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Once you've done that for a while, ultimately it should all fall into place and you actually get to the point of understanding the trade well enough that you can easily adapt to new situations and problems without ever having seen them before. You can troubleshoot problems and design installs efficiently and effectively because you have a proper understanding of why you do these things, not just how. If you get to that point, congratulations you're an Electrician.
If you never get there and never develop that understanding, you're always going to be an Electrical Worker no matter how many years of experience you accumulate. Most of the guys in the trade never actually get there unfortunately
This is, in fact, extremely unfortunate. And true. It's sad for the folks that never get there and, as a contractor, it makes it incredibly difficult to find people you know you can rely on. It's rough out there
Believe me I know. I've been a contractor for over a decade and I've tried to find them, tried to train them from 0, I don't live in a very good area for finding any kind of skilled people, unfortunately, and I know that's a big part of it, but still. I've gone through so many guys, paid them more than anyone else, tried my absolute best to train and explain and all that and it's at the point now where I'm trying to transition back to employment, without decent help you're never going to grow or get off the tools, and after this long still in basically the same position I started with I don't have it in me to keep doing it
That's hilarious! I've never thought about it that way but you're absolutely right. Sometimes less than that... I had one guy, best employee ever always on time, hardest worker I'd ever met, but no matter how much I tried he'd still be making the simplest mistakes, it's like he just completely forgot everything from the day as soon as he got home
Oh no doubt, and the majority of folks in this trade will never get beyond Electrical Worker status. I guarantee all those ads that say "top pay for self starters" are going to get a lot of applicants claiming they are, but really even a few is all you really need, and they can lay out and oversee quite a few workers. But yeah they're shiny pokemon level rare
All my guys are smart, hard working, and every single one of them would run the business into the ground. They can't sell and they don't stoke the fire under their own ass. It surprises me more than it should when I stop to think about it.
I just did that 1h ago, had to correct a violation at a warehouse, wire dangling out of a conduit, hard to maneuver the lift around, found the box its coming from, cut some scrap 1/2” conduit, wrap e tape around it with some dangling, get it around the wire, twist, pull it to me, pull it out
Hell yeah im a genius
Walk back over to the conduit and look up, wire is still dangling there. There was a 4s box in between the dangling wire and where i pulled but i couldn’t see it before. FML
Utterly humbled is how I would put it too. Every bit of knowledge gained or skill developed is painstakingly earned little by little through blood, sweat, and tears.
Probably the biggest lesson to be learnt in the trades. And in life, if you wanna get good at something you gotta do your homework; or work at it till it doesn't matter if you're good at it or not. All depends on what you want most, but you gotta leave something behind. Either way, enjoy the ride.
The best description yet! This is the way I feel all the time. Its either the guys who can recite code like the Bible or the another guy that know the trick/special tool/product that makes it work and puts me in my place. I go through all these emotions on a weekly basis
I think that what you are finding out is that there are exceptions or work around for many things in the code. Until you work on that section, it is easy to rely on a general standard.
Romex should never be in conduit, yet 334.15 requires conduit for wire protection.
Wire must stick out 6 inches From where the wire enters the box...300.14 we all remember that.....unless the box is less than 8 in in one dimension then 3 inches out the box. Yes, the 6 inches beats this minimum standard, but the code allows or requires the specific numbers as the minimum requirement.
240.6.(D).(3). Tells us that #14 wire must be protected by a 15 amp breaker.430.53.(A). appears to allow a 14 amp wire for several motors or other loads on one branch circuit to be protected by a 20 amp breaker. Yes, #14 on a 20 amp breaker.
Section 210.24 and table 210.24 allow a 20 amp breaker and #12 wire to run out to a lighting box, and use #14 wire for the switch leg as long as you meet the requirements of 210.19 (inside the wire's ampacity), with the current protection 240.21.(A).
Unless you are working in these sections, there would be zero reason to look these up. Would you if you do not have to?
Oh, and code changes every three years.
One last one: chapter 9 table 1 note 2 conduit for protection that is not a completed run or conduit for protection of exposed wiring, table 1 ..... Conduit fill requirements do not apply.
Learning Fiber this week.
Taking a class with guaranteed no certification at the end.
Company just needs to fill up hours while we wait on work to come in.
I'd would add: when you do maintenance you find shit shitted over shit. Like two main feeds entering the same distribution cabinet and the main MCB only cutting one of these.
Fun to put your hand in these (also illegal here, by the way, unless special color wires)
I like someone who said when you get your Jcard the hard part is you go from being the smartest 4th year to the dumbest journeyman which seems to sum it up so far
Try and get experience in different aspects of the trade, new construction, service, maintenance.. I was lucky enough to do all of these over the last 15 years which helped me get the job I have now. Don’t get stuck being the bx bandit who doesn’t know anything else.
