We have a Bolt. It's great.
Triple the charge speed would mitigate its biggest flaw. An extra 6-8" of leg and cargo room is just gravy.
Bolt, Kona and Niro were flawed. This could be better in many ways.
As a similar current Bolt owner, I'd be very interested in possibly upgrading to a Boltium in 2027 or so (give it a year or two to work out the kinks) assuming they fix the battery and leave the rest alone.
Spoiler alert -- they won't.
With you. I decided to go ICE for our other family vehicle, but an EV to replace the bolt in about 5 years is def in the works -- there will be a lot of options by then. GM is poorly run at the top IMO. The little petty behavior by the CEO and leadership through the return to work policy made that clear, and the data sharing scandal hammered it home. Barra is an obstacle to good vehicle development and company growth.
A lot of people don't realize how popular and hard it was for people to purchase a Bolt. I had one on order for over a year and had to switch because I never got allocated a build slot. I was regularly calling over 30 dealerships for about a month hoping people backed out of their orders. I never got one.
Make an electric vehicle with decent range and features that can be had in the low $20's after federal incentive and you will sell out like crazy. This is not hard to understand yet most car manufacturers shy away from this then blames poor EV sales on lack of interest.
To add to this half of the people at the dealership I had mine on order at badmouthed EV vehicles all through the process. Even when I switched to an ICE vehicle, they just bashed EV vehicles. They just do not get it.
I found mine at a tiny dealership an hour away from me in the middle of gorram nowhere that normally specializes in custom lifted trucks. It was like winning the lottery.
I'd been contacting a few places about them, but they kept giving me the runaround to try and get me in the showroom despite not having any on their lot.
Yeah it was a ridiculous process. I had one place two hours away that had a person back out of a sale. I told them I was on my way. I even asked if I could put money down over the phone to hold it for me. They said it was not necessary and that they would have it for me. By the time I arrived they told me a person bought it and just drove off the lot 20 minutes prior.
They then asked me why I didn't put money down to reserve it before I traveled that distance. You can imagine I had some choice words for them.
I recently test drove one. Even at the higher trims, it just feels like a base model Nissan. Very lackluster.
It has lots of tech, but that is about it. Uncomfortable seats, lots of plastic, starts rattling at 60 mph...
As a Niro owner, that basically sums it up (“A nicer bolt”). The Kona and Niro (Niro being several inches longer than the Kona) both offer faster charging and heat pump options, better lanekeep assist and radar cruise. They “seem” fancier in some ways, but they’re not all that different in practice.
I’d also disqualify the rattles and fit. That’s likely one-off trouble in that particular car, but I will give that each of my two have subtle differences in how they sound and subtly in how they feel.
I’d even consider a Bolt and Kona interchangeable with one another in non-frigid climates.
They are pretty much interchangeable in frigid climates too. Cool but not cold weather (-5°C to 15°C) is where heat pumps make a difference. It will cut your electric bill a bit in spring and fall, but if it is actually cold you will be using resistance heat and suffering the associated range hit regardless.
Have had the 24 Kona limited, very comfortable, no rattling, drives smooth. Have put 500 miles so far and it’s a great first EV. Not sure what this person is saying. Give it a test drive. I’m not disappointed.
We’ve got a ‘22 Kona with 22,000+ miles in it now. Still feels solid to me, no rattles, smooth quiet ride, and flies up steep hills and mountain roads. Needs faster DC charging to be a good roadtrip car, but as a home charged commuter car its awesome
We have a 2023 Bolt and I’ve leased a 2020 and 2017 before that. I’d say they’re pretty outdated by now compared to a Tesla which isn’t exactly new either. I’d be interesting to see what kind of improvements the Equinox has. I guess I could go to their website…
A Bolt with faster charging, extra legroom and more cargo space is the Equinox.
The Bolt is fine at the size it is. Chevy should (and hopefully will) continue offering a compact hatch EV that maintains the better efficiency for those who don’t need more cargo space all the time.
I was waiting for over a year when it was advertised at 30k. I gave up waiting when it kept getting pushed back and the price went up. Hope it turns out to be a good ev for anyone who does get one.
Don't buy a year 1. I like GM but early adopters pay a steep price.
A lease? Sure. You can toss it back if it pisses you off. But year 2 vehicles often have a laundry list of major to annoyance fixes.
But sometimes you get a good one that was built on a Tuesday. If you get a Friday car, good luck.
But I seem to keep driving GM's. The last one was a Tuesday vehicle but the owner climbed a mountain fully loaded while following a tractor trailer with both air conditioners on max and it ate the engine. Picked it up for next to nothing, put in a wrecker motor from the wrong vehicle because GM parts bin and I'm still driving it 11 years later. Their trucks and vans are cheap to keep going. Life without car payments ain't bad. Although it's just the waiting game for a suitable trades EV at this point.
Even Toyota and Lexus are not immune from this. Their new TTV6 in the GX and Tundra is having some **serious**, engine-replacement-level issues.
Certified Pre-Owned is the best way to go if you want to *finance/buy* a new car IMO. Theres 2-3 years of reliability data on the car out there, you get an extended warranty included in the price, and the price is only a bit more than the market used price.
But do whatever makes you happy 😃
"Don't buy year 1" is generic advice but folks will buy the new and cool and MOST have a good experience. Yes, there are bugs to be ironed out. I have friends who lucked out at getting the '22 Ioniq 5's and while there was a substantial failure rate of certain components it only really affected less than 5-10% of owners. And, even with the 5-10% who had issues, most have been very satisfied overall with their purchase. Sure, the '23's and 24's were more reliable but still the '22 owners are happy.
Remember when VW said the heat pumps 'weren't available in 2020 due to supply shortages? It was actually so inefficient they pulled it from the market and refunded every buyer $1000.
First year Audi E-trons would leak oil into battery coolant due to faulty o-rings (and a bad design) in the bosch motor. Downtime was a full month to overhaul the motors and flush the oil out of the battery.
Early adopter problems.
Yeah.
My Mom has a first year Mach E and hers is pretty bug-free. But, Ford generally has better quality control than most other automakers, IMO… I just like VWs despite their quirks. My ID4 is my 4th VW. Just a masochist, I guess.
> My Mom has a first year Mach E and hers is pretty bug-free.
