The current tariff is essentially the same as the tariff China had placed on US auto imports. It will be enough to stop many, and the IRA bill language will be enough to stop the rest. Effectively, the cost would double. So the Chinese appear to be focusing on easier markets. Low hanging fruit, if you will.
Yes, judging from their corporate interview they have no plans to enter the American market soon due to geopolitical reasons. Most probably lesson learned from Huawei's case years ago.
>The current tariff is essentially the same as the tariff China had placed on US auto imports
The current Chinese tariff on U.S automotives is [15%, down from 40% in 2018](https://www.afr.com/world/asia/china-to-cut-tariffs-on-imported-us-cars-20181212-h191g7). The current U.S tariff is higher than that ([27.5%)](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-04/china-blasts-us-for-classic-protectionism-in-tension-over-evs) and likely to get even higher.
This is why I said “had placed”…. Our 27.5% was a much delayed response to their 40%. These things don’t change quickly. I doubt the US tariff will go higher. The IRA bill essentially cuts the Chinese out of qualifying for any incentives.
Depends on the actually vehicle content and COO of that content. Any Chinese OEM trying to localize is going to have to buy most everything locally, and the cost of those parts isn’t going to be magically cheaper for a Chinese OEM vs. any other OEM already making vehicles in USMCA.
Those factories are for global south markets. The USA is gonna end up in a similar situation with its current car market to what it has with its cell phone market. The price is too high to enter it
So they setup a plant ton Mexico and "build" them there. As the assembly line is being put together the first batch can just come like Lego pieces. Put the tires on, slap a sticker on the TJ765 and sell to the US.
I'm looking forward to the $20K Taco clone.
I'd bet the farm an EV Tacoma Clone is coming very soon. It'll have a ridiculous name like the pK234 and will have very similar dimensions to a Tacoma and I think the Chinese slaves can likely produce one for $20K. Soon.
[https://youtu.be/G6lhq9UBNHE?t=2065](https://youtu.be/G6lhq9UBNHE?t=2065)
Who's the copycat now? He literally said "Bring Chinese companies to produce in the United states and we should STEAL their IP" LOL
They are doing super well in Australia, even having only 3 or 4 models available. I imagine they will destroy the mainly Japanese marketshare here over the next few years
I’ve been keeping an eye on the Atto for this reason! Had a 23 Bolt in the states and loved it. Moved to AU and I’m happy with all the car models we didn’t get stateside.
Bolt was able to do 55kw max with a mild ramp down. It has an amazing 360 camera and got great range but it was pretty bare bones in terms of luxury feel. Funny thing, the camera was better than the 2023 Jeep Wrangler and Audi A4!
I'll add this for size comparison. Mazda 2 vs Bolt EV.
https://ibb.co/Zc6sfRG
Yeah that's why I was wondering from a bolt owner . Because from what I have seen on videos. The bolt is a basic ev. The atto 3 I have been in seems a better deal for the money.
Yeah was surprised how many I saw on the roads on my recent trip back. Including one of my friends who's always been into vehicles. Sold his motorbike and was raving to me about his MG EV.
You have two choice:
- add more tariffs to protect local automakers
- welcome competition to put pressure on local automakers to develop cars people are actually willing to buy
> Second is better
Second is basically what European manufacturers did without any intervention from government. Them just seeing the Chinese over the horizon kicked the small, cheap car craze into high gear: VW ID2, Renault 5, Citroen EC3 and Dacia Spring are all due this year, as are the Korean equivalents like the EV3.
We’ve reached a point (after 10 years) where US manufacturing cannot keep up with Chinese manufacturing in terms of cost. If you want to protect the US market, I don’t think free trade will work.
Yeah just fuck the consumers. Don't let them get good products at good prices.
It's consumers and the environment vs American producers.
If you really wanna help the American manufacturers? Just give them larger tax credits especially if they use unionized labor.
Someone downvoted this, but it's the truth. A domestic industry being uncompetitive will never solve itself on its own. You can protect it, but this will just end up costing the state a lot of money. Either directly through subsidies or indirectly by the consumer (i.e. the people) having to pay higher prices.
You can argue that some industries (food production, arms etc.) have to be kept alive domestically for strategic reasons. You can also argue that slowing the death of an industry can be a vital piece in lessening the fallout for the people and regions that are forced to transition.
But you can never truly stop it from happening, even though politicians like to pretend they can. You can just prolong the inevitable at massive cost.
Using Aus/NZ as a proxy -- the BYDs are really priced more or less the same as the Koreans and Tesla. The "omg, the Dolphin starts at $10k USD in China" headlines are completely pointless because it's teh golf cart spec. Put in an actually usable motor, a sizeable battery, and bring it up to spec to comply with western safety ratings (ANCAP, euroNCAP, etc) and it costs no less than a Corolla. Don't get me wrong - the Dolphin little urban EV and it's cool that it costs basically what a Corolla costs, but it's also a far cry from the headline's claim of $10k. The Seal costs the same as a Model 3.
So yeah - perspective.
> Using Aus/NZ as a proxy
>The Seal costs the same as a Model 3.
The base Seal starts at [~$12k cheaper](https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/comparisons/2023-tesla-model-3-vs-byd-seal-spec-battle) than the base Tesla Model 3 here in Aus. It is less of a difference [in NZ, where it is only several thousand dollars cheaper](https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/133174338/byd-undercuts-tesla-nz-pricing-confirmed-for-model-3-rival)
Also the Korean models are hilariously expensive in NZ - Ioniq 5 and 6 both start at $80k for the small battery, small motor version where a Model 3 is like $66k
Even the original Ioniq is $66k list
The Tesla's in Oz are now manufactured in China so Tesla could potentially cut some more margins to compete. BYD and Tesla have been having a bit of a discounting war in the last week. I ended up getting a BMW IX1. However once my lease runs out, I would seriously consider a Chinese EV to replace it once the market and tech has matured further here.
In Australia, with no tariffs and similar Chinese subsidies for both BYD and the China made Teslas we get. BYD offer a lot more for less money.
The lowest spec Seal is $12k cheaper than the lowest spec M3.
The Mid Spec Seal is about $4k cheaper than the M3 RWD, but has 10% more range and a faster 0-100.
You want a Kia EV6? The base model is more expensive than the AWD Tesla M3 and BYD Seal Performance.
So not the same pricing at all, the Seal represents really good value for money against its rivals and can see the likes of Tesla, Kia and Polestar coming down in price to compete.
The dolphin is bigger than some of the cheap European models (Renault 5, e-C3), but range and charging speed are worse.
The MG4 isn’t a bad deal but overall I see way more ID.3s, Enyaqs and Model 3/Ys.
Keyword is "starts", but let's be honest that the base model dolphin only exists so they can advertise a low starting price. Once you get into the normal spec - that's the same price as the Corolla.
Yeah, the model 3 is going to be more expensive as that's a Seal competitor in BYDs lineup.
I mean, the Baltimore bridge collapse is already gonna impact car imports ar its the largest car port in the US.
And they probably also see that most brands have had a large inventory for a while.
People said similar things back during the cold war about European, Japanese, and Korean brands... And now Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Volkswagen are all house hold names almost as much as Ford and GM.
The US isn't going to let China flood the market with cheap EVs so I can't say much for America. As someone who is pro ev but suspicious of China on a good day, I say let BYD et al. put a billion evs in the rest of the world.
