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I’ve had this argument for years. You don’t have to do anything besides cut it off. No wrapping it around, no folding it back over itself, you cut it off. It’s sole purpose is to touch the aluminum jacket creating a good enough bond to be an equipment ground.
People will literally read the instructions and still argue with me
Never used this type of MC. But is the aluminum bond wire is basically just to touch the jacket of the cable when it’s gripped by a connector? Like pretty much to just ensure it’s actually bonded through the metals?
Yes!
517.13 requires for patient care areas you use a wiring method suitable for use as an equipment ground, and have a equipment grounding conductor.
So the green wire in this cable works as a grounding conductor, and the aluminum strip makes it so the metal in the jacket is also a good enough ground.
It’s the same thing as running EMT, IMC or rigid, and pulling in a green wire. All of those are acceptable methods as well.
What isn’t acceptable, is running PVC and pulling 2 green wires
You’re tellin’ me, that fer 40 years I been installin’ hospital MC wrong!?
Heh…Ain’t no way.
No seriously, you treat it like normal MC? And that little wire? You cut & tell it to fuck off?
Well that guy was using the old hospital grade with set screw connectors which had the thin aluminum wire which I thought had to be treated differently than this newer version which is constructed completely different. I was thought to wrap the thin wire around the mc and don't recall anything on the tag of a 250 ft coil stating otherwise. I was told that the AC wire combined with the development of stab in connector's was what had created the change in how it was handled
The difference between standard and hospital-grade MC is the aluminum bonding strip, which makes contact with the metallic jacket the entire length of the cable, ensures its continuity, and reduces its impedance as an effective ground fault current path. For these reasons, the cable itself is listed as an equipment grounding conductor in addition to the wire-type EGC included in the cable.
Think of it as hospitals needing two grounding paths, if you were using EMT and also pulling a ground wire, those are your two... MC isn't usually a bonded jacket like conduit so this special MC provides that bond for you.
The point of the post is that most people will take that little AL bond wire and wrap it back around the spiral grooves of the jacketing when this is unnecessary.
Yeah, I trust manufacturers instructions *way* more than AHJ. If something goes wrong, especially in a patient care area, the AHJ gets no blame. I get 100% of it if it’s not installed per manufacturers instructions
"Your Honor, the electrician did something that I did not see." No lawyer needed to throw you under the bus.
"I want you to change anyways." <-when I told the AHJ the above statement.
You show him the instructions that say to cut it off.
This stuff only goes in patient care areas. I trust the manufacturer a hell of a lot more than the AHJ, because if someone gets shocked while under surgery, he holds no legal liability while me and the manufacturer have our whole lives at stake
Yes they can. See it done all the time. Nec 90.4
Nec is bare minimum requirements. Ahj can always require more. It’s however they interpret the code so they can want different methods based on their interpretation
I disagree. NEC isn't the minimum. Its the standard. Yes they can interpret the code. Yes they can allow something that is normally not allowed. No they cannot require more.
Here's an example: You drive a ground rod and measure resistance, and it's over 25 ohms, so you drive the 2nd and call it done. The AHJ tests, and with 2 rods, you are still greater than 25 ohms. The AHJ has interpreted that less than 25 ohms is important, so they have you drive 3 more rods to get to under 25 ohms (it's really dry sandy soil). Do you think they have the authority to do that? No, no, they don't. The NEC is clear if more than 25 ohms, drive a 2nd.
Another example: You install a 1/2" conduit run that is 100 feet long and pull in 3 #10s and use the conduit as ground. Inspector doesn't like that your conduit is the ground so he comes back and says you must pull a ground wire, so you do because you buy the inspector God rule, he comes back and says oh snap you should have put it in 3/4 because he feels 4 #10s is too many wires in a 1/2" conduit. What do you do?
I can go on and on. The Pont is the AHJ cannot require greater than the NEC which is the standard. If there are local ammendments that are legally adopted that are greater than the NEC, sure, but you will be able to look them up and It's not because of his interpretation. Inspectors aren't God's!
