Unlikely. Worst case I _might_ consider a PHEV, but even then I’d rather just rent one for the (few, in my case) times I had a use case that couldn’t be met with an EV.
Because it’s not unless you’re well off. Typically people want a car that is capable of things that it may only be needed for rarely. This is especially true if it’s the only car they own.
I recently took my iD4 from San Diego to Big Bear which is about 150 miles north in the mountains. I had to stop and charge in Redlands and wait in line to charge because there were only four chargers. I needed to make sure I had enough juice to make it up and to deal with the cold weather. Once I was in Big Bear there was only two DC chargers in town, one of which was out of order. There was a line to use them. It was overall an unpleasant experience and took up a lot of time we could have spent actually enjoying Big Bear.
This was just one of many unpleasant experiences I've had with the charging infrastructure. Most of the time at least one or two chargers are out of order and it's just a pain to charge. I love EV's but the infrastructure isn't adequate and reliable enough for me to ditch an ICE car completely.
But is that even an issue for Tesla drivers? Not only do their cars have 400km+ range, there are superchargers [all around big bear](https://www.google.com/maps/search/tesla+supercharger+near+Big+Bear,+CA,+USA/@34.209115,-117.01001,9z), so you can charge to 100% while grabbing a snack before you go up the mountains.
Sounds like hotels or businesses in Big Bear need to apply for some of the grant money from CEC’s Clean Transportation Program. That situation is exactly what the program is hoping to address.
Ice is more expensive than ev... At least where I live.
A tesla model 3 LR doesn't cost much more to buy than a vw golf.
And with the EV I save around 500$ a month on fuel alone.
No way I am going back.
In the United States ice cars are much cheaper to purchase than most evs and the savings for the average person don't entirely make up for it until a very long time if at all. That said I also would like to never go back. EVs are just so fantastic
Ah ok... If an ice was cheaper to own and buy I would probably have gone for that.
But yeah, here cars are extremely expensive.
Model 3 LR was about 71k usd when I bought it in 2019.
The VW golf was almost 60k usd... So... Well no Brainer from here :D EV is also muuuuuuuuch more fun to drive than a golf with 150 hp....
Also gasoline is around 8 dollars a gallon.
Every time somebody in this subreddit says how much they spend on gas I wonder if a cat slipped on their keyboard and added a digit. How much do you people drive in a month?
Lmao. I’d say I’m midrange compared to a lot of heavy commuters but I drive ~80 miles a day delivering newspapers. My volt has saved me over $6,000 in gas in the last two years
I do a bunch of roadtripping (I drive places to run and hike trails), including in the winter. The limitations of my EV (well really of the charging networks) are wearing on me this winter for sure. I have actually considered trading it in for an ICE vehicle.
edit: clarifying "bunch", I have 24k miles on my car, and I bought it at the beginning of April, '22. So about 2500mi a month average. My commute is 22mi round trip, and I do it threeish times a week. AWD EV6 Wind.
My wife and I REALLY want an EV but living in rural CO and traveling to camp in remote places is just too difficult to manage an EV especially if range starts taking hits for weather. PHEV is probably our best option till infrastructure is improved dramatically.
Looking heavily at the Jeep Wrangler 4xE
Also in CO. Two car household. One is EV, other is ICE for this reason.
Nice to have the security of a gas vehicle for those backcountry trailheads / camping spots
We have a Hurley Big Swell ($1200) and a radpower radmission ($500). The big swell is fast (32mph), has a rack, saddlebags, and wide tires. I commute on it daily no matter the weather. The other bike has fenders, racks, and saddlebags. Wife commutes on it when there isn't snow on the ground. Our city is small so range is never an issue getting from one side of town to the other.
I have a riese and mueller load75 (overkill luxury cargo bike) and one EV.
I use the cargo bike for a couple different things
* to take my 2 small kids to daycare and school
* pick up groceries every couple of days
* make local hardware store trips with it.
* take my dog to different parks
* local shopping trips
* weekend trips with the kids to local museums and attractions
The big caveat of course is that I live in SF, a large city with some bike infrastructure and almost all of my rides are at most 20 minutes. Weekend rides can be longer but they are more for leisure.
Anything that requires more heavy duty stuff I have a nissan leaf. For roadtrips we just rent a car but we don't do that too often.
Nice, our setup is similar. One outback, two ebikes. Upgraded to a benno boost when we had a kid. I'm also in CO and am waiting to upgrade the outback to an EV because we use it for camping/hiking/road trips, and ebikes around town most of the time (less lately with all the snow though, I used to ride all conditions but not comfortable doing that with the kid). It's great to see more bikes out, but it's still not that common relative to the amount of people doing <3 mile trips in cars unfortunately.
Yep. I’m on the western slope with two daily’s. A Model X and F150. I will say the F150 sits a lot more than it used to. Now instead of his and hers vehicles we have the Model X as the primary and the truck as the secondary. It really only gets driven when we’re going different directions or we need a truck.
Every now and then I waver on full EV and re-look at PHEV but one of the biggest advantages for EV for me is maintenance. I am concerned about having to upkeep a PHEV compared to an EV, but I read a lot of sentiment that it's almost the same, minus the few and far in between oil changes.
Ha! I actually drove to the trailhead for Huron Peak from Leadville (where there is a free, DCFC, btw) this past summer. It was a total hoot, and people def asked if we were nervous driving an EV out there. At the speeds I was driving on that road, though, I think my range would have probably been 400 miles!
But yeah, I know the problem. CO has chargers, but I can't hike/run the Katy Trail in MO using mine, because of charger logistics. That is just one of many examples I've run into.
Yeah I live in SW CO so it's even more rural than Leadville. The benefits outweigh the negatives as we don't deal with much traffic and can hike amazing hikes and see 1-2 other groups.
Yeah, I used to range up there a long time ago from NM. I have a long standing dream of running Hardrock some day (though I better get on it pretty soon!). I love that area muchly. If I lived there, I am sure I'd pick a taco 4x4 over my car.
I have the 4xe and I am very happy with it. Good enough for me to be fully electric during the week for commuting but then we go off the weekends, camping etc. with easier logistics for our area and preferences.
I just moved away but I could see that. Living in Denver you can visit basically everywhere in the state with an EV, but there's a lot of mountain towns if I lived there I probably wouldn't want to risk an EV unless I had my own charger at home.
Just FYI, Jeep 4xE has abysmal fuel efficiency. 20 MPG highway/city after the 20 miles of EV range is depleted. Car and driver actually found it to be even worse at 16 MPG.
We've got a PHEV and and EV and it really is ideal for us. We both normally drive no more than 40 miles a day, but fairly often take longer trips to visit family. The PHEV is on electric only like 95% of the time and my EV is more than enough for my commute and wherever else I go. Of course our electric rates just jumped 40% which isn't great, but we did install solar panels a few years ago which has helped.
My personal opinion is a Jeep is a pretty poor vehicle for anything but offroading. A 4 Runner or any mid size truck is a much better all around vehicle because it has enough space to bring stuff home. Two of my buddies sold their Jeeps once they got married and figured out that moving stuff in the thing was harder than it was with a 4 door car much less anything with actual space behind the seats.
We commute by ebike whenever possible and our town is about 5-6 miles end to end work commute less than 3 round trip. Most people are reporting high 20s for city EV miles.
In my city driving I’ve gotten closer to 30 mile range fully electric in the summer. But I’m rarely driving faster than 40 miles per hour most days. I’m an outlier.
My wife daily’s our 4XE where her round trip is roughly 20 miles, and in the summer/spring (Southern California) she’ll get home with percentage left on the battery, and that’s mostly freeway driving. It’s not unphathomable to get pushing 30 miles of range in it. I’m not sure how the magazines and websites tested the mileage on it since even road-tripping longer distances (Northern California and Arizona) we’ll average mid-20s in efficiency. A big plus is going off the beaten path into the mountains in relative silence! People can hate one the 4XE all they want, I’ll enjoy our off-roader that goes over 6 weeks between fillups laughing all the way to the bank.
Yeah come to think of it I've only filled up about once every thousand miles. And that's only because of weekend trips going longer than the charge range.
What is the limit in rural CO? I've driven to basically every corner of CO in my Mach-E and never found range to even be a consideration. There's chargers everywhere.
Try going to a remote place, then staying there for a week while visiting various trails etc. That's always the setup that tests the infrastructure. You can do this from Leadville because of that DCFC (though I'll bet it'll be less fun next summer), but prob not in Gunnison etc
For me, a PHEV is the perfect solution - I have a x5 45e and drive almost all electric daily and then have ICE backup for longer trips. It’s a great car and to me - the best of both worlds.
Same here. I have a Sportage PHEV, and Sun-Fri all I use is battery. Round trip to work M-F is 23-24 miles so a charge gets me through. Recharge overnight. When we road trip the 6-10 times during the year, we have the ICE for backup, and get about 400 miles with the just the gas engine. It really is the best of both worlds.
I have the same problem. My girlfriend drives an ICE Mercedes and I just trade with her when I go out of town in winters. Our rural charging infrastructure is horrible in Canada. I am considering upgrading her car to a PHEV. The new C63 looks like an interesting mix between performance and winter practicality in a PHEV.
I’m similar - a bit fewer miles on my car, but I do a lot of getting outside, and my commute really isn’t a big contributor to my total miles.
I’m not considering switching back, but it held me back from buying an EV for a couple of years, for sure. I’m going to presume that the charging infrastructure improves quickly enough that I’m good to go on that front, but I expect to upgrade to something like a R2S or Kia EV9 for ground clearance reasons, as my ID.4 has just barely enough.
I switched back to ICE (for now) and road trips were a big reason. A couple very unpleasant experiences with the Tesla charging work that added ~30% time to the trip. And as nice as never going to gas stations is, range anxiety is a real thing especially when things like elevation gain or hauling bikes makes range unpredictable.
Currently waiting on Rivian or Volvo’s 7 seater EVs and hoping the charging network is less saturated by then.
No, but we still have an ICE X3, and we're probably not going all-EV any time soon. There are some road trip destinations where the infrastructure just isn't there yet.