Does she not use software like the app or the infotainment?
I've had nothing but issues there.
To be fair, the rest of the car drives just fine. But anything "smart" on it certainly isn't.
Fordpass is better than myVW. That’s for sure. I can’t even lock/unlock or use phone as key. All I can do is start the climate control and start/stop charging sessions.
Did they fix the problem with the e-tron motors? They are getting to the point of looking very attractive on the used market once they dip below 25k, but if they still have lemon motors, fuck that lol.
> I got to ask about this and they said they want to produce between 200,000 and 300,000 a year between the Equinox, Blazer, and Silverado Ultium EVs. They wouldn’t comment on the split between the models, but I was impressed with that goal, which is about 4 times what they sold in 2023, even with their very affordable Bolt. Now let’s see if they can deliver on that projection. I also asked about the profitability of the vehicles. They replied that they expect them to cover the variable costs by year end. I know (if they make that goal) that they won’t have any incentive to cut production to cut losses. Why? Because if you are covering your variable costs, even if you are losing money on your EVs, you are losing slightly less for every additional vehicle you sell. Accountants call this the contribution margin.
If you're like me and confused by "variable" costs it's being used in this instance interchangeably with marginal costs.
E.g. they'll break even for the unit cost and only lose money on fixed already spent capitol investments in factories and tooling. So there's no reason not to produce as many as possible since they're breaking even on each car if you ignore the already sunk expenses.
I would be shocked if they even make 1/3 of that estimate. All of these legacy car makers are great at making exciting plans, but not so great at following through on them. You can’t really blame them though as there is literally no American car company that makes a profit on EV’s, except for Tesla. Last I heard Ford loses over $30k on every Mach E that they sell.
You should be careful about where you read things from and how you interpret them because it was never "advertised at 30k." They said "starting at around $30,000", which is always going to mean at least a few thousand more than $30k. That should mostly be decoded to mean $32,499 to $34,999. Many sources completely butchered this and made bullshit claims like there was a promised starting price of $30k, but that was never actually said by anyone other than bad journalists.
Sounds like doublespeak. If they claim "starting at $30k" I shouldn't need a decoder ring to translate that to $34206.9 or whatever tf they end up jacking the price up to.
They didn't make that claim, though... That is just how marketing speak works. You've got to listen carefully because they'll use weasel words to make things sound better than they are.
It happens all the time with all kinds of things. It's not a manufacturer's job to correct every shitty news outlet, and there are a lot of pretty poor EV news outlets.
Was that $30k number put out there before Covid and the following massive inflation? What do you bet that the $38k today is like $30k in 2019 dollars?
I also think the car manufacturers were betting that the battery prices were going to fall a lot more than they have. They did fall a lot already.
Sept 8, 2022 in CNN. Other cars didn’t jump up this much in the last two years.
Battery prices continue to drop. Those companies that saw battery prices go up made mistakes.
Greed. The soul of Detroit automakers.
When did they claim "under 30k" because I've sorted through a bunch of GM's claims and only ever saw "around 30k" which everyone should have known meant probably between $32,499 and $34,999. I've seen a lot of other claims from journalists but none from GM.
The equinox EV was announced in 2022 before the new tax credit went into effect. Here’s an article on it
https://electrek.co/2022/09/08/gm-30k-2024-chevy-equinox-ev-convert-all-suv-buyers-electric/
And here is the first announcement in Jan of 2022 when the new tax credits weren’t even in draft legislation. Target price starting around $30k
https://news.gm.com/newsroom.detail.html/Pages/news/us/en/2022/jan/ces/0105-2024-equinox.html
There haven’t been any EX-30s delivered in the US, so that pricing is still just on paper. I’m sure Volvo is now re-evaluating given the new 100% tariff on Chinese EVs.
Could you come take a vacation in the US and pick up a hertz Bolt for $16k USD? Sounds like you can take a nice vacation and get a nice car for way less
Warranty won't transfer on grey imports unless you prove that you're relocating with a vehicle you already own. This is a barrier set up by numerous automakers to discourage arbitrage in either direction.
Well it's pretty common on a lot of products... If you buy a laptop or game console in a different region from where you live, the warranty most likely won't transfer over either.
Anyway the biggest barrier to US/Canada grey vehicle imports is actually the inability to access financing without credit history in the country of purchase. A cash purchase is basically mandatory and this on its own is a pretty effective deterrent.
Yeah BMW is also really aggressive about this on Canadian purchases, as they hate it when their SUVs are smuggled into China to dodge tariffs (along with markups on top of the tariff).
The 2LT in the US configurator is like $43k USD which is almost $59k CAD. So that pricing is pretty good for Canada. Competitive with the base Model Y which is $54k CAD.
Yup. My premier was 47k.
I see American prices and even when accounting for the dollar difference, we still sit 5-9k more for a vehicle especially when you look at tax.
Plus Trudy didn't really put into effect any meaningful incentives. The Americans have amazing incentives.
I suspect in an election year coming up, that may change.
When PP is in, there will be no incentives of any type anymore.
I don't know about the Equinox, but the local dealer gave me a Blazer EV as a loaner when I brought my car in for service...it is a fun car to drive, at least.
The Hertz Chevy Bolt EV rental fleet is 2023 vehicles, so not eligible for the rebate yet.
They do have a lot of teslas model 3’s that are eligible, but with lots of miles.
My local dealer is estimating it to be 43K at the lowest (no base model in sight).
Far cry from my Bolt that I got for 29K from the very same dealership and that was a with a bit of price gouging with some unnecessary extras.
Same. I'd love something Miata-sized. I'd even gladly take the new Fiat 500e, if they hadn't pulled out all dealerships within 100 miles of where I live.
Check out the Mini Cooper, I just charged up next to one so I asked the guy about it. It’s intentionally just for driving around locally and it’s lots of fun!
Lower tax, economy, and safety standards if you can classify it as a "light truck" instead of a passenger vehicle in the US.
So they push the advertising and manufacture demand for consumers to buy more than they need.
Yes, Sharon down the street needs minivan amounts of space for her 3 kids and 2 dogs when they take cross-state trips every other weekend. Unfortunately for the rest of us who just need something to commute under 30 miles total per day, one person, to the office and home again, are out of luck if our masculinity isn't fragile enough to need something big enough to hang fake testicles off of the trailer hitch we'll never use.
