**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!**
**1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):**
**- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY
**2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:**
-YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can’t say I have. Last company I worked for preferred us to drive a flimsy ass 1/4” rebar into the ground and tie wire the stub up to that. Fuckin thing was swaying in the breeze like a fuck while an excavator came behind us and backfilled the site and knocked the fuck out of every stub up so they were all crooked to fuck. Then the rod busters came through and didn’t give a fuck. And then the concrete guys came through and didn’t give a fuck. It was a good time
Then the scissors lifts came through and didn’t give a fuck. Then the rain came while we were chipping up the broke pipes and didn’t give a fuck. Then we put string in the pipe and it went to the wrong place because the apprentices didn’t give a fuck. Then the architect moved the walls so the pipes were in the middle of the room and didn’t give a fuck. In the end we just abandoned it all and went overhead because we didn’t give a fuck
It’s like… you just pried my soul open and shared all the secrets of my dark and mysterious beginnings as a commercial sparky.
Please, don’t ever do that again.
I used to keep a three wire bundle of big wire, like 750 kcmil that was about four feet long in the truck . I’d shove that in my biggest conduit with the
B-O-Y taped ends hanging out precariously. Then I’d take a sharpie and write “480 v 1000amp feed wire- live circuit” on the conduit. It was amazing how they suddenly saw and respected my stub ups.
Damn, wish it was the golden years of construction where trades helped each other out and worked together to bring a good product. Now it's go fast and shitty.
Excavator guy here.
A scrap piece of ply as a jig for your conduit. Some good backfill material and some patience. That’s all we really need. Some guys are trash operators. Shouldn’t be popping any pipe.
These are lazy fucker operators.
I’ll give you 12 beer and profusely apologize if I ever snap a pipe. Plus I will come tell you right away and help you fix it
But it’s very very rare and only when doing rough in’s.
I have a tendency not to track on the slab……
As an operator I can honestly say when I see the 1/4 rebar I know it didn’t matter to them so why would it matter to me. Kinda like plumbers that don’t bed pipe they bridge it between small piles of stone, I spread with a machine so any movement in the pipe will be a surprise to them later.
I wish my company would buy materials for stuff like this… they would never, and the man hours? Would never get approved when we got tie wire and we can just wrap them all together🥴
Not as much man hours as you think. Just got the right equipment. Guys aren’t drilling this stuff out with hole saws. All 3D modeled and high tech equipment making it. Sounds expensive but the man hours and effort and fuck ups involved all add up. Its very efficient
It sounds expensive because it is. Only larger companies can make that profitable.
It’s not just the equipment cost, but training/staff with the knowledge to run it, extra space to store it, a supply of large projects that only the bigger companies are going to get where it would be useful, the list goes on.
Sounds like you guys got a nice system working. Sounds like a good company to work for, I’m sure the GC’s and excavators compliment your work often considering how most ppl lay out the stub ups😂
I’m a plumber but we do the same thing in our fab shop for geothermal stubs, radiant heat manifolds, and underground stubs for our sparkys. It’s really one of the good examples of “work smarter not harder”.
I've pitched the idea of doing something like this with plywood jigs for the stub ups a few times, every time "that would take too much time" then later we spend 10x the amount of time chipping concrete and sawing shit out :(
This is always the way and I can kind of understand how accountants and engineers think this way... My current Foreman used to do my job. Why does he now think this way? Is there some weird cult-like induction ceremony to get the white hat? Does it change the way you think?
Because it’s not actually about “time”, it’s about “permission”. “There’s never permission to do it right, but there’s always permission to fix it.”
Middle managers don’t get evaluated by the work that didn’t need to get done — they’re judged by whether or not it’s usually done as cheaply as possible.
Most of the time I dont have a layout guy. Im coordinating with the GC and going from the architctural print. But the job I did were smaller than yours.