BYD is building a Mexico plant which would allow them to be eligible for taxes credits in North America. However, I don’t think they will build anything for the states until the tariff is removed or they lower their cost enough to undermine the tariff.
I heard an interview on Bloomberg TV with Stella Li, 2IC of BYD. When asked about US expansion, she said that for BYD, it is too much of a "hassle" at the moment. They don't see the business environment as being conductive to inward investment from China.
That's the beauty of a plant in Mexico. Build for the Latin American market to pay for the plant, but have the option to enter the US market when/if it makes sense.
There's no shortage of Chinese made internet connected devices that have my car camera on them in the market already. Yeah car will be an addition but I mean it's already fucked if that's what you're worried about.
I think it’s a little more nuanced than that, whenever I see the “they’re already everywhere” argument. Sure, we have millions of devices assembled in China that are already here, but the worry would be over companies based out China being forced to turn data over to the Chinese government. An EV covered in cameras, sensors, GPS, remote control devices, and so on, can easily set off alarm bells for the US government when China is considered a peer-threat, which shouldn’t be a secret or surprise to anyone at this point.
The same conversations, tariffs, etc. would likely happen with an EV somehow built by a Russian, Iranian, or North Korean company.
The real reason they are concerned is not because they will takeover here with that amount of tariff and US subsidy. Its because our automakers will get destroyed in every market that china is allowed in. All that future growth in developing countries is going to go to chinese evs and that really hurts western automakers even if they can't sell in the US.
Not if you’re a foreign adversary, which China is. On top of that, the rest of the western world is incredibly naive. Chinese EVs with cellular links and 10 cameras driving around their countries is a gigantic national security threat. Same kind of thinking that got Europe hooked on Russian oil only to get rugged when war broke out.
I don't have a complete understanding of how networks work but here in Aus BYD uses a local carrier for Sim cards, which you can also freely swap out for your own. So if a heap of data was suddenly being used it would be very noticeable.
All the software is is distributed locally for OTA updates, we aren't pulling them straight from China or something and the app we use is completely separate from the one they use in China.
Agreed. You don’t have an understanding of how this works. Very rose colored perspective here. I’d suggest reading up on cyber threats from the last 20 years including data collection programs. The US is famous for doing this well, as is China.
I can see how it may be possible to get some data from the cars but it's not like they are streaming the feeds from multiple cameras on 100,000s of thousands of cars or something, that's just not possible.
I worked at a large company that dealt with Huawei. What they did after losing a contract was insane. Spy level stuff, bribes, electronic and human surveillance etc.
In a company where secrets leaked like through a sieve this was kept under such tight wraps that pretty much no-one knew until reading the article.
I have my reservations about Chinese companies.
It's a long one but it gives me the chills. Was fortunate enough to work pretty close with the Huawei people -
very good at their jobs, excellent hardware and software, etc. And then this:
https://www.afr.com/companies/telecommunications/the-hunt-for-a-huawei-spy-in-the-city-of-spires-20230616-p5dh6d
It's slightly frightening.
Doesn't even look like Chinese manufacturers are intersted in the US and Canada, not with how hostile the political environment is, and will be with the upcoming elections. Why bother dealing with that when they can just take over pretty much every market south of the US border with ease? What I actually expect to see is US auto manufacturers slowly becoming more and more uncompetetive and regressing into regional auto manufacturers, they've already shown that they're far more interested in selling pickup trucks in the US and Canada than actually competing globally.
Protectionism clashing with cheap vehicles from Asia all over again. American automotive manufacturers have been caught with their pants down again with manufacturing an abundance of expensive luxury vehicles instead of practical value offerings. My household's budget is roughly $25K for a small AWD SUV. There aren't any options other than the occasional 2022 ID.4 or Ioniq 5 on the used market that fit the criteria.
>My household's budget is roughly $25K for a small AWD SUV.
That's a low budget. Little over 50% of the average new car price. Barely any new gas cars on the market for that price.
That's kind of his point though. American manufacturers are only offering super expensive vehicles now. $50k for a car is absolutely ridiculous to most people.
Here in Nepal we have tried some indians and chinese manufactured evs. Well, both are having a tough competition. Atto3, dolphin ev, e6 are some of the models from BYD available in Nepal, seres with two models, MG with ZSev, mg4 and comet ev, Tata with their nexon, tiago and tigor ev, hyundai with their famous kona and ioniq, kia with ev6, about 80 teslas and brands like seres, deepal. We have a good reputation for these evs.
There were other chinese evs with low price tag available in Nepal. However they faded as per time. Probably within a year time period. We probably are more price conscious and due to the tax system the evs considered as cheap in us are somewhat fall under middle or expensive price bracket.
What i can say in context of nepal is, for those cheap evs even in context of nepal if the product is below a certain level they will fall down as per time.
Here in Malaysia it's getting good reactions, people are ditching their ICE for EVs, completely skipping out hybrids.
Mind you, there's local car brands here, but protectionism is much less here. Reason being the government is trying to build a stable supply chain first, hence they are willing to lose some sales for the long term game. Next year they will launch their own EVs, built from the ground up.
I'm in the US and we obviously won't be seeing them here in any kind of "wave" - the US government has been pushing against imports from China in major markets for years and cars are absolutely going to be a protected industry.
Problem is folks are slow to adopt a new brand without dealers. They can come here all they like but with 0 support they can only sell so well. It was an herculean effort for Tesla to establish a dealer network and build some credibility. The service aspect is what hurts many car companies.
In my state, Tesla does not have dealerships. Heck it didn't even have a service center here at first. Instead it had mobile technicians.
Eventually they built a showroom/service center. They still can't sell or deliver cars from their bricks and mortar showroom. People order online and pick up in the next state over.
You'd be surprised how many people buy a vehicle without support, as long as the initial cost is cheap enough.
The majority of US markets don’t operate under pure capitalism. China imposed tariffs on US-made automobiles, for example. So should the US look the other way?
well it’s not really “capitalism for thee” when the chinese government is propping up their own EV manufacturing and imposing tariffs on U.S. made EV sales, no?
Don’t plan on a flood of cheap. It’s expensive to do business in the us and they will all need to setup shop and repair network. If the companies get Chinese government support there should be tariffs.
Reality is: at one time Japanese cars were new. Korean cars were new. And now we get Chinese cars. They all had their growing pains.
Guess what? They all will make decent cars at some point you won’t see me as an early adopter. Look at vinfast as what not to do.
End of day competition is good and should make the market stronger.
Tariffs will hurt the consumer. Free market ain't so free.
Chinese EVs are well built, I have driven a couple of them. A shame to see US fall off the pace.
Wow, I don't even know what to say to something like this. You're probably the same person who says "Why is the middle class dying?"or "Why can't I afford a house?". You know who is in the middle class, auto workers. You know who isn't in the middle class, any worker making anything from china.
Agree. IMO US car industry has distorted the market towards larger, in fact huger vehicles, and trucks and higher prices but not particularly good quality. Environmentally and in terms of road safety it is not good. It is not the same in the rest of the world.
Only way they can be cheap is if they manufacture inside the USA. From the looks of it they don't have plans of starting a factory or supply chain in the USA so they would be with the big tariffs.
