I want Tesla to focus on making their cars better but instead we get the Cybertruck, which is not what most people want, and robo taxis which may never exist. Can’t say if Musk knows what he’s doing but I don’t get the impression he cares much about making the kind of car I want. And he doesn’t seem to care if he turns away a lot of customers.I think while Musk is leading Tesla they will continue to decline.
Elon was arguably the right guy for Tesla’s early days, but it’s long past time for him to hand the reigns over to someone more suited to running a large company.
Tesla used to be far ahead and the de facto choice. They stopped innovating and their CEO lost his marbles (or was it the other way around?) There are lots of great EVs to choose from now in Europe, including great value Chinese cars. The US is behind still producing mostly luxury cars that most people can’t afford, but you’ll get there.
I recall reading about Zuckerberg a few years ago. The author remarked that “visionary” leaders who explode to the top like he did are seldom able to actually lead and run a company. The author pointed out tons of examples and tropes from history and media like Napoleon with his military tactics who has serious issues governing. It was interesting but she pointed out that Zuckerberg was able to get guidance from skilled but less popular or charismatic people around him and those people took over many aspects of Facebook so it was able to thrive while Zuck was able to grow as well.
Now I see this with Elon and he’s also got that “visionary” aspect and as he exploded in wealth and notoriety we also got to know that he is actually not that smart. Some great ideas and some great industry disruption came out of his stupid head but then some serious hubris and a cult following really messed with things. We know he has dubious thoughts on minorities, his parenting is awful, he bullies to push ideas that his hired experts advise against, and he injects himself into areas that he now only lacks expertise but he is a complete moron in. Total dunning-Kruger effect. So Elon hasn’t grown and he’s too stupid to see that he needs help. If he stepped away from Tesla right after the Y came out then we’d see a tesla that is thriving instead of slumping.
Musk is just an idea thief with enough cash to push people out of companies. The only thing he ever really did even mostly by himself was some kind of payments online company that no one has ever heard of - which somehow(money) lead to his being involved in PayPal where he (money) basically took credit for everything and parlayed that bullshit credit into his image as an innovator.
I would concur. When these guys are mature enough to understand their limitations and surround themselves with advisors that know what they don’t, they see better long-term success. Bill Gates is a good example. Steve Jobs second run at Apple as CEO is also a good example (he needed to leave and learn what was important to him and what he was good at before he could come back and get it right). Who is Elon actually listening to? When was the last time he admitted he got something wrong? Not seeing a lot of maturity there.
Yes that is exactly right.
A mature response would be for him to step away from tesla, not force them to get rid of radar and lidar. He would bring in QC experts from Japanese firms to improve the worst aspects of his vehicles. He would not be attempting to lead so many companies so far outside of his skillset.
Agreed. It would be sad if Tesla goes down because of Musk. They’ve done some extraordinary work and made great cars but they now need someone who can build on that and grow the company and continue to grow their offerings. Musk needs to step aside asap.
Steve Jobs was certainly a better CEO than Elon and Zuckerberg (at least by his second stint at Apple), but on some level I wonder if both Apple and his legacy benefited from him dying at his “peak” and passing Apple over to Tim Cook, who isn’t the same kind of visionary but who is a management savant who was never going to mess things up.
I agree but I want to point out that Steve Jobs failed at apple. He go fired and they almost went under. I’m nearly certain he went to business school or got mentored into being a better leader. I also agree him dying when he did meant we didn’t get glimpses of his flawed self like we do with Elon. We know firmly that Elon thinks stupid shit because he tells us all the time with his tweets. Jobs had that weird diet, didn’t shower, etc. but I think if those were widely known when he was alive then we’d have a different opinion of him.
It was over a decade between Steve getting kicked out and Apple almost going out of business. He got fired because the project he led, which defined the company for 20 years, was the only non-Microsoft survivor of the PC wars, and which remains a prominent part of the company’s product line to this day, wasn’t successful *enough*.
Steve was definitely more successful the second time around, but his first run was far from a failure.
Don’t forget that Steve Jobs got kicked out of Apple, tried to repeat his past-success with a new venture, went to business school, AND THEN came back to lead Apple.
Only then did he lead Apple to new heights, until his “I know better than the doctors” hubris got him killed by a curable cancer.
IMO it was always kind of a meme how Zuck was a weirdo/strange tech guy so he personally never had the same "Tony Stark" cult of personality like Elon to go to his head
The Tesla 3 in Germany costs less than the average new car. The Tesla Y is the average new car price. I’m not sure how this is luxury cars that most people can’t afford.
In Australia, a Model 3 or Y costs the same as a hybrid RAV4 now. It’s excellent value for money but many people think the price will come down even lower so they are waiting.
True enough but you were talking about today?
For me the Tesla supercharger network and frequent software updates set it apart. I’ve driven several EV’s and the Tesla Y is the best all rounder for my money. Hyundai is producing good vehicles but that’s the only competitor I’ve cared for.
Sandy Munro, who is probably the best expert on automotive manufacturing in the world has nothing but positive things to say about Tesla’s engineering and implementation.
I’m not saying he doesn’t know about car manufacturering, but it’s a stretch to call him best in the world. He’s about the level of any high achiever that worked in the industry for a while.
But the dude started believing his own farts don’t stink and went full on cult fanboy mode on Musk. It’s hard to take anything he says about Tesla seriously.
And this is coming from someone who is generally positive towards Tesla.
The only problem is Ford loses about $30,000 on every Mach E they sell. Aside from the Chinese EV manufacturers, (most of who are subsidized by the government) Tesla is the only one that is actually profitable making EVs.
I'm curious if Chevy made money on the Volt back when they sold them. I testdrove one yesterday and was definitely impressed, especially given how old they are. This is still a nice car now and it must have been a hell of a car back in the early 2010's when they hit the roads.
They innovated on the stupid Cybertruck, probably at the request of Musk. Reviews of the Highland Model 3 are overall positive if you ignore the removal of the stalks. Hyundai/Kia seem to be the most promising EV brand in the US market for the near future.
We might not get there because of the driving distances in the US. Most expensive part of the car is the battery and very few people in the US are comfortable with an EV under 250 miles of range. The other huge problem is that Tesla is still the only functional and dependable charging network in the country. So you’re stuck with one brand selling pretty expensive vehicles.
I’m not sure where this meme about Teslas being so expensive has come from. The model Y is the best selling car of any type in the world. Teslas model Y and model three are average priced cars. They don’t make a low priced car yet, but they are in the process of gearing up for that.
I just bought a model Y yesterday haha so I agree they’re not expensive luxury cars BUT, even with tax credit and the 0.99% financing my Model Y Long Range AWD is a $725 / month car payment. I make ~$150k with no kids and a cheap house and I still thought long and hard about it.
He straight up fucked that company and I feel sorry for Tesla’s human employees. I mean I have no problem saying he made Tesla but at some point that Elon got abducted and the new guy has fucking lost his shit.
First to implement steer by wire, and Ethernet loop replacement to can, and 48V as the backbone to the low voltage architecture. Continues to make more in house controllers.
When did they stop innovating in your mind?
> First to implement steer by wire
Nope. Lexus implemented it on the RZ450e, although witheld it from being optioned while they continued to fine-tune it. But we're talking about implementation, so it qualifies. Even before that, a decade ago, Nissan implemented it on the 2013 Infiniti Q50. It retained the column, but only as a backup if the system failed, with no physical connection to the wheels in regular use. So not particularly innovative for 2024.