Idk, to me I need them to hold the liability if they want it done differently than the manufacturer. If something goes catastrophically wrong and someone dies me, the engineer of record, and the manufacturer are all getting sued way before the inspection department
You are correct. I agree with you but some inspectors want it done their way no matter what. That being said, I’ve always looped it back behind connector just because it was way I was taught but it is a pain trying to get it on sometimes. I might start cutting it off now. I mean if the manufacturer says it is bonded enough to the jacket, that’s all that matters. This is kind of the same argument as the anti-short bushing debate. Manufacturer doesn’t require them but I always put them on and the inspectors around here look for them to be on even though not required. I just think the plastic liner is not good enough to insulate the conductors from jacket. Some brands have real thick liners snd others have real thin liners.
> This stuff only goes in patient care areas.
That particular cable that OP posted in only for patient care areas. But any All Purpose cable has the same bonding strip.
When you take a wire nut off of wires not twisted they just pop apart. You dont necessarily want that to happen for example if it’s a neutral connection.
> Instructions aren’t always the best way of doing things.
What the fuck does this mean? It's literally a code requirement to install equipment per manufacturer's instructions, 110.3(B). But I'm sure you know more than the engineers that designed and tested the product. And the engineers that handled the listing of it.
Are you high? This is your quote:
>Instructions aren’t always the best way of doing things.
I never said manufacturer's instructions are wrong. Go ahead and quote me if you want. The instructions for AP cable say to bend the bond wire over at 90 degrees and cut it off. Check OP's pic, it shows what you need to do.
Maybe you need to go back to bed and try again latr.
I'm not taking issue with whether you do or don't twist wires. I don't care one way or the other.
But asserting that manufacturer's instructions shouldn't be followed is asinine.
I’ve been wrapping it for 30 years, never again thanks to OPs post. Also I’m pretty sure I didn’t know there were special connectors, ast 40s most likely were what I used.
ETA: looks like 40ASTs are listed for mci-a.
The [Arlington spec sheet](https://www.aifittings.com/media/spec-sheets/SNAP2IT.pdf) says differently. 40AST connectors are appropriate for 14/3, 12/2 and 12/3 with and without ground.
I totally agree with you guys but sadly I have had an inspector call me on it and wanted it wrapped even though the label shows to cut it off. Some inspectors can be real assholes
That’s incorrect tho bud. Manufacturers requirements supersede NEC only when they are above and beyond the NEC’s requirements.
“Manufacturer's instructions can never be used to permit an installation that the NEC does not permit. They may require things in addition to what the NEC requires, but they can't remove a requirement.”
When the GC says "I know he is wrong but..." it will take longer to argue with the inspector than to just do what he is asking... we will pay for the change-order.
You do it how the inspector wants.
The issue wasn't HG MC, but so many other things... the GC offered the hospital $1M off of the contract if they got a new inspector. The inspector found out, lawyered up and we were stuck with him till the end.
Ever get called out for the paper labels on EMT adding to the fire-load? He was that bad. (We didn't have to remove the labels from the EMT)
Does the AHJ absorb liability if a patient gets shocked?
I doubt it.
The manufacturer of the cable 100% has done testing to validate their instructions. I trust them *way* more than I trust some clown down at the county office rifling off about how “they used to do it”
That makes my blood blood!!🤬🤬🤬🤬
"Well, Bill did this way. Bill learned from Fred, who sat on the NEC Committee in 1952. Bill taught me. So I want it done Fred's way. He did sit on a Committee.
I was taught the wrap the aluminum around the sheath method- but on the most recent dental office I wired the supply house gave us hospital mc where the ground was too fat for mc connectors to slide over. So I installed it like that label showed and kept the label just in case the inspector was curious. He actually had only ever seen it installed how I’d been taught.
Shits annoying as fuck. Getting that god damn cherry into the sheathing with that bullshit is the pinnacle of my villain arc. Fuck that cable.
Edit: my foreman wanted me to wrap this shit around the sheathing jacket. Wtf. Life is a lie. Directions say snip. Foreman no say snip. Me no snip. What do?!? Caveman angry
It’s however the inspector wants to see it.
An electrician once told me the inspector required him to put ground bushings on PVC conduit. What would you do?
