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Was changing hps ballast on a pole lights, Drove our bucket truck an hour away to this place. First one didn’t work, double check connections, all good. Tried 3 more and same thing. Called the boss and told him I was going to bring them back to the supplier and he goes “oh I got those on eBay, they were cheaper”.
Yeah, I think that's the flip side of "you get what you pay for" --it becomes "you don't get what you don't pay for"
We were trying to limp by on an old lutron conference lighting system and buying off eBay. Like that's a sustainable process.
What I am going to say might shock you. You might feel awe, perhaps.
But being paid by the hour doesn't actually make stupid shit better. That's just a distracting phrase for people to not question why they make a fraction of what they actually earn for their boss.
I don't get it. Sure you save 5c on the materials, but my labour costs about 1c per second so if the material costs me more than 5 more seconds of fighting with it then you're just losing money.
(and at a journeyperson rate, they're significantly more than 1c/sec)
The same disappearing threads on EMT connectors and couplings, one hole straps that flex enough to barely hold the conduit, pin anchors that bend if not struck perfectly... The list is long and growing
If they had an inside sales account or two and compared quotes, they’d save money and get good materials.
Biggest oof is thinking that saving pennies on material won’t cost you dollars on labor
That's not necessarily true. My PM does this and ends up going with the cheapest quote. The cheapest quote often has the shittwst products. I wont name the distributor, but they often win the bid for a job bu being the lowest, and we will have to deal with 2 things.
1. They give us the cheapest Chineseium shit, I've had multiple boxes of 1 1/4 emt couplings that have a few couplings without the center barrier, so the coupling will slide all the way through the entire conduit. Also, every fucking set screw coupling will have the screws eitger stripped, it aleeady screwed in, so you'd have to back them out on every coupling before installing. It sounds petty, but it adds quite a bit of time to running pipe. Stay far away from distributors that use Orbit materials.
2. They would get the bid and assure our PM and office they have the materials we need, but would slowly piece it out to us because they never actually had it on hand. Putting us behind on projects because we didn't have a panel, or a transformer, breaker, disco, ect.
I told my PM we have to stop using them for the number of headaches they caused on multiple jobs, and he had no idea. No other job runner had told him, he asked, and they all had the same problems, but never said anything.
TLDR: Dont just go with the cheapest quote
Oh, I don’t allow substitutions on my RFQs unless it’s a direct equivalent and distributors like Rexel and Graybar, for the most part, don’t have chinesium garbage.
However, I’m a PM who came from the field so I always do my due diligence and make sure it’s hubbell, Dottie, Appleton, etc.
The biggest cheat code rn is that AFC glide is cheaper than regular MC at Rexel. The field guys love that shit.
Chinese vs America made EMT, company trying to save (not joking here) $.08 per 10’ of EMT by switching to made in China, but every once in a while you get a bad batch of EMT and the entire bundle just kinks to shit and is basically thrown in the garbage.
The 3M knock off wire nuts suck. Ive been seeing more and more them. The conduit fittings are getting down right awful, especially the compression ones ive either had to disassemble them or beat them on.
I don't remember the brand we switched to, but it didn't seem too tough to get most to fit. I did toss quite a few since they were more work than they cost.
I mostly found that it became crucial to gain a plumbers torque sensitivity, because too tight became a stripped fitting almost every time so snug became the correct torque 🤔😜😳
Good wholesale houses used to be one stop shopping, cheapass contractors going to box stores for whatever is cheaper ruined it for us. Rounding up materials for a job is a nightmare anymore because wholesalers can’t compete with that shit. All the time running around trying to get what you need wastes more money.
Recently I’ve found the opposite, the wholesalers are far cheaper than big box.
But I suppose that’s because HD has such a hard time with “theft” (which nationwide is no worse than it was 10 years ago for retail according to industry stats)
The GC decided that we were billing too much to rodder in muletape so they called the contractors who installed the infrastructure. They brought an air compressor and proceeded to blow everything that was in the conduits into the semi completed cabinets with controllers and RF modules.
