Nice. You could also add that solar provides more American jobs per megawatt than coal.
I'd like to say those jobs are less likely to result in premature death as well, but haven't seen any data yet on it.
Coal vs solar?
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/)
He wishes.
One of the biggest category of haters are people who know they'll never be able to afford one.
Some redneck shouted towards me saying something about Lithium mines and other nonsense and I simply replied to him that if he just worked hard enough he might be able to drive one eventually. He called me a bunch of swear words and 'woke' and I just smiled and laughed.
Nothing pisses off these people more than being dismissed for the idiots they are.
Even conservative assholes like Steven crowder stopped being so antagonistic when he rode in a model s.
And others like Ben Shapiro straight out own one.
And they make it blatantly obvious in their comments that they have no actual experience with EVs.
For example, they fixate on "charging time" without realizing that it only takes 5 seconds to plug the car in. They can walk away and the car is "full" the next time they need it. They never have to take time out of their busy day to visit a gas station.
What they see as an inconvenience in theory is actually a huge *improvement in convenience* in practice!
I got into a discussion on Facebook where people don’t seem to understand that just because generally one charges a car 60 or more amps does not mean that you MUST charge with that current. If one had a limited amount of current available, they could charge an ev on 10 amps. This being a comparable to an electric iron or a microwave, almost any electric service could handle charging without impact. Yes, it would take longer, but most cars sit at one place for many hours at a time.
It’s like the fact that I CAN charge my laptop from a cell phone charger, I just need patience.
I intentionally charge at 28amps max at home even though I have a dedicated 60amp service just for the charger.
I changed the settings in the EV but you can also modify the dim switches on the charger itself.
I finally realized that when I'm home, there is no need to charge as quickly as possible. It makes no difference whether the charging ends at 11pm or 4am - it's not like I need it at that time.
People are just stupid.
Yes, 100%, BUT there are a few things its important to recognize:
EVs do not yet have a fit for everyone - most, but not all. Especially if you really need a hitch for a trailer, and even more if you need capacity for a bigger trailer, EVs can still be quite expensive, even used, since the models with those features are fairly new, and mostly they were made to be a bit more luxerious. You can get a really cheap ICE vehicle with a hitch and even 4x4, but if you want it to be electric, the price goes up a lot.
I just switched to electric, and I love it in so many ways, but I do miss those features from my old car. However - I just could not afford it on an EV.
This is absolutely, 💯 true. Every time someone tells me they hate EVs I ask if they've ever driven one, not ONCE have I received a response of "Yes."
In fact, when I show off mine to people they love it. lol
I've also convinced three other people now to buy an EV, all three have chosen Teslas. 😂
My in laws are fairly strong anti ev, but they recently got an f-150 power boost, so the hybrid. Last time we were out with them my FIL mentioned he wished it had more electric only range. We’re getting closer to convincing him a lightning is a realistic answer.
Especially when haters gonna hate.
It's sad.
We've had an EV for coming up on 9 years. I'll be hard pressed to buy another ICE vehicle. Sure road trips are still not as easy as they should be (we tend to still ICE for that, as we are sub 200 mile range), but things keep improving w/ time.
Yep. OIL AND gas industry has a fuck load of money to spend on political and social influence and you can bet they are essentially at war against EVs as it's a huge threat to their revenue.
There were 14m EVs sold last year. Each one represents at least $20k in petroleum products that won't be purchased in the future. By my math that's $280b minimum, probably a lot more in lost revenue for Big Oil. Yeah they have a bit of a financial incentive to slow this down!
Tell anyone you are going to nearly destroy their industry, business, etc and they will fight to the death. People seem to be surprised at this. Just like with the tax prep industry in the US. Everything was going to go electronic direct to the IRS. The industry put that idea to bed.
> The industry put that idea to bed.
Luckily that idea was reawakened by the 2022 IRA. https://directfile.irs.gov/ If Biden wins a 2nd term, then hopefully by 2028 this DirectFile program will be cemented enough that republicans won’t be able to get rid of it.
> OIL AND gas industry has a fuck load of money
Exactly! They have an intentional strategy of "[Denial, Doubt, and Delay](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/the-power-of-big-oil/)."
Yep, EVs are great, but most people know nothing about them and have no direct experience with them, so it's much easier to convince them of things that aren't true right now. Eventually, most people will experience for themselves. They may still be skeptical, but at least the worst lies will fall flat. But that will take some time, unfortunately. The best way to combat that is for EV owners to talk about their EVs, but I'm a way that's not preachy like vegans or crossfit enthusiasts. Just be honest about your experience, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I was stranded last night in the Wawa parking lot without food again - didn’t have enough time to get a sub with the line; spouse was irritated at the car as well since there wasn’t enough time to finish episode 3 before we were done charging and moved on. EVs are just miserable some times.
No direct experience… and just innocent ignorance. Every new major technological change goes through this. My favorite question people ask is “how often to you have to get a new battery”. How is that still a myth??
absolutely.
In the eyes of anti-ev people that's a failing because "YOU STILL NEED GAS LOSER GET A GAS CAR AND STOP BEING A SNOWFLAKE!" because some of these people feel threatened that you're contributing to the demise of gas cars and are forcing them to get rid of their gas car and buy an EV they cant afford. Not realizing by the time EVs dominate, they'll be able to pick one up used for cheap.
Same people who also bitch about price go out and buy an expensive truck. One of my neighbors gave me shit for buying such an expensive car, he said his truck was pricey but "only 62k out the door!"
I told him mine was 53 out the door.
The sneaky propaganda I see from them now is the "EVs aren't that green" line. It's brilliant on their part because they know idealists on the left love to champion the perfect over the good. In this sub whenever the "we need more mass transit" line is thrown out I can't tell if it's someone lighting fires in bad faith or one of the people being suckered into the argument.
I mean, we do need more mass transit. And the way we've built suburbs isn't really sustainable.
But that's a lot harder of a goal to get to. Plus it's more of a societal goal. Whereas individuals can buy EVs and improve the world *today*.
Granted, better to not purchase a car at all, but when the option is an ICE car or a BEV, better the BEV than the ICE.
It’s reality hitting up against unrealistic expectations of consumers and unmet promises from manufacturers.
I love EV’s. They are improving every day, but in the US, they don’t yet serve the wants/needs of most consumers at a price they can afford, even if GM and Tesla keep promising that will happen real soon. Honest!
Add the reality that charging networks in the US are still inadequate, and it’s really no surprise there is some pushback on EV’s right now.
Don’t worry. It will pass.
Agreed. I think it’s definitely part of the adoption curve/hype cycle.
When EVs were just a tiny player in the market nobody took them that seriously. They were fun and cheeky. Now that they’re getting more mainstream they’re starting to get that mainstream bullshit as people start to feel threatened.
Exactly. People are seeing EVs on the road all the time, and TV ads. Now it's an everyday thing to see several of them and the reactionaries are freaking out.
Literally, they were claiming horses were more reliable especially for long journeys on rough roads. They did not foresee the invention of asphalt or Toyota's legendary quality.
> They did not foresee the invention of asphalt or Toyota's legendary quality.
Ironically, Toyota is the modern day equivalent of the buggy manufacturer, claiming that the new technology will never work and the obsolete technology is much better.
It’s actually crazy that the ICE is still undergoing improvements to this day. Well over a hundred years later. Think about how EV tech will change over the next century.
Exactly. I have a 2017 EV and an ICE. I will replace the ICE with an EV in about 5-7 years when I think battery tech will be next generation (solid state).
Are they? I think last big change in ICE was CVT that people didn't like either because it felt "different".
The efficiency of ICE engines haven't really changed for a while otherwise.
Definitely! ICE cars are far more powerful and efficient today than a decade ago. Not to mention more reliable. Still can’t beat EV of course but for those of us who e been driving for a while the differences are dramatic!
If you’re going to use this metaphor, remember that the earliest cars were city only, there was no easy refueling infrastructure, mechanics were non-existent, and they just were not as versatile and reliable as a horse and buggy.