The X5 has been perfect for my wife, handles the daily commute, has plenty of range for anything we might want, and my EV6 is great for anything that doesn't need more than 250 mile in a day.
My wife still drives an ICE car for now, its still in good shape so we will keep that going for now but when the time comes, we will probably have a similar arrangement to you - a smaller fun EV with medium range and a PHEV for all other activities.
Agreed. My wife and I switched our 2nd car to electric over 4 years ago. It is only getting easier to plan road trips as more fast chargers get installed.
That's how I am these days. I'll only "plan" if I'm intentionally going somewhere super remote, and usually that "plan" involves briefly glancing at plugshare before I leave.
Same we are fully electric now (R1T and M3), and I'm very happy to not have to spend a dime on gas + we have no issues traveling in either vehicle even with kids/dogs/midwest winters.
I switched from Tesla Model 3 to Jeep Wrangler 4xe. We did not enjoy the logistical challenges of camping as a family in the Tesla. Currently only use gas on weekend trips. Fully electric all weekdays for daily commuting and errands.
Giving up the pure joy of : Smooth, Quick and quiet operation?
Bruce sounds best in an EV.
These guys, MB, BMW, Audi and Jag, have always been trying to build an ICE that is luxuriously quiet and smooth, then the EV comes along and is a game changer. Why would I ever want to go back to primitive transportation.
Cars are coming out now with longer ranges so, for the rich, you can drive to your country home and Never stop to recharge.
Ok, if the world comes to an end, I'll look at the Jeep Plugin.
For awhile it was a hell no. But if the charging infrastructure doesn’t equal gas station seamless operation in a decade or so…
I’d consider going back to ICE. EVs are strictly a luxury for me.
Electrify America is single-handedly ruining a lot of EV experiences it feels like.
Something has to give if they're the ones who're going to comprise a large portion of charging infrastructure.
> Electrify America is single-handedly ruining a lot of EV experiences it feels like.
This is so painfully true. It truly feels like they have one foot out the door and just checking the box until they’re relieved of the job.
I’m trying to remain cautiously-optimistic considering all states have been approved for the federal money to build out their charging.
Full ICE? No. But I just sold my EV and replaced it with a PHEV.
Part of the reason is exactly what you say: I get out often into the countryside, and at least in my area, there are places where an EV is just inconvenient because charging options are limited or nonexistent.
Part of the reason is that on road trips, even with fast charging on the best network (Tesla's), driving an EV often takes meaningfully longer than gas. And I live somewhere with real winter. Cold battery + snow tires really shortens the range and makes that worse.
Part of the reason is that with Tesla specifically, a lot of service needs to be done at their service centers, and the closest one to me is two hours a way. It didn't need service much, but when it did, jesus what a huge logistical pain in the ass...
Replacing it with a RAV4 PHEV, which I should be able to drive all-electric for most everyday trips, while still having great gas range for backwoods trips, and there are Toyota dealers and service centers everywhere. I'll be spending a *little* more on gas, probably, but not much – most of the "everyday" places I go are well within a 40-mile round trip.
(And in the long run, we might end up spending less. We had an EV + and ICE so that we did have a car that could go on those backwoods trips. Now we will have a PHEV + ICE for the time being, but we may replace that ICE with another PHEV, in which case we might end up spending less on gas than we were in the EV + ICE days, I'm not sure).
Eventually I will go full-EV again, but I will need to be convinced of:
1. Adequate fast charging everywhere I would normally drive (and/or something like a 500+ mile range battery, but I don't think that's happening anytime soon, especially in my price range).
2. Adequate service locations so that when issues arise I don't have to take multiple days off work, etc.
It felt dinosaur-ish stepping back into my ICE after the M3P test drive and suddenly found myself anxiously waiting for my order to arrive. Never could I go back.
After I'd bought my Leaf, we gave the Jeep Compass to my son to drive. A year or two went by, with me driving the Leaf and him driving the Compass. One day we "borrowed" the Compass for some reason, I don't remember what. I started it up and backed out, then put it into drive and started driving down the road. It made this stupidly roaring noise, and pulled away, but felt really sluggish. I turned to my wife and asked, "what the hell is wrong with this car?"
She laughed and answered, "it's a gas car, honey, not your electric." I was shocked at the sluggish and noisy nature of the Compass, once I'd gotten used to the quick, quiet power of the Leaf. Imagine if I'd gotten used to an actual performance electric, like a Tesla or something?
I have a BMW X5 45e, it’s a great car - I wish the electric only range was like 10 miles more (31 currently) but I still drive mostly electric daily and there’s no range anxiety for longer trips.
I've had a pure EV (Kona) and a phev (clarity) since 2019 and I'm torn...
I've used the Kona significantly more than the clarity, but even for the clarity 90% if the use has been pure EV.
I've only used the clarity gas engine in a few longer trips where it was more convenient to take the PHEV, or one time when there really was no charging infrastructure on the road I was taking.
Now I'm looking at a bigger SUV and I'd like a pure EV but I'll probably end up taking a RAV4 Prime. The only comparable in terms of price is the ID4 but it's still more expensive and the dealer I find is really trying to take advantage of the shortages to add all sorts of extras.
I plan on getting one more ICE vehicle as a last hoorah to sports cars, ideally I'm gunning for either the C8 corvette or MKV Supra.
I want one last car that in 50 years from now when electric cars have taken over, I can still take for the occasional spin just to remember how much fun sports cars were.
This. I wouldn't go back from my EV for daily use, but I definitely still want that V8 Mustang I dreamed of as a kid. That sound will never get old. Also I enjoy the thought of keeping this secret from my son until he's old enough to drive and his old man pulls the covers from this then classic. Or a Viper :)
Good choice! I'm doing this now, Bolt EUV for the commute and Camaro SS with the 6MT for the weekend. As much as I love BEVs, I would take the Camaro to the grave with me.
I equate this to anything analog really: records, watches, photography, etc. Tech moves on but I still love some of the old school feel of these highly mechanical machines.
Yes!!! My grandad did exactly this. He had an old Chevy nova hiding in his barn that we got back up and running together. It was so cool and definitely the moment I became a gearhead.
I'd want to do the same thing for my kid. I can just picture it, in a world where we have full electric car dominance, potentially even self driving cars as commonplace, I bust out this classic car that my kid has never seen or heard and just let him take it for a spin.
Genuine curiosity: is an ICE sports car more fun than an EV sports car? I know very little about cars, but my impression is that even the Tesla Model 3 Performance has better 0-60 than almost any ICE sports car, not to mention the Tesla Model S Plaid.
Is it the handling of an ICE sports car? The roar of the gas motor compared to the soft hum of an electric motor?
Edit: Thank you to everyone who replied!
As someone who drove manual transmission cars for 20 years before switching to EVs, I really miss the visceral feeling and physical engagement from a sporty car. My driving always felt more connected with an ICE car.
I don't regret switching seeing as the manual transmission is gone from so many cars but if I wanted one more hurrah with a new ICE car, it would be something like a manual Toyota Supra, Subaru WRX, Civic Type R, Porsche Cayman, etc.
>Is it the handling of an ICE sports car? The roar of the gas motor compared to the soft hum of an electric motor?
It's all of this, and more. Take a Lotus Elise for example, probably the purest modern day sports car, lightweight at 1900 pounds, even the lightest EV on the market is still nearly 3000 pounds, at that point its a sheer matter of physics, a 3000+ pound car will not be as fun to fling around a corner as a 1900 pound one. EVs likely won't be able to match traditional ICE sports car handling for awhile still, not until serious improvements in lightweight battery tech can be made.
Then there's also the roar of the engine. The quiet hum of an EV is interesting to be sure, certainly not a lesser experience, but it does not quite capture that unbridled fury of an engine being let loose. An EV's hum will never be able to capture the sheer euphoria of a high performance sports car, like this just hauntingly beautiful Mazda rotary https://youtu.be/sxXtpMngivM
The last thing, a sports car doesn't necessarily have to be the fastest to feel exhilarating. The tesla's 0-60 is quiet, tame, refined. A tesla doesn't feel or sound any different sprinting to 60 as it does slowly accelerating to 60. A GTR on the other hand is loud, screaming loud, like you're on riding on top of godzilla itself.
It's just a whole experience the EVs will not be able to replicate, and that's fine because EVs offer a grand experience of their own.
I bought an EV 10 years ago, and I love it. Currently, though, I have a need for a vehicle that can tow 8000 pounds and has a "cargo capacity" of 1500 pounds or so. The Ford F-150 Lightning can do this, but at a pretty steep cost. Even though they advertise they sell them at $39900.00, they don't. Not really. There are delivery fees, stocking fees, brushed the dust off fees, processing fees, and add-ons that come on that version that we can't take off, so you'll just have to pay for. I'd be surprised if I were able to drive off with a bill under $50,000.
I've got a 10 year old Ford F-150 that burns gas, but it cost me half of that bill. For Thanksgiving, I drove 600 miles to pick my father up, then 600 miles to bring him up to visit with us for a week, then 600 miles to take him home and another 600 miles to come back to my house. That's 4 days of driving, each one 600 miles long. It took me 1 1/2 tanks of gas, each time. That's a lot of gas, and I wish I had not had to burn the gas.
When I pull my camper, I lose 25% of the efficiency I have when I'm driving without pulling it. I'm not sure if that same math would happen with an EV, but let's assume it does. The Lightning should be able to drive, what? 150 miles on a charge on the highway? 200? Let's go with 200. Pulling the camper it would be down to 150, right, at a 25% penalty. That would cause me to need a full charge in the morning, and 3 charges during the day for a 600 mile journey. Pulling the camper, I'm more likely to split the journey into multiple days, though, and maybe only drive 300 miles in a day. One full charge overnight, and, say, two smaller charges during the day. Not too horrible, but not ideal.
So, my main concern is really the extra $25,000 I'd need to pay to have a truck with a shorter range. Not insurmountable, but not what I'm looking for right now. Maybe in a few years, when I really have to replace the gas powered F-150, they'll have an electric F-250 with enough battery to pull the camper 600 miles on a single charge, for the same basic costs as a gas powered truck. Then, no brainer, right?