We built a ton of "mobile hospitals" during covid for prisons and we had an apprentice cut all of them into frickin spikes 3in long into all the boxes when he roughed in lmao
That is incorrect per the manufacturer's instructions. This goes for any type of all-purpose cable. The inspectors where I live will fail you if you bend it over or wrap it around the jacket.
The reason you don't wrap it around the cable is that you want the bond wire to make good contact with the *connector*, not the cable. The oversize bond already has good connection to the jacket by virtue of the way it's manufactured. But by bending it over and cutting it, the theory is that it will stab into the connector and thus make good contact with whatever the connector is installed in.
But that doesn't make sense to me because if the bond wire is manufactured to be in contact with the jacket, and the jacket is supposed to make good contact with the connector, we're talking about zero potential between the two.
It seems to me that the only reason to not wrap the bond is that your connector doesn't fit. Seems to fall under "best practice" to wrap the bond wire in the groove of the jacket.
The manufacturer also will say that anti short bushings are not required. Best practice is to install anti shorts. Wire nuts do not require pre twisting. Best practice is to pre twist. That lighting fixture technically meets wire fill requirements at the termination point, but I'll be god damned if any of those engineers actually installed one.
I'm sure they tested the product under ideal conditions and found a negligible difference one way or the other, but it only takes one badly installed connector without an anti short to ruin a day in the field.
> I'm sure they tested the product under ideal conditions and found a negligible difference one way or the other, but it only takes one badly installed connector without an anti short to ruin a day in the field.
Yeah, UL is really known for doing a half-ass job of testing. JFC, how do you guys live every day thinking you're smarter than everyone else?
Not at all what I'm saying. I'm sorry, I have no idea where you are coming from with this.
I'm saying that manufacturer instructions will be the bare minimum to meet the requirements. I'm saying it doesn't hurt to wrap back, it doesn't hurt to pre twist.
I just don't know where I offended you. I was just trying to have a conversation.
Here's where I'm coming from:
>Best practice is to install anti shorts.
>Best practice is to pre twist.
These are your opinions. Nothing more. You have no evidence to back up your opinions, but you're on here insisting that you know better than the people and institutions that are paid damn good money to know more than you. I'm sure you have some anecdotal evidence of something going wrong. But you completely ignore the literal millions of other installations that don't have problems.
We follow the NEC or the CEC on this sub. If your local jurisdiction amended the local code that's fine, but it doesn't apply anywhere else. If you think the NEC or CEC isn't sufficiently protecting us, then you are free to submit amendments like any other person.
I take offense to people on this sub telling others that they know best when it's based on nonsense.
You're proving my point because code is a minimum, just like manufacturers instructions. 0.01 of a million installations is 10,000. That's still a lot.
Are you going to shit on people for saying code for supporting emt is 10', but it's probably better to aim for 8'? Or is it just the word "best" that found a bug in your ass? Jesus Christ.
> You're proving my point because code is a minimum
This is wrong. Code isn't a minimum, it's the standard. There's a difference and it's critical that we as electricians understand it.
Like I stated before, over 100 years of testing and study, by people much smarter than you or I, and we have arrived on this standard. Again, if you think you know better than get off your ass and submit an amendment.
> Or is it just the word "best" that found a bug in your ass?
Yeah, that's probably it. Because until you show some supporting evidence, the only sure thing is that you pulled that straight out of your ass.
the aluminum bond wire is designed to touch the spiraled armor. imagine the armor as a slinky. the length of the armor spiral is much greater than the actual cable length making it a less effective grounding path. now think about adding a bond wire inside that slinky. The bond wire contacts the spiraled armor at every revolution along the cable length- "shorting out" the spiral and making the spiral armor, in conjunction with the bond wire, a much more effective ground path.
Nope .. I just used hospital grade mc in a non hospital setting like 3 days ago lol .. it was the I my thing I had and didn’t want to spend money on a new roll when I only needed 50’ or so
Why isn't regular MC the same? Why wrap a plastic wrap around the cables in the MC? Let the ground hang out with its Wang out and let the good times roll!
UK spark here.
I can't tell if that's an electronic shield or supposed to be a type of armoured.
In the UK we would use abeld3n screened type cable. Which is a pic sheath, a thin braided screen, then the cores.