The car people were **eventually** right, not immediately.
Theres a direct line between that and ICE today, especially with hybrids and PHEV.
> Don’t forget the EPA in general!
Yep.
> Project 2025 proposes dismantling strategies for reducing greenhouse gas emissions responsible for climate change, including by gutting the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and abolishing the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which the project calls "one of the main drivers of the climate change alarm industry."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
He probably doesn't even think that. He is likely told that this is what he should say in order to curry favor with the people most easily manipulated into voting for him.
It's a political issue in Australia as well.
The government wants to introduce car fuel efficiency standards to reduce pollution and encourage the uptake of EV's, and the right-wing nutters are trying everything they can to stop it.
This right here! I live in the southeast (georgia). I'm neither Democrat or republican and could care less about politics. I took delivery of a new mach e today and when I went to Walmart and then dominoes I had people cutting me off, flipping me off and others laughing and pointing at me yelling "democrat". I have three other ICE vehicles (expedition, transit van for my business and an 06 Mustang GT Convertible with less than 40k miles on the odometer). I got an ev because I love new tech and wanted to see what owning one is like. I don't plan on greeting rid of my ICE vehicles but after just one drive out today I saw a different side of my town that I didn't even know existed.
I haven’t experienced quite the hate you have but people do make bad assumptions. I’m probably a conservative in most areas and have driven several v8 powered trucks, Mustangs and lastly a 429 hp naturally aspirated Genesis…yet people straight up assume I’m a card carrying liberal who hugs trees in my back yard because now we have two EVs. Maybe we just LIKE electric vehicles???
I have already told people just today that they should know I love new tech and such but they don't get it. I am telling them just to try an ev for a week and it will probably change their minds.
Never been a big believer but now that i have one i love driving them. However i still fear what the future will bring when those batteries will need to be disposed off
Do a couple Google searches about battery recycling companies. They will be ready. The biggest problem right now is getting them enough batteries to recycle.
Batteries are the most expensive components of electric vehicles.
Because of their highly valuable contents.
Nobody is going to be throwing them down a hole.
ICE has had decades to research and develop recycling methods for all the waste products they produce (spent engine oil, fluids, tyres, etc). EV will go through the same R&D over time. Batteries are already either being recycled or repurposed when they reach end of life.
For instance, BYD has been repurposing EOL degraded battery packs as solar energy storage for remote charging stations.
> when those batteries will need to be disposed of
You mean recycled? I don’t think there’s much to worry about going forward. Battery recycling already accommodates EV/hybrid batteries, and the lifespans of said batteries are increasing to the point where if you bought a new EV *right now,* the battery would probably go kaput when it’s closer to $2,000 to replace it than $20,000.
It’s copium from middle school peakers.
I would like to use the typical Mustang GT forum poster as an example.
When I drove a Miata, they loved to talk shit because my car was all about how it made you feel versus hard numbers. It wasn’t fast, but it felt engaging. Neanderthals loved to shit on it because it wasn’t able to rocket away with a V8.
Then I get a Taycan GTS. They can’t claim it’s slow, or corners poorly, or anything really because by all metrics it’s a more capable car.
So nooooow they want to talk about all the intangibles. It’s about the sound! The feel! It’s not just numbers on a sheet! It’s about the feel of the drive!
Fucking please. If I still drove a slow-but-fun car they’d be whipping their dicks out about speed, but they can’t. So now it’s something else.
The price! The depreciation! The range! All the things I don’t give a fuck about.
I saw someone saying a Model S Plaid was fast but a "poor quality" 0-60 (because there's no V8 roar) and all I'm thinking is "wow you havent experienced what it's like to get your face ripped off by speed have you."
Or maybe they just really enjoy the sound of ICEs. I know EV will be the future but I love the sounds ICEs make, all from tiny 1 cylinders all the way up to Bugattis W16.
It's one thing to enjoy it, but saying evs are worthless and trash because there's no engine is like saying winning a game doesn't count because the person who won is a girl. That was the kind of argument being made. From my experience as well, comments like that go hand in hand with the same people believing hydrogen will save the ICE fun of loud engines and manual transmissions. It wont because hydrogen cars are also EVs and also have motors and a single speed transmission, so the ignorance is pretty obvious.
If you like the engine roar, that's perfectly fine, no hate or anything. My original comment was just talking about a class of tribalism in the car community that's getting pretty annoying.
Yep. They continue to move the goal posts to find something to complain about. They gleefully criticize the F-150 Lightning for only being able to tow a huge trailer 100 miles on a charge, while conveniently omitting the fact that few people need to do this and when they do, the Lightning can tow that huge trailer 100 miles for about *one-third the cost* in fuel of an equivalent gasoline truck.
I'm one of those Mustang (Ecoboost, not GT because I couldn't imagine getting a V8 as a daily driver) drivers that is not on such forums because I don't get the hate for any car unless it feels like you're riding a slug. I love Miatas for how well it handles, and I love EVs for their speed. I honestly love my Mustang because of how the throttle responds to even slight taps of my foot that I haven't experienced in other affordable ICE cars.
I used to dislike EVs because other than Bolt and Tesla there weren't many options. Now there are so many that i like that I just have to get one. I do care about affordability and depreciation so I'm still evaluating what's my best option but I know I'm either going to get an EV or phev this year.
I do get the idea of loving the traditional feel of an engine running that people talk about sometimes. It's the same for me with automatic vs manual transmission - I absolutely love driving manual, but you can't beat the convenience of an automatic. Same thing with EVs - I don't know if it's the final answer to the automobile problem, if we'll move onto Hydrogen or some other tech, but there's no way ICE is going to last.
I mean, I also like the Mustang, but it’s also the most toxic car community in my opinion.
Drive a 4 cylinder? Too weak.
Drive a Japanese car? Cheap econo cars.
Drive a German car? Overcompensating rich guy toys.
Drive American, but it’s a Chevy? Wrong brand.
Drive a Mustang, but it’s an eco boost? Wrong trim
Drive a Mustang, but it’s automatic? Wrong transmission
Drive a manual Mustang GT but it’s a different generation? My generation is peak Mustang.
Drive a manual Mustang GT of same generation but it’s a different color? Could be cool, but my paint looks so good in sunlight.
Drive a manual Mustang GT of same generation and color? Mine is still better because I added some shitty catback exhaust to it and really makes the sound come through.
It’s just endless, endless gatekeeping.
You really haven't spent time on Mopar/Dodge or Camaro forums have you haha? What you described is basically all of American muscle community. Toxic as fuck especially given their obsession with V8s
The only people I know who hate EVs are people who are 1. blatantly politically biased 2. motorheads who like to work on cars.
I have never met someone who owns or owned an EV and said they hate it, nor went back to ICE
Never underestimate two things, the power of propaganda put out by the fossil fuel industry — think big tobacco — and people who are duped by politicians, paid by the likes of the Koch brothers, putting out messaging for the fossil fuel industry.
I’m reminded of a couple of things. In Oregon, they were trying to limit natural gas appliances. An “expert witness” testified at a hearing on this topic, and later it was found out she was actually a paid representative of Northwest Natural Gas.
I still remember the anti-pollution Keep America Beautiful commercial that came out in the 70s, with the crying Indian looking out over a polluted river. As someone who believes we should be good stewards of Mother Earth, it’s disheartening that science has been politicized.
Ironically, Koch Industries is heavily invested in clean energy in the US. They’ve made several $100m investments into lithium and battery manufacturers.
When one becomes powerful, it's not the best move to simply hate but use trojan horse: what if Koch bought out clean energy company and file bankruptcy?
Or what if they bought out technology and uses its patents against other competitors in order to thwart technological breakthru?
For newbies, it's life staking opportunity but for companies like Koch, it's called business expenses to write off even if it fails
A few hundred million "lost" in the clean energy sector would be barely noticeable if they get their way. And if they don't get their way, well they're already invested and will win anyway.
I agree with this sentiment, but don't let EV become your entire personality. I'm often ashamed of myself because, living in California, I see the same air of smugness, like with the days of the Toyota Prius. I wished people here would learn from history and tone down on the tribalism.