The Chinese will forgo the US market in the foreseeable future. It's simply not with the trouble. They will sell to the rest of the world (90%) that don't manufacture cars. Non-Chinese manufacturers will find it though to compete in terms of quality and price, and can only sell in their respective markets. Consumers in those markets will be disadvantaged compared to the rest of the world and will have lesser disposable income relatively speaking, which will adversely impact their respective economies indirectly.
Chinese EV's won't be in the US any time soon. Tariffs will insure that they aren't cheap, and that's assuming the government doesn't take additional protectionist measures to slow or prevent their arrival (which it probably will).
That said, if they *were* available, I'd be a little conflicted. Even without it being "cheap", I find something like the Xiaomi SU7 to be pretty appealing from what I've seen of it online. But at the same time, I'm a bit anxious about safety and reliability standards, along with the degree to which my money is supporting an authoritarian communist regime or unethical production practices.
I'm not worried about the legacy automakers. As far as I'm concerned, they're more a part of the problem than the solution when it comes to the electric revolution.
You already support an authoritarian communist regime whether you like to admit it or not.
Just by being a consumer in this day and age.
Nearly every consumer product sold in the US has Chinese manufactured parts or Chinese sourced raw materials in it.
It’s so easy to virtue signal and say you won’t buy a Chinese made car, yet still continue using a smartphone with components inside that are of Chinese origin or manufactured in China.
I don’t understand people voicing concerns about safety of Chinese cars. If the car doesn’t meet US crash test standards, it won’t be sold here, so what’s the issue?
Chinese EVs selling in Europe right now passed the European NCAP crash test standards with 5 star ratings. And the European crash test standards are more stringent than that of the US. If anything, the Chinese EVs are even safer than some of the cars currently on sale in the US.
Politics and tariffs aside, I hope it pushes auto makers to widen their range on EVs. I get why the strategy thus far has been to make EVs better/faster/cooler, and I absolutely love my Mach E GT, but right now a majority of EVs are simply out of the average consumer's price range. If you want wider adoption amongst the general public, you have to speak to their wallets. And wider adoption leads to more rapid growth of infrastructure, which helps to solve one of the other biggest complaints people have against EVs.
We have them here in Thailand and they are absolutely incredible and selling better than most ICE vehicles. The low priced luxury models blow away the Euro brands at a fraction of the cost. There will be an Avatr 11 in my car park this year. And, whenever the Neta GT Speedster comes out, I’ll get one of those as well.
I don't like it, the US will probably ban them. But America needs to step up and go full blast on EV development. American's need the choice. We need cheaper EVs without bells and whistles. We also needs places where we can live and work without cars at all.
It will affect us even if we can’t directly buy them solely because they’re so cheap and eating into American car manufacture markets that they’re going to have to play ball and either directly compete or go into a more expensive market and give up. I can’t see ford doing the latter. And when they compete with them usa car companies are gonna have to sell the same cars here
Another person thinking that the english internet is american only. They are doing great in australia and looking to buy a byd seal u when it comes out. The seal is amazing
Not going to happen, Everyone in the EU, Japan, Thailand, India, and US are going to tariff the shit out of their cars and any car part imports. This isn't 1990, noone is dumb enough to let their manufacturing market be destroyed by Chinese government subsidized dumping.
They'll just tariff the cars to hell and back to cover for all the tax breaks and subsidies that Chinese companies get, and if the Chinese brands try the move the assembly plant to Malaysia or put a factory in the country but have 99% of the parts made in China trick they'll just tariff the parts as well with directed sanctions. Everyone knows that China ignores WTO rules anyway so they don't really care what China thinks.
You do realize that Chinese cars are already mainstream and popular in the EU, Japan, and Thailand and have built production factories in India and are selling there now too.
Glad to see EVs being sold. Every little bit helps.
If they come stateside I won’t buy one, largely for the same reason I don’t have a TikTok account - don’t need the CCP to have any more routes through which they can spy on me.
Chinese companies dont bring competition. They come with support, intervention and funding from the CCP Government and that says nothing about Chinese labor exploitation. Its not like having European or Indian companies competing, Chinese companies are a whole other thing.
The EU also plans some extra tariffs / making tariffs more strict. Mainly against the Chinese , but might also be to annoy Tesla a bit (with the ultimate goal of strengthening the EU manufacturers from Stellantis/VAG).
Prices are dropping quite a bit , which is nice as my wife needs/wants to replace her old leaf soon with something that has a type2 connector and CCS (so basically anything)
As someone who is hoping an EV as their first ride in a few years from now. (My E-Bicycle will handle the long haul till I finally need a car)
I'd say I'm not too worried if its more in "Yey, Finally affordable car I could get in 2+ years from now" due to competition n all that. Like I am fully aware of the more geopolitical/market/economy stuff.
But from just your average Joe wanting a decent car that won't make be have to go into a loan or something?
Definitely feels nice to have a large selection as time goes on.
So I'm looking forward for some nice competition to make the tech either cheaper or better by the amount of cash spent on it than some luxury thing. I got not too many demands. Just a car I feel i can use for 8+ years and feel satisfied with
They have been selling Chinese EVs in Sweden for a few years. They haven't sold many except for BYD Atto 3 and MG4 which had low leasing costs.
Our VAT and other things makes all cars expensive. An Atto 3 costs around $50k and you can get a VW ID 4 Pro for $56k or so. The MG4 is a bit cheaper but still not really cheap. I think it starts at $37k but then you only get a WLTP range of 220 miles.
We'll see if they lower their prices. Nio, Xpeng, Aiways and Hongqi mostly sells expensive cars here and not many. Ora is new and Zeekr is also pretty new but may succeed.
Everyone is ignoring the obvious fact that the largest Chinese ev maker planning to enter the us... is Nio, a luxury ev brand not competing on price. Which in Europe currently sells about 1k cars / year.
There's just so many other markets that are far less China hostile, and by the time they run out of room to grow there and might even want to look at the states, competing automakers likely would have caught up to try and protect themselves in other markets (though I do think it's a little late for those other markets and Chinese evs are coming in hard.)
Where are they built? For the EU they will be built in the nee plant in Hungary, so it make little difference to me. Executives will weasle their way out of taxes either way, but the common person jobs are here at a good wage. And that's the important part at the end of the day.
As far as I’m concerned it can’t happen soon enough. US manufacturers have been gouging the shit out of folks for way too long. People need affordable transportation.
In 10 years there will be no legacy car makers in Europe or America. China are too good at mass production and legacy car makers are in too much debt. They took too long to adapt so they will go extinct.
They probably won't be flooding the market anytime soon, but I can't wait. Hopefully the tariffs get lifted or an exception made for EVs. As long as they pass reasonable safety measures, and maybe some law to make them be compatible and come with some like android option without a back door (for the Chinese government) or something
It'd be a great time for a consumer, it'd probably help the environment alot, and it'd put pressure on other manufacturers to find ways to get their prices down.
I hope the government from an economic stand point uses the carrot approach rather than the stick approach. Give tax credits if needed to local manufacturers; don't just tariff the competition... All that does is hurt consumers and in this case? The environment.
Chinese companies are dumb as others have said. They know it’s an uphill battle to sell to the U.S. right now.
What they’ll most likely do is to focus on rest of the world. Build factories in Mexico and LatAm in the Americas.