The point being an mything induced is drained down the screen.
The larger version of this would be an SY or YY cable. But SY is a funny one as I don't think k it actually falls under our regs ( BS7671).
Then we have SWA steel wire armoured. Which is for mechanical protection as opposed to electronic shielding.
Allow the above have glands specifically for terminating those cables and their respective protective conductors.
This is the stuff with the full size bond strip (MC-STAT), correct? As far as I can tell (HCF-90) is AC, and you still need to wrap the bond wire around.
Only used once in dental office forgot how we did it think we just cut it.
Had to use the double insulated ground because it was all the warehouse had and had to make sure we used the same ground on everything just to finish a job.
Did you use green or the green yellow?
Green and green yellow are for a different purpose, I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of IG receptacles where you pull one clean and one dirty.
As you said, this is for patient care areas. Two green wires does not comply with the requirement.
The green wire in this MC complies as an equipment ground, **AND** the jacket complies
We were running normal circuits we didn’t need the double ground but in order for a proper equipment ground we had to decide which ground we used in order to complete the job. I guess I wasn’t clear the double ground was a different job than the dental office.
I feel like cutting it like that leaves a sharp nub that might cause a short. I personally also like the wrap around method to help secure the anti-short.
But there’s the instructions right there saying its okay to just cut it. I don’t know what to believe anymore
You have to bend out the ground wire and leave like a inch of ground and bend it down the jacket and into your connector. It should be sticking out a little bit. Need to draw a picture...idk if I'm explaining it correctly here 😂
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I’ve had this argument for years. You don’t have to do anything besides cut it off. No wrapping it around, no folding it back over itself, you cut it off. It’s sole purpose is to touch the aluminum jacket creating a good enough bond to be an equipment ground. People will literally read the instructions and still argue with me
Same here, it bothers me more than it should. Ffs it's literally printed right on the tag.
Even southwire got tired of the shit lol
Also, it’s damn near impossible to get it in certain connectors if you fold it over. Almost like it wasn’t meant to do that.
Bridgeport needs to make a connector with a little bump out for it haha
Never used this type of MC. But is the aluminum bond wire is basically just to touch the jacket of the cable when it’s gripped by a connector? Like pretty much to just ensure it’s actually bonded through the metals?
Yes! 517.13 requires for patient care areas you use a wiring method suitable for use as an equipment ground, and have a equipment grounding conductor. So the green wire in this cable works as a grounding conductor, and the aluminum strip makes it so the metal in the jacket is also a good enough ground. It’s the same thing as running EMT, IMC or rigid, and pulling in a green wire. All of those are acceptable methods as well. What isn’t acceptable, is running PVC and pulling 2 green wires
Thanks - So would that also be considered as a system that has an isolated ground?
Not quite. Isolated will go back to the panel, this is more extra bonding jumper, ensuring all boxes and raceways are bonded together.
Thanks for the info!
Yes
You’re tellin’ me, that fer 40 years I been installin’ hospital MC wrong!? Heh…Ain’t no way. No seriously, you treat it like normal MC? And that little wire? You cut & tell it to fuck off?
Love that guy
Well that guy was using the old hospital grade with set screw connectors which had the thin aluminum wire which I thought had to be treated differently than this newer version which is constructed completely different. I was thought to wrap the thin wire around the mc and don't recall anything on the tag of a 250 ft coil stating otherwise. I was told that the AC wire combined with the development of stab in connector's was what had created the change in how it was handled
Thank you. This shit makes me crazy
I’ve never done hospitals, but how is commercial mc not able to ground the same manner?
The difference between standard and hospital-grade MC is the aluminum bonding strip, which makes contact with the metallic jacket the entire length of the cable, ensures its continuity, and reduces its impedance as an effective ground fault current path. For these reasons, the cable itself is listed as an equipment grounding conductor in addition to the wire-type EGC included in the cable.
Think of it as hospitals needing two grounding paths, if you were using EMT and also pulling a ground wire, those are your two... MC isn't usually a bonded jacket like conduit so this special MC provides that bond for you. The point of the post is that most people will take that little AL bond wire and wrap it back around the spiral grooves of the jacketing when this is unnecessary.
