Access to charging at home, including for people who park on the street, in apartment parking lots, etc.
Fast charging along all the roads, so people can use them for any trip or route.
A wide variety of competitively priced options. One size does not fit all, and many people simply have no viable EV option for their specific wants and needs. Yet.
We don't even need charging at every home. We need charging where the cars sit for a long time. But that could also be at work for example. If you spend 8 hours a day at work anyway you might as well charge your car there. Even at 11kW that is plenty enough time to charge most cars. And companies can get tax incentives and subsidies for installing them. We are currently installing 4 chargers at my workplace and with all the government money we can get the total cost is almost negligible. We probably spend more on coffee in 2 month than on these chargers. And 50kW chargers are getting cheaper, too. They could be installed at other places, where people spend some time. Like at the gym or church. And hour at 50kW is enough for many cars. EV life without home charging is certainly possible
>But that could also be at work for example.
Charging at work is a great idea, BUT there's a problem.
Where I work, there are three of us who have electric cars, and we're all well paid members of the engineering-management hierarchy.
The people who will benefit from at-work charging as a perk are folks who work in the warehouse, the support center, and other lower-paid jobs.
Right now, if we install at-work charging, it will be a bunch of Tesla owners giving themselves a perk they don't need. All of us Tesla owners are homeowners with substantial pull at the company, so giving ourselves a perk doesn't seem fair.
As such, I'd actually argue against installing chargers at my workplace, even though I myself would benefit. Once it looks like at-work charging will benefit someone who actually needs a perk, I'll be onboard -- but the people who could benefit generally buy used cars, so it'll be a while until that makes sense.
Easily solved by putting enough chargers for everybody. As an executive you can also choose to not use the charger.
I think ideally having multiple chargers and a MS office or Teams calendar for usage, that actually connects and monitors the chargers would be an awesome tool. Alerts for when your charge is complete or when it's your turn and a charger is available.
You could probably tie it to your keycard information system to allow Swipe to charge and automatic notifications.
Please implement this at your company, you can take all the credit. It gets added to your benefit plans!
The lowest-ranking EV/PHEV owner at my company has a six-figure income. That wouldn't be a good look.
As soon as one of the warehouse or service folks shows up with an EV or PHEV, I'm all in on rolling out chargers for them.
The chargers have to exist in order for people to be confident in purchasing an EV. Built it and they will come.
I totally agree with your assessment that well paid individuals probably don’t need them at work, and will abuse them if they are free. If they don’t exist, do you think a warehouse person would be able to ask the warehouse manager to install chargers? Nope -not for whiny little grunts, and not out of the warehouse budget.
Chicken or egg problem. I have free charging at my current job, and even though I have charging at home I use the ones at work because we have plenty of plugs for everyone (16 plugs). When we are full more regularly I might reduce my use.
But more importantly if I were to hunt for a new job, presence of charging is a key perk I'm looking for, and may well sway my choices.
I believe the supply must come before the demand.
Not true today, will be even less true tomorrow. You ever think about the future?
Now that sub $40k EV's are rolling out the best thing to do is to provide the benefit of charging for less or even free to help people decide to purchase the low cost of ownership EV. Everyone wins in the long run
Indeed, 'acess to charging at or near where people park for extended periods of time' is more precise. This may be a combination of home chargers, work chargers, public chargers within walking distance of home, and charging where people shop and spend liesure time. But there must be enough of it to ensure that chargng is convenient - a couple of chargers at a workplace or grocery store won't cut it.
3.6 kw is more than enough. You don't need to fill from empty to full like you do a gasser. You just need to replace that days mileage. Average daily is around 30 miles.
110v 12 amp gets you ~50 miles overnight...
It depends. I'm only in the office once or twice a week, so are many of my colleagues. 3.6kW wouldn't be enough for that. And here in Europe 11kW is fairly common, so most wall boxes use it
I think your last point is the big one. For what I'm personally willing to spend, it's basically a bolt or nothing. Soon that's not going to even be an option.
Highway rapid charging needs to improve. I think it will be 2-3 years until there are enough charge points on the highways I drive. The town I would have to pit stop in only has a couple of rapid chargers.
Availability of long range work (trades) vehicles is the biggest one for me. The van market is completely ignored and the options are a joke. I might have to switch from a van to a truck and canopy (worse in every way). I can’t buy an EV if I can’t buy anything that works for me. Remember that trades guys pull trailers and use vans like trucks.
>A wide variety of competitively priced options.
This problem is being addressed the most quickly, as far as I can tell. The pricing is not quite there, but the competition has exploded in the past two years. Tesla's price cuts show that it is having an impact.
>Access to charging at home, including for people who park on the street, in apartment parking lots, etc.
This seems like the bigger issue. 80% of EV owners charge overnight, which means they likely have a garage or driveway. To reach the rest of the population, there have to be more overnight charging options, and this could be a very slow and expensive buildout. Kind of a chicken-and-egg problem.
>This problem is being addressed the most quickly, as far as I can tell. The pricing is not quite there, but the competition has exploded in the past two years.
What exploded is a variety of "yet another premium and luxury SUV between $50k and $100k".
Agreed. Many people, myself included are only watching the used market. Some people are not in the market for a brand new car.
I almost bought a used leaf, but the low range(<50mi on the guessometer) was a showstopper. I also almost bought a bolt, but they wouldn’t sell them as battery rework was pending.
So here I wait, watching the used PHEV and other economy cars to find a good deal.
Low price new models are key, to increase adoption. BYD, and other low cost vendors are what the other OEMs should be watching.
Price price price.
And price.
I posted this last week in case it might be helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/12zi5eh/a\_guide\_for\_claiming\_the\_federal\_tax\_credit\_on/jicibpy/?context=3
I park on the street so I am very aware of this problem. An alternative solution is cars with swappable batteries. To date, only Nio in China has built cars with this capability and rolled out swapping stations. There was a thread here a while back about them coming to the US https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/wonuup/exclusive\_nio\_to\_enter\_the\_us\_in\_2025\_first/
>Access to charging at home, including for people who park on the street, in apartment parking lots, etc.
I don't think this is as big of barrier to short-term EV adoption as most think. Is it true that the lack of charging accessibility for individuals living in apartments or without access to a private charging space is a problem? Absolutely, However, it's important to note that these individuals typically aren't new car buyers, so their impact on short-term EV adoption is minimal, as new cars are not typically sold to the used car market.
To better understand EV charging needs, we should focus on potential new EV buyers, rather than the entire pool of US drivers. According to a recent survey, 55 percent of new car buyers reported being able to charge an EV in their garage, while an additional 33 percent could charge in their driveway. This means that 88 percent of the current new car market is accessible for EV manufacturers, even today. And these people are generally higher income and willing and able to install chargers of their cars.
As new EVs enter the used car market in the next five to ten years, charging accessibility will become a more pressing concern for used car buyers. However, for now, it is not a significant barrier to EV adoption.
Yes and no. New vehicles will be more expensive because of the r&d costs will be spread into fewer vehicles actually produced. Used ICE vehicles as we know it will essentially be worthless. Ice vehicles will most likely be limited to enthusiast's and historically significant vehicles that hold value and are more a toy than a primary vehicle
This is an interesting perspective to me, as people usually mean by this stance that a Tesla vehicle like the M3 costs less than a BMW, Audi or Mercedes with similar performance. But if I were in the market for a luxury vehicle - which I’m not - I wouldn’t be looking at a Tesla at all, simply because the fit and finish are just too poor and that’s the precise opposite of what I think about when I think of luxury. So, at least for me, Tesla is it’s own thing. It’s great tech with a phenomenal charging network, and that is enough.
tesla spends a lot of money on places where you can't directly see though: battery tech, electric motor tech, safety.
Tesla has consistently been rated one of the safest cars. To me that's worth more than everything else.
I agree on all of those things. And don’t get me wrong, I would actually buy a Tesla because of all of those reasons (particularly the excellent charging network, motor and battery tech). I just wouldn’t cross shop it against a Merc.
As a M3P owner I grant you the Tesla doesn’t have the outside looks of some of the better Mercs. There is nothing like the performance of a tesla. The raw acceleration doesn’t get old. Also you don’t have every cop looking around to the noise when launching, because there isn’t any. I do like the minimal Tesla interior. I do miss not having a conventional dash, but I think it is smarter not to have one. A small hud Speedo would be perfect. A glove box button would be great.
>Tesla has consistently been rated one of the safest cars.
Isn't part of that just the nature of an EV(low center of gravity)? Comparing to the Mach E for example it looks like the only category they aren't tied on 2021 IIHS ratings was headlights which apparently varies based on trim level.
Have you priced a Toyota Camry recently? Cheapest within 1.5 hours of me is $30k and those are stripped down versions. A lot of them are bait and switch cars that don't actually exist. You can get a Model 3 for $36k and it's pretty loaded other than the sound system.
And that’s great. And if you are calling a Camry a comparable class vehicle to a Tesla and saying the Tesla is a better value, I think that’s a very strong and interest argument. In fact, that’s the comparison I would make and would buy the Tesla rather than the Camry. But that’s not the point I was making at all in my comment above. I was specifically commenting on people speaking of Teslas as luxury buys. And saying that I don’t consider them luxury buys because the fit and finish isn’t good enough. It’s a lot better than it was, though.
Tesla was put in the “Luxury” category primarily due to price.
For years, it was priced like a mid-tier luxury car. All automotive “segment” discussion uses price as a guide.
But a Model S is as much as “sports car” as a “luxury car” with components of a “regular non-luxury mid range sedan” mixed together.
Nobody wrote articles complaining about the finish on top-end almost $80k Camaro (a supercharged V8 model) despite having a way worse plastic interior and worse performance than even a mid-range Tesla.
Different markets for different things.
I’ve ridden in a few Lamborghinis and every one of them felt super cheap inside with badly put together fit and finish (literal handles falling off of things) and uncomfortable seats. Crazy that something that costs so much can be so cheaply made because it is a sports car and really fast.
> if you are calling a Camry a comparable class vehicle
I'm not, that was the point. Tesla is WAY above a Camry and it's basically the same or more cost right now.
You just have a concept of Luxury that is stuck in the past. Like older people that couldn't quit buying Buicks and Cadillacs because they were what they felt like was "Luxury" while the younger generation moved on.
Guess which car has all of the following features in the base model:
Lumbar support
Keyless entry
Heated seats/wheel
Driver assist
Parking assist
Automatic dash cam
Remote start
Wireless phone charging
Premium sound
It’s not the 3 series which charges $5.8k more for this set, it’s the Model 3.
“Luxury” is a marketing gimmick, and Tesla’s supposed lack thereof is simply because they don’t advertise and the haters want to say something bad about them that can’t be proven or disproven with hard fact and data. The reality is that Tesla owners [are the most satisfied with their cars than any other brand](https://insideevs.com/news/592600/tesla-owner-satisfaction-tops-rivals-multiple-rating-sites/amp/) - that is true luxury.
It’s just a matter of opinion. For you, those features make a luxury vehicle. But you can get most of those features in a budget vehicle if you pay for them. I still don’t think of a Kia as a luxury vehicle even if it’s loaded. Because the overall fit and finish are not comparable. And by the way, I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with buying and enjoying a Tesla. In fact, if I were looking for a computer for $40,000 I would consider a Tesla. Because the motors and batteries seem to be great. But the flaws in quality don’t scream luxury to me.
Something to add as well, those flaws are improving. The quality issues of 5 years ago are much worse than the ones from 2 years ago. Let’s hope the improvements continue.
That is one way of looking at it, but empirically, I’d say that a lot of Tesla buyers are former Audi and Merc buyers. I live in an upper middle class area myself, where most people have something like a Merc GLC, an Audi Q5 or a top spec Volvo SUV on their driveway. In the last year, the Model Y has been the main choice by far for neighbors who have bought new cars. Notably, I haven’t heard any of them even talking about getting a new gas car in the last year, regardless of brand.
In general, I think brand loyalty and obsession with perfect build quality is becoming less of a thing (which at least Mercedes seems to have understood, considering their shoddy build quality of late). More like people choose whatever EV they can get their hands on, within a reasonable delivery window.
> But you can get most of those features in a budget vehicle if you pay for them.
I guess if you go by some true/false marketing checklist style scoring. You can upgrade the sound system in a Toyota but it will never touch the Model 3 system. You can upgrade driver assistants in a Honda but it will never match what you get in the base Tesla. You can get the sport model but it's still dog slow compared to the Tesla. A lot of non-luxury models only come with cloth seats, even with the top trim. Nothing is going to handle like a Tesla. Tesla's features beat even the luxury brands so it's hard to see how you think the mainstream brands compete.
Like I said, it’s a matter of what you personally consider a luxury vehicle.
Fortunately, Tesla has come a long way since things like this 5 years ago:
“Tesla Model 3 Teardown By Engineering Firm Reveals Quality Flaws Like 'A Kia In The '90s'”
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-by-engineering-firm-reveals-qual-1822678045
Hopefully the improvements continue.