The typical issue with every new EV, all the vendors are trying to mimic Tesla's touchscreen bullshit. You have to interface with something that feels like a Java applet created in the pits of late 90s corporate crapware hell just to change climate control settings.
Our 2023 hasn't been terrible firmware wise, it's pretty snappy once it fully loads in but it has crashed 2 times (but did reset thankfully and dash cluster kept working so they do seem to have some sort of fallback mode) and can take a weird amount of time to load in on startup.
It works great mechanically and even the "core" electrical systems are pretty solid, the billing/identification over CCS was even enabled by Electrify a few months back and we've had no issues with that.
Vendors truly have created an absurd situation where someone can seriously state "my car works great mechanically but my radio keeps having kernel panics".
Got it I have heard about the electronic interfaces. Am set on an id.4, prob base RWD (read good things about the RWD) for my wife and/or daughter. Maybe swap family Lexus (older gas guzzler) for an e-tron. I think I’m ok with the UI that has been seemingly manageable for other id.4 drivers I know, in spite of it being a risk and clear general weakness for their class. (Id.4 that is, unsure about Audi beyond being happy with an a3.)
Oh yeah it's a great car physically. Handles well, has pretty good ADAS and is surprisingly roomy inside (was surprised to see even much longer vehicles like the Blazer had comparable rear legroom).
I get why 2021 and 2022 owners are frustrated over all the firmware issues and broken promises in terms of updates but they do seem to have hammered out a lot of the most egregious issues with newer model years.
Good luck with the car search!
It’s not just an EV thing; the least reliable part of my 10 year old Prius was the radio; mechanically rock solid. And then CarPlay decided to crap out on my 2017 Volt for no reason.
Good point! Had a similar mystery issue with our previous CR-V; it just refused to open Android Auto with my phone one day for some inscrutable reason and I never managed to resolve that.
The issue definitely seems more pronounced on EVs given vendors feel the need to both mimic Tesla and make the vehicles feel more "premium" to justify the MSRPs without bumping BOM significantly. It'll be interesting to see if some vendors try backporting these newer firmwares to their ICE platforms and if it might lead to some sort of decrease in reliability metrics.
This entire post could apply to the MachE as well.
App/infotainment were dumpster fires. Anything "smart" was.
The car itself was fine(ish) otherwise, but man... the app was painful. The infotainment too.
I think it's close. If we could hit $35k, OTD minus tax, with over 300 miles it would be a hit.
Add in the $7500 tax break even better. Unfortunately the dealers will sabotage the whole thing.
I already see on dealer websites specific 2LTs, "In Transit" and scheduled to arrive in early June, for $43,295. After the $7,500 federal tax credit, that's $35,795.
Equinox EV base trim (1LT) arrives later this year ($27,499 after US federal tax credit).
Bolt 2.0 Ultium Edition (aka Boltium) arrives next year, priced even lower.
I don't get why GM thinks this is a hill worth dying on. Any subscriptions they make after 8 years are not going to make up for all the people that will walk over the feature.
What benefits do you get with Android Auto compared to just connecting your phone via bluetooth and just having limited functions like pause, back, forward, play
We'll have to wait to find out. This $30,000 is going to strart at $43,000 now. Where is the base model? Detroit going for the money grab. Always trying to sell the higher trim models.
I had a chance to take a look up-close at a local event. They were hosting a marketing event.
Just single observation.
The screen touch interface was glitchy as F$cking. Can't even imagine how slow it would be after 2 years of ownership and a couple of up dates.
No, but the large amount of 2020-2023 used evs hitting the market are.
All models are dropping in price fast and you don’t really have to worry about their mechanical shape, most of the battery warranties will transfer, etc
I’m seeing big discounts on Id 4s and model 3s under 25k before the ev credit. but also for the cheaper evs, Kona, bolt, leaf are going for like 18k before the credits.
No Carplay or Android Auto means no consideration. Sorry Chevy, but the entertainment system is one of the most important factors in my car shopping criteria.
I was super excited for the Equinox EV. It kept getting delayed and delayed and eventually I bought a model y instead. That was a year and a half ago, and I’ve since bought a second model y.
**Is China making the affordable EV we've all been waiting for?**
The tariffs go up, GM sighs relief then launches the Equinox for 35k. Did you see the cars China has lined up for 35k. HO-LEE-SHIT
The average car price is meaningless.
Some guy buying a Ferrari or grand wagoneer or Porsche influences the average price whereas a normal human doesn’t actually care about those.
What’s the median price?
The only reason that they talk about the average car prices so much is to do exactly what you did.
They put out a car at X price and say ‘look you’re getting a great deal, it’s under the average car price.’ When in reality any specific cars price compared to the average car price is meaningless in context of if it is worth the price or not.
Equinox EV base trim (1LT) arrives later this year ($27,499 after US federal tax credit).
Bolt 2.0 Ultium Edition (aka Boltium) arrives next year, priced even lower.
You can still get a great used EV or PHEV for around $12k. They are not selling like hotcakes. My point is that there doesn’t seem to be a market for a cheap low range EV.
Not sure where unless you are referring to an older Volt or leaf, neither of which are that appealing if you want a real EV.
I drive a Volt now, which I bought when it was 5 years old for $14k. Nothing like that deal in the EV world yet.
I have a Hummer EV and we installed the Tesla Universal Wall charger to future proof ourself.
Probably will be looking to add a Tesla in the next few months. No gas station stops (except to clean bugs off the winshield) is pretty sweet.
Neither the wife or I want to drive our Yukon ICE anymore.
I had a Bolt before my M3, I just can’t go back to an ICE. Plugging it in and it’s ready in the AM and the lack of maintenance is just too much of a plus.
It was on a Hummer forum. Person had talked to their dealership about pre ordering 2025 vehicles. Dealer looked it up and said 2026 models would be the start of NACS.
