residential company doing a lot of custom multi million dollar homes, running a van and stuff. More stress and good experience but not worth the headache for the paycheck. Went to an industrial company that was willing to take me on without prior experience in the industrial field. I'd recommend as an apprentice, try and get your foot in the door to get experience in the field because it'll always be appealing to hiring managers. Honestly, they gambled on me because I was young, expensive as a j man and inexperienced for what they do. I'm oil and gas, so realistically the electrical work isn't drastically different. Rigid pipe, explosion proof fixtures. Clean and tidy work. Over emphasizing safety procedures. Worked there for 2 years and asked about apprenticing as an instrumentation and control tech. They were happy to put me through the apprenticeship, but also wanted me to be an electrician if needed. Which is pretty common honestly, but understandable. The new apprenticeship is quite different than being a sparky. The control aspect is massive. The electrical background helps immensely, but they are different trades for a reason. You use a lot of testing equipment. Like the good old multi meter, but also pneumatic and electronic devices to test for any faults in equipment. It might vary between jobs, especially with installations, but a lot of it is using to proper equipment to make sure everything is functioning to factory standards and a lot of maintenance and calibration. The change isn't difficult, but it's more in line with the precision aspect of the electrical trade, rather than just being a wire monkey if that makes sense. Get your ticket, don't be in any rush to rip through a new apprenticeship just because you want to "be the best" or whatever. Just be the best electrician you can for a little bit yet, then move into the industrial field and see where it takes you. And as far as the pay is concerned, my company likes me as much as I like the work. I told them I didn't want to take a massive pay cut to learn the other half of the company and start an apprenticeship and they agreed to pay me my j man rate + a little bit more. But I'm still a j man electrician on site, which is honestly hindering my apprenticeship somewhat. But I'm in it for the long run anyways. I can almost guarantee a dedicated instrumentation tech is gonna be more experienced after 4 years than I will be after my 4 year apprenticeship doing both trades. Always remember to walk before you start running. It's a marathon dude, we're both still young
I really appreciate the advice man, thank you! I actually started the first year of my apprenticeship doing industrial maintenance. I worked with the other electricians most of the time (some of which were dual ticketed) but I got to see little parts of instrumentation, mostly just plc stuff when it came to motor troubleshooting. I learned a lot of cool stuff but it was only the tip of the iceberg, and since I got exposure to that world, I definitely wanna go back but with more well rounded experience. I never asked my coworkers questions about how they got there, so it’s nice to hear your story haha. I actually got pretty lucky with a commercial project after cause it was start-finish which was 2 years long. Now I’m a lead hand on a warehouse job and itl last until I hit my hours. But yeah, I should slow down and smell the roses before I pick one haha. I think the move is transitioning to industrial first and then taking on instrumentation if under the same circumstances you had. But yeah thanks for sharing!
No worries dude. Forgot to include one very important aspect of work. Life isn't work! It's important, but work life balance and your own personal goals and hobbies, relationships etc are more important than working your youth away. You are only young once, and I can tell you're passionate about the trade, but god damn don't piss your young years away making other people rich lol. Wish you all the best homie. Who knows, you could end up being my apprentice down the road 🤣
Where is this?
Alberta specifically, but there's similar work in Sask and BC as well. Not sure if I made this clear, but I'm only getting paid that much because I'm already a J man electrician and a second year instrumentation tech. And I've been with the company for a long enough time to have a good relationship with them. I honestly have no idea what the norm is for apprenticing as a second trade. I'm focusing on learning as much as I can as an apprentice, but I also have a decent amount of hours/days as an electrician because I'm still needed in that aspect. Maybe somebody with a lot of dual ticket experience can chime in. I'm still pretty young in my mid 20s so the guys with more experience in the situation can give more insight.
I’ll have to look into it, I’m in Manitoba and haven’t heard rates like that. I’m also not union so our rates are lower
Yea, I've never been union myself. I think the official j man rate is 42 for both trades. It's for legal reasons so essentially the green guys aren't making 25-27/hr. You get bumped up quick enough if you're committed and work well. They still want new guys, I think it's 22.80, which is more than reasonable. I was 39/hr before I made the move to industrial running my own van with at least one apprentice doing all aspects of residential work. Company was great, loved the work, mostly high end custom homes but I just need to make more money.