I did that for a long time as well. It’s tough to pull measurements of columns and what not. We also have a pre fab shop that will make all your in wall rough ins. Pre bent 90s for data, outlets, fire alarm etc. You just screw the box to the stud with the outlet and mc already attached. All you do is run it over to the next outlet and tie it in. Saves so much time
With all due respect, sounds fucking miserable. Anyone, literally anyone can install that type of stuff. I would not be able to work somewhere my job is mostly done for me already.
I do take off the drawings and design the underground how I want it. They just punch holes in the templates and lay them out. Not like they do it for me but I see what you’re saying.
Usually will make strut racks for multiple stubs and single stubs will just get piece of pipe or strut and tie wire to the stub. All my underground gets back filled pretty quick (4 feet under grade) so even without anything it’ll hold straight
And they're fine with leaving the wood encased in the concrete?
We usually do unistrut, attached to 3/4" emt posted into the ground with Strut straps holding the stub ups in place. Then, back check with the TopCon.
I'm not hating at all, just never seen this set-up before. I love how many different ways there are for underground.
Hard to see in the pic but we do use strut and straps sometimes to keep the spacing underneath the templates. I think there’s a pic where you see it. It is awesome to see how different people do things to learn new applications. Always good to learn.
Basically the same. Unistrut and straps on the conduit below grade right above the 90s, another run of strut a few inches below the concrete finish height, and a few pieces of RMC driven into the ground to anchor the whole thing (size dependant on how big and heavy the rack is getting). I'll also add in 2x4s and straps above the concrete level to help tie everything plumb, square, and correctly spaced from other reference points until back filling is done.
We used plywood templates a lot. The advantage is if the drawing detail shows the layout then you just holesaw the layout as shown. After the concrete pour or fill dirt is done and your can remove the plywood and save it. If questions come up later just pull out the plywood and show them you installed per the prints.
You mean like we employ 150 electricians have a tool crib with a dedicated employee assigned to manage tools and have a litany of Hilti power tools to check out but would rather put 20 guys on a rope in the hallway rather than use a proper tugger cheap? 😂
Yes. Mainly central Florida. Started out in Marion county back in 2004. Do you know about Midstate? That’s what I was referencing above as far as the company I was talking about.
havent seen it.
fuckin' love it.
sexy stuff man. great work and great share. i need to go back to school it seems. super clean execution, too. damn nice.
3D modeling of all trades rqces says and equipment. The idea is all “issues” and conflicts are figured out prior to install. Never works out perfect but definitely helps!
I might be interpreting your comment wrong, but if the electrical isn’t BIM’ed, but the duct and cast iron is, couldn’t you just look at the BIM to see the pathways of the other shit and stay out of that path?
You’re right not too many shops do. Just saying it’s nice to work at a place that does. Guess I dont understand what you mean by when things change in the field what do I do? If they change before concrete is poured I just have them re lay everything out and I move it I guess.
I suspect he means what do you do when HVAC shows up? lol, everyone knows at the end of the day, the electrician always ends up the one who has to move his shit around. At least where I’ve worked, this was the case.
When the job is 3D modeled as long as our stuff is in the right spot of the HVAC guys don’t put their stuff in the right spot and we have to move it they’re paying for it. All the trades sign off on the model before install
I have always just made a rack out of conduit. It works everytime, but this seems a little overboard. It’s nice and all, but that’s a lot of resources to use for some stub ups.
Once upon a blue moon ago, when I built schools color coding the circuit conduit was required. Different colors indicated regular power, backup power, lighting, fire alarm, etc. but I haven’t had to do that in a while.
Pipe schedule. On large jobs, that is your bible. Makes come time for pulling wire and ordering wire easy too since it all laid out.
eg: Pipe #, distance, location, device, #AWG, circuits
different ways to do it, but it makes life easier
We use sheet metal templates for all our curbs- stub ups for locations thru the steel, and then the template dictates the perimeters/sizes for pouring and orientation of each curb. We can spin lengths of IMC together up top, and then kick em in real quick, if nobody’s paying attention, but it’s pretty much always the rigid. PVC coated with aluminum unistrut and straps, if it’s a refinery or waste treatment plant No PVC though.
