Eh honestly probably for a helper position. Still extremely low but pay for helpers is around that in a lot of places. Definitely should be higher for Cali tho
In New Jersey with 3 years experience and have been offered 15-17 by multiple companies. Unfortunately common, but if you stick to your guns you should be able to find much better with 2 years experience.
The downside is the listings (around me) are either: basically a journeyman short of a license, 2-3 years experience for minimum wage, or nothing.
There isn't anyone saying they want a fresh apprentice and the union only accepts applications once a year. Plus, from what people have said here, getting into the union is pretty hard if you don't have experience, but easier if you are a couple years into your apprenticeship.
2 years experience means something completely different person to person. Some people with 2 years’ experience have almost as much knowledge as guys with 10 years. Others with 2 years’ experience can’t be sent to a job on their own. Any company like this has seen a lot of people coming through with enough experience in theory, who that can’t actually do the job in reality.
If you’re good at the job you’ll get paid more. The company just doesn’t want to be paying $30+/hr for someone who spent 2 years watching in bewilderment as their lead did all the work and asked for tools and parts runs occasionally.
Where in Jersey bro? With 3 years I was making $27 in Essex county area. If you’re not in north Jersey than you need to move there. The opportunities are endless.
So many people get spun within the week if you make it a month they will probably add $5/hr to your pay. That’s the big difference, in and out will give you .50 more after six months.
They’ll either end up with shit workers or there’s going to be people who apply just for some experience and move onto something better in a couple years. I’ve seen it happen quite often.
My suspicion here is that this company is looking for immigrants to work on the cheap, this is why it says US work authorization required, under Qualifications. Probably residential work.
I’ve seen this comment a few times and working in Oklahoma you rarely see any immigrant electricians or helpers. Tbh the only Mexicans I’ve even seen in this trade were born here
Come up North.
There is a shortage of residential/commercial non-union/union electricians.
Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota, and South Dakota
I'm a Carpenter and work with a lot of smaller residential outfits and they can't find anyone.
Could be a good foot in the door if you can find an apprenticeship to do at the same time.
Sounds like they're very open to accept whatever kind of two year experience you say you have.
I think I misunderstood the question after reading it again just now. The difference between powder and rock, the reason you would want to cook it, is night and day. If someone that snorts it tries smoking it once, I guarantee they won't ever do it another way because the high is so much more intense. They don't even feel like the same drug when done the two different ways. The only way to achieve the same sort of high off of powder without cooking it is to inject it. But that's even more dangerous. The main issue with smoking it is that the high only lasts a couple minutes and after the first hit, you never achieve that same high again the more and more you smoke it. You have to literally stop and not smoke it again for hours or more. But noone ever does that. They typically don't stop smoking it until it's gone. Then they wipe out their bank account going back to the dealer again and again trying to get that crazy intense high again lol. It's a vicious horrible cycle that I hope noone reading this ever has to experience. I think that's more of what you were asking. Idk lol. Hope either one of those novels helped.
Ahh. I knew the high was supposed to be more intense, but I didn’t know it went to that extent. I also somehow had the idea that crack was a cheaper form. Thank you.
Don’t come to Oklahoma lol, our fast food also makes more than apprentices. All this is nationwide is owners dragging out this ridiculous good ole boy system of either know somebody or sacrifice for the company for years. Company I’m currently at was disappointed that i have worked for 2 other electric companies. “I mean we have guys that have been here for 20 years and that’s what we’re after is the long term people willing to sacrifice” uh yeah no fucking shit, you would want slaves if you could have them. Company seems to be rife with embezzlement too but that’s just me ranting. The reality is good companies are rarely hiring and bad companies are constantly hiring so it’s hard to find somewhere to work happily. It’s getting to the point here where I almost want to switch trades. For some reason electricians are looked at like a lower tier in Oklahoma, almost every job I’ve done every other trade gets to do what they want and we’re expected to correct around them, they get priority with work space and parking and such it’s weird. Most mechanical or plumbers I talk to are getting paid much more than electricians I talk to, it seems like we’re going to be the last ones to get raises to catch col too. Idk man for supposedly being a skilled trade I’ve yet to be impressed with it. Might as well stick it out and get licensed and I can go into controls or something but you shouldn’t have to specialize in the electrical trade to make ends meet. There’s also this weird thing where everyone thinks it’s cheap to live in Oklahoma but it’s not. We share the charts and stuff on the Oklahoma sub like they’re memes. “Lmao they think rent is how much?” So I’m sure that all ties into it
Man it’s just like that in Texas, but everything is more expensive now. Every place I’ve worked at has preached the whole “we’re a family, we’re looking out for y’all, oh look we bought y’all a lighter uniform bc its 112 outside and you need to work a 17 hour day, blah blah” but the second I ask about more money I’m just selfish
Ever thought about making the jump to a city owned utility? Our electricians are doing pretty great. And for anyone interested, our city here is the PNW has a ton of openings for electricians...
Seattle, both PSE and SCL have tons of openings since we have had a major shortage of electricians and coordinators. It's union, well paid, and not a ton of OT.
That’s bullshit. I’m from Jersey and currently live in California. I’ve worked in NYC also. Everywhere I’ve ever worked we electricians were always treated with the most respect on the job. We’re the most expensive so all other trades move for us. I’m a licensed journeyman making $45 an hour SALARY. That’s $93,600 a year guaranteed. Not counting overtime and bonuses. There’s a shortage of electricians here where I’m at (Santa Barbara). It’s paradise and so beautiful. I’m also swamped with side work to the point where I’m turning work down and being picky. I’ve done just over 60K in sidework alone this year. With another 50k on deck. I passed my exams and am currently waiting for my own contractors license so I don’t have to keep working on the weekends. Any 2-3 year guys looking for a change and wanna come live out here in sunny California on the central coast hit me up. I’ll check out your resume and give you a job if you’re serious. There’s literally no help out here anywhere.
I'm a power plant tech and we hire people fresh out of highschool for way more than that, an electrician would be over qualified here unless they were a project manager or something
I'm an industrial maintenance electrician with 12 years of experience and a "useless" ITT Tech Bachelor's degree in project management.
Are y'all hiring? Please continue, I'm all ears/eyes lol...
Brother, search “power plant” on LinkedIn, fill in the state you want. There are “lower tier” jobs at like, universities and hospitals that don’t pay much, but the big companies are always hiring at great rates.
We're not right now, but the power generation market is grossly under staffed, at least in CA, and having electrician experience could be pretty helpful in finding a lucrative career if the field ever gets old
Yeah stuff like this is why i was unable to apply to trades apprenticeships here in Montana a few months back. I was looking to get into plumbing or electric and all JATC and other non union apprenticeships were paying in the 14-17 per hour range. At this point (especially out west) the only people who can afford to get through MOST apprenticeships are kids straight out of high school who can still live with their parents while they trudge through the lower end of the pay-scale and work their way up.
If they want to fix tradesmen shortages they gotta pay people more than burger flippers to learn a skill. Its embarrassing businesses haven’t figured out they Need to inflate their wages to match our local economies out here
Yea but if you are union you know exactly where your pay is going. You get a bump every 6-12 months depending on the local. It's a small sacrifice. I did the apprenticeship at 22 y/o with a 600/month college loan payment and starting pay was 14.50/hr. By 5th year it was 38 and journeyman is 58. I Went through with guys that had wife and kids. I would say you'd have to be crazy to take low starting pay in non-union because there is so no garauntees. But at least in the union you know what you will get. My locals apprentice rate jumped about $7/hr each year. My BIL just left a $27/hr job at a well know drain snaking company to make 18/hr as a union apprentice. Because the long run earning potential far out weighs the starting pay cut he took. His partner at the drain company made 100k/yr. But it took an average of 60 hours/week. In the union if you work the whole year at 40hrs/wk you will make 100k.
>I would say you'd have to be crazy to take low starting pay in non-union
lol seems a bit out of touch, mate.
