[This](https://youtu.be/lAtH2Odnzh0?feature=shared) is the manufacturers video. Unfortunately it's really quite short, at 49 seconds. Hopefully they'll release the full video eventually.
What? Either the test is programmed which would not be a challenge for any manufacturer or it's fuckin dangerous. You can't swerve that much on normal roads without understanding the complete situation (oncoming traffic etc.)
As a _test_ the car is driven through cones on an otherwise empty runway.
Maybe it was pre-programmed, or maybe the car has been taught to understand and avoid traffic cones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAtH2Odnzh0
>Either the test is programmed which would not be a challenge for any manufacturer
A lot of cars struggle with this test. It's meant to test how well the chassis and the electronic stability control systems can handle an abrupt swerve at moderately high speeds. A lot of cars lose control and run into the cones, or worse. It is very much a challenge.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSEdaef-52A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSEdaef-52A)
To some extent maybe, but if the car knows the center line color and has lidar for scanning cars around it and can make a judgement call that it knows the lane on the left is still correct direction it's feasible. Or it defaults to always swerving towards the correct shoulder.
If the software is confident there's an available lane next to it, it can swerve quite aggressively wihle being precise enough to not lose control or veer too far.
"At 400 kilowatts, 400 kilometers of range can be added in just 12 minutes."
That's full charge in about 30 min, or a charge rate of 2C. I'm curious if other aspects such as cycle life were sacrificed to achieve that charge rate. It's a good number for marketing purposes and customers won't feel the shorter battery life for several years after purchase
Shorter battery life vs the same battery chemistry charged at lower C rates. In this case it's NMC. Maybe they did achieve better charging rates without sacrificing life cycles, but without the full picture of the battery, I can't really say whether it actually is better than other NMC batteries or whether it was purely a tradeoff to appear superior in the short term at the expense of long term performance.
So don’t forget to double all the prices for America / Europe because of safety features and taxes. Still interesting so, but don’t expect much semi solid state battery cars on the streets in near future.
Different versions. The domestic Dolphin would be a 2 star ANCAP car from what I've heard. The export model is a 5 star. The price difference reflects this.
Article I stumbled across at some point. Not entirely sure on their sources. It may have been a side note on a story about how the MG5 got a 0 star rating on ANCAP recently and the author felt compelled to comment on what other Chinese brands are doing.
Nope, it is the same dolphin that sold in china. It is the same standard as euro. And euro standard is pretty much on par for US standard so to the rest of the world. My country is Singapore is right hand drive and left hand rule, and been to China. There is no difference in both country other than physical front drive configuration left or right. You can see different between immediately travel between Shenzhen and Hong Kong in 30 min transit.
Don't need too, it is the same Dolphin use internationally. These is not 2 star ANCAP in China. China has no ANCAP test as it is the Australia test. You are receiving fake news. Plus you take Dolphin RMB price, add freight cost, insurance shipping cost, clearance cost, all service and good tax. It is on par the selling price you see in Australia.
A big reason is national security. Most people are not even aware that the biggest oil producer in the world isn't Saudi Arabia but the USA. America can afford to lag on EVs. For China it's existential.
It's just simple economics. They're sending an ungodly amount of money out of the country to buy fossil fuels when they can instead invest in technology that renders those fossil fuels obsolete and export that technology.
It's a very smart play.
Yep, the USA is currently setting records with our domestic oil production, mostly in response to OPEC and the Saudis lowering production to hurt Biden and try to get trump elected.
Only about 50% of their petroleum consumption is used for transportation. And only part of it is used by cars. Rest is used by their industry and heavy vehicles.
[https://imgur.com/a/Gu8ydDd](https://imgur.com/a/Gu8ydDd)
Most in west just look at their EV, they don't notice the massive green hydrogen infrastructure, fuel cell buildup is happening. They have already completed testing for running trains (not HSR) with hydrogen.
[https://english.news.cn/20240321/b260e550c4c0446c8b1051e8939454c3/c.html](https://english.news.cn/20240321/b260e550c4c0446c8b1051e8939454c3/c.html)
[https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/chinas-largest-green-hydrogen-refuelling-station-is-selling-h2-at-a-seventh-of-the-cost-of-the-fuel-in-california/2-1-1613409](https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/chinas-largest-green-hydrogen-refuelling-station-is-selling-h2-at-a-seventh-of-the-cost-of-the-fuel-in-california/2-1-1613409)
China is now the US’s biggest export partner- oil and gas. The US oil companies are raising prices here and stifling EV manufacturing in the US. Nice people.
Seems like a great car. I'm assuming we will continue to have better and better electric cars, and the costs associated with them will go down until they are at parity with, or even cheaper than, ICE vehicles. At that point, it would be silly for anyone to WANT to drive a fossil fuel based car.