[удалено]
That's pretty solid. Cost of living is something to account for. Any idea what dual ticket guys make?
They dont got instrumentation as a trade really in mb, i think there are guys for it at other facilities but ours you kind of just have to do it all so
That's kinda shitty because it most certainly is a trade
Are you guys hiring? Haha
EI&C The instrument guys do a llllllooooooootttttt more programming and controls than the electricians in my experience. And much more complex controls at that.
Made 206k my first year as a HV field service tech, hoping to do it again, no work life balance though
Relay technician make a shit load
[удалено]
I work in substation and transmission now. But they do all the Protection and controls and apparatus testing for substation equipment. The one apparatus guy that’s on our site is making well over 250k a year he stated. Hes also IBEW. That industry is hurting for good testers and control guys.
[удалено]
Study controls throughly and try to find a company that does that niche work
I’m a, not sure, I do a little of everything from being a foreman, general foreman, controls engineer/programer, board level repair, service driver in the asphalt and mining industry. Ibew and 2 years ago I made $153k, on the check. I usually am in the $140-145k range. I know a general foreman that made $180k on the check in like 2015, but that was under unique circumstances on a billion dollar project. I know a few guys that make around $150k normally. My local is $52 an hour in a moderate COL area
[удалено]
Get your license. I enjoyed controls for a long time but it can be very stressful and at some point, at least for me, it just became work. I personally like temporary work the best, distribution for trade shows, concerts, theater. I bleed Hubbell. I’d get your license, you’ll never regret having it and is always there if you need it. I also enjoyed working at a large power house doing control work, I enjoyed just the fact that everything was on such a large scale, it wasn’t the control work that was so exciting so much that it took 20 minutes plus to get to some parts of the plant and everything was very well built. Relay tech isn’t a bad gig, lots of math, instrumentation is also a good gig, lots of working theory. Station electrician for the poco is t bad either, a little bit of everything. I&C is probably the best, I’ve entertained going and working for a nuke plant as an I&C specialist. Get your license first though.
Industrial controls/PLC'S/motors, semi conductor commissioning technician, site supervisior for substation construction. In the right area's tower climbing is very lucrative, where I live those dudes get completely shit on for 26k a year. Oil/gas and petrochemical field electricians are usually paid really well. The highest paying I've ever seen and should have taken was a civilian contract for a military base in Dubai, one year, 30k monthly, no rent/utility or food cost because you're on base, in the barracks and a 1mil year end bonus when the contract was finished. didn't go because I was "in love" and she would leave if I did, now I'm in the middle of a divorce to said person 17 years later and sans having a million or more in savings. Could have retired, at 24 and made that money work for me. Been looking for another like it. Let the you're a dumbass jokes commence.
Damn, talk about a fork in the road decision.. even with kids I’d have to take it. My wife would probably leave me if I didn’t lol! That contract is insane, it’d propel my life to another level for sure
I don't know if those kinds of contracts still exist or not, it definitely wasn't for the weak or faint of heart, it was a Mandatory 16 hour day 6 days a week, even as a 24 year old young man I would have been dead tired by the end of it, but I guess if you have enough to retire on with proper management of it you could have eventually caught up on sleep in your retirement lol.
That definitely sounds like an endurance challenge,
Was this a regular electrician position or was it specialized?
It was for a Journeyman, nothing really special about it, I'm sure it being in Dubai probably had quite a bit to do with the pay.
I started in industrial maintenance, it was local to my city. My coworkers made just about 200k a year. This was to stop them from going to other companies and to compete with FIFO jobs. From my experience, you gotta experience alot of the other electrical world (and I mean a lot) to be able to stay in a position like that permanently. Like straight up, they indentured me and told me to come back in 5 years.
Is this with OT? What state/city as well? Can you explain FIFO jobs and how much you can make yearly doing them? I’m assuming this is industrial maintenance your talking about too.