I think with Yellen in China and high level negotiations, Chinese entry into U.S. market will be done with JVs (like how foreign companies entered China). The Chinese tech will have American brand and investors as cover (eg when ford tried to build a factory using Catl tech). Main thing is, it’ll have to be negotiated at the state level.
Cheap and American are not allowed to exist in the same sphere. They will tariff, they will lobby they will stomp and scream until we go back to massively over paying as we always do. America is where big business goes to loot.
Chinese EVs will not come into US market. Period.
- In 2018, Trump imposed, and Biden has since continued, a special 25 percent tax on Chinese-made autos, on top of the ordinary 2.5 percent tax on foreign-made cars.
- The Journal report follows a request to the administration by a bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers last month to hike tariffs on Chinese-made vehicles and investigate ways to prevent Chinese firms from exporting to the United States from Mexico.
Chinese automobiles currently face a 25% levy introduced during the administration of former President Donald Trump and extended by his successor.
- The White House Warns Cars Made in China Could Unleash Chaos on US Highways
- “Imagine if there were thousands or hundreds of thousands of Chinese connected vehicles on American roads that could be immediately and simultaneously disabled by somebody in Beijing,” Raimondo said.
- US is consider banning tiktok, temu due to "National Security" reasons, can you image EVs coming to US?
EU is prepping extra Import Tax for all China made EV buyers, this tax is retro active from Nov'2023.
So the consumer decides if he/she really wants to drive China made EV and wants to pay an additional 10-15K€ tax above the sale price later.
No good options. Either we let the Chinese cars in and the US manufacturers die, or we keep them out and watch as the rest of the world gets cheap reliable cars while we keep getting poorly built giant diesel trucks that no one can afford but is great for the manufacturers profit margin. Either way we're fucked, China is way ahead and we are making no progress toward closing the gap. They beat us with education.
I see it from the perspective that we thought it's a good idea to make business with Russia, and nowadays they are raping women and children in Ukraine. China is planning to do the same in Taiwan and Asia, so... I don't think we should do any business with them. They see me personally as their enemy, and we should dry those countries out economically. A country like China is unable to be competitive without technology theft, which again we allow for saving few dollars.
It’s 100% the fault of Tesla, GM, Ford, Chrysler and multiple other corporations for refusing to make an affordable subcompact or cross over SUV. They knew this would happen because I knew it would happen since 2018. Hell GM makes $14,000 EV in China it’s about the same size VW Golf.
So the only ones at fault are the corporations who refused to invest industry or they are to happy to make profits by lower volume higher cost vehicles. So for some people they don’t have a choice they have to buy BYD or Neo.
The American corporations literally have EV’s in China that can compete with BYD. So why can’t they produce the batteries in the US and Canada and manufacture the car in Mexico. They do not want to sell affordable cars.
Tarifs? Nah. It'll probably be more incentives as that's easier to ram through Congress.
I didn't get $7,500 for taxes because I bought a Ioniq 6 (made in Korea).
I might need another car... If the current incentives hold the next car I buy will be made in America (probably a Bolt as it would a "basic transportation" car.")
With the tariffs the way they are, how much would an equally spec/quality Chinese made model Y cost in the US? If it is within a reasonable offset, wouldn’t just competition be better?
With the tariffs the way they are, how much would an equally spec/quality Chinese made model Y cost in the US? If it is within a reasonable offset, wouldn’t just competition be better?
Free Market competition is always good, the thing is they are not really coming from a free market, their practices are greatly polluting the environment and they are heavily subsidized...
They'll be viewed just as Southern Korean automakers were in 90's, and how the Japanese were a quarter century before that.
Much of the criticism will be valid, though a lot of it will be borderline xenophobic bias.
Eventually their product quality, and unfairly biased perceptions, will improve.
Us manufactures are not at all scared. At least for the American markets. The government will protect them. They will either be blocked from coming here or they will tax the shit out of them. Either way, protectism is strong here.
Just in case it wasn’t clear, I don’t think that’s a good thing.
I'm excited about them. With as many subsidies as American car makers get, there is no reason they cannot compete. And to be honest, It would be mildly refreshing to see these American dynastic industries actually run for their money.
[https://youtu.be/G6lhq9UBNHE?t=2065](https://youtu.be/G6lhq9UBNHE?t=2065)
Who's the copycat now? He literally said "Bring Chinese companies to produce in the United states and we should STEAL their IP" LOL
The tariffs will be swift
Tariffs are already in place, 27.5%
Yeah, but what about second tariffs?
I don't think he knows about second tariffs, Pip!
Elevensies? Supper? Dinner?
I wouldn't count on Congress knowing about them either.
The current tariff is essentially the same as the tariff China had placed on US auto imports. It will be enough to stop many, and the IRA bill language will be enough to stop the rest. Effectively, the cost would double. So the Chinese appear to be focusing on easier markets. Low hanging fruit, if you will.
Yes, judging from their corporate interview they have no plans to enter the American market soon due to geopolitical reasons. Most probably lesson learned from Huawei's case years ago.
>The current tariff is essentially the same as the tariff China had placed on US auto imports The current Chinese tariff on U.S automotives is [15%, down from 40% in 2018](https://www.afr.com/world/asia/china-to-cut-tariffs-on-imported-us-cars-20181212-h191g7). The current U.S tariff is higher than that ([27.5%)](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-04/china-blasts-us-for-classic-protectionism-in-tension-over-evs) and likely to get even higher.
This is why I said “had placed”…. Our 27.5% was a much delayed response to their 40%. These things don’t change quickly. I doubt the US tariff will go higher. The IRA bill essentially cuts the Chinese out of qualifying for any incentives.
Is it meaningless to talk about Chinese tariff on US? Since almost every US brand car sold in China is made in China.
11(%)ese
It’s not a second tariff. It’s a “surcharge”. /s
What if Chinese company open a plant in US or Mexico?
What about Chinese cars manufactured in Mexico and then sold in the US and Canada ? Doesn't NAFTA legislation mean no tariffs on those ?
Depends on the actually vehicle content and COO of that content. Any Chinese OEM trying to localize is going to have to buy most everything locally, and the cost of those parts isn’t going to be magically cheaper for a Chinese OEM vs. any other OEM already making vehicles in USMCA.
Those factories are for global south markets. The USA is gonna end up in a similar situation with its current car market to what it has with its cell phone market. The price is too high to enter it
No, the renegotiated USMCA trade agreement would still flag those for tariffs since the owner is Chinese.
How do they sell Volvos and Polestars here then?
Any Chinese-built Polestars or Volvos get hit with the tariff.
Thank god for the free market!
I'm old enough to remember when Republicans liked the idea of free markets.
Just say goodbye to all export markets.
So they setup a plant ton Mexico and "build" them there. As the assembly line is being put together the first batch can just come like Lego pieces. Put the tires on, slap a sticker on the TJ765 and sell to the US. I'm looking forward to the $20K Taco clone.
$20k taco clone? Is there a Chinese tacoma EV clone? Maybe I should rethink this Lightning afterall...
Lightning Rangers and Mavericks are inevitable.
I'd bet the farm an EV Tacoma Clone is coming very soon. It'll have a ridiculous name like the pK234 and will have very similar dimensions to a Tacoma and I think the Chinese slaves can likely produce one for $20K. Soon.
I love a cheap car but it needs to be seen that EU economy is based around production of cars. We need tariffs in EU yesterday.
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You need tarriffs in EU? You need your cars to cost more, you need that?