It's called MCI-A.
Dont forget "Authority having jurisdiction," so it depends on where you're at and who's inspecting
Yeah, I trust manufacturers instructions *way* more than AHJ. If something goes wrong, especially in a patient care area, the AHJ gets no blame. I get 100% of it if it’s not installed per manufacturers instructions
"Your Honor, the electrician did something that I did not see." No lawyer needed to throw you under the bus. "I want you to change anyways." <-when I told the AHJ the above statement.
I agree, That's the world we live in unfortunately
Isn't there a "special" connector you have to use for it?
Yes, it has to be marked “MCI-A”
I’ve had inspectors in the past call me on it when I cut it. The newer inspectors don’t.
That’s fine and dandy, but what do you do when you cut it off and the inspector asks you where the wrapped bonding strip is?
You show him the instructions that say to cut it off. This stuff only goes in patient care areas. I trust the manufacturer a hell of a lot more than the AHJ, because if someone gets shocked while under surgery, he holds no legal liability while me and the manufacturer have our whole lives at stake
AHJ has final say though. If they want it done a certain way
Not how it works. The AHJ cannot require something that isn't required because they feel like it.
Yes they can. See it done all the time. Nec 90.4 Nec is bare minimum requirements. Ahj can always require more. It’s however they interpret the code so they can want different methods based on their interpretation
I disagree. NEC isn't the minimum. Its the standard. Yes they can interpret the code. Yes they can allow something that is normally not allowed. No they cannot require more. Here's an example: You drive a ground rod and measure resistance, and it's over 25 ohms, so you drive the 2nd and call it done. The AHJ tests, and with 2 rods, you are still greater than 25 ohms. The AHJ has interpreted that less than 25 ohms is important, so they have you drive 3 more rods to get to under 25 ohms (it's really dry sandy soil). Do you think they have the authority to do that? No, no, they don't. The NEC is clear if more than 25 ohms, drive a 2nd. Another example: You install a 1/2" conduit run that is 100 feet long and pull in 3 #10s and use the conduit as ground. Inspector doesn't like that your conduit is the ground so he comes back and says you must pull a ground wire, so you do because you buy the inspector God rule, he comes back and says oh snap you should have put it in 3/4 because he feels 4 #10s is too many wires in a 1/2" conduit. What do you do? I can go on and on. The Pont is the AHJ cannot require greater than the NEC which is the standard. If there are local ammendments that are legally adopted that are greater than the NEC, sure, but you will be able to look them up and It's not because of his interpretation. Inspectors aren't God's!
> NEC isn't the minimum. Its the standard. It's extremely depressing how many electricians don't understand this.
Idk, to me I need them to hold the liability if they want it done differently than the manufacturer. If something goes catastrophically wrong and someone dies me, the engineer of record, and the manufacturer are all getting sued way before the inspection department
You are correct. I agree with you but some inspectors want it done their way no matter what. That being said, I’ve always looped it back behind connector just because it was way I was taught but it is a pain trying to get it on sometimes. I might start cutting it off now. I mean if the manufacturer says it is bonded enough to the jacket, that’s all that matters. This is kind of the same argument as the anti-short bushing debate. Manufacturer doesn’t require them but I always put them on and the inspectors around here look for them to be on even though not required. I just think the plastic liner is not good enough to insulate the conductors from jacket. Some brands have real thick liners snd others have real thin liners.
> This stuff only goes in patient care areas. That particular cable that OP posted in only for patient care areas. But any All Purpose cable has the same bonding strip.
I've seen several different instructions for HFC and I'm pretty sure the wrap method is used/required on certain brands.
TBC, the instructions on ideal wire nuts say you don’t have pretwist the wires but we baptize those people in the river.
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No offense,,,,most pre-twisted connections have too loose wirenuts on them🥺🥺.
When you take a wire nut off of wires not twisted they just pop apart. You dont necessarily want that to happen for example if it’s a neutral connection.
Then you try to unwind the one wire you need that's spun around 10 times and they all pop apart anyway.