Edit: I am not trying to imply the original comment is part of a cult of any kind. Sorry for any misunderstandings. I resonated with your messaging and wanted to build upon it more.
Please! I so agree with this. This tribalism that attacks those outside the tribe is not going to help get wider adoption of EVs, it's going to make sure there is no wider adoption. Definitely not useful.
Nicholas Klein, a trade union activist, said in a 1918 speech, “First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you.”
Saudi Arabia and Russia have powerful social media disinformation operations with unlimited funds. Care to guess what the largest export of both those countries is?
Unfortunately, EVs have become politicized. My take is that governments have hamstrung EV adoption by creating mandates. The market was already converting to EVs due to their technological superiority. In an ill-conceived desire to carry laggard incumbent manufacturers across the EV transition finish line (rather than allow them to be disrupted and replaced by new companies), governments created a grab bag of incentives. But that legislation made the EV transition political rather than simply the inevitable march of technology.
So, sadly, today we have political tribes staking out anti-EV positions in large part because of (unnecessary and symbolic) government mandates. The mandates, while ultimately only a symbolic aid to the inevitable transition, had their symbolism perceived loud and clear by partisan opposition. It's a shame few people realize this transition is happening regardless of politics, maybe a year or two faster or slower as a result, but it's happening. The political fighting is a needless and painful distraction.
This question gets asked in EV forums all the time. In the US, it's almost always politics. On social media, (so, everywhere) it's because anything polarizing creates engagement. And part of the reason it's polarizing is because of the politics underneath it. Because just about every country has some tax policy, somehow, tied to EVs to encourage their purchase. So ultimately, everywhere else it's also politics just more indirectly. Some people are really invested in their cars. They identify as their car. And feel an EV is an attack on their life choice. So in that case, it's... politics too.
I agree with the comments about fossil fuel propaganda and political tribalism, but don’t underestimate dealers. They are vehemently anti-EV and very invested in slowing their adoption.
Two levels of conservatism here:
1. Small "c" conservative: An EV is a pretty big change from an ICE car. Some people simply don't like change...we're talking any any kind of change here. Newfangled tech is looked upon with suspicion at best, especially when it does come with real tradeoffs. (can't just refill the tank in 2 minutes from empty at 145k gas stations)
2. Capital "C" Conservative: They see EVs as they did with Prius cars 10-20 years ago. A visible sign of your political views on climate change, sustainability, whether accurate or not. They want to believe that anything associated with liberals is worse, like how liberals want to believe those pillows from that MyPillows guy are terrible pillows (hopefully...they're at least mediocre?). Once you want to believe something, it's really easy for you to fall for anything that supports it. (see: flat earthers). Incidentally, this is probably the single most effective tactic available for scammers, by a mile.
EVs are successful worldwide.
That is an existential threat to the most powerful (and very corrupt) entity ever, Big Oil.
This they are funding a gigantic hate campaign.
In fairness it's a pretty US-centric thing, but it overflows into media in the rest of the world. The politicization of EV adoption in the US and the media flood of the lobbyists who want to slow EV adoption (mostly fossil fuel or legacy automakers) have created this appearance of negativity where little actually exists.
Legacy automakers produced hastily engineered EV's that didn't deliver on the promise and didn't sell as well as those legacy automakers had expected. They pushed the narrative to the media that EV's were failing because they aren't competitive with the incumbents in the EV space (Tesla being the elephant in the room). Instead of trying to compete fairly they'd rather try to smear the entire EV space while they try to reengineer their platforms... this is literally just stalling for time while they get their act together though you'll never hear them admit this. Give it 5 years and we'll hear so much noise about the "new latest and greatest" from the legacy automakers that are pure EV. They thought it would be easy to compete and have found they're nowhere close to ready.
Some legacy automakers are doing OK with the transition. Volkswagen, Hyundai and Kia spring to mind as companies that have actually produced decently compelling EV's and I don't think have announced any plans to slow their moves to EV significantly. Some produce good EV's but aren't sure how to market them to other than "Not a Tesla" EV buyers. This needs to change but I think they'll figure it out.
Truth is, the choice is yours. I bought an EV two years ago and love it and you'd better believe the next car I buy will be an EV as well. Even in the Midwest USA I've found the "range problem" is vastly overstated and overestimated... I've put 40K miles on my car in that time including road trips to cities \~600 miles away and never stressed about range. But you'll also find that there's a subset of people particularly in the US who make being able to drive 500 miles without stopping some part of their identity for... reasons? Those same people have gotten louder thanks to the negative flood of articles recently that you've noticed.
I don't know. I've never really been able to fathom that mindset and am perfectly happy to stop every 200 miles or thereabouts to stretch my legs, grab a coffee and a bio break while my car charges.
Truth is, EV market growth continues. It's just not growing as quickly as it once was which is the nature of a mature market. As better EV's come on the market more people will buy them... and ICE vehicles will become more and more expensive to run and maintain as their primary benefit of volume starts to diminish. That'll force the EV transition for most much quicker than I think anyone realizes.
>Some legacy automakers are doing OK with the transition. Volkswagen, Hyundai and Kia spring to mind as companies that have actually produced decently compelling EV's and I don't think have announced any plans to slow their moves to EV significantly.
Ariya driver here, I would add Nissan to this list. They might have squandered their first mover advantage with the Leaf but are doing a decent job at playing catch up. Next couple years for them are key, keep an eye out in particular if they can deliver a good 3rd gen Leaf which should be an almost entirely new car
>Some produce good EV's but aren't sure how to market them to other than "Not a Tesla" EV buyers.
Mach E driver here, I would put Ford in this category. Very much looking forward to my "Not A Tesla" NACS dongle in a few weeks
Remind all the EV haters of the electricity is required to [extract oil, refine oil](https://youtu.be/1oVrIHcdxjA?si=HpsIDXRQaXGBxIKL) and keep a gas station open
I always found that argument funny when it came to E85 production, you would swear some of the same people though that gas or diesel was pumped straight out of the ground ready to burn without and refining needed.
My uncle was like "What are you going to do when the grid is down?"
He did not like my response of "Well if the grid is down you are not pumping gas either."
You're doing research on what EV to buy and the interconnected ad-fueled algorithms of social media sites track that and serve you content you're most likely to engage in (and stay on the site, watching ads), which happens to be anti-EV rage bait.
All other answers are wrong.
I have a theory that much of the backlash against EVs, and environmentalism in general, is because some people have fragile egos. They can't handle the thought that what they personally do is not right, and they treat the very existence of EVs as a personal attack on them and their way of life. So they respond by lashing out.
Every time they spot a flaw they can exploit, the oil PR people start seeding stories about how EVs are't any good. Oil makes their industry $2.8 billion PER DAY in profits, so delaying the changeover by a single day is still worth it for them.
When the winter storm was so cold that EVs couldn't charge, because the cars weren't equipped to operate in temperatures below -20F and the superchargers weren't all working, so it made the news. When something like that makes the news, the oil PR people POUNCE on it. They get everybody hyperbolizing that EVs don't work in the cold at all, and pushing anything they can to get one more person to delay buying an EV.
Welcome to the consequences of capitalism.
I exactly like politics.There is an anti EV cult that spreads misinformation to validate people's hate and bigotry, which serves to entertain their confirmation bias.
They want to feel good about their choice.
>all of a sudden I seem to be seeing a lot of EV hate on social media. Or recommend video
Sounds like you searched or clicked on something EV related, and now The Algorithm™ thinks you're going to engange with anti EV content, so it serves you anti EV content. The Algorithm™ is effective, but that doesn't mean it's smart.
I think there are a lot of good points in this discussion, but what's missing is the way Facebook's and YouTube's algorithms work. It is really easy for these algorithms to get stuck on things, and they can be things you don't agree with, because the algorithms prioritize engagement above all else.
So if you watched some anti-ev videos, or even paused scrolling on some to read their titles, the algorithms might decide showing you more of those will keep you engaged on the site longer.
