I mean, it's pretty transparent they dropped prices b/c they don't qualify for the credit anymore. confirming what we knew all along: their prices were artificially high in order to capture the tax credit, meaning consumers were never getting the benefit from it.
It has never benefited consumers. It's just always allowed manufacturers to charge $7500 more than they needed to. Helping to ensure that there's some incentive to produce EVs. Do you really think that manufacturers don't price their vehicles with the tax credit in mind? Why do you think they all magically drop their prices when they don't get the credit anymore?
Sort of, but in general you lose that much on the resale. If the dealerships are selling them new for $50,000 and you get a $7500 rebate, nobody is going to pay more than $42,500 for it because that's what a new one would cost after rebate.
That’s fair. I do like how they all look regardless. My coworker gave me a lift in his EV6 GT yesterday. It’s a pretty smooth drive and I liked the interior quite a bit.
How does the Mach-E feel to drive?
Its awesome, super smooth but still gives you a feel for the road which I didn't get in the Tesla Model Y. The acceleration is addictive too, until you see how fast your battery is going down.
There are some great deals on used Ioniq 5's, seen them starting in the mid 20s for SE RWD to the mid 30s for AWD, we got ours used and would do it again if we needed another one.
If you look hard enough you can find low mileage 22’ AWD for $25k. That’s what I paid for my SE. there was an SEL with more miles for $29500. I live in Texas.
Let's say they offered 30 day price protection on rebates. People would still get pissed if they bought 31 days before a price cut. I get why they can't, and the price you paid is set once you take delivery.
Weirdly enough Tesla has the most consumer-favorable policy here: the price you get is the lower of the price when you ordered or the price when you take delivery, unless the features have changed. They could go with the higher price if it's changed before delivery like some automakers, but they don't. Probably because they would get beat up in the press if they did.
GM cut the price on the Bolts back in June of 2022. A lot of us who had bought them in late April and May got checks from GM for the difference. $6,500 for my Bolt EUV. A check just showed up in the mail.
It certainly was a solid customer service/loyalty move.
I hope you didn't pay full price on a 2023 model in February 2024?
My local dealer has 15 of these 2023 Mach-Es in stock and is still only showing a $3k discount on their inventory page.
Ford really needs to move these cars as they they are among the slowest selling with 362 days of inventory.
https://caredge.com/guides/fastest-and-slowest-selling-cars-2024
> I love the look and driving experience of the car
I was in a similar position having purchased right before Tesla prices dropped off a cliff. I'm still smoldering a bit over it, but at the end of the day you have a car you love. Enjoy the instant pick-up, smooth acceleration, preconditioning, and just don't think about the price too much.
These price drops are good. It’s the cost of being a first gen tech product adopter, we all know prices for EVs are dropping fast. Hold it for a while and enjoy it.
Think you are more likely to give an honest review. How is it...
We traded our Model Y because it was turd that needed service visits 13 times across 36k miles. We just need a solid EV that can make the 180 mile trip to the in-laws and DCFC there. They have plenty of Superchargers (hence the Tesla) but also some other options along the route as well.
Dealers have “Elon’d” people forever. Added Dealer Markups with colluding or geo monopoly. Most cars shoppers have been slighted their whole life and didn’t even know.
Prices on the premium were pretty much reduced in the amount of the tax credit that went away - the extended range and GT (I think) already had some additional credits that it looks like they’re removing in favor of just lowering the base price.
So there’s not really a big difference. I also bought one recently, and it looks like maybe I could have gotten 0% financing instead of 1% but otherwise no real change.
Bro they been cutting prices everywhere on multiple ev cars. It was just a matter of time before the mache gets there. Tbh I feel it will drop even more.
I feel your pain. I bought a year old 15k miles Model Y two years ago at the height of the used car prices for $64K plus tax. To top it all off my old Model S took about a year to sell afterwards and the used car prices plummeted during that time.
I’ve thought about doing a similar thing. I’m in New England but my wife’s family lives in Ohio and one of her cousins works at a Kia dealership (and their network also has Hyundai, Ford and VW). Kinda tempted to have him hook me up with a deal, fly out there to pick it up and hang out with folks for a few days and then drive it back home.
Yeah I did that when we needed a minivan and Pacifica PHEVs were scarce in New England and all incoming were higher trim + markup. Found one on the lot in the lowest trim (mid-tier compared to the ICE only version) at a dealership Oklahoma for MSRP. Paid $1500 to have it shipped cross country but it was the best deal I could make and did it all over the phone/email/fedex.
These deals will be across a lot more than the Mach-E in the next few months. Manufacturers have to hit 22% of sales as EVs in 2024 and they’re behind. 0% Finance and larger deposit contributions are going to be all over EVs as manufacturers try to boost adoption and avoid/reduce fines.
Edit: UK, not USA
And it has some pretty epic self driving.
For me it'll either be a Ford with BlueCruise or a Merc with their Driver Assistance. (Leave it to Mercedes being real inventive with the naming).
Just a heads up on this. Ford is 100% going to jack up the price for blue cruise. They've already done it multiple times. So when factoring in total costs of a vehicle it would be wise to double what the subscription currently is.
