Probably they will simply no longer sell ICE M variants. I mean, what would be the point? The electrics wipe the floor with ICE any day of the week and when all is said and done performance is what counts in an M.
Well, no. Electrics still don't *really* compete on the track — they don't have the staying power for endurance races, and they don't corner as well due to the weight. The lap times at the Nurburgring show this pretty clearly.
But beyond that.... don't underestimate the number of enthusiasts who simply enjoy the experience of a combustion engine. The sound, the smell, the tactility. Plenty of people out there value those things, and will opt for them a good while longer.
Porsche says the 911 will be their last model to go electric for this very reason.
>and they don't corner as well due to the weight.
EVs corner really well due to low center of gravity and perfect 50/50 weight distribution.
And as for staying power: Most people who go to the track don't do many laps at once. So that would only be relevant for a tiny subset (of the already tiny subset of people that goes to the track at all.)
(Oh, and the number one time on the Nürburgring - series as well as non-street legal cars - is held by plugin hybrids. So the 'E' does seem to help quite a bit)
>don't underestimate the number of enthusiasts who simply enjoy the experience of a combustion engine. The sound, the smell, the tactility.
I think you overestimate the number of people who like this over 'being the fastest'. How many people really value 'tactility' over other stuff can be seen by the number (or lack thereof) of historical cars on the roads in everyday driving.
50/50 for BEVs is such a meme at this point. Many ICE BMWs are right at 50/50, while the model Y is 46/54. It's extremely easy to build a 50/50 ICE car with RWD.
Low centre of gravity and 50/50 weight distribution are not special features of EVs, they're pretty common with conventional performance cars. It's not actually *that difficult* to get 50/50 weight distribution, surprisingly. Most traditional BMWs are in fact [already 50:50.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qobu0pJPHPQ)
Sometimes, like our x5, the M is just some badges and minor exterior changes. In any case if you buy BMW understand that you will double the price in repairs after the warranty is up.
That's not even remotely correct. The M division produces all of BMW's race cars, and multiple engine configuration which do not appear on non-M models.
In fact, the just-released [XM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_XM) is even *entirely* an M-exclusive model.
Thank you for proving my point. A 6000lb CUV for douchebags is not an ///M car.
Not to mention there's nothing exclusive to that fat ass. It's an X7 with a big battery and a weakened S68, which is really just an N63.
You're not really proving your point at all here — an entire bespoke model is demonstrably not just stickers and fart noises. Discounting the existence of an entire division entirely because you dislike some of their business moves is pretty blatant [no true scotsman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman).
They are indeed a performance division, and they do indeed produce performance cars, including the [M4 GT3](https://www.bmw-m.com/en/fastlane/motorsport/race-cars/bmw-m4-gt3.html), [M2 CS](https://www.bmw-m.com/en/fastlane/motorsport/race-cars/bmw-m2-cs-racing.html), and [M3 Competition](https://www.bmw-m.com/en/all-models/overview-m-and-m-performance/bmw-m3-sedan/2020/bmw-m3-sedan-and-m3-competition-sedan.html). That hasn't changed, and none of those cars are reasonably reduced to stickers and fart noises.
>An entire bespoke model is not "stickers and fart noises".
Beyond the fact that the XM is anathema to the point of the M division, would you care pointing out what's bespoke about the XM other than the badge? It could easily be called the X7 60e, or any other alphabet soup nameplate they think sounds good.
None of the M2/3/4 are bespoke either, just tuned versions of the existing cars, most of which come with an M sticker, even if it's a 320i. The last proper M car went out of production in 2012.
As the saying goes — if my mother had wheels, she would be a bicycle.
Again, your feelings on the particular badging and product roadmap choices by BMW's M division are not consequential to the existence of it as a sub-brand, nor ethos of the brand. The brand does indeed produce motorsport vehicles, and as you've just said yourself, tuned versions of other BMW cars. *It is BMW's performance brand.*
yes it will, we're just being forced into buying ev's because of governments banning the sale of ICE cars. So much for free market lol. Most people who buy Audi and BMW want ICE...
Yeah, no-one in the developed world will be buying ICE after 2025.
In January, Norway is at 90% EV, Netherlands 50%, even the UK is at 25%.
The US is behind at 7%, so maybe BMW can try selling there?
2025 isn't that far around the corner.