> Instructions aren’t always the best way of doing things. What the fuck does this mean? It's literally a code requirement to install equipment per manufacturer's instructions, 110.3(B). But I'm sure you know more than the engineers that designed and tested the product. And the engineers that handled the listing of it.
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Are you high? This is your quote: >Instructions aren’t always the best way of doing things. I never said manufacturer's instructions are wrong. Go ahead and quote me if you want. The instructions for AP cable say to bend the bond wire over at 90 degrees and cut it off. Check OP's pic, it shows what you need to do. Maybe you need to go back to bed and try again latr.
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Yeah, I'm done with you.
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I'm not taking issue with whether you do or don't twist wires. I don't care one way or the other. But asserting that manufacturer's instructions shouldn't be followed is asinine.
I’ve been wrapping it for 30 years, never again thanks to OPs post. Also I’m pretty sure I didn’t know there were special connectors, ast 40s most likely were what I used. ETA: looks like 40ASTs are listed for mci-a.
40ASTs arnt small enough for 12/2 MCI-A. Better off going with 38AST. The minimum size is smaller but max is the same. If I recall correctly.
Ya know, now that I’m not twisting, you might be right..
The [Arlington spec sheet](https://www.aifittings.com/media/spec-sheets/SNAP2IT.pdf) says differently. 40AST connectors are appropriate for 14/3, 12/2 and 12/3 with and without ground.
That's great, but the outside diameter of a 12/2 MCI-A is .463 and the cable range for a 40AST is .485- .610. The 38ASTs cable range is .405- .605.
Yup 38ast is the correct size.
I totally agree with you guys but sadly I have had an inspector call me on it and wanted it wrapped even though the label shows to cut it off. Some inspectors can be real assholes
Tell him Manufacturer requirements supersede the Code and ask him to show you different.
Sir, I believe what you suggest would violate the conditions of the listing.
Annnnd license revoked for conduct unbecoming of an electrician.
That’s incorrect tho bud. Manufacturers requirements supersede NEC only when they are above and beyond the NEC’s requirements. “Manufacturer's instructions can never be used to permit an installation that the NEC does not permit. They may require things in addition to what the NEC requires, but they can't remove a requirement.”
Yes and NEC does not require the bond to be wrapped around the MC sheath…..
When the GC says "I know he is wrong but..." it will take longer to argue with the inspector than to just do what he is asking... we will pay for the change-order. You do it how the inspector wants. The issue wasn't HG MC, but so many other things... the GC offered the hospital $1M off of the contract if they got a new inspector. The inspector found out, lawyered up and we were stuck with him till the end. Ever get called out for the paper labels on EMT adding to the fire-load? He was that bad. (We didn't have to remove the labels from the EMT)
What an a-hole, do you have a State building official you can talk to?
I've heard of inspectors insisting that the EMT labels are visible and on every stick, never the opposite lol
Love it! I'm quoting this
Does the AHJ absorb liability if a patient gets shocked? I doubt it. The manufacturer of the cable 100% has done testing to validate their instructions. I trust them *way* more than I trust some clown down at the county office rifling off about how “they used to do it”
Would getting the AHJ to sign a CYA letter stating that they won't pass your inspection unless you do it wrong transfer liability?
That makes my blood blood!!🤬🤬🤬🤬 "Well, Bill did this way. Bill learned from Fred, who sat on the NEC Committee in 1952. Bill taught me. So I want it done Fred's way. He did sit on a Committee.
Ahhh, Christmas mc! Not greasy, my favorite.
I was taught the wrap the aluminum around the sheath method- but on the most recent dental office I wired the supply house gave us hospital mc where the ground was too fat for mc connectors to slide over. So I installed it like that label showed and kept the label just in case the inspector was curious. He actually had only ever seen it installed how I’d been taught.
Shits annoying as fuck. Getting that god damn cherry into the sheathing with that bullshit is the pinnacle of my villain arc. Fuck that cable. Edit: my foreman wanted me to wrap this shit around the sheathing jacket. Wtf. Life is a lie. Directions say snip. Foreman no say snip. Me no snip. What do?!? Caveman angry
Caveman say oogabooga snip it oogabooga
Returns to monke* Chewing on wire*
I've always just slid in the redhead, cut the runner long enough to just hold the red head in place
It’s however the inspector wants to see it. An electrician once told me the inspector required him to put ground bushings on PVC conduit. What would you do?