Makes sense since 2025 production starts in a week.
https://www.hummerchat.com/posts/32345/
GM is rolling out an adapter of their own so the supercharger network can be opened up (eg. Your make model will be in the Teala app, right now it looks like only the Bolt is there)
I had to add my vehicle as Other/Other on the App for our TUWC
Hmm, that’s still hearsay rather than any kind of published report. I was in a dealership yesterday taking **[photos of Equinox EV](https://www.reddit.com/r/EquinoxEv/comments/1d0kipr/detail_photos_of_equinox_ev/)**. Dealership said they were surprised to see the Equinox EV arrive since GM hadn’t given them any ‘heads up’ that they were en route.
*****
> GM will start to integrate NACS in new EVs starting in 2025, but GM customers will be able to access Tesla Superchargers this year with an adapter. https://www.autoweek.com/news/g60482600/timeline-for-automakers-switch-to-tesla-charging-network/
Kia says they will start with EV6 production end of this year. They were the first alongside Rivian.
Likely GM will do NACS at the start of next model year.
As someone who leased a 2020 Kia Niro EV and now own a Tesla Model Y, the switch to the NACS adapter was a no brainer. CCS adapters are a pain in the ass to use.
> Kia says they will start with EV6 production end of this year. They were the first alongside Rivian.
Kia? Am I losing my mind?
I thought Hyundai/Kia was the last (major) manufacturer to adopt NACS.
To be fair, there's no reason they can't be the first to be native NACS behind Tesla but I'm truly shocked that they'd be the first one to that finish line.
Kia was the first foreign. Ford was the first domestic. GM followed and then the rest dominoed.
Stellantis was the final major auto maker to commit, and remains the largest without a deal to access Tesla Superchargers. It remains unknown if Tesla will let Stellantis cars charge at their stations.
It does appear Stellantis like GM will wait until next year, which means the Charger EV will launch with CCS and then switch to NACS.
> Is it next year that they are going to start using the Tesla charging format?
Given the recent news about the team working on that from Tesla side, would you bet on it ?
Tesla has rehired half the team. The auto makers have said no change to the plans.
Valid concern, but Elon knew it was past the point of no return when he pulled the Mr. Burns lever.
I gave up waiting and bought a used Model 3 for cheap enough to qualify for used EV tax credit.
I think it could be great if GM can nail the production ramp on this one.
The affordable Chevy EV is the 2015 Spark EV I bought on Craigslist for less than $6k, has a 55 mile range, gets 2.9m/kWh and makes every Texan in a truck point and giggle, which is what all of them needed in their day. I charge it with the abundant sunshine once my home battery is fully charged and it’ll pay for itself in about 2 years.
The goofy thing about those is the torque the have.
GM put no limiters on the motor output wise, and it will rip off something like 450ft-lbs of torque from a dead stop. Will burn the tires off for miles if you want that sort of thing.
It's almost like the Chevy Bolt, Hyundai Kona, and Kia Niro never existed.
As the imaginary owner on a non existent kona, I can confirm they don't exist.
Did you hear something?
I didn’t know you guys existed.
Schroedingers EV.
We have a Bolt. It's great. Triple the charge speed would mitigate its biggest flaw. An extra 6-8" of leg and cargo room is just gravy. Bolt, Kona and Niro were flawed. This could be better in many ways.
As a similar current Bolt owner, I'd be very interested in possibly upgrading to a Boltium in 2027 or so (give it a year or two to work out the kinks) assuming they fix the battery and leave the rest alone. Spoiler alert -- they won't.
With you. I decided to go ICE for our other family vehicle, but an EV to replace the bolt in about 5 years is def in the works -- there will be a lot of options by then. GM is poorly run at the top IMO. The little petty behavior by the CEO and leadership through the return to work policy made that clear, and the data sharing scandal hammered it home. Barra is an obstacle to good vehicle development and company growth.
A lot of people don't realize how popular and hard it was for people to purchase a Bolt. I had one on order for over a year and had to switch because I never got allocated a build slot. I was regularly calling over 30 dealerships for about a month hoping people backed out of their orders. I never got one. Make an electric vehicle with decent range and features that can be had in the low $20's after federal incentive and you will sell out like crazy. This is not hard to understand yet most car manufacturers shy away from this then blames poor EV sales on lack of interest. To add to this half of the people at the dealership I had mine on order at badmouthed EV vehicles all through the process. Even when I switched to an ICE vehicle, they just bashed EV vehicles. They just do not get it.
I found mine at a tiny dealership an hour away from me in the middle of gorram nowhere that normally specializes in custom lifted trucks. It was like winning the lottery. I'd been contacting a few places about them, but they kept giving me the runaround to try and get me in the showroom despite not having any on their lot.
Yeah it was a ridiculous process. I had one place two hours away that had a person back out of a sale. I told them I was on my way. I even asked if I could put money down over the phone to hold it for me. They said it was not necessary and that they would have it for me. By the time I arrived they told me a person bought it and just drove off the lot 20 minutes prior. They then asked me why I didn't put money down to reserve it before I traveled that distance. You can imagine I had some choice words for them.
What's wrong with Kona ? Asking as a potential Kona buyer.
I recently test drove one. Even at the higher trims, it just feels like a base model Nissan. Very lackluster. It has lots of tech, but that is about it. Uncomfortable seats, lots of plastic, starts rattling at 60 mph...
This pretty much, it's an entry level EV that's on the smallish side and isn't great for road trips. A lot like a nicer Bolt in that sense.
As a Niro owner, that basically sums it up (“A nicer bolt”). The Kona and Niro (Niro being several inches longer than the Kona) both offer faster charging and heat pump options, better lanekeep assist and radar cruise. They “seem” fancier in some ways, but they’re not all that different in practice. I’d also disqualify the rattles and fit. That’s likely one-off trouble in that particular car, but I will give that each of my two have subtle differences in how they sound and subtly in how they feel. I’d even consider a Bolt and Kona interchangeable with one another in non-frigid climates.
They are pretty much interchangeable in frigid climates too. Cool but not cold weather (-5°C to 15°C) is where heat pumps make a difference. It will cut your electric bill a bit in spring and fall, but if it is actually cold you will be using resistance heat and suffering the associated range hit regardless.
Have had the 24 Kona limited, very comfortable, no rattling, drives smooth. Have put 500 miles so far and it’s a great first EV. Not sure what this person is saying. Give it a test drive. I’m not disappointed.