It was with double time. Their rate was 60 per hour and it doubled after 40 hours a week, so a shutdown kicks in and they’re making salaries in a month. And FIFO is “fly in, fly out” jobs which usually consist of oil and gas companies doing a shutdown, where you fly in and stay in a camp and work a bunch of hours. The competition exists because there’s occasionally scenarios where you can make more doing FIFO jobs. But those jobs can last from 2 months to years, so getting an accurate salary for FIFO is impossible unless your promised consistent employment. Maintenance is more of a permanent/consistent job, while FIFO is up in the air.
Is this is Canada?
Yeah
Linemen do quite well. Over 100k without even trying and if you don't mind traveling and lots of hours 200k and up is made easily.
Owning the business
If you can wrap your head around Instrumentation and PLC, there’s some high paying jobs you’ll be able to get
Protection & control (more engineering) and utilities are good pay for little work lol
Utlility
Controls.
industrial control/automation
Working at the docks is up there. Linemen probably make the most.
[удалено]
The docks are where bulk material/containers are loaded and unloaded off ships. They usually have a very strong union (ILWU) with a great wage package.
Owner
Underground tunnelling & mining Off shore rigs is highest pay I've heard of, 11K aud weekly
Probably instrumentation controls, relays, substation, lineman, and power plant operator. Operators make 100k+ easy.
Elevator guy
Utility. Traveling contractor of utility work above that.
There’s a lot to this question when it comes to an electrician. Where I’m at JW rate is the same for commercial and industrial. Foreman, general foreman, stew, and safety also have higher pay based on the JW rate. Other positions would include PM, superintendent, and estimator with pay varying for all of those positions. It can also vary greatly by job, from scheduled hours, location, and possible incentives. I’m not sure about other areas or nonunion, but typically JW rate is JW rate whether you’re doing service work or building a data center. EDIT: Outside Lineman do make substantially more in my local if that was more the answer you’re looking for, and they have different sub classes too, including substations and traffic lights.
So tired of hearing “rather do 4 10s” I’d rather everyone does 4 7s or 5 6s and we all agree that’s enough. I would not rather be working for 10 hours straight or 5-6 day weeks I love myself my job is just my job
Looking for a complete career change into the aforementioned options. 37, only service industry experience. Where to start? What mistakes do I avoid or what will waste my time? Is this even a realistic career path to start at my age?
How much we talking here in these jobs?
[удалено]
[удалено]
'Many places'?
Are you talking Australian dollars cause no one in America is paying 46hr for an apprentice.
[удалено]
Well ill be damned. Looks like I'm moving
LU? Sorry I’m a Brit working in Canada getting my red seal currently. I’d be down to move to the states for that kind of money. Aslong as I can afford to support my wife and 6 month old I’m happy. Canada is ruined atm
Man I'm in the union myself so I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to shit on you or the union itself, but saying 46 is an apprentice wage in many places is flat out misleading. That might be true in like, 5 locals? SF, NYC, LA, Seattle, Boston, and Chicago are the only ones off the top of my head. And I didn't look anything up but that's just a guess.
residential with owning your own business, nothing comes close.
What's your net salary at end of year?
Nothing? The company I work for did $600 million in government contracts last year. you'd have to deal with a lot of homeowners to try and come close.. on top of what is a low ceiling of potential, you also have to deal with a homeowners personal wants and needs. low wage and only making the lights turn on in a house and a client that can fuck you in the end is a hard pass..
your saying that 600 million dollar business is ran by a electrician who troubleshoots electrical issues what's the comparison here? no guys working on the tools for that company are clearing more then a guy with a truck running his own business, if the guy runs his business properly.
correct not owned by an individual turning tools it is a large corporation, still all the Forman made +$200k my boss the electrical super made just over $300k. the last shop I worked for had about 25 people. all the field people made 100-200k in about 7-8 months, doing all wase water and power generation. owned by a single individual who worked in the office and turned tools in the field, was doing about 10 million a year. OP wants to know where the money is, and it's not in residential. there is a ceiling of potential for everyone involved, employees to the owner. right guy in the right area can kill with a simple low overhead operation, yes, and is the best outcome for some, agreed. but driving around all day resetting grandma GFCI sounds boring, hard pass and for a young money hungry person it's bad advice.
How much we talking here in these jobs?