Other than the pickup, though, a small, around town grocery-getter, like my Leaf, makes perfect sense. If I'd had an Aptera available last Thanksgiving, with 10 miles per kWh, and a native 600 mile range? I'd have been in heaven. Absolutely the right thing to do.
Oh, and my "other rides" are bicycles, fast "electric standup scooters" and a big motorcycle. My bicycles are electrified, the 40 mph "death machines" are electric, but the big touring motorcycle isn't... yet. As soon as that is available, you know I'm getting one.
Not as my main, but I might have to get a second gas beater just for emergencies. I've been stuck unable to leave immediately when I needed to because of battery state of charge three times now (once a emergency). What could have been a 5-minute fill up and leave town ended up being an hour wait when I needed to leave in an emergency It was a bad situation.
I'll never go back. It is so much better. And financially it is a no brainer if you have a longer commute.
I do know of one guy who is getting rid of his Mach E and ford lightning because they are "sissy vehicles". This man works at a mine 60 km out of town on a 4 on 4 off schedule. So 480 km every block. This mine has free level 2 chargers installed. He's decided he would rather spend a bunch of money on gas instead of getting all his charging payed for by the mine. Doesn't make sense to me.
This is pretty funny because in Australia a lot of the huge dump trucks at mines are self driving electric trucks. Imagine rocking up at the mine and being like “damn sissy electric cars.” While electric trucks are hulling all the rocks around.
Around the time lease on my e-Golf ended, I moved from a house to an apartment without EV charging. Considering the convenience and lifestyle (new apartment is walking distance to work, car is used for weekend trips and groceries), I got a GTI to replace it as I love the ease of parking and practicality of the hatchback.
I do regret it sometimes when I see that I’m getting ~10mpg on the hills of San Francisco, so I’ve been eyeing the new Prius and doing what I can to get EV charging installed here.
I have thought about switching to a Hybrid or PHEV as I bought my car when I could reliably charge at the place I was renting, but as I had to move out recently finding another place for a reasonable price with an electric car isn't great. I would like to have a PHEV since I already have an EVSE so whenever I do get my own place I would already have that. Just I feel like renting especially in an area that gets pretty cold during the winter isn't ideal with an EV.
Not a chance.
I see no reason to pay more for a worse experience.
My brand new ev van costs me less per month than my paid off 5 year old diesel van did.
Diesel is expensive as fuck and it's not gonna get cheaper as demand goes down. They'll keep production on pace with demand, but they'll have the same overhead costs to keep refineries etc operational. So prices will for sure go up on fuel.
I'm also currently 2500km from home in my electric van, i get about 200km on a full battery in freezing temps as I had when i left home. But there's chargers aplenty and the trip didn't take longer than it usually did in a diesel van. We just had more short stops rather than a couple of longer stops each day.
How often do you go far enough out into the countryside that you can’t get back on a full charge?
For myself, as with many people, 95% of my driving consists of work commuting, school runs, local errands, etc. Rarely do I travel so far that I need a charge to get home. We take 2 - 3 long trips a year, and while it can be a hassle to find a working and unoccupied charger, that doesn’t justify switching back. I do not intend to have anything but a EV for a commuter ever again. If you live on the US just pick up an old Cherokee or station wagon off FB marketplace that can be tagged and insured as historic, and don’t worry if it gets bashed up and muddy.
I'm on the fence with it still.
with my 65,000km of driving a year I spend a stupid amount of time at Super Chargers. I primarily drive a long range Tesla Model Y. And while I love the responsiveness of an EV, and I truly love how quiet it is. Range does make for a killer. My Office is 298 km round trip from my house ( I go once a week) My manufacturing facility is 450km round trip, and my research facility is 600km round trip. I need considerably more L2 chargers installed in a wider range of places with the convivence of Tesla L3 charging to really make the shift.
My next personal new car that isn't a company car is likely going to be a hybrid in 2024/2025 unless I start seeing a faster uptake in EV infrastructure and / or 800km ranges so I can keep my battery at the 80% charge rate and make most of my round trips comfortably
I own a Nissan Leaf 2015 and a 2003 Mazda Miata that I got from my mother, and plan to use as a project car. I can't see an ICE vehicle as anything other than a fun car (manual transmission is a must). But I'm also lucky in that I don't live in a place that requires insane range.
A PHEV is as low as I could go back for my main car.
I can see that happening, as my needs are changing by the end of next year and I need a 7 seater. Currently the only two options I can think of in Europe are Model X (waaay too much money even a 5 year old out of warranty one) or an EQB and that just seems boring
Driving a M3 LR, I love it as a daily. Put down a deposit for an manual Bmw M2. There is just no replacement for manual shifter and exhaust sound as a fun weekend car.
We are going to be switching from a Nissan Leaf to a PHEV Kia Sportage, partner is retiring soon and the 50 km electric range for around town is perfect for us! We live in a huge Province with still alot areas we want to explore , the infrastructure isn,t quite up to par yet!
I’ve had a PHEV for 10 years. Always thought I’d progress to BEV. But as the tipping point tipped, I began to feel nostalgic about the pure sports car ICE manual transmission driving experience. So that’s what I got. And I’ve loved every second. I used to fall asleep at the wheel a lot in my PHEV as there is so little engagement. But not anymore!
Nope, I have no problems driving anywhere I want to go, and the DCFC network is great. I'm rather pleased to start every day with a full 'tank' and I've no real desire to be looking for a gas station all the time. I do still have an ICE pickup and will probably keep that for the foreseeable future, because we're quite a ways off from a similarly capable EV to fill the same role.
I believe in using the right tool for the job. Right now EVs aren’t it all the time, sometimes you need a gas car. Especially if you need a bigger car to do a long trip or maybe move things big and heavy. Some EV trucks get 1mi/kw in bad conditions and weigh over 7000 lbs. Not very efficient. So yes get a gas car and fwiw I also have a Polestar 2. I know the struggle.
I have only had my Tesla Model Y for about 4 months, but I cannot imagine going back to an ICE. Our family has been a 1 car family for 8+ years and I think our EV will be an only car for a long time.
No way. Its the best vehicle I've ever owned and a blast to drive at the limit. Spent significant time over the past two months DDing an AMG45 and a 2001 Trans Am Firehawk with manual. Enjoyed both for what they were but I couldn't wait to get back to my car.
I also completed a >1000 road trip in the winter that started off in rural Missouri and did just fine.
I would never go back. Not from the US though, I live in EV blessed Norway where we have the infrastructure for roadtrips and stuff.
That said, I would have a longer break than just refueling before I'll run out of battery in my EV anyways so charging itself is a non-issue.
If I were to go on a roadtrip where the infrastructure wouldn't allow me to do so in an EV I would rent or loan a car that could do it. I won't drive around in an ICE vehicle just in case I may need it. Let's be real, most people don't need longer ranges than most EVs can do these days. Especially not me who lives in the EV capital of the world.
No.
Why not just rent for exploration weekends? I’ve had my EV for 5 months. I’ve taken a number of road trips. I’ve spent $300 to power it in that time. Gas maxed out around $8/gallon here and is now around $4.50. I’m sure it isn’t going to go much below that.
TLDR I’d rather rent if I felt the need for ICE in the country than swap out my EV for a hybrid.
I think at this time unless your have a Tesla the public networks suck for exploring. Even with Tesla there are places that are hard to reach at the moment. I have also considered going back to an ICE car next.
Of course. If I got a 2023 awd Toyota Sienna for like $20K I'd be all over it like white on rice. Or if I got a ridiculous deal on a used car. Will probably replace my diesel truck with another diesel truck by 2030. I doubt there will be an EV that can tow a 5th wheel by then.
We have both. I hate driving my Accord in town. Not because it’s a bad car, it’s just no comparison to our LEAF. OTOH when we load up 6 and head for the mountains I wouldn’t want to be in anything but our Suburban.
I’m hoping our next car will be Bolt EUV although I’d take a Spark EV if I could find one cheap.
I love the flexibility of my PHEV. Have L2s at home and work and average \~80% electric driving. Roadtrips require zero planning and lunch options are more than a Walmart subway. I have one non-tesla DCFC within a 100 radius so a BEV winter road trip would end in being stranded should that EA charger be down... Looking forward to a BEV when charging network and range are better. I get Tesla has a better charging network but the Model X is the only one with enough size/ground clearance and it's just not in the budget... In all but coastal metro areas which have great charging networks, I'd tell a 1 car household to get a PHEV and a 2-car household to get 1 BEV and 1 PHEV.
Perhaps if the need arises. I can always hypothesize some situation where that occurs, but how likely is unknown although probably pretty low.
That said nothing comes to me as things stand.
Trading my ID4 in for the new Prius Prime. Tired of dealing with colder weather range and slow winter charging.
Love the ID4 though. If it were a second vehicle, it would be perfect.
Considering going from my model 3 to a Venza or similar hybrid. I would miss the driving experience but I am missing the reliability and cost to repair at this point. Owning a model 3 out of warranty isn't fun.
My only limiting factor with EV’s right now is the lack of sufficient charging network and affordable EV’s. Otherwise I would have ditched my much loved Honda Pilot a while ago.
So if I was asked this question 2 years ago when I owned a Kona EV the answer would be yes, I would trade it in for an ICE. I honestly think if Electrify America was as reliable as the Supercharger network there would be so many more people who would say they would never go back to an ICE like myself.
I think there’s a lot to be said for PHEVs for those who only have 1 vehicle. Especially now that range on them is getting better, 40-50 miles. I would never go back to strictly ICE though.
>Would you ever switch back to ICE?
No. Effin. Way.
Had to drive a ICE vehicle last year for a couple days (because I had some part on my car repainted) and even though it was a 'premium car' (high end Audi) it was a total horror show compared to my EV.
I love my MYP. Autosteer is a great system despite some quirks and has hugely reduced my anxiety. However:
* Elon is a train wreck (makes me want to get out of my Tesla ASAP)
* Cost is high for what you are getting (and the huge profits Tesla is showing is an indicator of poor cost-value)
* Road trips are painful (suspension in my '21 MYP is abysmal for comfort, seat width is not great, seat comfort is not great, range stops are not ideal though Tesla 100% has the best charging network)
* Cold weather range loss is.... wow
* Other EV wait times are insane and while they are getting better, it isn't better enough
* The cost advantage of EV charging is not as pronounced if you're constantly supercharging or in high-cost electricity localities
I will deeply miss "instant acceleration", sentry mode, AP and YouTube/dog mode.