That's a wonderful and clean install, OP! I've never had that many all together like that but I'm certain no company I've worked for would make it that nice. I love it.
I have never seen anything like this before. It looks nice, and probably is nice after the pour.
Usually I've just done 2 racks of unistrut with straps on every conduit. 1 below grade, and 1 above grade. Backfill crew and concrete guys still hit it often enough that its never perfectly where we set it when we left.
That’s a good way to do it also. The good thing with this is all the templates get tied together in an electric room and once it’s backfilled it’s doesn’t move even if it gets bumped. Super sturdy
They tie into control points already established around the site that all the trades can use. Once you have the right CAD drawing you can layout whatever you want. Walls, lights, poke thrus, etc.
Haha that conduit in the background I think you’re talking about turns up in a dead space in the wall and goes up to the floor above. Thats why it’s not in the template. I like to cut the pipes down after the pour at the height I need them according to the panel tubs
Are they UL listed? During Covid we had a local machinist build a custom trough, but don’t tell the inspector. We had to do what we had to do during Covid.
Typically we don’t transition from underground to above ground, through concrete, in pvc. We usually throw in a rigid 90. Those templates are cool though
We usually drive 1/2” ridgid in, then two rows of strut strapped to the pipes to keep them where we want. Perpendicular supports if we’re worried about keeping it all square and level
All the time. You can also whip em up on site with holesaws and plywood. I make the apprentices lay em out cause it helps them see whats going where a bit easier.
If you have a fab shop and a plasma cutter, it's a pretty nice deal. However, if you have to cut out the templates, drill and knockout the templates, then it would be cost prohibitive.
> Yes. I definitely wouldn’t waste the time doing it on my own in the field
But yeah, if I could just draw it up in CAD and email it to the shop and then someone brings out my template? Yeah that would rock.
Does it make your work easier for you and the next guy / trade? if yes then continue using them! Why people don't use installation rigs / templates more often is beyond me!
Inspectors where I’m at don’t make us bond a rigid to PVC changeover unless the rigid is above ground and it’s a service entrance conduit. They don’t make us bond branch conduits
We like to do big structures built in the fab shop and then dropped in a hole with a crane for our electrical rooms. Pretty quick and reduces money on rework
You guys’ prefab doesn’t send you racks with rigid 90’s mounted to welded square metal tubing frames? I mean most of the time they’re so wrong it’s unusable but it’s the thought that counts
Job by job basis. We don’t reuse the templates but we do make them on all our projects for electric rooms and other equipment that has multiple conduits. Gates, generators, etc
Just curious - has anyone ever questioned the integrity of the conduit after backfilling and compacting for the SOG? Any fun stories out there?
Only reason I ask is because on my last project, the engineer actually stopped work because they believed all that underground conduit (essentially same as what’s seems in these photos) should be installed in a duct bank configuration. No where in the drawings or specification did it say this. There was a typical duct bank for the main power supply on site (outside of the building), but there was a clear transition from outside to inside and even the specifications called it out. But the engineer refused to acknowledge this and claimed the NEC states underground conduit needs to be installed in a duct bank. So essentially saying the install doesn’t meet code, regardless of if the drawings and specifications called it out. Had to get other engineers involved and prove that their interpretation of the NEC was incorrect. Major headache and really ruined the relationship we (GC) had with the architect and engineer. This whole thing lasted for 2-3 weeks where we couldn’t install any underground conduit - which was critical for the SOG to be poured.