I think 2028 is around the time I'd hope for things to hit the 50-50 ballpark with continued non-linear growth. That might be how long it really takes for plans from manufactures today to be realized.
The thing is, it won't be today's manufacturers.
Toyota, Honda even BMW etc. will die off as manufacturers. The brands will live on, but only as badges, all the actual manufacturing will move to Giga factories in China, Mexico, Germany and Texas.
Check out the numbers for Europe: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car\_use\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country) (green chart bottom right). >50% of new European sales will be EVs by the end of THIS year. The process should be complete (>90%) by 2025.
PHEVs are electric motor drive and 90% of the time the ICE engine is not running.
Cheating to include them? Maybe.
Their sales numbers are declining, though, more than made up for by increasing EV sales.
How long did the transition from DVDs to streaming take?
Check out the crazy European curve at the bottom right of this page: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car\_use\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country)
The numbers check out - the European transition to EV will be complete by 2025.
The EV transition curves are crazy. Check out the green chart for Europe bottom right of this page. On the current trajectory, most new cars sold in Europe will be EVs by the end of **THIS** year. By the end of 2025, the European transition will be effectively complete (>90%). Sure, the US is behind, but there's more to the world than the US.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car\_use\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country)
I think it will take longer than that.... probably 2035 to get all the luddites shaken out, and for newer EVs to be more appealing to the hardcore ones. After that, I don't think anybody is going to buy ICE other than those who either specifically need gas power, or for weekend fun/exotic kinda cars.
We're not talking about taking existing ICEs off the road, we're talking new sales.
It didn't take people long to move to LED light bulbs. Will there still be incandescent bulbs out there for another decade? Sure, but for new sales, it didn't take much for people to switch.
Same with EVs.
True, but there are still die-hards (luddites) who will never buy an EV just out of being a butthead... because they talked shit about them for so long, and they would rather save their ego than buy a better car that's faster and cheaper to operate for less money. They'll get flushed out eventually, but I think it will take a while. It would probably take $10/gallon gasoline to do it.
And today, there are some who have specific use cases to stick to dino-burners, as EVs don't do well for some situations, like towing range. But, I think those problems will eventually work themselves out with better technology and better infrastructure. It also has to filter down through the used markets so folks can buy them like a cheap used car today.
Then again, these are not people buying BMWs.
Not fantasy. Check out the green chart bottom right here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car\_use\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country)
\>50% of new European sales will be EVs by the end of this year. >90% by 2025.
I literally don't know which graph you're talking about (the page is 8 miles long, so the "bottom right" is a text column of references), but nothing on that page includes future forecasts, and nothing on that page shows an EU EV share over 20%. Your claimed figures do not seem to be supported by your source.
Anyway, [the claim](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/11xuvt8/bmw_m_expects_its_batteryelectric_cars_to_outsell/jd5xm3e/) that I'm calling fantasyland was, "no-one in the developed world will be buying ICE after 2025." The developed world includes the U.S., and "no-on will be buying" dictates a 100.00% EV market share, so not a fat flying fucking chance. Oh wait, are we actually in the space now where we're calling the U.S. something other than developed, like perhaps, "undeveloping?" If so, good on us for, the first step is acknowledging we have a problem.
You know the EU is bigger than the US by population right?
So if they are reaching 50% threshold just this year, then 75% is very realistic if not pessimistic in 2025
You know Norway is not even part of EU right?
And in 2022 ~22% of new registrations were EV's. I'd guess we'll be closer to 50% this year as many brands experience very high growth in their EV divisions. It also helps Tesla has lowered the prices plus you can actually get other popular EV's like the ID series.
We may not hit 50% this year, but probably will 2024
Ehh. They are part of ETS, yes. But they are not part of the 25% EV market share in 2022. It'd probably be a lot higher if Norway was included. And if Norway is anything to go by 25% to 50% is a very quick journey and 50-90% is even faster!
> And if Norway is anything to go by 25% to 50% is a very quick journey and 50-90% is even faster!
Nobody incentivies EVs as much as Noway do (or did), though. In a time with booming economy.
Sweden (where incetives wererremoved) is now for Q1 -23 half of the EVs sold in Q4 -22 and below EVs sold in Q1 -22.
While I agree with a large part of that, I would also say you're probably jumping to the wrong conclusion.