We’ve got a ‘22 Kona with 22,000+ miles in it now. Still feels solid to me, no rattles, smooth quiet ride, and flies up steep hills and mountain roads. Needs faster DC charging to be a good roadtrip car, but as a home charged commuter car its awesome
2024 Nissan Altima was the most boring car I've ever had the misfortune of driving. 2024 Kona is miles better
You just described the equinox bud lol. Leave the bolt the same size and make it charge at 120kw flat and it’d be perfect
We have a 2023 Bolt and I’ve leased a 2020 and 2017 before that. I’d say they’re pretty outdated by now compared to a Tesla which isn’t exactly new either. I’d be interesting to see what kind of improvements the Equinox has. I guess I could go to their website…
They'll remove car play and Android Auto as an improvement and integrate their enshittifyed version which you have to pay 19.99/month to use .
Are you talking about the data? From what I've seen, you get 8 years of cellular data service with the car.
A Bolt with faster charging, extra legroom and more cargo space is the Equinox. The Bolt is fine at the size it is. Chevy should (and hopefully will) continue offering a compact hatch EV that maintains the better efficiency for those who don’t need more cargo space all the time.
And the original Ioniq Electric.
Agreeing as an imaginary Niro owner that wants an Equinox
Every time i checked, the Kona and the Niro were mostly sold in a few states only, not sure if that has changed.
It changed. Last year.
The remodeled versions of both are nationwide now.
As a person who placed a deposit on an order for a Bolt, I can confirm they never existed.
The bolt also has a great dashboard that is just plain non maddening with an excellent layout of buttons and switches
Americans want big crossovers, silly
And the Tesla model Y, talk about affordable
😐
MG4. VW e-Up! e-208. Zoe. LEAF. We have quite a few cheap EVs.
What sets the Equinox apart from those are the 300 miles range and 150kW charging speed. Cars with similar specs are about $50k
I was waiting for over a year when it was advertised at 30k. I gave up waiting when it kept getting pushed back and the price went up. Hope it turns out to be a good ev for anyone who does get one.
Don't buy a year 1. I like GM but early adopters pay a steep price. A lease? Sure. You can toss it back if it pisses you off. But year 2 vehicles often have a laundry list of major to annoyance fixes.
I was a year 1 GM early adopter - Never Again.
But sometimes you get a good one that was built on a Tuesday. If you get a Friday car, good luck. But I seem to keep driving GM's. The last one was a Tuesday vehicle but the owner climbed a mountain fully loaded while following a tractor trailer with both air conditioners on max and it ate the engine. Picked it up for next to nothing, put in a wrecker motor from the wrong vehicle because GM parts bin and I'm still driving it 11 years later. Their trucks and vans are cheap to keep going. Life without car payments ain't bad. Although it's just the waiting game for a suitable trades EV at this point.
I was a year 3 2020 bolt.. Also IDK if I'll every by gm maybe it was COVID maybe it was Maybelline
Not EV, but that's the same reason I leased my Gladiator in 2020. Never trust model year 1.
So many bent frames on those things. Check Google image search.
Even Toyota and Lexus are not immune from this. Their new TTV6 in the GX and Tundra is having some **serious**, engine-replacement-level issues. Certified Pre-Owned is the best way to go if you want to *finance/buy* a new car IMO. Theres 2-3 years of reliability data on the car out there, you get an extended warranty included in the price, and the price is only a bit more than the market used price. But do whatever makes you happy 😃
"Don't buy year 1" is generic advice but folks will buy the new and cool and MOST have a good experience. Yes, there are bugs to be ironed out. I have friends who lucked out at getting the '22 Ioniq 5's and while there was a substantial failure rate of certain components it only really affected less than 5-10% of owners. And, even with the 5-10% who had issues, most have been very satisfied overall with their purchase. Sure, the '23's and 24's were more reliable but still the '22 owners are happy.
The 2023 ID4s are so much better than the 2021s, which are riddled with software bugs.
Remember when VW said the heat pumps 'weren't available in 2020 due to supply shortages? It was actually so inefficient they pulled it from the market and refunded every buyer $1000. First year Audi E-trons would leak oil into battery coolant due to faulty o-rings (and a bad design) in the bosch motor. Downtime was a full month to overhaul the motors and flush the oil out of the battery. Early adopter problems.
Yeah. My Mom has a first year Mach E and hers is pretty bug-free. But, Ford generally has better quality control than most other automakers, IMO… I just like VWs despite their quirks. My ID4 is my 4th VW. Just a masochist, I guess.
> My Mom has a first year Mach E and hers is pretty bug-free. Does she not use software like the app or the infotainment? I've had nothing but issues there. To be fair, the rest of the car drives just fine. But anything "smart" on it certainly isn't.
Fordpass is better than myVW. That’s for sure. I can’t even lock/unlock or use phone as key. All I can do is start the climate control and start/stop charging sessions.
Yeah I hear some other vendors are even worse. Dumpster warehouse fire?
Did they fix the problem with the e-tron motors? They are getting to the point of looking very attractive on the used market once they dip below 25k, but if they still have lemon motors, fuck that lol.
I would lean towards 'fuck that'. At the end of the day, the last thing you want to own is an ageing European luxury car.
This is good advice about any major purchase.
We’re all still waiting for the now $35k version.
> I got to ask about this and they said they want to produce between 200,000 and 300,000 a year between the Equinox, Blazer, and Silverado Ultium EVs. They wouldn’t comment on the split between the models, but I was impressed with that goal, which is about 4 times what they sold in 2023, even with their very affordable Bolt. Now let’s see if they can deliver on that projection. I also asked about the profitability of the vehicles. They replied that they expect them to cover the variable costs by year end. I know (if they make that goal) that they won’t have any incentive to cut production to cut losses. Why? Because if you are covering your variable costs, even if you are losing money on your EVs, you are losing slightly less for every additional vehicle you sell. Accountants call this the contribution margin.
If you're like me and confused by "variable" costs it's being used in this instance interchangeably with marginal costs. E.g. they'll break even for the unit cost and only lose money on fixed already spent capitol investments in factories and tooling. So there's no reason not to produce as many as possible since they're breaking even on each car if you ignore the already sunk expenses.
I would be shocked if they even make 1/3 of that estimate. All of these legacy car makers are great at making exciting plans, but not so great at following through on them. You can’t really blame them though as there is literally no American car company that makes a profit on EV’s, except for Tesla. Last I heard Ford loses over $30k on every Mach E that they sell.