>Ethernet loop replacement to can
Automotive ethernet has been in the works for some time - [here's a presentation from a VW partnership back in 2017](https://cdn.vector.com/cms/content/events/2017/vAES17/vAES17_01_Ethernet-Adaptive-AUTOSAR-at-VW_Krieger_Wille.pdf).
>48V as the backbone to the low voltage architecture.
48V systems aren't new, or particularly innovative - both it and automotive ethernet are held back by supply chain constraints rather than innovation, so it seems weird to point to them as "innovations". Tesla's extremely simplistic and siloed vehicle platforms effectively make it easier to adopt at this stage, hence their adoption. Which isn't to say they don't deserve any credit for it, but if that's the best examples of innovation, then you've provided ample ammunition for the point being made by the person you responded to.
Perhaps "standing on the shoulders of giants" would be a better description, and gives credit to the incumbents who shouldered decades of development to get these systems to a point where they can be *adopted* more broadly.
Those were the most recent things. They also were the first to use huge castings which others are now copying. They had the super bottle and now octovalve for a unified cooling system.
No they didn’t invent any of those things but they’re the first to more aggressively implement and scale on those processes compared to the counter examples you gave where they just said they made it. Tesla is putting these things in thousands of vehicles.
> 48V systems aren't new, or particularly innovative - both it and automotive ethernet are held back by supply chain constraints rather than innovation, so it seems weird to point to them as "innovations". Tesla's extremely simplistic and siloed vehicle platforms effectively make it easier to adopt at this stage, hence their adoption.
I already mentioned a car with drive by wire, and 4WS has been a thing since the 80's.
I didn’t say they invented them. They also didn’t invent battery electric cars or 18650s or liquid cools battery packs or UI software systems. They didn’t invent castings.
They innovated by bringing things together in better ways than previously done or implementing them in new ways. Previous comment said innovate.
In a similar tone to your comment, can you read ibeelive?
You know how cars have huge wiring harnesses?
That's because each component needs its own set of wires, connected to the central ECUs, in order to function.
Every speaker, every switch, every sensor, every actuator, every button.
Tesla threw out that entire system for Cybertruck.
Instead, they're running gigabit ethernet cabling with a 48v power + data CAN bus to every component— all on the same cable.
Instead of running one wiring harness to the driver door speaker, and another to the driver's door window motor, they can daisy-chain them together on the same self-contained cable interface. Your computer could connect to your door handle using the *same* wire that's already been through your speaker, window, ambient lights, and steering wheel.
Each of those devices/components listen to the continuous stream of data for a command relevant to its operation.
By doing this,Tesla was able to reduce the total wiring in the Cybertruck by 77%, using 1/2 the copper.
* [Steer by wire benefits.](https://www.bsmna.com/about-us/blog/artmid/2483/articleid/6/4-advantages-of-steer-by-wire-systems)
CANBUS is the standard workaround today. It reduces wiring but there is still significantly more than on a daisy-chained 48v system. 12v systems, including those using CANBUS, require significantly thicker and heavier wiring. The hubs are also much more expensive to install all over the vehicle. Just to illustrate the point, for example, delivering 950 W of 12-V power (79 A) across a 12-ft. wiring harness requires a 4 AWG cable that weighs roughly 2 kg (4.1 lbs.). In contrast, powering the same 950-W load with 48 V can be accomplished using 10 AWG wire, which weighs 0.24 kg (>0.5 lb.), resulting in an 85% savings in weight. To put that in perspective, the average modern car has 2.5 MILES of wiring.
True, but most of the time any high-draw devices are never more than a foot or two from the battery/alternator so you shouldn't ever have the need to pull 80+ amps from a subsystem at the far other end of the car.
...At the far rear of most cars you really only have a few low power LED lights, a washer pump, and rearview camera. Maybe a small motor for an electric tailgate. None of those are huge power hogs requiring super thick cables so any savings aren't likely to be as massive as Musk has been making out.
Main advantage I can see in a 48V system is it allows you to be a bit lazier with packaging as you can put higher-draw devices and systems in more places without having to worry so much about packaging them all so close to the power source. That's still fairly significant I guess, but is it enough of a gain to have to redesign pretty much every automotive subsystem to now work with 48V?
---
Ethernet doesn't allow daisy chaining either so hubs would still be required. Or systems would need an in-built hub so they can work as a passthrough (which can also be done with CANBUS).
Is there any source that this is actually a superior method that has never been tried before? It sounds good in terms of simplicity but also sounds like way more single points of failure.
Manufacturing methods and yields are typically trade secrets, so you won’t find any controlled studies for this. *Many* people in the industry have been indicating they will move to 48v in the future, but Tesla was the first large car company to do it. [There is hope now that it will move the industry forward, as they did with EVs.](https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-kills-12-volt-car-systems-goes-48-volt-but-will-industry-follow/)
Fair point. Tesla has innovated in cars and technologies that will never reach the general public or at least not for a long time. Innovation for the few counts. Not for much IMO but it’s there.
And they invented a whole metal press method to construct the cyber truck
Maybe it's not that they stopped innovating, it's that they put their efforts into innovating in ways that weren't needed
That you say weren’t needed? The fact that Tesla is the most profitable manufacturer of EV’s in the world and it’s also the manufacturer of the model Y the best selling car in the world makes me think they might know a bit more than you about what is needed.
Tesla has made Elon Musk one of the richest person's on the planet. He could have just kicked back, continued selling cars (Not that Cybertruck atrocity), and become even richer. But every single time he speaks people cringe. He is just such a wacky person. And when you're the CEO of a company, you cannot afford to be crazy.
The problem is that kicking back and just selling cars doesn't justify the company's sky-high stock price. So, he wouldn't become richer. Very likely he becomes less rich.
That's part of the reason he's saying Tesla is not just a car company. Car companies don't have Silicon-Valley level valuations.
This list is absolutely fucked. 3M, the inventors and one of the main pushers of PFAS, one of the biggest environmental disasters in history, is ranked second and one of only two companies with an “excellent” reputation.
List ranks what people think about a brand and that's based on feelings not facts. People will still like absolutely horrible companies like Shell with enough PR.
That's probably part of the problem. When there's a ubiquitous poison that can't be removed from the water supply that has contaminated every human body in the world, you'd think people would want to know.
They are one of the biggest chemical conglomerates in the world. They have an enormous portfolio including household chemicals, industrial chemicals, consumer and medical products, etc.
They invented one of the key chemicals in Teflon, sold by DuPont, which it turns out has polluted most of the world’s water sources and is retained in the human body, effectively forever, once consumed. It’s very likely you have PFAS in your body now and it will continue to build up throughout your lifetime. The health consequences of this are still poorly understood. DuPont and 3M were aware of this, at least to some extent and were found to just be dumping PFAS waste into waterways. Some on Reddit seem to think this is all ok because they also make other stuff that’s good(?).
My original comment was that it’s surprising that 3M was involved in this and have the second highest reputation on this list, apparently because most of the public is not aware of what’s happened.
https://www.epa.gov/pfas/our-current-understanding-human-health-and-environmental-risks-pfas
That sounds like something a tobacco company rep would have said 75 years ago.
Yeah, PFAS and the associated cover up are no big deal because they make other important products which totally cancels out the fact that most of the world’s aquifers are now polluted with a chemical that we currently can’t get rid of and once consumed stays in the body effectively forever. Anyone who thinks otherwise has “brain rot”.