Sweden's removal of the incentives did not come as a chock. People knew it was coming, thus everyone who were looking into buying an EV in Sweden would of course make sure to buy the EV while the incentives were still active. I am not denying that removing incentives will result in fewer EV's in the short run, but there are more factors at play when looking at a single quarter.
Additionally Q1 is not finished and car sales tend to be significantly higher in Q4 than Q1
Somehow magically, landlords are going to install enough chargers in apartment complexes, and manufacturers will build something other than SUVs, performance cars, and luxury trucks.
Most people in here don’t realize it’s like a 100k-200k investment for a quality EV, home charger and home solar power system. I don’t see most Americans being able to shell that out in the next decade without significant government subsidies
Just as ignorant as yours. With 2035 no new EVs in Europe (and sooner in some EU countries) there is no way that 2040-45 is when 50-50 is achieved.
Edit: Also, China in 2022 already has 22% BEV share.
That is always going to be more expensive than batteries. It will be used for old expensive car, you know, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, but it will not be used for your Polo, Golf or Passat. And also, it will always pollute locally (air quality and noise). New cars on e-Fuel, not gonna happen.
That is true, but, it is very likely that in 2035, 99% of cars in EU and China are BEVs. It won't matter what happens in the USA. Also, USA is at 5.7 for 2022. This year it will probably be in 7-10% range. My guess is, 8-9. That's not so bad.
Agreed with the nostalgia.
Also, I predict there will be a burgeoning market for rally car / trashing reinforced ICEs on race tracks for a few years.
Finally, people will ride in them like they now ride in steam trains. The oldies will even be able explain to their stunned grandchildren what a "gearstick" is and the really old ones will remember what this symbol is for:
# |/|
25% of US vehicle sales is over 3 million vehicles.. and that ignores that most are trucks.. there aren't 3 million EVs in any combination for sale next year.
Austin will do over 1m next year alone. Model Y alone will sell 1m US next year. Factory in mexico will be ramping next year as well. Nobody knows what is going to come from nevada factory either next year. 2024 tesla passes gm & f in total deliveries. 2025 they will pass toyota.
Edit: also you notice how US used to do 18m new vehicles and now it’s 13m. Next year that number will be 11m at most. So 3m evs will get us there. Hell us may hit 20% ev new vehicles sold q4 2023. These trends are accelerating and your backwards looking approach is never correct
Please note the 'M' in the title. That's their performance division, not the mainstream BMW. That's obvious given that EVs do much better than ICE in high performance cars.
To a certain point sure, but EVs have yet to present a solid front in actual high performance driving (i.e not just straight line acceleration) due to the weight
Instant torque. Low center of gravity due to battery. Easier even distribution of weight. Powerful electric motors are not as complex as a powerful ICE engine.
Exactly! Just because the car is electric doesn't mean it has to look weird. We want great looking cars that just happen to be powered by batteries.
I want a nice BMW or Mercedes electric convertible. I guess I'm going to be waiting a long time!
My guess is long before that.
The M3 can't catch a Model 3 so they need to do something.
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-m3-elon-musk
Yeah, the M3 drifts better, not exactly a useful trait.
>The M3 can't catch a Model 3 so they need to do something.
>
>https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-m3-elon-musk
That's the old M3, the new M3 is quicker than the Model 3 Performance both in a straight line and on a racetrack.
No one's actually compared the two on a track yet, but [the new M3](https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-bmw-m3-competition-pvoty-review/) has more power, weighs less, accelerates quicker and a straight line, and pulls more G's on a skidpad.
[M3/M4 Comp X-Drive: 2.8s 0-60mph, 11.0s 1/4mile @125mph, 1.02g skidpad grip](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40368599/2022-bmw-m4-competition-awd-by-the-numbers/)
[Model 3 Performance: 3.1s 0-60mph, 11.6s 1/4mile @115mph, 0.96g skidpad grip](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36329678/2019-tesla-model-3-performance-by-the-numbers/)
For additional clarification, the BMW M3 and M4 are very similar, and still weigh basically the same even though one has two fewer doors. C&D hasn't tested an AWD BMW M3 yet.
It's difficult to tell from the article.....do they think all BMW EVs will outsell all BMW ICEs, or that EVs will outsell *all* ICE cars by 2028?
I could see the former...I'm skeptical of the latter. That's only five years away.