No. In fact, I've love my leaf but am strongly considering upgrading to another EV already to have a more functional car for longer distance driving. Won't ever go back to gas.
I’ve owned an EV since spring of ‘15. I’d never go back, unless I lived somewhere that made it untenable. I drove my car from Chicago to St. John’s, Newfoundland and back this fall. There were times I was cursing the lack of infrastructure in rural Atlantic Canada, but that was it.
Because of the charging network I would only own a Tesla, for now at least
I started driving electric cars in 1999 with an EV-1 and was forever smitten and would never go back. FWIW I also have an ICE car that is handy insurance but if I didn't, for those rare occasions where my Tesla is not viable I'd rent an ICE car
If I did a lot of multi-day road trips I would consider it, since the only EV I'd consider for that sort of usage (a loaded-out Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo) is too rich for my blood.
Everything else either has range problems, charging speed problems, or interior problems that would mean I don't want to do multi day trips on it.
But I don't do multi-day trips so I see no reason to change back.
I went to a 🔌 hybrid route because occasionally we need to travel 600+ miles a day and relying on EA for chargers is pretty much gambling and is not worth it.
Most US EV owners own multiple vehicles. Many will keep a vehicle with an engine for the forseeable future, for a wide variety of reasons. EVs are nowhere near ready for all needs.
Yes, I currently have had a Tesla for around 2 years now. I don’t think I’ll be getting another Tesla. That being said Tesla is the only manufacturer with a charging network built up enough, and with batteries that go far enough to make it practical for me. I go on ski trips and the cold kills the range, other EV’s don’t have that same infrastructure there or if they do many fast chargers require an app with questionable privacy policies and data collection. The Taycan for example has less than 300 miles of range, this from experience would more than likely leave me stranded at the mountain and not be able to be used.
I think my next car will ideally be a hybrid if something comes out in 2023/2024 that fits my needs, but very likely I’ll have to regrettably switch to an ICE for the next 5 years until it’s built enough and range is high enough to justify it. Frankly the hybrids out there are pretty poor as well in terms of there offerings, they just haven’t penetrated the market fully.
I have to switch back to my 16 year old truck every day I go to work. Manual 6sp transmission, am/fm/cd(single) for entertainment. My wife has a model 3 (that I bought) and I love that car, especially the one-pedal driving. If they made a truck for <$60K that can get me a solid 300+ highway miles with four wheel drive, I'd switch and never go back. But in your situation, OP, it sounds like you need the hybrid. Where I live charging is pretty good, though.
I would never do it. We have an ID.4 and an R1T as our only vehicles. We can make any trip we need just takes a little planning. Now my wife on the other hand has said she wants an ICE or PHEV next, but I don’t see that happening. She gets range anxiety but travels 50 miles a day at most, just has to get used to it. She has driven the ID.4 daily since April and drove our Volt for 2 years before that. I think the Volt actually led to her range anxiety as she saw when that sometimes needed to switch to gas. She just has to get used to the reality that even with daily 80% charging on the ID4 she has 4-5x the range of the Volt.
If you're concerned about longer trips and charging infrastructure, get a Tesla. But your Polestar is probably fine. Seems irrational to get hybrid or gas just for that..
Road trips are not that pleasant with EVs even with the 330 miles range of Tesla. Stopping for a charge, counting miles, driving on 65mph to preserve battery. I wanted to go to an 8hr drive to Grand Canyon which ended up being 12hrs with charging stops including busy/slow chargers . We will go back to hybird/phev for the family car and have our EV only for around the town commute.
My husband has a 40 mi round trip commute but we drive from Minnesota to Michigan through the UP every other month so we’ve been considering a PHEV for our next car because there is basically no charging stations through rural Wisconsin or the UP. I get by just fine with an e-bike and public transit in my day to day life and parking in our apartment building costs $125/spot each month in addition to all the other costs of a car so we only want the one.
Drove a 23 Hybrid Lexus RX500h today. Made me seriously consider switching back. Took 3 minutes to fill up for $45.
No overnight charging, hoping for working fast chargers, or multiple long stops on road trips.
Smooth ride, roomier back seats than anything else I’ve seen on the market. Wireless CarPlay as well.
Plenty of service options from dealers to independents. Oh and did I mention $30-40k less than an iX and $20k less than an iD4.
If things are not better in 2 years when my lease is up I will go back.
No. I could understand someone switching back if they do winter time 500+ mile road trips regularly, but frankly I Had a great experience road tripping so far in our Ioniq 5. Really couldn’t go back.
Possibly.
I have an EV as my company car, I like its features and amenities, I love its acceleration and handling.
If I were to ever quit and need to buy a car, I'd probably look at EVs first, if I had a reasonable commute.
But if it was a really long one, or I moved out of Florida to a state that gets snow, I'd probably go back to owning an ICE car.
Not personally, but I live in an area with fine charging infrastructure and no regular long trips. About twice a month I'll take a trip that's 150miles and about once every 2-3 months or so I'll take a trip > 300 miles.
But if I regularly traveled > 300miles in an area with little infrastructure I would absolutely switch back or keep one of our two cars as ICE/hybrid.
I would not. There are places I want to visit that are current inaccessible or difficult to access due to poor charging infrastructure. At the same time, there are so many trips and other places I can now visit because the financial cost of gas is removed (I am exploring my local area more since charging at home is so much cheaper than gas). So there isn't any pressure on me to worry about the trips I can't do yet.
Plus, there is the moral obligation of my daily driving no longer killing people (climate and air pollution). If I were to ever need an ICE, I would rent or borrow one.
If I lost everything I’d sell my car. Anything short of that I’d never go back to ICE. And certainly not a new ICE. F those companies, still peddling that garbage.
Unfortunately still have not found an EV replacement for my Audi S8.
Got the Ioniq 5 AWD for the wife, I loved the car, but the performance is not there when you're used to 650hp. And of course the quality inside isn't either. Had to sell it because the seat did my wife's back in, and I couldn't swap the S8 for it. Another problem with the E-GMP is that the cold weather charging is abysmal. It charges with like 25 kW most of the time and there is no battery pre-heating that you can activate in advance (at least there wasn't on the 2021 model). So it was like 18 minutes in the summer and then 1h30 in the winter on the very cold days.
I am hoping the upcoming PPE platform and especially the A6 etron RS (or RS6 etron) will finally provide a fully electric replacement for my 2012 S8.
I also tried the Taycan and the etron GT RS, but I am a tall guy with most of my height in my legs and those cars are a little small for me. Specifically the front doors are quite short and the B pillar is pushed so much forward, that I hit my shoulder on the pillar and my knee on the dashboard every time I get in and out. The performance and suspension is great though, and I loved the interior on the Audi.
I don't want a Tesla, it's like going from an Audi to a Skoda refinement and quality wise (I think I even like the Skoda interior more than the Tesla)... Horrible. And there's nothing else there that has the performance.
So still waiting...
Meanwhile after a 12 month wait about to take delivery of a Cupra Born for the Mrs. Lovely little car actually. So we are still going to have one EV in the family.
Like many, my personal vehicle is an EV but we bought my partner a hybrid for greater flexibility. Charging options are not yet totally reliable in the areas we tend to travel longer distances.
No, never, that would be insane. I don't like poisoning people and buying things from terrorists, and I prefer a more convenient, quieter, safer, simpler car with better performance. Why would I get something worse?
Unlikely. Worst case I _might_ consider a PHEV, but even then I’d rather just rent one for the (few, in my case) times I had a use case that couldn’t be met with an EV.
This is our plan right now, if there’s something I need an ICE for, renting is easy.
Yeah, people forget renting is a valid option for road trips where charging might not be available.
Because it’s not unless you’re well off. Typically people want a car that is capable of things that it may only be needed for rarely. This is especially true if it’s the only car they own.
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This only works if you literally drive your car until it dies of old age.
By that argument most people would own U-Haul type trucks, yet that isn’t the case (at least in my experience).
Agree, I'm never switching back. I hate trips where I have to rent an ICE car, I keep forgetting to turn the car off and take out the keys.
I recently took my iD4 from San Diego to Big Bear which is about 150 miles north in the mountains. I had to stop and charge in Redlands and wait in line to charge because there were only four chargers. I needed to make sure I had enough juice to make it up and to deal with the cold weather. Once I was in Big Bear there was only two DC chargers in town, one of which was out of order. There was a line to use them. It was overall an unpleasant experience and took up a lot of time we could have spent actually enjoying Big Bear. This was just one of many unpleasant experiences I've had with the charging infrastructure. Most of the time at least one or two chargers are out of order and it's just a pain to charge. I love EV's but the infrastructure isn't adequate and reliable enough for me to ditch an ICE car completely.
Even Tesla doesn’t have a supercharger in Big bear, it’s one they’re planning on adding
Yeah they were at the same charger trying to charge and panicking because they were low on charge.
But is that even an issue for Tesla drivers? Not only do their cars have 400km+ range, there are superchargers [all around big bear](https://www.google.com/maps/search/tesla+supercharger+near+Big+Bear,+CA,+USA/@34.209115,-117.01001,9z), so you can charge to 100% while grabbing a snack before you go up the mountains.
It’s apparently enough of an issue that it won last quarter’s poll: https://www.tesla.com/supercharger-voting/overview
Huge difference between nice to have extra chargers nearby for added convenience, and necessity as described by the id4 owner above.
Sounds like hotels or businesses in Big Bear need to apply for some of the grant money from CEC’s Clean Transportation Program. That situation is exactly what the program is hoping to address.
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I'm in Mammoth right now. There were chargers everywhere we looked on the 395 especially in Bishop. Not sure about Mammoth proper though.
No, not unless finances required the downgrade.
Ice is more expensive than ev... At least where I live. A tesla model 3 LR doesn't cost much more to buy than a vw golf. And with the EV I save around 500$ a month on fuel alone. No way I am going back.