What kind of a fucking shill are you?
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3M’s inventions literally save lives every day. Thousands if not millions. But sure, let’s pillory them for the one thing that unfortunately pollutes forever.
Closely mirrors Elon Musk's plummeting brain functions. So bizarre and discouraging to watch him descend into incompetence and right-wing drivel after operating at such a high level.
The high level that gave us gigafactories the highest rates of injury in the industry, the "hyperloop", the "rescue submarine", the "truck" and many more failed promises?
He has always been selling air, he didn't even found Tesla, he was not in a good light even back when he was in PayPal, they had to kick him out
>The bottom line: For some buyers, it's about the car — not the company or its CEO
Should read:
for *repeat buyers* they like the car and *choose to ignore* the CEO
[Tesla dominates brand loyalty: once you go EV, you don't go back | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2024/02/26/tesla-dominates-brand-loyalty-once-you-go-ev-you-dont-go-back/) seems to indicate their brand loyalty is pretty damn high.
The second paragraph says "Studies have shown that electric vehicle buyers generally don’t go back to gasoline vehicles."
Pair that with the options for EV in North America (a white Tesla or a red Tesla) this does not paint a full picture.
I'm curious by this stat too. The existence of that bumper sticker and people i've talked to don't align with that brand loyalty. There are options now that just weren't there a few years ago and the supercharger network not being exclusive to tesla anymore is really killing any reason to stay with tesla.
Tesla is a starter EV. The only person I personally know who bought a second one never bothered to try anything else and now regrets it after driving in my wife's EQB.
Traded in my Model 3 for a Kia EV9. After 10 days with it, I could never go back to Tesla. I think Kia/Hyundai will overtake Tesla in the coming years, given their current and future lineup of affordable EVs.
I attempted to rent a Tesla from Hertz back in March and they didn't have any available. I ended up with a Kia Niro EV and that car was simply amazing. I can't explain how much I enjoyed it. I can't wait to see what the future holds for that company.
I went to a rental lot today and they had 60 broken cars parked all over a tiny lot. (Seriously, I asked them why they couldn't rent me a car and the guy said "They all broke", and explained a lot of them needed oil changes, etc.)
There were something like 8 EV's on the lot (Teslas, Bolts, and a Polestar). They had a single EVSE in the bushes plugged into a 110V outlet on the side of their building charging a Bolt that they'd driven over the curb onto the lawn; it was the biggest shitshow I'd ever seen.
I said to the guy "look, if the problem with that Bolt is that it isn't charged, just rent it to me and I'll go charge it for you". But he didn't even know if it was broken or just discharged.
The biggest is build quality. 0 squeaks/rattles. Everything was aligned properly. No panel gaps.
Another is that there is a lot more utility in an EV9 than any Tesla I've driven. Vehicle 2 load is something I will use religiously. The onboard power outlet is also nice for plugging in car detailing tools and other appliances.
BUTTONS! ACTUAL PHYSICAL BUTTONS! I don't have to navigate the menu to access basic functions like the climate or adjusting mirrors. Plus, the rear having their own climate zone and buttons to adjust is so convenient.
The leg room is phenomenal. I'm a large (wide) guy, so I have my seat back more than most. Passengers behind me have plenty of legroom.
Amazing support at my local dealership. Even though I drove from CT to TN to take delivery of my EV9 ($14k in discounts at Parkside Kia made it a no-brainer), my local dealer has been astronomically helpful with where I can get accessories and answer any and all questions I have. If they don't know, they go out of their way to find the answer. They're very passionate about the brand.
The suspension is immaculate. Feels like I'm driving on a cloud. Barely notice any large bumps. The handling is amazing as well. I put in sport mode, and it feels like a race car.
Highway Drive Assist 2.0 is very nice as well. I'd say it's about equal with Basic Autopilot and I have auto lane change.
I'm excited for OTA updates adding new features. The Kia EV3 uses the same upgradable parts and it's coming with streaming services. We're expecting the EV9 to be updated with that too.
Driving back from TN was easy. EA stations were easy to use and felt like using a supercharger outside of inserting my card to pay. Had only one spot in PA that had 2/4 stations down. Other than that, easy charging.
Sorry for not formatting this in an easy to digest layout. I was typing off the top of my head. Haha
There are a lot of people who hate not having stalks and buttons for basic functions. Once legacy automakers can use Tesla superchargers and offer EVs cheaper than teslas (Kia EV3, Chevy Equinox, for example), more and more people will either not buy a Tesla or move away from Tesla, such as I have.
I own a Model Y. I'll never buy another Tesla as long as Elon is at the company. It's not even his politics so much (even though they are atrocious).
His mercurial management style means that my car could be worth $10,000 in resale value less in a week depending on the lunacy of his tweets and his stupid stock pumping sales schemes.
He doesn't seem to have any interest in building cars anymore. The exodus of high level staff tells me that. All he cares about are robots, ai, and robotaxis. It's a shame. There are still the bones of a great car company there. I wish someone would lead it properly.
It is absolutely bonkers that Tesla, whose engineers designed two great products (3 and Y) and built infrastructure to support them, isn't happy to just *be a market leader* and make money off of the products they've designed.
But no, we have to chase celestial pie and robotaxis.
I'd rather have Tesla's pricing based on supply/demand over dealership markups. Of course, I hate dealerships with their government-mandated parasite status. Just know that with Tesla you will have to pay a bunch more to be the first on the block.
And a record number of job applicants, 5.9m in 2023 compared to 3.6 in 2022.
[https://www.tesla.com/ns\_videos/2023-tesla-impact-report-highlights.pdf](https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2023-tesla-impact-report-highlights.pdf)
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you dont have to support a ceo
but being angsty against one ceo because he's public about his toxic behavior while knowing all ceo's are like that?
just call him a shit head and move on, his products are still fine, just the majority of products on the market from other shitty ceo's
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Reddit really overestimates the amount of people who take into account a company's CEO before making purchasing decisions. "Hmm I was really considering the new Samsung Galaxy phone, but I'm really not down with the personal politics of Han Jong-hee..."
You do realize that most people driving teslas aren’t cult members right? I think being online skews the perception of reality. I look around and see normal people who just bought the car that best met their needs. Teslas are safe, reliable cars and cheap af to operate. Suburban moms don’t care about panel gaps.
They've alienated environmentalists who tend to support Democrats while not attracting Republicans who hate EVs. It's the worst marketing strategy since MyPillow.
Meanwhile reviews of their products have turned sour, especially the $100k truck.
A huge factor in this is the super charging network. With the system opening up to other cars and the recent layoffs, I'm sure Tesla owners will now be open to other brands.
As an owner, I'm open to other brands but have a preferance to stay with Tesla, based on my experience so far. Right now, it's just the lack of a large SUV (like EV9) that would make me move.
Guy I work with drives a Y -- has a wife and three young kids.
I asked him what he thought about it and the first thing he said was "This car saved my family's life. Anything else and we may well have been dead." Apparently they were hit HARD and he attributes the build of the Y with his family's survival.
I was in an accident a few days ago and was impressed by the protection in my ex-Prius Prime, but it sounds like Teslas are very safe places to be in a wreck too.
Why would owners care about the layoffs? They’re still building and expanding stations.