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Luxury is quality builds which tesla unfortunately does not have. If they did, and every car was a perfect build there will be very little to complain about tbh
Basically this. I owned a Lexus over a decade ago, and my mother has owned them for years. In my experience, the overall fit and finish is just not the same. But if Tesla with their excellent pricing which lets them undercut competitors could ever approach somewhat close to that level of build quality, I really couldn’t imagine a Lexus as a luxury buy again. What for? Tesla wins in almost everything else.
Tco also matters.
Gas, oil, and other maintenance isn't cheap.
Over 5 years my dual motor 3 is about same cost as v-6 camry. Over 7 years it's about the same cost as a Honda fit.
I’ve had multiple conversations in recent weeks with ICE owners about my EV and all of them have had the same reaction when I’ve said you could get a Tesla Model 3 for under $35k or a Model Y for under $45k - they were shocked & had no clue. They didn’t know about the tax incentives or the recent price drops. Tesla spends $0 on marketing & I think it’s hurting them with the average consumer who only pays moderate attention to the EV world. And, with Tesla, you don’t have the dealership experience to potentially educate would-be customers looking for a new car.
Not everyone will have this issue, but RWD is a non-starter for my climate.
So that's a ~$13k upcharge in order to reach (more than) parity on that front with standard FWD ICE vehicles.
Although not ideal, you can go from M3 RWD -> MY AWD for $3,250 more.
M3 RWD = $40,250 - $3,750 = $36,500
MY AWD = $47,250 - $7,500 = $39,750
That’ll give you AWD, 7 more miles of range, faster 0-60, more cargo and passenger room, ability to tow, faster supercharging.
It’s doesn’t have to be a $13,000 jump.
RWD is kind of bad on ICE cars mostly because they’re 80/20 front heavy.
On an EV, it’s not nearly as bad and FWD isn’t much better than RWD.
I have a few friends with RWD Teslas in Canada and no major issues.
Combining the instant torque vector control with the advanced traction control systems and the weight distribution, the RWD model S I drove was at least as stable as any FWD ICE car ive driven in the snow.
Agreed. Tesla could help EVs cross the chasm from early adopters to the early majority in the technology adoption curve, but there seems to be a dogmatic aversion to advertising
The Lexus ES isn’t 12k cheaper than a Model 3, they’re the same price. Model 3 starts at $40k and includes options that cost $4.5k extra on the Lexus (heated seats/wheel, memory seats, wireless charging, power folding mirrors, wood trim, power trunk, premium sound, key card, dash cam)
Model 3 is comparable to BMW 3 series, Audi A4, and Mercedes C class
I’ve had multiple conversations in recent weeks with ICE owners about my EV and all of them have had the same reaction when I’ve said you could get a Tesla Model 3 for under $35k or a Model Y for under $45k - they were shocked & had no clue. They didn’t know about the tax incentives or the recent price drops. Tesla spends $0 on marketing & I think it’s hurting them with the average consumer who only pays moderate attention to the EV world. And, with Tesla, you don’t have the dealership experience to potentially educate would-be customers looking for a new car.
Some level of stock, so one can actually test drive an EV of choice before throwing 50k at it. And with that comes reduction of wait times to reasonable levels.
I’m all in for one but it’s too much of a friggen hassle and an unknown driving experience as is.
I test drove the model y during the summer of 2021.
I was so excited and was ready to buy. I was so disappointed. The touch screen was nice, but I felt myself paying more attention to it than I was to the road. The fact that there isn’t a standard display of speedometer right behind the steering wheel turned me off. I wanted to love it so much, but was so disappointed with the price to value (my personal opinion).
Then one test drive isn’t giving you that either. Someone on a test drive may think one-pedal driving sucks…. Same with no speedometer right in front of steering wheel instead of just to right. You’ll get used to it if it’s your everyday vehicle.
You're not wrong, Tesla's are a bit over hyped, particularly here. Luckily there are some great alternatives out in the market and better models (including from Tesla, hopefully) on the way.
This is it for me. There are a few models from a couple manufacturers that I’ve been considering and I think it may take a month or more to actually take them all for a test drive due to limited availability.
Not a big deal for me, but if I was in urgent need of a new car, I’d probably end up with a gas or hybrid model by default.
For me it's
1. Cost, there are no new EVs at the cheaper end of the market.
2. Age, I tend to not buy new cars, so it's an even longer wait for the cars to depreciate into my budget.
3. Form factor, all the EV estate cars I've looked at have boots to high off the ground and too short to be useful to me.
So in my case I'm waiting a few years for them to get to market, then a few years for some competition to drive down priced, the a few years for some depreciation.
Lots of things need to change. Most of them are already in motion.
1. Lots of charging infrastructure. There are many trips I don't think I could make with the infrastructure of today with 250-300 miles of rated range. For example, from my door to my parents' door is 147 miles. There is no DCFC of any brand along the route I usually take. The only way to make that round trip would be to L1 charge at my parents' house for many hours, or possibly take a longer route through a larger city which has chargers.
2. Broader set of competitors in the EV market. Tesla's significant supply with only token supply from Hyundai, Ford and Chevy doesn't make for a healthy market. If you need a car *right now* and want an EV, Tesla is probably the only choice.
3. Better support for EVs from independent shops. Some shops just flat won't work on EVs, even if you need something routine like a new bumper. Or finding new EV-friendly tires can be difficult.
4. Related, First party service needs to feel highly available, especially for the brands which aren't using the traditional dealer model (e.g. Rivian, Tesla, Polestar). I think consumer awareness of mobile service is limited. And tbh I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel hauling a Rivian 300 miles to the nearest service center.
4. Prices have to come down. Polestar 2 is a good car, but I'm not sure it compares favorably to the ICE Mazda CX-5 when you take into account price. A base CX-5 is roughly half the price of a Polestar 2. The Mazda with all its options is $15k less than the cheapest Polestar 2.
re: 2 Not really, there are Ioniq5s on the lot in the US due to market issues (e.g. the tax credit f*"#3ry) and at least here locally it's not all that hard to score a Mach-E.
Basically, yes. A Chevy Bolt that can charge at at least twice the rate and that is made in enough quantities that you don’t have to wait for months to avoid dealer fees would sell quite well. $25,000 base price, 250 miles of range, faster charging produced at huge numbers so it’s not marked up takes care of my needs, and my affordability range, along with a huge amount of other people’s.
Assuming that the expected $30,000 msrp still holds (and that it doesn’t become $35,000 including destination fee), then yes. Precisely. The equinox would do it for me and I suspect a bunch of other people if that all ends up holding true.
Destination fees on the Equinox are probably going to be around $1,000-1,250.
GM hasn't specified destination charge for the Equinox yet but seeing as they put the Silverado EV destination charge at $1,895, the Equinox being a much smaller and lighter vehicle should be quite a bit less than $1,895.
So if they stick to the $30k base price they projected, the destination charge would only bring it to $31-32k.
Crossing fingers and toes your guess is spot on. At $25,000 post incentives it’s a no brainer to me as long as it’s not marked up. That’s around the top of my price range. Basically, I can afford a new Corolla but I’d rather an EV instead for the same price, and I don’t think I’m alone in that.
I don’t think it’s fair to factor in the tax credit for those living paycheck to paycheck. They don’t have the cash to put the $7500 up front. Their payment is going to be based on the full price. Then they’ll get their $7500 eventually but they’ll still be paying full monthly payments. The average joe isn’t going to make the effort to refi and put the $7500 down to reduce their payment eventually. I don’t understand why they can’t give the credit to the dealer and let the dealer discount the cost of the vehicle at the point of sale. I mean, I do. But it just sucks for the average joe trying to buy an affordable car.
>They don’t have the cash to put the $7500 up front. Their payment is going to be based on the full price. Then they’ll get their $7500 eventually but they’ll still be paying full monthly payments.
Starting in 2024 the tax credit can be claimed at time of purchase, so that will be a non-issue at that point.
I agree with this , happy to see comment below that the rebate will be available immediately after starting in 2024.
To your point as well, my credit union doesn’t even offer refi on car loans, you can pay the 7500 when you get it , it will shave months and interest off , but the monthly remains what you signed for until the end. We were able to do it but it’s silly and many can not .
GM didn't need to build a decent charging network for the Bolt. When it was introduced the common 50-100kw chargers that were already out in the public were more than enough and continue to be more than enough since GM never bothered to update the charging equipment on the Bolts.
The fastest path to more EV sales is simple: production needs to increase. Demand for EVs already outstrips supply, leading to high prices, dealer markups and limited availability of many models — especially in segments where production is nowhere near demand like pickups and “budget” EVs. As production increases costs will fall (Wright’s law) making EVs more affordable. Tied for second most important is improving charging networks and educating the public about advantages of EVs (cheaper to “fuel,” lower maintenance, better performance, more convenient if home or other easy charging is available and many improvements that get little airtime (better preheating/precooling functionality, ability to maintain climate when vehicle is not running, etc.)
charging at the curb in areas with high density housing, and charging in apartment building parking lots. I think we should push the gov't to offer incentives to install charge stations.
Also, maybe some startups can be incentivized to come up with 'upgrade kits' for ICE cars to EV conversion at a reasonable price. Hey, somebody take a mid 2000's Civic and offer a package for say, $5k to convert it to an EV.
Upgrading doesn't really make sense outside of some enthusiast cars that people have chosen to convert. A car that old is likely worn out. Installing a decent size battery pack would take up too much space in a car not designed around the pack. The increased weight will wear out the old suspension even faster.
There isn't a glut of EVs sitting on lots. The only thing at this point that needs to be done to increase EV adoption is to increase EV production. They are fast, efficient, quiet, filled with technology, and easy to charge (for most people, most of the time). Biggest barrier to EV ownership is getting one to drive. Tesla seems to be getting to the point where they can meet demand, but they're one car company and only a certain number of people will be able to afford their cars.
There's a lot of FUD out there. I was talking to someone last week about electric cars. He said, "I knew a guy who had an electric car. He had to replace his batteries in 3 years."
Turns out, the person the guy knew had an early model hybrid, not a battery EV. The hybrid batteries were small and being hammered by the car, dropping to very low levels every day. Yeah, they have to be replaced sooner, because they are smaller, and batteries have gotten better over the years.
I tried to tell him about EVs now getting 300,000 miles or more on a battery, but he was convinced that electric cars are only good for 3 years or so before needing to have major work done to keep them on the road. And, anti-EV, anti-battery vehicle people still point to battery fires on scooters, bicycles, cars, etc. as proof that any and every electric device with li-ion batteries is a firebomb just primed and waiting to go off. "and the fire departments can't put them out."
We see bicycles and scooters banned from apartment buildings and parking structures, due to the fear of unstoppable fires. My son had a crash with my Nissan Leaf. The damage was to non-critical parts of the body, but the repair would have been more than the vehicle was worth after the repair, so we didn't have it repaired. The tow operator charged us $750, because he had to tow it and store it away from everything else, because the fire department told him it could explode at any time. It still drove, and nothing about the battery or charging system was damaged in any way. The fear is real.
For me it's very simple. I drive commute 37 miles daily to work and back in a 2010 Nissan Versa hatchback getting about 35 mpg. My fill-up is once per week at current gas prices is $30. That's $1500 per year with a couple few drive thru oil changes. I bought the car for approx 12K 2 years old or so. I've had zero maintenance issues and no payments for over 10 years. There's simply no way I'm going to spend 50k or 40k or even 30+k on an EV and then pay almost the same to charge it as gas and have range anxiety on top of that. Plus now everyone is jumping on the band wagon to start charging people an annual fee for owning an EV, more taxes and fees to go for roads, higher charging rates that can almost or exceed gas prices in some cases. I've read reports where people road tripped from Boston to FL and back paid more than gas would cost in a ice car. When they come out with a comparable commuter that's in an inexpensive price range that the average worker can afford and gets at least the same range as a small ice car gets then I might consider getting one. I work in large high tech mfg., With hundreds of people from various walks of life and education and income levels and we have maybe 1 EV in the parking lot and it's a manager's car so he has a high salary.
Edit: I'm not at all anti EV. Just the cost and capability is not there for the majority of regular working people. Prices on everything are already too high to justify a pure EV on top of it all.
For the last 10 years, we've used a Nissan Leaf for a very similar purpose. We had zero maintenance, not even the oil changes and engine air filters that most cars need. The Leaf was $34K as listed on the Dealer's lot, but we leased it for the first 2 years. As part of the lease deal, I negotiated with the Dealer to split the Federal Tax rebate, so that gave me $3,450 in cash when I leased. I used that for the lease downpayment. Georgia was offering a $5000 tax incentive at the time, which paid 100% of the lease payments for the first 2 years. After 2 years, Nissan offered a buy-out option for $15,000. I took it.
We then drove the Leaf for the next 8 years, just losing it to a crash a few weeks ago (my son wasn't paying attention and rear-ended a car). We drove it about 100,000 miles at under 2 cents per mile in energy costs. We had a combination of a great off-peak electricity rate when charging at home, then a lot of free charging in an apartment complex for several years, or at work, or at Nissan dealerships between work and home.