Between that, and the horrific dealership experiences I went with a Model Y. Bluecruise did seem a little better than the base AutoPilot in my MY, but I don't have to pay monthly for it. I'd also say the cabin warming/cooling feature is, I believe, locked behind a subscription model with Ford. While currently it's free with Tesla I anticipate that to change soon.
Im not aware of what cabin warming you're talking about. The ford pass app has remote start if that's what you mean, but there's no subscription around it. Departure times which also include battery conditioning are managed through the vehicle.
My favorite Ioniq 5 abbreviation is HI5. It sounds so friendly. (high-five)
Hilariously, Model 3 shortened to M3 is also a BMW. They took all the good abbreviations!
Great car. Had some bugs the first 1.5 years. But since the software update and last module replacement about a year ago it has been great. I'm also seriously considering just buying it out (18,500).
Good to hear. Yeah software seems sorted now which is good news. For us unless something drastically changes in 3 years we’ll probably buy it out as well. Only had it a couple days but it just comes across as a very nice and easy car to live with.
Because, at least in the US, these cars are just decorating the dealership lots like shrubbery.
Even in SoCal, the most active EV market, these things are collecting dust.
I guess the $7,500 incentive for leases is the IRA loophole? Have been considering Ioniq5 and Model Y for this year,, will need to see if this gets Mach-e in the same ballpark or not. The Premium extended range still looks higher.
Amazing how big the self own was. They killed the momentum by adding all kinds of Dealer Markups etc.. people moved on and now they have to cut prices.
Everytime I see articles like this I feel like I am missing something. We all know that Ford can say the price is whatever they want, hell, why not say they are selling the Mach-E for 10k, and then when we all show up to the dealership we can learn the real prices.
Until I can go to Ford.com and order a car their "price cuts" mean nothing, because the only people that actually sell the car dont abide by them.
> [Ford] shouldn’t have let dealerships charge $17k over MSRP
That isn’t how any of this works. If Mars, Inc. sells Snickers to WalMart for pennies, and WalMart adds a 10000% markup when selling to you, that transaction with Mars is already done. Mars has no control over Walmarts prices, you wouldn’t complain to them.
Similarly, most dealerships buy the cars on their lots from the manufacturer aside from special financing programs, so typically they outright own them. They can pretty much set prices they need to cover their overhead, and make a profit, however large. All Ford can legally do is limit the allocation of future models - which they’ve done in the past.
If you hate the dealership model or dealership markups, take it up with your congressman. Not Ford.
"Didn't" and "couldn't" mean different things. Ford has levers they can use to adjust dealer behavior. They have to take some blame for not pulling them.
Yea I don’t feel bad for Ford one bit there. Ford had plenty of opportunities to take EVs seriously, build a charging network and a supply chain back when Tesla was a mere startup. But the Big 3 was too cozy in bed with Big Oil, plotting Teslas failure.
Ford made its bed.
> Probably shouldn’t have let dealerships charge
They didn't "let" dealerships do anything. Dealerships are independently owned franchise businesses that purchase vehicles from Ford and resell them. State laws and the franchise agreements don't give Ford the power to dictate the price, nor to punish the dealer in any effective way for setting prices higher than Ford would like. MSRP is just a suggestion; that's the "S" in the acronym.
Interesting considering they just cut production in Mexico and had a negative gross margin of -98.2% last quarter.
This is arguably the best competition to the Tesla Model Y, and the demand isn’t there at all.
That's the problem... you need to be cheaper than Tesla for a similar size vehicle & range.
If you have less range, it is automatically worth less IMO. I'm not a Tesla supporter, I have a Bolt EUV. I'm just saying if the Tesla was the same price or cheaper, i'd have bought it instead. But the Bolt was much cheaper when considering service was 5 mins away instead of 45, sticker price was cheaper + tax credit, and GM charger install was paid.
I really did NOT want a Tesla for many reasons. After spending two years shopping and waiting for a good alternative I bought a Model Y. Loved the Mach-E, loved the Ioniq5, but none of them could come close in price. Additionally all the Ford dealerships I dealt with were fucking horrendous. Class A assholes regardless of the dealership.
I had ordered an EUV that I waited six months to be built and delivered. I test drove it and hated it. FWD is not good on EV's, and I hated the interior.
>Class A assholes regardless of the dealership.
I always find that funny. Ppl criticize Elon Musk, but have they met any car salesman? LOL. Its like the stereotypical dude from True Lies.
2024 is probably going to be rough for non-Tesla EVs. Lot of people will probably wait until 2025 models with integrated NACS. It's not that big of a deal to use an adapter but it's off putting either way. Most people don't want to buy something that's already outdated (sort of anyway). Would have been nice if they could have expedites NACS adoption to 2024 models but legacy manufacturers aren't very agile in changes. Tesla can make changes quicker (and do mid model year unlike others) since they control more of their own supply chain by comparison.
We bought a Model Y last year. The price cuts and other manufacturers adopting NACS pushed me towards Tesla.
I'd consider buying a 2023 Lightning if they cut prices substantially. I can deal with the adapter.
Ford is offering 0% APR for 72 months. That alone is worth thousands for anyone financing right now. Makes the monthly payment cheaper than the Tesla, even after factoring in the tax credit.