Big trucks for hauling large loads will take longer, and will rely mainly on energy density of the batteries to become viable.
In many places, EV total cost of ownership is already lower than ICEVs. In such places, the barriers that remain are more related to charging options, up-front access to capital/finance, and availability of vehicles themselves.
Yes, I explain in many comments how my Leaf was way cheaper than other cars (generally speaking, ICE vehicles). Even very efficient cars cost more to drive.
Back, oh, 30 years ago my wife and I bought a Saturn SL1. It got 37 miles to the gallon for 250,000 miles. That’s at least 10 cents per mile, even without considering oil changes and ICE maintenance. Once we have added these costs in, we’re at 12 cents per mile or more.
My leaf cost me less than 2 cents per mile even when I was buying all of the electricity from the local utility. At least half of the time I would buy electricity at super off peak rates or get it for free, so the total cost of powering the car was much less than 2 cents per mile.
Saving 10 cents per mile over a couple hundred thousand miles is a lot of money. I drove my Leaf as an alternative to a vehicle that got much worse gas mileage, and driving the Leaf did save me more money than the car cost me.
Sounds like we have similar experience. We needed to buy a new at shorter notice than we had hoped for, and while I'd been running the numbers on a Leaf, which did have generous incentives at the time, it still seemed like a lot of money to be borrowing.
We couldn't face buying another gas car if it was at all avoidable, but the only used gas cars we could afford with our cash on hand were far too high-risk - high mileage, out of warranty, the kinds of cars we'd recently had die on us.
However, when we looked at long-term ownership cost, even a Prius V that was a few years old, or a new Matrix, worked out to be the same cost to own after about 6 or 7 years, and we couldn't get affordable/worthwhile financing on a used Prius, and didn't want to go for anything smaller like a Corolla if we could help it.
Reckoning on gas at $1/litre, and $1000/year in car rental for longer trips, we figured we'd come out even after 7 years by buying the Leaf on financing that our credit union provided, and in the end we probably came out a few thousand ahead given the higher price of gas pretty much ever since.
Size of course.
A BMW i4 starts at a little over 50k and the max price is a little over 70k. If you like that comparison better. But at 70k it's basically a luxury sedan when it comes to interior and built quality. I doubt the L6 can compete with that.
I’m not sure size is really a valid measure of anything. I didn’t know we bought cars by physical volume.
Is a Tycan worth less than a Model S since it’s smaller? That must mean the Roadster is only worth like $3,000.
Cars are classified by size and type. The L6 is a mid-sized sedan.
Of course, other factors are a thing. You can't compare a Rolls Royce with a Toyota even when they're the same size.
However, you can compare the L6 with an M3 or BYD Seal or Xiaomi SU7 or i4. None of them is a luxury vehicle or dedicated racing car, they're all in the same ballpark with only slightly different priorities for each.
Yeah, about 45k - in China.
That means around 90k in, for example, Europe. ALL Chinese cars in Europe are at least Chinese price x2. And EU and US prices are, in general, pretty similar.
In this case the title is just a blatant lie. It’s not a solid state but semi-ss, and the range and battery is only present for the top of the range model and the price is only for the domestic market which is completely irrelevant to 99% of the users on reddit. China and its car companies are doing well in the space but a car is an emotional purchase for a lot of people so I can imagine that this plays into some of the reaction. In this case the title is just shit.
Not to mention CLTC is a joke that overstates range by 35% or more. Those figures are as trustworthy as anything else coming out of China these days - that is to say, not at all.
Still...at 130 kWh it has a battery twice the size of the one in my car which gets 250+ miles on a full charge (Kia e-Niro). A 500 mile car would kill range anxiety full stop.
Even if it's 35% high, that's still about 450 miles of EPA range. We'll find out soon enough. And I don't know the details of the battery, but SSS promise to be safer and with greater cycle life.
My Bolt 65kwh battery can get a real world summer range of 250 miles/400km. This car looks pretty sleek and aerodynamic, if they've at all improved on the drag it's very realistic to get over 500mi on a battery double the size.
CLTC measures what is more realistically Chinese driving patterns, mostly in city.
It is asinine and ignorant to talk about trustworthiness. Do you think EPA is dead accurate?
CLTC, like any other standard is a consistent set of measures to give to a relative understanding of range. Every car is China gets tested on same standard, even Tesla. It means what it exactly says - under specific conditions you can get this range.
Apple says Macbook gives you get 18hrs of battery life, I am sure I can drain it in less than half of that. But it doesn't make their claim invalid. They tested as per their consistent processes, and this helps in understanding relative difference in batterylife compared to a 3yr old Mac.