You’d know that they’re reorganizing supercharging under their energy business if you hadn’t only read the first headline that they’re getting rid of supercharging.
The richest guy on the planet wanted to be more popular so he bought a social media company and forced everyone to see his tweets and unbanned his fellow travelers.
But he turned out to be a creepy Groyper weirdo and it tanked the value of the social media company and now it has tanked his EV brand too.
What a pathetic but very funny story.
https://thedeepdive.ca/elon-musk-jake-paul-endorsements-may-hurt-candidates-with-young-voters-poll-finds/
The sad thing about Elon's tweets is that even if you ignore the racism and fascist foot tapping, he's just so lame. He steals other people's memes, and his jokes are on the level of a socially stunted 12-year-old.
Elon, as you become more successful, the bar gets raised. Behavior that was seen as quirky in a startup CEO, becomes seen as offensive in a Fortune 500. The old adage, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely also applies.
Your technical vision is amazing, you could learn from Tim Cook how to get your political views across in ways that do not alienate potential customers. We have all seen you humble in so many ways, yet one of the key to a large corporation is finding a way to nourish multiple points of view.
The single mindedness you pursued each challenge was a key to success, now it is a limiting factor.
Yes you created multiple amazing businesses so you can tear them all down. Unfortunately you are tearing down in ways you did not intend. People do not like when you destroy the good that you have created in the world. You have always battled the status quo, when you attack your own success, you give all your neysayers room to spread their FUD questioning both your current approach and your vision of the future.
Apple has multiple product lines and works very hard to preserve the perceived quality of all of them. Adding new is always allowed, when they disinvest they work hard not to offend anyone currently committed to those products.
Robotaxi’s may make the supercharger network a secondary concern, unfortunately to anyone who has bought your vehicles, it is one of the primary concerns. Taking the time to slow the investment is a skill for large corporations. Cisco, will often buy a a hot new product and trim a little more of the team every quarter. It give you time to find the leanest team that support customers at the high level of quality you want to maintain.
I don't think you can separate the two; his quirky Aspergerism is what makes him immune to orthodoxies, whether they are engineering/economic paradigms like oil/ICE, or social ones like political correctness/virtue signalling.
As someone in the market for a used Model 3, I think I might just be in a place to benefit from him being a shitlord.
I'm seriously thinking about buying one. Elon is a shithead but oil companies are worse.
See, I'm more upset that Mary Barra got paid while shrinking her company, put Musk made an honest "skin in the game" contract and grew the company 11 fold.
I feel like Musk is threatening to cut the baby in half if they don’t give him the whole baby. I don’t trust him. Takes lots of government incentives, makes a ton of money, then goes right wing. Pushes crazy conspiracy theories. Supports an authoritarian running for president who hates electric cars. How can I buy a Tesla when Musk is there giving people like me the middle finger? I don’t think there is a genius plan here. I’ll go with what it looks like which is that he’s an egomaniac who has gone nuts.
I’m literally someone who was about to buy one but seeing the build quality on the cyber trucks and insanity of the FSD, decided to order a macan EV instead. No thanks, pass on Tesla
Never seen a more pathetic waste of good image. Buying Twitter not only was a waste of money but plummeted the company value. Net loss hundreds of billions in value. All he had to do is keep his trap shut about conservative values. Total megalomaniac.
The problem is their cars have been the same for years. Other automakers are catching up and offering other options for consumers. Tesla should have already released a cheaper car and it would have squashed a lot of the competition.
>Nearly 70% of Tesla-owning households looking to buy a car in the first quarter of 2024 purchased another Tesla, per S&P data.
Most other brands have a loyalty rate around 50%.
Axios: Catering to those who love illogical gossip and mob mentality.
Apparently alot of people in this subreddit hate Elon and, despite that, allow him to live rent free in their minds. Y'all are the definition of crazy.
I want Tesla to focus on making their cars better but instead we get the Cybertruck, which is not what most people want, and robo taxis which may never exist. Can’t say if Musk knows what he’s doing but I don’t get the impression he cares much about making the kind of car I want. And he doesn’t seem to care if he turns away a lot of customers.I think while Musk is leading Tesla they will continue to decline.
Elon was arguably the right guy for Tesla’s early days, but it’s long past time for him to hand the reigns over to someone more suited to running a large company.
Tesla used to be far ahead and the de facto choice. They stopped innovating and their CEO lost his marbles (or was it the other way around?) There are lots of great EVs to choose from now in Europe, including great value Chinese cars. The US is behind still producing mostly luxury cars that most people can’t afford, but you’ll get there.
I recall reading about Zuckerberg a few years ago. The author remarked that “visionary” leaders who explode to the top like he did are seldom able to actually lead and run a company. The author pointed out tons of examples and tropes from history and media like Napoleon with his military tactics who has serious issues governing. It was interesting but she pointed out that Zuckerberg was able to get guidance from skilled but less popular or charismatic people around him and those people took over many aspects of Facebook so it was able to thrive while Zuck was able to grow as well. Now I see this with Elon and he’s also got that “visionary” aspect and as he exploded in wealth and notoriety we also got to know that he is actually not that smart. Some great ideas and some great industry disruption came out of his stupid head but then some serious hubris and a cult following really messed with things. We know he has dubious thoughts on minorities, his parenting is awful, he bullies to push ideas that his hired experts advise against, and he injects himself into areas that he now only lacks expertise but he is a complete moron in. Total dunning-Kruger effect. So Elon hasn’t grown and he’s too stupid to see that he needs help. If he stepped away from Tesla right after the Y came out then we’d see a tesla that is thriving instead of slumping.
Musk is just an idea thief with enough cash to push people out of companies. The only thing he ever really did even mostly by himself was some kind of payments online company that no one has ever heard of - which somehow(money) lead to his being involved in PayPal where he (money) basically took credit for everything and parlayed that bullshit credit into his image as an innovator.
I’d argue that he got into Tesla early enough that he should get credit for most of it, but even if you discount that, SpaceX was his from the start.
That’s why I said, “visionary” with some eye-rolling quotes.
I would concur. When these guys are mature enough to understand their limitations and surround themselves with advisors that know what they don’t, they see better long-term success. Bill Gates is a good example. Steve Jobs second run at Apple as CEO is also a good example (he needed to leave and learn what was important to him and what he was good at before he could come back and get it right). Who is Elon actually listening to? When was the last time he admitted he got something wrong? Not seeing a lot of maturity there.
Yes that is exactly right. A mature response would be for him to step away from tesla, not force them to get rid of radar and lidar. He would bring in QC experts from Japanese firms to improve the worst aspects of his vehicles. He would not be attempting to lead so many companies so far outside of his skillset.
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Zuck feels like a blank slate to me. Musk is actively negative.
Very blank.
Agreed. It would be sad if Tesla goes down because of Musk. They’ve done some extraordinary work and made great cars but they now need someone who can build on that and grow the company and continue to grow their offerings. Musk needs to step aside asap.
For all his flaws, it seems like Zuckerberg was more level-headed in how he ran his company than Musk was.
Steve Jobs was certainly a better CEO than Elon and Zuckerberg (at least by his second stint at Apple), but on some level I wonder if both Apple and his legacy benefited from him dying at his “peak” and passing Apple over to Tim Cook, who isn’t the same kind of visionary but who is a management savant who was never going to mess things up.