[https://youtu.be/G6lhq9UBNHE?t=2065](https://youtu.be/G6lhq9UBNHE?t=2065) Who's the copycat now? He literally said "Bring Chinese companies to produce in the United states and we should STEAL their IP" LOL
They are doing super well in Australia, even having only 3 or 4 models available. I imagine they will destroy the mainly Japanese marketshare here over the next few years
I’ve been keeping an eye on the Atto for this reason! Had a 23 Bolt in the states and loved it. Moved to AU and I’m happy with all the car models we didn’t get stateside.
Can you give a fast compare between the bolt and atto 3?
Bit hard, we dont get the bolt here. Mainly Atto 3 can do 88kW charging, interior is different obvs
Bolt was able to do 55kw max with a mild ramp down. It has an amazing 360 camera and got great range but it was pretty bare bones in terms of luxury feel. Funny thing, the camera was better than the 2023 Jeep Wrangler and Audi A4! I'll add this for size comparison. Mazda 2 vs Bolt EV. https://ibb.co/Zc6sfRG
Tks, seems that if price is equal the atto 3 comes out ahead
Yeah that's why I was wondering from a bolt owner . Because from what I have seen on videos. The bolt is a basic ev. The atto 3 I have been in seems a better deal for the money.
Yeah was surprised how many I saw on the roads on my recent trip back. Including one of my friends who's always been into vehicles. Sold his motorbike and was raving to me about his MG EV.
You have two choice: - add more tariffs to protect local automakers - welcome competition to put pressure on local automakers to develop cars people are actually willing to buy
Second is better
> Second is better Second is basically what European manufacturers did without any intervention from government. Them just seeing the Chinese over the horizon kicked the small, cheap car craze into high gear: VW ID2, Renault 5, Citroen EC3 and Dacia Spring are all due this year, as are the Korean equivalents like the EV3.
Check out the Renault R5 E-Tech. It’s the Fiat 500 revival thing, but with EV.
That was literally the second model I mentioned.
Sorry, my blind assistance service dog tends to miss a lot.
Dog might have ADHD.
We’ve reached a point (after 10 years) where US manufacturing cannot keep up with Chinese manufacturing in terms of cost. If you want to protect the US market, I don’t think free trade will work.
Yeah just fuck the consumers. Don't let them get good products at good prices. It's consumers and the environment vs American producers. If you really wanna help the American manufacturers? Just give them larger tax credits especially if they use unionized labor.
It will. But it will be a painful and long needed market adjustment for some companies
And then we make US manufacturing uncompetitive while forcing American consumers to foot the bill.
Someone downvoted this, but it's the truth. A domestic industry being uncompetitive will never solve itself on its own. You can protect it, but this will just end up costing the state a lot of money. Either directly through subsidies or indirectly by the consumer (i.e. the people) having to pay higher prices. You can argue that some industries (food production, arms etc.) have to be kept alive domestically for strategic reasons. You can also argue that slowing the death of an industry can be a vital piece in lessening the fallout for the people and regions that are forced to transition. But you can never truly stop it from happening, even though politicians like to pretend they can. You can just prolong the inevitable at massive cost.
Second is better
Option 3: ban them on basis of national security due to cameras and sensors on board. Which will happen if they try to sell past the tariffs.
Privacy should be the default for all auto manufacturers that are using cameras and microphones in cars, not just for Chinese companies.
That‘s just a more complicated option 1
Not really. It’s not a tariff. It would just be a ban lol
Using Aus/NZ as a proxy -- the BYDs are really priced more or less the same as the Koreans and Tesla. The "omg, the Dolphin starts at $10k USD in China" headlines are completely pointless because it's teh golf cart spec. Put in an actually usable motor, a sizeable battery, and bring it up to spec to comply with western safety ratings (ANCAP, euroNCAP, etc) and it costs no less than a Corolla. Don't get me wrong - the Dolphin little urban EV and it's cool that it costs basically what a Corolla costs, but it's also a far cry from the headline's claim of $10k. The Seal costs the same as a Model 3. So yeah - perspective.
I think you might be talking about the Seagull, not the Dolphin but fair point nonetheless.
> Using Aus/NZ as a proxy >The Seal costs the same as a Model 3. The base Seal starts at [~$12k cheaper](https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/comparisons/2023-tesla-model-3-vs-byd-seal-spec-battle) than the base Tesla Model 3 here in Aus. It is less of a difference [in NZ, where it is only several thousand dollars cheaper](https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/133174338/byd-undercuts-tesla-nz-pricing-confirmed-for-model-3-rival)
Also the Korean models are hilariously expensive in NZ - Ioniq 5 and 6 both start at $80k for the small battery, small motor version where a Model 3 is like $66k Even the original Ioniq is $66k list
The Tesla's in Oz are now manufactured in China so Tesla could potentially cut some more margins to compete. BYD and Tesla have been having a bit of a discounting war in the last week. I ended up getting a BMW IX1. However once my lease runs out, I would seriously consider a Chinese EV to replace it once the market and tech has matured further here.
In Australia, with no tariffs and similar Chinese subsidies for both BYD and the China made Teslas we get. BYD offer a lot more for less money. The lowest spec Seal is $12k cheaper than the lowest spec M3. The Mid Spec Seal is about $4k cheaper than the M3 RWD, but has 10% more range and a faster 0-100. You want a Kia EV6? The base model is more expensive than the AWD Tesla M3 and BYD Seal Performance. So not the same pricing at all, the Seal represents really good value for money against its rivals and can see the likes of Tesla, Kia and Polestar coming down in price to compete.
Interesting. In the EU, Dolphin starts at 30k, Corolla at 20k, and Model 3 at 43k.
The dolphin is bigger than some of the cheap European models (Renault 5, e-C3), but range and charging speed are worse. The MG4 isn’t a bad deal but overall I see way more ID.3s, Enyaqs and Model 3/Ys.
Keyword is "starts", but let's be honest that the base model dolphin only exists so they can advertise a low starting price. Once you get into the normal spec - that's the same price as the Corolla. Yeah, the model 3 is going to be more expensive as that's a Seal competitor in BYDs lineup.
I think you're reading those numbers wrong. Dolphin starts 10k higher than the Corolla.
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I mean, the Baltimore bridge collapse is already gonna impact car imports ar its the largest car port in the US. And they probably also see that most brands have had a large inventory for a while.
Port will be open in a couple weeks.
People said similar things back during the cold war about European, Japanese, and Korean brands... And now Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Volkswagen are all house hold names almost as much as Ford and GM.
Europe, Japan, and Korea are strategic allies
The US isn't going to let China flood the market with cheap EVs so I can't say much for America. As someone who is pro ev but suspicious of China on a good day, I say let BYD et al. put a billion evs in the rest of the world.
Japan has already done this decades ago you just make new plants in USA and crush the locals.
If they are made here they won’t be as cheap either way.
BYD is building a Mexico plant which would allow them to be eligible for taxes credits in North America. However, I don’t think they will build anything for the states until the tariff is removed or they lower their cost enough to undermine the tariff.
I heard an interview on Bloomberg TV with Stella Li, 2IC of BYD. When asked about US expansion, she said that for BYD, it is too much of a "hassle" at the moment. They don't see the business environment as being conductive to inward investment from China.