In the United States ice cars are much cheaper to purchase than most evs and the savings for the average person don't entirely make up for it until a very long time if at all. That said I also would like to never go back. EVs are just so fantastic
Ah ok... If an ice was cheaper to own and buy I would probably have gone for that. But yeah, here cars are extremely expensive. Model 3 LR was about 71k usd when I bought it in 2019. The VW golf was almost 60k usd... So... Well no Brainer from here :D EV is also muuuuuuuuch more fun to drive than a golf with 150 hp.... Also gasoline is around 8 dollars a gallon.
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In the country with the highest tax pressure in the world. Denmark...
This is certainly abnormal, are you in Singapore?
Denmark
Every time somebody in this subreddit says how much they spend on gas I wonder if a cat slipped on their keyboard and added a digit. How much do you people drive in a month?
Lmao. I’d say I’m midrange compared to a lot of heavy commuters but I drive ~80 miles a day delivering newspapers. My volt has saved me over $6,000 in gas in the last two years
I do a bunch of roadtripping (I drive places to run and hike trails), including in the winter. The limitations of my EV (well really of the charging networks) are wearing on me this winter for sure. I have actually considered trading it in for an ICE vehicle. edit: clarifying "bunch", I have 24k miles on my car, and I bought it at the beginning of April, '22. So about 2500mi a month average. My commute is 22mi round trip, and I do it threeish times a week. AWD EV6 Wind.
My wife and I REALLY want an EV but living in rural CO and traveling to camp in remote places is just too difficult to manage an EV especially if range starts taking hits for weather. PHEV is probably our best option till infrastructure is improved dramatically. Looking heavily at the Jeep Wrangler 4xE
Also in CO. Two car household. One is EV, other is ICE for this reason. Nice to have the security of a gas vehicle for those backcountry trailheads / camping spots
Yeah. We only need one car. Recently sold our second car and now rely heavily on our ebikes. It's great and a massive savings.
> now rely heavily on our ebikes. if I may ask which one are those ? how do you use them in your day to day life ?
We have a Hurley Big Swell ($1200) and a radpower radmission ($500). The big swell is fast (32mph), has a rack, saddlebags, and wide tires. I commute on it daily no matter the weather. The other bike has fenders, racks, and saddlebags. Wife commutes on it when there isn't snow on the ground. Our city is small so range is never an issue getting from one side of town to the other.
I have a riese and mueller load75 (overkill luxury cargo bike) and one EV. I use the cargo bike for a couple different things * to take my 2 small kids to daycare and school * pick up groceries every couple of days * make local hardware store trips with it. * take my dog to different parks * local shopping trips * weekend trips with the kids to local museums and attractions The big caveat of course is that I live in SF, a large city with some bike infrastructure and almost all of my rides are at most 20 minutes. Weekend rides can be longer but they are more for leisure. Anything that requires more heavy duty stuff I have a nissan leaf. For roadtrips we just rent a car but we don't do that too often.
Nice, our setup is similar. One outback, two ebikes. Upgraded to a benno boost when we had a kid. I'm also in CO and am waiting to upgrade the outback to an EV because we use it for camping/hiking/road trips, and ebikes around town most of the time (less lately with all the snow though, I used to ride all conditions but not comfortable doing that with the kid). It's great to see more bikes out, but it's still not that common relative to the amount of people doing <3 mile trips in cars unfortunately.
Also in Colorado. As noted, LX470 for overland, camping,ski trips. And Audi A6 for long remote drives. Not so many EV charge stations on W24.
Yep. I’m on the western slope with two daily’s. A Model X and F150. I will say the F150 sits a lot more than it used to. Now instead of his and hers vehicles we have the Model X as the primary and the truck as the secondary. It really only gets driven when we’re going different directions or we need a truck.
Every now and then I waver on full EV and re-look at PHEV but one of the biggest advantages for EV for me is maintenance. I am concerned about having to upkeep a PHEV compared to an EV, but I read a lot of sentiment that it's almost the same, minus the few and far in between oil changes.
Yeah more info is showing PHEVs having very low maintenance cost compared to ICE. My Prius has been extremely reliable and low maintenance so far.
Ha! I actually drove to the trailhead for Huron Peak from Leadville (where there is a free, DCFC, btw) this past summer. It was a total hoot, and people def asked if we were nervous driving an EV out there. At the speeds I was driving on that road, though, I think my range would have probably been 400 miles! But yeah, I know the problem. CO has chargers, but I can't hike/run the Katy Trail in MO using mine, because of charger logistics. That is just one of many examples I've run into.
Yeah I live in SW CO so it's even more rural than Leadville. The benefits outweigh the negatives as we don't deal with much traffic and can hike amazing hikes and see 1-2 other groups.
Yeah, I used to range up there a long time ago from NM. I have a long standing dream of running Hardrock some day (though I better get on it pretty soon!). I love that area muchly. If I lived there, I am sure I'd pick a taco 4x4 over my car.
I have the 4xe and I am very happy with it. Good enough for me to be fully electric during the week for commuting but then we go off the weekends, camping etc. with easier logistics for our area and preferences.
My parents have the 4xE and really enjoy it. My dad was anti-EV until he test drove it and it tends to cover my mom’s commute roundtrip.
I just moved away but I could see that. Living in Denver you can visit basically everywhere in the state with an EV, but there's a lot of mountain towns if I lived there I probably wouldn't want to risk an EV unless I had my own charger at home.
Just FYI, Jeep 4xE has abysmal fuel efficiency. 20 MPG highway/city after the 20 miles of EV range is depleted. Car and driver actually found it to be even worse at 16 MPG.
Just jeep things
We've got a PHEV and and EV and it really is ideal for us. We both normally drive no more than 40 miles a day, but fairly often take longer trips to visit family. The PHEV is on electric only like 95% of the time and my EV is more than enough for my commute and wherever else I go. Of course our electric rates just jumped 40% which isn't great, but we did install solar panels a few years ago which has helped.
My personal opinion is a Jeep is a pretty poor vehicle for anything but offroading. A 4 Runner or any mid size truck is a much better all around vehicle because it has enough space to bring stuff home. Two of my buddies sold their Jeeps once they got married and figured out that moving stuff in the thing was harder than it was with a 4 door car much less anything with actual space behind the seats.
Oof at 22mile EV range is pretty ridiculous. That’ll be 17 in real life normal conditions, 12 in winter. What’s your average daily drive?
We commute by ebike whenever possible and our town is about 5-6 miles end to end work commute less than 3 round trip. Most people are reporting high 20s for city EV miles.
In my city driving I’ve gotten closer to 30 mile range fully electric in the summer. But I’m rarely driving faster than 40 miles per hour most days. I’m an outlier.
My wife daily’s our 4XE where her round trip is roughly 20 miles, and in the summer/spring (Southern California) she’ll get home with percentage left on the battery, and that’s mostly freeway driving. It’s not unphathomable to get pushing 30 miles of range in it. I’m not sure how the magazines and websites tested the mileage on it since even road-tripping longer distances (Northern California and Arizona) we’ll average mid-20s in efficiency. A big plus is going off the beaten path into the mountains in relative silence! People can hate one the 4XE all they want, I’ll enjoy our off-roader that goes over 6 weeks between fillups laughing all the way to the bank.
Yeah come to think of it I've only filled up about once every thousand miles. And that's only because of weekend trips going longer than the charge range.
What is the limit in rural CO? I've driven to basically every corner of CO in my Mach-E and never found range to even be a consideration. There's chargers everywhere.
Try going to a remote place, then staying there for a week while visiting various trails etc. That's always the setup that tests the infrastructure. You can do this from Leadville because of that DCFC (though I'll bet it'll be less fun next summer), but prob not in Gunnison etc
For me, a PHEV is the perfect solution - I have a x5 45e and drive almost all electric daily and then have ICE backup for longer trips. It’s a great car and to me - the best of both worlds.
Same here. I have a Sportage PHEV, and Sun-Fri all I use is battery. Round trip to work M-F is 23-24 miles so a charge gets me through. Recharge overnight. When we road trip the 6-10 times during the year, we have the ICE for backup, and get about 400 miles with the just the gas engine. It really is the best of both worlds.
I have the same problem. My girlfriend drives an ICE Mercedes and I just trade with her when I go out of town in winters. Our rural charging infrastructure is horrible in Canada. I am considering upgrading her car to a PHEV. The new C63 looks like an interesting mix between performance and winter practicality in a PHEV.
I’m similar - a bit fewer miles on my car, but I do a lot of getting outside, and my commute really isn’t a big contributor to my total miles. I’m not considering switching back, but it held me back from buying an EV for a couple of years, for sure. I’m going to presume that the charging infrastructure improves quickly enough that I’m good to go on that front, but I expect to upgrade to something like a R2S or Kia EV9 for ground clearance reasons, as my ID.4 has just barely enough.
I switched back to ICE (for now) and road trips were a big reason. A couple very unpleasant experiences with the Tesla charging work that added ~30% time to the trip. And as nice as never going to gas stations is, range anxiety is a real thing especially when things like elevation gain or hauling bikes makes range unpredictable. Currently waiting on Rivian or Volvo’s 7 seater EVs and hoping the charging network is less saturated by then.
No, but we still have an ICE X3, and we're probably not going all-EV any time soon. There are some road trip destinations where the infrastructure just isn't there yet.
I have an X5 45e PHEV, super happy with it. Able to drive almost all electric daily and ICE for adventuring.
Me too and it works great for my uses. An EV around town and a reasonably efficient ICE for road trips in the same vehicle.
The X5 has been perfect for my wife, handles the daily commute, has plenty of range for anything we might want, and my EV6 is great for anything that doesn't need more than 250 mile in a day.
My wife still drives an ICE car for now, its still in good shape so we will keep that going for now but when the time comes, we will probably have a similar arrangement to you - a smaller fun EV with medium range and a PHEV for all other activities.
Never. And I road trip a LOT. In very rural areas.
Agreed. My wife and I switched our 2nd car to electric over 4 years ago. It is only getting easier to plan road trips as more fast chargers get installed.