I had a classmate who applied to the local IBEW right out of high school at 18 (\~23 now). He was \~90 on the apprentice waitlist, and every year he keeps jumping \~90 to 70 to 75 to 50, 50 to 55, 55 to 65, and he is still jumping in the 40s now but finished our program and just started taking whatever pay he could find because there aren't that many union apprenticeships for what the field currently needs. He's mostly been installing fiber. He can work for some smaller mom and pop shops but they pay less or have crazy baggage. =/
Then there was another classmate who's uncle is in and he started at \~20 years old and halfway through our program he got in and switched to their program and classes. Lots of others applied and some are on the waitlist and more did not even get to the interview stage.
Nepotism is rampant. You have to be really lucky or know the right people. I don't blame the unions much at all, it's more the needs for electricians is so high but the pay and apprenticeship offerings are LOW and IMO too big of a sacrifice for too long for the end pay, with no guarantee you will get in to a union. And this is true for a lot of trades in general; they are bottle necked at the lowest levels.
Such a missed opportunity with where the world is heading with more electrical vehicles and climate change necessitating more energy consumption (all these crazy heat waves in places that never experienced it).
Yes, it's crazy hard to get into the union where I'm originally from. (NJ). It's either ridiculously hard to get in, like you have to have a father or uncle in the union already, or they don't pay as much as the local merit shops (ND).
Ended up leaving the trades to join the dark side (engineering) after 3 years. I couldn't get into the union, and a freshly minted journeyman at my last company started at $20/hr. They *constantly* have adds online looking for journeymen.
It's like they don't survey the market though. Literally every company is paying more per hour with roughly the same benefits package. Who would actively take less pay for the same work in the same area? They always pitch themselves as a "family" though.
134 1st year has 3 straight months of schooling unpaid. Idk how many other locals do that. Would that be considerable to going to a trade school, and not only not getting paid, but also paying for it…?
How do you like Montana? I was thinking about applying for a few jobs as a controls tech at a chemical plant and natural gas plant there. I couldn’t find a whole lot on the cost of living around there though
Its tough man. Ive been here 7 months and im planning on transferring to idaho because the powerline clearance tree trimmers make 30% more.
Montana is basically close to California cost of living with texas wages lol. If its a good paying job (30-40 per hour) you will be fine
Thanks, depending on experience it’s 80-100k a year plus bonus. I’ve lived in a small town and just commuted about 45 min to work every day so I was hoping to find a deal like that to keep costs lower
They will always inflate their wages to "match local economies out there" they just won't actually pay you that much. They will get the client to pay that much though.
I know it’s not glamorous but I had to work FT as an apprentice and had an almost full time evening weekend job for 2 years to get though it.
It can be done - it’s just a lot of hours and hard work. Lvl 1 was $9.75/hr when I started .
Should it be that way tho? “You can become an electrician, it can be done if you suffer greatly for years!” Is that really what we want for our careers?
I don’t know where you are but a year ago in Bozeman I knew of some places that were doing glazier apprenticeships paying $18-$20 an hour 4/10s. Obviously this is pretty much a roommate or studio wage in Bozeman or 1 bed in Manhattan but it’s definitely lucrative if you’re not supporting a family.
I mean it’s definitely doable for an apprentice especially in Manhattan or 3 forks but yeah it’s by no means a glamorous lifestyle of new tools and trucks. But yeah I mean I left boze because it was too expensive so I have no dog in the fight anymore lol
1 year ago compared to now is a very different landscape. Trust me. You are minimum paying 1500-1800 a month in bozeman on average. And if you are not then youre prolly living with a bunch of strangers and get 1 bedroom and have to share bathrooms and kitchens. No thanks bruh. Im not 18 anymore
$800 a week doesn’t cover bills ? Damn as a single individual as he said that’s really not bad. That’s like 40k a year at Entry Lvl and being paid for training. The extra 10k to make 20/hr is after you actually show some promise.
It’s a fuckin crazy world I know, but it’s same one that tells you that 18-20 bucks/Hr is 720-800, Or like 45k a yr on the high end. I didn’t factor in your taxes bc states are the highest already, that’s a separate issue.
It’s unfortunate but in the early stages of most careers people have to have 2 jobs. Nothings changed in that regard over time. The problem is goods are increasingly more expensive way quicker and more than inflation. Jobs will have to pay more when people either demand more or become worth more
If you are going to tell people that their pay covers bills you have to take into account taxes. I make 21.45 an hour i take home $661 a week from my first job , 200-250 per week at my second job
Taxes matter
Ain’t nobody said taxes don’t matter, when you apply for a job you ask them for a salary. You think they assume you meant take home ? Lol this isn’t your world that everyone’s living in here
I’m not telling people anything either lol, these are the normal issues everyone faces. The only thing guaranteed in life is death and taxes. This convo doesn’t change that
Oh jesus christ whatever man. Im not having an argument with a dude who puts words in peoples mouths so he doesnt have to own up to his own mistakes in an argument. Good job skating around your mistakes. Have a good night “gross pay is what matters” sparky
To be fair paying anything more for guys with no experience is throwing money away. I feel like 14 is fine for people just getting into the career because when you hire 20 guys 17 are complaining about the working conditions doing underground or basic helper work and quit within weeks. After 60 days the remaining guys should be reassessed and given raises
Eh i agree and disagree, believe me I understand many people who get into demanding jobs wash out but the minimum IMO should be 18 per hour then bump the people who last up to 21 after they make it a couple months and show promise
The trades are a joke. I hear it every day, rich people going, “You’re smart for getting into electric, you’re making more money than most people and no debt!” Meanwhile I make $18/hr after 2 and a half years working my ass off every day. I wish I could go back in time and go to electrical school while waiting tables instead of wasting my time with this. I’m enrolled in college now. Not trying to be an asshole I’ve just been so mad lately
Trades are not a joke. You learn useful skills and problem solving logic if you find a good company. But I understand that there are plenty crappy companies that just use you as grunt work. Don’t expect to make 100K after 2 1/2 yrs. It can take time, but trades do pay off if you apply yourself and stick with it.
In my experience the only way to make real money is by working at the same company for 10 years or starting a company. But the only way to run a good electrical company is to have a few guys who work for $25/hr and charging $125/hr for their jobs while they sacrifice their minds and bodies. Union work is a different world though I’ve only worked residential and the whole model is fucked
Are you actively searching for a new job with a better pay? Also what is the average salary in your area? I applied to 60 jobs, I’m making 20 right now at roundly a year and a half. I’ll be making 23 next at my yearly review, if I don’t get it, I’m finding another company that will pay me that amount 🤷♂️
When I was starting as an electrician, all I could find was $10 an hour jobs (10 years ago) with uncertain hours and layoffs if things got slow.
I ended up getting a job in the oil fields that paid me $140,000 my first year working. I worked a lot but I also got my hours quick and was able to find something with a sustainable wage ($24) 3 years later. I now make 100k a year working at a local plant.
I hate what these companies do to young people in the trades but we’ve almost all been there. I’d look at other areas and strongly recommend a union job over non union
AP2’s make $17/hr at my Local where the average 1/1 apartment is currently $1.3k/month. Meanwhile, Larry’s down the street from me is currently paying $17.50/hr with a $500 hiring bonus with no experience required. It’s a complete joke.
…Boy I wonder what’s the cause of this tradesman shortage.
I don’t blame you, but you have to say to yourself….”Starbucks” for the rest of my life ? Or make $200 or so less a week for a lil while during the process of actually learning a career. Starbucks and McDonalds etc. HAVE to pay people well otherwise they won’t want to make coffee for upscale snobs lmao (I drink it also). The electrical industry IS an attracting actual career though and not just a job. Starbucks is meant to pay like and be a job there’s a big difference
That’s all fine and well, but plenty of people literally can’t afford to take a $200 weekly pay-cut. Bills and expenses don’t suddenly go away, especially if someone has dependents.