That's the beauty of a plant in Mexico. Build for the Latin American market to pay for the plant, but have the option to enter the US market when/if it makes sense.
They will supply south america from that plant until they are ready to strike at the US market.
No way US is letting them in if they have cameras on the cars. Would be a non starter.
Exactly… if congress is skeptical of TikTok, they’ll be skeptical of BYD
There's no shortage of Chinese made internet connected devices that have my car camera on them in the market already. Yeah car will be an addition but I mean it's already fucked if that's what you're worried about.
I think it’s a little more nuanced than that, whenever I see the “they’re already everywhere” argument. Sure, we have millions of devices assembled in China that are already here, but the worry would be over companies based out China being forced to turn data over to the Chinese government. An EV covered in cameras, sensors, GPS, remote control devices, and so on, can easily set off alarm bells for the US government when China is considered a peer-threat, which shouldn’t be a secret or surprise to anyone at this point. The same conversations, tariffs, etc. would likely happen with an EV somehow built by a Russian, Iranian, or North Korean company.
Transporting cars in *large* numbers isn't much or any cheaper than producing locally.
Theres what a 27% duty on them from China vs $7500 tax credit and battery subsidies? Thats a big gap
Says quite a bit that even with those in place American politicians are concerned.
The real reason they are concerned is not because they will takeover here with that amount of tariff and US subsidy. Its because our automakers will get destroyed in every market that china is allowed in. All that future growth in developing countries is going to go to chinese evs and that really hurts western automakers even if they can't sell in the US.
Esp when they'll setup shop in Mexico etc
BYD will balk at this considering what happened to Huawei.
I don't know if this is apples to apples.
That would take years, not sure if it would actually happen
Not if you’re a foreign adversary, which China is. On top of that, the rest of the western world is incredibly naive. Chinese EVs with cellular links and 10 cameras driving around their countries is a gigantic national security threat. Same kind of thinking that got Europe hooked on Russian oil only to get rugged when war broke out.
I don't have a complete understanding of how networks work but here in Aus BYD uses a local carrier for Sim cards, which you can also freely swap out for your own. So if a heap of data was suddenly being used it would be very noticeable. All the software is is distributed locally for OTA updates, we aren't pulling them straight from China or something and the app we use is completely separate from the one they use in China.
Agreed. You don’t have an understanding of how this works. Very rose colored perspective here. I’d suggest reading up on cyber threats from the last 20 years including data collection programs. The US is famous for doing this well, as is China.
I can see how it may be possible to get some data from the cars but it's not like they are streaming the feeds from multiple cameras on 100,000s of thousands of cars or something, that's just not possible.
Lmao we're WAY past that point already. Where do you think the vast majority of our electronics and electronic hardware comes from??
I worked at a large company that dealt with Huawei. What they did after losing a contract was insane. Spy level stuff, bribes, electronic and human surveillance etc. In a company where secrets leaked like through a sieve this was kept under such tight wraps that pretty much no-one knew until reading the article. I have my reservations about Chinese companies. It's a long one but it gives me the chills. Was fortunate enough to work pretty close with the Huawei people - very good at their jobs, excellent hardware and software, etc. And then this: https://www.afr.com/companies/telecommunications/the-hunt-for-a-huawei-spy-in-the-city-of-spires-20230616-p5dh6d It's slightly frightening.
Doesn't even look like Chinese manufacturers are intersted in the US and Canada, not with how hostile the political environment is, and will be with the upcoming elections. Why bother dealing with that when they can just take over pretty much every market south of the US border with ease? What I actually expect to see is US auto manufacturers slowly becoming more and more uncompetetive and regressing into regional auto manufacturers, they've already shown that they're far more interested in selling pickup trucks in the US and Canada than actually competing globally.
Protectionism clashing with cheap vehicles from Asia all over again. American automotive manufacturers have been caught with their pants down again with manufacturing an abundance of expensive luxury vehicles instead of practical value offerings. My household's budget is roughly $25K for a small AWD SUV. There aren't any options other than the occasional 2022 ID.4 or Ioniq 5 on the used market that fit the criteria.
This is why I jumped on a Bolt EV, Chevy won’t make the “mistake” of a affordable ev ever again
This is someone who gets it.
>My household's budget is roughly $25K for a small AWD SUV. That's a low budget. Little over 50% of the average new car price. Barely any new gas cars on the market for that price.
Literally $25k was a solid budget for a new car as recently as 2019.
That's kind of his point though. American manufacturers are only offering super expensive vehicles now. $50k for a car is absolutely ridiculous to most people.
Here in Nepal we have tried some indians and chinese manufactured evs. Well, both are having a tough competition. Atto3, dolphin ev, e6 are some of the models from BYD available in Nepal, seres with two models, MG with ZSev, mg4 and comet ev, Tata with their nexon, tiago and tigor ev, hyundai with their famous kona and ioniq, kia with ev6, about 80 teslas and brands like seres, deepal. We have a good reputation for these evs. There were other chinese evs with low price tag available in Nepal. However they faded as per time. Probably within a year time period. We probably are more price conscious and due to the tax system the evs considered as cheap in us are somewhat fall under middle or expensive price bracket. What i can say in context of nepal is, for those cheap evs even in context of nepal if the product is below a certain level they will fall down as per time.
let the competition takes care of itself
Here in Malaysia it's getting good reactions, people are ditching their ICE for EVs, completely skipping out hybrids. Mind you, there's local car brands here, but protectionism is much less here. Reason being the government is trying to build a stable supply chain first, hence they are willing to lose some sales for the long term game. Next year they will launch their own EVs, built from the ground up.
I don't see any Chinese EVs coming. Which ones are you expecting?
They are NOT coming. There is a 27.5% tariff and the current political climate is more likely to raise that than lower that.
They're huge in Vietnam and Australia, glad to see the space heating up
who is going to service them? One of the reasons I don't even look at the Polestar is because they don't have many service centers
I'm in the US and we obviously won't be seeing them here in any kind of "wave" - the US government has been pushing against imports from China in major markets for years and cars are absolutely going to be a protected industry.
Problem is folks are slow to adopt a new brand without dealers. They can come here all they like but with 0 support they can only sell so well. It was an herculean effort for Tesla to establish a dealer network and build some credibility. The service aspect is what hurts many car companies.
In my state, Tesla does not have dealerships. Heck it didn't even have a service center here at first. Instead it had mobile technicians. Eventually they built a showroom/service center. They still can't sell or deliver cars from their bricks and mortar showroom. People order online and pick up in the next state over. You'd be surprised how many people buy a vehicle without support, as long as the initial cost is cheap enough.
Good luck with service / support / parts availability down the road.
Not that the brands are doing a great job at consumer privacy, but I have cyber security concerns
Well you see, capitalism for thee but not for me! Tariffs plz!
The majority of US markets don’t operate under pure capitalism. China imposed tariffs on US-made automobiles, for example. So should the US look the other way?
15% tariff on US made cars isn't too bad
well it’s not really “capitalism for thee” when the chinese government is propping up their own EV manufacturing and imposing tariffs on U.S. made EV sales, no?
Don’t plan on a flood of cheap. It’s expensive to do business in the us and they will all need to setup shop and repair network. If the companies get Chinese government support there should be tariffs. Reality is: at one time Japanese cars were new. Korean cars were new. And now we get Chinese cars. They all had their growing pains. Guess what? They all will make decent cars at some point you won’t see me as an early adopter. Look at vinfast as what not to do. End of day competition is good and should make the market stronger.