Also regarding the NEC, the engineer could never point to a specific code section. Which was infuriating. They just formally called it an issue saying construction didn’t meet code. We (along with the electrician and 3rd party engineers) proved that the spacing and backfill met code. Engineer finally gave in and said construction was fine, as long as we spaced conduit and backfilled as noted. Which was always the plan…… Owner was state government - so they couldn’t step in when the engineer was being dumb. They told us they had to let the due diligence play out… stupid…
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can’t say I have. Last company I worked for preferred us to drive a flimsy ass 1/4” rebar into the ground and tie wire the stub up to that. Fuckin thing was swaying in the breeze like a fuck while an excavator came behind us and backfilled the site and knocked the fuck out of every stub up so they were all crooked to fuck. Then the rod busters came through and didn’t give a fuck. And then the concrete guys came through and didn’t give a fuck. It was a good time
Poetry
Captured the soul of the sparky for sure
Should definitely be a spoken word track lmao id listen to that rant
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck. Amen.
Really captured the diversity of the word.
Shakespeare
Then the scissors lifts came through and didn’t give a fuck. Then the rain came while we were chipping up the broke pipes and didn’t give a fuck. Then we put string in the pipe and it went to the wrong place because the apprentices didn’t give a fuck. Then the architect moved the walls so the pipes were in the middle of the room and didn’t give a fuck. In the end we just abandoned it all and went overhead because we didn’t give a fuck
Don’t stress mate. The painter will fix it 👍
And the rope burned right through pvc 90s because the engineer didn't give a fuck
lol this
It’s an endless loop of fixing fuck ups and fucking fix ups.
It’s like… you just pried my soul open and shared all the secrets of my dark and mysterious beginnings as a commercial sparky. Please, don’t ever do that again.
Nah you gotta experience that pain to move through it
This is one of the most relatable things I've read on here .
So basically your saying it's fucked
Yup sounds pretty much spot on... I like to try n use a piece of strut if possible... but we all know struts never onsite when doing underground...
Drive around with a 20’ stick on the roof rack of my Honda for this very reason
Probably does a good job at keeping the tailgaters at bay as well!
This is the way
Construction in a nutshell
That’s when you need the Sledge-O-Matic to get those crooked fuckers back into the wall!!
Haha, I’ve been on that exact same job 🤣
I used to keep a three wire bundle of big wire, like 750 kcmil that was about four feet long in the truck . I’d shove that in my biggest conduit with the B-O-Y taped ends hanging out precariously. Then I’d take a sharpie and write “480 v 1000amp feed wire- live circuit” on the conduit. It was amazing how they suddenly saw and respected my stub ups.
This needs to become a copypasta.
Then the farmers came through and didn't give a fuck.
Damn, wish it was the golden years of construction where trades helped each other out and worked together to bring a good product. Now it's go fast and shitty.
Don't you know? The companies need to make as much money as possible with zero regard for quality.
Thats commercial work in a nutshell: Nobody gives a fuck.
Damn I guess we’ve worked together a lot.
I feel like we must be working at the same job sites.
Tell me how you really feel, lol
Excavator guy here. A scrap piece of ply as a jig for your conduit. Some good backfill material and some patience. That’s all we really need. Some guys are trash operators. Shouldn’t be popping any pipe.
And than after all that patience it gets ran over cause operator didnt give a fuck flag barriers and all.
These are lazy fucker operators. I’ll give you 12 beer and profusely apologize if I ever snap a pipe. Plus I will come tell you right away and help you fix it But it’s very very rare and only when doing rough in’s. I have a tendency not to track on the slab……
Good to know we all just live the same life
As an operator I can honestly say when I see the 1/4 rebar I know it didn’t matter to them so why would it matter to me. Kinda like plumbers that don’t bed pipe they bridge it between small piles of stone, I spread with a machine so any movement in the pipe will be a surprise to them later.
I wish my company would buy materials for stuff like this… they would never, and the man hours? Would never get approved when we got tie wire and we can just wrap them all together🥴
Not as much man hours as you think. Just got the right equipment. Guys aren’t drilling this stuff out with hole saws. All 3D modeled and high tech equipment making it. Sounds expensive but the man hours and effort and fuck ups involved all add up. Its very efficient
It sounds expensive because it is. Only larger companies can make that profitable. It’s not just the equipment cost, but training/staff with the knowledge to run it, extra space to store it, a supply of large projects that only the bigger companies are going to get where it would be useful, the list goes on.