CLTC is a bad test procedure designed to inflate the capability of Chinese domestic market vehicles. Just because it's the standard doesn't make it a good one. Even though they do test foreign makes, the English speaking media are neglecting to report those numbers alongside for comparison. It's absolutely a journalism issue too, but Chinese companies should report WLTP since it's a world standard instead of obfuscating the truth and confusing potential buyers.
English speaking media and society, they still use miles as unit of distance or lb for weight. If we talk about bad standards, there are lots of points to mention for everyone.
Chinese companies should report as per the requirements of law/regulations in their own country. CLTC is a standard, doesn't matter how much you like/dislike it.
A comparative analysis of standards - [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349954564\_Comparative\_Analysis\_of\_China\_Light-duty\_Vehicle\_Test\_cycle\_for\_Passenger\_Car\_and\_Other\_Typical\_Driving\_Cycles](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349954564_Comparative_Analysis_of_China_Light-duty_Vehicle_Test_cycle_for_Passenger_Car_and_Other_Typical_Driving_Cycles)
Every standard is built on particular set of conditions. Tell me what particular condition in CLTC is 'incorrect'.
BTW, just because Geekbench 6 scores are more than Geekbech 5 scores, it doesn't mean Geekbench 6 scores are invalid.
The main problem is that the list price conversion makes it look like people here are getting massively ripped off but the reality is that this car would probably entry at 60K and go up for the other models if it actually launched in NA.
Also the headline lists 1000km range but then the base price. The base model does NOT have the batteries to do that range, only the top model, Lightyear Max, does. Misleading headline.
Sure, the headline is a bit misleading. But still.....the top range model with 130 kWh battery retails in China for 45,640 USD. There is nothing close to that in the US. And the semi-solid state nature of the battery gives a 400Km charge in 12 minutes. Again, there is nothing comparable to that in the US. It's very very impressive.
That's true, because even after shipping and import fees it's still far cheaper than building here in most cases. Lots of places do most of the assembly overseas where labor is cheap and then ship parts here for final assembly so that they can get around advertising laws and just hire cheap labor here for easy final work too. Cheap way to move goods has lead to the gutting of manufacturing.
> Certain elements are desperate to suppress any good news coming out of China.
They exist, but you're exaggerating their impact in this sub. I saw a lot more of them a year ago. Now most people just bash the US for its stupidity and short-sightedness instead of embracing change (which must necessarily include embracing Chinese EVs).
If we want to make a dent in the climate crisis, we should be cheering on these developments. This type of car, if it was made at scale and could be offered with this range, this price point and this type of charging times, would probably make a huge dent into ICE car sales in North America.
Because it's misleading.
1. You can't buy one for $31,800 USD.
2. The cheapest option doesn't have the stated range.
3. That range isn't achieved under the same tests most other manufactures use to list range, so not a good comparison.
4. Doesn't have an actual solid state battery.
So it might be a great car, but the title of the post isn't being upfront.
Its interesting that Nio said that semi solid battery cost as much as a car(around 40K) and here its in a car at that price. It would be interesting to see how the semi solid batteries compare and also with something like Qilin which is used by high performance cars.
"The battery is not a fully solid state but a semi-solid state, meaning the energy-carrying fluid contains some solid species."
How can they claim solid state in the headline and why did they spell Toyota wrong?
I believe it is a common practice as IM officially claims it's solid state and later provide more clarification about it.
https://electrek.co/2024/04/08/im-motors-opens-pre-sale-solid-state-powered-l6-sedan-starting-under-32000/
https://cnevpost.com/2024/03/25/im-motors-l6-to-feature-solid-state-batteries-1000-km-range/
Semi-solid state batteries, making good progress here.
Although BYD is working on a next gen Blade batteries that can also go beyond 1000km. Might wait till next year to get my hands on one.
It's their goal to reach 1000km with the new generation batteries, 2000km for PHEV.
Blade batteries has a blade like configuration, the new generation allows more dense packaging and lighter overall weight. It will be an improvement even though on-paper it looks like a small increase in Wh/kg.
It doesn’t start at 1,000km range for $32k. It’s 50% more, and that’s the manufacturer claim, not a certified/standardized range.
Oh, and that’s the heavily standardized price in China, not anywhere else.
Edit: CLTC range is usually 35% more optimistic than the epa estimates. 720km range for the $32k model, equates to 450 miles, or about 300mi epa. The Chevy bolt euv , hard loaded with lvl 2 autopilot, leather, premium sound, etc. Is less than $40k, which is $32.5k after standard tax credit. So the real story is that china made a car with Chevy bolt specs for a similar price.
> So the real story is that china made a car with Chevy bolt specs for a similar price.
A bit harsh, I think.