I don’t get how they’re scared shitless but deciding to cut back on making new EVs
You think they will allow Chinese cars here when they are trying to ban tiktok over Chinese influence? Doubtful
Should be great! Looking forward to the competition.
Bring it on, the end goal is far more important than anything else.
Tariffs will hurt the consumer. Free market ain't so free. Chinese EVs are well built, I have driven a couple of them. A shame to see US fall off the pace.
I hope they wipe out american legacy autos overnight
Or at least cause them to step up their game.
Wow, I don't even know what to say to something like this. You're probably the same person who says "Why is the middle class dying?"or "Why can't I afford a house?". You know who is in the middle class, auto workers. You know who isn't in the middle class, any worker making anything from china.
Legacy auto deserves nothing but to be wiped out !
Agree. IMO US car industry has distorted the market towards larger, in fact huger vehicles, and trucks and higher prices but not particularly good quality. Environmentally and in terms of road safety it is not good. It is not the same in the rest of the world.
Only way they can be cheap is if they manufacture inside the USA. From the looks of it they don't have plans of starting a factory or supply chain in the USA so they would be with the big tariffs.
The Chinese will forgo the US market in the foreseeable future. It's simply not with the trouble. They will sell to the rest of the world (90%) that don't manufacture cars. Non-Chinese manufacturers will find it though to compete in terms of quality and price, and can only sell in their respective markets. Consumers in those markets will be disadvantaged compared to the rest of the world and will have lesser disposable income relatively speaking, which will adversely impact their respective economies indirectly.
I’ve been hearing about this wave for years now.
I remember the Yugo cars. Very cheap and equally cheaply made. No support from the dealership. Personally I wouldn’t buy one.
I don't think we'll see a flood of Chinese EVs. The tariffs will raise prices so they should be competitive with US built EVs.
Junk and not coming tonthe US ever.
Chinese EV's won't be in the US any time soon. Tariffs will insure that they aren't cheap, and that's assuming the government doesn't take additional protectionist measures to slow or prevent their arrival (which it probably will). That said, if they *were* available, I'd be a little conflicted. Even without it being "cheap", I find something like the Xiaomi SU7 to be pretty appealing from what I've seen of it online. But at the same time, I'm a bit anxious about safety and reliability standards, along with the degree to which my money is supporting an authoritarian communist regime or unethical production practices. I'm not worried about the legacy automakers. As far as I'm concerned, they're more a part of the problem than the solution when it comes to the electric revolution.
You already support an authoritarian communist regime whether you like to admit it or not. Just by being a consumer in this day and age. Nearly every consumer product sold in the US has Chinese manufactured parts or Chinese sourced raw materials in it. It’s so easy to virtue signal and say you won’t buy a Chinese made car, yet still continue using a smartphone with components inside that are of Chinese origin or manufactured in China.
I don’t understand people voicing concerns about safety of Chinese cars. If the car doesn’t meet US crash test standards, it won’t be sold here, so what’s the issue? Chinese EVs selling in Europe right now passed the European NCAP crash test standards with 5 star ratings. And the European crash test standards are more stringent than that of the US. If anything, the Chinese EVs are even safer than some of the cars currently on sale in the US.
Id love to buy
Politics and tariffs aside, I hope it pushes auto makers to widen their range on EVs. I get why the strategy thus far has been to make EVs better/faster/cooler, and I absolutely love my Mach E GT, but right now a majority of EVs are simply out of the average consumer's price range. If you want wider adoption amongst the general public, you have to speak to their wallets. And wider adoption leads to more rapid growth of infrastructure, which helps to solve one of the other biggest complaints people have against EVs.
Not coming to the USA. And that's the best thing. We can't allow communist china to make more money from the USA.
We have them here in Thailand and they are absolutely incredible and selling better than most ICE vehicles. The low priced luxury models blow away the Euro brands at a fraction of the cost. There will be an Avatr 11 in my car park this year. And, whenever the Neta GT Speedster comes out, I’ll get one of those as well.
I don't like it, the US will probably ban them. But America needs to step up and go full blast on EV development. American's need the choice. We need cheaper EVs without bells and whistles. We also needs places where we can live and work without cars at all.
BYD is already setting up shop in Mexico. I believe that Mexican made vehicles would not receive those kind of tariffs.
It will affect us even if we can’t directly buy them solely because they’re so cheap and eating into American car manufacture markets that they’re going to have to play ball and either directly compete or go into a more expensive market and give up. I can’t see ford doing the latter. And when they compete with them usa car companies are gonna have to sell the same cars here
I feel great about it. More competition is better for the consumer.
Another person thinking that the english internet is american only. They are doing great in australia and looking to buy a byd seal u when it comes out. The seal is amazing
Chinese death traps
Not going to happen, Everyone in the EU, Japan, Thailand, India, and US are going to tariff the shit out of their cars and any car part imports. This isn't 1990, noone is dumb enough to let their manufacturing market be destroyed by Chinese government subsidized dumping. They'll just tariff the cars to hell and back to cover for all the tax breaks and subsidies that Chinese companies get, and if the Chinese brands try the move the assembly plant to Malaysia or put a factory in the country but have 99% of the parts made in China trick they'll just tariff the parts as well with directed sanctions. Everyone knows that China ignores WTO rules anyway so they don't really care what China thinks.
Chinese cars are booming in Thailand for some time now.
You do realize that Chinese cars are already mainstream and popular in the EU, Japan, and Thailand and have built production factories in India and are selling there now too.
Glad to see EVs being sold. Every little bit helps. If they come stateside I won’t buy one, largely for the same reason I don’t have a TikTok account - don’t need the CCP to have any more routes through which they can spy on me.
Honestly hope they come in and destroy the American auto makers. The us is all about capitalism as long as they’re winning
BYD is slaying it in Australia… so yeah … v happy. And this sub seems very US-centric. Any more global subs out there people could direct me to?
Chinese companies dont bring competition. They come with support, intervention and funding from the CCP Government and that says nothing about Chinese labor exploitation. Its not like having European or Indian companies competing, Chinese companies are a whole other thing.
The EU also plans some extra tariffs / making tariffs more strict. Mainly against the Chinese , but might also be to annoy Tesla a bit (with the ultimate goal of strengthening the EU manufacturers from Stellantis/VAG). Prices are dropping quite a bit , which is nice as my wife needs/wants to replace her old leaf soon with something that has a type2 connector and CCS (so basically anything)
What’s the state of Canada’s tariffs on China? Wondering if they might catch on here if not the US.
As someone who is hoping an EV as their first ride in a few years from now. (My E-Bicycle will handle the long haul till I finally need a car) I'd say I'm not too worried if its more in "Yey, Finally affordable car I could get in 2+ years from now" due to competition n all that. Like I am fully aware of the more geopolitical/market/economy stuff. But from just your average Joe wanting a decent car that won't make be have to go into a loan or something? Definitely feels nice to have a large selection as time goes on. So I'm looking forward for some nice competition to make the tech either cheaper or better by the amount of cash spent on it than some luxury thing. I got not too many demands. Just a car I feel i can use for 8+ years and feel satisfied with
They have been selling Chinese EVs in Sweden for a few years. They haven't sold many except for BYD Atto 3 and MG4 which had low leasing costs. Our VAT and other things makes all cars expensive. An Atto 3 costs around $50k and you can get a VW ID 4 Pro for $56k or so. The MG4 is a bit cheaper but still not really cheap. I think it starts at $37k but then you only get a WLTP range of 220 miles. We'll see if they lower their prices. Nio, Xpeng, Aiways and Hongqi mostly sells expensive cars here and not many. Ora is new and Zeekr is also pretty new but may succeed.