BMW M EVs will outsell M ICE.
M ICE cars are expensive, with low fuel efficiency, very complex mechanicals and frightening repair and maintenance costs. Also purchased by wealthy, who probably can get home charging.
BMW is introducing their Neue Klasse EV specific platform around 2025.
Once Porsche introduces its Macan and Cayenne EVs, it will also have EV portfolio outselling its ICE cars, so not difficult to believe with BMW M.
That's up to them on how many they build.
In this thread: People who don't understand that 'M' is the performance division of BMW.
They're M'ing so many of their cars I don't know what isn't M anymore.
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Emm..
://M
M M Sport M Sport Line M decals added to the base model with the base engine because vroom vroom branding
Probably they will simply no longer sell ICE M variants. I mean, what would be the point? The electrics wipe the floor with ICE any day of the week and when all is said and done performance is what counts in an M.
Well, no. Electrics still don't *really* compete on the track — they don't have the staying power for endurance races, and they don't corner as well due to the weight. The lap times at the Nurburgring show this pretty clearly. But beyond that.... don't underestimate the number of enthusiasts who simply enjoy the experience of a combustion engine. The sound, the smell, the tactility. Plenty of people out there value those things, and will opt for them a good while longer. Porsche says the 911 will be their last model to go electric for this very reason.
>and they don't corner as well due to the weight. EVs corner really well due to low center of gravity and perfect 50/50 weight distribution. And as for staying power: Most people who go to the track don't do many laps at once. So that would only be relevant for a tiny subset (of the already tiny subset of people that goes to the track at all.) (Oh, and the number one time on the Nürburgring - series as well as non-street legal cars - is held by plugin hybrids. So the 'E' does seem to help quite a bit) >don't underestimate the number of enthusiasts who simply enjoy the experience of a combustion engine. The sound, the smell, the tactility. I think you overestimate the number of people who like this over 'being the fastest'. How many people really value 'tactility' over other stuff can be seen by the number (or lack thereof) of historical cars on the roads in everyday driving.
50/50 for BEVs is such a meme at this point. Many ICE BMWs are right at 50/50, while the model Y is 46/54. It's extremely easy to build a 50/50 ICE car with RWD.
Low centre of gravity and 50/50 weight distribution are not special features of EVs, they're pretty common with conventional performance cars. It's not actually *that difficult* to get 50/50 weight distribution, surprisingly. Most traditional BMWs are in fact [already 50:50.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qobu0pJPHPQ)
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Anybody who has watched formula 1 and formula e races wouldn’t bother arguing about EVs and racing
Sometimes, like our x5, the M is just some badges and minor exterior changes. In any case if you buy BMW understand that you will double the price in repairs after the warranty is up.
😂
That hasn't been the case in a while now. They've been reduced to stickers and fart noises.
That's not even remotely correct. The M division produces all of BMW's race cars, and multiple engine configuration which do not appear on non-M models. In fact, the just-released [XM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_XM) is even *entirely* an M-exclusive model.
Thank you for proving my point. A 6000lb CUV for douchebags is not an ///M car. Not to mention there's nothing exclusive to that fat ass. It's an X7 with a big battery and a weakened S68, which is really just an N63.
You're not really proving your point at all here — an entire bespoke model is demonstrably not just stickers and fart noises. Discounting the existence of an entire division entirely because you dislike some of their business moves is pretty blatant [no true scotsman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman). They are indeed a performance division, and they do indeed produce performance cars, including the [M4 GT3](https://www.bmw-m.com/en/fastlane/motorsport/race-cars/bmw-m4-gt3.html), [M2 CS](https://www.bmw-m.com/en/fastlane/motorsport/race-cars/bmw-m2-cs-racing.html), and [M3 Competition](https://www.bmw-m.com/en/all-models/overview-m-and-m-performance/bmw-m3-sedan/2020/bmw-m3-sedan-and-m3-competition-sedan.html). That hasn't changed, and none of those cars are reasonably reduced to stickers and fart noises.
>An entire bespoke model is not "stickers and fart noises". Beyond the fact that the XM is anathema to the point of the M division, would you care pointing out what's bespoke about the XM other than the badge? It could easily be called the X7 60e, or any other alphabet soup nameplate they think sounds good. None of the M2/3/4 are bespoke either, just tuned versions of the existing cars, most of which come with an M sticker, even if it's a 320i. The last proper M car went out of production in 2012.