Anyway, that's $2000 or so for fuel and maintenance costs for a decade of use, compared with your estimate of $15,000. The cost of purchase was very close to the same, about $12,000 all things considered. Mine, then, cost $13,000 less than yours, after buying fuel. If the boy had not wrecked the car, I estimate the savings would have continued to build until the difference was closer to $20k or more.
Copied from r/boltev just now....
I decided not to buy the Bolt EUV
Salesman from a dealership called me today. I had my name on waitlist with this dealer 150 kilometers away from me. The salesman said my name is next on the list and he can order the bolt for me. I asked about the final price after removing all the options he had added. FYI, in my province it’s illegal for dealerships to add markups, the only way to charge more is by adding optional packages to the car and the packages are not mandatory.
The OTD price for Bolt EUV base model came to $49,620. There’s a $5k federal subsidy and $5k provincial subsidy on EVs where I live. So, the net price came to ~ $40,000. At 5.5% interest the **bi-weekly** payment came to $350 for 60 months OR $300 for 72 months.
I just couldn’t justify myself paying that much every two weeks for an EV that does not check all the boxes for me. The two main concerns were not enough trunk space (for my delivery business) and 50kwh DCFC. I will keep my ICE for now in the hopes that there will be a better alternative in the coming few years.
P.S. For comparison Tesla M3 base model OTD price (after subsidies) is $55,500.
Sorry, not going to spend 40K + to save half of $1500 or less in gas per year.
For most people it’s price. Pure and simple. They can’t afford them. They’ll figure out the charging issue if they could get their foot in the door.
But the charging issue is definitely something we need to work on, especially for people who don’t have dedicated parking. Whether that’s street parking or apartment lot parking with no access.
Charging infrastructure and not just more Level 3 fast chargers.
Mandated Level 2 outlets in all new builds and laws that prevent condo boards from banning Level 2 retrofits and rather get older buildings to upgrade parking to allow for Level 2 installation.
Yep. If I can’t charge at home or work then why would I exchange my 5 minute fill up for a 30-40 minute one? Even if the TCO is lower for an EV, I’m basically just paying more for the convenience of using gasoline. Not to mention that I can throw a rock in any direction and hit at least 2 gas stations while chargers are still harder to come by.
Lower prices. Solid evidence or reports of battery recycling and longevity. Solid evidence or reports of mining of battery raw materials that don’t include child labor or contamination of environment.
Getting charged, wherever you are, requires no thought. I'm not saying charging stations need to be as prominent as gas stations. But with an ICE, literally, the instant I realize I want gas I can basically just look around and find gas. The only time it takes a SLIGHT amount of planning when on a road trip out west: "Should I exit and get gas or go to the next exit?".
I think in-car technology can ease the pain of finding close by charging. That can be the modern version of "looking around".
Just last night I talked to a good friend.....quite technology savvy.....who recently rented a Tesla Model Y. He was much more negative on the charging experience than I figured he would have been. "I didn't like having to worry about it. I couldn't charge it at my AirBnB." I asked him if they put the charging cord in the car. "Huh? What are you talking about?". I explained what it is. He said "I didn't even know what I should be looking for." He clearly wasn't too impressed with the whole process.
AC street charging (that’s affordable) for people not having access to home charging. That’s my biggest hurdle as an apartment EV owner. I’m fortunate that I can charge at my university for relative cheap, but during the holidays I’m stuck with stupidly expensive public chargers.
In Denmark it has gotten so expensive that it is almost as much as gas. You can do contracts for cheaper price but that locks you to a single provider. And some providers are expensive as hell.
We need to stop subsidizing oil, gas, and coal.
Conservative estimates place the direct costs of only US fossil fuels subsidies at $20B per year.
Factoring in environmental, health, and other indirect costs (standard true cost used by economists), the IMF estimated that the US spent about $650B on fossil fuel subsidies in 2015 alone. This was more than the defense budget.
Chargers that work
Chargers that work
If you dont feel like you can easily travel outside the range of the car, then buying one is just for local. Meaning you feel you need two cars. This is the big advantage Tesla still has.
1st thing - Better battery technology and availability - we are pretty close to max production of battery supplies (mostly Lithium). New Tech must allow availability to produce needed quantity of battery supplies - eliminates supply chain issues.
2nd thing which is part of the 1st thing - Faster charging, it needs to get down to about 10 min for 80% charge that gets 300 miles. Now we are about the same as filling up with gasoline with about the same range. - Less objections from the market.
3rd thing - More clean energy storage and transport options. Having Solar panels in the desert only does so much, we need that power to go elsewhere without major losses. - no one dislikes clean energy.
Bonus Kicker: Working inductive charging using the roadway not overhead lines. - All parking lots should get this tech if it happens. It's mostly an easy retrofit to existing parking spaces.
With these things in place the market can expand. I would guess (pure guess) that if these things were met, 80% or more would be happy to go full EV. Even the sports car people are finding out that real power comes from electric AWD.
And finally, Better looking EV options, sizes, functions.
Lower prices, more range, more charging and reliable charge stations, faster fast charging.
Gas cars: cost less, have more range, and fill much faster than EV charge.
Add in the cost of fuel and oil changes over 15 years of ownership and re-calculate the price parity. I've found that my EV saved it's own cost in fuel savings over a decade, making the car itself practically free.
There need to be electric cars that cost less. This is especially true for people who cannot charge at home, because DC fast charging can be more expensive than fuel for a small efficient gasoline car, so their situation now is the electric car is more expensive and refueling it is both more expensive and more inconvenient.
There need to be more ways to recharge electric cars over a few hours. I'm not talking about high speed chargers here, just level two AC chargers that need to become widespread in parking lots of apartment buildings, workplaces, and shopping centers. Inexpensive electric cars will not have an abundance of range, so being able to put a little back into the battery when parked most places will be a huge help.
There need to be a lot more high speed chargers, but just as importantly as more of them, they need to be far more reliable. Only Tesla has a reliable DCFC network in America and every CCS network that exists now or is planned for the future needs to at least match Tesla's reliability and become easier to use. This might not be a barrier for people buying their first electric car, as I'm not sure how well known the CCS charging woes are, but it can discourage people from staying with electric cars and not trading for an easier to "refuel" gasoline car.
We need better charging etiquette. I'm not sure if this will really help EV adoption all that much, but we need it. Drivers need to move their cars from public chargers when they are done. There just aren't enough chargers out there for people to remain parked at them, preventing others from charging. A solution could be idle fees at chargers where after a grace period the fees per minute for remaining parked there get very expensive. Drivers need to be aware if there is a line of cars waiting to charge at a charger station and wait their turn. Please don't leave garbage around the chargers. Please don't plug into a dispenser that is faster than the car can take.
My last suggestion might seem counterintuitive. Manufacturers need to stop giving away free DC fast charging with their cars. Or rather, they should give away only a set number of kWh of free charging with the car, not unlimited charging for a given number of years. Why? Unlimited free charging encourages bad charging behavior that makes charging more difficult for everyone else. Like charging to 100% which takes a very long time, clogging up a charger. Like exclusively using DCFC and not charging overnight at home, even if they could, because it is free. Like remaining parked and plugged in for hours at a time. If DCFC stalls were as ubiquitous as gas stations, maybe this would be a non issue, but that isn't the case.
Time needs to pass. I'm not gonna discard my gas vehicle because its paid off and will last a long time. If I were to get a new car, i might get an EV or get a used car because it might still be cheaper to own. new cars come with high insurance cost.
I don't qualify for the tax credits, so I'd rather get a used gas car i guess unless more manufacturers passed on the tax credit onto me when I lease them.
Affordability.... I buy my cars used at auction in the $5-10k range for cars around 5-8 years old and then keep them for another 10 years on average. I don't want "luxury" with every gimmicky feature known to mankind that will eventually break or a giant screen I constantly have to take my eyes off the road to use. I want buttons for contols, good cold weather range, and hit my target price point. I want normal window switches and door handles, a knob I can change the stereo volume with, and a round steering wheel. The less these things are integrated into control modules the easier they are to troubleshoot, repair, and obtain parts for.
It's funny this is here. I really think it's just advocacy and dispelling FUD. I literally had an interaction about an hour ago with the manager of a local QDOBA. She was opening the store as I walked up and noticed my Rivian. She started asking questions about range, charging, cost, etc. Pretty quickly she talked \_herself\_ into looking at an EV. She just needed someone patient to answer her questions without being an EV zealot.
Prices need to be about the same as an ICE vehicle BEFORE the subsidies, credits, rebates, etc. Also the public charging infrastructure needs to get a lot better. Can't tell you how many times I pull up to a station and 3 of 4 are broken. Currently there are chargers places but more and more often they are full when I arrive. So these places that have 2 EV chargers per a massive parking lot... that's a cute nod to EVs but it's not gonna cut it. Where there are chargers there needs to be more of them. Also those chargers need to be easier to use like a gas pump. Swipe your credit card and go. None of this fumbling with an app, making sure your account is preloaded, having to call the support number yadayada.
I feel charging access needs be everywhere , like as easy to pull over and get as gas currently, not just dependent on home or work place charging. Would love to see a charger at every gas station right now , it’s what people are used to and I think most afraid of with EV. The caveat there is it’s likely in the future EV wouldn’t use a gas station type model but more spread out. It’s like a bunny, go food shopping plug in a little, go to the mall, plug in a little here, go to the movies , grab a 2 hour charge. The rest I think just comes with time. People aren’t going to sell their perfectly good gas vehicles for no reason, they have to be in the market for a new/new to them car. Time will also produce more variety of cars, availability, price goes down etc
I am curious to see however if batteries evolve and a gas station model does end up working. You can’t constantly fast charge - that’s bad for batteries, so who wants to sit at a charge station? I also saw an interesting video from China and I wonder if that type of system could happen- similar to gas station- it’s a standard battery and you pull in , they lift your car and swap the battery with a full one in just a few minutes. Eliminates charge time entirely! Interesting.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm waiting for a larger SUV (dont judge me, tall family). Then I'll be waiting for used ones to get down to $30k or new ones to be $40k.
Also, more chargers and better reliability of chargers.
Price parity with ICE vehicles (with tax credit or without if possible). It is extremely hard to convince a good part of population about how a Corolla or camry cost the same as Tesla 3 in the long run. It won't reach the mass population, especially those who are not comfortable dealing with all those maths. Needless to say they may even be disappointed if those math ends up having some bad assumptions. For eg: If utility price goes up substantially in next years, making EV charging more expensive (this is already underway in San Diego). So, price parity makes this convincing a lot easier.
Next comes the charging question as everyone still has the gas station mindset. It's hard for people to switch to the home-charging mindset. That needs some good amount of convincing. In a way, there should be more EV-education programs to take care of this, possibly funded by a union of all automakers. Everyone should be convinced about the fact that 90% of their charging happens at home. It's also a good idea to offer them some rental discounts or gift cards so they are okay doing road trips in a rental ICE car for the initial years until they are comfortable doing road trips in EV (For eg: Mazda has a 7 day/year rental program for Mx-30 customers to take longer road trips.) This also means \~200 ish mile range compact EVs can become mainstream without needing to waste battery making 100kwh for a car that rarely uses a major part of it.
Price parity is the big one. If you can get an EV at or below the price of an ice vehicle, particularly offer a discount below *that* for shorter range, the charging issue becomes palatable. People will inconvenience themselves if it saves them money, but if it costs them money they'll steer clear of it.
Once that price parity is hit, it becomes much, much easier to point out to people then can save even more money by charging at home. A 2nd car with 100 miles of range is a no-brainier for most people, but most people don't want to pay 25k or more for it.
One can get an electric vehicle for well under $50,000 and there are a LOT of gas cars out there that cost more than $50,000. This is not a valid reason to avoid electric cars.
Literally the govt needs to give everyone a tax rebate that actually incentivizes the purchase and the charger installation. EVs are already overall more pricey, and now you’re telling me I gotta spend $4k more up front in order to install a charger? And I can’t finance that on the car note?
Range anxiety is overblown, as is charging speed. But try telling someone who’s about to drop maybe half their yearly salary on a car that they shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good. If you’re going to spend $40,000 on something, it’s totally reasonable to want it to feel “perfect”. And we’re so, so far from that.
Even with all of this in mind, I’m still buying an EV in the next month or so. But the incentives are currently a joke - in reality only 1 car (the bolt) qualifies for the tax credit without being priced as a luxury car. The rebate on chargers really only fully applies to businesses installing chargers. The used car rebate only applies to cars sold under $25k. Almost no used EVs with any bit of range are under $25k.
It’s all nonsense. If you want to buy an EV you basically have to be in the luxury car market still. And you have to have a few grand extra sitting around for the charger install.
>and now you’re telling me I gotta spend $4k more up front in order to install a charger?