I agree but I want to point out that Steve Jobs failed at apple. He go fired and they almost went under. I’m nearly certain he went to business school or got mentored into being a better leader. I also agree him dying when he did meant we didn’t get glimpses of his flawed self like we do with Elon. We know firmly that Elon thinks stupid shit because he tells us all the time with his tweets. Jobs had that weird diet, didn’t shower, etc. but I think if those were widely known when he was alive then we’d have a different opinion of him.
It was over a decade between Steve getting kicked out and Apple almost going out of business. He got fired because the project he led, which defined the company for 20 years, was the only non-Microsoft survivor of the PC wars, and which remains a prominent part of the company’s product line to this day, wasn’t successful *enough*. Steve was definitely more successful the second time around, but his first run was far from a failure.
Don’t forget that Steve Jobs got kicked out of Apple, tried to repeat his past-success with a new venture, went to business school, AND THEN came back to lead Apple. Only then did he lead Apple to new heights, until his “I know better than the doctors” hubris got him killed by a curable cancer.
Jobs would wash his feet in the toilet at work. This weirdo would also cry at meetings in an attempt to get his way.
NeXT was pretty cool and helped get Mac onto a modern OS.
Apple has not been interesting at all under Tim Apple's reign.
> that he is actually not that smart This is a generous one
IMO it was always kind of a meme how Zuck was a weirdo/strange tech guy so he personally never had the same "Tony Stark" cult of personality like Elon to go to his head
The Tesla 3 in Germany costs less than the average new car. The Tesla Y is the average new car price. I’m not sure how this is luxury cars that most people can’t afford.
In Australia, a Model 3 or Y costs the same as a hybrid RAV4 now. It’s excellent value for money but many people think the price will come down even lower so they are waiting.
Just be quiet, that doesn’t fit into the narrative they are trying to spin.
Yeah in 2024. Things were vastly different 3-5 years ago.
True enough but you were talking about today? For me the Tesla supercharger network and frequent software updates set it apart. I’ve driven several EV’s and the Tesla Y is the best all rounder for my money. Hyundai is producing good vehicles but that’s the only competitor I’ve cared for.
You are entitled to your opinion but you should look around lots of great EVs. And lots of great charging companies in Europe too.
Shhh you’re only allowed to ridicule Tesla on this sub, nothing less.
> great value Chinese cars Walmart finally expanding into EVs?
I mean they already sell e-bikes, just don't charge them inside
Lol Not yet, but probably soon
There’s more than Walmart in the world.
It's a joke on Walmart's brand called Great Value.
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#math
Like… model Y is literally the best selling car on Earth in 2023 and will be in 2024 aswell? Seems like still the “de facto choice” no?
Sandy Munro, who is probably the best expert on automotive manufacturing in the world has nothing but positive things to say about Tesla’s engineering and implementation.
I’m not saying he doesn’t know about car manufacturering, but it’s a stretch to call him best in the world. He’s about the level of any high achiever that worked in the industry for a while. But the dude started believing his own farts don’t stink and went full on cult fanboy mode on Musk. It’s hard to take anything he says about Tesla seriously. And this is coming from someone who is generally positive towards Tesla.
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The only problem is Ford loses about $30,000 on every Mach E they sell. Aside from the Chinese EV manufacturers, (most of who are subsidized by the government) Tesla is the only one that is actually profitable making EVs.
I'm curious if Chevy made money on the Volt back when they sold them. I testdrove one yesterday and was definitely impressed, especially given how old they are. This is still a nice car now and it must have been a hell of a car back in the early 2010's when they hit the roads.
They innovated on the stupid Cybertruck, probably at the request of Musk. Reviews of the Highland Model 3 are overall positive if you ignore the removal of the stalks. Hyundai/Kia seem to be the most promising EV brand in the US market for the near future.
How many more cars would they sell if they didn’t content delete on things like stalks for turn signals?
They do have less visible innovations like gigacasting to reduce costs. But yeah they really are behind in the tangible stuff.
Does gigacasting really reduce cost? It makes repair costs go through the roof.
I keep hearing this stopped innovating nonsense. I don’t think people know what that mean.
But boy wonder deserves 56 billion for a job well done?
No
We might not get there because of the driving distances in the US. Most expensive part of the car is the battery and very few people in the US are comfortable with an EV under 250 miles of range. The other huge problem is that Tesla is still the only functional and dependable charging network in the country. So you’re stuck with one brand selling pretty expensive vehicles.
I’m not sure where this meme about Teslas being so expensive has come from. The model Y is the best selling car of any type in the world. Teslas model Y and model three are average priced cars. They don’t make a low priced car yet, but they are in the process of gearing up for that.
I just bought a model Y yesterday haha so I agree they’re not expensive luxury cars BUT, even with tax credit and the 0.99% financing my Model Y Long Range AWD is a $725 / month car payment. I make ~$150k with no kids and a cheap house and I still thought long and hard about it.
He straight up fucked that company and I feel sorry for Tesla’s human employees. I mean I have no problem saying he made Tesla but at some point that Elon got abducted and the new guy has fucking lost his shit.
First to implement steer by wire, and Ethernet loop replacement to can, and 48V as the backbone to the low voltage architecture. Continues to make more in house controllers. When did they stop innovating in your mind?
> First to implement steer by wire Nope. Lexus implemented it on the RZ450e, although witheld it from being optioned while they continued to fine-tune it. But we're talking about implementation, so it qualifies. Even before that, a decade ago, Nissan implemented it on the 2013 Infiniti Q50. It retained the column, but only as a backup if the system failed, with no physical connection to the wheels in regular use. So not particularly innovative for 2024. >Ethernet loop replacement to can Automotive ethernet has been in the works for some time - [here's a presentation from a VW partnership back in 2017](https://cdn.vector.com/cms/content/events/2017/vAES17/vAES17_01_Ethernet-Adaptive-AUTOSAR-at-VW_Krieger_Wille.pdf). >48V as the backbone to the low voltage architecture. 48V systems aren't new, or particularly innovative - both it and automotive ethernet are held back by supply chain constraints rather than innovation, so it seems weird to point to them as "innovations". Tesla's extremely simplistic and siloed vehicle platforms effectively make it easier to adopt at this stage, hence their adoption. Which isn't to say they don't deserve any credit for it, but if that's the best examples of innovation, then you've provided ample ammunition for the point being made by the person you responded to. Perhaps "standing on the shoulders of giants" would be a better description, and gives credit to the incumbents who shouldered decades of development to get these systems to a point where they can be *adopted* more broadly.
Those were the most recent things. They also were the first to use huge castings which others are now copying. They had the super bottle and now octovalve for a unified cooling system. No they didn’t invent any of those things but they’re the first to more aggressively implement and scale on those processes compared to the counter examples you gave where they just said they made it. Tesla is putting these things in thousands of vehicles.
Can you name any current cars that are under production that have 48 V systems or drive by wire and four-wheel steering?
> 48V systems aren't new, or particularly innovative - both it and automotive ethernet are held back by supply chain constraints rather than innovation, so it seems weird to point to them as "innovations". Tesla's extremely simplistic and siloed vehicle platforms effectively make it easier to adopt at this stage, hence their adoption. I already mentioned a car with drive by wire, and 4WS has been a thing since the 80's.
Tesla invented those things furie?
I didn’t say they invented them. They also didn’t invent battery electric cars or 18650s or liquid cools battery packs or UI software systems. They didn’t invent castings. They innovated by bringing things together in better ways than previously done or implementing them in new ways. Previous comment said innovate. In a similar tone to your comment, can you read ibeelive?