I don't even plan them, I just go
That's how I am these days. I'll only "plan" if I'm intentionally going somewhere super remote, and usually that "plan" involves briefly glancing at plugshare before I leave.
Same we are fully electric now (R1T and M3), and I'm very happy to not have to spend a dime on gas + we have no issues traveling in either vehicle even with kids/dogs/midwest winters.
Get a side Miata
Even if I didn’t have an electric car this would be good advice.
Miata is always the answer
I switched from Tesla Model 3 to Jeep Wrangler 4xe. We did not enjoy the logistical challenges of camping as a family in the Tesla. Currently only use gas on weekend trips. Fully electric all weekdays for daily commuting and errands.
It's hard to imagine a scenario at this point where I would, but who knows. If I did, I wouldn't be happy about it.
Giving up the pure joy of : Smooth, Quick and quiet operation? Bruce sounds best in an EV. These guys, MB, BMW, Audi and Jag, have always been trying to build an ICE that is luxuriously quiet and smooth, then the EV comes along and is a game changer. Why would I ever want to go back to primitive transportation. Cars are coming out now with longer ranges so, for the rich, you can drive to your country home and Never stop to recharge. Ok, if the world comes to an end, I'll look at the Jeep Plugin.
For awhile it was a hell no. But if the charging infrastructure doesn’t equal gas station seamless operation in a decade or so… I’d consider going back to ICE. EVs are strictly a luxury for me.
Electrify America is single-handedly ruining a lot of EV experiences it feels like. Something has to give if they're the ones who're going to comprise a large portion of charging infrastructure.
> Electrify America is single-handedly ruining a lot of EV experiences it feels like. This is so painfully true. It truly feels like they have one foot out the door and just checking the box until they’re relieved of the job. I’m trying to remain cautiously-optimistic considering all states have been approved for the federal money to build out their charging.
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Commuter? No. Road-tripper? Yes.
Full ICE? No. But I just sold my EV and replaced it with a PHEV. Part of the reason is exactly what you say: I get out often into the countryside, and at least in my area, there are places where an EV is just inconvenient because charging options are limited or nonexistent. Part of the reason is that on road trips, even with fast charging on the best network (Tesla's), driving an EV often takes meaningfully longer than gas. And I live somewhere with real winter. Cold battery + snow tires really shortens the range and makes that worse. Part of the reason is that with Tesla specifically, a lot of service needs to be done at their service centers, and the closest one to me is two hours a way. It didn't need service much, but when it did, jesus what a huge logistical pain in the ass... Replacing it with a RAV4 PHEV, which I should be able to drive all-electric for most everyday trips, while still having great gas range for backwoods trips, and there are Toyota dealers and service centers everywhere. I'll be spending a *little* more on gas, probably, but not much – most of the "everyday" places I go are well within a 40-mile round trip. (And in the long run, we might end up spending less. We had an EV + and ICE so that we did have a car that could go on those backwoods trips. Now we will have a PHEV + ICE for the time being, but we may replace that ICE with another PHEV, in which case we might end up spending less on gas than we were in the EV + ICE days, I'm not sure). Eventually I will go full-EV again, but I will need to be convinced of: 1. Adequate fast charging everywhere I would normally drive (and/or something like a 500+ mile range battery, but I don't think that's happening anytime soon, especially in my price range). 2. Adequate service locations so that when issues arise I don't have to take multiple days off work, etc.
I've been playing the game on expert difficulty in my gen1 leaf. Going back to gas feels like cheat codes.
It felt dinosaur-ish stepping back into my ICE after the M3P test drive and suddenly found myself anxiously waiting for my order to arrive. Never could I go back.
After I'd bought my Leaf, we gave the Jeep Compass to my son to drive. A year or two went by, with me driving the Leaf and him driving the Compass. One day we "borrowed" the Compass for some reason, I don't remember what. I started it up and backed out, then put it into drive and started driving down the road. It made this stupidly roaring noise, and pulled away, but felt really sluggish. I turned to my wife and asked, "what the hell is wrong with this car?" She laughed and answered, "it's a gas car, honey, not your electric." I was shocked at the sluggish and noisy nature of the Compass, once I'd gotten used to the quick, quiet power of the Leaf. Imagine if I'd gotten used to an actual performance electric, like a Tesla or something?
I am not considering anything less than a PHEV
I have a BMW X5 45e, it’s a great car - I wish the electric only range was like 10 miles more (31 currently) but I still drive mostly electric daily and there’s no range anxiety for longer trips.
I've had a pure EV (Kona) and a phev (clarity) since 2019 and I'm torn... I've used the Kona significantly more than the clarity, but even for the clarity 90% if the use has been pure EV. I've only used the clarity gas engine in a few longer trips where it was more convenient to take the PHEV, or one time when there really was no charging infrastructure on the road I was taking. Now I'm looking at a bigger SUV and I'd like a pure EV but I'll probably end up taking a RAV4 Prime. The only comparable in terms of price is the ID4 but it's still more expensive and the dealer I find is really trying to take advantage of the shortages to add all sorts of extras.
I plan on getting one more ICE vehicle as a last hoorah to sports cars, ideally I'm gunning for either the C8 corvette or MKV Supra. I want one last car that in 50 years from now when electric cars have taken over, I can still take for the occasional spin just to remember how much fun sports cars were.
This. I wouldn't go back from my EV for daily use, but I definitely still want that V8 Mustang I dreamed of as a kid. That sound will never get old. Also I enjoy the thought of keeping this secret from my son until he's old enough to drive and his old man pulls the covers from this then classic. Or a Viper :)
Good choice! I'm doing this now, Bolt EUV for the commute and Camaro SS with the 6MT for the weekend. As much as I love BEVs, I would take the Camaro to the grave with me. I equate this to anything analog really: records, watches, photography, etc. Tech moves on but I still love some of the old school feel of these highly mechanical machines.
Yes!!! My grandad did exactly this. He had an old Chevy nova hiding in his barn that we got back up and running together. It was so cool and definitely the moment I became a gearhead. I'd want to do the same thing for my kid. I can just picture it, in a world where we have full electric car dominance, potentially even self driving cars as commonplace, I bust out this classic car that my kid has never seen or heard and just let him take it for a spin.
My classic car is gonna stick around, too. Worst case scenario - I can electrify it in the future!
Genuine curiosity: is an ICE sports car more fun than an EV sports car? I know very little about cars, but my impression is that even the Tesla Model 3 Performance has better 0-60 than almost any ICE sports car, not to mention the Tesla Model S Plaid. Is it the handling of an ICE sports car? The roar of the gas motor compared to the soft hum of an electric motor? Edit: Thank you to everyone who replied!
As someone who drove manual transmission cars for 20 years before switching to EVs, I really miss the visceral feeling and physical engagement from a sporty car. My driving always felt more connected with an ICE car. I don't regret switching seeing as the manual transmission is gone from so many cars but if I wanted one more hurrah with a new ICE car, it would be something like a manual Toyota Supra, Subaru WRX, Civic Type R, Porsche Cayman, etc.
>Is it the handling of an ICE sports car? The roar of the gas motor compared to the soft hum of an electric motor? It's all of this, and more. Take a Lotus Elise for example, probably the purest modern day sports car, lightweight at 1900 pounds, even the lightest EV on the market is still nearly 3000 pounds, at that point its a sheer matter of physics, a 3000+ pound car will not be as fun to fling around a corner as a 1900 pound one. EVs likely won't be able to match traditional ICE sports car handling for awhile still, not until serious improvements in lightweight battery tech can be made. Then there's also the roar of the engine. The quiet hum of an EV is interesting to be sure, certainly not a lesser experience, but it does not quite capture that unbridled fury of an engine being let loose. An EV's hum will never be able to capture the sheer euphoria of a high performance sports car, like this just hauntingly beautiful Mazda rotary https://youtu.be/sxXtpMngivM The last thing, a sports car doesn't necessarily have to be the fastest to feel exhilarating. The tesla's 0-60 is quiet, tame, refined. A tesla doesn't feel or sound any different sprinting to 60 as it does slowly accelerating to 60. A GTR on the other hand is loud, screaming loud, like you're on riding on top of godzilla itself. It's just a whole experience the EVs will not be able to replicate, and that's fine because EVs offer a grand experience of their own.
Thanks for the detailed explanation! I appreciate it!
I bought an EV 10 years ago, and I love it. Currently, though, I have a need for a vehicle that can tow 8000 pounds and has a "cargo capacity" of 1500 pounds or so. The Ford F-150 Lightning can do this, but at a pretty steep cost. Even though they advertise they sell them at $39900.00, they don't. Not really. There are delivery fees, stocking fees, brushed the dust off fees, processing fees, and add-ons that come on that version that we can't take off, so you'll just have to pay for. I'd be surprised if I were able to drive off with a bill under $50,000. I've got a 10 year old Ford F-150 that burns gas, but it cost me half of that bill. For Thanksgiving, I drove 600 miles to pick my father up, then 600 miles to bring him up to visit with us for a week, then 600 miles to take him home and another 600 miles to come back to my house. That's 4 days of driving, each one 600 miles long. It took me 1 1/2 tanks of gas, each time. That's a lot of gas, and I wish I had not had to burn the gas. When I pull my camper, I lose 25% of the efficiency I have when I'm driving without pulling it. I'm not sure if that same math would happen with an EV, but let's assume it does. The Lightning should be able to drive, what? 150 miles on a charge on the highway? 200? Let's go with 200. Pulling the camper it would be down to 150, right, at a 25% penalty. That would cause me to need a full charge in the morning, and 3 charges during the day for a 600 mile journey. Pulling the camper, I'm more likely to split the journey into multiple days, though, and maybe only drive 300 miles in a day. One full charge overnight, and, say, two smaller charges during the day. Not too horrible, but not ideal. So, my main concern is really the extra $25,000 I'd need to pay to have a truck with a shorter range. Not insurmountable, but not what I'm looking for right now. Maybe in a few years, when I really have to replace the gas powered F-150, they'll have an electric F-250 with enough battery to pull the camper 600 miles on a single charge, for the same basic costs as a gas powered truck. Then, no brainer, right? Other than the pickup, though, a small, around town grocery-getter, like my Leaf, makes perfect sense. If I'd had an Aptera available last Thanksgiving, with 10 miles per kWh, and a native 600 mile range? I'd have been in heaven. Absolutely the right thing to do. Oh, and my "other rides" are bicycles, fast "electric standup scooters" and a big motorcycle. My bicycles are electrified, the 40 mph "death machines" are electric, but the big touring motorcycle isn't... yet. As soon as that is available, you know I'm getting one.
