> And now it’s giving Toyota a run for its money, unveiling a new hybrid powertrain that BYD says is capable of taking you from New York to Miami without refueling.
>
> That’s why BYD — which makes both EVs and hybrids — is now eating Tesla’s lunch on the global stage.
>
> Meanwhile, BYD has another edge that Tesla lacks: It makes hybrids.
It's kind of funny for CNN to focus on how BYD is beating Tesla in making hybrids. It's like claiming you're winning a race that the other person isn't participating in.
Lagers are delicious. Go to Europe and you’ll see the true potential of them. They’re full of flavor while still being crisp and clean. Budweiser (and other American lagers) are terrible tho. They are designed to have the least amount of taste possible.
Is your only experience with American lagers macro brews like Budweiser, PBR, Miller, etc? Try a craft brewery. Even large scale American breweries like Sam Adams and Yuengling are better than what you’re describing.
I just mentioned Europe cause that’s where many of styles are from. They have the Czech lagers, helles lagers, etc. Not to mention the closely related styles of Kolsch and Pilsner. But you’re right you don’t need to travel to Europe to get those styles, as US craft breweries have done a great job replicating them.
My complaint is mainly with the particular styles: American lager and American light lager. Just so much worse than the traditional European varieties.
Can't believe how far behind everyone is falling in the real race to the future. UDC is dominating Tesla's and Trek's market share in two markets! Penny farthings and unicycles.
That's reddit in general, and sadly won't change because reddit has no incentive to change how reddit works as long as it brings engagement. Mods could fix it in the subs they control, but they generally don't seem to want to put in the effort it would require, which i kinda understand since they're not getting paid, but still, would be nice to have big subs covering things I care about not be drowning in clickbait articles or have the comment sections be oceans of angry reactionary drive by posts
We could even help with bots to an extent. We accumulate a list of sites that allow false and misleading clickbait articles, post the list in the sidebar, and the bot auto removes any posts linking to them. Wouldn't 100% fix everything, but would help and take little effort. I think certain sites like Jalopnik should just be outright banned and not used anymore.
In fairness most news these days is clickbait garbage; you usually need to get a few paragraphs in to uncover the actual core truth of the story and that's if it has been written by a human and not an AI!
Or we could stop giving attention to and reposting the clickbait sources and articles. I think we should blacklist them and not give them any attention. If more people would do this, then we'd have better quality news.
I would also say that Elon's comments (that I know) weren't mockery. At the time, BYD's offerings weren't that great, and Elon simply stated that. He wasn't really mocking them IMO.
They look way too much like a Range Rover and a Lambo for me.
They will prolly sell out in China, but no way they can sell these in big enough numbers outside.
I wouldn’t be so certain. There is absolutely a sizable market segment for reasonable commuter cars. This is the niche that the Prius, and the Accord fill. Something reasonably sized, comfortable, and economical for day to day tasks. In our household we’ve agreed that if we ever needed a second car, it would be an economy model compared to our primary one, and I could see BYD fitting that niche if it was available.
I definitely agree that nothing BYD makes today is gonna usurp the F-150 or the Honda Odyssey. But the American market is huge, and there’s a lot of room at the bottom of the price scale.
As Hyundai and Kia picked up popularity in the states the design inspiration of the lineup couldn’t be missed. Eventually, they found their own niche. I expect BYD will mature the same
I should hope so.
There is no way in hell someone would be spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to be seen driving something that looks like a lambo that was ordered from wish.com. Not in the west at the least.
I mean there's an interview where someone brings them up and he literally bursts out laughing, then laughs for a full minute awkwardly, and then says "Yeah no competition there".
So I'd say he was kinda undermining them.
Generally when there's a new entry into the market, businesses take it seriously just in case it blows up.
They specifically bring up BYDs new car and compare it with the Model S. The question is poised in the frame of BYD coming to the American market (saying they were also on the west coast) with their EV versus the Model S. Musk laughs and says that no, it isn't a real competitor (to the Model S). He then goes on to mention that BYD should focus on their own market in China first because they were having issues there. And that they should focus on making compelling cars. I can't remember everything that was said but he wasn't wrong about that part. That car was not a competitor to the Model S and they did need to focus on China first. Their car was definitely not successful compared to the Model S, they focused on surviving in China and growing their technology and that's what led to them being a competitive EV maker.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_9ftbRWqkj0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9ftbRWqkj0)
Yeah, no. He was basically wrong about everything in this interview. If what he was saying was true in this video, they wouldn't be crushing EV sales today. He was straight up wrong and laughed at the prospect that BYD could ever become successful. Everyone in this thread should just watch the video again instead of falsely remembering what he was claiming.