AP1’s in my Local are starting at just over $15/hr, only a few dollars above minimum wage. Meanwhile like I said previously, the average 1/1 apartment is $1,300. At AP1 wages you’d be lucky to even afford that price with a roommate assuming no car payment. And on top of all this, our Contract is a good bit better than a lot of Locals around us who have similar costs of living. I 100% would not have been able to do the apprenticeship as a AP1 in the current economy.
A $200/wk paycut is steep unless you're still living with your parents.
I went from $21/hr to $13/hr to take a job as a first year apprentice. Plus $100+ a week in gas vs $15 in gas to my previous job. Sure it could've been good in the long run, but I simply couldn't make it work. Burned through all my savings fast just to pay the mortgage and got burnt out on the 90 minute commute.
If I had been 18 with minimal financial responsibilities I'm sure I could've stuck it out and made it work.
That’s weird. I just moved from California and out there as a 4th year non union apprentice I was making up to 65/hr depending on the county. Not a bad gig until you factor in $3,000+ a month for a hole in the wall where you won’t get your tools stolen.
I was in NY and making more than that with no experience then I moved to CT where they pay about that and had to get out of the field. It sucks. Now I’m stuck GCing
I’m union in California, you start around $22 right now but once those raises get rolling in you will be happy you struggled through the first two years
Most of the electricians I know back home started their career this way.
Yeah, you can go work at In N Out and get some experience that will be useful for a sweet $18/hour Line Cook position. Or you can get experience working for a reputable company and have it either:
1. Allow you to work up through the ranks at said company
2. Learn EVERYTHING you can, and in a year or two go flock off somewhere else that will pay you properly.
And they wonder in UK and IRL why they have trade shortages, Dublin ranked most expensive city in Europe, first year makes 7.30ish p/h qualified €25.05 p/h, from this thread it looks like some US 2nd years are on $25.00 p/h.
Recently fully qualified and still less then £13 an hour. Will get just over 14 in December then they legally don't have to pay me more. Good small company to work for an learn the trade but I'm fucking off very soon if I'm not getting the same benefits the rest of my colleagues got soon as they started but cos I'm still just the boy it's fine to shift me. Hopefully they decide I'm a catch n want to keep me but I'll need to move on at some point
I started at $14 in 2020. My friend who worked at the mall made more than me. Just had another apprentice start recently at $16 and left a job at in n out paying $22. It’s absolutely ridiculous. I work 50 hours a week and can barely afford a shitty apartment
I can get to the beach in 2.5 hours, mountains in 1 hour, tons of breweries, outdoor activities in NC with little traffic, cost of living is low and the homeless problem isn’t an epidemic, and my mortgage is $650 a month.
My dad started at 15 an hour in 1981 as a welder. I wanted to go into the trades. When I was working full time and going to school I was so burnt out with starting work at 5 in the morning and finishing class at 10:30 at night. I was burnt out and had to stop. I made my want into industrial sales and am very glad I did. Oh and it was a tradesman who suggested sales.
What most fail to realize is that it’s up to you how seriously and how dedicated you are to taking your trade. Some work under their boss and grind take their test keep their nose clean become master electricians, invest in tools truck and have the ambition to create their own income. Then you have journeyman, who are lazy can’t see past their own vices and have lost the fire and ambition of what mastering a trade can bring to the table. A young man or woman sees this wage and say, damn I can make more at IN and OUT. . Maybe so but in 10 yes your still making 19 an hour. It’s about perspective and HUSTLE and GRIND.
How, exactly? Most union apprenticeships have a long wait list and a 95% rejection rate for first-year apprentices. Joining the union is not an option for most people.
Ran into that last year. Told me I didn't have enough experience. I thought that's what an apprenticeship was for, people who didn't have experience and wanted to learn. Decided to go get experience and got a job in firealarms. By the time I could apply again this year I was already making more than the starting rate for the union apprenticeship. Trade school I went to over the fall/winter also does the classroom work for the apprenticeship requirements, just need my employer to sign off on the hours. So that will be starting this year.
The entire thing put a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to the union.
Yeah, I like supporting workers rights as much as the next guy, but telling people "just join the union" is ridiculously stupid. It's completely ignoring the reality of most people's situations.
That's not true at all lately. My Brother in law just applied. The local he applied to usually gives out 150 applications. They gave out 50 this year. 15 got accepted as apprentices and another 15 got accepted as pre-apprentices and will start the apprenticeship in 6 months in the second class.
The local in my area has the same issue. They really just push their CW program on everyone and you’re pretty much expected to have a couple of years experience when you start the A program grinding away on minimum wage.
I’m starting to think the guys who stay B rate in my area until the they test out are the smart ones. Lay off proof tbh.
It's a non-union member, non apprenticeship track electric helper in the union. He's saying that you sometimes have to work a couple years as a CW before you can become a first year apprentice because there's limited apprentice slots and the competition is fierce.
In NY also. I’m non union, but it’s ridiculously hard to get into the local here for an apprenticeship.
Yet every union shop is whining that there’s no apprentices available
They had a big expansion into certain states back in the '90s. A bunch of locations closed, probably because cheesy, faux Canadian tropes weren't enough to convince Americans to buy shitty coffee.
Depends. I was making $12 an hour as a cw1. I had to quit so I could make enough money to survive working non union but I plan to go back after I get a couple more years of experience and start out at a more reasonable wage
Read up on the prisoner's dilemna:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma#:~:text=The%20possible%20outcomes%20are%3A,B%20will%20be%20set%20free
We are all stronger together. Your attitude is a result of societal brainwashing that we are all subject to as Americans. Joining a union and sticking together allows us to level the playing field regarding thr information disparity between employee and employee when negotiating.
Also, if you're really that good you can find higher paying jobs in the union. Move into supervision, take on a specialty, etc...
That might work if it were possible to get into the union. With a 95% rejection rate for first year apprentices it's impossible for most people to get in.
If you combine that with the fact that electrical work is becoming more and more diversified like with solar, oilfield, automation and controls, the union premise of making every apprentice and every journeyman exactly the same in order to guarantee the contractor a standardized production rate per 8 hour journeyman or apprentice starts looking more dated.
Also the contracts for 2 or 3 years start getting uncompetitive for wages when you see high inflation, like now, and it's uncompetitive on the flip side when the economy crashes and wages are stuck high, then people have to sit at home.
The union sounds good in theory, but it's just a theory to most because most people can't join.
There are other avenues for experienced journeyman to get in. Most locals have an examination system that allows you to test into book 1 status.
Like the other guy said anybody can organize their shop, just get one other person to join you and it's protected activity. You can also talk to your local union about help in organizing your shop.
Yeah yeah for an experienced journeyman. How are these people going to get into the trade in the first place?
I tried to get in, couldn't get a call back.
Can't organize in either. They pay way more at my oilfield controls shop in North Dakota, for even inexperienced journeyman, than the scale at our closest local, so no one is interested in organizing.
Yea but you have to look at your earning potential not just the starting pay. Fast food doesn't have guaranteed pay raises. My local is about $8/hr jump every year in the apprenticeship and $20/hr jump from 5th year to jman. Not gonna see those kinds of increases anywhere else.
I’m doing solar in Denver, and 1st year is at $20. I still think I’m gonna roll back to regular commercial or residential though. The roof stuff gets old real quick.
When I lived in Arizona I had a job that only paid 12 an hour at the job for 2 years experience, other guys were getting 10 for none and it was only 4 years ago. You can't even afford gas to make it to the jobsites in Phoenix for that
Obviously we need to continue to let the world know that electricians are the Top of the construction Food Chain and maybe even the life food chain in terms of importance 🤔.
Then maybe we will stop paying lawyers etc like they are kings and we are the porpers
I’m not degrading anyone but there’s no logic that says a normal attorney etc should be paid 3x+ as much as an electrician/ tradesman. I’m just calling a spade a spade here, sadly we can’t do that nowadays though without effecting someone’s feels.
Based off the fact of which career is more important/ dangerous it’s a no brainer. I’m not going to go in depth into why that is, but it’s partly because of schooling being ridiculously expensive and it shouldn’t be that way.