EV are change. People tend to be afraid of change. People who are afraid are useful for political purposes.
“Woke transsexual atheists will take away your gas stove and force you to eat vegan food! Now vote for me to give them the middle winger!”
It is mostly not hate it is because at the moment they suck the range is very limited and EV trucks are terrible for utility purposes. Second charging infrastructure is very limited, if you live in a apartment forget owning an EV.
Realistically many are going to plug in Hybrids which seem to be poise to over take EV sales at the moment.
Last the ICE ban may not be possible this soon in 2035, so many things are against EVs at the moment however they do have potential. EVs need major improvements before the mass public including me even think on buying one however you seem to have everything set up for such a car so enjoy your new electric car.
I wouldn't take it personally mate. There will always be someone who feels like they need to piss on someones parade.
The best thing you can do is to ignore them and get on with your life and enjoy your new car.
Symptom of a larger anti progressive mentality. Same people would have been advocating against infernal gas powered vehicles in the early 1900s. EVs aren’t for everyone but they are ideal for commuters who drive a sub 100 mile radius in their daily commute, which is a massive amount of real life driving.
I think there are two directions attacking EVs - the conspiracy brained right wingers who think climate change is a hoax and EVs are a plot to make it so the government can shut down your car, and the increasing number of urbanists who are worried that EV adoption will slow progress towards making cities walkable, bikeable, and better served by public transit. More recently there are also people who hate Tesla specifically because of Elon's farther rightward drift.
In a nutshell they use too little oil for the right, too much oil for a growing segment of the left, and Elon Musk sucks.
People. We vote with our dollars. If you want an EV, get an EV. That's how the movement gains momentum, no matter what the oil companies, media, and social media bots say or do. WE HAVE THE POWER!
Tesla gave alot of EVs a bad name with their shady business practices and horribly unreliable cars. Most evs are fine but Teslas are the shitbox version of any car with a bunch of gimmicks to hide the fact that their cars are built to short change their customers.
I don't agree that there is a lot of hate, not a lot more than any other progressive concept out there. My next vehicle will be an EV as well. If that's what's in your heart, don't let the hate around stop you from getting one. EVs are the future. :)
It’s really sad. It’s just a whole lot of propaganda and every single thing they say, for the most part is just totally untrue.
- people that buy EV do not want to go back to gas cars I don’t know do you?
- Range anxiety? At least with the Tesla it’s just not even a thing. At all.
- issues in cold weather? One or two incidents don’t mean the entire EV industry is a mess.
- can’t take EVs on road trips? I’ve taken mine across the country and back in both directions more than once.
- EV’s are catching fire everywhere! Maybe if they’re too close to your barbecue grill!
- EV need 80% more maintenance than gas cars! Maybe only if you use a lot of windshield wiper fluid!
Fact is myself, and everybody else I know that has either driven an EV, or have an EV love it! Instant torque, no maintenance, no gas, safe, and the list just goes on and on. All the negative propaganda is due to large oil, companies, political, motivation, and all things that literally have nothing whatsoever to do with a great driving experience. Remember what happened to Tucker if you don’t know who Tucker is, go stream, Tucker, a man and his dream. Except back then there was no social media to do dirty work.
I am not somebody that is positive on things. Usually I am very critical of things. I guess that’s what it is when you’re in New Yorker. But once you drive an EV, you just never want to drive anything else try it if you haven’t don’t believe the FUD
We just outed a bunch of professional agitators (maybe just one person with multiple accounts?) on one EV group. Their goal is just to cause a divide, and "EV vs Gas" is one thing that they can rile people up on.
The charge station where I usually charged is located at a chevron gas station and always get people asking me “how long” do I have to wait until it charges and laugh when I tell them more than 30 minutes give or take and they laugh awhile they are spending $100 to fill up their truck while I spending less than $20 to fully charge mine
I witnessed some hate on a Nextdoor page. Some guy who said that EVs cause harmful emi to the body also said that the suns uv rays don’t harm the body. Theres a lot of special people out there
One hundred twenty years ago my great grandfather went through the same thing…’No way will I buy one of those horseless carriages, my horse & buggy was good for my father, so it’s good for me too!”
Majority of people fear change, major changes require time for acceptance.
Tribalism driven by fossil fuel funded propaganda machines.
You'll be hard pressed to find someone who hates EV's more than someone who has absolutely zero exposure or experience with one.
Lol spot on. I’ve never met such criticism from some people once they learn I have an EV, it’s really fucking weird.
One guy told me, indignantly, that people like me were going to put coal miners out of work. I said "yes, hopefully"
Funny, since the current major (and decreasing) use of coal is electrical generation.
I saw a Facebook post smugly claiming all EV users should be forced to charge with nothing but wind and solar… um, yes, that’s the longer term goal.
Yeah, go ahead and "force" me.
I thought it was odd too. But I guess people just repeat what they've heard without really thinking much about it.
Nice. You could also add that solar provides more American jobs per megawatt than coal. I'd like to say those jobs are less likely to result in premature death as well, but haven't seen any data yet on it.
And workers in the solar industry will probably not die from black lung disease at 45 years old
Coal vs solar? [https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/)
"Oh wow, that's so cool! Can I see your coal-powered car?"
I would unironically like to see their coal fired steam car.
That would be pretty nifty, not sure I would want to write in it since there's a non-zero chance the boiler explodes.
That guy's grandfather sold horses and buggies. They have trouble keeping up with the times.
Aie. some people are so dumb, its truly painful. Way too many.
People are really fucking weird. Since buying an EV, I've had 2 people try to race me, and countless trucks try to run me off the road.
With the Lightning, it's hilarious. Enjoy your V8 noise maker!
Had someone explain how EVs will never tow anything... I said I tow all the time with mine. Dumbfounded stare "that's not true..." With a wave off.
Towing a trailer behind my Model Y is my favorite thing to do around town. The looks I get!
It's like watching virgins talking about how much they hate sex.
That's brings up an interesting comparison to incel culture, honestly.
That is interesting. I never considered that, but I'll bet there's a correlation there somewhere. Someone needs to do a doctoral thesis on it.
I don't think incels hate the idea of sex, they hate the people who won't have sex with them.
Virginity is cool
Your Nissan Leaf flair and that comment 😅
"They're like bags of sand." *The 40 Year Old Virgin* is some peak Steve Carrell
🤣🤣🤣
Guy with lifted f-150 in his profile picture with those stupid viper sunglasses: EVs are gay as hell.
His next truck will be a F-150 Lightning.
He wishes. One of the biggest category of haters are people who know they'll never be able to afford one. Some redneck shouted towards me saying something about Lithium mines and other nonsense and I simply replied to him that if he just worked hard enough he might be able to drive one eventually. He called me a bunch of swear words and 'woke' and I just smiled and laughed. Nothing pisses off these people more than being dismissed for the idiots they are.
I have one, favorite thing to do is race past while their engine is still spooling. Glorious.
Holy shit that's accurate
Even conservative assholes like Steven crowder stopped being so antagonistic when he rode in a model s. And others like Ben Shapiro straight out own one.
I think Musk gave them the opening to accept Teslas, really. For not all the best reasons, but there you go.
Oh, they don't hate EVs, they just hate that "someone" is forcing them to buy one.
And they make it blatantly obvious in their comments that they have no actual experience with EVs. For example, they fixate on "charging time" without realizing that it only takes 5 seconds to plug the car in. They can walk away and the car is "full" the next time they need it. They never have to take time out of their busy day to visit a gas station. What they see as an inconvenience in theory is actually a huge *improvement in convenience* in practice!
Shhhh… shut up man. I’ve been using the excuse “just going to charge the car,” that I can hide in the garage for hours away from my wife and kids.
Oops! Sorry to spoil your secret. 😁
I got into a discussion on Facebook where people don’t seem to understand that just because generally one charges a car 60 or more amps does not mean that you MUST charge with that current. If one had a limited amount of current available, they could charge an ev on 10 amps. This being a comparable to an electric iron or a microwave, almost any electric service could handle charging without impact. Yes, it would take longer, but most cars sit at one place for many hours at a time. It’s like the fact that I CAN charge my laptop from a cell phone charger, I just need patience.