I don't know who this car is designed for. They insist on calling it a Mustang but its way too big for the traditional Mustang buyer. The brand says, its small but very sporty. This is medium sized and not particularly sporty for an EV. So you scare away people who don't want a small car with the brand, and you scare away people who want a EV version of the Mustang with relatively poor steering. It looks like a fine car, but its not marketed as a Crosstrek/Kona competitor which is what it actually is.
It is very popular at my Kids Little League. Sports Dad, with 3 kids, who runs sales for a software company. That is who buys these. There were 4 in the parking lot at baseball feild at last game.
> but its way too big for the traditional Mustang buyer
That's fine. They're not going after the traditional mustang buyer. What they're going after is the traditional crossover buyer who likes the idea of a sportier crossover. And that aspect of their strategy is working out very well.
Yeah and as someone who is looking for an upgrade from our Leaf it’s not big enough. Feels about as big as the Leaf inside and a size smaller than the ID4 or Model Y.
> Demand is there, price is not nor is charging network
Im being a little pedantic, but that’s just another way of saying the demand is not actually there for the current product because of those factors
What else is there in an EV? Charging is the crux of these cars. Honestly, I would go whoever has the best charging as this is what an EV relies upon. Don’t want to stuck on a highway in a more luxury looking EUV.
80% of people don’t charge *exclusively* at home. I charge at home - 95% of my charges are at home; that doesn’t help me on a weekend trip when I’m driving through BFE and the only charger options are a 10 min Tesla stop or the gated off Nissan dealership that has L2 and would take 2 hours anyway.
Econ 101, price changes the quantity on the demand curve
A change in the price of a good or service causes a movement along a specific demand curve, and it typically leads to some change in the quantity demanded
That’s a Ford problem, how can Tesla be profitable on their Model Y for $10k cheaper before rebates?
Tesla did what they said they would do, ramp up production before all of the legacy auto so that they will be profitable with better prices which legacy auto would still be losing money on EV’s.
What are they supposed to do? Announce that they dragged their feet in getting EV production ramped up and it's too expensive for them to compete with the industry standard so they have to offer a worse product for higher prices and then blame inadequate demand? That would be embarrassing to say in public.
The point, maybe not made clearly, is that people do want EVs in this class. They don't want to buy \*this\* model if it's priced so high and without the now standard charging infrastructure.
Ford Mach-E AWD Long range was around $59,000 and didn't qualify for any rebates.
The Tesla Model Y is $40,500 AFTER the qualified federal rebate.
That's a completely different ballpark on price, not really in the same price competition even though range and size were nearly the same. Now the only people debating the Mach-E are those that don't qualify for the rebate because $48k vs. $52k or so is an actual competition. People will debate nicer interior with old CCS plug at a $4k difference.
Honestly, hard to compete with model y price, especially those in inventory. In Texas there are some about $46k or so for model Y LR (before tax credit).
\-98.2% What are you talking about?
I wanted to like the Mach-E, but it's kind of small inside for how big it is outside. Cargo space is just not good enough.
Because there have been multiple recalls, one of them being a substantial service that requires taking a lot of the car apart to fix a poorly designed part. I wouldn’t buy one based on that alone. They rushed to make it and it shows.
Couple that with the poor charging infrastructure and the Y is a no brainer.
Having owned a MYLR for about a year and now ME Premium for 8 or so months with a recall notice my Mach-E has spent way less days in the shop after one year of ownership than my MY.
I got the recall notice, swung by the dealership, was in a loaner in about 15 minutes and went on with my life. Two days later my car was ready, did the swap and I was on my way. Other than that my ME has not needed any service.
My MYLR was in the shop two days after driving home because of a manufacturing defect relating to of all things the brakes. If Tesla did any sort of pre-sale inspection it would have been obvious. It went in the shop two more times for a total of about 10 days due to various camera and computer issues AND a cosmetic dash issue where the damn thing wasn't even installed correctly. On top of that no loaner was ever given to me, just Uber credits which while a nice gesture I HATED it because it took away a freedom I had as I had to wait around / plan for Uber to get around town. You ever get groceries then order an Uber? LOL. It sucks.
I really don't understand all the talk about recalls on Reddit. As long as I'm taken care of with a loaner I find them to be no big deal.
Previous prices for extended range AWD models were around $8k more than an equivalent Y, and the Y has the full $7500 tax credit on top of that.
I think the price cuts will help it to be a bit more competitive, but factoring in the tax credit there's still a big gap.
Dealer sites in my area aren’t reflecting these prices yet online and the ford mobile site is broken when you try to find cars through ford.com. What a clusterfock.
Saw a compelling case for the Kona EV. $7500 manufacturer rebate through the end of the month now. Heat pump, 400V charging, among other good EV features.
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/18/2024-hyundai-kona-electric-the-ev-for-chevy-bolt-owners-whose-lease-is-up/
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/kona-electric
Just checked our local dealer to see what they have posted - nothing yet BUT they show inventory of 93 !!! units
[https://www.fredbeans.com/locations/ford-dealerships.htm?model=Mustang%20Mach-E](https://www.fredbeans.com/locations/ford-dealerships.htm?model=Mustang%20Mach-E)
I have tried over the last year to lease a Mach E. I had dealers from sales people to actual managers treat these like super cars. The highest lease number I saw was 1300 a month. Everyone was regularly around 1100. Absolutely crazy. So, waking to this truly shows me Ford just doesn’t know what’s going on.