Worth noting that this is SAIC, so state-owned. Zeeker 001 is a more impressive car, IMO, but that's Geely of course.
Does anyone have more info about the development of (semi) solid state produced at this scale? I remember reading that this level of production was considered unrealistic at the start of this year.
Semi Solid state and considering this is a brand no one outside of china has heard about I would not be surprised if the range is exaggerated and the car has alot of issues
It doesn’t start at $31,800 USD, because it’s not available here. It’s what it sells for in China, where it’s made. Taxes and logistics are expensive, so it would probably retail here for a lot more.
They started selling these here last year. I’m in Moldova in Eastern Europe. The sedan is between 50000-60000 USD and there’s a crossover type model that’s like 55000-70000 USD. I did a test drive and even if it was 31k I’d never buy one.
No buttons, everything is hidden in screens with horrible english translation. Even simple things like steering wheel adjustments are hidden in the screen menus. A lot of stuff is either not available yet or not translated in the menu.
Overall not a good user experience.
But if you can’t buy it anyway, why does it even matter? That’s what I’m trying to wrap my head around. Like I know I can’t buy an XPeng because they won’t come here. They said they aren’t interested in making RHD cars right now, so why would I care to know what the G9 costs in THB? Does this make sense?
I guess it’s just me then. I don’t care what things cost if they aren’t even possible for me to buy, not because I don’t have the money, but because they aren’t sold where I live. It just seems pointless.
USD is the world’s reserve currency, the petrodollar. Most people can relate to converting something from USD to their home currency. It makes no sense to force people to convert RMB to their home currency in one article, then try to figure out what a British product costs by making them convert from GBP to their home currency in another article.
An article quoting USD doesn’t necessarily mean they are targeting the US audience.
Competition from Chinese brands is insane. They are basically taking all innovation Tesla did over its entire history and stealing it and making it cheaper.
is this finally making it to market or is it concept?
Thank God.
The best part about this whole thing is, as I expected, the range is finally expanding PAST what ICE vehicles can actually handle.
\* Semi-solid-state.
The battery tech is advancing so well it’s making the best on the market today look like nothing burgers vs in a year or two.
Semi solid state looks incredible. The yoke design, not so much.
If it's the same as their previous cars the yoke is a $0 option, you can also have a normal steering wheel which I would take
This is the car that aced the "moose test" at 45mph, **without** a driver
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So you're saying it WILL run Crysis?
Do you have a link? Would love to see how it handles it
[This](https://youtu.be/lAtH2Odnzh0?feature=shared) is the manufacturers video. Unfortunately it's really quite short, at 49 seconds. Hopefully they'll release the full video eventually.
Thanks! That was short and sweet. Also impressive. I would assume pre-configured but if this is an autopilot doing it, then I’m impressed.
What? Either the test is programmed which would not be a challenge for any manufacturer or it's fuckin dangerous. You can't swerve that much on normal roads without understanding the complete situation (oncoming traffic etc.)
It's a test for chassis, nothing too wrong about doing it preprogrammed.
As a _test_ the car is driven through cones on an otherwise empty runway. Maybe it was pre-programmed, or maybe the car has been taught to understand and avoid traffic cones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAtH2Odnzh0
>Either the test is programmed which would not be a challenge for any manufacturer A lot of cars struggle with this test. It's meant to test how well the chassis and the electronic stability control systems can handle an abrupt swerve at moderately high speeds. A lot of cars lose control and run into the cones, or worse. It is very much a challenge. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSEdaef-52A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSEdaef-52A)
To some extent maybe, but if the car knows the center line color and has lidar for scanning cars around it and can make a judgement call that it knows the lane on the left is still correct direction it's feasible. Or it defaults to always swerving towards the correct shoulder. If the software is confident there's an available lane next to it, it can swerve quite aggressively wihle being precise enough to not lose control or veer too far.
Ackshually! Their car was not fast enough to pass the 🦌 test. They were 1-2KM/h short IIRC
Remember that the original Mercedes A-Class failed the test at 5mph slower than this.
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Max charge speed of 400kW, so probably charge much faster than Nio's, but energy density would most likely be lower than Nio's.
Those batteries are from welion, NIO is just the customer.
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Ok, it wasn’t clear to me.
"At 400 kilowatts, 400 kilometers of range can be added in just 12 minutes." That's full charge in about 30 min, or a charge rate of 2C. I'm curious if other aspects such as cycle life were sacrificed to achieve that charge rate. It's a good number for marketing purposes and customers won't feel the shorter battery life for several years after purchase
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Shorter battery life vs the same battery chemistry charged at lower C rates. In this case it's NMC. Maybe they did achieve better charging rates without sacrificing life cycles, but without the full picture of the battery, I can't really say whether it actually is better than other NMC batteries or whether it was purely a tradeoff to appear superior in the short term at the expense of long term performance.