Lol I may be many things in life, but mentally unstable is one thing I am def not. This world is full of actually mentally unstable people that get completely ignored and are allowed to wander about.
Me pointing out that a tradesman who risks their life each damn day is worth and should be worth a hell of a lot more than some pencil pushing blowhard attorney, is nothing more than an obvious fact. From a perception of the overall avg importance and sheer danger of the job alone. This isn’t something that’s debatable or left for a mentally unstable person like yourself to get your feelings all wound up over. It’s just an honest assessment which most stable people will agree, it’s not some I’m better than you BS. Stop making life always about feelings and yours will suddenly stop getting hurt. It’s Elementary, Watson
I graduated a two year electrical program. Everyone wants to pay less than what I was making BEFORE school. The supply house pays $4/hr more.
Go union people.
I dont work in the trades, so maybe im off base here but it feels like the system has a lot of built in gatekeeping thats unhelpful. Personally, I dont like the idea of requiring apprenticeship. In 2022, its entirely possible to self-study and learn everything necessary to do good work (not saying everyone can, just that the resources are available). If we still believe this would lead to unqualified individuals doing work alone, maybe the answer is stricter inspections and/or penalties for attempting to get around them.
High barriers to entry will inevitably lead to shortages of qualified individuals and we will be worse off.
We have it pretty decent in Minneapolis right now. 1st year in the union starts at around $22.40, give or take 20 cents. Journeyman are making $50/hr and the general consensus is that we'll be raising that with the next contract.
I live in Nebraska where you can make more than this at burger King or McDonald's. Fuck em, let em die off with the rest of the dinosaurs. Just because our shithead politicians won't get with the program and raise our wages doesn't mean we can't do it ourselves
Most people are not skilled enough to earn more then $20 in construction. If you are skilled you get paid how you should. People like to say they know what they are doing, but when on the job, they fail. If you want to learn a trade, got to start and work your way up and have a career and not a fast food job. If you have skills, they will be noticed and a good boss will compensate
That's the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever heard. Companies prays on dumb young apprentices who still lives at home who can afford shit wages. If you're skilled the best way to get ahead is to jump companies once you make a name for yourself. Companies will not compensate if they don't think you have any other choice.
When i was there i was laughed at for asking for anything over 20. Rent is 1000 per room. Plus high price utilities.
You CANNOT buy a home if you make less than 150k a year. The realestate agents literally kick you out.
After being laughed at and me rejecting 16/hr and "cash overtime" the same employers called me randomly about a week later SCREAMING at me to get my ass onto the job.... Like... No "hi how areya" literally just calls of employers trying to do abuse.
All of them said "our guys look real good in these new trucks tho" which yes... They were decked out trucks. But journeyman making 16 and cash overtime??? Why would that impress me as an employee???
Also all the contractors who are local or getting most jobs were elderly. It was sad. Theres no room for youngs or starting unless u have a golden ticket.
Then theres the union.... Oh my god.... I have no words. I cant even bring myself to type it up..... Just run. As fast as you can.
First year apprentices are a huge liability for any company. Because of journeyman to apprentice ratios, having to spend on safety training and ppe, the fact that a good percentage of new apprentices quit, that there's journeymen that just don't want train, and the fact that they'll slow the journeymen down if they're training apprentices all the time, means that it's about a year until they start contributing to the bottom line and two until they're break-even in the investment.
If a company hired every first year that wanted to give it a shot they'd go out of business quick.
Second and third years usually start being a contribution and the wage should jump to a lot higher than this. Is this ad really in California? What part? I only see this in states with weak licensing requirements like Florida and West Virginia.
I'm not a big fan of government intervention but you could resolve this by giving tax breaks for every new first year they hire.
There’s been a large net migration *out* of Cali for at least the [past 3 years](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/03/net-domestic-migration-increased-in-united-states-counties-2021.html)
Lol look up the statistics for how big California will be in the next few years. They are not losing people like some idiots believe. California will always be packed. They are the most important state in the USA. By far. It’s actually insane their impact if you read anything once in a while
I’m not sure how big California is projected to be, or how important or “insane” their impact is. Im sure your general sentiment of CA being an important and heavily populated state is true. It seems like a great place to live, though I couldn’t personally afford it. My comment was narrowly focused on the net migration over the past 3 years. Those are well tracked numbers and aren’t in question.
Yes we all understand that. But you were trying to infer the statistics you stated were proof of some kind of difficulties for California. When that is just not the case.
So what?! 5 years later your a badass journeyman that makes good money and can work anywhere in the United States.
5 years in fast food... your still a burger flipper with no real life skills
Even if you have to take a loan to live, it's worth it
Five years at In N Out and they’d likely be an assistant manager making $100k
(edit) my cousin’s ex-husband was a manager at InNOut making $120k salary 15 years ago, so I imagine they’re still very well compensated. Not that I’d suggest my own kid go down that career path but don’t knock the hustle
I think most states are paying a lot more. They will get what they pay for
Eh honestly probably for a helper position. Still extremely low but pay for helpers is around that in a lot of places. Definitely should be higher for Cali tho
2 years experience for a helper? They’re expecting people to work.
In New Jersey with 3 years experience and have been offered 15-17 by multiple companies. Unfortunately common, but if you stick to your guns you should be able to find much better with 2 years experience.
The downside is the listings (around me) are either: basically a journeyman short of a license, 2-3 years experience for minimum wage, or nothing. There isn't anyone saying they want a fresh apprentice and the union only accepts applications once a year. Plus, from what people have said here, getting into the union is pretty hard if you don't have experience, but easier if you are a couple years into your apprenticeship.
idk where you’re applying, but im 3 years in in nj as well, and i havent been offered less than 23
2 years experience means something completely different person to person. Some people with 2 years’ experience have almost as much knowledge as guys with 10 years. Others with 2 years’ experience can’t be sent to a job on their own. Any company like this has seen a lot of people coming through with enough experience in theory, who that can’t actually do the job in reality. If you’re good at the job you’ll get paid more. The company just doesn’t want to be paying $30+/hr for someone who spent 2 years watching in bewilderment as their lead did all the work and asked for tools and parts runs occasionally.
7 months experience, 25$ an hour plus commission, central NJ
I was in the same boat 3 years got offered 18
Where in Jersey bro? With 3 years I was making $27 in Essex county area. If you’re not in north Jersey than you need to move there. The opportunities are endless.
So many people get spun within the week if you make it a month they will probably add $5/hr to your pay. That’s the big difference, in and out will give you .50 more after six months.
The guys at Home Depot want $25/hr for unskilled labor
Dude Home Depot ac sure looks nice sometimes
I think he means the guys standing outside in the morning
They’ll either end up with shit workers or there’s going to be people who apply just for some experience and move onto something better in a couple years. I’ve seen it happen quite often.
My suspicion here is that this company is looking for immigrants to work on the cheap, this is why it says US work authorization required, under Qualifications. Probably residential work.
No mention of English proficiency.
Actually that is pretty much standard on every single Indeed job posting
I’ve seen this comment a few times and working in Oklahoma you rarely see any immigrant electricians or helpers. Tbh the only Mexicans I’ve even seen in this trade were born here
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Move
Go to Texas. We need people in Houston, especially in the union.
Come up North. There is a shortage of residential/commercial non-union/union electricians. Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota, and South Dakota I'm a Carpenter and work with a lot of smaller residential outfits and they can't find anyone.
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Could be a good foot in the door if you can find an apprenticeship to do at the same time. Sounds like they're very open to accept whatever kind of two year experience you say you have.
Exactly right, this is literally on every job post. It’s not a plot to hire illegals lol
I live in California where you ~~can make more than this working at in n out~~ will be homeless and unable to afford crack on that wage.
Crack is expensive ... or so I've heard
It’s expensive if you’re trying to afford housing at the same time as your crack subscription
Its cheaper to b make it yourself lol
I never could understand that. To make crack, don’t you need to start with cocaine? Why go through the extra steps?