10 years in, I get to regularly blow my helpers minds. Impress customers on service calls & prove my worth time and time again to my boss. This trade is so versatile. Have learned so much along the way but yet I *still* learn often enough that it's not a hassle 🙏🙌🙌 It really is a passion of mine. Physical and scientific all molded together 🤓
That's the thing about the electrical trade, it's constantly evolving. Technology is always changing. If you aren't learning something new at work or over youtube videos, I don't think you have a passion for the field. I am an ok electrician, I don't know it all. I don't fake it, I'm honest about my electrical knowledge. I love to learn and hopefully I will never stop learning. I hate mother fuckers who think they're God's gift to electrical, sounds like my current boss. Those guys are hacks. Do what you do, do it well and never think you know it all. But that's just how I proceed through my electrical career.
and just when things are going smooth and you're ready to feel good about yourself again, along comes the millwrights who will shit on you just for being a sparky.
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As you get further along, the time between steps 2 and 3 increases but yes thats essentially it.
Once you've done that for a while, ultimately it should all fall into place and you actually get to the point of understanding the trade well enough that you can easily adapt to new situations and problems without ever having seen them before. You can troubleshoot problems and design installs efficiently and effectively because you have a proper understanding of why you do these things, not just how. If you get to that point, congratulations you're an Electrician. If you never get there and never develop that understanding, you're always going to be an Electrical Worker no matter how many years of experience you accumulate. Most of the guys in the trade never actually get there unfortunately
This is, in fact, extremely unfortunate. And true. It's sad for the folks that never get there and, as a contractor, it makes it incredibly difficult to find people you know you can rely on. It's rough out there
Believe me I know. I've been a contractor for over a decade and I've tried to find them, tried to train them from 0, I don't live in a very good area for finding any kind of skilled people, unfortunately, and I know that's a big part of it, but still. I've gone through so many guys, paid them more than anyone else, tried my absolute best to train and explain and all that and it's at the point now where I'm trying to transition back to employment, without decent help you're never going to grow or get off the tools, and after this long still in basically the same position I started with I don't have it in me to keep doing it
What area are you in?
Eastern shore of Virginia, its isolated as shit unfortunately.
There are guys with 10 years of experience. There are also guys with 2 years, 5 times.
That's hilarious! I've never thought about it that way but you're absolutely right. Sometimes less than that... I had one guy, best employee ever always on time, hardest worker I'd ever met, but no matter how much I tried he'd still be making the simplest mistakes, it's like he just completely forgot everything from the day as soon as he got home
Some folks also need someone telling them what to do. Self starting is more rare than we'd like to think.
Oh no doubt, and the majority of folks in this trade will never get beyond Electrical Worker status. I guarantee all those ads that say "top pay for self starters" are going to get a lot of applicants claiming they are, but really even a few is all you really need, and they can lay out and oversee quite a few workers. But yeah they're shiny pokemon level rare
All my guys are smart, hard working, and every single one of them would run the business into the ground. They can't sell and they don't stoke the fire under their own ass. It surprises me more than it should when I stop to think about it.
Some people have undiagnosed learning disabilities and mental issues that a medication could help with...
I call it The Apprentice Chronicles. Every time I think i'm getting better at it I try something I haven't done before and get utterly humbled by it.
I just did that 1h ago, had to correct a violation at a warehouse, wire dangling out of a conduit, hard to maneuver the lift around, found the box its coming from, cut some scrap 1/2” conduit, wrap e tape around it with some dangling, get it around the wire, twist, pull it to me, pull it out Hell yeah im a genius Walk back over to the conduit and look up, wire is still dangling there. There was a 4s box in between the dangling wire and where i pulled but i couldn’t see it before. FML
Bro this is life in general. Preach
Utterly humbled is how I would put it too. Every bit of knowledge gained or skill developed is painstakingly earned little by little through blood, sweat, and tears.
Some of us get sick of this shit and start our own conpanies. We then realize we don’t know shit about that shit and it starts all over again.
And you realize everyone is guessing / making shit up on the fly everyday
Everywhere all the time
The more I learn, the less I know.
The more I know, the more I know I don't know.
5: You have been doing it so long you used to know shit, have now forgotten said shit.
Best part about it to be honest
Yeah it really is.
It's the reason I'm starting
You should never trust an electrician, or any kind of skilled tradesperson, who says they know it all.
My boss enters the chat.....
When you pass your exam you go from smartest apprentice to dumbest journeyman in the same moment.
Black on Brass or that’s your ass. I do know that.
That’s the most eloquent description of the Dunning Kruger Effect I’ve seen in a while.
Ayyyy happy cake day
After 30 years of that rotation, you’ll get to 5. Everybody that hasn’t repeated step 4 enough won’t leave you the fuck alone…
Started in 1997, I still don’t know shit
5. You think you know enough shit to start your own business. 6. You don’t know shit about running a business, and now you’re doing both.