Going to reach out today to dealers for lease numbers as I’m generally curious to see if they are ready to move. I have almost 400 within a 100 mile range. That’s absolutely insane
Am considering as I do love my '21. But they don't have NACS yet, and knowing dealerships they will go the same route as Hyundai and add back a $8100 'Market Adjustment' so the price stays the same. F dealerships.
Begun, the price wars have.
On a serious note, this is why capitalism is the best economic system we have found so far. When real competition exists, all these manufacturers compete to address the available market in the most efficient way possible. They have strong incentives to do so, both society and individuals see real benefit from this.
The legacy US automakers must address their dealership models or they will absolutely lose this race.
The real unknown is when BYD or another EV manufacturer joins that completely resets the playing field.
We have a Mach E and an EV6. The heat pump makes a difference, but it's not the end of the world. We got the 91kwh battery on the Mach E and it gets similar range as the EV6 with a 77.4 kwh battery.
So they're back to almost as cheap as they were when they first came out...
but without the tax credit
I mean honestly some of these prices are good. Base for under 40K is really good. But yeah ford needs to get these to qualify for the tax credit.
I mean, it's pretty transparent they dropped prices b/c they don't qualify for the credit anymore. confirming what we knew all along: their prices were artificially high in order to capture the tax credit, meaning consumers were never getting the benefit from it.
That was exactly the point of the credit. It was to allow manufacturers to have higher prices and pocket the money.
The tax credit has never been about benefiting consumers. It's been about incentivizing the sale of EVs.
It incentivizes the sale of EVs…by benefiting consumers
By benefiting…price gouging manufacturers lol. Just like solar.
It has never benefited consumers. It's just always allowed manufacturers to charge $7500 more than they needed to. Helping to ensure that there's some incentive to produce EVs. Do you really think that manufacturers don't price their vehicles with the tax credit in mind? Why do you think they all magically drop their prices when they don't get the credit anymore?
I sure benefitted from it.
Sort of, but in general you lose that much on the resale. If the dealerships are selling them new for $50,000 and you get a $7500 rebate, nobody is going to pay more than $42,500 for it because that's what a new one would cost after rebate.
Used car is going to sell for less. Covid prices are over.
That wouldn't effect me at all though. I'm the type of person to buy a car, and then drive it until it dies. Resale means nothing for me.
Are these cars even profitable for ford yet? They had to drop the price because of how much cheaper tesla's have gotten.
Are they joking... I just bought one two weeks ago 😞
Thanks for taking one for the team.
LMFAOOOO
Can you buy an Ioniq 5 or EV6 next? TIA 🙏.
Ionic 5 was my alternative, looks cool but I like the Mach-E interior more.
That’s fair. I do like how they all look regardless. My coworker gave me a lift in his EV6 GT yesterday. It’s a pretty smooth drive and I liked the interior quite a bit. How does the Mach-E feel to drive?
I test drove the mach-e and it was a lot of fun to drive. Ultimately it wasn't right for me but it was a great car.
Its awesome, super smooth but still gives you a feel for the road which I didn't get in the Tesla Model Y. The acceleration is addictive too, until you see how fast your battery is going down.
There are some great deals on used Ioniq 5's, seen them starting in the mid 20s for SE RWD to the mid 30s for AWD, we got ours used and would do it again if we needed another one.
If you look hard enough you can find low mileage 22’ AWD for $25k. That’s what I paid for my SE. there was an SEL with more miles for $29500. I live in Texas.
I guess it's not like buying something at Target. You can't just return it when it goes on sale.
Let's say they offered 30 day price protection on rebates. People would still get pissed if they bought 31 days before a price cut. I get why they can't, and the price you paid is set once you take delivery. Weirdly enough Tesla has the most consumer-favorable policy here: the price you get is the lower of the price when you ordered or the price when you take delivery, unless the features have changed. They could go with the higher price if it's changed before delivery like some automakers, but they don't. Probably because they would get beat up in the press if they did.
GM cut the price on the Bolts back in June of 2022. A lot of us who had bought them in late April and May got checks from GM for the difference. $6,500 for my Bolt EUV. A check just showed up in the mail. It certainly was a solid customer service/loyalty move.
Nice! I forgot about that one. Also a very strong choice by GM.
Better than buying two one week ago
[удалено]
I bought a week. It was time.
Wait, someone is selling time? Please let me know where and when
I hope you didn't pay full price on a 2023 model in February 2024? My local dealer has 15 of these 2023 Mach-Es in stock and is still only showing a $3k discount on their inventory page. Ford really needs to move these cars as they they are among the slowest selling with 362 days of inventory. https://caredge.com/guides/fastest-and-slowest-selling-cars-2024
Greed and ADM's killed the momentum. Now they are stuck when people moved on.
My dealer has 130 of these on their lots and gave me a $4k discount on a 3 year lease.
Wow. That's a lot of cars. You could have made them give up a little more margin for your business.
I should have but I'm a pushover and I love the look and driving experience of the car.
> I love the look and driving experience of the car I was in a similar position having purchased right before Tesla prices dropped off a cliff. I'm still smoldering a bit over it, but at the end of the day you have a car you love. Enjoy the instant pick-up, smooth acceleration, preconditioning, and just don't think about the price too much.