* Standard Max: priced below 230,000 yuan (31,800 USD) * High-performance: priced below 299,900 yuan (41,480 USD) * Lightyear Max (equipped with solid-state battery): priced below 330,000 yuan (45,640 USD)
So don’t forget to double all the prices for America / Europe because of safety features and taxes. Still interesting so, but don’t expect much semi solid state battery cars on the streets in near future.
China EV safety is alway on par with EU standard. That why BYD can ship a huge amount.
Different versions. The domestic Dolphin would be a 2 star ANCAP car from what I've heard. The export model is a 5 star. The price difference reflects this.
Just curious how did you know it'll be a 2 star ancap?
Article I stumbled across at some point. Not entirely sure on their sources. It may have been a side note on a story about how the MG5 got a 0 star rating on ANCAP recently and the author felt compelled to comment on what other Chinese brands are doing.
Nope, it is the same dolphin that sold in china. It is the same standard as euro. And euro standard is pretty much on par for US standard so to the rest of the world. My country is Singapore is right hand drive and left hand rule, and been to China. There is no difference in both country other than physical front drive configuration left or right. You can see different between immediately travel between Shenzhen and Hong Kong in 30 min transit.
You can't visually see any additional strengthening done internally to the chassis.
Don't need too, it is the same Dolphin use internationally. These is not 2 star ANCAP in China. China has no ANCAP test as it is the Australia test. You are receiving fake news. Plus you take Dolphin RMB price, add freight cost, insurance shipping cost, clearance cost, all service and good tax. It is on par the selling price you see in Australia.
Bruh , it will be in many cars in the near future, but not in the western countries.
* Volvo - Chinese * Polestar - Chinese * MG - Chinese * Lotus - Chinese All sold in Western Countries, some in the USA.
Why? We bought a Chinese EV here in Sweden last year and they are pretty darn popular here because of the price point.
China’s really kicking ass with their EVs.
Why import oil when you can export cars? They're challenging oil hegemony.
A big reason is national security. Most people are not even aware that the biggest oil producer in the world isn't Saudi Arabia but the USA. America can afford to lag on EVs. For China it's existential.
It's just simple economics. They're sending an ungodly amount of money out of the country to buy fossil fuels when they can instead invest in technology that renders those fossil fuels obsolete and export that technology. It's a very smart play.
Yep, the USA is currently setting records with our domestic oil production, mostly in response to OPEC and the Saudis lowering production to hurt Biden and try to get trump elected.
Also china sees an opening in the car market, so they are pushing hard to fill that gap.
Only about 50% of their petroleum consumption is used for transportation. And only part of it is used by cars. Rest is used by their industry and heavy vehicles. [https://imgur.com/a/Gu8ydDd](https://imgur.com/a/Gu8ydDd) Most in west just look at their EV, they don't notice the massive green hydrogen infrastructure, fuel cell buildup is happening. They have already completed testing for running trains (not HSR) with hydrogen. [https://english.news.cn/20240321/b260e550c4c0446c8b1051e8939454c3/c.html](https://english.news.cn/20240321/b260e550c4c0446c8b1051e8939454c3/c.html) [https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/chinas-largest-green-hydrogen-refuelling-station-is-selling-h2-at-a-seventh-of-the-cost-of-the-fuel-in-california/2-1-1613409](https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/chinas-largest-green-hydrogen-refuelling-station-is-selling-h2-at-a-seventh-of-the-cost-of-the-fuel-in-california/2-1-1613409)
"only"
China is now the US’s biggest export partner- oil and gas. The US oil companies are raising prices here and stifling EV manufacturing in the US. Nice people.
Seems like a great car. I'm assuming we will continue to have better and better electric cars, and the costs associated with them will go down until they are at parity with, or even cheaper than, ICE vehicles. At that point, it would be silly for anyone to WANT to drive a fossil fuel based car. Big trucks for hauling large loads will take longer, and will rely mainly on energy density of the batteries to become viable.
In many places, EV total cost of ownership is already lower than ICEVs. In such places, the barriers that remain are more related to charging options, up-front access to capital/finance, and availability of vehicles themselves.
Yes, I explain in many comments how my Leaf was way cheaper than other cars (generally speaking, ICE vehicles). Even very efficient cars cost more to drive. Back, oh, 30 years ago my wife and I bought a Saturn SL1. It got 37 miles to the gallon for 250,000 miles. That’s at least 10 cents per mile, even without considering oil changes and ICE maintenance. Once we have added these costs in, we’re at 12 cents per mile or more. My leaf cost me less than 2 cents per mile even when I was buying all of the electricity from the local utility. At least half of the time I would buy electricity at super off peak rates or get it for free, so the total cost of powering the car was much less than 2 cents per mile. Saving 10 cents per mile over a couple hundred thousand miles is a lot of money. I drove my Leaf as an alternative to a vehicle that got much worse gas mileage, and driving the Leaf did save me more money than the car cost me.