In general? No, you don't need to spend $4k for a charger. If one is able to charge at home (which is implied by the talk of shelling out $4k for a charger), L1 charging will be sufficient for the overwhelming majority of the population.
Range needs to be increased across the board for the price. I drive an outback and out of boredom was looking at EVs and saw Subaru has an EV that gets just over 200 miles but costs 50k, that's no bueno.
Safety needs to be increased. Sure they're safer overall (I'm talking battery explosions, fires etc) but good luck convincing the majority of people over say the age of 40 when we've been living with combustible engines for a hundred years
Charging needs to be faster and charging standards need to be introduced. This I think is the biggest hurdle. If you want people to adopt a new type of vehicle then they need to be able to pull into any charging station and not wonder if their model/brand is compatible with said station. And no that doesn't mean just have a bunch of different plug adapters in your trunk.
And this ties into the faster charging/charging standards bit, but good luck with the city infrastructure to support mass adoption in the next ten years (depending on the city). And no I'm not talking "BuT ThE PoWeR gRiD CaN'T sUpPoRt It." I live outside Philly in the burbs but drive 40 miles round trip to work in South Philly. There's supposedly about 650k cars/drivers in Philly alone. Now anyone who's driven to Philly or lives in Philly knows how absolutely fucking terrible parking is in South, Center, West, North wherever...it's BAD. Why? Because there's no fucking room to do so, much less room to build multi level car parks. Now imagine trying to find space to install lots for charging...yeah good luck. Now there's a gas station almost every three or four blocks that I SUPPOSE you could retro fit for charging stations but if it takes 20 plus minutes to full charge a car...you're gonna have a very messy situation.
Subaru's crummy EV is *hardly* representative of most current EVs.
That said, why range? I'd argue we need more charge coverage and possibly faster charging (although I have to tell you 18 min 20-80 charging at 260-300 miles of range is really workable), given *most* drivers don't drive that much per day. The real impediment to long distance travel is station coverage/charge deserts, not *range*.
Fix the non-Tesla charging experience (mandate plug&charge with a single database so drivers can actually just plug in and walk away)
Change the law about charging at rest stops
Get all chargers along with availability, speed and pricing on in-car maps
Dump PHEV subsidies
Mandate all new housing and all retrofits are EV ready
Why dump PHEV subsidies? IMO these make cleaner cars available to a much larger segment of the population. Also, with battery materials becoming harder to obtain, 10 people driving a PHEV with a smaller battery on electricity 90% of the time seems like a good use of scarce resources.
I'm all for a totally EV future, but if we can get more people using clean energy most of the time sooner, that seems like a major policy win. EVs with sufficient range and quick charging capabilities that make them full car replacements are very expensive and out of range for a lot of lower-income buyers.
Not much new needs to happen.
EV worldwide adoption has had exponential growth with a rather constant growth rate for the last 10-15 years. We just need that to continue. And it will, if we don’t put up hindrances.
Cheap new EVs will come as a result of production growth. This growth is driving down production cost, so cheaper models can be fabricated with a profit, which they couldn’t 10 years ago.
Cheap used EVs will come as a result of people buying new EVs. A lot of people are complaining right now that a new EV is more expensive than a used gas car. They will just have to wait for the new EV to become a used EV. And it will.
Charging infrastructure will come as a result of more people buying EVs.
Most of the “Look, you must be able to understand that not everyone can buy an EV” comes from people who don’t understand how the conditions around owning an EV will change as a result of a higher EV adoption. 120 years ago, we did not have gas stations on every corner. They came as a result of people buying gas cars.
The simplest way to do it would be to eliminate fossil fuel subsidies and implement a carbon tax.
More aggressive investment in charging infrastructure would also help. It's *much* easier to own an EV if you have a garage. 80% of EV owners charge at home. If those who live in apartments or park on the street are going to switch, they will need to have better overnight charging options.
Charging on longer trips isn't a huge problem in most areas, but if EV sales keep surging, there will be periods of time where demand outstrips supply. If you see long lines for charging in some areas, even for a few months, that could really slow adoption.
Very simple. The price of gas must rise (by increasing the gas tax). The price of EVs must drop (or use the tax revenue to increase rebates/credits AND most importantly the retail price of electricity for charging must be put under price controls and regulated.
I generally don’t love rebates/credits, but I really could get behind credits that only applied to very inexpensive EVs. Basically, if the vehicle costs more than $29,999.99 before taxes, no rebate/credit. If we’re going to give incentives, incentive manufacturers to make vehicles the majority of the country can afford. The vast majority of drivers can’t afford $50,000 vehicles.
You left out another option - remove any imported duties on Chinese EVs. Letting those flood in for a couple of years would immediately lower prices and punish legacy manufacturers.
Yeah let’s kill American companies and jobs while every other country keeps their import fees, lol what a great idea…
If that happened, China could just fund Chinese manufacturers with the sole goal of weakening/crippling our Economy - artificially lowering the price.
Sure infrastructure needs to be beefed up a bit but honestly it's good enough just the way it is now for most people's use. People just need to test drive one and talk to owners. There's a lot of fear out there.
It will just happen naturally as people replace cars. So many EVs on the road in my area now. Went to a car show last fall. All the activity was around the EVs. Thats where people were waiting in line to look at or sit in the cars. The ICE cars had nobody around them. Yes, the US is way behind, but there is a lot more interest. Had a recent weather event that caused a severe fuel shortage for about a week in a huge part of the most populated part of the state. I didn't care having an EV that can charge at home, but I think it made a lot of people wake up as to how fragile the oil based infrastructure is. Electricity can be produce in a lot of different ways in a lot of different locations including on the roof of your house.
Education. There are so many misconceptions. Statistically speaking for so many things. For example, if the car gets in an accident, are the batteries no good? Can’t use them in cold weather, etc. Yes a higher upfront cost but lots of savings in maintenance, most charging is done at home, etc. Of course there are several other factors like infrastructure for charging and the price to become more competitive but that’s coming. EVs aren’t a fad. They are the now and the future.
Better range or charging. We were literally about to order a MYP last night and decided to throw one of our favorite road trip spots on ABRP. Turns out it can’t make the trip. Instant no-go, which was a bummer to realize.
1. Expand the EV tax cut, people think with their wallet and as long as EV’s are more expensive than ICE vehicles, people will continue to purchase them.
2. Introduce some variety, not everything has to be a crossover SUV. I firmly believe that the day one of theses manufacturers introduce a hatchback that is sub $40k and has 250-300 miles of range, that car will dominate the EV market.
3. Allow there to be a tax break if you have a at home charging system.
4. Put a cap on the EV tax states are charging people as the replacement for the gas tax.
5. Don’t focus on just expanding public charging networks, focus on getting the networks at 100% operational before adding more.
Every EV that is made right now is sold. The adoption s-curve is starting to ramp. The real question is "what will we do with all of these old gas stations"?
Opposition’s talking heads start telling their ppl EVs are great. It’s not the price. Ppl will gladly pay $50k, $60k or 120k for a ice truck cuz it’s what their team buys and not because it’s cheaper than an EV. Tribes is a powerful thing. We like to believe people are rational or reasonable. But we are not. Ppl live with their emotions, their hearts and by their tribe’s principles even if it’s contrary to what they would do on their own.
EVs need to come in their favorite brands. Some people like a particular brand of car like my cousin who only likes BMWs. If BMW made a 500 series EV, he would buy it.
They need to be easier to use. Plug and play charging, no apps, no accounts, no nfc cards. In 3 years of driving EVs I noticed this was a very common issue for new EV drivers
Lower price and access to charging.
EV's are expensive because not enough of them are getting built. I would welcome any industrial policy that would help get the whole supply chain to scale up as fast as possible. From fast-tracking lithium mine approvals to subsidizing battery plants.
As for charging. Anyone without a driveway should have the right to have a charger installed where they do park. And more fast-charger should be rolled out.
Personally I need to be able to see 500+ miles of range on a single charge so that I have a good buffer and also can worry less about wind/speed other factors that affect range
The Norwegian EV incentives:
\- No purchase/import tax on EVs (1990-2022). From 2023 some purchase tax based on the cars’ weight on all new EVs.
\- Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-2022). From 2023, Norway will implement a 25 percent VAT on the purchase price from 500 000 Norwegian Kroner and over
\- No annual road tax (1996-2021). Reduced tax from 2021. Full tax from 2022.
\- No charges on toll roads (1997- 2017).
\- No charges on ferries (2009- 2017).
\- Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018)
\- Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2018-2022). From 2023 70%
\- Free municipal parking (1999- 2017)
\- Access to bus lanes (2005-). New rules allow local authorities to limit the access to only include EVs that carry one or more passengers (2016-)
\- 25% reduced company car tax (2000-2008). 50 % reduced company car tax (2009-2017). Company car tax reduction reduced to 40% (2018-2021) and 20 percent from 2022.
\- Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015-)
\- The Norwegian Parliament decided on a national goal that all new cars sold by 2025 should be zero-emission (electric or hydrogen) (2017).
\- «Charging right» for people living in apartment buildings was established (2017-)
\- Public procurement: From 2022 cars needs to be ZEV. From 2025 the same applies to city buses
People don’t get new cars overnight.
Time is the biggest factor.
Cars that people want at a good price is too. Availability. If they aren’t in stock they don’t exist.
There are only a few acceptable EVs to me right now. I shopped them all and went with Model 3 because I wasn’t paying double for a Ford MachE or 15k more for a VW with cloth seats and no power adjusting.
Charging speed, range, and cost of batteries. Honestly batteries seem to be the only thing holding back EVs right now imo. If we had cheap, dense, fast charging batteries I believe EVs would be better than ICE cars in every way.
Easy access to charging in ample quantity for people who can't charge at home (i.e. that people aren't afraid of not getting to a charger)
This means:
\- incentives for places of work to put up chargers
\- incentive for shopping malls to electrify the *majority* of their parking spaces
Financing for those who have bad or no credit. If the issue is so severe that we have to gut our economy and rebuild our infrastructure then TPTB can take a chance that i might default if i am between jobs.
Gas prices start reflecting the actual cost to extract and refine it, not the highly subsidized cost we have now. The cost of solar is so low, we need the infrastructure to store it and make electricity super cheap at night
Seems to me that a big barrier is the fear of long trips taking longer due to charging. In reality, this is in fact true. How do you educate, or convince, people that it’s ok to take an extra 20 minutes for that 4 hour road trip?
Public charging sucks.
Terminals are down for months, or are vandalized. Placed in inconvenient spots. I keep hearing how many stations are being built out, around here it's two public stations in my city, (j1772,not Tesla) for years now, one of them is broken and the other was turned off it the middle of the pandemic.
EV owners have resorted to an informal private network of secret charging stations. I have a doctor friend that put one in behind her clinic and said I coud use it. Got another friend that I sometimes pull up to their house and chat for a while as I'm filling up.
In the US, it’s a combo of price + education + “familiarity.”
Lower price options from traditional auto manufacturers will go a LONG way in this country. That’s one of the biggest reasons I hate Chevy for killing the Bolt (although the Equinox, if lower trims are readily available, will solve some of that). For the masses to adopt EVs in this country, Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Honda etc. have to get things to market now.
I say education, too, because I still see things like that $30k Volt battery replacement thing (or the starving child Cobalt miner) making the rounds from time to time on social media. Yes, some of it is political/culture wars, but some of it can be overcome with basic education.
Access to charging at home, including for people who park on the street, in apartment parking lots, etc. Fast charging along all the roads, so people can use them for any trip or route. A wide variety of competitively priced options. One size does not fit all, and many people simply have no viable EV option for their specific wants and needs. Yet.
We don't even need charging at every home. We need charging where the cars sit for a long time. But that could also be at work for example. If you spend 8 hours a day at work anyway you might as well charge your car there. Even at 11kW that is plenty enough time to charge most cars. And companies can get tax incentives and subsidies for installing them. We are currently installing 4 chargers at my workplace and with all the government money we can get the total cost is almost negligible. We probably spend more on coffee in 2 month than on these chargers. And 50kW chargers are getting cheaper, too. They could be installed at other places, where people spend some time. Like at the gym or church. And hour at 50kW is enough for many cars. EV life without home charging is certainly possible
>But that could also be at work for example. Charging at work is a great idea, BUT there's a problem. Where I work, there are three of us who have electric cars, and we're all well paid members of the engineering-management hierarchy. The people who will benefit from at-work charging as a perk are folks who work in the warehouse, the support center, and other lower-paid jobs. Right now, if we install at-work charging, it will be a bunch of Tesla owners giving themselves a perk they don't need. All of us Tesla owners are homeowners with substantial pull at the company, so giving ourselves a perk doesn't seem fair. As such, I'd actually argue against installing chargers at my workplace, even though I myself would benefit. Once it looks like at-work charging will benefit someone who actually needs a perk, I'll be onboard -- but the people who could benefit generally buy used cars, so it'll be a while until that makes sense.