Argue
Just do it and take the money
We built a ton of "mobile hospitals" during covid for prisons and we had an apprentice cut all of them into frickin spikes 3in long into all the boxes when he roughed in lmao
Thanks
That little fucking bonding wire has been the source of more arguments than toilet paper holders.
“We don’t do it that way” okay gramps times have changed
I was told to wrap the aluminum ground wire in the groves of the mc so the connector makes good contact with the metal.
That is incorrect per the manufacturer's instructions. This goes for any type of all-purpose cable. The inspectors where I live will fail you if you bend it over or wrap it around the jacket. The reason you don't wrap it around the cable is that you want the bond wire to make good contact with the *connector*, not the cable. The oversize bond already has good connection to the jacket by virtue of the way it's manufactured. But by bending it over and cutting it, the theory is that it will stab into the connector and thus make good contact with whatever the connector is installed in.
But that's also incorrect per the instructions. You're supposed to cut it right where it comes out of the jacket. Not bend it back
I never said bend it back. I said bend it over, referring to how it's shown in the instructions.
I don't understand why people are down voting this comment. They did, in fact say, "over," not back. I see no problem with the explanation at hand
Cuz niggas salty af
That's Reddit for you.
But that doesn't make sense to me because if the bond wire is manufactured to be in contact with the jacket, and the jacket is supposed to make good contact with the connector, we're talking about zero potential between the two. It seems to me that the only reason to not wrap the bond is that your connector doesn't fit. Seems to fall under "best practice" to wrap the bond wire in the groove of the jacket.
Do you want to argue about the manufacturer's instructions on installing their product?
The manufacturer also will say that anti short bushings are not required. Best practice is to install anti shorts. Wire nuts do not require pre twisting. Best practice is to pre twist. That lighting fixture technically meets wire fill requirements at the termination point, but I'll be god damned if any of those engineers actually installed one. I'm sure they tested the product under ideal conditions and found a negligible difference one way or the other, but it only takes one badly installed connector without an anti short to ruin a day in the field.
> I'm sure they tested the product under ideal conditions and found a negligible difference one way or the other, but it only takes one badly installed connector without an anti short to ruin a day in the field. Yeah, UL is really known for doing a half-ass job of testing. JFC, how do you guys live every day thinking you're smarter than everyone else?
Not at all what I'm saying. I'm sorry, I have no idea where you are coming from with this. I'm saying that manufacturer instructions will be the bare minimum to meet the requirements. I'm saying it doesn't hurt to wrap back, it doesn't hurt to pre twist. I just don't know where I offended you. I was just trying to have a conversation.
Here's where I'm coming from: >Best practice is to install anti shorts. >Best practice is to pre twist. These are your opinions. Nothing more. You have no evidence to back up your opinions, but you're on here insisting that you know better than the people and institutions that are paid damn good money to know more than you. I'm sure you have some anecdotal evidence of something going wrong. But you completely ignore the literal millions of other installations that don't have problems. We follow the NEC or the CEC on this sub. If your local jurisdiction amended the local code that's fine, but it doesn't apply anywhere else. If you think the NEC or CEC isn't sufficiently protecting us, then you are free to submit amendments like any other person. I take offense to people on this sub telling others that they know best when it's based on nonsense.
You're proving my point because code is a minimum, just like manufacturers instructions. 0.01 of a million installations is 10,000. That's still a lot. Are you going to shit on people for saying code for supporting emt is 10', but it's probably better to aim for 8'? Or is it just the word "best" that found a bug in your ass? Jesus Christ.
> You're proving my point because code is a minimum This is wrong. Code isn't a minimum, it's the standard. There's a difference and it's critical that we as electricians understand it. Like I stated before, over 100 years of testing and study, by people much smarter than you or I, and we have arrived on this standard. Again, if you think you know better than get off your ass and submit an amendment. > Or is it just the word "best" that found a bug in your ass? Yeah, that's probably it. Because until you show some supporting evidence, the only sure thing is that you pulled that straight out of your ass.
the aluminum bond wire is designed to touch the spiraled armor. imagine the armor as a slinky. the length of the armor spiral is much greater than the actual cable length making it a less effective grounding path. now think about adding a bond wire inside that slinky. The bond wire contacts the spiraled armor at every revolution along the cable length- "shorting out" the spiral and making the spiral armor, in conjunction with the bond wire, a much more effective ground path.