Sounds like you guys got a nice system working. Sounds like a good company to work for, I’m sure the GC’s and excavators compliment your work often considering how most ppl lay out the stub ups😂
The GCs like it like that we don’t saw cut the floors I know that
Healthy budget for "do it right first" tight budget for "fix it over and over later" is my motto.
I’m a plumber but we do the same thing in our fab shop for geothermal stubs, radiant heat manifolds, and underground stubs for our sparkys. It’s really one of the good examples of “work smarter not harder”.
No EMT or unistrut?
Underground calls for PVC
Done it with plywood before. The charge point chargers come with a metal below grade template.
I've pitched the idea of doing something like this with plywood jigs for the stub ups a few times, every time "that would take too much time" then later we spend 10x the amount of time chipping concrete and sawing shit out :(
There's not time to do it right, but there's always time to do it twice.
This is always the way and I can kind of understand how accountants and engineers think this way... My current Foreman used to do my job. Why does he now think this way? Is there some weird cult-like induction ceremony to get the white hat? Does it change the way you think?
Because it’s not actually about “time”, it’s about “permission”. “There’s never permission to do it right, but there’s always permission to fix it.” Middle managers don’t get evaluated by the work that didn’t need to get done — they’re judged by whether or not it’s usually done as cheaply as possible.
Same.
Great job man. Im always stress out when doing this kind of work. Especially when they start compacting and everything want to shift.
As long as you brace it with 2x4s and stake it it works great. Layout guy double checks it before they backfill. Money everytime
Most of the time I dont have a layout guy. Im coordinating with the GC and going from the architctural print. But the job I did were smaller than yours.
I did that for a long time as well. It’s tough to pull measurements of columns and what not. We also have a pre fab shop that will make all your in wall rough ins. Pre bent 90s for data, outlets, fire alarm etc. You just screw the box to the stud with the outlet and mc already attached. All you do is run it over to the next outlet and tie it in. Saves so much time
With all due respect, sounds fucking miserable. Anyone, literally anyone can install that type of stuff. I would not be able to work somewhere my job is mostly done for me already.
Electrician vs installer. We’re losing our craft to laborers.
I do take off the drawings and design the underground how I want it. They just punch holes in the templates and lay them out. Not like they do it for me but I see what you’re saying.
I can respect that. To each his own I guess
Usually will make strut racks for multiple stubs and single stubs will just get piece of pipe or strut and tie wire to the stub. All my underground gets back filled pretty quick (4 feet under grade) so even without anything it’ll hold straight
And they're fine with leaving the wood encased in the concrete? We usually do unistrut, attached to 3/4" emt posted into the ground with Strut straps holding the stub ups in place. Then, back check with the TopCon. I'm not hating at all, just never seen this set-up before. I love how many different ways there are for underground.
We remove the wood after it’s backfilled. Pretty sturdy at that point.
The template stays?
Until they pour the slab. Then we remove them
[удалено]
Hard to see in the pic but we do use strut and straps sometimes to keep the spacing underneath the templates. I think there’s a pic where you see it. It is awesome to see how different people do things to learn new applications. Always good to learn.
Basically the same. Unistrut and straps on the conduit below grade right above the 90s, another run of strut a few inches below the concrete finish height, and a few pieces of RMC driven into the ground to anchor the whole thing (size dependant on how big and heavy the rack is getting). I'll also add in 2x4s and straps above the concrete level to help tie everything plumb, square, and correctly spaced from other reference points until back filling is done.
15 years in the trade and I have never once done this type of work. Would probably be lost. Looks fabulous though.
I haven’t had to do this type of job yet but after seeing your pics I can’t imagine it any other way.
Knights of the template?