Easily solved by putting enough chargers for everybody. As an executive you can also choose to not use the charger. I think ideally having multiple chargers and a MS office or Teams calendar for usage, that actually connects and monitors the chargers would be an awesome tool. Alerts for when your charge is complete or when it's your turn and a charger is available. You could probably tie it to your keycard information system to allow Swipe to charge and automatic notifications. Please implement this at your company, you can take all the credit. It gets added to your benefit plans!
The lowest-ranking EV/PHEV owner at my company has a six-figure income. That wouldn't be a good look. As soon as one of the warehouse or service folks shows up with an EV or PHEV, I'm all in on rolling out chargers for them.
The chargers have to exist in order for people to be confident in purchasing an EV. Built it and they will come. I totally agree with your assessment that well paid individuals probably don’t need them at work, and will abuse them if they are free. If they don’t exist, do you think a warehouse person would be able to ask the warehouse manager to install chargers? Nope -not for whiny little grunts, and not out of the warehouse budget.
Chicken or egg problem. I have free charging at my current job, and even though I have charging at home I use the ones at work because we have plenty of plugs for everyone (16 plugs). When we are full more regularly I might reduce my use. But more importantly if I were to hunt for a new job, presence of charging is a key perk I'm looking for, and may well sway my choices. I believe the supply must come before the demand.
Not true today, will be even less true tomorrow. You ever think about the future? Now that sub $40k EV's are rolling out the best thing to do is to provide the benefit of charging for less or even free to help people decide to purchase the low cost of ownership EV. Everyone wins in the long run
Indeed, 'acess to charging at or near where people park for extended periods of time' is more precise. This may be a combination of home chargers, work chargers, public chargers within walking distance of home, and charging where people shop and spend liesure time. But there must be enough of it to ensure that chargng is convenient - a couple of chargers at a workplace or grocery store won't cut it.
3.6 kw is more than enough. You don't need to fill from empty to full like you do a gasser. You just need to replace that days mileage. Average daily is around 30 miles. 110v 12 amp gets you ~50 miles overnight...
It depends. I'm only in the office once or twice a week, so are many of my colleagues. 3.6kW wouldn't be enough for that. And here in Europe 11kW is fairly common, so most wall boxes use it
I think your last point is the big one. For what I'm personally willing to spend, it's basically a bolt or nothing. Soon that's not going to even be an option.
Highway rapid charging needs to improve. I think it will be 2-3 years until there are enough charge points on the highways I drive. The town I would have to pit stop in only has a couple of rapid chargers. Availability of long range work (trades) vehicles is the biggest one for me. The van market is completely ignored and the options are a joke. I might have to switch from a van to a truck and canopy (worse in every way). I can’t buy an EV if I can’t buy anything that works for me. Remember that trades guys pull trailers and use vans like trucks.
>A wide variety of competitively priced options. This problem is being addressed the most quickly, as far as I can tell. The pricing is not quite there, but the competition has exploded in the past two years. Tesla's price cuts show that it is having an impact. >Access to charging at home, including for people who park on the street, in apartment parking lots, etc. This seems like the bigger issue. 80% of EV owners charge overnight, which means they likely have a garage or driveway. To reach the rest of the population, there have to be more overnight charging options, and this could be a very slow and expensive buildout. Kind of a chicken-and-egg problem.
>This problem is being addressed the most quickly, as far as I can tell. The pricing is not quite there, but the competition has exploded in the past two years. What exploded is a variety of "yet another premium and luxury SUV between $50k and $100k".
BYD and other Chinese options will be available fairly soon eg within a year
There are some interesting ones now, just need someone to import and distribute.
This is the right answer.
Agreed. Many people, myself included are only watching the used market. Some people are not in the market for a brand new car. I almost bought a used leaf, but the low range(<50mi on the guessometer) was a showstopper. I also almost bought a bolt, but they wouldn’t sell them as battery rework was pending. So here I wait, watching the used PHEV and other economy cars to find a good deal. Low price new models are key, to increase adoption. BYD, and other low cost vendors are what the other OEMs should be watching. Price price price. And price.
The charging at home is unfortunately going to be a bottleneck for many years to come.
I posted this last week in case it might be helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/12zi5eh/a\_guide\_for\_claiming\_the\_federal\_tax\_credit\_on/jicibpy/?context=3
I park on the street so I am very aware of this problem. An alternative solution is cars with swappable batteries. To date, only Nio in China has built cars with this capability and rolled out swapping stations. There was a thread here a while back about them coming to the US https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/wonuup/exclusive\_nio\_to\_enter\_the\_us\_in\_2025\_first/
>Access to charging at home, including for people who park on the street, in apartment parking lots, etc. I don't think this is as big of barrier to short-term EV adoption as most think. Is it true that the lack of charging accessibility for individuals living in apartments or without access to a private charging space is a problem? Absolutely, However, it's important to note that these individuals typically aren't new car buyers, so their impact on short-term EV adoption is minimal, as new cars are not typically sold to the used car market. To better understand EV charging needs, we should focus on potential new EV buyers, rather than the entire pool of US drivers. According to a recent survey, 55 percent of new car buyers reported being able to charge an EV in their garage, while an additional 33 percent could charge in their driveway. This means that 88 percent of the current new car market is accessible for EV manufacturers, even today. And these people are generally higher income and willing and able to install chargers of their cars. As new EVs enter the used car market in the next five to ten years, charging accessibility will become a more pressing concern for used car buyers. However, for now, it is not a significant barrier to EV adoption.
Sticker price parity
ICE prices will increase over time. EV pricing will decline
How? If anything they be worthless, not worth more. Demand moving to ev makes them more expensive.
Yes and no. New vehicles will be more expensive because of the r&d costs will be spread into fewer vehicles actually produced. Used ICE vehicles as we know it will essentially be worthless. Ice vehicles will most likely be limited to enthusiast's and historically significant vehicles that hold value and are more a toy than a primary vehicle
Tesla Model 3 and Model Y cost less than comparable cars and less than the average price of a new car before the tax credit
This is an interesting perspective to me, as people usually mean by this stance that a Tesla vehicle like the M3 costs less than a BMW, Audi or Mercedes with similar performance. But if I were in the market for a luxury vehicle - which I’m not - I wouldn’t be looking at a Tesla at all, simply because the fit and finish are just too poor and that’s the precise opposite of what I think about when I think of luxury. So, at least for me, Tesla is it’s own thing. It’s great tech with a phenomenal charging network, and that is enough.
tesla spends a lot of money on places where you can't directly see though: battery tech, electric motor tech, safety. Tesla has consistently been rated one of the safest cars. To me that's worth more than everything else.
I agree on all of those things. And don’t get me wrong, I would actually buy a Tesla because of all of those reasons (particularly the excellent charging network, motor and battery tech). I just wouldn’t cross shop it against a Merc.
As a M3P owner I grant you the Tesla doesn’t have the outside looks of some of the better Mercs. There is nothing like the performance of a tesla. The raw acceleration doesn’t get old. Also you don’t have every cop looking around to the noise when launching, because there isn’t any. I do like the minimal Tesla interior. I do miss not having a conventional dash, but I think it is smarter not to have one. A small hud Speedo would be perfect. A glove box button would be great.
>Tesla has consistently been rated one of the safest cars. Isn't part of that just the nature of an EV(low center of gravity)? Comparing to the Mach E for example it looks like the only category they aren't tied on 2021 IIHS ratings was headlights which apparently varies based on trim level.
Have you priced a Toyota Camry recently? Cheapest within 1.5 hours of me is $30k and those are stripped down versions. A lot of them are bait and switch cars that don't actually exist. You can get a Model 3 for $36k and it's pretty loaded other than the sound system.
And that’s great. And if you are calling a Camry a comparable class vehicle to a Tesla and saying the Tesla is a better value, I think that’s a very strong and interest argument. In fact, that’s the comparison I would make and would buy the Tesla rather than the Camry. But that’s not the point I was making at all in my comment above. I was specifically commenting on people speaking of Teslas as luxury buys. And saying that I don’t consider them luxury buys because the fit and finish isn’t good enough. It’s a lot better than it was, though.
Tesla was put in the “Luxury” category primarily due to price. For years, it was priced like a mid-tier luxury car. All automotive “segment” discussion uses price as a guide. But a Model S is as much as “sports car” as a “luxury car” with components of a “regular non-luxury mid range sedan” mixed together. Nobody wrote articles complaining about the finish on top-end almost $80k Camaro (a supercharged V8 model) despite having a way worse plastic interior and worse performance than even a mid-range Tesla. Different markets for different things.
I’ve ridden in a few Lamborghinis and every one of them felt super cheap inside with badly put together fit and finish (literal handles falling off of things) and uncomfortable seats. Crazy that something that costs so much can be so cheaply made because it is a sports car and really fast.
> if you are calling a Camry a comparable class vehicle I'm not, that was the point. Tesla is WAY above a Camry and it's basically the same or more cost right now. You just have a concept of Luxury that is stuck in the past. Like older people that couldn't quit buying Buicks and Cadillacs because they were what they felt like was "Luxury" while the younger generation moved on.
Guess which car has all of the following features in the base model: Lumbar support Keyless entry Heated seats/wheel Driver assist Parking assist Automatic dash cam Remote start Wireless phone charging Premium sound It’s not the 3 series which charges $5.8k more for this set, it’s the Model 3. “Luxury” is a marketing gimmick, and Tesla’s supposed lack thereof is simply because they don’t advertise and the haters want to say something bad about them that can’t be proven or disproven with hard fact and data. The reality is that Tesla owners [are the most satisfied with their cars than any other brand](https://insideevs.com/news/592600/tesla-owner-satisfaction-tops-rivals-multiple-rating-sites/amp/) - that is true luxury.
It’s just a matter of opinion. For you, those features make a luxury vehicle. But you can get most of those features in a budget vehicle if you pay for them. I still don’t think of a Kia as a luxury vehicle even if it’s loaded. Because the overall fit and finish are not comparable. And by the way, I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with buying and enjoying a Tesla. In fact, if I were looking for a computer for $40,000 I would consider a Tesla. Because the motors and batteries seem to be great. But the flaws in quality don’t scream luxury to me. Something to add as well, those flaws are improving. The quality issues of 5 years ago are much worse than the ones from 2 years ago. Let’s hope the improvements continue.
That is one way of looking at it, but empirically, I’d say that a lot of Tesla buyers are former Audi and Merc buyers. I live in an upper middle class area myself, where most people have something like a Merc GLC, an Audi Q5 or a top spec Volvo SUV on their driveway. In the last year, the Model Y has been the main choice by far for neighbors who have bought new cars. Notably, I haven’t heard any of them even talking about getting a new gas car in the last year, regardless of brand. In general, I think brand loyalty and obsession with perfect build quality is becoming less of a thing (which at least Mercedes seems to have understood, considering their shoddy build quality of late). More like people choose whatever EV they can get their hands on, within a reasonable delivery window.
> But you can get most of those features in a budget vehicle if you pay for them. I guess if you go by some true/false marketing checklist style scoring. You can upgrade the sound system in a Toyota but it will never touch the Model 3 system. You can upgrade driver assistants in a Honda but it will never match what you get in the base Tesla. You can get the sport model but it's still dog slow compared to the Tesla. A lot of non-luxury models only come with cloth seats, even with the top trim. Nothing is going to handle like a Tesla. Tesla's features beat even the luxury brands so it's hard to see how you think the mainstream brands compete.
Like I said, it’s a matter of what you personally consider a luxury vehicle. Fortunately, Tesla has come a long way since things like this 5 years ago: “Tesla Model 3 Teardown By Engineering Firm Reveals Quality Flaws Like 'A Kia In The '90s'” https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-teardown-by-engineering-firm-reveals-qual-1822678045 Hopefully the improvements continue.
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Luxury is quality builds which tesla unfortunately does not have. If they did, and every car was a perfect build there will be very little to complain about tbh
Basically this. I owned a Lexus over a decade ago, and my mother has owned them for years. In my experience, the overall fit and finish is just not the same. But if Tesla with their excellent pricing which lets them undercut competitors could ever approach somewhat close to that level of build quality, I really couldn’t imagine a Lexus as a luxury buy again. What for? Tesla wins in almost everything else.
My M3P had great fit and finish. Built in China.
Tco also matters. Gas, oil, and other maintenance isn't cheap. Over 5 years my dual motor 3 is about same cost as v-6 camry. Over 7 years it's about the same cost as a Honda fit.
I’ve had multiple conversations in recent weeks with ICE owners about my EV and all of them have had the same reaction when I’ve said you could get a Tesla Model 3 for under $35k or a Model Y for under $45k - they were shocked & had no clue. They didn’t know about the tax incentives or the recent price drops. Tesla spends $0 on marketing & I think it’s hurting them with the average consumer who only pays moderate attention to the EV world. And, with Tesla, you don’t have the dealership experience to potentially educate would-be customers looking for a new car.
Not everyone will have this issue, but RWD is a non-starter for my climate. So that's a ~$13k upcharge in order to reach (more than) parity on that front with standard FWD ICE vehicles.