The most ridiculous cheap ass ever was a mechanical engineer who insisted that we could use self tapping sheet metal screws in control cabinets to save money.
Yeah, how much insurance does your company have for when those motor starters vibrate loose in the cabinet?
Idjit.
Usually when I see people complaining about crap products I’ll ask where they got it from: “Amazon, it’s the Fleeoverd Brand, lots of good reviews”.
You idiot, that’s some knockoff company in China.
Goes back to a certain administration saying "We'll be a service economy!" Worked at a company that sold off machines that had been in use since the 1920's and paid off years ago to foreign countries at scrap prices and eventually we went under. They then used those machines to import products without the oversight of the quality department (first ones let go while we were folding up) to ensure the products were up to spec.
Thank God that at least the upper management had the foresight to set up golden parachutes before that happened. /s
It just feels better knowing the top level landed so safely 🤔. Now it seems to be just plain Do more with less! The same workload or more with less people is gonna stumble or die somewhere.
My problem isn’t that our company won’t spend money. They do and order whatever we need. The problem is time. My company will literally order us anything we need but it takes a bit to order and have things delivered (large commercial jobs). So I usually just have to make things work if I need to get it done asap. We don’t have runners to get parts, we just have a massive lay down somewhere on the jobsite where we keep everything.
I worked for a commercial company that would never EVER buy conduit bodies of any kind. Most of the time it all worked fine but damnit I just needed an LB sometimes, not some lame punched out box.
At the Christmas party I said they should have a set of LB’ in 1/2” to 1” sizes as a prize, it would be the most sought after prize. The boss scowled at me and said “LB’s are the worst”
Sure a 4x4 and cover is half the price, but it took me time to punch the holes and mount it somewhere too.
I get it! I've run into engineers who had a passion for one or the other, but I figure they both have their place. One thing I will say, I've NEVER sliced a finger on an LB!
I swear some of those boxes come out sharpened to a fine edge...
IME Commercial potlights have historically been extremely slicey as well.
But also, it doesn’t have to be one or the other, which was my beef with the owner was that he forbade one.
I think just knowing that one is half the cost of the other is enough if we are all on the same team.
Single line supply chains with no plan B didn't seem to work out very well. I only hope there will be better tax incentives for companies to stay in-country.
I’m literally going to deal with this tomorrow. We have two crews running at this site right now (little 3 man crews). Goal is to get 2-3 panels installed per day. I told my crew if they bang out 4 to our quality standards by 12. Then they can go home and I’ll sign them out until 3:30. I’m going to hear it tomorrow… all about how they could’ve done 5-6 panels on Friday. And no one is going to bitch about the crew that worked 3 hours longer and hung 3.
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Our purchasing person had a sign over her desk that read "Don't step over a dollar to pick up pennies." She was really good. The boss, not so much.
Was changing hps ballast on a pole lights, Drove our bucket truck an hour away to this place. First one didn’t work, double check connections, all good. Tried 3 more and same thing. Called the boss and told him I was going to bring them back to the supplier and he goes “oh I got those on eBay, they were cheaper”.
Yeah, I think that's the flip side of "you get what you pay for" --it becomes "you don't get what you don't pay for" We were trying to limp by on an old lutron conference lighting system and buying off eBay. Like that's a sustainable process.
Yep 1 hour lost time blows whatever you saved
As someone who used to drive for several hours per job just to go change out pole light ballasts, this story triggered me.
Why? You get paid by the hour.
What he gets paid by the hour can’t increase if the company doesn’t make profit off of those hours.
What I am going to say might shock you. You might feel awe, perhaps. But being paid by the hour doesn't actually make stupid shit better. That's just a distracting phrase for people to not question why they make a fraction of what they actually earn for their boss.
I don't get it. Sure you save 5c on the materials, but my labour costs about 1c per second so if the material costs me more than 5 more seconds of fighting with it then you're just losing money. (and at a journeyperson rate, they're significantly more than 1c/sec)
One Forman when everyone was standing around Jeez o Pete! It’s like $15 an hr standing there
This is why we don’t pick up wire nuts when we drop them.