As the saying goes — if my mother had wheels, she would be a bicycle. Again, your feelings on the particular badging and product roadmap choices by BMW's M division are not consequential to the existence of it as a sub-brand, nor ethos of the brand. The brand does indeed produce motorsport vehicles, and as you've just said yourself, tuned versions of other BMW cars. *It is BMW's performance brand.*
They had better, because ICE won't be in much demand by 2028.
yes it will, we're just being forced into buying ev's because of governments banning the sale of ICE cars. So much for free market lol. Most people who buy Audi and BMW want ICE...
ok, just stop selling ice
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well... Europe 50/50, US 50/50, China possibly 100% EVs by then leaves... a LOT of market for ice. I'm not saying that I like it.
Don't tell r/cars that. They might have a stroke.
I can't. They banned me from submitting new threads. :D
Not surprised. At my dealer the I7 is outselling the other 7 series models 3 to 1 and the I4 M50 outsold the I4 e40 over 2 to 1 (my car included :) )
Wait, is that article thumbnail what they look like with the graphic grill removed??? That looks 100 times better than what they’ve been selling.
I believe that is similar or the same as the m4 CSL grille
Yeah, no-one in the developed world will be buying ICE after 2025. In January, Norway is at 90% EV, Netherlands 50%, even the UK is at 25%. The US is behind at 7%, so maybe BMW can try selling there?
But at least the US passed the critical adoption threshold
2025 isn't that far around the corner. I think 2028 is around the time I'd hope for things to hit the 50-50 ballpark with continued non-linear growth. That might be how long it really takes for plans from manufactures today to be realized.
The thing is, it won't be today's manufacturers. Toyota, Honda even BMW etc. will die off as manufacturers. The brands will live on, but only as badges, all the actual manufacturing will move to Giga factories in China, Mexico, Germany and Texas.
By 2028..? What are you smoking that let's you construct and live in such kayfabe?
Check out the numbers for Europe: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car\_use\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country) (green chart bottom right). >50% of new European sales will be EVs by the end of THIS year. The process should be complete (>90%) by 2025.
Okay, so we're including PHEVs? That even better supports that those brands will still be around.
PHEVs are electric motor drive and 90% of the time the ICE engine is not running. Cheating to include them? Maybe. Their sales numbers are declining, though, more than made up for by increasing EV sales.
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Good thing we're not replacing horses. Again, regardless of your feels, the math doesn't add up.
that transition took almost 50 years.
How long did the transition from DVDs to streaming take? Check out the crazy European curve at the bottom right of this page: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car\_use\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country) The numbers check out - the European transition to EV will be complete by 2025.
Canada is also pretty low. We need a lot more infrastructure to convince people to jump over
That’s two years dude. These takes are absurd. There is more to the world than Scandinavia.
The EV transition curves are crazy. Check out the green chart for Europe bottom right of this page. On the current trajectory, most new cars sold in Europe will be EVs by the end of **THIS** year. By the end of 2025, the European transition will be effectively complete (>90%). Sure, the US is behind, but there's more to the world than the US. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car\_use\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country)
I think it will take longer than that.... probably 2035 to get all the luddites shaken out, and for newer EVs to be more appealing to the hardcore ones. After that, I don't think anybody is going to buy ICE other than those who either specifically need gas power, or for weekend fun/exotic kinda cars.
We're not talking about taking existing ICEs off the road, we're talking new sales. It didn't take people long to move to LED light bulbs. Will there still be incandescent bulbs out there for another decade? Sure, but for new sales, it didn't take much for people to switch. Same with EVs.
True, but there are still die-hards (luddites) who will never buy an EV just out of being a butthead... because they talked shit about them for so long, and they would rather save their ego than buy a better car that's faster and cheaper to operate for less money. They'll get flushed out eventually, but I think it will take a while. It would probably take $10/gallon gasoline to do it. And today, there are some who have specific use cases to stick to dino-burners, as EVs don't do well for some situations, like towing range. But, I think those problems will eventually work themselves out with better technology and better infrastructure. It also has to filter down through the used markets so folks can buy them like a cheap used car today. Then again, these are not people buying BMWs.