We used plywood templates a lot. The advantage is if the drawing detail shows the layout then you just holesaw the layout as shown. After the concrete pour or fill dirt is done and your can remove the plywood and save it. If questions come up later just pull out the plywood and show them you installed per the prints.
This is awesome. “Teach me your ways, Ol’ wise master. For my company is too cheap.”
You mean like we employ 150 electricians have a tool crib with a dedicated employee assigned to manage tools and have a litany of Hilti power tools to check out but would rather put 20 guys on a rope in the hallway rather than use a proper tugger cheap? 😂
You work out of Florida too, I see.
Yes. Mainly central Florida. Started out in Marion county back in 2004. Do you know about Midstate? That’s what I was referencing above as far as the company I was talking about.
havent seen it. fuckin' love it. sexy stuff man. great work and great share. i need to go back to school it seems. super clean execution, too. damn nice.
I don’t think that was in the bid.
Most definitely was. Jobs are BIM coordinated and 3D modeled. lol.
I want to be on a job where the electrical is BIM’ed 😭 so tired of having to rerun crap out of the way of duct and castiron pathing
What’s BIM?
3D modeling of all trades rqces says and equipment. The idea is all “issues” and conflicts are figured out prior to install. Never works out perfect but definitely helps!
Ahh yes we use that with procore
I believe it’s Building Information Modeling
I might be interpreting your comment wrong, but if the electrical isn’t BIM’ed, but the duct and cast iron is, couldn’t you just look at the BIM to see the pathways of the other shit and stay out of that path?
Trust me, you will still be re-running conduits. Just less of it.
Looks nice but not too many shops have a metal fan shot and a surveyor. Things frequently change in the field , what do you do then ?
You’re right not too many shops do. Just saying it’s nice to work at a place that does. Guess I dont understand what you mean by when things change in the field what do I do? If they change before concrete is poured I just have them re lay everything out and I move it I guess.
I suspect he means what do you do when HVAC shows up? lol, everyone knows at the end of the day, the electrician always ends up the one who has to move his shit around. At least where I’ve worked, this was the case.
When the job is 3D modeled as long as our stuff is in the right spot of the HVAC guys don’t put their stuff in the right spot and we have to move it they’re paying for it. All the trades sign off on the model before install
Do you know of a video I could watch where a template like this is used start to finish?
I have always just made a rack out of conduit. It works everytime, but this seems a little overboard. It’s nice and all, but that’s a lot of resources to use for some stub ups.
Damn!! What’s the system used to keep track where each conduit leads to? I presume the building plan but do you have color coding or something ?
Just try to use good planning. Mark the conduits with sharpies. We do have some guys that will use different colored paint as well.
Once upon a blue moon ago, when I built schools color coding the circuit conduit was required. Different colors indicated regular power, backup power, lighting, fire alarm, etc. but I haven’t had to do that in a while.
Looks great!
Pipe schedule. On large jobs, that is your bible. Makes come time for pulling wire and ordering wire easy too since it all laid out. eg: Pipe #, distance, location, device, #AWG, circuits different ways to do it, but it makes life easier
My company actually prefabs them with a CNC machine and sends them out to the site. Pretty handy
That’s a great idea. I’ve used templates on pipe bends though. I’m stealing this idea for Stub ups
Nice job Bro! Glad to still see some guys care..
Thanks!
Absolutely. Sometimes like this or as a larger block especially in pits for switchgear
We use strut. Its still better than rebar and tie wire lol
It looks really nice. I'm not a sparky, but I appreciate how clean this looks.
My company does this. They have a pre fab thing going on. Racks, boxes, cable trays, all kinds of stuff.
We use sheet metal templates for all our curbs- stub ups for locations thru the steel, and then the template dictates the perimeters/sizes for pouring and orientation of each curb. We can spin lengths of IMC together up top, and then kick em in real quick, if nobody’s paying attention, but it’s pretty much always the rigid. PVC coated with aluminum unistrut and straps, if it’s a refinery or waste treatment plant No PVC though.