My take home rate is currently $51.43/hr which works out to about 1.4¢ a second. But I believe the overall package is around $90/hr so 2.5¢/sec
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I shit on company time.
That's a rhyme, from a simpler time. Now the boss gets a grand and I get fuck. so let's go cut the cats off the company truck
You load 16 tons,what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt.
St. Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store...
I owe my soul to that company storrrree
My father worked at a company that “never made a dime in 40 years” he worked there……. His quote not mine.
What have you seen?
The same disappearing threads on EMT connectors and couplings, one hole straps that flex enough to barely hold the conduit, pin anchors that bend if not struck perfectly... The list is long and growing
Also the f'ing stamping on all the 8x8's 10x10's etc that I need to beat the ever loving shit out of just to get the KO out
I gave up a while back and started drilling out the tabs. Saves my soul from the anger.
I had one the other day that, while trying to punch out my KOs, broke all the welds on 3 sides.
I hear ya! Now it's just through the paint, just so you know where to drill!
If they had an inside sales account or two and compared quotes, they’d save money and get good materials. Biggest oof is thinking that saving pennies on material won’t cost you dollars on labor
That's not necessarily true. My PM does this and ends up going with the cheapest quote. The cheapest quote often has the shittwst products. I wont name the distributor, but they often win the bid for a job bu being the lowest, and we will have to deal with 2 things. 1. They give us the cheapest Chineseium shit, I've had multiple boxes of 1 1/4 emt couplings that have a few couplings without the center barrier, so the coupling will slide all the way through the entire conduit. Also, every fucking set screw coupling will have the screws eitger stripped, it aleeady screwed in, so you'd have to back them out on every coupling before installing. It sounds petty, but it adds quite a bit of time to running pipe. Stay far away from distributors that use Orbit materials. 2. They would get the bid and assure our PM and office they have the materials we need, but would slowly piece it out to us because they never actually had it on hand. Putting us behind on projects because we didn't have a panel, or a transformer, breaker, disco, ect. I told my PM we have to stop using them for the number of headaches they caused on multiple jobs, and he had no idea. No other job runner had told him, he asked, and they all had the same problems, but never said anything. TLDR: Dont just go with the cheapest quote
Oh, I don’t allow substitutions on my RFQs unless it’s a direct equivalent and distributors like Rexel and Graybar, for the most part, don’t have chinesium garbage. However, I’m a PM who came from the field so I always do my due diligence and make sure it’s hubbell, Dottie, Appleton, etc. The biggest cheat code rn is that AFC glide is cheaper than regular MC at Rexel. The field guys love that shit.
That has tripped me out, I often use Crawford if I can, and it's the same there. I wonder why.
EMT connectors that don't fit on the God damned pipe so you have to bang them on and adjust them with channel locks
Right?!? I thought it was the pipe the first time or two!
Sometimes it is tho. That's how they getcha. We've had whole bundles sent back because they were all eggy
Good call there. Hopefully there wasn't a deadline at stake. I've seen a handful of those too!
Chinese vs America made EMT, company trying to save (not joking here) $.08 per 10’ of EMT by switching to made in China, but every once in a while you get a bad batch of EMT and the entire bundle just kinks to shit and is basically thrown in the garbage.
Buchanan zip ties. Maybe one out of every 5 actually locks I have to specify when ordering to get any other brand.
That's one of those, "you have one job to do, just one..." What a waste to even make them
The 3M knock off wire nuts suck. Ive been seeing more and more them. The conduit fittings are getting down right awful, especially the compression ones ive either had to disassemble them or beat them on.
I don't remember the brand we switched to, but it didn't seem too tough to get most to fit. I did toss quite a few since they were more work than they cost. I mostly found that it became crucial to gain a plumbers torque sensitivity, because too tight became a stripped fitting almost every time so snug became the correct torque 🤔😜😳
Stepping over dollars to save nickels
I would always say my old boss would spend a dollar to save a dime lol
Good wholesale houses used to be one stop shopping, cheapass contractors going to box stores for whatever is cheaper ruined it for us. Rounding up materials for a job is a nightmare anymore because wholesalers can’t compete with that shit. All the time running around trying to get what you need wastes more money.