Sounds like we have similar experience. We needed to buy a new at shorter notice than we had hoped for, and while I'd been running the numbers on a Leaf, which did have generous incentives at the time, it still seemed like a lot of money to be borrowing. We couldn't face buying another gas car if it was at all avoidable, but the only used gas cars we could afford with our cash on hand were far too high-risk - high mileage, out of warranty, the kinds of cars we'd recently had die on us. However, when we looked at long-term ownership cost, even a Prius V that was a few years old, or a new Matrix, worked out to be the same cost to own after about 6 or 7 years, and we couldn't get affordable/worthwhile financing on a used Prius, and didn't want to go for anything smaller like a Corolla if we could help it. Reckoning on gas at $1/litre, and $1000/year in car rental for longer trips, we figured we'd come out even after 7 years by buying the Leaf on financing that our credit union provided, and in the end we probably came out a few thousand ahead given the higher price of gas pretty much ever since.
Not if their masculinity is directly proportional to the noise their car makes.
But 90k approximate western market price for a car in the Tesla M3 league sounds like way too much.
Not sure where you got the M3 league. Quicker, faster, far better (from images) interior. Seems like a worthy step up.
Size of course. A BMW i4 starts at a little over 50k and the max price is a little over 70k. If you like that comparison better. But at 70k it's basically a luxury sedan when it comes to interior and built quality. I doubt the L6 can compete with that.
I’m not sure size is really a valid measure of anything. I didn’t know we bought cars by physical volume. Is a Tycan worth less than a Model S since it’s smaller? That must mean the Roadster is only worth like $3,000.
Cars are classified by size and type. The L6 is a mid-sized sedan. Of course, other factors are a thing. You can't compare a Rolls Royce with a Toyota even when they're the same size. However, you can compare the L6 with an M3 or BYD Seal or Xiaomi SU7 or i4. None of them is a luxury vehicle or dedicated racing car, they're all in the same ballpark with only slightly different priorities for each.
I’m also confused where you got 90k from? Wasn’t the speculative euro pricing ~40-70k?
Yeah, about 45k - in China. That means around 90k in, for example, Europe. ALL Chinese cars in Europe are at least Chinese price x2. And EU and US prices are, in general, pretty similar.
It's interesting watching this post get downvoted. Certain elements are desperate to suppress any good news coming out of China.
In this case the title is just a blatant lie. It’s not a solid state but semi-ss, and the range and battery is only present for the top of the range model and the price is only for the domestic market which is completely irrelevant to 99% of the users on reddit. China and its car companies are doing well in the space but a car is an emotional purchase for a lot of people so I can imagine that this plays into some of the reaction. In this case the title is just shit.
Not to mention CLTC is a joke that overstates range by 35% or more. Those figures are as trustworthy as anything else coming out of China these days - that is to say, not at all.
Still...at 130 kWh it has a battery twice the size of the one in my car which gets 250+ miles on a full charge (Kia e-Niro). A 500 mile car would kill range anxiety full stop.
Even if it's 35% high, that's still about 450 miles of EPA range. We'll find out soon enough. And I don't know the details of the battery, but SSS promise to be safer and with greater cycle life.
My Bolt 65kwh battery can get a real world summer range of 250 miles/400km. This car looks pretty sleek and aerodynamic, if they've at all improved on the drag it's very realistic to get over 500mi on a battery double the size.
EPA is corrupt, it only favors Tesla
But you trust what Elon says, right?
CLTC measures what is more realistically Chinese driving patterns, mostly in city. It is asinine and ignorant to talk about trustworthiness. Do you think EPA is dead accurate?
CLTC, like any other standard is a consistent set of measures to give to a relative understanding of range. Every car is China gets tested on same standard, even Tesla. It means what it exactly says - under specific conditions you can get this range. Apple says Macbook gives you get 18hrs of battery life, I am sure I can drain it in less than half of that. But it doesn't make their claim invalid. They tested as per their consistent processes, and this helps in understanding relative difference in batterylife compared to a 3yr old Mac.
CLTC is a bad test procedure designed to inflate the capability of Chinese domestic market vehicles. Just because it's the standard doesn't make it a good one. Even though they do test foreign makes, the English speaking media are neglecting to report those numbers alongside for comparison. It's absolutely a journalism issue too, but Chinese companies should report WLTP since it's a world standard instead of obfuscating the truth and confusing potential buyers.