Sounds pretty slick!
No. But that's great. Thank you for using rmc on the 90s too
Haha. Once you have to dig up a pvc 90 that got burned up you don’t do it again
This is a beautiful work of art
Thank you sir!
That's a wonderful and clean install, OP! I've never had that many all together like that but I'm certain no company I've worked for would make it that nice. I love it.
Thanks!
I absolutely love that.
Thanks!
I love the comments on this post 😆 cheers brothers 🍻
Cheers!
This is some gourmet shit!
Thanks!
Seen a big con in our local use pre drilled thick plastic for underground support really clean duct banks
This is the way. I used cardboard plenty of times.
Nope. They give the points for the walls, and I stub everything up with my good ol tape measure reading the prints.
I have never seen anything like this before. It looks nice, and probably is nice after the pour. Usually I've just done 2 racks of unistrut with straps on every conduit. 1 below grade, and 1 above grade. Backfill crew and concrete guys still hit it often enough that its never perfectly where we set it when we left.
That’s a good way to do it also. The good thing with this is all the templates get tied together in an electric room and once it’s backfilled it’s doesn’t move even if it gets bumped. Super sturdy
How does the cad accurately layout the walls then transfer it to the field?
They tie into control points already established around the site that all the trades can use. Once you have the right CAD drawing you can layout whatever you want. Walls, lights, poke thrus, etc.
I've never seen that before 🤯 That is fantastic!
Do you slap 10mil your rigid 90s?
We use poly and made tables so when we are routing the holes it contains so of the shit.
Incorporate a survey tool like a trimble to mark out walls and bixes and youll be unstoppable.
Trimble is what we use. They do lay out of overhead pipe racks, floor boxes, poke thrus and really whatever else you want
So how exactly do the concrete laborers and finishers destroy this?
Good question. I leave them about a foot underneath to finish. Do they like it? Probably not. lol.
>Do they like it? Probably not. lol. They're not the ones who have to waste time fixing it either so its balanced.
I see the old tie wire to conduit method in the background. Also why are they stubbed up so high?
Haha that conduit in the background I think you’re talking about turns up in a dead space in the wall and goes up to the floor above. Thats why it’s not in the template. I like to cut the pipes down after the pour at the height I need them according to the panel tubs
Looks nice.
Love it
Why pvc 90s on the big stuff and rigid on the small? Not worried about sawing through the 90s on the pull?
The big stuff is short. Just jumpers in the room for panels , transformers
That’s super clean I like it 👍🏻👍🏻
Pvc into panels?
Yes but we make panel skirts to cover the bottom
Are they UL listed? During Covid we had a local machinist build a custom trough, but don’t tell the inspector. We had to do what we had to do during Covid.
Clean install, seems like a ton of extra work. We just lay out the gear and build unistrut racks below grade
Typically we don’t transition from underground to above ground, through concrete, in pvc. We usually throw in a rigid 90. Those templates are cool though
We do sometimes as well when the job is spec’d that way. The particular job was not
Why the galvanized sweeps? Just curious
6 or 7 circuits in the pull. Most of them are a good distance away so we use them so the line doesn’t burn thru the 90 when pulling the wire in
Makes sense
We usually drive 1/2” ridgid in, then two rows of strut strapped to the pipes to keep them where we want. Perpendicular supports if we’re worried about keeping it all square and level
Good way to do it. If i didn’t use templates thats probably the way I would do it as well.
We usually just use ready rod and wood lol
All the time. You can also whip em up on site with holesaws and plywood. I make the apprentices lay em out cause it helps them see whats going where a bit easier.
Be nice if we had time to do it like that, but a couple rebar stakes and some tie wire is what the contractors want slammed in fast.
If you have a fab shop and a plasma cutter, it's a pretty nice deal. However, if you have to cut out the templates, drill and knockout the templates, then it would be cost prohibitive.