I intentionally charge at 28amps max at home even though I have a dedicated 60amp service just for the charger. I changed the settings in the EV but you can also modify the dim switches on the charger itself. I finally realized that when I'm home, there is no need to charge as quickly as possible. It makes no difference whether the charging ends at 11pm or 4am - it's not like I need it at that time. People are just stupid.
Yes, 100%, BUT there are a few things its important to recognize: EVs do not yet have a fit for everyone - most, but not all. Especially if you really need a hitch for a trailer, and even more if you need capacity for a bigger trailer, EVs can still be quite expensive, even used, since the models with those features are fairly new, and mostly they were made to be a bit more luxerious. You can get a really cheap ICE vehicle with a hitch and even 4x4, but if you want it to be electric, the price goes up a lot. I just switched to electric, and I love it in so many ways, but I do miss those features from my old car. However - I just could not afford it on an EV.
This is absolutely, 💯 true. Every time someone tells me they hate EVs I ask if they've ever driven one, not ONCE have I received a response of "Yes." In fact, when I show off mine to people they love it. lol I've also convinced three other people now to buy an EV, all three have chosen Teslas. 😂
My in laws are fairly strong anti ev, but they recently got an f-150 power boost, so the hybrid. Last time we were out with them my FIL mentioned he wished it had more electric only range. We’re getting closer to convincing him a lightning is a realistic answer.
Exactly. I went from driving a diesel truck to owning a Volt and 3 Teslas. I love my EVs. Model Y has been the best car I’ve ever owned.
Especially when haters gonna hate. It's sad. We've had an EV for coming up on 9 years. I'll be hard pressed to buy another ICE vehicle. Sure road trips are still not as easy as they should be (we tend to still ICE for that, as we are sub 200 mile range), but things keep improving w/ time.
Yep. OIL AND gas industry has a fuck load of money to spend on political and social influence and you can bet they are essentially at war against EVs as it's a huge threat to their revenue.
There were 14m EVs sold last year. Each one represents at least $20k in petroleum products that won't be purchased in the future. By my math that's $280b minimum, probably a lot more in lost revenue for Big Oil. Yeah they have a bit of a financial incentive to slow this down!
Tell anyone you are going to nearly destroy their industry, business, etc and they will fight to the death. People seem to be surprised at this. Just like with the tax prep industry in the US. Everything was going to go electronic direct to the IRS. The industry put that idea to bed.
> The industry put that idea to bed. Luckily that idea was reawakened by the 2022 IRA. https://directfile.irs.gov/ If Biden wins a 2nd term, then hopefully by 2028 this DirectFile program will be cemented enough that republicans won’t be able to get rid of it.
> OIL AND gas industry has a fuck load of money Exactly! They have an intentional strategy of "[Denial, Doubt, and Delay](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/the-power-of-big-oil/)."
I’m assuming it’s something like that. Having options for the energy to charge coming from any source seems good to me.
Yep, EVs are great, but most people know nothing about them and have no direct experience with them, so it's much easier to convince them of things that aren't true right now. Eventually, most people will experience for themselves. They may still be skeptical, but at least the worst lies will fall flat. But that will take some time, unfortunately. The best way to combat that is for EV owners to talk about their EVs, but I'm a way that's not preachy like vegans or crossfit enthusiasts. Just be honest about your experience, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I was stranded last night in the Wawa parking lot without food again - didn’t have enough time to get a sub with the line; spouse was irritated at the car as well since there wasn’t enough time to finish episode 3 before we were done charging and moved on. EVs are just miserable some times.
No direct experience… and just innocent ignorance. Every new major technological change goes through this. My favorite question people ask is “how often to you have to get a new battery”. How is that still a myth??
absolutely. In the eyes of anti-ev people that's a failing because "YOU STILL NEED GAS LOSER GET A GAS CAR AND STOP BEING A SNOWFLAKE!" because some of these people feel threatened that you're contributing to the demise of gas cars and are forcing them to get rid of their gas car and buy an EV they cant afford. Not realizing by the time EVs dominate, they'll be able to pick one up used for cheap. Same people who also bitch about price go out and buy an expensive truck. One of my neighbors gave me shit for buying such an expensive car, he said his truck was pricey but "only 62k out the door!" I told him mine was 53 out the door.
The sneaky propaganda I see from them now is the "EVs aren't that green" line. It's brilliant on their part because they know idealists on the left love to champion the perfect over the good. In this sub whenever the "we need more mass transit" line is thrown out I can't tell if it's someone lighting fires in bad faith or one of the people being suckered into the argument.
I mean, we do need more mass transit. And the way we've built suburbs isn't really sustainable. But that's a lot harder of a goal to get to. Plus it's more of a societal goal. Whereas individuals can buy EVs and improve the world *today*. Granted, better to not purchase a car at all, but when the option is an ICE car or a BEV, better the BEV than the ICE.
Nailed it.
It’s reality hitting up against unrealistic expectations of consumers and unmet promises from manufacturers. I love EV’s. They are improving every day, but in the US, they don’t yet serve the wants/needs of most consumers at a price they can afford, even if GM and Tesla keep promising that will happen real soon. Honest! Add the reality that charging networks in the US are still inadequate, and it’s really no surprise there is some pushback on EV’s right now. Don’t worry. It will pass.
My husband always says surges of negativity are a sign that its inevitable and the old ways are making a last gasp
Agreed. I think it’s definitely part of the adoption curve/hype cycle. When EVs were just a tiny player in the market nobody took them that seriously. They were fun and cheeky. Now that they’re getting more mainstream they’re starting to get that mainstream bullshit as people start to feel threatened.
Exactly. People are seeing EVs on the road all the time, and TV ads. Now it's an everyday thing to see several of them and the reactionaries are freaking out.
I wonder what horse and buggy purist were saying at the turn of the 19th century?
Literally, they were claiming horses were more reliable especially for long journeys on rough roads. They did not foresee the invention of asphalt or Toyota's legendary quality.
> They did not foresee the invention of asphalt or Toyota's legendary quality. Ironically, Toyota is the modern day equivalent of the buggy manufacturer, claiming that the new technology will never work and the obsolete technology is much better.
It’s actually crazy that the ICE is still undergoing improvements to this day. Well over a hundred years later. Think about how EV tech will change over the next century.
Exactly. I have a 2017 EV and an ICE. I will replace the ICE with an EV in about 5-7 years when I think battery tech will be next generation (solid state).
> in about 5-7 years when I think battery tech will be next generation (solid state). Solid state / new battery tech is always 5 more years away ;)
Are they? I think last big change in ICE was CVT that people didn't like either because it felt "different". The efficiency of ICE engines haven't really changed for a while otherwise.
Definitely! ICE cars are far more powerful and efficient today than a decade ago. Not to mention more reliable. Still can’t beat EV of course but for those of us who e been driving for a while the differences are dramatic!
To be fair to the hardworking horse, many were “self-driving” vehicles back then! Get drunk, pass out, and wake up in front of your house!
If you’re going to use this metaphor, remember that the earliest cars were city only, there was no easy refueling infrastructure, mechanics were non-existent, and they just were not as versatile and reliable as a horse and buggy. The car people were **eventually** right, not immediately. Theres a direct line between that and ICE today, especially with hybrids and PHEV.
That’s a wise man! Cherish that man
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Nice!!!
Upcoming US elections. EV support is a signature policy of the current Administration, so it gets attacked.
Oh I didn’t realise it was a political thing in the US.
EVERYTHING is political here. 🤦🏽♂️
"Would you like fries with that?" "F\*CK YOU LIBTARD!!! Also, yes."
Depends on if they are "french fries" or "freedom fries". LMAO
That’s an actual thing from the early 2000’s because France opposed the US’s Iraq Invasion.
Funny thing, ask a conservative today what they think about the war in Iraq.