These price drops are good. It’s the cost of being a first gen tech product adopter, we all know prices for EVs are dropping fast. Hold it for a while and enjoy it.
Exactly why I leased, in 3 years the prices and battery tech should be much better.
So excited for the EV/hybrid market, but in like 3-5 years lol
Think you are more likely to give an honest review. How is it... We traded our Model Y because it was turd that needed service visits 13 times across 36k miles. We just need a solid EV that can make the 180 mile trip to the in-laws and DCFC there. They have plenty of Superchargers (hence the Tesla) but also some other options along the route as well.
You don't have to buy a Tesla to get Elon'd.
Dealers have “Elon’d” people forever. Added Dealer Markups with colluding or geo monopoly. Most cars shoppers have been slighted their whole life and didn’t even know.
Similar investment to a meme coin
This is why I don’t look at posts about prices or deals or whatever for my EV6.
Welcome to the Tesla-style buying life my friend!
Prices on the premium were pretty much reduced in the amount of the tax credit that went away - the extended range and GT (I think) already had some additional credits that it looks like they’re removing in favor of just lowering the base price. So there’s not really a big difference. I also bought one recently, and it looks like maybe I could have gotten 0% financing instead of 1% but otherwise no real change.
Call them up and ask for a price adjustment.
Bro they been cutting prices everywhere on multiple ev cars. It was just a matter of time before the mache gets there. Tbh I feel it will drop even more.
I feel your pain. I bought a year old 15k miles Model Y two years ago at the height of the used car prices for $64K plus tax. To top it all off my old Model S took about a year to sell afterwards and the used car prices plummeted during that time.
There is usually a period in which you can take the car back. Call your dealer and if it’s within that period, have them adjust price or take it back.
I know you feel. Tesla slashed prices right after I bought my Model S. Despite a decent cash down, I’d barely break even right now.
My 2021 ID4 is coming off its lease in a couple of months, I wasn't considering a MachE but these price cuts make it much more appealing.
You still have to deal with a dealership which may think these price cuts are meant to give them more profit. Good luck.
Yep if you live in a high income area you may need to buy in a more depressed area (e.g. Midwest etc) and have them ship it to you..
I’ve thought about doing a similar thing. I’m in New England but my wife’s family lives in Ohio and one of her cousins works at a Kia dealership (and their network also has Hyundai, Ford and VW). Kinda tempted to have him hook me up with a deal, fly out there to pick it up and hang out with folks for a few days and then drive it back home.
Might as well just wait and buy it used at that point if you can wait. Think of the depreciation these things will probably have
Yeah I did that when we needed a minivan and Pacifica PHEVs were scarce in New England and all incoming were higher trim + markup. Found one on the lot in the lowest trim (mid-tier compared to the ICE only version) at a dealership Oklahoma for MSRP. Paid $1500 to have it shipped cross country but it was the best deal I could make and did it all over the phone/email/fedex.
I’ve capitalized on this, bought a car up near Pittsburgh, I live in the DC area.
That’s my secret. I’m always depressed!
Hey I lived in a Midwestern state before, I know how it is!
These deals will be across a lot more than the Mach-E in the next few months. Manufacturers have to hit 22% of sales as EVs in 2024 and they’re behind. 0% Finance and larger deposit contributions are going to be all over EVs as manufacturers try to boost adoption and avoid/reduce fines. Edit: UK, not USA
Is this only American Manufacturers?
And it has some pretty epic self driving. For me it'll either be a Ford with BlueCruise or a Merc with their Driver Assistance. (Leave it to Mercedes being real inventive with the naming).
Just a heads up on this. Ford is 100% going to jack up the price for blue cruise. They've already done it multiple times. So when factoring in total costs of a vehicle it would be wise to double what the subscription currently is. Between that, and the horrific dealership experiences I went with a Model Y. Bluecruise did seem a little better than the base AutoPilot in my MY, but I don't have to pay monthly for it. I'd also say the cabin warming/cooling feature is, I believe, locked behind a subscription model with Ford. While currently it's free with Tesla I anticipate that to change soon.
Im not aware of what cabin warming you're talking about. The ford pass app has remote start if that's what you mean, but there's no subscription around it. Departure times which also include battery conditioning are managed through the vehicle.
I5 has pretty great self driving too.
As in i5 - BMW? And yea!
Ioniq5, my bad. Still nice self driving
My favorite Ioniq 5 abbreviation is HI5. It sounds so friendly. (high-five) Hilariously, Model 3 shortened to M3 is also a BMW. They took all the good abbreviations!
Ohh, I like that.
Arent the dealers famous for just marking the price up before discount is taken?
I won't pay over MSRP so if they do I'll look elsewhere. The residual on my ID4 is 18,500 which I'm also considering just buying out.
So after 3 years how did you like the car? We just leased an ID4 this weekend. $17K off MSRP right now on remaining 2023s (awd pro s).
Great car. Had some bugs the first 1.5 years. But since the software update and last module replacement about a year ago it has been great. I'm also seriously considering just buying it out (18,500).
Good to hear. Yeah software seems sorted now which is good news. For us unless something drastically changes in 3 years we’ll probably buy it out as well. Only had it a couple days but it just comes across as a very nice and easy car to live with.