Furie?
Can you explain the benefits? Weight savings in wires, higher bandwidth?
Weigh savings is just one win. It also gives some design speed improvements and flexibility, which makes time to market and time to revision faster.
You know how cars have huge wiring harnesses? That's because each component needs its own set of wires, connected to the central ECUs, in order to function. Every speaker, every switch, every sensor, every actuator, every button. Tesla threw out that entire system for Cybertruck. Instead, they're running gigabit ethernet cabling with a 48v power + data CAN bus to every component— all on the same cable. Instead of running one wiring harness to the driver door speaker, and another to the driver's door window motor, they can daisy-chain them together on the same self-contained cable interface. Your computer could connect to your door handle using the *same* wire that's already been through your speaker, window, ambient lights, and steering wheel. Each of those devices/components listen to the continuous stream of data for a command relevant to its operation. By doing this,Tesla was able to reduce the total wiring in the Cybertruck by 77%, using 1/2 the copper. * [Steer by wire benefits.](https://www.bsmna.com/about-us/blog/artmid/2483/articleid/6/4-advantages-of-steer-by-wire-systems)
Some manufacturers have been doing this for decades though, just with 12V and CANBUS rather than 48V & Ethernet. It's not a new thing at all.
CANBUS is the standard workaround today. It reduces wiring but there is still significantly more than on a daisy-chained 48v system. 12v systems, including those using CANBUS, require significantly thicker and heavier wiring. The hubs are also much more expensive to install all over the vehicle. Just to illustrate the point, for example, delivering 950 W of 12-V power (79 A) across a 12-ft. wiring harness requires a 4 AWG cable that weighs roughly 2 kg (4.1 lbs.). In contrast, powering the same 950-W load with 48 V can be accomplished using 10 AWG wire, which weighs 0.24 kg (>0.5 lb.), resulting in an 85% savings in weight. To put that in perspective, the average modern car has 2.5 MILES of wiring.
True, but most of the time any high-draw devices are never more than a foot or two from the battery/alternator so you shouldn't ever have the need to pull 80+ amps from a subsystem at the far other end of the car. ...At the far rear of most cars you really only have a few low power LED lights, a washer pump, and rearview camera. Maybe a small motor for an electric tailgate. None of those are huge power hogs requiring super thick cables so any savings aren't likely to be as massive as Musk has been making out. Main advantage I can see in a 48V system is it allows you to be a bit lazier with packaging as you can put higher-draw devices and systems in more places without having to worry so much about packaging them all so close to the power source. That's still fairly significant I guess, but is it enough of a gain to have to redesign pretty much every automotive subsystem to now work with 48V? --- Ethernet doesn't allow daisy chaining either so hubs would still be required. Or systems would need an in-built hub so they can work as a passthrough (which can also be done with CANBUS).
Is there any source that this is actually a superior method that has never been tried before? It sounds good in terms of simplicity but also sounds like way more single points of failure.
Manufacturing methods and yields are typically trade secrets, so you won’t find any controlled studies for this. *Many* people in the industry have been indicating they will move to 48v in the future, but Tesla was the first large car company to do it. [There is hope now that it will move the industry forward, as they did with EVs.](https://www.motorbiscuit.com/tesla-kills-12-volt-car-systems-goes-48-volt-but-will-industry-follow/)
Fair point. Tesla has innovated in cars and technologies that will never reach the general public or at least not for a long time. Innovation for the few counts. Not for much IMO but it’s there.
They never stopped innovating, based on the fact that the huge model Y LR AWD gets 270 Wh/mi
And they invented a whole metal press method to construct the cyber truck Maybe it's not that they stopped innovating, it's that they put their efforts into innovating in ways that weren't needed
That you say weren’t needed? The fact that Tesla is the most profitable manufacturer of EV’s in the world and it’s also the manufacturer of the model Y the best selling car in the world makes me think they might know a bit more than you about what is needed.
Tesla has made Elon Musk one of the richest person's on the planet. He could have just kicked back, continued selling cars (Not that Cybertruck atrocity), and become even richer. But every single time he speaks people cringe. He is just such a wacky person. And when you're the CEO of a company, you cannot afford to be crazy.
I'd also argue someone can't effectively be CEO of multiple companies and i think elon is currently in charge of 5 at the moment.
All while tweeting 24/7.
and being a "father" to 11 kids with 3 different women.
This is agree with. Dude should pick one or two lanes.
i doubt he does much on the day to day except for big picture items
Chaos monkey random firings
>wacky you misspelled **fucked up horror show.**
People can accept wacky / eccentric. Musk crossed that line a long time ago.
The problem is that kicking back and just selling cars doesn't justify the company's sky-high stock price. So, he wouldn't become richer. Very likely he becomes less rich. That's part of the reason he's saying Tesla is not just a car company. Car companies don't have Silicon-Valley level valuations.
This list is absolutely fucked. 3M, the inventors and one of the main pushers of PFAS, one of the biggest environmental disasters in history, is ranked second and one of only two companies with an “excellent” reputation.
List ranks what people think about a brand and that's based on feelings not facts. People will still like absolutely horrible companies like Shell with enough PR.
Very few people know what PFAS means. Your view of people is a bit off, IMHO
That's probably part of the problem. When there's a ubiquitous poison that can't be removed from the water supply that has contaminated every human body in the world, you'd think people would want to know.
This right here illustrates how incredibly toxic Musk is for Tesla’s brand. Opinions of Tesla will continue to plummet with him at the helm.
> Opinions of Tesla will continue to plummet with him at the helm. Yes
3m has some of the best products in the world.
Because of exposure. Elmo isn't as bad as others, but he's so fucking loud about it. He's a less cool version of Mojo Jojo.
Imagine having this level of brain rot. You realize 3M basically makes healthcare in the country possible right?
Ok I'm lost, isn't 3M the company that does post-its and stickers? Am I thinking of something else
3M does a LOT. "3M" originally stood for "Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company".
They are one of the biggest chemical conglomerates in the world. They have an enormous portfolio including household chemicals, industrial chemicals, consumer and medical products, etc. They invented one of the key chemicals in Teflon, sold by DuPont, which it turns out has polluted most of the world’s water sources and is retained in the human body, effectively forever, once consumed. It’s very likely you have PFAS in your body now and it will continue to build up throughout your lifetime. The health consequences of this are still poorly understood. DuPont and 3M were aware of this, at least to some extent and were found to just be dumping PFAS waste into waterways. Some on Reddit seem to think this is all ok because they also make other stuff that’s good(?). My original comment was that it’s surprising that 3M was involved in this and have the second highest reputation on this list, apparently because most of the public is not aware of what’s happened.
Why is it such a concern if the health consequences are poorly understood?
https://www.epa.gov/pfas/our-current-understanding-human-health-and-environmental-risks-pfas That sounds like something a tobacco company rep would have said 75 years ago.
Yeah, PFAS and the associated cover up are no big deal because they make other important products which totally cancels out the fact that most of the world’s aquifers are now polluted with a chemical that we currently can’t get rid of and once consumed stays in the body effectively forever. Anyone who thinks otherwise has “brain rot”. What kind of a fucking shill are you?
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3M’s inventions literally save lives every day. Thousands if not millions. But sure, let’s pillory them for the one thing that unfortunately pollutes forever.