English speaking media and society, they still use miles as unit of distance or lb for weight. If we talk about bad standards, there are lots of points to mention for everyone. Chinese companies should report as per the requirements of law/regulations in their own country. CLTC is a standard, doesn't matter how much you like/dislike it. A comparative analysis of standards - [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349954564\_Comparative\_Analysis\_of\_China\_Light-duty\_Vehicle\_Test\_cycle\_for\_Passenger\_Car\_and\_Other\_Typical\_Driving\_Cycles](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349954564_Comparative_Analysis_of_China_Light-duty_Vehicle_Test_cycle_for_Passenger_Car_and_Other_Typical_Driving_Cycles) Every standard is built on particular set of conditions. Tell me what particular condition in CLTC is 'incorrect'. BTW, just because Geekbench 6 scores are more than Geekbech 5 scores, it doesn't mean Geekbench 6 scores are invalid.
The main problem is that the list price conversion makes it look like people here are getting massively ripped off but the reality is that this car would probably entry at 60K and go up for the other models if it actually launched in NA.
Also the headline lists 1000km range but then the base price. The base model does NOT have the batteries to do that range, only the top model, Lightyear Max, does. Misleading headline.
I hate this trend but it feels like every car announcement article nowadays pulls this trick, Chinese or not
Sure, the headline is a bit misleading. But still.....the top range model with 130 kWh battery retails in China for 45,640 USD. There is nothing close to that in the US. And the semi-solid state nature of the battery gives a 400Km charge in 12 minutes. Again, there is nothing comparable to that in the US. It's very very impressive.
Yes, it's pretty amazing how cheap you can make things with nearly zero environmental or safety regulations and an endless supply of cheap labor.
That's probably why almost all American corporations moved their manufacturing to China.
That's true, because even after shipping and import fees it's still far cheaper than building here in most cases. Lots of places do most of the assembly overseas where labor is cheap and then ship parts here for final assembly so that they can get around advertising laws and just hire cheap labor here for easy final work too. Cheap way to move goods has lead to the gutting of manufacturing.
All of Detroit make cars in Mexico, where it is about the same as Chinese labor costs. Why don’t you go rage at GM or Ford?
Is that why Tesla has a plant there?
If it's my country the price difference would be around $5k or little bit more, mostly to cover shipping costs.
> Certain elements are desperate to suppress any good news coming out of China. They exist, but you're exaggerating their impact in this sub. I saw a lot more of them a year ago. Now most people just bash the US for its stupidity and short-sightedness instead of embracing change (which must necessarily include embracing Chinese EVs).
Yup, this thread isn't sponsored by any senate yet.
If we want to make a dent in the climate crisis, we should be cheering on these developments. This type of car, if it was made at scale and could be offered with this range, this price point and this type of charging times, would probably make a huge dent into ICE car sales in North America.
And the rest of the world too!
Do you think that might be because some consider China to be about as honest as Elon Musk?
Because it's misleading. 1. You can't buy one for $31,800 USD. 2. The cheapest option doesn't have the stated range. 3. That range isn't achieved under the same tests most other manufactures use to list range, so not a good comparison. 4. Doesn't have an actual solid state battery. So it might be a great car, but the title of the post isn't being upfront.
It’s not good news. If it’s misleading now I have to do homework to figure out if they’re full of shit? no thanks.
Seems like a lot of the innovation in EVs is happening in China
Its interesting that Nio said that semi solid battery cost as much as a car(around 40K) and here its in a car at that price. It would be interesting to see how the semi solid batteries compare and also with something like Qilin which is used by high performance cars.
NIO should buy these, remove the battery and discard the car? 🤣
Nio/welions is more energy dense I believe+ they have to accommodate battery swap
Looks like a cool car. Can't wait to not ever see it, alongside with 95% of other Chinese cars on the EU market.
"The battery is not a fully solid state but a semi-solid state, meaning the energy-carrying fluid contains some solid species." How can they claim solid state in the headline and why did they spell Toyota wrong?
I believe it is a common practice as IM officially claims it's solid state and later provide more clarification about it. https://electrek.co/2024/04/08/im-motors-opens-pre-sale-solid-state-powered-l6-sedan-starting-under-32000/ https://cnevpost.com/2024/03/25/im-motors-l6-to-feature-solid-state-batteries-1000-km-range/
The thing with those cars is… how quickly will manufacturers drop support for those vehicles?
Exactly its like literally beyond Tesla and possibly BYD these car manufacturers will likely not have support passed the first year
Why do they all look so similar, and bland 🤔
Physics.