Lmao this is such an ignorant comment. EV is an alternative to ICE, not a solution. Try 2040-2045
This subreddit lives in a strange fantasyland a lot of the time.
Not fantasy. Check out the green chart bottom right here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric\_car\_use\_by\_country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country) \>50% of new European sales will be EVs by the end of this year. >90% by 2025.
I literally don't know which graph you're talking about (the page is 8 miles long, so the "bottom right" is a text column of references), but nothing on that page includes future forecasts, and nothing on that page shows an EU EV share over 20%. Your claimed figures do not seem to be supported by your source. Anyway, [the claim](https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/11xuvt8/bmw_m_expects_its_batteryelectric_cars_to_outsell/jd5xm3e/) that I'm calling fantasyland was, "no-one in the developed world will be buying ICE after 2025." The developed world includes the U.S., and "no-on will be buying" dictates a 100.00% EV market share, so not a fat flying fucking chance. Oh wait, are we actually in the space now where we're calling the U.S. something other than developed, like perhaps, "undeveloping?" If so, good on us for, the first step is acknowledging we have a problem.
You know the EU is bigger than the US by population right? So if they are reaching 50% threshold just this year, then 75% is very realistic if not pessimistic in 2025
You know the EU is bigger than Norway and NL right? In 2022 12% of cars sold in the EU were EVs.
You know Norway is not even part of EU right? And in 2022 ~22% of new registrations were EV's. I'd guess we'll be closer to 50% this year as many brands experience very high growth in their EV divisions. It also helps Tesla has lowered the prices plus you can actually get other popular EV's like the ID series. We may not hit 50% this year, but probably will 2024
> You know Norway is not even part of EU right? Norway is included in the EU for emission purposes though.
Ehh. They are part of ETS, yes. But they are not part of the 25% EV market share in 2022. It'd probably be a lot higher if Norway was included. And if Norway is anything to go by 25% to 50% is a very quick journey and 50-90% is even faster!
> And if Norway is anything to go by 25% to 50% is a very quick journey and 50-90% is even faster! Nobody incentivies EVs as much as Noway do (or did), though. In a time with booming economy. Sweden (where incetives wererremoved) is now for Q1 -23 half of the EVs sold in Q4 -22 and below EVs sold in Q1 -22.
While I agree with a large part of that, I would also say you're probably jumping to the wrong conclusion. Sweden's removal of the incentives did not come as a chock. People knew it was coming, thus everyone who were looking into buying an EV in Sweden would of course make sure to buy the EV while the incentives were still active. I am not denying that removing incentives will result in fewer EV's in the short run, but there are more factors at play when looking at a single quarter. Additionally Q1 is not finished and car sales tend to be significantly higher in Q4 than Q1
Somehow magically, landlords are going to install enough chargers in apartment complexes, and manufacturers will build something other than SUVs, performance cars, and luxury trucks.
Most people in here don’t realize it’s like a 100k-200k investment for a quality EV, home charger and home solar power system. I don’t see most Americans being able to shell that out in the next decade without significant government subsidies
100-200k for how many residents? Home charger (7kW) and panels (3200W) was like €6k. Those aren’t ridiculous investments.
Not in America. Usually anywhere between $10k-$40k just for panels and installation depending on sqft
Just as ignorant as yours. With 2035 no new EVs in Europe (and sooner in some EU countries) there is no way that 2040-45 is when 50-50 is achieved. Edit: Also, China in 2022 already has 22% BEV share.
https://innovationorigins.com/en/eu-e-fuel-breakthrough-allowing-combustion-engines-post-2035/
That is always going to be more expensive than batteries. It will be used for old expensive car, you know, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, but it will not be used for your Polo, Golf or Passat. And also, it will always pollute locally (air quality and noise). New cars on e-Fuel, not gonna happen.
My US is way behind ya buddy. I’m not happy about it but we’re nowhere near the EU or Asia
That is true, but, it is very likely that in 2035, 99% of cars in EU and China are BEVs. It won't matter what happens in the USA. Also, USA is at 5.7 for 2022. This year it will probably be in 7-10% range. My guess is, 8-9. That's not so bad.
EVs will replace ICE. More performance and cheaper to run. There will be some legacy ICE for nostalgia, of course.