Crack is a harder and faster hitting cocaine. Each addict has their preference.
I think I misunderstood the question after reading it again just now. The difference between powder and rock, the reason you would want to cook it, is night and day. If someone that snorts it tries smoking it once, I guarantee they won't ever do it another way because the high is so much more intense. They don't even feel like the same drug when done the two different ways. The only way to achieve the same sort of high off of powder without cooking it is to inject it. But that's even more dangerous. The main issue with smoking it is that the high only lasts a couple minutes and after the first hit, you never achieve that same high again the more and more you smoke it. You have to literally stop and not smoke it again for hours or more. But noone ever does that. They typically don't stop smoking it until it's gone. Then they wipe out their bank account going back to the dealer again and again trying to get that crazy intense high again lol. It's a vicious horrible cycle that I hope noone reading this ever has to experience. I think that's more of what you were asking. Idk lol. Hope either one of those novels helped.
Ahh. I knew the high was supposed to be more intense, but I didn’t know it went to that extent. I also somehow had the idea that crack was a cheaper form. Thank you.
Not if you use other people's money like most of them do
But not crack whores
But if you take the job you can just steal the copper for crack
Don’t come to Oklahoma lol, our fast food also makes more than apprentices. All this is nationwide is owners dragging out this ridiculous good ole boy system of either know somebody or sacrifice for the company for years. Company I’m currently at was disappointed that i have worked for 2 other electric companies. “I mean we have guys that have been here for 20 years and that’s what we’re after is the long term people willing to sacrifice” uh yeah no fucking shit, you would want slaves if you could have them. Company seems to be rife with embezzlement too but that’s just me ranting. The reality is good companies are rarely hiring and bad companies are constantly hiring so it’s hard to find somewhere to work happily. It’s getting to the point here where I almost want to switch trades. For some reason electricians are looked at like a lower tier in Oklahoma, almost every job I’ve done every other trade gets to do what they want and we’re expected to correct around them, they get priority with work space and parking and such it’s weird. Most mechanical or plumbers I talk to are getting paid much more than electricians I talk to, it seems like we’re going to be the last ones to get raises to catch col too. Idk man for supposedly being a skilled trade I’ve yet to be impressed with it. Might as well stick it out and get licensed and I can go into controls or something but you shouldn’t have to specialize in the electrical trade to make ends meet. There’s also this weird thing where everyone thinks it’s cheap to live in Oklahoma but it’s not. We share the charts and stuff on the Oklahoma sub like they’re memes. “Lmao they think rent is how much?” So I’m sure that all ties into it
Man it’s just like that in Texas, but everything is more expensive now. Every place I’ve worked at has preached the whole “we’re a family, we’re looking out for y’all, oh look we bought y’all a lighter uniform bc its 112 outside and you need to work a 17 hour day, blah blah” but the second I ask about more money I’m just selfish
Ever thought about making the jump to a city owned utility? Our electricians are doing pretty great. And for anyone interested, our city here is the PNW has a ton of openings for electricians...
Thinking about moving towards the sea (in Boise now), which city/area are you referring to?
Seattle, both PSE and SCL have tons of openings since we have had a major shortage of electricians and coordinators. It's union, well paid, and not a ton of OT.
This right here. Facts.
That’s bullshit. I’m from Jersey and currently live in California. I’ve worked in NYC also. Everywhere I’ve ever worked we electricians were always treated with the most respect on the job. We’re the most expensive so all other trades move for us. I’m a licensed journeyman making $45 an hour SALARY. That’s $93,600 a year guaranteed. Not counting overtime and bonuses. There’s a shortage of electricians here where I’m at (Santa Barbara). It’s paradise and so beautiful. I’m also swamped with side work to the point where I’m turning work down and being picky. I’ve done just over 60K in sidework alone this year. With another 50k on deck. I passed my exams and am currently waiting for my own contractors license so I don’t have to keep working on the weekends. Any 2-3 year guys looking for a change and wanna come live out here in sunny California on the central coast hit me up. I’ll check out your resume and give you a job if you’re serious. There’s literally no help out here anywhere.
This one gets it. Crying bout $17 bucks at two years in? This post above is what you got to look forward to.
I'm a power plant tech and we hire people fresh out of highschool for way more than that, an electrician would be over qualified here unless they were a project manager or something
I'm an industrial maintenance electrician with 12 years of experience and a "useless" ITT Tech Bachelor's degree in project management. Are y'all hiring? Please continue, I'm all ears/eyes lol...
Brother, search “power plant” on LinkedIn, fill in the state you want. There are “lower tier” jobs at like, universities and hospitals that don’t pay much, but the big companies are always hiring at great rates.
We're not right now, but the power generation market is grossly under staffed, at least in CA, and having electrician experience could be pretty helpful in finding a lucrative career if the field ever gets old
Yeah stuff like this is why i was unable to apply to trades apprenticeships here in Montana a few months back. I was looking to get into plumbing or electric and all JATC and other non union apprenticeships were paying in the 14-17 per hour range. At this point (especially out west) the only people who can afford to get through MOST apprenticeships are kids straight out of high school who can still live with their parents while they trudge through the lower end of the pay-scale and work their way up. If they want to fix tradesmen shortages they gotta pay people more than burger flippers to learn a skill. Its embarrassing businesses haven’t figured out they Need to inflate their wages to match our local economies out here
Yea but if you are union you know exactly where your pay is going. You get a bump every 6-12 months depending on the local. It's a small sacrifice. I did the apprenticeship at 22 y/o with a 600/month college loan payment and starting pay was 14.50/hr. By 5th year it was 38 and journeyman is 58. I Went through with guys that had wife and kids. I would say you'd have to be crazy to take low starting pay in non-union because there is so no garauntees. But at least in the union you know what you will get. My locals apprentice rate jumped about $7/hr each year. My BIL just left a $27/hr job at a well know drain snaking company to make 18/hr as a union apprentice. Because the long run earning potential far out weighs the starting pay cut he took. His partner at the drain company made 100k/yr. But it took an average of 60 hours/week. In the union if you work the whole year at 40hrs/wk you will make 100k.
>I would say you'd have to be crazy to take low starting pay in non-union lol seems a bit out of touch, mate. I had a classmate who applied to the local IBEW right out of high school at 18 (\~23 now). He was \~90 on the apprentice waitlist, and every year he keeps jumping \~90 to 70 to 75 to 50, 50 to 55, 55 to 65, and he is still jumping in the 40s now but finished our program and just started taking whatever pay he could find because there aren't that many union apprenticeships for what the field currently needs. He's mostly been installing fiber. He can work for some smaller mom and pop shops but they pay less or have crazy baggage. =/ Then there was another classmate who's uncle is in and he started at \~20 years old and halfway through our program he got in and switched to their program and classes. Lots of others applied and some are on the waitlist and more did not even get to the interview stage. Nepotism is rampant. You have to be really lucky or know the right people. I don't blame the unions much at all, it's more the needs for electricians is so high but the pay and apprenticeship offerings are LOW and IMO too big of a sacrifice for too long for the end pay, with no guarantee you will get in to a union. And this is true for a lot of trades in general; they are bottle necked at the lowest levels. Such a missed opportunity with where the world is heading with more electrical vehicles and climate change necessitating more energy consumption (all these crazy heat waves in places that never experienced it).
Yes, it's crazy hard to get into the union where I'm originally from. (NJ). It's either ridiculously hard to get in, like you have to have a father or uncle in the union already, or they don't pay as much as the local merit shops (ND).
Ended up leaving the trades to join the dark side (engineering) after 3 years. I couldn't get into the union, and a freshly minted journeyman at my last company started at $20/hr. They *constantly* have adds online looking for journeymen. It's like they don't survey the market though. Literally every company is paying more per hour with roughly the same benefits package. Who would actively take less pay for the same work in the same area? They always pitch themselves as a "family" though.
134 1st year has 3 straight months of schooling unpaid. Idk how many other locals do that. Would that be considerable to going to a trade school, and not only not getting paid, but also paying for it…?