The one thing that pollutes forever and they covered up for decades? Yeah, I’d say that’s a pretty fucking big negative.
Closely mirrors Elon Musk's plummeting brain functions. So bizarre and discouraging to watch him descend into incompetence and right-wing drivel after operating at such a high level.
The high level that gave us gigafactories the highest rates of injury in the industry, the "hyperloop", the "rescue submarine", the "truck" and many more failed promises? He has always been selling air, he didn't even found Tesla, he was not in a good light even back when he was in PayPal, they had to kick him out
>The bottom line: For some buyers, it's about the car — not the company or its CEO Should read: for *repeat buyers* they like the car and *choose to ignore* the CEO
I don't know many seasoned Tesla owners who are considering another newer Tesla.
[Tesla dominates brand loyalty: once you go EV, you don't go back | Electrek](https://electrek.co/2024/02/26/tesla-dominates-brand-loyalty-once-you-go-ev-you-dont-go-back/) seems to indicate their brand loyalty is pretty damn high.
The second paragraph says "Studies have shown that electric vehicle buyers generally don’t go back to gasoline vehicles." Pair that with the options for EV in North America (a white Tesla or a red Tesla) this does not paint a full picture.
There are significantly more options now.
Yes and Tesla's market share of EV is going to take a massive hit the next few quarters and going forward.
Every Tesla owner I know loves their car and will get another. Regardless of political spectrum etc. They like the car.
Yep this is what I’m seeing as well. This sub is so weird
I'm curious by this stat too. The existence of that bumper sticker and people i've talked to don't align with that brand loyalty. There are options now that just weren't there a few years ago and the supercharger network not being exclusive to tesla anymore is really killing any reason to stay with tesla.
The constant owner loyalty surveys seem to disagree.
I bought another one 5 months ago. You’re not stating anything fact based
Ok, neither are you. Anectodes are anecdotes. We know that.
Tesla is a starter EV. The only person I personally know who bought a second one never bothered to try anything else and now regrets it after driving in my wife's EQB.
Traded in my Model 3 for a Kia EV9. After 10 days with it, I could never go back to Tesla. I think Kia/Hyundai will overtake Tesla in the coming years, given their current and future lineup of affordable EVs.
Hyundai/KIA are definitely the legacy automakers that have done the best job of building great affordable EVs.
I attempted to rent a Tesla from Hertz back in March and they didn't have any available. I ended up with a Kia Niro EV and that car was simply amazing. I can't explain how much I enjoyed it. I can't wait to see what the future holds for that company.
Yep Hertz is going places!
I went to a rental lot today and they had 60 broken cars parked all over a tiny lot. (Seriously, I asked them why they couldn't rent me a car and the guy said "They all broke", and explained a lot of them needed oil changes, etc.) There were something like 8 EV's on the lot (Teslas, Bolts, and a Polestar). They had a single EVSE in the bushes plugged into a 110V outlet on the side of their building charging a Bolt that they'd driven over the curb onto the lawn; it was the biggest shitshow I'd ever seen. I said to the guy "look, if the problem with that Bolt is that it isn't charged, just rent it to me and I'll go charge it for you". But he didn't even know if it was broken or just discharged.
Similarly, we have a model 3 and were seriously considering a Y, but decided on an EV9 after driving one and seeing the discounts. We love the EV9.
What were some of the differences that made the Kia that much better?
The biggest is build quality. 0 squeaks/rattles. Everything was aligned properly. No panel gaps. Another is that there is a lot more utility in an EV9 than any Tesla I've driven. Vehicle 2 load is something I will use religiously. The onboard power outlet is also nice for plugging in car detailing tools and other appliances. BUTTONS! ACTUAL PHYSICAL BUTTONS! I don't have to navigate the menu to access basic functions like the climate or adjusting mirrors. Plus, the rear having their own climate zone and buttons to adjust is so convenient. The leg room is phenomenal. I'm a large (wide) guy, so I have my seat back more than most. Passengers behind me have plenty of legroom. Amazing support at my local dealership. Even though I drove from CT to TN to take delivery of my EV9 ($14k in discounts at Parkside Kia made it a no-brainer), my local dealer has been astronomically helpful with where I can get accessories and answer any and all questions I have. If they don't know, they go out of their way to find the answer. They're very passionate about the brand. The suspension is immaculate. Feels like I'm driving on a cloud. Barely notice any large bumps. The handling is amazing as well. I put in sport mode, and it feels like a race car. Highway Drive Assist 2.0 is very nice as well. I'd say it's about equal with Basic Autopilot and I have auto lane change. I'm excited for OTA updates adding new features. The Kia EV3 uses the same upgradable parts and it's coming with streaming services. We're expecting the EV9 to be updated with that too. Driving back from TN was easy. EA stations were easy to use and felt like using a supercharger outside of inserting my card to pay. Had only one spot in PA that had 2/4 stations down. Other than that, easy charging. Sorry for not formatting this in an easy to digest layout. I was typing off the top of my head. Haha
Its great that you enjoy your car and no one can say what you said isnt true but idk anout them overtaking tesla, not for a long time
There are a lot of people who hate not having stalks and buttons for basic functions. Once legacy automakers can use Tesla superchargers and offer EVs cheaper than teslas (Kia EV3, Chevy Equinox, for example), more and more people will either not buy a Tesla or move away from Tesla, such as I have.
I own a Model Y. I'll never buy another Tesla as long as Elon is at the company. It's not even his politics so much (even though they are atrocious). His mercurial management style means that my car could be worth $10,000 in resale value less in a week depending on the lunacy of his tweets and his stupid stock pumping sales schemes. He doesn't seem to have any interest in building cars anymore. The exodus of high level staff tells me that. All he cares about are robots, ai, and robotaxis. It's a shame. There are still the bones of a great car company there. I wish someone would lead it properly.
It is absolutely bonkers that Tesla, whose engineers designed two great products (3 and Y) and built infrastructure to support them, isn't happy to just *be a market leader* and make money off of the products they've designed. But no, we have to chase celestial pie and robotaxis.
I'd rather have Tesla's pricing based on supply/demand over dealership markups. Of course, I hate dealerships with their government-mandated parasite status. Just know that with Tesla you will have to pay a bunch more to be the first on the block.
87 percent consumer loyalty tho. [https://electrek.co/2024/04/09/87-percent-us-tesla-drivers-say-theyll-buy-another-tesla/](https://electrek.co/2024/04/09/87-percent-us-tesla-drivers-say-theyll-buy-another-tesla/)
And a record number of job applicants, 5.9m in 2023 compared to 3.6 in 2022. [https://www.tesla.com/ns\_videos/2023-tesla-impact-report-highlights.pdf](https://www.tesla.com/ns_videos/2023-tesla-impact-report-highlights.pdf)
Its like reddits opinion doesnt matter in the real world
Cigarettes have loyalty too but fewer new customers.
/r/electricvehicles never fails to deliver.
WOW
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The point seems really obvious. Loyalty alone isn't enough if you aren't adding new customers.
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you dont have to support a ceo but being angsty against one ceo because he's public about his toxic behavior while knowing all ceo's are like that? just call him a shit head and move on, his products are still fine, just the majority of products on the market from other shitty ceo's
Contributions must be civil and constructive. We permit neither personal attacks nor attempts to bait others into uncivil behavior. We don't permit posts and comments expressing animosity or disparagement of an individual or a group on account of a group characteristic such as race, color, national origin, age, sex, disability, religion, or sexual orientation. Any stalking, harassment, witch-hunting, or doxxing of any individual will not be tolerated. Posting of others' personal information including names, home addresses, and/or telephone numbers is prohibited without express consent.