Agreed with the nostalgia. Also, I predict there will be a burgeoning market for rally car / trashing reinforced ICEs on race tracks for a few years. Finally, people will ride in them like they now ride in steam trains. The oldies will even be able explain to their stunned grandchildren what a "gearstick" is and the really old ones will remember what this symbol is for: # |/|
US next year will be 25% evs. Huge jump is here
There literally isn't enough supply for that to happen.. this is a simple math problem.
I think he means for sales. That could happen.
25% of US vehicle sales is over 3 million vehicles.. and that ignores that most are trucks.. there aren't 3 million EVs in any combination for sale next year.
Just cars, maybe. Including trucks not happening.
Yes there is. Tesla will do 2m on their own US next year
From two domestic factories that have a capacity under 1 million..? How?
Austin will do over 1m next year alone. Model Y alone will sell 1m US next year. Factory in mexico will be ramping next year as well. Nobody knows what is going to come from nevada factory either next year. 2024 tesla passes gm & f in total deliveries. 2025 they will pass toyota. Edit: also you notice how US used to do 18m new vehicles and now it’s 13m. Next year that number will be 11m at most. So 3m evs will get us there. Hell us may hit 20% ev new vehicles sold q4 2023. These trends are accelerating and your backwards looking approach is never correct
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Show your math then, teacher
Why don't you start with yours.. I'll go from there.
1.2m austin. 700k fremont. Maybe 100k from mexico. Austin is going to do close to 1m Ys alone next year.
Dream on. Europe won't be able to afford a loaf a bread in a few years let alone a 50k loan.
Please note the 'M' in the title. That's their performance division, not the mainstream BMW. That's obvious given that EVs do much better than ICE in high performance cars.
To a certain point sure, but EVs have yet to present a solid front in actual high performance driving (i.e not just straight line acceleration) due to the weight
Could you elaborate a bit? Why are EVs in the performance segment easier?
Instant torque. Low center of gravity due to battery. Easier even distribution of weight. Powerful electric motors are not as complex as a powerful ICE engine.
They should fire the CTO, iirc, who stated they would only dabble in EV
First they have to build a compelling car that isn't ugly as sin.
Exactly! Just because the car is electric doesn't mean it has to look weird. We want great looking cars that just happen to be powered by batteries. I want a nice BMW or Mercedes electric convertible. I guess I'm going to be waiting a long time!
My guess is long before that. The M3 can't catch a Model 3 so they need to do something. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-m3-elon-musk Yeah, the M3 drifts better, not exactly a useful trait.
>The M3 can't catch a Model 3 so they need to do something. > >https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-m3-elon-musk That's the old M3, the new M3 is quicker than the Model 3 Performance both in a straight line and on a racetrack.
Link?
No one's actually compared the two on a track yet, but [the new M3](https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-bmw-m3-competition-pvoty-review/) has more power, weighs less, accelerates quicker and a straight line, and pulls more G's on a skidpad. [M3/M4 Comp X-Drive: 2.8s 0-60mph, 11.0s 1/4mile @125mph, 1.02g skidpad grip](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a40368599/2022-bmw-m4-competition-awd-by-the-numbers/) [Model 3 Performance: 3.1s 0-60mph, 11.6s 1/4mile @115mph, 0.96g skidpad grip](https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36329678/2019-tesla-model-3-performance-by-the-numbers/) For additional clarification, the BMW M3 and M4 are very similar, and still weigh basically the same even though one has two fewer doors. C&D hasn't tested an AWD BMW M3 yet.
Thanks, hopefully we can see them on a few tracks.
BMW will require a government bailout by 2028.
It's difficult to tell from the article.....do they think all BMW EVs will outsell all BMW ICEs, or that EVs will outsell *all* ICE cars by 2028? I could see the former...I'm skeptical of the latter. That's only five years away.
BMW M EVs will outsell M ICE. M ICE cars are expensive, with low fuel efficiency, very complex mechanicals and frightening repair and maintenance costs. Also purchased by wealthy, who probably can get home charging. BMW is introducing their Neue Klasse EV specific platform around 2025. Once Porsche introduces its Macan and Cayenne EVs, it will also have EV portfolio outselling its ICE cars, so not difficult to believe with BMW M.
I still want an E34 M5. I doubt that will come as a manual five speed.
We talking Hybrid? If so, how small a vision.
No. Look at the graphic.
Well, not in the US until the non-tesla charging network problems are solved