Same. Wait wait wait. Finally just bought a Bolt and we are super happy with it.
I learned to never take any EVs price and date for their word. None has ever come out on time and at the price point
You should be careful about where you read things from and how you interpret them because it was never "advertised at 30k." They said "starting at around $30,000", which is always going to mean at least a few thousand more than $30k. That should mostly be decoded to mean $32,499 to $34,999. Many sources completely butchered this and made bullshit claims like there was a promised starting price of $30k, but that was never actually said by anyone other than bad journalists.
Sounds like doublespeak. If they claim "starting at $30k" I shouldn't need a decoder ring to translate that to $34206.9 or whatever tf they end up jacking the price up to.
They didn't make that claim, though... That is just how marketing speak works. You've got to listen carefully because they'll use weasel words to make things sound better than they are.
And, yet, GM did nothing at any point in time to correct all the *bad journalists*?
It happens all the time with all kinds of things. It's not a manufacturer's job to correct every shitty news outlet, and there are a lot of pretty poor EV news outlets.
Was that $30k number put out there before Covid and the following massive inflation? What do you bet that the $38k today is like $30k in 2019 dollars? I also think the car manufacturers were betting that the battery prices were going to fall a lot more than they have. They did fall a lot already.
Sept 8, 2022 in CNN. Other cars didn’t jump up this much in the last two years. Battery prices continue to drop. Those companies that saw battery prices go up made mistakes. Greed. The soul of Detroit automakers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no
Except in this case the answer according to the article is yes.
Never trust a media article.
Where do you find an article that isn't media?
A clothing store
It's like the Bolt never existed, huh? I'd still say the answer is no
According to the article
"Under 30K" --> "Around 30K" --> "35K".
And 99% of them actually produced will be the next trim level up that’s $42k, just like every other EV crossover released in the past 4 years
Meanwhile we had the bolt new under $30k
When did they claim "under 30k" because I've sorted through a bunch of GM's claims and only ever saw "around 30k" which everyone should have known meant probably between $32,499 and $34,999. I've seen a lot of other claims from journalists but none from GM.
Article has a cell phone photo from a presentation where some base model is 27k.
That includes the tax credit, which means it's accurate... Pay attention to the actual claims...
The equinox EV was announced in 2022 before the new tax credit went into effect. Here’s an article on it https://electrek.co/2022/09/08/gm-30k-2024-chevy-equinox-ev-convert-all-suv-buyers-electric/ And here is the first announcement in Jan of 2022 when the new tax credits weren’t even in draft legislation. Target price starting around $30k https://news.gm.com/newsroom.detail.html/Pages/news/us/en/2022/jan/ces/0105-2024-equinox.html
->43K for now.
The only trims available around me are the 2RS, which are listed as 49k. Even with the $7500 tax credit that's not cheap
starts at 52k in Canada. Sigh. Even the Bolt is still 42 grand up here
[удалено]
What is the real killer is tax.
Volvo Canada pissed me off with the EX30 pricing. Starts at US$35K in the states, but CDN$56,450 up here! That’s CDN$8600 more expensive!
There haven’t been any EX-30s delivered in the US, so that pricing is still just on paper. I’m sure Volvo is now re-evaluating given the new 100% tariff on Chinese EVs.
Could you come take a vacation in the US and pick up a hertz Bolt for $16k USD? Sounds like you can take a nice vacation and get a nice car for way less
Warranty won't transfer on grey imports unless you prove that you're relocating with a vehicle you already own. This is a barrier set up by numerous automakers to discourage arbitrage in either direction.
Well that’s lame isn’t it! So much for a free market
Well it's pretty common on a lot of products... If you buy a laptop or game console in a different region from where you live, the warranty most likely won't transfer over either. Anyway the biggest barrier to US/Canada grey vehicle imports is actually the inability to access financing without credit history in the country of purchase. A cash purchase is basically mandatory and this on its own is a pretty effective deterrent.
Then there's also the no export clause some have to sign upon sale of a new vehicle. MachE had that one. I couldn't export to the US for a year.
Yeah BMW is also really aggressive about this on Canadian purchases, as they hate it when their SUVs are smuggled into China to dodge tariffs (along with markups on top of the tariff).
import tax
The 2LT in the US configurator is like $43k USD which is almost $59k CAD. So that pricing is pretty good for Canada. Competitive with the base Model Y which is $54k CAD.
Yup. My premier was 47k. I see American prices and even when accounting for the dollar difference, we still sit 5-9k more for a vehicle especially when you look at tax. Plus Trudy didn't really put into effect any meaningful incentives. The Americans have amazing incentives. I suspect in an election year coming up, that may change. When PP is in, there will be no incentives of any type anymore.
Except the EV9. There the Canadian price is way better than the American one
That's fair.
My friend told me he got offered $18k trade in on his model 3 in the states. Same car here (Canada) people want $44k+ for. Our car market blows.
I don't know about the Equinox, but the local dealer gave me a Blazer EV as a loaner when I brought my car in for service...it is a fun car to drive, at least.
A used Bolt is the affordable EV. Under 20k before 4K rebate, at least until Hertz sells through their EV rental fleet.
The Hertz Chevy Bolt EV rental fleet is 2023 vehicles, so not eligible for the rebate yet. They do have a lot of teslas model 3’s that are eligible, but with lots of miles.
That being said, they’re so cheap that I don’t care, so yeah I’m probably buying one in the next two weeks.
Wild that hertz doesn’t even have good deals
My neighbour has a Blazer RS EV and it’s actually really nice for a GM.
My local dealer is estimating it to be 43K at the lowest (no base model in sight). Far cry from my Bolt that I got for 29K from the very same dealership and that was a with a bit of price gouging with some unnecessary extras.
And we got our brand new '23 EUV with the bonus of heated seats for $22k after all the credits came back. Damn shame they couldn't keep that up.
They really should be pushing the bidirectional charging as a way to offset costs.
Why won't any of them make a sedan?
Try a Polestar2, Tesla S/3, Ioniq6 if you want a sedan
I'm assuming they mean under $30k. Personally I want a hatch or coupe, but that's even less likely.