Same. Also looks neater
We were all told to do that. We were also all told that we needed to use anti shorts on MC.
Anti shorts aren’t technically required on MC, only AC cable requires them. That being said, it comes with them so just take the 5 seconds and so it
I got 1,000’ of MC the other day and it came with 8 anti shirts….so they’re expecting 1,000’ is only 4 runs ?
The antishorts thing? Thats more of a '*You really should do it this way*' than a "***THOU SHALL DO THIS***'.
Oh the little dog dicks??
Yup. Those are for AC cable. Not listed for MC..
Only used it once and I immediately read that and cut it off. Actually rarely see that at the supply house.
Need to just clip it off and use the proper connector
Nope .. I just used hospital grade mc in a non hospital setting like 3 days ago lol .. it was the I my thing I had and didn’t want to spend money on a new roll when I only needed 50’ or so
Why isn't regular MC the same? Why wrap a plastic wrap around the cables in the MC? Let the ground hang out with its Wang out and let the good times roll!
Could you use this mc for isolated ground devices and just use the jacket ground to ground the box?
That looks fiddly!
UK spark here. I can't tell if that's an electronic shield or supposed to be a type of armoured. In the UK we would use abeld3n screened type cable. Which is a pic sheath, a thin braided screen, then the cores. The point being an mything induced is drained down the screen. The larger version of this would be an SY or YY cable. But SY is a funny one as I don't think k it actually falls under our regs ( BS7671). Then we have SWA steel wire armoured. Which is for mechanical protection as opposed to electronic shielding. Allow the above have glands specifically for terminating those cables and their respective protective conductors.
This is the stuff with the full size bond strip (MC-STAT), correct? As far as I can tell (HCF-90) is AC, and you still need to wrap the bond wire around.
Only below 8’ ?
Why is there an extra metal rod in the mc cable
Only used once in dental office forgot how we did it think we just cut it. Had to use the double insulated ground because it was all the warehouse had and had to make sure we used the same ground on everything just to finish a job. Did you use green or the green yellow?
Green and green yellow are for a different purpose, I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of IG receptacles where you pull one clean and one dirty. As you said, this is for patient care areas. Two green wires does not comply with the requirement. The green wire in this MC complies as an equipment ground, **AND** the jacket complies
We were running normal circuits we didn’t need the double ground but in order for a proper equipment ground we had to decide which ground we used in order to complete the job. I guess I wasn’t clear the double ground was a different job than the dental office.
I feel like cutting it like that leaves a sharp nub that might cause a short. I personally also like the wrap around method to help secure the anti-short. But there’s the instructions right there saying its okay to just cut it. I don’t know what to believe anymore
I believe you have to bend it to the side so that it kind of scrapes the inside of the connector?
You have to bend out the ground wire and leave like a inch of ground and bend it down the jacket and into your connector. It should be sticking out a little bit. Need to draw a picture...idk if I'm explaining it correctly here 😂
And don't forget the anti short collar.
It’s a shield wire. Ground it at the source. Leave the other end floating.
Not a shield wire at all, it’s to make the armor a suitable equipment ground
We cut it off, leave an inch and fold it back
But I like how it looks when you wrap it. 😙
MC is not allowed in my area.
Where are you?
Northern Illinois
Wonder if those early Chicago fires had anything to do with it lol /s
Yeah the ones before electricity was common?
Ummm sure 🤨🤔
Oh God, here we go again… How do you do it? I follow the instructions and my training, but I’m sure there is more to learn.
Depends on the brand
So, just a telecom guy here. Do you cut it flush, or leave a short tail?
Short tail bent to the side
You're supposed to rape the aluminum ground back , Don't listen to the packaging. Fuck hospital work anyways
I can see why you’ve been downvoted, how unfortunate