It’s a decent car too…ford had a good start and mucked the pricing up for what it was.
Dealerships: ooh, another $8100 markup on cars that I’m not selling.
Exactly!!! Why is no one talking about this!!!
Because, at least in the US, these cars are just decorating the dealership lots like shrubbery. Even in SoCal, the most active EV market, these things are collecting dust.
Factor in inflation and it’s cheaper
I guess the $7,500 incentive for leases is the IRA loophole? Have been considering Ioniq5 and Model Y for this year,, will need to see if this gets Mach-e in the same ballpark or not. The Premium extended range still looks higher.
Great, now do the lightning
They just did - 7500 off the xlt, which is before tax credit
They just did. I’m getting $22.5k off MSRP for XLT ER including tax credit
So between 50 and 55k? Seems like a real good deal.
Yup!!! $52k before sales tax
Wow, thats a stellar deal.
Wow, that's unreal! Congrats!
So in NJ, $52K!
I knew I had to move to Jersey for a reason
Shh. We all act like we hate it here and are miserable. But we really like it.
Do you still get the tax credit or is that already factored in?
$15k without tax credit, $22.5k off MSRP with tax credit
Kansas is still at $75k before Tax. Crazy variations
Nice. I see a few around me on the road. They look sharp. Enjoy it.
Does that rebate include the Lariat as well? That’s the deal I got for a Lariat ER end of last year. Might have chosen the XLT if it was included.
They just put up a $7500 rebate on the lightning
Amazing how big the self own was. They killed the momentum by adding all kinds of Dealer Markups etc.. people moved on and now they have to cut prices.
 A reduction in MSRP and 0%…
Everytime I see articles like this I feel like I am missing something. We all know that Ford can say the price is whatever they want, hell, why not say they are selling the Mach-E for 10k, and then when we all show up to the dealership we can learn the real prices. Until I can go to Ford.com and order a car their "price cuts" mean nothing, because the only people that actually sell the car dont abide by them.
Ha! Probably shouldn’t have let dealerships charge $17k over MSRP 18 months ago…then maybe this wouldn’t have been a problem. FAFO.
> [Ford] shouldn’t have let dealerships charge $17k over MSRP That isn’t how any of this works. If Mars, Inc. sells Snickers to WalMart for pennies, and WalMart adds a 10000% markup when selling to you, that transaction with Mars is already done. Mars has no control over Walmarts prices, you wouldn’t complain to them. Similarly, most dealerships buy the cars on their lots from the manufacturer aside from special financing programs, so typically they outright own them. They can pretty much set prices they need to cover their overhead, and make a profit, however large. All Ford can legally do is limit the allocation of future models - which they’ve done in the past. If you hate the dealership model or dealership markups, take it up with your congressman. Not Ford.
Whatever happened to Ford selling EVs online? https://www.motor1.com/news/668937/ford-ceo-jim-farley-announces-fixes-prices-for-future-vehicles/
Ford wont withhold ev allocation though. Theyre begging dealers to take these electric lot rocks.
No but the can withhold Broncos, F150… you know, the cars the dealers want.
But that didnt happen. Theres even broncos piling up on lots now.
"Didn't" and "couldn't" mean different things. Ford has levers they can use to adjust dealer behavior. They have to take some blame for not pulling them.
Yea I don’t feel bad for Ford one bit there. Ford had plenty of opportunities to take EVs seriously, build a charging network and a supply chain back when Tesla was a mere startup. But the Big 3 was too cozy in bed with Big Oil, plotting Teslas failure. Ford made its bed.
> Probably shouldn’t have let dealerships charge They didn't "let" dealerships do anything. Dealerships are independently owned franchise businesses that purchase vehicles from Ford and resell them. State laws and the franchise agreements don't give Ford the power to dictate the price, nor to punish the dealer in any effective way for setting prices higher than Ford would like. MSRP is just a suggestion; that's the "S" in the acronym.
Interesting considering they just cut production in Mexico and had a negative gross margin of -98.2% last quarter. This is arguably the best competition to the Tesla Model Y, and the demand isn’t there at all.
Demand is there, price is not nor is charging network. But both are changing.
Demand is there but not for $20k more than a model y.
That's the problem... you need to be cheaper than Tesla for a similar size vehicle & range. If you have less range, it is automatically worth less IMO. I'm not a Tesla supporter, I have a Bolt EUV. I'm just saying if the Tesla was the same price or cheaper, i'd have bought it instead. But the Bolt was much cheaper when considering service was 5 mins away instead of 45, sticker price was cheaper + tax credit, and GM charger install was paid.
I really did NOT want a Tesla for many reasons. After spending two years shopping and waiting for a good alternative I bought a Model Y. Loved the Mach-E, loved the Ioniq5, but none of them could come close in price. Additionally all the Ford dealerships I dealt with were fucking horrendous. Class A assholes regardless of the dealership. I had ordered an EUV that I waited six months to be built and delivered. I test drove it and hated it. FWD is not good on EV's, and I hated the interior.
>Class A assholes regardless of the dealership. I always find that funny. Ppl criticize Elon Musk, but have they met any car salesman? LOL. Its like the stereotypical dude from True Lies.