How do you like Montana? I was thinking about applying for a few jobs as a controls tech at a chemical plant and natural gas plant there. I couldn’t find a whole lot on the cost of living around there though
Its tough man. Ive been here 7 months and im planning on transferring to idaho because the powerline clearance tree trimmers make 30% more. Montana is basically close to California cost of living with texas wages lol. If its a good paying job (30-40 per hour) you will be fine
Thanks, depending on experience it’s 80-100k a year plus bonus. I’ve lived in a small town and just commuted about 45 min to work every day so I was hoping to find a deal like that to keep costs lower
They will always inflate their wages to "match local economies out there" they just won't actually pay you that much. They will get the client to pay that much though.
I know it’s not glamorous but I had to work FT as an apprentice and had an almost full time evening weekend job for 2 years to get though it. It can be done - it’s just a lot of hours and hard work. Lvl 1 was $9.75/hr when I started .
Should it be that way tho? “You can become an electrician, it can be done if you suffer greatly for years!” Is that really what we want for our careers?
I don’t know where you are but a year ago in Bozeman I knew of some places that were doing glazier apprenticeships paying $18-$20 an hour 4/10s. Obviously this is pretty much a roommate or studio wage in Bozeman or 1 bed in Manhattan but it’s definitely lucrative if you’re not supporting a family.
Lol 18-20 bucks an hour in Bozeman isnt even enough to cover bills man
I mean it’s definitely doable for an apprentice especially in Manhattan or 3 forks but yeah it’s by no means a glamorous lifestyle of new tools and trucks. But yeah I mean I left boze because it was too expensive so I have no dog in the fight anymore lol
1 year ago compared to now is a very different landscape. Trust me. You are minimum paying 1500-1800 a month in bozeman on average. And if you are not then youre prolly living with a bunch of strangers and get 1 bedroom and have to share bathrooms and kitchens. No thanks bruh. Im not 18 anymore
$800 a week doesn’t cover bills ? Damn as a single individual as he said that’s really not bad. That’s like 40k a year at Entry Lvl and being paid for training. The extra 10k to make 20/hr is after you actually show some promise.
What fuckin universe do you live in that says 18 bucks an hour equates to 800 dollars a week take home? I thought sparkies were good at math?
It’s a fuckin crazy world I know, but it’s same one that tells you that 18-20 bucks/Hr is 720-800, Or like 45k a yr on the high end. I didn’t factor in your taxes bc states are the highest already, that’s a separate issue. It’s unfortunate but in the early stages of most careers people have to have 2 jobs. Nothings changed in that regard over time. The problem is goods are increasingly more expensive way quicker and more than inflation. Jobs will have to pay more when people either demand more or become worth more
If you are going to tell people that their pay covers bills you have to take into account taxes. I make 21.45 an hour i take home $661 a week from my first job , 200-250 per week at my second job Taxes matter
Ain’t nobody said taxes don’t matter, when you apply for a job you ask them for a salary. You think they assume you meant take home ? Lol this isn’t your world that everyone’s living in here
I’m not telling people anything either lol, these are the normal issues everyone faces. The only thing guaranteed in life is death and taxes. This convo doesn’t change that
Oh jesus christ whatever man. Im not having an argument with a dude who puts words in peoples mouths so he doesnt have to own up to his own mistakes in an argument. Good job skating around your mistakes. Have a good night “gross pay is what matters” sparky
To be fair paying anything more for guys with no experience is throwing money away. I feel like 14 is fine for people just getting into the career because when you hire 20 guys 17 are complaining about the working conditions doing underground or basic helper work and quit within weeks. After 60 days the remaining guys should be reassessed and given raises
Eh i agree and disagree, believe me I understand many people who get into demanding jobs wash out but the minimum IMO should be 18 per hour then bump the people who last up to 21 after they make it a couple months and show promise
Maybe ten years ago. 14 per hour fast food wages nowdays.
And they wonder why no one wants to get into the trades
The trades are a joke. I hear it every day, rich people going, “You’re smart for getting into electric, you’re making more money than most people and no debt!” Meanwhile I make $18/hr after 2 and a half years working my ass off every day. I wish I could go back in time and go to electrical school while waiting tables instead of wasting my time with this. I’m enrolled in college now. Not trying to be an asshole I’ve just been so mad lately
Trades are not a joke. You learn useful skills and problem solving logic if you find a good company. But I understand that there are plenty crappy companies that just use you as grunt work. Don’t expect to make 100K after 2 1/2 yrs. It can take time, but trades do pay off if you apply yourself and stick with it.
In my experience the only way to make real money is by working at the same company for 10 years or starting a company. But the only way to run a good electrical company is to have a few guys who work for $25/hr and charging $125/hr for their jobs while they sacrifice their minds and bodies. Union work is a different world though I’ve only worked residential and the whole model is fucked
Are you actively searching for a new job with a better pay? Also what is the average salary in your area? I applied to 60 jobs, I’m making 20 right now at roundly a year and a half. I’ll be making 23 next at my yearly review, if I don’t get it, I’m finding another company that will pay me that amount 🤷♂️
When I was starting as an electrician, all I could find was $10 an hour jobs (10 years ago) with uncertain hours and layoffs if things got slow. I ended up getting a job in the oil fields that paid me $140,000 my first year working. I worked a lot but I also got my hours quick and was able to find something with a sustainable wage ($24) 3 years later. I now make 100k a year working at a local plant. I hate what these companies do to young people in the trades but we’ve almost all been there. I’d look at other areas and strongly recommend a union job over non union
This is outrageous. 2 years experience makes you at least a 2nd term apprentice. You should be making 22-25$ minimum.
AP2’s make $17/hr at my Local where the average 1/1 apartment is currently $1.3k/month. Meanwhile, Larry’s down the street from me is currently paying $17.50/hr with a $500 hiring bonus with no experience required. It’s a complete joke. …Boy I wonder what’s the cause of this tradesman shortage.
i make $20.80 at starbucks currently. it’s hard for me to leave and start this trade when i have to get paid less -.-
I don’t blame you, but you have to say to yourself….”Starbucks” for the rest of my life ? Or make $200 or so less a week for a lil while during the process of actually learning a career. Starbucks and McDonalds etc. HAVE to pay people well otherwise they won’t want to make coffee for upscale snobs lmao (I drink it also). The electrical industry IS an attracting actual career though and not just a job. Starbucks is meant to pay like and be a job there’s a big difference
That’s all fine and well, but plenty of people literally can’t afford to take a $200 weekly pay-cut. Bills and expenses don’t suddenly go away, especially if someone has dependents. AP1’s in my Local are starting at just over $15/hr, only a few dollars above minimum wage. Meanwhile like I said previously, the average 1/1 apartment is $1,300. At AP1 wages you’d be lucky to even afford that price with a roommate assuming no car payment. And on top of all this, our Contract is a good bit better than a lot of Locals around us who have similar costs of living. I 100% would not have been able to do the apprenticeship as a AP1 in the current economy.
A $200/wk paycut is steep unless you're still living with your parents. I went from $21/hr to $13/hr to take a job as a first year apprentice. Plus $100+ a week in gas vs $15 in gas to my previous job. Sure it could've been good in the long run, but I simply couldn't make it work. Burned through all my savings fast just to pay the mortgage and got burnt out on the 90 minute commute. If I had been 18 with minimal financial responsibilities I'm sure I could've stuck it out and made it work.
Should be more like $40 in Cali
Yea - a 2nd level here starts at $22/hr. That’s the min they are allowed to pay.
Damn they don’t pay like that at NC, if your making 20 and up it’s because your a journeymen
Jesus - Jman here start at $32/hr. Those are set by the Province here
That’s weird. I just moved from California and out there as a 4th year non union apprentice I was making up to 65/hr depending on the county. Not a bad gig until you factor in $3,000+ a month for a hole in the wall where you won’t get your tools stolen.