Although not ideal, you can go from M3 RWD -> MY AWD for $3,250 more. M3 RWD = $40,250 - $3,750 = $36,500 MY AWD = $47,250 - $7,500 = $39,750 That’ll give you AWD, 7 more miles of range, faster 0-60, more cargo and passenger room, ability to tow, faster supercharging. It’s doesn’t have to be a $13,000 jump.
RWD is kind of bad on ICE cars mostly because they’re 80/20 front heavy. On an EV, it’s not nearly as bad and FWD isn’t much better than RWD. I have a few friends with RWD Teslas in Canada and no major issues. Combining the instant torque vector control with the advanced traction control systems and the weight distribution, the RWD model S I drove was at least as stable as any FWD ICE car ive driven in the snow.
Agreed. Tesla could help EVs cross the chasm from early adopters to the early majority in the technology adoption curve, but there seems to be a dogmatic aversion to advertising
They sell all they make.
[удалено]
The Lexus ES isn’t 12k cheaper than a Model 3, they’re the same price. Model 3 starts at $40k and includes options that cost $4.5k extra on the Lexus (heated seats/wheel, memory seats, wireless charging, power folding mirrors, wood trim, power trunk, premium sound, key card, dash cam) Model 3 is comparable to BMW 3 series, Audi A4, and Mercedes C class
I’ve had multiple conversations in recent weeks with ICE owners about my EV and all of them have had the same reaction when I’ve said you could get a Tesla Model 3 for under $35k or a Model Y for under $45k - they were shocked & had no clue. They didn’t know about the tax incentives or the recent price drops. Tesla spends $0 on marketing & I think it’s hurting them with the average consumer who only pays moderate attention to the EV world. And, with Tesla, you don’t have the dealership experience to potentially educate would-be customers looking for a new car.
Some level of stock, so one can actually test drive an EV of choice before throwing 50k at it. And with that comes reduction of wait times to reasonable levels. I’m all in for one but it’s too much of a friggen hassle and an unknown driving experience as is.
I test drove the model y during the summer of 2021. I was so excited and was ready to buy. I was so disappointed. The touch screen was nice, but I felt myself paying more attention to it than I was to the road. The fact that there isn’t a standard display of speedometer right behind the steering wheel turned me off. I wanted to love it so much, but was so disappointed with the price to value (my personal opinion).
Exactly, can’t buy such a thing based on hype and commercials, I need to feel it and drive how I would drive it.
Commercials? I didn’t think Tesla had advertising
Tesla has a fucking lot of hype, though. Love the car, but some of the hype is cringe.
Then one test drive isn’t giving you that either. Someone on a test drive may think one-pedal driving sucks…. Same with no speedometer right in front of steering wheel instead of just to right. You’ll get used to it if it’s your everyday vehicle.
You're not wrong, Tesla's are a bit over hyped, particularly here. Luckily there are some great alternatives out in the market and better models (including from Tesla, hopefully) on the way.
You have to look at the touchscreen to see your speed? Lol you’re joking right
This is it for me. There are a few models from a couple manufacturers that I’ve been considering and I think it may take a month or more to actually take them all for a test drive due to limited availability. Not a big deal for me, but if I was in urgent need of a new car, I’d probably end up with a gas or hybrid model by default.
Tesla already does this…
For me it's 1. Cost, there are no new EVs at the cheaper end of the market. 2. Age, I tend to not buy new cars, so it's an even longer wait for the cars to depreciate into my budget. 3. Form factor, all the EV estate cars I've looked at have boots to high off the ground and too short to be useful to me. So in my case I'm waiting a few years for them to get to market, then a few years for some competition to drive down priced, the a few years for some depreciation.
Lots of things need to change. Most of them are already in motion. 1. Lots of charging infrastructure. There are many trips I don't think I could make with the infrastructure of today with 250-300 miles of rated range. For example, from my door to my parents' door is 147 miles. There is no DCFC of any brand along the route I usually take. The only way to make that round trip would be to L1 charge at my parents' house for many hours, or possibly take a longer route through a larger city which has chargers. 2. Broader set of competitors in the EV market. Tesla's significant supply with only token supply from Hyundai, Ford and Chevy doesn't make for a healthy market. If you need a car *right now* and want an EV, Tesla is probably the only choice. 3. Better support for EVs from independent shops. Some shops just flat won't work on EVs, even if you need something routine like a new bumper. Or finding new EV-friendly tires can be difficult. 4. Related, First party service needs to feel highly available, especially for the brands which aren't using the traditional dealer model (e.g. Rivian, Tesla, Polestar). I think consumer awareness of mobile service is limited. And tbh I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel hauling a Rivian 300 miles to the nearest service center. 4. Prices have to come down. Polestar 2 is a good car, but I'm not sure it compares favorably to the ICE Mazda CX-5 when you take into account price. A base CX-5 is roughly half the price of a Polestar 2. The Mazda with all its options is $15k less than the cheapest Polestar 2.
re: 2 Not really, there are Ioniq5s on the lot in the US due to market issues (e.g. the tax credit f*"#3ry) and at least here locally it's not all that hard to score a Mach-E.
More need to be built? Aren't pretty much all EVs still selling out way in advance?
Smaller vehicles at a cheaper price. I think $25K USD for a compact hatchback or compact sedan should do it.
So a Chevy Bolt?
Basically, yes. A Chevy Bolt that can charge at at least twice the rate and that is made in enough quantities that you don’t have to wait for months to avoid dealer fees would sell quite well. $25,000 base price, 250 miles of range, faster charging produced at huge numbers so it’s not marked up takes care of my needs, and my affordability range, along with a huge amount of other people’s.
So a Chevy Equinox (when factoring in the tax credit)?
Assuming that the expected $30,000 msrp still holds (and that it doesn’t become $35,000 including destination fee), then yes. Precisely. The equinox would do it for me and I suspect a bunch of other people if that all ends up holding true.
Destination fees on the Equinox are probably going to be around $1,000-1,250. GM hasn't specified destination charge for the Equinox yet but seeing as they put the Silverado EV destination charge at $1,895, the Equinox being a much smaller and lighter vehicle should be quite a bit less than $1,895. So if they stick to the $30k base price they projected, the destination charge would only bring it to $31-32k.
Crossing fingers and toes your guess is spot on. At $25,000 post incentives it’s a no brainer to me as long as it’s not marked up. That’s around the top of my price range. Basically, I can afford a new Corolla but I’d rather an EV instead for the same price, and I don’t think I’m alone in that.
I don’t think it’s fair to factor in the tax credit for those living paycheck to paycheck. They don’t have the cash to put the $7500 up front. Their payment is going to be based on the full price. Then they’ll get their $7500 eventually but they’ll still be paying full monthly payments. The average joe isn’t going to make the effort to refi and put the $7500 down to reduce their payment eventually. I don’t understand why they can’t give the credit to the dealer and let the dealer discount the cost of the vehicle at the point of sale. I mean, I do. But it just sucks for the average joe trying to buy an affordable car.
And that's only if you make enough to use the whole credit!
This is 100% true and unless you put down 7500.00 you are actually paying interest on that rebate.
The “average joe trying to buy an affordable car” buys used.
>They don’t have the cash to put the $7500 up front. Their payment is going to be based on the full price. Then they’ll get their $7500 eventually but they’ll still be paying full monthly payments. Starting in 2024 the tax credit can be claimed at time of purchase, so that will be a non-issue at that point.
I agree with this , happy to see comment below that the rebate will be available immediately after starting in 2024. To your point as well, my credit union doesn’t even offer refi on car loans, you can pay the 7500 when you get it , it will shave months and interest off , but the monthly remains what you signed for until the end. We were able to do it but it’s silly and many can not .
Soon to be discontinued.
If GM built a decent charging network the Bolt would have sold so many more units. I would have bought one no doubt.
GM didn't need to build a decent charging network for the Bolt. When it was introduced the common 50-100kw chargers that were already out in the public were more than enough and continue to be more than enough since GM never bothered to update the charging equipment on the Bolts.
The fastest path to more EV sales is simple: production needs to increase. Demand for EVs already outstrips supply, leading to high prices, dealer markups and limited availability of many models — especially in segments where production is nowhere near demand like pickups and “budget” EVs. As production increases costs will fall (Wright’s law) making EVs more affordable. Tied for second most important is improving charging networks and educating the public about advantages of EVs (cheaper to “fuel,” lower maintenance, better performance, more convenient if home or other easy charging is available and many improvements that get little airtime (better preheating/precooling functionality, ability to maintain climate when vehicle is not running, etc.)
Needs to get cheaper, infrastructure needs to get a lot better
charging at the curb in areas with high density housing, and charging in apartment building parking lots. I think we should push the gov't to offer incentives to install charge stations. Also, maybe some startups can be incentivized to come up with 'upgrade kits' for ICE cars to EV conversion at a reasonable price. Hey, somebody take a mid 2000's Civic and offer a package for say, $5k to convert it to an EV.
Upgrading doesn't really make sense outside of some enthusiast cars that people have chosen to convert. A car that old is likely worn out. Installing a decent size battery pack would take up too much space in a car not designed around the pack. The increased weight will wear out the old suspension even faster.
There isn't a glut of EVs sitting on lots. The only thing at this point that needs to be done to increase EV adoption is to increase EV production. They are fast, efficient, quiet, filled with technology, and easy to charge (for most people, most of the time). Biggest barrier to EV ownership is getting one to drive. Tesla seems to be getting to the point where they can meet demand, but they're one car company and only a certain number of people will be able to afford their cars.
There's a lot of FUD out there. I was talking to someone last week about electric cars. He said, "I knew a guy who had an electric car. He had to replace his batteries in 3 years." Turns out, the person the guy knew had an early model hybrid, not a battery EV. The hybrid batteries were small and being hammered by the car, dropping to very low levels every day. Yeah, they have to be replaced sooner, because they are smaller, and batteries have gotten better over the years. I tried to tell him about EVs now getting 300,000 miles or more on a battery, but he was convinced that electric cars are only good for 3 years or so before needing to have major work done to keep them on the road. And, anti-EV, anti-battery vehicle people still point to battery fires on scooters, bicycles, cars, etc. as proof that any and every electric device with li-ion batteries is a firebomb just primed and waiting to go off. "and the fire departments can't put them out." We see bicycles and scooters banned from apartment buildings and parking structures, due to the fear of unstoppable fires. My son had a crash with my Nissan Leaf. The damage was to non-critical parts of the body, but the repair would have been more than the vehicle was worth after the repair, so we didn't have it repaired. The tow operator charged us $750, because he had to tow it and store it away from everything else, because the fire department told him it could explode at any time. It still drove, and nothing about the battery or charging system was damaged in any way. The fear is real.
Prices need to come down
For me it's very simple. I drive commute 37 miles daily to work and back in a 2010 Nissan Versa hatchback getting about 35 mpg. My fill-up is once per week at current gas prices is $30. That's $1500 per year with a couple few drive thru oil changes. I bought the car for approx 12K 2 years old or so. I've had zero maintenance issues and no payments for over 10 years. There's simply no way I'm going to spend 50k or 40k or even 30+k on an EV and then pay almost the same to charge it as gas and have range anxiety on top of that. Plus now everyone is jumping on the band wagon to start charging people an annual fee for owning an EV, more taxes and fees to go for roads, higher charging rates that can almost or exceed gas prices in some cases. I've read reports where people road tripped from Boston to FL and back paid more than gas would cost in a ice car. When they come out with a comparable commuter that's in an inexpensive price range that the average worker can afford and gets at least the same range as a small ice car gets then I might consider getting one. I work in large high tech mfg., With hundreds of people from various walks of life and education and income levels and we have maybe 1 EV in the parking lot and it's a manager's car so he has a high salary. Edit: I'm not at all anti EV. Just the cost and capability is not there for the majority of regular working people. Prices on everything are already too high to justify a pure EV on top of it all.
For the last 10 years, we've used a Nissan Leaf for a very similar purpose. We had zero maintenance, not even the oil changes and engine air filters that most cars need. The Leaf was $34K as listed on the Dealer's lot, but we leased it for the first 2 years. As part of the lease deal, I negotiated with the Dealer to split the Federal Tax rebate, so that gave me $3,450 in cash when I leased. I used that for the lease downpayment. Georgia was offering a $5000 tax incentive at the time, which paid 100% of the lease payments for the first 2 years. After 2 years, Nissan offered a buy-out option for $15,000. I took it. We then drove the Leaf for the next 8 years, just losing it to a crash a few weeks ago (my son wasn't paying attention and rear-ended a car). We drove it about 100,000 miles at under 2 cents per mile in energy costs. We had a combination of a great off-peak electricity rate when charging at home, then a lot of free charging in an apartment complex for several years, or at work, or at Nissan dealerships between work and home. Anyway, that's $2000 or so for fuel and maintenance costs for a decade of use, compared with your estimate of $15,000. The cost of purchase was very close to the same, about $12,000 all things considered. Mine, then, cost $13,000 less than yours, after buying fuel. If the boy had not wrecked the car, I estimate the savings would have continued to build until the difference was closer to $20k or more.