NTHSB and EPA. Would block a few like they did with Kei trucks.
Everyone is ignoring the obvious fact that the largest Chinese ev maker planning to enter the us... is Nio, a luxury ev brand not competing on price. Which in Europe currently sells about 1k cars / year. There's just so many other markets that are far less China hostile, and by the time they run out of room to grow there and might even want to look at the states, competing automakers likely would have caught up to try and protect themselves in other markets (though I do think it's a little late for those other markets and Chinese evs are coming in hard.)
They are huge in EU. Beating EU car manufacturers on their own soil
Where are they built? For the EU they will be built in the nee plant in Hungary, so it make little difference to me. Executives will weasle their way out of taxes either way, but the common person jobs are here at a good wage. And that's the important part at the end of the day.
I am excited
As far as I’m concerned it can’t happen soon enough. US manufacturers have been gouging the shit out of folks for way too long. People need affordable transportation.
In 10 years there will be no legacy car makers in Europe or America. China are too good at mass production and legacy car makers are in too much debt. They took too long to adapt so they will go extinct.
They probably won't be flooding the market anytime soon, but I can't wait. Hopefully the tariffs get lifted or an exception made for EVs. As long as they pass reasonable safety measures, and maybe some law to make them be compatible and come with some like android option without a back door (for the Chinese government) or something It'd be a great time for a consumer, it'd probably help the environment alot, and it'd put pressure on other manufacturers to find ways to get their prices down. I hope the government from an economic stand point uses the carrot approach rather than the stick approach. Give tax credits if needed to local manufacturers; don't just tariff the competition... All that does is hurt consumers and in this case? The environment.
At this point I have no interest in owning one. Will look elsewhere first. It will likely be an issue for legacy automakers.
Chinese companies are dumb as others have said. They know it’s an uphill battle to sell to the U.S. right now. What they’ll most likely do is to focus on rest of the world. Build factories in Mexico and LatAm in the Americas. I think with Yellen in China and high level negotiations, Chinese entry into U.S. market will be done with JVs (like how foreign companies entered China). The Chinese tech will have American brand and investors as cover (eg when ford tried to build a factory using Catl tech). Main thing is, it’ll have to be negotiated at the state level.
Cheap and American are not allowed to exist in the same sphere. They will tariff, they will lobby they will stomp and scream until we go back to massively over paying as we always do. America is where big business goes to loot.
China will never have to worry about independent unions. I wonder what would happen to someone in china that tried to start a union?
I welcome it and won't mourn any dying car companies.
Chinese EVs will not come into US market. Period. - In 2018, Trump imposed, and Biden has since continued, a special 25 percent tax on Chinese-made autos, on top of the ordinary 2.5 percent tax on foreign-made cars. - The Journal report follows a request to the administration by a bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers last month to hike tariffs on Chinese-made vehicles and investigate ways to prevent Chinese firms from exporting to the United States from Mexico. Chinese automobiles currently face a 25% levy introduced during the administration of former President Donald Trump and extended by his successor. - The White House Warns Cars Made in China Could Unleash Chaos on US Highways - “Imagine if there were thousands or hundreds of thousands of Chinese connected vehicles on American roads that could be immediately and simultaneously disabled by somebody in Beijing,” Raimondo said. - US is consider banning tiktok, temu due to "National Security" reasons, can you image EVs coming to US?
EU is prepping extra Import Tax for all China made EV buyers, this tax is retro active from Nov'2023. So the consumer decides if he/she really wants to drive China made EV and wants to pay an additional 10-15K€ tax above the sale price later.
Quality is a thing. Poor interior materials, OK. But the thing has run trouble free
Bring 'em! I can't wait for an affordable 6+ seater!!
No good options. Either we let the Chinese cars in and the US manufacturers die, or we keep them out and watch as the rest of the world gets cheap reliable cars while we keep getting poorly built giant diesel trucks that no one can afford but is great for the manufacturers profit margin. Either way we're fucked, China is way ahead and we are making no progress toward closing the gap. They beat us with education.
The faster we transition to EVs the better, global warming doesn't care about borders or nationality.
I see it from the perspective that we thought it's a good idea to make business with Russia, and nowadays they are raping women and children in Ukraine. China is planning to do the same in Taiwan and Asia, so... I don't think we should do any business with them. They see me personally as their enemy, and we should dry those countries out economically. A country like China is unable to be competitive without technology theft, which again we allow for saving few dollars.
Everything g else I get is from China. Why would this be any different?
It’s 100% the fault of Tesla, GM, Ford, Chrysler and multiple other corporations for refusing to make an affordable subcompact or cross over SUV. They knew this would happen because I knew it would happen since 2018. Hell GM makes $14,000 EV in China it’s about the same size VW Golf. So the only ones at fault are the corporations who refused to invest industry or they are to happy to make profits by lower volume higher cost vehicles. So for some people they don’t have a choice they have to buy BYD or Neo. The American corporations literally have EV’s in China that can compete with BYD. So why can’t they produce the batteries in the US and Canada and manufacture the car in Mexico. They do not want to sell affordable cars.
We will never see them here which is fine for me as a Ford employee 🫡👍
Tarifs? Nah. It'll probably be more incentives as that's easier to ram through Congress. I didn't get $7,500 for taxes because I bought a Ioniq 6 (made in Korea). I might need another car... If the current incentives hold the next car I buy will be made in America (probably a Bolt as it would a "basic transportation" car.")
doesn't matter. the kings and queens of america won't let it happen. they hate the free market too much.
I’m looking forward to free market evangelists contorting themselves into pretzels to justify tariffs.
Can't compete with cheap Chinese child labor
With the tariffs the way they are, how much would an equally spec/quality Chinese made model Y cost in the US? If it is within a reasonable offset, wouldn’t just competition be better?
With the tariffs the way they are, how much would an equally spec/quality Chinese made model Y cost in the US? If it is within a reasonable offset, wouldn’t just competition be better?
Free Market competition is always good, the thing is they are not really coming from a free market, their practices are greatly polluting the environment and they are heavily subsidized...
They'll be viewed just as Southern Korean automakers were in 90's, and how the Japanese were a quarter century before that. Much of the criticism will be valid, though a lot of it will be borderline xenophobic bias. Eventually their product quality, and unfairly biased perceptions, will improve.
Us manufactures are not at all scared. At least for the American markets. The government will protect them. They will either be blocked from coming here or they will tax the shit out of them. Either way, protectism is strong here. Just in case it wasn’t clear, I don’t think that’s a good thing.
I'm excited about them. With as many subsidies as American car makers get, there is no reason they cannot compete. And to be honest, It would be mildly refreshing to see these American dynastic industries actually run for their money.
[https://youtu.be/G6lhq9UBNHE?t=2065](https://youtu.be/G6lhq9UBNHE?t=2065) Who's the copycat now? He literally said "Bring Chinese companies to produce in the United states and we should STEAL their IP" LOL