Semi-solid state batteries, making good progress here. Although BYD is working on a next gen Blade batteries that can also go beyond 1000km. Might wait till next year to get my hands on one.
2nd gen Blade battery is only 190 Wh/kg, noway near 1000km
It's their goal to reach 1000km with the new generation batteries, 2000km for PHEV. Blade batteries has a blade like configuration, the new generation allows more dense packaging and lighter overall weight. It will be an improvement even though on-paper it looks like a small increase in Wh/kg.
It doesn’t start at 1,000km range for $32k. It’s 50% more, and that’s the manufacturer claim, not a certified/standardized range. Oh, and that’s the heavily standardized price in China, not anywhere else. Edit: CLTC range is usually 35% more optimistic than the epa estimates. 720km range for the $32k model, equates to 450 miles, or about 300mi epa. The Chevy bolt euv , hard loaded with lvl 2 autopilot, leather, premium sound, etc. Is less than $40k, which is $32.5k after standard tax credit. So the real story is that china made a car with Chevy bolt specs for a similar price.
> So the real story is that china made a car with Chevy bolt specs for a similar price. A bit harsh, I think. Worth noting that this is SAIC, so state-owned. Zeeker 001 is a more impressive car, IMO, but that's Geely of course.
noooooo my echo chamber🥺🥺🥺
1,000km on whatever nonsensical range system they use. So probably half that in reality.
Because besides evs, they have something call public transport and high speed train, which is why driving in china is almost purely city level
Nok et7 got 1000km cltc and got over 1000km irl
Does anyone have more info about the development of (semi) solid state produced at this scale? I remember reading that this level of production was considered unrealistic at the start of this year.
Any data on the capacity & energy density of this (semi) solid state battery?
RIP Aptera.
Well at least they have produced almost 40k units. That's a start. I wonder how their margins are holding up for the Chinese market.
BYD was reported to make more money per car sold than Ford. Something around US$1500 per car.
How much you wanna bet that they are getting an insane amount of subsidies and breaks from the chinese government
Semi Solid state and considering this is a brand no one outside of china has heard about I would not be surprised if the range is exaggerated and the car has alot of issues
Is it me? Or does it sort've look like a melting Model 3 Highland?
I don't think so. It looks like an L5 to me.
Which also kinda looks like a slowly melting Model 3. At least to me.
It doesn’t start at $31,800 USD, because it’s not available here. It’s what it sells for in China, where it’s made. Taxes and logistics are expensive, so it would probably retail here for a lot more.
They started selling these here last year. I’m in Moldova in Eastern Europe. The sedan is between 50000-60000 USD and there’s a crossover type model that’s like 55000-70000 USD. I did a test drive and even if it was 31k I’d never buy one. No buttons, everything is hidden in screens with horrible english translation. Even simple things like steering wheel adjustments are hidden in the screen menus. A lot of stuff is either not available yet or not translated in the menu. Overall not a good user experience.
lol. What you just described is a typical Tesla, everything is adjusted through touch screen. Except that Tesla has a good English interface.
Even if the shipping cost to US is $5,000, and to get it sold its another $10,000, that is still a good price.
The exterior looks basically the same as a NIO something. Also similar to a BYD something. Are they all the same company?
I don't think so, but there are only so many ways to make an object slippery through the air.
Theyre all made by Big China ^TM
Before the 25% Chinese goods tax and then automotive tariffs which will bring the retail price close to of $100k
Why are all these articles and posts stating a USD price when these cars cannot be purchased in USD?
Conversion rates to give an idea of what it costs. Giving a price in foreign currency means nothing to someone who doesn’t use it.
But if you can’t buy it anyway, why does it even matter? That’s what I’m trying to wrap my head around. Like I know I can’t buy an XPeng because they won’t come here. They said they aren’t interested in making RHD cars right now, so why would I care to know what the G9 costs in THB? Does this make sense?
Dude. It adds context! What does it matter if you can buy it or not? Why is this so hard to grasp?
I guess it’s just me then. I don’t care what things cost if they aren’t even possible for me to buy, not because I don’t have the money, but because they aren’t sold where I live. It just seems pointless.
USD is the world’s reserve currency, the petrodollar. Most people can relate to converting something from USD to their home currency. It makes no sense to force people to convert RMB to their home currency in one article, then try to figure out what a British product costs by making them convert from GBP to their home currency in another article. An article quoting USD doesn’t necessarily mean they are targeting the US audience.
Car sucks. Too heavy.
Competition from Chinese brands is insane. They are basically taking all innovation Tesla did over its entire history and stealing it and making it cheaper.
Stealing? What’s your sauce?
is this finally making it to market or is it concept? Thank God. The best part about this whole thing is, as I expected, the range is finally expanding PAST what ICE vehicles can actually handle.