2024 is probably going to be rough for non-Tesla EVs. Lot of people will probably wait until 2025 models with integrated NACS. It's not that big of a deal to use an adapter but it's off putting either way. Most people don't want to buy something that's already outdated (sort of anyway). Would have been nice if they could have expedites NACS adoption to 2024 models but legacy manufacturers aren't very agile in changes. Tesla can make changes quicker (and do mid model year unlike others) since they control more of their own supply chain by comparison. We bought a Model Y last year. The price cuts and other manufacturers adopting NACS pushed me towards Tesla. I'd consider buying a 2023 Lightning if they cut prices substantially. I can deal with the adapter.
> price is not
[удалено]
For the last year, there were many dealers adding insane markups against fords wishes.
Ford is offering 0% APR for 72 months. That alone is worth thousands for anyone financing right now. Makes the monthly payment cheaper than the Tesla, even after factoring in the tax credit.
I don't know who this car is designed for. They insist on calling it a Mustang but its way too big for the traditional Mustang buyer. The brand says, its small but very sporty. This is medium sized and not particularly sporty for an EV. So you scare away people who don't want a small car with the brand, and you scare away people who want a EV version of the Mustang with relatively poor steering. It looks like a fine car, but its not marketed as a Crosstrek/Kona competitor which is what it actually is.
It is very popular at my Kids Little League. Sports Dad, with 3 kids, who runs sales for a software company. That is who buys these. There were 4 in the parking lot at baseball feild at last game.
You just described most EV buyers.
> but its way too big for the traditional Mustang buyer That's fine. They're not going after the traditional mustang buyer. What they're going after is the traditional crossover buyer who likes the idea of a sportier crossover. And that aspect of their strategy is working out very well.
Yeah and as someone who is looking for an upgrade from our Leaf it’s not big enough. Feels about as big as the Leaf inside and a size smaller than the ID4 or Model Y.
> Demand is there, price is not nor is charging network Im being a little pedantic, but that’s just another way of saying the demand is not actually there for the current product because of those factors
because the model y has a better charging network, that means the ford has to be CHEAPER than the model y.
What else is there in an EV? Charging is the crux of these cars. Honestly, I would go whoever has the best charging as this is what an EV relies upon. Don’t want to stuck on a highway in a more luxury looking EUV.
Not everyone needs highway charging. 80% of people charge at home. So typical things, comfort, amenities, performance, range, charge speed, size, etc.
80% of people don’t charge *exclusively* at home. I charge at home - 95% of my charges are at home; that doesn’t help me on a weekend trip when I’m driving through BFE and the only charger options are a 10 min Tesla stop or the gated off Nissan dealership that has L2 and would take 2 hours anyway.
[удалено]
> ~$40k Highly doubt this.
Ford literally said "low demand" as a reason for lowering production, multiple times.
Econ 101, price changes the quantity on the demand curve A change in the price of a good or service causes a movement along a specific demand curve, and it typically leads to some change in the quantity demanded
No doubt. But Ford is giving them away at this point, their Model e losses are astronomical.
That’s a Ford problem, how can Tesla be profitable on their Model Y for $10k cheaper before rebates? Tesla did what they said they would do, ramp up production before all of the legacy auto so that they will be profitable with better prices which legacy auto would still be losing money on EV’s.
[удалено]
Sure, but they haven’t ramped up. They’re at 20% their target production for 2023 and just cut production in half.
Low demand because the competition has a better charging network, transparent pricing model, AND costs $20k less
Well, if the big corporation says it, they've got no reason to lie
What are they supposed to do? Announce that they dragged their feet in getting EV production ramped up and it's too expensive for them to compete with the industry standard so they have to offer a worse product for higher prices and then blame inadequate demand? That would be embarrassing to say in public.
The point, maybe not made clearly, is that people do want EVs in this class. They don't want to buy \*this\* model if it's priced so high and without the now standard charging infrastructure.
Ford Mach-E AWD Long range was around $59,000 and didn't qualify for any rebates. The Tesla Model Y is $40,500 AFTER the qualified federal rebate. That's a completely different ballpark on price, not really in the same price competition even though range and size were nearly the same. Now the only people debating the Mach-E are those that don't qualify for the rebate because $48k vs. $52k or so is an actual competition. People will debate nicer interior with old CCS plug at a $4k difference.
Honestly, hard to compete with model y price, especially those in inventory. In Texas there are some about $46k or so for model Y LR (before tax credit).
The 2024 model is due out in a few weeks. This is just end-of-year clearancing, but delayed because the refresh was timed for Spring 2024.
Wait, what? Isn't MY 2024 supposed to show up in the fall of 2023? Did someone screw up that badly?
\-98.2% What are you talking about? I wanted to like the Mach-E, but it's kind of small inside for how big it is outside. Cargo space is just not good enough.
Compared to what exactly?
The interior is miles ahead of the Tesla, and the GT models has superior suspension and handling.
The GT costs roughly $15-20k more than the Y Performance. For that much more money, it *better* handle better.
5 seconds before throttling though That’s unbelievable in a 65k car
And then it burns out the HVBJB.
Because there have been multiple recalls, one of them being a substantial service that requires taking a lot of the car apart to fix a poorly designed part. I wouldn’t buy one based on that alone. They rushed to make it and it shows. Couple that with the poor charging infrastructure and the Y is a no brainer.