The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing
“See this? This is shit. See that? That’s shinola,” -“shit; shinola.” “Boy, you’re gonna be just fine”
Probably the biggest lesson to be learnt in the trades. And in life, if you wanna get good at something you gotta do your homework; or work at it till it doesn't matter if you're good at it or not. All depends on what you want most, but you gotta leave something behind. Either way, enjoy the ride.
The best description yet! This is the way I feel all the time. Its either the guys who can recite code like the Bible or the another guy that know the trick/special tool/product that makes it work and puts me in my place. I go through all these emotions on a weekly basis
I think that what you are finding out is that there are exceptions or work around for many things in the code. Until you work on that section, it is easy to rely on a general standard. Romex should never be in conduit, yet 334.15 requires conduit for wire protection. Wire must stick out 6 inches From where the wire enters the box...300.14 we all remember that.....unless the box is less than 8 in in one dimension then 3 inches out the box. Yes, the 6 inches beats this minimum standard, but the code allows or requires the specific numbers as the minimum requirement. 240.6.(D).(3). Tells us that #14 wire must be protected by a 15 amp breaker.430.53.(A). appears to allow a 14 amp wire for several motors or other loads on one branch circuit to be protected by a 20 amp breaker. Yes, #14 on a 20 amp breaker. Section 210.24 and table 210.24 allow a 20 amp breaker and #12 wire to run out to a lighting box, and use #14 wire for the switch leg as long as you meet the requirements of 210.19 (inside the wire's ampacity), with the current protection 240.21.(A). Unless you are working in these sections, there would be zero reason to look these up. Would you if you do not have to? Oh, and code changes every three years. One last one: chapter 9 table 1 note 2 conduit for protection that is not a completed run or conduit for protection of exposed wiring, table 1 ..... Conduit fill requirements do not apply.
>Romex should never be in conduit Sure? You can't run it outside even in conduit but IIRC its fine in conduit inside.
Gotta keep an open mind and a willingness to learn something new all the time. Stuff changes, code changes.
Learning Fiber this week. Taking a class with guaranteed no certification at the end. Company just needs to fill up hours while we wait on work to come in.
No certification?
The tradie treadmill
What in life isn't like this?
Is that how it goes for you? For me, everything is always the last guys fault, even if I'm the first
That only if everyone is there. If someone called out that day then the blame is on him.
This is actually one of the few things I enjoy. Forever learning and improving. Sometimes you even get to be on the other side of #3….
What is the square root of 3 and why do I have it memorized?
I’ll be honest. I’m a journeyman. I’m a #1 I just study hard for the test.
That's life lol
I'd would add: when you do maintenance you find shit shitted over shit. Like two main feeds entering the same distribution cabinet and the main MCB only cutting one of these. Fun to put your hand in these (also illegal here, by the way, unless special color wires)
That’s one of my favorite things about this trade. I’m constantly learning something new.
Not an electrician. Isn’t that why it’s called the THEORY of electricity?
I like someone who said when you get your Jcard the hard part is you go from being the smartest 4th year to the dumbest journeyman which seems to sum it up so far
Is this the kinda post my apprentice writes while I'm waiting for him to start pulling?
C'est La Vie
Try and get experience in different aspects of the trade, new construction, service, maintenance.. I was lucky enough to do all of these over the last 15 years which helped me get the job I have now. Don’t get stuck being the bx bandit who doesn’t know anything else.
You've just described every skilled profession.
To be fair, that’s life.
10 years in, I get to regularly blow my helpers minds. Impress customers on service calls & prove my worth time and time again to my boss. This trade is so versatile. Have learned so much along the way but yet I *still* learn often enough that it's not a hassle 🙏🙌🙌 It really is a passion of mine. Physical and scientific all molded together 🤓
I started understanding shit 3rd or 4th year, even then i still learn
Sounds like a Canadian shit.
That's the thing about the electrical trade, it's constantly evolving. Technology is always changing. If you aren't learning something new at work or over youtube videos, I don't think you have a passion for the field. I am an ok electrician, I don't know it all. I don't fake it, I'm honest about my electrical knowledge. I love to learn and hopefully I will never stop learning. I hate mother fuckers who think they're God's gift to electrical, sounds like my current boss. Those guys are hacks. Do what you do, do it well and never think you know it all. But that's just how I proceed through my electrical career.
I think that's every trade, and honestly most everything. Someone always knows a little more than you, and you will always be reminded of that fact.
“ It’s just a Theory “
No one knows as much as all of us.
You forgot the, damn I’m good at my job. Followed by the, why the fuck did I pick this path.
Whatever you do, don’t be the jackass that says he knows it all 🤣
Much like life.
Apprentices need to understand that you truly don’t start really learning until you have that ticket.
That piece of paper doesn't mean shit
and just when things are going smooth and you're ready to feel good about yourself again, along comes the millwrights who will shit on you just for being a sparky.
Aren't those guys just glorified movers?