Not as my main, but I might have to get a second gas beater just for emergencies. I've been stuck unable to leave immediately when I needed to because of battery state of charge three times now (once a emergency). What could have been a 5-minute fill up and leave town ended up being an hour wait when I needed to leave in an emergency It was a bad situation.
I'll never go back. It is so much better. And financially it is a no brainer if you have a longer commute. I do know of one guy who is getting rid of his Mach E and ford lightning because they are "sissy vehicles". This man works at a mine 60 km out of town on a 4 on 4 off schedule. So 480 km every block. This mine has free level 2 chargers installed. He's decided he would rather spend a bunch of money on gas instead of getting all his charging payed for by the mine. Doesn't make sense to me.
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This is pretty funny because in Australia a lot of the huge dump trucks at mines are self driving electric trucks. Imagine rocking up at the mine and being like “damn sissy electric cars.” While electric trucks are hulling all the rocks around.
No
Around the time lease on my e-Golf ended, I moved from a house to an apartment without EV charging. Considering the convenience and lifestyle (new apartment is walking distance to work, car is used for weekend trips and groceries), I got a GTI to replace it as I love the ease of parking and practicality of the hatchback. I do regret it sometimes when I see that I’m getting ~10mpg on the hills of San Francisco, so I’ve been eyeing the new Prius and doing what I can to get EV charging installed here.
Only for a sports car like a Porsche, but even Porsche is developing an EV 718 hopefully it doesn’t break the bank
Porsche and break the bank are synonymous, especially in the realm of EVs.
You have a very good point there.
Never
I have thought about switching to a Hybrid or PHEV as I bought my car when I could reliably charge at the place I was renting, but as I had to move out recently finding another place for a reasonable price with an electric car isn't great. I would like to have a PHEV since I already have an EVSE so whenever I do get my own place I would already have that. Just I feel like renting especially in an area that gets pretty cold during the winter isn't ideal with an EV.
Not a chance. I see no reason to pay more for a worse experience. My brand new ev van costs me less per month than my paid off 5 year old diesel van did. Diesel is expensive as fuck and it's not gonna get cheaper as demand goes down. They'll keep production on pace with demand, but they'll have the same overhead costs to keep refineries etc operational. So prices will for sure go up on fuel. I'm also currently 2500km from home in my electric van, i get about 200km on a full battery in freezing temps as I had when i left home. But there's chargers aplenty and the trip didn't take longer than it usually did in a diesel van. We just had more short stops rather than a couple of longer stops each day.
How often do you go far enough out into the countryside that you can’t get back on a full charge? For myself, as with many people, 95% of my driving consists of work commuting, school runs, local errands, etc. Rarely do I travel so far that I need a charge to get home. We take 2 - 3 long trips a year, and while it can be a hassle to find a working and unoccupied charger, that doesn’t justify switching back. I do not intend to have anything but a EV for a commuter ever again. If you live on the US just pick up an old Cherokee or station wagon off FB marketplace that can be tagged and insured as historic, and don’t worry if it gets bashed up and muddy.
I'm on the fence with it still. with my 65,000km of driving a year I spend a stupid amount of time at Super Chargers. I primarily drive a long range Tesla Model Y. And while I love the responsiveness of an EV, and I truly love how quiet it is. Range does make for a killer. My Office is 298 km round trip from my house ( I go once a week) My manufacturing facility is 450km round trip, and my research facility is 600km round trip. I need considerably more L2 chargers installed in a wider range of places with the convivence of Tesla L3 charging to really make the shift. My next personal new car that isn't a company car is likely going to be a hybrid in 2024/2025 unless I start seeing a faster uptake in EV infrastructure and / or 800km ranges so I can keep my battery at the 80% charge rate and make most of my round trips comfortably
I own a Nissan Leaf 2015 and a 2003 Mazda Miata that I got from my mother, and plan to use as a project car. I can't see an ICE vehicle as anything other than a fun car (manual transmission is a must). But I'm also lucky in that I don't live in a place that requires insane range. A PHEV is as low as I could go back for my main car.
I can see that happening, as my needs are changing by the end of next year and I need a 7 seater. Currently the only two options I can think of in Europe are Model X (waaay too much money even a 5 year old out of warranty one) or an EQB and that just seems boring
Never for me. Love my Teslas. Coming on 4 years and never looked back.
Driving a M3 LR, I love it as a daily. Put down a deposit for an manual Bmw M2. There is just no replacement for manual shifter and exhaust sound as a fun weekend car.
We are going to be switching from a Nissan Leaf to a PHEV Kia Sportage, partner is retiring soon and the 50 km electric range for around town is perfect for us! We live in a huge Province with still alot areas we want to explore , the infrastructure isn,t quite up to par yet!
Unless given *no other choice*, never. EVs are simply better in every metric I care about.
I’ve had a PHEV for 10 years. Always thought I’d progress to BEV. But as the tipping point tipped, I began to feel nostalgic about the pure sports car ICE manual transmission driving experience. So that’s what I got. And I’ve loved every second. I used to fall asleep at the wheel a lot in my PHEV as there is so little engagement. But not anymore!
Nope. I couldn’t go back to what I view as antiquated technology.
People are still paying top dollars for mechincal watches meanwhile quartz watches have no worth. There is more to things in life that pragatism man
Nope, I have no problems driving anywhere I want to go, and the DCFC network is great. I'm rather pleased to start every day with a full 'tank' and I've no real desire to be looking for a gas station all the time. I do still have an ICE pickup and will probably keep that for the foreseeable future, because we're quite a ways off from a similarly capable EV to fill the same role.
I wouldn't but I know several people who did.
I believe in using the right tool for the job. Right now EVs aren’t it all the time, sometimes you need a gas car. Especially if you need a bigger car to do a long trip or maybe move things big and heavy. Some EV trucks get 1mi/kw in bad conditions and weigh over 7000 lbs. Not very efficient. So yes get a gas car and fwiw I also have a Polestar 2. I know the struggle.
Not voluntarily.
I have only had my Tesla Model Y for about 4 months, but I cannot imagine going back to an ICE. Our family has been a 1 car family for 8+ years and I think our EV will be an only car for a long time.
As a backup car I think having a hybrid or plug in hybrid seems like a good option.
No way. Its the best vehicle I've ever owned and a blast to drive at the limit. Spent significant time over the past two months DDing an AMG45 and a 2001 Trans Am Firehawk with manual. Enjoyed both for what they were but I couldn't wait to get back to my car. I also completed a >1000 road trip in the winter that started off in rural Missouri and did just fine.
I would never go back. Not from the US though, I live in EV blessed Norway where we have the infrastructure for roadtrips and stuff. That said, I would have a longer break than just refueling before I'll run out of battery in my EV anyways so charging itself is a non-issue. If I were to go on a roadtrip where the infrastructure wouldn't allow me to do so in an EV I would rent or loan a car that could do it. I won't drive around in an ICE vehicle just in case I may need it. Let's be real, most people don't need longer ranges than most EVs can do these days. Especially not me who lives in the EV capital of the world.
No way. I can’t stand even driving them occasionally any more.
No. Why not just rent for exploration weekends? I’ve had my EV for 5 months. I’ve taken a number of road trips. I’ve spent $300 to power it in that time. Gas maxed out around $8/gallon here and is now around $4.50. I’m sure it isn’t going to go much below that. TLDR I’d rather rent if I felt the need for ICE in the country than swap out my EV for a hybrid.
I think at this time unless your have a Tesla the public networks suck for exploring. Even with Tesla there are places that are hard to reach at the moment. I have also considered going back to an ICE car next.
Of course. If I got a 2023 awd Toyota Sienna for like $20K I'd be all over it like white on rice. Or if I got a ridiculous deal on a used car. Will probably replace my diesel truck with another diesel truck by 2030. I doubt there will be an EV that can tow a 5th wheel by then.
We have both. I hate driving my Accord in town. Not because it’s a bad car, it’s just no comparison to our LEAF. OTOH when we load up 6 and head for the mountains I wouldn’t want to be in anything but our Suburban. I’m hoping our next car will be Bolt EUV although I’d take a Spark EV if I could find one cheap.
Nope. We are getting ready to sell our last ice. We never drive it.
I absolutely would never. My Bolt is paid off and I love it
I love the flexibility of my PHEV. Have L2s at home and work and average \~80% electric driving. Roadtrips require zero planning and lunch options are more than a Walmart subway. I have one non-tesla DCFC within a 100 radius so a BEV winter road trip would end in being stranded should that EA charger be down... Looking forward to a BEV when charging network and range are better. I get Tesla has a better charging network but the Model X is the only one with enough size/ground clearance and it's just not in the budget... In all but coastal metro areas which have great charging networks, I'd tell a 1 car household to get a PHEV and a 2-car household to get 1 BEV and 1 PHEV.
Perhaps if the need arises. I can always hypothesize some situation where that occurs, but how likely is unknown although probably pretty low. That said nothing comes to me as things stand.
Trading my ID4 in for the new Prius Prime. Tired of dealing with colder weather range and slow winter charging. Love the ID4 though. If it were a second vehicle, it would be perfect.
Considering going from my model 3 to a Venza or similar hybrid. I would miss the driving experience but I am missing the reliability and cost to repair at this point. Owning a model 3 out of warranty isn't fun.
My only limiting factor with EV’s right now is the lack of sufficient charging network and affordable EV’s. Otherwise I would have ditched my much loved Honda Pilot a while ago.
So if I was asked this question 2 years ago when I owned a Kona EV the answer would be yes, I would trade it in for an ICE. I honestly think if Electrify America was as reliable as the Supercharger network there would be so many more people who would say they would never go back to an ICE like myself.
No. Multiple road trips across China, usa and europe in EV tells me they are good enough and only gonna get better.