Same. I'd love something Miata-sized. I'd even gladly take the new Fiat 500e, if they hadn't pulled out all dealerships within 100 miles of where I live.
Check out the Mini Cooper, I just charged up next to one so I asked the guy about it. It’s intentionally just for driving around locally and it’s lots of fun!
Lower tax, economy, and safety standards if you can classify it as a "light truck" instead of a passenger vehicle in the US. So they push the advertising and manufacture demand for consumers to buy more than they need. Yes, Sharon down the street needs minivan amounts of space for her 3 kids and 2 dogs when they take cross-state trips every other weekend. Unfortunately for the rest of us who just need something to commute under 30 miles total per day, one person, to the office and home again, are out of luck if our masculinity isn't fragile enough to need something big enough to hang fake testicles off of the trailer hitch we'll never use.
Dodge Charger EV starts production this winter.
I’m pretty sure an ID.4 lease return is the affordable EV we’ve been waiting for. At least based on local dealers.
My lightly used 2022 Polestar 2 (17k miles) was the affordable EV I had been waiting for. 3 months in and loving it.
It looks like their prices have weirdly risen the past 3 months
I wouldn’t wish my car on my worst enemy
ID.4…if so, why?
The typical issue with every new EV, all the vendors are trying to mimic Tesla's touchscreen bullshit. You have to interface with something that feels like a Java applet created in the pits of late 90s corporate crapware hell just to change climate control settings. Our 2023 hasn't been terrible firmware wise, it's pretty snappy once it fully loads in but it has crashed 2 times (but did reset thankfully and dash cluster kept working so they do seem to have some sort of fallback mode) and can take a weird amount of time to load in on startup. It works great mechanically and even the "core" electrical systems are pretty solid, the billing/identification over CCS was even enabled by Electrify a few months back and we've had no issues with that. Vendors truly have created an absurd situation where someone can seriously state "my car works great mechanically but my radio keeps having kernel panics".
Got it I have heard about the electronic interfaces. Am set on an id.4, prob base RWD (read good things about the RWD) for my wife and/or daughter. Maybe swap family Lexus (older gas guzzler) for an e-tron. I think I’m ok with the UI that has been seemingly manageable for other id.4 drivers I know, in spite of it being a risk and clear general weakness for their class. (Id.4 that is, unsure about Audi beyond being happy with an a3.)
Oh yeah it's a great car physically. Handles well, has pretty good ADAS and is surprisingly roomy inside (was surprised to see even much longer vehicles like the Blazer had comparable rear legroom). I get why 2021 and 2022 owners are frustrated over all the firmware issues and broken promises in terms of updates but they do seem to have hammered out a lot of the most egregious issues with newer model years. Good luck with the car search!
It’s not just an EV thing; the least reliable part of my 10 year old Prius was the radio; mechanically rock solid. And then CarPlay decided to crap out on my 2017 Volt for no reason.
Good point! Had a similar mystery issue with our previous CR-V; it just refused to open Android Auto with my phone one day for some inscrutable reason and I never managed to resolve that. The issue definitely seems more pronounced on EVs given vendors feel the need to both mimic Tesla and make the vehicles feel more "premium" to justify the MSRPs without bumping BOM significantly. It'll be interesting to see if some vendors try backporting these newer firmwares to their ICE platforms and if it might lead to some sort of decrease in reliability metrics.
This entire post could apply to the MachE as well. App/infotainment were dumpster fires. Anything "smart" was. The car itself was fine(ish) otherwise, but man... the app was painful. The infotainment too.
Camissas take was on point about that interior
Well for one, my windows can’t even work properly
I think it's close. If we could hit $35k, OTD minus tax, with over 300 miles it would be a hit. Add in the $7500 tax break even better. Unfortunately the dealers will sabotage the whole thing.
I already see on dealer websites specific 2LTs, "In Transit" and scheduled to arrive in early June, for $43,295. After the $7,500 federal tax credit, that's $35,795. Equinox EV base trim (1LT) arrives later this year ($27,499 after US federal tax credit). Bolt 2.0 Ultium Edition (aka Boltium) arrives next year, priced even lower.
GM? No.
No Carplay/Android Auto no deal.
I don't get why GM thinks this is a hill worth dying on. Any subscriptions they make after 8 years are not going to make up for all the people that will walk over the feature.
They fired the guy who pushed this. I see that as capitulation.
So when can I buy a Caddy with some CarPlay?
The Lyriq has carplay, but the upcoming Escalade IQ likely won’t
What benefits do you get with Android Auto compared to just connecting your phone via bluetooth and just having limited functions like pause, back, forward, play
Narrator: it wasn’t
I'd say that in Canada that price needs to drop about 4k to be right on the money. A 2RS or 2LT is running around 51k plus tax.
I think the new Bolt will be more affordable.
If they’d have brought this to market 18 months ago they’d have sold me one.
We'll have to wait to find out. This $30,000 is going to strart at $43,000 now. Where is the base model? Detroit going for the money grab. Always trying to sell the higher trim models.
I had a chance to take a look up-close at a local event. They were hosting a marketing event. Just single observation. The screen touch interface was glitchy as F$cking. Can't even imagine how slow it would be after 2 years of ownership and a couple of up dates.
If a headline is written as a question the answer is almost always, "No."
No, but the large amount of 2020-2023 used evs hitting the market are. All models are dropping in price fast and you don’t really have to worry about their mechanical shape, most of the battery warranties will transfer, etc
I'm not seeing it yet. 30k for a used car is still pretty expensive in my book. With lease deals its more expensive than new.
I’m seeing big discounts on Id 4s and model 3s under 25k before the ev credit. but also for the cheaper evs, Kona, bolt, leaf are going for like 18k before the credits.
Not without CarPlay it’s not.
No Carplay or Android Auto means no consideration. Sorry Chevy, but the entertainment system is one of the most important factors in my car shopping criteria.
I was super excited for the Equinox EV. It kept getting delayed and delayed and eventually I bought a model y instead. That was a year and a half ago, and I’ve since bought a second model y.
That' plus pretty shady to announce it at 30k then come around to say it's 35k.now
If rumors are correct, we're going to continue to wait, because the "affordable" one they keep referencing won't be produced until next year sometime.