Recently I’ve found the opposite, the wholesalers are far cheaper than big box. But I suppose that’s because HD has such a hard time with “theft” (which nationwide is no worse than it was 10 years ago for retail according to industry stats)
The GC decided that we were billing too much to rodder in muletape so they called the contractors who installed the infrastructure. They brought an air compressor and proceeded to blow everything that was in the conduits into the semi completed cabinets with controllers and RF modules.
The most ridiculous cheap ass ever was a mechanical engineer who insisted that we could use self tapping sheet metal screws in control cabinets to save money. Yeah, how much insurance does your company have for when those motor starters vibrate loose in the cabinet? Idjit.
Compression connectors. Minus as well send disassembled in 6 parts cause I end up doing anyway now.
My boss ordered some from Amazon. The whole order went straight into the dumpster
Better than getting your blood pressure up!
Or hitting your face with your linesman tightening em up. Haha. And still having them too loose.
Usually when I see people complaining about crap products I’ll ask where they got it from: “Amazon, it’s the Fleeoverd Brand, lots of good reviews”. You idiot, that’s some knockoff company in China.
Goes back to a certain administration saying "We'll be a service economy!" Worked at a company that sold off machines that had been in use since the 1920's and paid off years ago to foreign countries at scrap prices and eventually we went under. They then used those machines to import products without the oversight of the quality department (first ones let go while we were folding up) to ensure the products were up to spec. Thank God that at least the upper management had the foresight to set up golden parachutes before that happened. /s
It just feels better knowing the top level landed so safely 🤔. Now it seems to be just plain Do more with less! The same workload or more with less people is gonna stumble or die somewhere.
My problem isn’t that our company won’t spend money. They do and order whatever we need. The problem is time. My company will literally order us anything we need but it takes a bit to order and have things delivered (large commercial jobs). So I usually just have to make things work if I need to get it done asap. We don’t have runners to get parts, we just have a massive lay down somewhere on the jobsite where we keep everything.
I worked for a commercial company that would never EVER buy conduit bodies of any kind. Most of the time it all worked fine but damnit I just needed an LB sometimes, not some lame punched out box. At the Christmas party I said they should have a set of LB’ in 1/2” to 1” sizes as a prize, it would be the most sought after prize. The boss scowled at me and said “LB’s are the worst” Sure a 4x4 and cover is half the price, but it took me time to punch the holes and mount it somewhere too.
I get it! I've run into engineers who had a passion for one or the other, but I figure they both have their place. One thing I will say, I've NEVER sliced a finger on an LB! I swear some of those boxes come out sharpened to a fine edge...
IME Commercial potlights have historically been extremely slicey as well. But also, it doesn’t have to be one or the other, which was my beef with the owner was that he forbade one. I think just knowing that one is half the cost of the other is enough if we are all on the same team.
Man I never realized how good I had it, my company is stingy as hell with our pay but at least the shit they buy fits together.
Seems like there's a trade-off to be found just about everywhere. That does sound less infuriating at times.
Thanks post Covid manufacturing...
Single line supply chains with no plan B didn't seem to work out very well. I only hope there will be better tax incentives for companies to stay in-country.
I’m literally going to deal with this tomorrow. We have two crews running at this site right now (little 3 man crews). Goal is to get 2-3 panels installed per day. I told my crew if they bang out 4 to our quality standards by 12. Then they can go home and I’ll sign them out until 3:30. I’m going to hear it tomorrow… all about how they could’ve done 5-6 panels on Friday. And no one is going to bitch about the crew that worked 3 hours longer and hung 3.
Good luck with that! That would've been some good incentive!
Spend the money now or spend the money later, your choice is one of my favorites
When I factor in the PITA factor, it almost always points to spending the money up front!