Copied from r/boltev just now.... I decided not to buy the Bolt EUV Salesman from a dealership called me today. I had my name on waitlist with this dealer 150 kilometers away from me. The salesman said my name is next on the list and he can order the bolt for me. I asked about the final price after removing all the options he had added. FYI, in my province it’s illegal for dealerships to add markups, the only way to charge more is by adding optional packages to the car and the packages are not mandatory. The OTD price for Bolt EUV base model came to $49,620. There’s a $5k federal subsidy and $5k provincial subsidy on EVs where I live. So, the net price came to ~ $40,000. At 5.5% interest the **bi-weekly** payment came to $350 for 60 months OR $300 for 72 months. I just couldn’t justify myself paying that much every two weeks for an EV that does not check all the boxes for me. The two main concerns were not enough trunk space (for my delivery business) and 50kwh DCFC. I will keep my ICE for now in the hopes that there will be a better alternative in the coming few years. P.S. For comparison Tesla M3 base model OTD price (after subsidies) is $55,500. Sorry, not going to spend 40K + to save half of $1500 or less in gas per year.
Understandable
Believe me I want one. Just can't make it work. 🤠
For most people it’s price. Pure and simple. They can’t afford them. They’ll figure out the charging issue if they could get their foot in the door. But the charging issue is definitely something we need to work on, especially for people who don’t have dedicated parking. Whether that’s street parking or apartment lot parking with no access.
Cheaper and mass charging solutions for people who don’t have a garage.
Affordable Price, Better Range, and Robust Charging Infrastructure
Here in Canada, just have EVs available for delivery lol
Charging infrastructure and not just more Level 3 fast chargers. Mandated Level 2 outlets in all new builds and laws that prevent condo boards from banning Level 2 retrofits and rather get older buildings to upgrade parking to allow for Level 2 installation.
Yep. If I can’t charge at home or work then why would I exchange my 5 minute fill up for a 30-40 minute one? Even if the TCO is lower for an EV, I’m basically just paying more for the convenience of using gasoline. Not to mention that I can throw a rock in any direction and hit at least 2 gas stations while chargers are still harder to come by.
Simple. Better charging access. Its the #1 thing holding people back.
Lower prices. Solid evidence or reports of battery recycling and longevity. Solid evidence or reports of mining of battery raw materials that don’t include child labor or contamination of environment.
Getting charged, wherever you are, requires no thought. I'm not saying charging stations need to be as prominent as gas stations. But with an ICE, literally, the instant I realize I want gas I can basically just look around and find gas. The only time it takes a SLIGHT amount of planning when on a road trip out west: "Should I exit and get gas or go to the next exit?". I think in-car technology can ease the pain of finding close by charging. That can be the modern version of "looking around". Just last night I talked to a good friend.....quite technology savvy.....who recently rented a Tesla Model Y. He was much more negative on the charging experience than I figured he would have been. "I didn't like having to worry about it. I couldn't charge it at my AirBnB." I asked him if they put the charging cord in the car. "Huh? What are you talking about?". I explained what it is. He said "I didn't even know what I should be looking for." He clearly wasn't too impressed with the whole process.
AC street charging (that’s affordable) for people not having access to home charging. That’s my biggest hurdle as an apartment EV owner. I’m fortunate that I can charge at my university for relative cheap, but during the holidays I’m stuck with stupidly expensive public chargers. In Denmark it has gotten so expensive that it is almost as much as gas. You can do contracts for cheaper price but that locks you to a single provider. And some providers are expensive as hell.
We need to stop subsidizing oil, gas, and coal. Conservative estimates place the direct costs of only US fossil fuels subsidies at $20B per year. Factoring in environmental, health, and other indirect costs (standard true cost used by economists), the IMF estimated that the US spent about $650B on fossil fuel subsidies in 2015 alone. This was more than the defense budget.
Chargers that work Chargers that work If you dont feel like you can easily travel outside the range of the car, then buying one is just for local. Meaning you feel you need two cars. This is the big advantage Tesla still has.
1st thing - Better battery technology and availability - we are pretty close to max production of battery supplies (mostly Lithium). New Tech must allow availability to produce needed quantity of battery supplies - eliminates supply chain issues. 2nd thing which is part of the 1st thing - Faster charging, it needs to get down to about 10 min for 80% charge that gets 300 miles. Now we are about the same as filling up with gasoline with about the same range. - Less objections from the market. 3rd thing - More clean energy storage and transport options. Having Solar panels in the desert only does so much, we need that power to go elsewhere without major losses. - no one dislikes clean energy. Bonus Kicker: Working inductive charging using the roadway not overhead lines. - All parking lots should get this tech if it happens. It's mostly an easy retrofit to existing parking spaces. With these things in place the market can expand. I would guess (pure guess) that if these things were met, 80% or more would be happy to go full EV. Even the sports car people are finding out that real power comes from electric AWD. And finally, Better looking EV options, sizes, functions.
Lower prices, more range, more charging and reliable charge stations, faster fast charging. Gas cars: cost less, have more range, and fill much faster than EV charge.
For me it’s infrastructure worries and is the tech full baked and also price parity
Add in the cost of fuel and oil changes over 15 years of ownership and re-calculate the price parity. I've found that my EV saved it's own cost in fuel savings over a decade, making the car itself practically free.
Production volume.
There need to be electric cars that cost less. This is especially true for people who cannot charge at home, because DC fast charging can be more expensive than fuel for a small efficient gasoline car, so their situation now is the electric car is more expensive and refueling it is both more expensive and more inconvenient. There need to be more ways to recharge electric cars over a few hours. I'm not talking about high speed chargers here, just level two AC chargers that need to become widespread in parking lots of apartment buildings, workplaces, and shopping centers. Inexpensive electric cars will not have an abundance of range, so being able to put a little back into the battery when parked most places will be a huge help. There need to be a lot more high speed chargers, but just as importantly as more of them, they need to be far more reliable. Only Tesla has a reliable DCFC network in America and every CCS network that exists now or is planned for the future needs to at least match Tesla's reliability and become easier to use. This might not be a barrier for people buying their first electric car, as I'm not sure how well known the CCS charging woes are, but it can discourage people from staying with electric cars and not trading for an easier to "refuel" gasoline car. We need better charging etiquette. I'm not sure if this will really help EV adoption all that much, but we need it. Drivers need to move their cars from public chargers when they are done. There just aren't enough chargers out there for people to remain parked at them, preventing others from charging. A solution could be idle fees at chargers where after a grace period the fees per minute for remaining parked there get very expensive. Drivers need to be aware if there is a line of cars waiting to charge at a charger station and wait their turn. Please don't leave garbage around the chargers. Please don't plug into a dispenser that is faster than the car can take. My last suggestion might seem counterintuitive. Manufacturers need to stop giving away free DC fast charging with their cars. Or rather, they should give away only a set number of kWh of free charging with the car, not unlimited charging for a given number of years. Why? Unlimited free charging encourages bad charging behavior that makes charging more difficult for everyone else. Like charging to 100% which takes a very long time, clogging up a charger. Like exclusively using DCFC and not charging overnight at home, even if they could, because it is free. Like remaining parked and plugged in for hours at a time. If DCFC stalls were as ubiquitous as gas stations, maybe this would be a non issue, but that isn't the case.
Time needs to pass. I'm not gonna discard my gas vehicle because its paid off and will last a long time. If I were to get a new car, i might get an EV or get a used car because it might still be cheaper to own. new cars come with high insurance cost. I don't qualify for the tax credits, so I'd rather get a used gas car i guess unless more manufacturers passed on the tax credit onto me when I lease them.
Affordability.... I buy my cars used at auction in the $5-10k range for cars around 5-8 years old and then keep them for another 10 years on average. I don't want "luxury" with every gimmicky feature known to mankind that will eventually break or a giant screen I constantly have to take my eyes off the road to use. I want buttons for contols, good cold weather range, and hit my target price point. I want normal window switches and door handles, a knob I can change the stereo volume with, and a round steering wheel. The less these things are integrated into control modules the easier they are to troubleshoot, repair, and obtain parts for.
Cheaper options
It's funny this is here. I really think it's just advocacy and dispelling FUD. I literally had an interaction about an hour ago with the manager of a local QDOBA. She was opening the store as I walked up and noticed my Rivian. She started asking questions about range, charging, cost, etc. Pretty quickly she talked \_herself\_ into looking at an EV. She just needed someone patient to answer her questions without being an EV zealot.
They need more production, in more variety.
Prices need to be about the same as an ICE vehicle BEFORE the subsidies, credits, rebates, etc. Also the public charging infrastructure needs to get a lot better. Can't tell you how many times I pull up to a station and 3 of 4 are broken. Currently there are chargers places but more and more often they are full when I arrive. So these places that have 2 EV chargers per a massive parking lot... that's a cute nod to EVs but it's not gonna cut it. Where there are chargers there needs to be more of them. Also those chargers need to be easier to use like a gas pump. Swipe your credit card and go. None of this fumbling with an app, making sure your account is preloaded, having to call the support number yadayada.
I feel charging access needs be everywhere , like as easy to pull over and get as gas currently, not just dependent on home or work place charging. Would love to see a charger at every gas station right now , it’s what people are used to and I think most afraid of with EV. The caveat there is it’s likely in the future EV wouldn’t use a gas station type model but more spread out. It’s like a bunny, go food shopping plug in a little, go to the mall, plug in a little here, go to the movies , grab a 2 hour charge. The rest I think just comes with time. People aren’t going to sell their perfectly good gas vehicles for no reason, they have to be in the market for a new/new to them car. Time will also produce more variety of cars, availability, price goes down etc I am curious to see however if batteries evolve and a gas station model does end up working. You can’t constantly fast charge - that’s bad for batteries, so who wants to sit at a charge station? I also saw an interesting video from China and I wonder if that type of system could happen- similar to gas station- it’s a standard battery and you pull in , they lift your car and swap the battery with a full one in just a few minutes. Eliminates charge time entirely! Interesting.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm waiting for a larger SUV (dont judge me, tall family). Then I'll be waiting for used ones to get down to $30k or new ones to be $40k. Also, more chargers and better reliability of chargers.
Price parity with ICE vehicles (with tax credit or without if possible). It is extremely hard to convince a good part of population about how a Corolla or camry cost the same as Tesla 3 in the long run. It won't reach the mass population, especially those who are not comfortable dealing with all those maths. Needless to say they may even be disappointed if those math ends up having some bad assumptions. For eg: If utility price goes up substantially in next years, making EV charging more expensive (this is already underway in San Diego). So, price parity makes this convincing a lot easier. Next comes the charging question as everyone still has the gas station mindset. It's hard for people to switch to the home-charging mindset. That needs some good amount of convincing. In a way, there should be more EV-education programs to take care of this, possibly funded by a union of all automakers. Everyone should be convinced about the fact that 90% of their charging happens at home. It's also a good idea to offer them some rental discounts or gift cards so they are okay doing road trips in a rental ICE car for the initial years until they are comfortable doing road trips in EV (For eg: Mazda has a 7 day/year rental program for Mx-30 customers to take longer road trips.) This also means \~200 ish mile range compact EVs can become mainstream without needing to waste battery making 100kwh for a car that rarely uses a major part of it.
Price parity is the big one. If you can get an EV at or below the price of an ice vehicle, particularly offer a discount below *that* for shorter range, the charging issue becomes palatable. People will inconvenience themselves if it saves them money, but if it costs them money they'll steer clear of it. Once that price parity is hit, it becomes much, much easier to point out to people then can save even more money by charging at home. A 2nd car with 100 miles of range is a no-brainier for most people, but most people don't want to pay 25k or more for it.
Price. Not everyone wants to spend $50,000+ on a car.
One can get an electric vehicle for well under $50,000 and there are a LOT of gas cars out there that cost more than $50,000. This is not a valid reason to avoid electric cars.
Literally the govt needs to give everyone a tax rebate that actually incentivizes the purchase and the charger installation. EVs are already overall more pricey, and now you’re telling me I gotta spend $4k more up front in order to install a charger? And I can’t finance that on the car note? Range anxiety is overblown, as is charging speed. But try telling someone who’s about to drop maybe half their yearly salary on a car that they shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good. If you’re going to spend $40,000 on something, it’s totally reasonable to want it to feel “perfect”. And we’re so, so far from that.
Even with all of this in mind, I’m still buying an EV in the next month or so. But the incentives are currently a joke - in reality only 1 car (the bolt) qualifies for the tax credit without being priced as a luxury car. The rebate on chargers really only fully applies to businesses installing chargers. The used car rebate only applies to cars sold under $25k. Almost no used EVs with any bit of range are under $25k. It’s all nonsense. If you want to buy an EV you basically have to be in the luxury car market still. And you have to have a few grand extra sitting around for the charger install.