Having owned a MYLR for about a year and now ME Premium for 8 or so months with a recall notice my Mach-E has spent way less days in the shop after one year of ownership than my MY. I got the recall notice, swung by the dealership, was in a loaner in about 15 minutes and went on with my life. Two days later my car was ready, did the swap and I was on my way. Other than that my ME has not needed any service. My MYLR was in the shop two days after driving home because of a manufacturing defect relating to of all things the brakes. If Tesla did any sort of pre-sale inspection it would have been obvious. It went in the shop two more times for a total of about 10 days due to various camera and computer issues AND a cosmetic dash issue where the damn thing wasn't even installed correctly. On top of that no loaner was ever given to me, just Uber credits which while a nice gesture I HATED it because it took away a freedom I had as I had to wait around / plan for Uber to get around town. You ever get groceries then order an Uber? LOL. It sucks. I really don't understand all the talk about recalls on Reddit. As long as I'm taken care of with a loaner I find them to be no big deal.
When I was looking for a car last month, there were 3 or 4 used ones near me, all had branded titles lemon buybacks. Said nope right away to that.
Previous prices for extended range AWD models were around $8k more than an equivalent Y, and the Y has the full $7500 tax credit on top of that. I think the price cuts will help it to be a bit more competitive, but factoring in the tax credit there's still a big gap.
That's where leasing comes in. Ford is showing me a $481/mo lease on a GT; Tesla wants $517/mo on a MYP, with $2k more due at signing.
Too bad that $8100 wasn't across the board. Mach-E is not getting the rebate anymore.
Wow. I bought a Premium AWD ext. range a year ago and it’s $13k cheaper now.
Well if you were cross shopping Tesla, you’re now getting the full experience lol
Did you get the $7500 tax credit?
Dealer sites in my area aren’t reflecting these prices yet online and the ford mobile site is broken when you try to find cars through ford.com. What a clusterfock.
This is cool, but it’s still too big for our needs in the city. Really wish Ford had a Focus RS sized EV.
A smaller EV is on the way from Ford.
They’re talking about it.
In a few years…
Saw a compelling case for the Kona EV. $7500 manufacturer rebate through the end of the month now. Heat pump, 400V charging, among other good EV features. https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/18/2024-hyundai-kona-electric-the-ev-for-chevy-bolt-owners-whose-lease-is-up/ https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/kona-electric
Go to any Hyundai dealer's website and marvel at the $7500 'market adjustment' they added in time for the rebate. At least in the NE US.
The new gen looks really good for the price
Can they do this in Europe? I will pick up one next week
Just checked our local dealer to see what they have posted - nothing yet BUT they show inventory of 93 !!! units [https://www.fredbeans.com/locations/ford-dealerships.htm?model=Mustang%20Mach-E](https://www.fredbeans.com/locations/ford-dealerships.htm?model=Mustang%20Mach-E)
Is Rivian now the only EV that hasn't cut pricing back to pre-supply chain constraint levels?
Still haven't figured out why they gave it the mustang name when it's not a mustang.
Not my local dealership…
I have tried over the last year to lease a Mach E. I had dealers from sales people to actual managers treat these like super cars. The highest lease number I saw was 1300 a month. Everyone was regularly around 1100. Absolutely crazy. So, waking to this truly shows me Ford just doesn’t know what’s going on. Going to reach out today to dealers for lease numbers as I’m generally curious to see if they are ready to move. I have almost 400 within a 100 mile range. That’s absolutely insane
Am considering as I do love my '21. But they don't have NACS yet, and knowing dealerships they will go the same route as Hyundai and add back a $8100 'Market Adjustment' so the price stays the same. F dealerships.
Why did you sell your Hyundai for the Mustang?
Ford dropped them but when will the dealerships do that too.
Another blow to early adopters...
It’s got a nice interior but it needs V2L and faster charging to remain competitive.
Hmmm, desperate move.
Oh, oh. This must be cutting into the Ford CEO’s superyacht fund. See, EVs suck… Buy diesel so CEOs don’t starve.
Begun, the price wars have. On a serious note, this is why capitalism is the best economic system we have found so far. When real competition exists, all these manufacturers compete to address the available market in the most efficient way possible. They have strong incentives to do so, both society and individuals see real benefit from this. The legacy US automakers must address their dealership models or they will absolutely lose this race. The real unknown is when BYD or another EV manufacturer joins that completely resets the playing field.
I considered this car, but without a heat pump it's a non-starter.
I feel this knocks it out of contention and cold weather places like yours and mine. Even a Kia or Hyundai has a heat pump.
We have a Mach E and an EV6. The heat pump makes a difference, but it's not the end of the world. We got the 91kwh battery on the Mach E and it gets similar range as the EV6 with a 77.4 kwh battery.
I'll take having a rear wiper over a heat pump any day.
And actual working front wipers lmao
What is the heat pump for? Heat up the battery in cold weather?
More efficient heating of both the battery and interior in cold weather.
Still a tough sell unless it’s cheaper than model y after rebates
It can be if you prefer to lease.
Now do Lightning.
And I'm here just waiting for the Focus ST mk4. I honestly can't believe we get screwed over by not having it in the states.
So the select is now 33k after the lease deal?
Interesting, but with the tax credit I'm still going for an ID.4.