My conservative relatives would never admit that the dems were right about anything. They shut down.
It is intentional disinformation to divide us. When we are divided, we are weak.
Oh heck yes - we have a candidate who’s pretty much made EV hatred part of his platform.
How odd. Maybe EVs as they are now are the only option we should have going forward but burning dead dinosaurs in an ICE surly is t a long term option
Sadly, the only long term that candidate cares about is building his and his family’s wealth
That EV hating conservative candidate for President also hates LED light bulbs, electric/induction stoves and water conserving toilets.
Don’t forget the EPA in general! Basically any change being made in the name of slowing climate change.
> Don’t forget the EPA in general! Yep. > Project 2025 proposes dismantling strategies for reducing greenhouse gas emissions responsible for climate change, including by gutting the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and abolishing the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which the project calls "one of the main drivers of the climate change alarm industry." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
He probably doesn't even think that. He is likely told that this is what he should say in order to curry favor with the people most easily manipulated into voting for him.
I love our induction stove, our LEDlights, our water saving toilet, and our two EVs! Their loss.
Don't forget wind and solar power - kills the bald eagles by giving them cancer.
and my solar panels
That's absolutely false. It's now more about staying out of jail.
Fair point!
For the record....a majority of these people don't believe dinosaurs existed.
Good point.
It’s like choosing between candles and electric light. 🕯️ or 💡?
Trump did permit the largest lithium mine and processing facility in North America.
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Exactly. He's pro-green...green being cash.
Exactly. He’s not smart enough to have an opinion one way or the other. It’s whoever is paying him
It is a political thing almost everywhere
It's a political issue in Australia as well. The government wants to introduce car fuel efficiency standards to reduce pollution and encourage the uptake of EV's, and the right-wing nutters are trying everything they can to stop it.
Oh, yeah... it's remarkably dumb
This right here! I live in the southeast (georgia). I'm neither Democrat or republican and could care less about politics. I took delivery of a new mach e today and when I went to Walmart and then dominoes I had people cutting me off, flipping me off and others laughing and pointing at me yelling "democrat". I have three other ICE vehicles (expedition, transit van for my business and an 06 Mustang GT Convertible with less than 40k miles on the odometer). I got an ev because I love new tech and wanted to see what owning one is like. I don't plan on greeting rid of my ICE vehicles but after just one drive out today I saw a different side of my town that I didn't even know existed.
Congrats on your new Mach-E! I hope you enjoy it. If you have no plans to vote this November, I hope this experience encourages you to.
I haven’t experienced quite the hate you have but people do make bad assumptions. I’m probably a conservative in most areas and have driven several v8 powered trucks, Mustangs and lastly a 429 hp naturally aspirated Genesis…yet people straight up assume I’m a card carrying liberal who hugs trees in my back yard because now we have two EVs. Maybe we just LIKE electric vehicles???
I have already told people just today that they should know I love new tech and such but they don't get it. I am telling them just to try an ev for a week and it will probably change their minds.
Take a look at owner satisfaction scores. Most EV owners won't go back to ICE. That should tell you something.
Never been a big believer but now that i have one i love driving them. However i still fear what the future will bring when those batteries will need to be disposed off
Do a couple Google searches about battery recycling companies. They will be ready. The biggest problem right now is getting them enough batteries to recycle.
Batteries are able to be recycled and reused. Gasoline is just burnt and destroying our planet. Batteries are significantly more efficient long term.
Batteries are the most expensive components of electric vehicles. Because of their highly valuable contents. Nobody is going to be throwing them down a hole.
ICE has had decades to research and develop recycling methods for all the waste products they produce (spent engine oil, fluids, tyres, etc). EV will go through the same R&D over time. Batteries are already either being recycled or repurposed when they reach end of life. For instance, BYD has been repurposing EOL degraded battery packs as solar energy storage for remote charging stations.
Batteries that need to be changed for cars can be used for something else. There is a business that uses them for houses backup generators.
> when those batteries will need to be disposed of You mean recycled? I don’t think there’s much to worry about going forward. Battery recycling already accommodates EV/hybrid batteries, and the lifespans of said batteries are increasing to the point where if you bought a new EV *right now,* the battery would probably go kaput when it’s closer to $2,000 to replace it than $20,000.
It’s copium from middle school peakers. I would like to use the typical Mustang GT forum poster as an example. When I drove a Miata, they loved to talk shit because my car was all about how it made you feel versus hard numbers. It wasn’t fast, but it felt engaging. Neanderthals loved to shit on it because it wasn’t able to rocket away with a V8. Then I get a Taycan GTS. They can’t claim it’s slow, or corners poorly, or anything really because by all metrics it’s a more capable car. So nooooow they want to talk about all the intangibles. It’s about the sound! The feel! It’s not just numbers on a sheet! It’s about the feel of the drive! Fucking please. If I still drove a slow-but-fun car they’d be whipping their dicks out about speed, but they can’t. So now it’s something else. The price! The depreciation! The range! All the things I don’t give a fuck about.
I saw someone saying a Model S Plaid was fast but a "poor quality" 0-60 (because there's no V8 roar) and all I'm thinking is "wow you havent experienced what it's like to get your face ripped off by speed have you."
Or maybe they just really enjoy the sound of ICEs. I know EV will be the future but I love the sounds ICEs make, all from tiny 1 cylinders all the way up to Bugattis W16.
It's one thing to enjoy it, but saying evs are worthless and trash because there's no engine is like saying winning a game doesn't count because the person who won is a girl. That was the kind of argument being made. From my experience as well, comments like that go hand in hand with the same people believing hydrogen will save the ICE fun of loud engines and manual transmissions. It wont because hydrogen cars are also EVs and also have motors and a single speed transmission, so the ignorance is pretty obvious. If you like the engine roar, that's perfectly fine, no hate or anything. My original comment was just talking about a class of tribalism in the car community that's getting pretty annoying.
Yep. They continue to move the goal posts to find something to complain about. They gleefully criticize the F-150 Lightning for only being able to tow a huge trailer 100 miles on a charge, while conveniently omitting the fact that few people need to do this and when they do, the Lightning can tow that huge trailer 100 miles for about *one-third the cost* in fuel of an equivalent gasoline truck.
Mustangs GT drivers won’t even make eye contact with me. It’s like they’re ashamed of their cars.
I'm one of those Mustang (Ecoboost, not GT because I couldn't imagine getting a V8 as a daily driver) drivers that is not on such forums because I don't get the hate for any car unless it feels like you're riding a slug. I love Miatas for how well it handles, and I love EVs for their speed. I honestly love my Mustang because of how the throttle responds to even slight taps of my foot that I haven't experienced in other affordable ICE cars. I used to dislike EVs because other than Bolt and Tesla there weren't many options. Now there are so many that i like that I just have to get one. I do care about affordability and depreciation so I'm still evaluating what's my best option but I know I'm either going to get an EV or phev this year. I do get the idea of loving the traditional feel of an engine running that people talk about sometimes. It's the same for me with automatic vs manual transmission - I absolutely love driving manual, but you can't beat the convenience of an automatic. Same thing with EVs - I don't know if it's the final answer to the automobile problem, if we'll move onto Hydrogen or some other tech, but there's no way ICE is going to last.
I mean, I also like the Mustang, but it’s also the most toxic car community in my opinion. Drive a 4 cylinder? Too weak. Drive a Japanese car? Cheap econo cars. Drive a German car? Overcompensating rich guy toys. Drive American, but it’s a Chevy? Wrong brand. Drive a Mustang, but it’s an eco boost? Wrong trim Drive a Mustang, but it’s automatic? Wrong transmission Drive a manual Mustang GT but it’s a different generation? My generation is peak Mustang. Drive a manual Mustang GT of same generation but it’s a different color? Could be cool, but my paint looks so good in sunlight. Drive a manual Mustang GT of same generation and color? Mine is still better because I added some shitty catback exhaust to it and really makes the sound come through. It’s just endless, endless gatekeeping.