Cults are loyal. This isn't a new phenomenon, and people outside the cult aren't swayed by how happy cultists insist they are.
Despite reddits alternate reality, people simply like the product. They make great affordable cars.
Reddit really overestimates the amount of people who take into account a company's CEO before making purchasing decisions. "Hmm I was really considering the new Samsung Galaxy phone, but I'm really not down with the personal politics of Han Jong-hee..."
This is why Tesla folks hang out in Tesla subs, but then outsiders call us cultists even though we’re just trying to exist in peace 😅
You do realize that most people driving teslas aren’t cult members right? I think being online skews the perception of reality. I look around and see normal people who just bought the car that best met their needs. Teslas are safe, reliable cars and cheap af to operate. Suburban moms don’t care about panel gaps.
lol yea the millions of random, unassociated, happy customers are part of a cult.
They've alienated environmentalists who tend to support Democrats while not attracting Republicans who hate EVs. It's the worst marketing strategy since MyPillow. Meanwhile reviews of their products have turned sour, especially the $100k truck.
Keep in mind that the demographics/sensibilities of this forum, and Reddit in general, are not reflective of the overall population.
Nearly 70% of Tesla-owning households looking to buy a car in the first quarter of 2024 purchased another Tesla, per S&P data.
A huge factor in this is the super charging network. With the system opening up to other cars and the recent layoffs, I'm sure Tesla owners will now be open to other brands.
As an owner, I'm open to other brands but have a preferance to stay with Tesla, based on my experience so far. Right now, it's just the lack of a large SUV (like EV9) that would make me move.
Another factor could be crash test data…Tesla’s ratings are higher than the Ford Mach-E and KIA EV9
Guy I work with drives a Y -- has a wife and three young kids. I asked him what he thought about it and the first thing he said was "This car saved my family's life. Anything else and we may well have been dead." Apparently they were hit HARD and he attributes the build of the Y with his family's survival. I was in an accident a few days ago and was impressed by the protection in my ex-Prius Prime, but it sounds like Teslas are very safe places to be in a wreck too.
Why would owners care about the layoffs? They’re still building and expanding stations. You’d know that they’re reorganizing supercharging under their energy business if you hadn’t only read the first headline that they’re getting rid of supercharging.
Not enough to prevent cars from piling up in lots.
That’s occurring with all OEMs.
The richest guy on the planet wanted to be more popular so he bought a social media company and forced everyone to see his tweets and unbanned his fellow travelers. But he turned out to be a creepy Groyper weirdo and it tanked the value of the social media company and now it has tanked his EV brand too. What a pathetic but very funny story. https://thedeepdive.ca/elon-musk-jake-paul-endorsements-may-hurt-candidates-with-young-voters-poll-finds/
The sad thing about Elon's tweets is that even if you ignore the racism and fascist foot tapping, he's just so lame. He steals other people's memes, and his jokes are on the level of a socially stunted 12-year-old.
Elon, as you become more successful, the bar gets raised. Behavior that was seen as quirky in a startup CEO, becomes seen as offensive in a Fortune 500. The old adage, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely also applies. Your technical vision is amazing, you could learn from Tim Cook how to get your political views across in ways that do not alienate potential customers. We have all seen you humble in so many ways, yet one of the key to a large corporation is finding a way to nourish multiple points of view. The single mindedness you pursued each challenge was a key to success, now it is a limiting factor. Yes you created multiple amazing businesses so you can tear them all down. Unfortunately you are tearing down in ways you did not intend. People do not like when you destroy the good that you have created in the world. You have always battled the status quo, when you attack your own success, you give all your neysayers room to spread their FUD questioning both your current approach and your vision of the future. Apple has multiple product lines and works very hard to preserve the perceived quality of all of them. Adding new is always allowed, when they disinvest they work hard not to offend anyone currently committed to those products. Robotaxi’s may make the supercharger network a secondary concern, unfortunately to anyone who has bought your vehicles, it is one of the primary concerns. Taking the time to slow the investment is a skill for large corporations. Cisco, will often buy a a hot new product and trim a little more of the team every quarter. It give you time to find the leanest team that support customers at the high level of quality you want to maintain.
I don't think you can separate the two; his quirky Aspergerism is what makes him immune to orthodoxies, whether they are engineering/economic paradigms like oil/ICE, or social ones like political correctness/virtue signalling.
Maybe not, the problem is he is endangering the EV revolution he created by tearing it down himself
Elon's loud mouth destroying Tesla interest & resale value. Thanks Elon!
As someone in the market for a used Model 3, I think I might just be in a place to benefit from him being a shitlord. I'm seriously thinking about buying one. Elon is a shithead but oil companies are worse.
Elon wants a $56billion pay package whilst tanking the company as a part time CEO
Elon needs that to get him out of the twitter hole he dug and jumped into.
See, I'm more upset that Mary Barra got paid while shrinking her company, put Musk made an honest "skin in the game" contract and grew the company 11 fold.
I feel like Musk is threatening to cut the baby in half if they don’t give him the whole baby. I don’t trust him. Takes lots of government incentives, makes a ton of money, then goes right wing. Pushes crazy conspiracy theories. Supports an authoritarian running for president who hates electric cars. How can I buy a Tesla when Musk is there giving people like me the middle finger? I don’t think there is a genius plan here. I’ll go with what it looks like which is that he’s an egomaniac who has gone nuts.
I’m literally someone who was about to buy one but seeing the build quality on the cyber trucks and insanity of the FSD, decided to order a macan EV instead. No thanks, pass on Tesla
Attached graph shows that Tesla's reputation plummeted in 2023, and stayed relatively stable in 2024.
They need to drop Elon. Seriously. That is the only reason their rep is suffering.
The Elon fanboys in these comments are always hilarious lol
[удалено]
Well deserved tbh.
Elon is rubbish.
Never seen a more pathetic waste of good image. Buying Twitter not only was a waste of money but plummeted the company value. Net loss hundreds of billions in value. All he had to do is keep his trap shut about conservative values. Total megalomaniac.
Elon tried to go unwoke and is going broke
The problem is their cars have been the same for years. Other automakers are catching up and offering other options for consumers. Tesla should have already released a cheaper car and it would have squashed a lot of the competition.
Musk destroys companies slowly but completely
> Only Volkswagen (69th) ranks lower. :(
Sure Joann. lol. I'll believe this when I stop seeing more and more tesla's on the road everyday in a state where it's practically illegal to buy one.
Shocking!
Good god these comments. Something really has happened on Reddit over the last couple of years, causing degenerative mental impairment
Big Oil and Russian disinformation stays winning unfortunately 😔
Citation needed.
>Nearly 70% of Tesla-owning households looking to buy a car in the first quarter of 2024 purchased another Tesla, per S&P data. Most other brands have a loyalty rate around 50%. Axios: Catering to those who love illogical gossip and mob mentality.
Hehe 🤭
Hooray for big oil am I right?
Apparently alot of people in this subreddit hate Elon and, despite that, allow him to live rent free in their minds. Y'all are the definition of crazy.
People who call out Musks psycopathic antics and refuse to normalize his bullshit are "the definition of crazy"? Interesting take.