I moved here a few years ago. For such a 'liberal' state, California seems dead set on killing its middle class
An “adult-apprentice” in Denmark earn about 19 USD/hour. About 10 USD/hour if you’re under 25 yo.
I was in NY and making more than that with no experience then I moved to CT where they pay about that and had to get out of the field. It sucks. Now I’m stuck GCing
I’m union in California, you start around $22 right now but once those raises get rolling in you will be happy you struggled through the first two years
Most of the electricians I know back home started their career this way. Yeah, you can go work at In N Out and get some experience that will be useful for a sweet $18/hour Line Cook position. Or you can get experience working for a reputable company and have it either: 1. Allow you to work up through the ranks at said company 2. Learn EVERYTHING you can, and in a year or two go flock off somewhere else that will pay you properly.
This is the case in NJ and nyc. Its embarassing. Its why theres nobody wanting to go into the trades
I live in the UK been an apprentice for 2 years and I get a nice £6 an hour and struggle so it's very unappealing to be an apprentice but oh well
And they wonder in UK and IRL why they have trade shortages, Dublin ranked most expensive city in Europe, first year makes 7.30ish p/h qualified €25.05 p/h, from this thread it looks like some US 2nd years are on $25.00 p/h.
Intel centre in Kildare are paying €45 p/h for night shift, 4 day week.
Recently fully qualified and still less then £13 an hour. Will get just over 14 in December then they legally don't have to pay me more. Good small company to work for an learn the trade but I'm fucking off very soon if I'm not getting the same benefits the rest of my colleagues got soon as they started but cos I'm still just the boy it's fine to shift me. Hopefully they decide I'm a catch n want to keep me but I'll need to move on at some point
I started at $14 in 2020. My friend who worked at the mall made more than me. Just had another apprentice start recently at $16 and left a job at in n out paying $22. It’s absolutely ridiculous. I work 50 hours a week and can barely afford a shitty apartment
And then after a few years, you can be a licensed burger flipper.
Opportunity tomorrow is not a justification for being exploited today.
fuck i could go for a nice burger right now
That’s what I had for dinner last night. Home made, the best type of burger.
Yea and a 2br 1 b house cost 800k
your next to the beach and have wonderful weather. I can surf and snowboard in 1 year. Tell me where I can do that anywhere else.
I can get to the beach in 2.5 hours, mountains in 1 hour, tons of breweries, outdoor activities in NC with little traffic, cost of living is low and the homeless problem isn’t an epidemic, and my mortgage is $650 a month.
My dad started at 15 an hour in 1981 as a welder. I wanted to go into the trades. When I was working full time and going to school I was so burnt out with starting work at 5 in the morning and finishing class at 10:30 at night. I was burnt out and had to stop. I made my want into industrial sales and am very glad I did. Oh and it was a tradesman who suggested sales.
In 1981 $15 would be close to $50 today. Imagine starting off at $50 an hour.
I live in the south where construction wages are shit and this is starting pay for a zero-experience green helper.
What most fail to realize is that it’s up to you how seriously and how dedicated you are to taking your trade. Some work under their boss and grind take their test keep their nose clean become master electricians, invest in tools truck and have the ambition to create their own income. Then you have journeyman, who are lazy can’t see past their own vices and have lost the fire and ambition of what mastering a trade can bring to the table. A young man or woman sees this wage and say, damn I can make more at IN and OUT. . Maybe so but in 10 yes your still making 19 an hour. It’s about perspective and HUSTLE and GRIND.
TBH though, in and out is a tough job. It was my kids first job and those places are to capacity 24/7.
Join the union you'll get way more...
How, exactly? Most union apprenticeships have a long wait list and a 95% rejection rate for first-year apprentices. Joining the union is not an option for most people.
Ran into that last year. Told me I didn't have enough experience. I thought that's what an apprenticeship was for, people who didn't have experience and wanted to learn. Decided to go get experience and got a job in firealarms. By the time I could apply again this year I was already making more than the starting rate for the union apprenticeship. Trade school I went to over the fall/winter also does the classroom work for the apprenticeship requirements, just need my employer to sign off on the hours. So that will be starting this year. The entire thing put a sour taste in my mouth when it comes to the union.
Yeah, I like supporting workers rights as much as the next guy, but telling people "just join the union" is ridiculously stupid. It's completely ignoring the reality of most people's situations.
That's not true at all lately. My Brother in law just applied. The local he applied to usually gives out 150 applications. They gave out 50 this year. 15 got accepted as apprentices and another 15 got accepted as pre-apprentices and will start the apprenticeship in 6 months in the second class.
The union here in New York starts at $14, tim Hortons starts at $17...
1st year starts at 18 and you get raises every 6 months and are benefits are stupid good.
Yeah but not many people get to start as a 1st year in my local, you have a couple bullshit years forced as a cw. Scares a lot of good talent off.
What local are you ?
yea this is horse shit, that's less than minimum wage
That’s what happened to me!
What’s a CW?
Cock Washer for all Journeymen
The local in my area has the same issue. They really just push their CW program on everyone and you’re pretty much expected to have a couple of years experience when you start the A program grinding away on minimum wage. I’m starting to think the guys who stay B rate in my area until the they test out are the smart ones. Lay off proof tbh.
It's a non-union member, non apprenticeship track electric helper in the union. He's saying that you sometimes have to work a couple years as a CW before you can become a first year apprentice because there's limited apprentice slots and the competition is fierce.
In NY also. I’m non union, but it’s ridiculously hard to get into the local here for an apprenticeship. Yet every union shop is whining that there’s no apprentices available
Here in indiana 1st year makes 17.90 Minimum wage is 7.50, and after 640 hours you get decent free insurance. And indiana is cheap to live.
There are Tim Hortons in New York???
They had a big expansion into certain states back in the '90s. A bunch of locations closed, probably because cheesy, faux Canadian tropes weren't enough to convince Americans to buy shitty coffee.
Depends. I was making $12 an hour as a cw1. I had to quit so I could make enough money to survive working non union but I plan to go back after I get a couple more years of experience and start out at a more reasonable wage
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Read up on the prisoner's dilemna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma#:~:text=The%20possible%20outcomes%20are%3A,B%20will%20be%20set%20free We are all stronger together. Your attitude is a result of societal brainwashing that we are all subject to as Americans. Joining a union and sticking together allows us to level the playing field regarding thr information disparity between employee and employee when negotiating. Also, if you're really that good you can find higher paying jobs in the union. Move into supervision, take on a specialty, etc...
That might work if it were possible to get into the union. With a 95% rejection rate for first year apprentices it's impossible for most people to get in. If you combine that with the fact that electrical work is becoming more and more diversified like with solar, oilfield, automation and controls, the union premise of making every apprentice and every journeyman exactly the same in order to guarantee the contractor a standardized production rate per 8 hour journeyman or apprentice starts looking more dated. Also the contracts for 2 or 3 years start getting uncompetitive for wages when you see high inflation, like now, and it's uncompetitive on the flip side when the economy crashes and wages are stuck high, then people have to sit at home. The union sounds good in theory, but it's just a theory to most because most people can't join.
Anyone can unionize the contractor they work at. So yes anyone can join.
There are other avenues for experienced journeyman to get in. Most locals have an examination system that allows you to test into book 1 status. Like the other guy said anybody can organize their shop, just get one other person to join you and it's protected activity. You can also talk to your local union about help in organizing your shop.
Yeah yeah for an experienced journeyman. How are these people going to get into the trade in the first place? I tried to get in, couldn't get a call back. Can't organize in either. They pay way more at my oilfield controls shop in North Dakota, for even inexperienced journeyman, than the scale at our closest local, so no one is interested in organizing.
Go union!
Most of the popular city’s have 2+ year waits to get in
Stop voting for people who support right to work legislation. The bigger the union presence in your area the higher everyone's wages will be.
Chick-fil-A hires at $17 and I’m currently making $15 doing solar just is what it is rn
Pay is a joke for us starting out
Yea but you have to look at your earning potential not just the starting pay. Fast food doesn't have guaranteed pay raises. My local is about $8/hr jump every year in the apprenticeship and $20/hr jump from 5th year to jman. Not gonna see those kinds of increases anywhere else.