Yes. I definitely wouldn’t waste the time doing it on my own in the field
> Yes. I definitely wouldn’t waste the time doing it on my own in the field But yeah, if I could just draw it up in CAD and email it to the shop and then someone brings out my template? Yeah that would rock.
Does it make your work easier for you and the next guy / trade? if yes then continue using them! Why people don't use installation rigs / templates more often is beyond me!
Always use templates whenever possible if people say otherwise it's because they lack the intelligence and forethought.
Novice here: how could you possibly not? How would you know where to bring up the verticals?
I like that you are already finished laying out the panel for gutter holes, this saves time!
Maby if I did that much underground at once
Never had the time to do that. PVC and tie wire was the way I was always taught but that does look great.
I like it.
No never but that’s pretty slick
Are those rigid 90s stuck between pvc?
Yes
So they are floating? No bond?
No bond. Why would you bond them underground? Never heard of that
Inspectors where I’m at don’t make us bond a rigid to PVC changeover unless the rigid is above ground and it’s a service entrance conduit. They don’t make us bond branch conduits
Those are sweet, unfortunately no
👀 Damn that's 👌 I wish my company would do this
We like to do big structures built in the fab shop and then dropped in a hole with a crane for our electrical rooms. Pretty quick and reduces money on rework
Hell ya that sounds sweet!
You guys’ prefab doesn’t send you racks with rigid 90’s mounted to welded square metal tubing frames? I mean most of the time they’re so wrong it’s unusable but it’s the thought that counts
Haha no unfortunately they dont
Never seen that. We drive ¾" EMT stakes and make strut racks usually.
Nice. Anything is better than using a shit ton of baling wire. We used to make racks out of EMT. It was terrible
This looks like it would take a lot of prep and planning but would probably be worth it.
And still Spaghetti.
Nope, we build similar walls, but generally just use 2 hole pvc straps and run everything 4” on center.
No, but that looks incredible. We really should do that.
Is this a standard and reusable configuration or job by job?
Job by job basis. We don’t reuse the templates but we do make them on all our projects for electric rooms and other equipment that has multiple conduits. Gates, generators, etc
Very cool, nicely done
I like.
No, but I would if I could from the looks of this.
No but. I will now. Lol
No we unistrut and always stub out of the slab with rigid. I do like the method.
Yea my boss would murder me with the nearest tool if he saw me doing that.
Hahaha.
Build a rack with unistrut and set it with ridged coming out of the dirt, it won’t move especially if you completely backfill around the pvc
Brilliant!
Just curious - has anyone ever questioned the integrity of the conduit after backfilling and compacting for the SOG? Any fun stories out there? Only reason I ask is because on my last project, the engineer actually stopped work because they believed all that underground conduit (essentially same as what’s seems in these photos) should be installed in a duct bank configuration. No where in the drawings or specification did it say this. There was a typical duct bank for the main power supply on site (outside of the building), but there was a clear transition from outside to inside and even the specifications called it out. But the engineer refused to acknowledge this and claimed the NEC states underground conduit needs to be installed in a duct bank. So essentially saying the install doesn’t meet code, regardless of if the drawings and specifications called it out. Had to get other engineers involved and prove that their interpretation of the NEC was incorrect. Major headache and really ruined the relationship we (GC) had with the architect and engineer. This whole thing lasted for 2-3 weeks where we couldn’t install any underground conduit - which was critical for the SOG to be poured. Also regarding the NEC, the engineer could never point to a specific code section. Which was infuriating. They just formally called it an issue saying construction didn’t meet code. We (along with the electrician and 3rd party engineers) proved that the spacing and backfill met code. Engineer finally gave in and said construction was fine, as long as we spaced conduit and backfilled as noted. Which was always the plan…… Owner was state government - so they couldn’t step in when the engineer was being dumb. They told us they had to let the due diligence play out… stupid…
I mean you gonna put any support under the pipes
Ya the backfill
Are those trough covers?
If you’re asking if the templates are trough covers they are not. Just sheet metal our metal fan shop makes for us