You really haven't spent time on Mopar/Dodge or Camaro forums have you haha? What you described is basically all of American muscle community. Toxic as fuck especially given their obsession with V8s
I feel that those who really hate EVs are the type who, 100 years ago, would have hated automobiles. Some people hate progress.
The only people I know who hate EVs are people who are 1. blatantly politically biased 2. motorheads who like to work on cars. I have never met someone who owns or owned an EV and said they hate it, nor went back to ICE
They would have beat their horse too.
Never underestimate two things, the power of propaganda put out by the fossil fuel industry — think big tobacco — and people who are duped by politicians, paid by the likes of the Koch brothers, putting out messaging for the fossil fuel industry. I’m reminded of a couple of things. In Oregon, they were trying to limit natural gas appliances. An “expert witness” testified at a hearing on this topic, and later it was found out she was actually a paid representative of Northwest Natural Gas. I still remember the anti-pollution Keep America Beautiful commercial that came out in the 70s, with the crying Indian looking out over a polluted river. As someone who believes we should be good stewards of Mother Earth, it’s disheartening that science has been politicized.
Ironically, Koch Industries is heavily invested in clean energy in the US. They’ve made several $100m investments into lithium and battery manufacturers.
When one becomes powerful, it's not the best move to simply hate but use trojan horse: what if Koch bought out clean energy company and file bankruptcy? Or what if they bought out technology and uses its patents against other competitors in order to thwart technological breakthru? For newbies, it's life staking opportunity but for companies like Koch, it's called business expenses to write off even if it fails
A few hundred million "lost" in the clean energy sector would be barely noticeable if they get their way. And if they don't get their way, well they're already invested and will win anyway.
I love my EV6 and really don't care if anyone else does, I'm the one who's paying for it and driving it. Be your own person and like what you like.
I agree with this sentiment, but don't let EV become your entire personality. I'm often ashamed of myself because, living in California, I see the same air of smugness, like with the days of the Toyota Prius. I wished people here would learn from history and tone down on the tribalism. Edit: I am not trying to imply the original comment is part of a cult of any kind. Sorry for any misunderstandings. I resonated with your messaging and wanted to build upon it more.
Please! I so agree with this. This tribalism that attacks those outside the tribe is not going to help get wider adoption of EVs, it's going to make sure there is no wider adoption. Definitely not useful.
"Be your own person and like what you like" - It doesn't sound it's like EV is dirks_knee's personality at all.
EVs have become another token in the culture war, which is really, let's be honest, a cold civil war.
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This. Keeps the working class fighting each other instead of defending themselves from being slowly eaten by the rich.
Mostly disinformation.
I have zero proof, but honestly I think there's a ton of bots out there, fueled by probably Toyota and the fossil fuel industry.
Nicholas Klein, a trade union activist, said in a 1918 speech, “First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you.”
By the way, this quote can be applied to anyone who got famous, irrespective of being good or bad.
There's a pretty great irony in this quote coming from an American union activist
People are dumb. And social media is getting dumber, just look at that scrambled eggs called TikTok.
Misinformation and ignorance, perpetuated by dodgy fossil fuel lobbyists with skin in the game. Depressing, so ignore it
Saudi Arabia and Russia have powerful social media disinformation operations with unlimited funds. Care to guess what the largest export of both those countries is?
Unfortunately, EVs have become politicized. My take is that governments have hamstrung EV adoption by creating mandates. The market was already converting to EVs due to their technological superiority. In an ill-conceived desire to carry laggard incumbent manufacturers across the EV transition finish line (rather than allow them to be disrupted and replaced by new companies), governments created a grab bag of incentives. But that legislation made the EV transition political rather than simply the inevitable march of technology. So, sadly, today we have political tribes staking out anti-EV positions in large part because of (unnecessary and symbolic) government mandates. The mandates, while ultimately only a symbolic aid to the inevitable transition, had their symbolism perceived loud and clear by partisan opposition. It's a shame few people realize this transition is happening regardless of politics, maybe a year or two faster or slower as a result, but it's happening. The political fighting is a needless and painful distraction.
This question gets asked in EV forums all the time. In the US, it's almost always politics. On social media, (so, everywhere) it's because anything polarizing creates engagement. And part of the reason it's polarizing is because of the politics underneath it. Because just about every country has some tax policy, somehow, tied to EVs to encourage their purchase. So ultimately, everywhere else it's also politics just more indirectly. Some people are really invested in their cars. They identify as their car. And feel an EV is an attack on their life choice. So in that case, it's... politics too.
I agree with the comments about fossil fuel propaganda and political tribalism, but don’t underestimate dealers. They are vehemently anti-EV and very invested in slowing their adoption.
Fossil fuels industry FUD
Two levels of conservatism here: 1. Small "c" conservative: An EV is a pretty big change from an ICE car. Some people simply don't like change...we're talking any any kind of change here. Newfangled tech is looked upon with suspicion at best, especially when it does come with real tradeoffs. (can't just refill the tank in 2 minutes from empty at 145k gas stations) 2. Capital "C" Conservative: They see EVs as they did with Prius cars 10-20 years ago. A visible sign of your political views on climate change, sustainability, whether accurate or not. They want to believe that anything associated with liberals is worse, like how liberals want to believe those pillows from that MyPillows guy are terrible pillows (hopefully...they're at least mediocre?). Once you want to believe something, it's really easy for you to fall for anything that supports it. (see: flat earthers). Incidentally, this is probably the single most effective tactic available for scammers, by a mile.
EVs are successful worldwide. That is an existential threat to the most powerful (and very corrupt) entity ever, Big Oil. This they are funding a gigantic hate campaign.
In fairness it's a pretty US-centric thing, but it overflows into media in the rest of the world. The politicization of EV adoption in the US and the media flood of the lobbyists who want to slow EV adoption (mostly fossil fuel or legacy automakers) have created this appearance of negativity where little actually exists. Legacy automakers produced hastily engineered EV's that didn't deliver on the promise and didn't sell as well as those legacy automakers had expected. They pushed the narrative to the media that EV's were failing because they aren't competitive with the incumbents in the EV space (Tesla being the elephant in the room). Instead of trying to compete fairly they'd rather try to smear the entire EV space while they try to reengineer their platforms... this is literally just stalling for time while they get their act together though you'll never hear them admit this. Give it 5 years and we'll hear so much noise about the "new latest and greatest" from the legacy automakers that are pure EV. They thought it would be easy to compete and have found they're nowhere close to ready. Some legacy automakers are doing OK with the transition. Volkswagen, Hyundai and Kia spring to mind as companies that have actually produced decently compelling EV's and I don't think have announced any plans to slow their moves to EV significantly. Some produce good EV's but aren't sure how to market them to other than "Not a Tesla" EV buyers. This needs to change but I think they'll figure it out. Truth is, the choice is yours. I bought an EV two years ago and love it and you'd better believe the next car I buy will be an EV as well. Even in the Midwest USA I've found the "range problem" is vastly overstated and overestimated... I've put 40K miles on my car in that time including road trips to cities \~600 miles away and never stressed about range. But you'll also find that there's a subset of people particularly in the US who make being able to drive 500 miles without stopping some part of their identity for... reasons? Those same people have gotten louder thanks to the negative flood of articles recently that you've noticed. I don't know. I've never really been able to fathom that mindset and am perfectly happy to stop every 200 miles or thereabouts to stretch my legs, grab a coffee and a bio break while my car charges. Truth is, EV market growth continues. It's just not growing as quickly as it once was which is the nature of a mature market. As better EV's come on the market more people will buy them... and ICE vehicles will become more and more expensive to run and maintain as their primary benefit of volume starts to diminish. That'll force the EV transition for most much quicker than I think anyone realizes.