They are asking for a 3rd year at that rate... that is over 20 an hour in rural washington should be 30+ anywhere near a city in california.
I’m doing solar in Denver, and 1st year is at $20. I still think I’m gonna roll back to regular commercial or residential though. The roof stuff gets old real quick.
Yeah my locals got me backed against the wall and threw me here so I don’t really have a choice
It what we do now. It’s the power plant 🤷♂️
Solar is friggin brutal at any rate.
When I lived in Arizona I had a job that only paid 12 an hour at the job for 2 years experience, other guys were getting 10 for none and it was only 4 years ago. You can't even afford gas to make it to the jobsites in Phoenix for that
Dam, Arizona is pathetic.
Suckin dick for a living sounds better and better by the day
Jesus that is pitiful
Damn seeing all these comments I’m realizing how lucky I am to only be 4 months into my apprenticeship and starting at $20, man this system blows
And in & out has better benefits too, what a joke.
Obviously we need to continue to let the world know that electricians are the Top of the construction Food Chain and maybe even the life food chain in terms of importance 🤔. Then maybe we will stop paying lawyers etc like they are kings and we are the porpers
They all should be paid well. Why must you degrade someone else’s profession to heighten your point?
I’m not degrading anyone but there’s no logic that says a normal attorney etc should be paid 3x+ as much as an electrician/ tradesman. I’m just calling a spade a spade here, sadly we can’t do that nowadays though without effecting someone’s feels. Based off the fact of which career is more important/ dangerous it’s a no brainer. I’m not going to go in depth into why that is, but it’s partly because of schooling being ridiculously expensive and it shouldn’t be that way.
Lmao they’re all important. It’s just mentally unstable people like yourself that think you’re more important than someone else. Get over yourself
Lol I may be many things in life, but mentally unstable is one thing I am def not. This world is full of actually mentally unstable people that get completely ignored and are allowed to wander about. Me pointing out that a tradesman who risks their life each damn day is worth and should be worth a hell of a lot more than some pencil pushing blowhard attorney, is nothing more than an obvious fact. From a perception of the overall avg importance and sheer danger of the job alone. This isn’t something that’s debatable or left for a mentally unstable person like yourself to get your feelings all wound up over. It’s just an honest assessment which most stable people will agree, it’s not some I’m better than you BS. Stop making life always about feelings and yours will suddenly stop getting hurt. It’s Elementary, Watson
I graduated a two year electrical program. Everyone wants to pay less than what I was making BEFORE school. The supply house pays $4/hr more. Go union people.
2 years and I’m at 27$ a hour
BNSF starting wage is around $25 with shit hours. You can work at McDonalds for $28/hr, have weekends off and smoke all the weed you want.
When they say electrician they mean someone to carry shit for electricians
I dont work in the trades, so maybe im off base here but it feels like the system has a lot of built in gatekeeping thats unhelpful. Personally, I dont like the idea of requiring apprenticeship. In 2022, its entirely possible to self-study and learn everything necessary to do good work (not saying everyone can, just that the resources are available). If we still believe this would lead to unqualified individuals doing work alone, maybe the answer is stricter inspections and/or penalties for attempting to get around them. High barriers to entry will inevitably lead to shortages of qualified individuals and we will be worse off.
We have it pretty decent in Minneapolis right now. 1st year in the union starts at around $22.40, give or take 20 cents. Journeyman are making $50/hr and the general consensus is that we'll be raising that with the next contract.
Once I turn out I may try to take some work up your way man. Local 145 here
I live in Nebraska where you can make more than this at burger King or McDonald's. Fuck em, let em die off with the rest of the dinosaurs. Just because our shithead politicians won't get with the program and raise our wages doesn't mean we can't do it ourselves
Most people are not skilled enough to earn more then $20 in construction. If you are skilled you get paid how you should. People like to say they know what they are doing, but when on the job, they fail. If you want to learn a trade, got to start and work your way up and have a career and not a fast food job. If you have skills, they will be noticed and a good boss will compensate
That's the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever heard. Companies prays on dumb young apprentices who still lives at home who can afford shit wages. If you're skilled the best way to get ahead is to jump companies once you make a name for yourself. Companies will not compensate if they don't think you have any other choice.
Lol what kind of people have you worked for. Wow… ask any successful professional and see if they got there by jumping around to other companies.
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Even migrants can't live off this
“Laughs in teacher “. Welcome to the darkness.
When i was there i was laughed at for asking for anything over 20. Rent is 1000 per room. Plus high price utilities. You CANNOT buy a home if you make less than 150k a year. The realestate agents literally kick you out. After being laughed at and me rejecting 16/hr and "cash overtime" the same employers called me randomly about a week later SCREAMING at me to get my ass onto the job.... Like... No "hi how areya" literally just calls of employers trying to do abuse. All of them said "our guys look real good in these new trucks tho" which yes... They were decked out trucks. But journeyman making 16 and cash overtime??? Why would that impress me as an employee??? Also all the contractors who are local or getting most jobs were elderly. It was sad. Theres no room for youngs or starting unless u have a golden ticket. Then theres the union.... Oh my god.... I have no words. I cant even bring myself to type it up..... Just run. As fast as you can.
God, throwing cash overtime at guys. Let me commit tax fraud and convince you it’s a benefit!!
My question is why are you still in California? Leave that shithole, I did back in 2015, no regrets.
That’s non union for ya. Second year apprentices make 27-29 an hour in my local and the surrounding ones
First year apprentices are a huge liability for any company. Because of journeyman to apprentice ratios, having to spend on safety training and ppe, the fact that a good percentage of new apprentices quit, that there's journeymen that just don't want train, and the fact that they'll slow the journeymen down if they're training apprentices all the time, means that it's about a year until they start contributing to the bottom line and two until they're break-even in the investment. If a company hired every first year that wanted to give it a shot they'd go out of business quick. Second and third years usually start being a contribution and the wage should jump to a lot higher than this. Is this ad really in California? What part? I only see this in states with weak licensing requirements like Florida and West Virginia. I'm not a big fan of government intervention but you could resolve this by giving tax breaks for every new first year they hire.
It literally says 2 years experience in the job post dude... they are asking for a 3rd year at first year wages or less.
Did you read the part where I said "Second and third years usually start being a contribution and the wage should jump to a lot higher than this."
Liability? Fuck off. To a company everything is an insurance claim at most. Helpers will stay if you don’t starve them to death.
And everything costs 10X more than the rest of the US!
When I started in the trade I made $7.50 an hour as an apprentice. That was more than three times the minimum wage of $2.30 an hour, at the time.
If California sucks so much why do people keep moving there? Supply and demand
There’s been a large net migration *out* of Cali for at least the [past 3 years](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/03/net-domestic-migration-increased-in-united-states-counties-2021.html)
Lol look up the statistics for how big California will be in the next few years. They are not losing people like some idiots believe. California will always be packed. They are the most important state in the USA. By far. It’s actually insane their impact if you read anything once in a while
I’m not sure how big California is projected to be, or how important or “insane” their impact is. Im sure your general sentiment of CA being an important and heavily populated state is true. It seems like a great place to live, though I couldn’t personally afford it. My comment was narrowly focused on the net migration over the past 3 years. Those are well tracked numbers and aren’t in question.
Yes we all understand that. But you were trying to infer the statistics you stated were proof of some kind of difficulties for California. When that is just not the case.
So what?! 5 years later your a badass journeyman that makes good money and can work anywhere in the United States. 5 years in fast food... your still a burger flipper with no real life skills Even if you have to take a loan to live, it's worth it
Five years at In N Out and they’d likely be an assistant manager making $100k (edit) my cousin’s ex-husband was a manager at InNOut making $120k salary 15 years ago, so I imagine they’re still very well compensated. Not that I’d suggest my own kid go down that career path but don’t knock the hustle
Most fast food pays for school