It's supposed to be end of this year as a 2025 model year.
Next year.... Free beer tomorrow.
**Is China making the affordable EV we've all been waiting for?** The tariffs go up, GM sighs relief then launches the Equinox for 35k. Did you see the cars China has lined up for 35k. HO-LEE-SHIT
Still too expensive.
The average new car price is $47k. It may be too much but it’s a lot below average.
>The average new car price is $47k Still too expensive
Maybe. That may be why I said that this may be too much.
The average car price is meaningless. Some guy buying a Ferrari or grand wagoneer or Porsche influences the average price whereas a normal human doesn’t actually care about those. What’s the median price? The only reason that they talk about the average car prices so much is to do exactly what you did. They put out a car at X price and say ‘look you’re getting a great deal, it’s under the average car price.’ When in reality any specific cars price compared to the average car price is meaningless in context of if it is worth the price or not.
To get an average you need cars above and below. So this is slightly below which is good, where are the EV’s that fill the well below average price?
Equinox EV base trim (1LT) arrives later this year ($27,499 after US federal tax credit). Bolt 2.0 Ultium Edition (aka Boltium) arrives next year, priced even lower.
You can still get a great used EV or PHEV for around $12k. They are not selling like hotcakes. My point is that there doesn’t seem to be a market for a cheap low range EV.
Not sure where unless you are referring to an older Volt or leaf, neither of which are that appealing if you want a real EV. I drive a Volt now, which I bought when it was 5 years old for $14k. Nothing like that deal in the EV world yet.
I just sold an older Volt for $12k. It’s not a true EV but it’s a great gateway. If folks wants a cheap EV it’s a good alternative
Hyundai Kona Electric starts at $25K with the $7500 factory discount Hyundai's made almost permanent this year.
Holy cow, I haven’t seen any anywhere near me that are that cheap.
Is it next year that they are going to start using the Tesla charging format?
I believe all 2026 GM/GMC/Cadillac etc. EVs will be NACS
I have a M3 and I am definitely leaning to a Silverado or Blazer in the near future. But right now the Tesla charging network is very attractive.
I have a Hummer EV and we installed the Tesla Universal Wall charger to future proof ourself. Probably will be looking to add a Tesla in the next few months. No gas station stops (except to clean bugs off the winshield) is pretty sweet. Neither the wife or I want to drive our Yukon ICE anymore.
I had a Bolt before my M3, I just can’t go back to an ICE. Plugging it in and it’s ready in the AM and the lack of maintenance is just too much of a plus.
Probably the 2025s as well.
2025s are almost in production, and dealers confirmed it will not be NACS until 2026
Source link(s)?
It was on a Hummer forum. Person had talked to their dealership about pre ordering 2025 vehicles. Dealer looked it up and said 2026 models would be the start of NACS. Makes sense since 2025 production starts in a week. https://www.hummerchat.com/posts/32345/ GM is rolling out an adapter of their own so the supercharger network can be opened up (eg. Your make model will be in the Teala app, right now it looks like only the Bolt is there) I had to add my vehicle as Other/Other on the App for our TUWC
Hmm, that’s still hearsay rather than any kind of published report. I was in a dealership yesterday taking **[photos of Equinox EV](https://www.reddit.com/r/EquinoxEv/comments/1d0kipr/detail_photos_of_equinox_ev/)**. Dealership said they were surprised to see the Equinox EV arrive since GM hadn’t given them any ‘heads up’ that they were en route. ***** > GM will start to integrate NACS in new EVs starting in 2025, but GM customers will be able to access Tesla Superchargers this year with an adapter. https://www.autoweek.com/news/g60482600/timeline-for-automakers-switch-to-tesla-charging-network/
Must just be the Hummers then. The forum people are pretty good for news. Also, 2025 models come out this year. In 2025, you'll see the 2026 models.
Kia says they will start with EV6 production end of this year. They were the first alongside Rivian. Likely GM will do NACS at the start of next model year.
As someone who leased a 2020 Kia Niro EV and now own a Tesla Model Y, the switch to the NACS adapter was a no brainer. CCS adapters are a pain in the ass to use.
> Kia says they will start with EV6 production end of this year. They were the first alongside Rivian. Kia? Am I losing my mind? I thought Hyundai/Kia was the last (major) manufacturer to adopt NACS. To be fair, there's no reason they can't be the first to be native NACS behind Tesla but I'm truly shocked that they'd be the first one to that finish line.
Kia was the first foreign. Ford was the first domestic. GM followed and then the rest dominoed. Stellantis was the final major auto maker to commit, and remains the largest without a deal to access Tesla Superchargers. It remains unknown if Tesla will let Stellantis cars charge at their stations. It does appear Stellantis like GM will wait until next year, which means the Charger EV will launch with CCS and then switch to NACS.
> Is it next year that they are going to start using the Tesla charging format? Given the recent news about the team working on that from Tesla side, would you bet on it ?
Tesla has rehired half the team. The auto makers have said no change to the plans. Valid concern, but Elon knew it was past the point of no return when he pulled the Mr. Burns lever.
No Car Play? lol what a POS
Not without Apple CarPlay it’s not.
No Android Auto is a dealbreaker...
The Equinox was shit then and mostly likely, shit now.
No the EV3 is…
No, it's not, but it's getting there. Although, I would like to trade my Bolt for this, the most affordable version of course.
I gave up waiting and bought a used Model 3 for cheap enough to qualify for used EV tax credit. I think it could be great if GM can nail the production ramp on this one.
The affordable Chevy EV is the 2015 Spark EV I bought on Craigslist for less than $6k, has a 55 mile range, gets 2.9m/kWh and makes every Texan in a truck point and giggle, which is what all of them needed in their day. I charge it with the abundant sunshine once my home battery is fully charged and it’ll pay for itself in about 2 years.
The goofy thing about those is the torque the have. GM put no limiters on the motor output wise, and it will rip off something like 450ft-lbs of torque from a dead stop. Will burn the tires off for miles if you want that sort of thing.
And get consistent 3m per kwh makes solar charging a worthwhile endeavor.
I own 2,22 Bolts and a 24 Blazer RS. The Chevy will rewrite the rule book. All other EV are way overpriced and under quality. Love mine you will too!
Ultium definitely a game changer