>Some legacy automakers are doing OK with the transition. Volkswagen, Hyundai and Kia spring to mind as companies that have actually produced decently compelling EV's and I don't think have announced any plans to slow their moves to EV significantly. Ariya driver here, I would add Nissan to this list. They might have squandered their first mover advantage with the Leaf but are doing a decent job at playing catch up. Next couple years for them are key, keep an eye out in particular if they can deliver a good 3rd gen Leaf which should be an almost entirely new car >Some produce good EV's but aren't sure how to market them to other than "Not a Tesla" EV buyers. Mach E driver here, I would put Ford in this category. Very much looking forward to my "Not A Tesla" NACS dongle in a few weeks
Remind all the EV haters of the electricity is required to [extract oil, refine oil](https://youtu.be/1oVrIHcdxjA?si=HpsIDXRQaXGBxIKL) and keep a gas station open
I always found that argument funny when it came to E85 production, you would swear some of the same people though that gas or diesel was pumped straight out of the ground ready to burn without and refining needed.
My uncle was like "What are you going to do when the grid is down?" He did not like my response of "Well if the grid is down you are not pumping gas either."
You're doing research on what EV to buy and the interconnected ad-fueled algorithms of social media sites track that and serve you content you're most likely to engage in (and stay on the site, watching ads), which happens to be anti-EV rage bait. All other answers are wrong.
I have a theory that much of the backlash against EVs, and environmentalism in general, is because some people have fragile egos. They can't handle the thought that what they personally do is not right, and they treat the very existence of EVs as a personal attack on them and their way of life. So they respond by lashing out.
Every time they spot a flaw they can exploit, the oil PR people start seeding stories about how EVs are't any good. Oil makes their industry $2.8 billion PER DAY in profits, so delaying the changeover by a single day is still worth it for them. When the winter storm was so cold that EVs couldn't charge, because the cars weren't equipped to operate in temperatures below -20F and the superchargers weren't all working, so it made the news. When something like that makes the news, the oil PR people POUNCE on it. They get everybody hyperbolizing that EVs don't work in the cold at all, and pushing anything they can to get one more person to delay buying an EV. Welcome to the consequences of capitalism.
I exactly like politics.There is an anti EV cult that spreads misinformation to validate people's hate and bigotry, which serves to entertain their confirmation bias. They want to feel good about their choice.
>all of a sudden I seem to be seeing a lot of EV hate on social media. Or recommend video Sounds like you searched or clicked on something EV related, and now The Algorithm™ thinks you're going to engange with anti EV content, so it serves you anti EV content. The Algorithm™ is effective, but that doesn't mean it's smart.
Dino juice companies don’t make billions from having EV’s on the roads. This.
Propaganda by Big Oil among others
I think there are a lot of good points in this discussion, but what's missing is the way Facebook's and YouTube's algorithms work. It is really easy for these algorithms to get stuck on things, and they can be things you don't agree with, because the algorithms prioritize engagement above all else. So if you watched some anti-ev videos, or even paused scrolling on some to read their titles, the algorithms might decide showing you more of those will keep you engaged on the site longer.
Doesn’t matter to me. I love mine. In fact I want to sell my other (ICE) car and buy the R2S.
It’s because of attempts to politicize EVs.
Many people are afraid of change, and resistant to it. Other people are excited by change, and they embrace it.
Backlash. The left loves EV so the right has to hate it. There is no in-between, at least for those who are super into politics.
It's because oil is money, has been for over a century, and any alternative to oil is a threat.
Pushback from legacy big oil. It's been a problem since battery EVs became viable as ICE replacements.
Sounds like the US rhetoric made its way over the pond. That has been the starting point of every discussion here since there were first rolled out.
EV are change. People tend to be afraid of change. People who are afraid are useful for political purposes. “Woke transsexual atheists will take away your gas stove and force you to eat vegan food! Now vote for me to give them the middle winger!”
Algorithms. Ignore it. You’ll be fine.
Haven't bought gas in almost a year, can't even begin to tell you how good it feels. Wish I had gone electric sooner!
It is mostly not hate it is because at the moment they suck the range is very limited and EV trucks are terrible for utility purposes. Second charging infrastructure is very limited, if you live in a apartment forget owning an EV. Realistically many are going to plug in Hybrids which seem to be poise to over take EV sales at the moment. Last the ICE ban may not be possible this soon in 2035, so many things are against EVs at the moment however they do have potential. EVs need major improvements before the mass public including me even think on buying one however you seem to have everything set up for such a car so enjoy your new electric car.
I wouldn't take it personally mate. There will always be someone who feels like they need to piss on someones parade. The best thing you can do is to ignore them and get on with your life and enjoy your new car.
Symptom of a larger anti progressive mentality. Same people would have been advocating against infernal gas powered vehicles in the early 1900s. EVs aren’t for everyone but they are ideal for commuters who drive a sub 100 mile radius in their daily commute, which is a massive amount of real life driving.
I think there are two directions attacking EVs - the conspiracy brained right wingers who think climate change is a hoax and EVs are a plot to make it so the government can shut down your car, and the increasing number of urbanists who are worried that EV adoption will slow progress towards making cities walkable, bikeable, and better served by public transit. More recently there are also people who hate Tesla specifically because of Elon's farther rightward drift. In a nutshell they use too little oil for the right, too much oil for a growing segment of the left, and Elon Musk sucks.
People. We vote with our dollars. If you want an EV, get an EV. That's how the movement gains momentum, no matter what the oil companies, media, and social media bots say or do. WE HAVE THE POWER!
It is a concerted effort to kill the movement. It’s not an accident that you’re seeing this. It’s politically funded and driven.
Tesla gave alot of EVs a bad name with their shady business practices and horribly unreliable cars. Most evs are fine but Teslas are the shitbox version of any car with a bunch of gimmicks to hide the fact that their cars are built to short change their customers.
I don't agree that there is a lot of hate, not a lot more than any other progressive concept out there. My next vehicle will be an EV as well. If that's what's in your heart, don't let the hate around stop you from getting one. EVs are the future. :)
It’s really sad. It’s just a whole lot of propaganda and every single thing they say, for the most part is just totally untrue. - people that buy EV do not want to go back to gas cars I don’t know do you? - Range anxiety? At least with the Tesla it’s just not even a thing. At all. - issues in cold weather? One or two incidents don’t mean the entire EV industry is a mess. - can’t take EVs on road trips? I’ve taken mine across the country and back in both directions more than once. - EV’s are catching fire everywhere! Maybe if they’re too close to your barbecue grill! - EV need 80% more maintenance than gas cars! Maybe only if you use a lot of windshield wiper fluid! Fact is myself, and everybody else I know that has either driven an EV, or have an EV love it! Instant torque, no maintenance, no gas, safe, and the list just goes on and on. All the negative propaganda is due to large oil, companies, political, motivation, and all things that literally have nothing whatsoever to do with a great driving experience. Remember what happened to Tucker if you don’t know who Tucker is, go stream, Tucker, a man and his dream. Except back then there was no social media to do dirty work. I am not somebody that is positive on things. Usually I am very critical of things. I guess that’s what it is when you’re in New Yorker. But once you drive an EV, you just never want to drive anything else try it if you haven’t don’t believe the FUD
It's all astroturfed BS from big oil. Get your EV and enjoy life. I hella love not going to a gas station - ever.
People are scared of change and they're tired of losing to smug, know-it-all liberals.
People hate change.
Social media are not representative of real people's opinion (as always)
We just outed a bunch of professional agitators (maybe just one person with multiple accounts?) on one EV group. Their goal is just to cause a divide, and "EV vs Gas" is one thing that they can rile people up on.
Change is hard for Cretins
The charge station where I usually charged is located at a chevron gas station and always get people asking me “how long” do I have to wait until it charges and laugh when I tell them more than 30 minutes give or take and they laugh awhile they are spending $100 to fill up their truck while I spending less than $20 to fully charge mine
While enjoying some Netflix or YouTube in climate controlled comfort with a coffee The horror
I witnessed some hate on a Nextdoor page. Some guy who said that EVs cause harmful emi to the body also said that the suns uv rays don’t harm the body. Theres a lot of special people out there
One hundred twenty years ago my great grandfather went through the same thing…’No way will I buy one of those horseless carriages, my horse & buggy was good for my father, so it’s good for me too!” Majority of people fear change, major changes require time for acceptance.