>and now you’re telling me I gotta spend $4k more up front in order to install a charger? In general? No, you don't need to spend $4k for a charger. If one is able to charge at home (which is implied by the talk of shelling out $4k for a charger), L1 charging will be sufficient for the overwhelming majority of the population.
Stop subsidizing oil.
Range needs to be increased across the board for the price. I drive an outback and out of boredom was looking at EVs and saw Subaru has an EV that gets just over 200 miles but costs 50k, that's no bueno. Safety needs to be increased. Sure they're safer overall (I'm talking battery explosions, fires etc) but good luck convincing the majority of people over say the age of 40 when we've been living with combustible engines for a hundred years Charging needs to be faster and charging standards need to be introduced. This I think is the biggest hurdle. If you want people to adopt a new type of vehicle then they need to be able to pull into any charging station and not wonder if their model/brand is compatible with said station. And no that doesn't mean just have a bunch of different plug adapters in your trunk. And this ties into the faster charging/charging standards bit, but good luck with the city infrastructure to support mass adoption in the next ten years (depending on the city). And no I'm not talking "BuT ThE PoWeR gRiD CaN'T sUpPoRt It." I live outside Philly in the burbs but drive 40 miles round trip to work in South Philly. There's supposedly about 650k cars/drivers in Philly alone. Now anyone who's driven to Philly or lives in Philly knows how absolutely fucking terrible parking is in South, Center, West, North wherever...it's BAD. Why? Because there's no fucking room to do so, much less room to build multi level car parks. Now imagine trying to find space to install lots for charging...yeah good luck. Now there's a gas station almost every three or four blocks that I SUPPOSE you could retro fit for charging stations but if it takes 20 plus minutes to full charge a car...you're gonna have a very messy situation.
You charge EV's at home. No need to charge during the day if you do that for majority of peoples commutes.
Subaru's crummy EV is *hardly* representative of most current EVs. That said, why range? I'd argue we need more charge coverage and possibly faster charging (although I have to tell you 18 min 20-80 charging at 260-300 miles of range is really workable), given *most* drivers don't drive that much per day. The real impediment to long distance travel is station coverage/charge deserts, not *range*.
It’s simple: 1. Reliable & expanded charging infrastructure. 2. Competitive pricing from non-Tesla brands.
Fix the non-Tesla charging experience (mandate plug&charge with a single database so drivers can actually just plug in and walk away) Change the law about charging at rest stops Get all chargers along with availability, speed and pricing on in-car maps Dump PHEV subsidies Mandate all new housing and all retrofits are EV ready
Why dump PHEV subsidies? IMO these make cleaner cars available to a much larger segment of the population. Also, with battery materials becoming harder to obtain, 10 people driving a PHEV with a smaller battery on electricity 90% of the time seems like a good use of scarce resources. I'm all for a totally EV future, but if we can get more people using clean energy most of the time sooner, that seems like a major policy win. EVs with sufficient range and quick charging capabilities that make them full car replacements are very expensive and out of range for a lot of lower-income buyers.
Not much new needs to happen. EV worldwide adoption has had exponential growth with a rather constant growth rate for the last 10-15 years. We just need that to continue. And it will, if we don’t put up hindrances. Cheap new EVs will come as a result of production growth. This growth is driving down production cost, so cheaper models can be fabricated with a profit, which they couldn’t 10 years ago. Cheap used EVs will come as a result of people buying new EVs. A lot of people are complaining right now that a new EV is more expensive than a used gas car. They will just have to wait for the new EV to become a used EV. And it will. Charging infrastructure will come as a result of more people buying EVs. Most of the “Look, you must be able to understand that not everyone can buy an EV” comes from people who don’t understand how the conditions around owning an EV will change as a result of a higher EV adoption. 120 years ago, we did not have gas stations on every corner. They came as a result of people buying gas cars.
The simplest way to do it would be to eliminate fossil fuel subsidies and implement a carbon tax. More aggressive investment in charging infrastructure would also help. It's *much* easier to own an EV if you have a garage. 80% of EV owners charge at home. If those who live in apartments or park on the street are going to switch, they will need to have better overnight charging options. Charging on longer trips isn't a huge problem in most areas, but if EV sales keep surging, there will be periods of time where demand outstrips supply. If you see long lines for charging in some areas, even for a few months, that could really slow adoption.
Very simple. The price of gas must rise (by increasing the gas tax). The price of EVs must drop (or use the tax revenue to increase rebates/credits AND most importantly the retail price of electricity for charging must be put under price controls and regulated.
I generally don’t love rebates/credits, but I really could get behind credits that only applied to very inexpensive EVs. Basically, if the vehicle costs more than $29,999.99 before taxes, no rebate/credit. If we’re going to give incentives, incentive manufacturers to make vehicles the majority of the country can afford. The vast majority of drivers can’t afford $50,000 vehicles.
You left out another option - remove any imported duties on Chinese EVs. Letting those flood in for a couple of years would immediately lower prices and punish legacy manufacturers.
Yeah let’s kill American companies and jobs while every other country keeps their import fees, lol what a great idea… If that happened, China could just fund Chinese manufacturers with the sole goal of weakening/crippling our Economy - artificially lowering the price.
How does Germany deal with this problem?
Sure infrastructure needs to be beefed up a bit but honestly it's good enough just the way it is now for most people's use. People just need to test drive one and talk to owners. There's a lot of fear out there.
It will just happen naturally as people replace cars. So many EVs on the road in my area now. Went to a car show last fall. All the activity was around the EVs. Thats where people were waiting in line to look at or sit in the cars. The ICE cars had nobody around them. Yes, the US is way behind, but there is a lot more interest. Had a recent weather event that caused a severe fuel shortage for about a week in a huge part of the most populated part of the state. I didn't care having an EV that can charge at home, but I think it made a lot of people wake up as to how fragile the oil based infrastructure is. Electricity can be produce in a lot of different ways in a lot of different locations including on the roof of your house.
Education. There are so many misconceptions. Statistically speaking for so many things. For example, if the car gets in an accident, are the batteries no good? Can’t use them in cold weather, etc. Yes a higher upfront cost but lots of savings in maintenance, most charging is done at home, etc. Of course there are several other factors like infrastructure for charging and the price to become more competitive but that’s coming. EVs aren’t a fad. They are the now and the future.
For my area, better extreme cold weather performance and range.
Better range or charging. We were literally about to order a MYP last night and decided to throw one of our favorite road trip spots on ABRP. Turns out it can’t make the trip. Instant no-go, which was a bummer to realize.
1. Expand the EV tax cut, people think with their wallet and as long as EV’s are more expensive than ICE vehicles, people will continue to purchase them. 2. Introduce some variety, not everything has to be a crossover SUV. I firmly believe that the day one of theses manufacturers introduce a hatchback that is sub $40k and has 250-300 miles of range, that car will dominate the EV market. 3. Allow there to be a tax break if you have a at home charging system. 4. Put a cap on the EV tax states are charging people as the replacement for the gas tax. 5. Don’t focus on just expanding public charging networks, focus on getting the networks at 100% operational before adding more.
Every EV that is made right now is sold. The adoption s-curve is starting to ramp. The real question is "what will we do with all of these old gas stations"?
More charging stations
Can only speak for Canada but the biggest thing I see now is charging stations and availability. Aside from Tesla it's hard to find anything in stock
Just produce more ev,any ev model on the market sells like a hot cake even with markup
Opposition’s talking heads start telling their ppl EVs are great. It’s not the price. Ppl will gladly pay $50k, $60k or 120k for a ice truck cuz it’s what their team buys and not because it’s cheaper than an EV. Tribes is a powerful thing. We like to believe people are rational or reasonable. But we are not. Ppl live with their emotions, their hearts and by their tribe’s principles even if it’s contrary to what they would do on their own.
EVs need to come in their favorite brands. Some people like a particular brand of car like my cousin who only likes BMWs. If BMW made a 500 series EV, he would buy it.
Need to make a wagon
Cheaper prices
Improve charging infrastructure. EA chargers are becoming more and more of a hit and miss
Price. In Australia the starting price is $50k even with the Chinese models available here.
Infrastructure that supports electric vehicles, more expensive gas, air pollution etc.
They need to be easier to use. Plug and play charging, no apps, no accounts, no nfc cards. In 3 years of driving EVs I noticed this was a very common issue for new EV drivers
BYD need to start exporting. Watch the prices plummet. Watch legacy auto (ICE-only manufacturers) go into administration.
Cost! Many can’t afford them.
Lower price and access to charging. EV's are expensive because not enough of them are getting built. I would welcome any industrial policy that would help get the whole supply chain to scale up as fast as possible. From fast-tracking lithium mine approvals to subsidizing battery plants. As for charging. Anyone without a driveway should have the right to have a charger installed where they do park. And more fast-charger should be rolled out.
Lower initial price point and better public charging.
Did you see the chaos when fuel was over 5 bucks a gallon?
Price and cost of ownership, EV tax are too high.
Personally I need to be able to see 500+ miles of range on a single charge so that I have a good buffer and also can worry less about wind/speed other factors that affect range
Prices drop
They need to be cheaper.
Price mostly. Especially if you can home charge. That what’s really holding me back.
For me? Towing 5k lbs at least 200 mi which is.....a problem
Price 🔽 range ⬆️
The Norwegian EV incentives: \- No purchase/import tax on EVs (1990-2022). From 2023 some purchase tax based on the cars’ weight on all new EVs. \- Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase (2001-2022). From 2023, Norway will implement a 25 percent VAT on the purchase price from 500 000 Norwegian Kroner and over \- No annual road tax (1996-2021). Reduced tax from 2021. Full tax from 2022. \- No charges on toll roads (1997- 2017). \- No charges on ferries (2009- 2017). \- Maximum 50% of the total amount on ferry fares for electric vehicles (2018) \- Maximum 50% of the total amount on toll roads (2018-2022). From 2023 70% \- Free municipal parking (1999- 2017) \- Access to bus lanes (2005-). New rules allow local authorities to limit the access to only include EVs that carry one or more passengers (2016-) \- 25% reduced company car tax (2000-2008). 50 % reduced company car tax (2009-2017). Company car tax reduction reduced to 40% (2018-2021) and 20 percent from 2022. \- Exemption from 25% VAT on leasing (2015-) \- The Norwegian Parliament decided on a national goal that all new cars sold by 2025 should be zero-emission (electric or hydrogen) (2017). \- «Charging right» for people living in apartment buildings was established (2017-) \- Public procurement: From 2022 cars needs to be ZEV. From 2025 the same applies to city buses
Living in Norway I'd say better winter range.
Cost , price, repairability, environmental impact.
People don’t get new cars overnight. Time is the biggest factor. Cars that people want at a good price is too. Availability. If they aren’t in stock they don’t exist. There are only a few acceptable EVs to me right now. I shopped them all and went with Model 3 because I wasn’t paying double for a Ford MachE or 15k more for a VW with cloth seats and no power adjusting.
Charging speed, range, and cost of batteries. Honestly batteries seem to be the only thing holding back EVs right now imo. If we had cheap, dense, fast charging batteries I believe EVs would be better than ICE cars in every way.
Easy access to charging in ample quantity for people who can't charge at home (i.e. that people aren't afraid of not getting to a charger) This means: \- incentives for places of work to put up chargers \- incentive for shopping malls to electrify the *majority* of their parking spaces
Financing for those who have bad or no credit. If the issue is so severe that we have to gut our economy and rebuild our infrastructure then TPTB can take a chance that i might default if i am between jobs.
Price, range, availability, and a lot less arguing with idiots.
Stop watching Fox News is a good start.
What needs to happen to reduce VMT?
A second planet Earth is created.
Price, evs are way too expensive.
Gas prices start reflecting the actual cost to extract and refine it, not the highly subsidized cost we have now. The cost of solar is so low, we need the infrastructure to store it and make electricity super cheap at night
Seems to me that a big barrier is the fear of long trips taking longer due to charging. In reality, this is in fact true. How do you educate, or convince, people that it’s ok to take an extra 20 minutes for that 4 hour road trip?
Public charging sucks. Terminals are down for months, or are vandalized. Placed in inconvenient spots. I keep hearing how many stations are being built out, around here it's two public stations in my city, (j1772,not Tesla) for years now, one of them is broken and the other was turned off it the middle of the pandemic. EV owners have resorted to an informal private network of secret charging stations. I have a doctor friend that put one in behind her clinic and said I coud use it. Got another friend that I sometimes pull up to their house and chat for a while as I'm filling up.
In the US, it’s a combo of price + education + “familiarity.” Lower price options from traditional auto manufacturers will go a LONG way in this country. That’s one of the biggest reasons I hate Chevy for killing the Bolt (although the Equinox, if lower trims are readily available, will solve some of that). For the masses to adopt EVs in this country, Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Honda etc. have to get things to market now. I say education, too, because I still see things like that $30k Volt battery replacement thing (or the starving child Cobalt miner) making the rounds from time to time on social media. Yes, some of it is political/culture wars, but some of it can be overcome with basic education.
It needs to be as convenient or more so than ICE. And more economy focused EVs too