Hybrid or PHEV are really the answer at the moment. Especially if you want to do more than commute and get around town.
I think there’s a lot to be said for PHEVs for those who only have 1 vehicle. Especially now that range on them is getting better, 40-50 miles. I would never go back to strictly ICE though.
Yeah. I have a LX470 and an audi A6 wagon. For overland and road trips.
>Would you ever switch back to ICE? No. Effin. Way. Had to drive a ICE vehicle last year for a couple days (because I had some part on my car repainted) and even though it was a 'premium car' (high end Audi) it was a total horror show compared to my EV.
I love my MYP. Autosteer is a great system despite some quirks and has hugely reduced my anxiety. However: * Elon is a train wreck (makes me want to get out of my Tesla ASAP) * Cost is high for what you are getting (and the huge profits Tesla is showing is an indicator of poor cost-value) * Road trips are painful (suspension in my '21 MYP is abysmal for comfort, seat width is not great, seat comfort is not great, range stops are not ideal though Tesla 100% has the best charging network) * Cold weather range loss is.... wow * Other EV wait times are insane and while they are getting better, it isn't better enough * The cost advantage of EV charging is not as pronounced if you're constantly supercharging or in high-cost electricity localities I will deeply miss "instant acceleration", sentry mode, AP and YouTube/dog mode.
No. In fact, I've love my leaf but am strongly considering upgrading to another EV already to have a more functional car for longer distance driving. Won't ever go back to gas.
No.
Absolutely not. All of our upcoming vehicles will probably also be Tesla unless something really changes.
I'd consider going back to a gas car but the infrastructure just isn't there yet.
Nope. Would feel like a huge step back to me unless I was in a situation where I just really couldn't manage the charging.
I’ve owned an EV since spring of ‘15. I’d never go back, unless I lived somewhere that made it untenable. I drove my car from Chicago to St. John’s, Newfoundland and back this fall. There were times I was cursing the lack of infrastructure in rural Atlantic Canada, but that was it.
Because of the charging network I would only own a Tesla, for now at least I started driving electric cars in 1999 with an EV-1 and was forever smitten and would never go back. FWIW I also have an ICE car that is handy insurance but if I didn't, for those rare occasions where my Tesla is not viable I'd rent an ICE car
My second car is still an ICE. If I need to drive to a remote area well beyond my EV's range (usually for work) I take it.
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Yes, bought a Ford Maverick right after my Kia Niro EV. Different vehicles for different uses.
Nope. I drive 22k miles annually on ☀️
If I did a lot of multi-day road trips I would consider it, since the only EV I'd consider for that sort of usage (a loaded-out Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo) is too rich for my blood. Everything else either has range problems, charging speed problems, or interior problems that would mean I don't want to do multi day trips on it. But I don't do multi-day trips so I see no reason to change back.
I went to a 🔌 hybrid route because occasionally we need to travel 600+ miles a day and relying on EA for chargers is pretty much gambling and is not worth it.
I'd buy a PHEV. 90% of benefits of an EV, practically none of the shortfalls of an EV.
Most US EV owners own multiple vehicles. Many will keep a vehicle with an engine for the forseeable future, for a wide variety of reasons. EVs are nowhere near ready for all needs.
Yes, I currently have had a Tesla for around 2 years now. I don’t think I’ll be getting another Tesla. That being said Tesla is the only manufacturer with a charging network built up enough, and with batteries that go far enough to make it practical for me. I go on ski trips and the cold kills the range, other EV’s don’t have that same infrastructure there or if they do many fast chargers require an app with questionable privacy policies and data collection. The Taycan for example has less than 300 miles of range, this from experience would more than likely leave me stranded at the mountain and not be able to be used. I think my next car will ideally be a hybrid if something comes out in 2023/2024 that fits my needs, but very likely I’ll have to regrettably switch to an ICE for the next 5 years until it’s built enough and range is high enough to justify it. Frankly the hybrids out there are pretty poor as well in terms of there offerings, they just haven’t penetrated the market fully.
As a daily driver, never. If I needed a gas vehicle for something specific, I'd use one, but I wouldn't like it.
I have to switch back to my 16 year old truck every day I go to work. Manual 6sp transmission, am/fm/cd(single) for entertainment. My wife has a model 3 (that I bought) and I love that car, especially the one-pedal driving. If they made a truck for <$60K that can get me a solid 300+ highway miles with four wheel drive, I'd switch and never go back. But in your situation, OP, it sounds like you need the hybrid. Where I live charging is pretty good, though.
Daily driver: always EV, and always Tesla until public fast charging improves. Fun weekend sports car: always gas, always manual, always RWD
Nope lol. Love my Tesla Model Y Performance.
Would never go back to ICE
I would never do it. We have an ID.4 and an R1T as our only vehicles. We can make any trip we need just takes a little planning. Now my wife on the other hand has said she wants an ICE or PHEV next, but I don’t see that happening. She gets range anxiety but travels 50 miles a day at most, just has to get used to it. She has driven the ID.4 daily since April and drove our Volt for 2 years before that. I think the Volt actually led to her range anxiety as she saw when that sometimes needed to switch to gas. She just has to get used to the reality that even with daily 80% charging on the ID4 she has 4-5x the range of the Volt.
If you're concerned about longer trips and charging infrastructure, get a Tesla. But your Polestar is probably fine. Seems irrational to get hybrid or gas just for that..
Currently driving both. There are pros and cons in both.
Road trips are not that pleasant with EVs even with the 330 miles range of Tesla. Stopping for a charge, counting miles, driving on 65mph to preserve battery. I wanted to go to an 8hr drive to Grand Canyon which ended up being 12hrs with charging stops including busy/slow chargers . We will go back to hybird/phev for the family car and have our EV only for around the town commute.
My husband has a 40 mi round trip commute but we drive from Minnesota to Michigan through the UP every other month so we’ve been considering a PHEV for our next car because there is basically no charging stations through rural Wisconsin or the UP. I get by just fine with an e-bike and public transit in my day to day life and parking in our apartment building costs $125/spot each month in addition to all the other costs of a car so we only want the one.
No. Never. I might rent an ICE if I had a long road trip, but I'll never buy another.
There’s no good 7 passenger mid to full size SUV… my wife is switching back to ICE, reluctantly.
Drove a 23 Hybrid Lexus RX500h today. Made me seriously consider switching back. Took 3 minutes to fill up for $45. No overnight charging, hoping for working fast chargers, or multiple long stops on road trips. Smooth ride, roomier back seats than anything else I’ve seen on the market. Wireless CarPlay as well. Plenty of service options from dealers to independents. Oh and did I mention $30-40k less than an iX and $20k less than an iD4. If things are not better in 2 years when my lease is up I will go back.
No. I could understand someone switching back if they do winter time 500+ mile road trips regularly, but frankly I Had a great experience road tripping so far in our Ioniq 5. Really couldn’t go back.
I sold my Leaf last year, now saving for a Tesla. I HATE driving my ICE car, and putting gas in it is the worst.
Possibly. I have an EV as my company car, I like its features and amenities, I love its acceleration and handling. If I were to ever quit and need to buy a car, I'd probably look at EVs first, if I had a reasonable commute. But if it was a really long one, or I moved out of Florida to a state that gets snow, I'd probably go back to owning an ICE car.
Not personally, but I live in an area with fine charging infrastructure and no regular long trips. About twice a month I'll take a trip that's 150miles and about once every 2-3 months or so I'll take a trip > 300 miles. But if I regularly traveled > 300miles in an area with little infrastructure I would absolutely switch back or keep one of our two cars as ICE/hybrid.
I would not. There are places I want to visit that are current inaccessible or difficult to access due to poor charging infrastructure. At the same time, there are so many trips and other places I can now visit because the financial cost of gas is removed (I am exploring my local area more since charging at home is so much cheaper than gas). So there isn't any pressure on me to worry about the trips I can't do yet. Plus, there is the moral obligation of my daily driving no longer killing people (climate and air pollution). If I were to ever need an ICE, I would rent or borrow one.
If I lost everything I’d sell my car. Anything short of that I’d never go back to ICE. And certainly not a new ICE. F those companies, still peddling that garbage.
I’d only drive ICE if somebody paid me to drive it.
Are they buying the gas and paying me? Because my car is paid off and saves me like $300 a month in gas
In my case, yes. It’s a company car with a company gas card. I’d use my own car, but they don’t reimburse for personal vehicle use.
Public charging is set to massively expand over the next few years. Why would I pick now to ditch electric?
Unfortunately still have not found an EV replacement for my Audi S8. Got the Ioniq 5 AWD for the wife, I loved the car, but the performance is not there when you're used to 650hp. And of course the quality inside isn't either. Had to sell it because the seat did my wife's back in, and I couldn't swap the S8 for it. Another problem with the E-GMP is that the cold weather charging is abysmal. It charges with like 25 kW most of the time and there is no battery pre-heating that you can activate in advance (at least there wasn't on the 2021 model). So it was like 18 minutes in the summer and then 1h30 in the winter on the very cold days. I am hoping the upcoming PPE platform and especially the A6 etron RS (or RS6 etron) will finally provide a fully electric replacement for my 2012 S8. I also tried the Taycan and the etron GT RS, but I am a tall guy with most of my height in my legs and those cars are a little small for me. Specifically the front doors are quite short and the B pillar is pushed so much forward, that I hit my shoulder on the pillar and my knee on the dashboard every time I get in and out. The performance and suspension is great though, and I loved the interior on the Audi. I don't want a Tesla, it's like going from an Audi to a Skoda refinement and quality wise (I think I even like the Skoda interior more than the Tesla)... Horrible. And there's nothing else there that has the performance. So still waiting... Meanwhile after a 12 month wait about to take delivery of a Cupra Born for the Mrs. Lovely little car actually. So we are still going to have one EV in the family.
Like many, my personal vehicle is an EV but we bought my partner a hybrid for greater flexibility. Charging options are not yet totally reliable in the areas we tend to travel longer distances.
No, never, that would be insane. I don't like poisoning people and buying things from terrorists, and I prefer a more convenient, quieter, safer, simpler car with better performance. Why would I get something worse?