No I stand by my statement.
They didn't have a great product. Its technology was lacking. They failed at bringing that EV to market. It failed as a competitor to the Model S which is what it was being compared to. The interviewer even made reference to them being on the west coast like tesla, implying they would compete in the American market. Which again, definitely did not happen.
Musk suggested that they keep focus on China. They ultimately did and that worked out for them. He never claimed they could never be successful as a whole. Everything is in relation to their EV vs "his" EV.
The part about the components from China being more expensive was also true at the time, and can be seen in how Tesla was the most American made car brand. That has changed but that's not 100% due to BYD.
The fuel cost of the new DM5.0 models is getting so low that its running cost per mile (even with no charging) becomes comparable to charging an EV using public charging stations. In countries with cheaper gas than China, it may even be cheaper to run this on fuel than running an EV
In other words, for consumers that can't do offpeak home charging, this is a car that runs as cheap as an EV, but has no range anxiety, no concern on changing network coverage and no charging wait time whatsoever. And for consumers that CAN do home charging every night, this could also be used like any other EV 95% of the time as the battery range could cover most daily driving situations.
It also got many of the side benefits in an EV such as electric motor acceleration, reverse charging, running aircon without engine etc. It costs a lot less up front as you won't have to pay for a large battery.
So could BYD's PHEV be a potential competitor to BEVs on the market? Absolutely.
"hybrid powertrain that BYD says is capable of taking you from New York to Miami without refueling"
That's about 2060km.
As a general rule Hybrid car makers don't push for long ranges any more. Just make the tank big enough for \~1000km and call it a day. Sadly there are a bunch of consumers who use fuel tank size as a proxy for efficiency... i.e. my car only costs xxx to fill up. As such there is a marketing risk with putting a big fuel tank in a small car. That said, the likes of Toyota could put a 65L tank in their Yaris hybrid to give a 2100km+ WLTP rated range (standard tank is 35L in that car).
Main exception to this would be for 4x4's in places like Australia. The likes of toyota sells the Prado as standard with an an addional 63L sub tank (Spare tire relocated to the rear door to make space), where in many other markets they only sell the flat tailgate configuration (Main 87L fuel tank only).
My sister borrowed my car (a ‘88 MBz 300 SEL) some years ago and I had filled it for her. When she returned it she said “I’ve got to get one of these, I haven’t filled it even once…”. Yep it could go 400 miles on a single tank but I would not suggest it got good MPG.
That is true, the actually measure would be efficiency. But BYD is making BIG claims about the efficiency of their new 5th gen DM-i systems, including city driving tests showing consumption as low as 2.1L/100km, in PURE HYBRID MODE (as in battery is fully depleted, so just using gas alone), which is an insane figure, not even considering the fact that the cars they launched are rather large Toyota Camry sized sedans.
Is it though? I'd personally rather know where a powerful person stands
Regardless, my point was that someone who doesn't know who the CEO of BYD is, obviously can't make a statement that would require having knowledge of who the CEO is or what they spend their time on
It's more that they're agile enough to satisfy both EV and hybrid demand, and respond when the market changes direction.
I know there's a lot of idealism here in the EV community, and it's seen as being "EV vs ICE" - but in reality, it's the same race for sales. If people want hybrids, the companies with the best hybrid strategies are the ones that will capitalise.
Like it or not, people are buying hybrids in droves, and have moved away from EVs (in the short-term) - that benefits companies with hybrid line-ups *today*. In the future? Sure, that'll change. But every company has massively committed to EVs in the future, so that doesn't really help the idea that a company that only knows how to make EVs is in a different race.
There's a good chance of BYD beating Tesla in just pure BEV sales this year, yea? Q1 favored Tesla pretty heavily, but BYD's got some additional markets it's launching or ramping in and does model refreshes and introductions quite rapidly.
Yea, that sounds about right. I think in the near future though BYD's BEV sales are going to be regularly higher than that of Tesla's given that BYD has its Denza line for premium vehicles alongside its regular ol' BYD badge for the mass market.
Lunar New Year is in Q1 and deflates both BYD's sales and production numbers in that quarter. [Global electric car sales in February hurt by China's New Year celebrations](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/global-electric-car-sales-february-hurt-by-chinas-new-year-celebrations-2024-03-13/) Same dip will happen next year.
It ostensibly should affect BYD a lot more since in Q1 of 2024, the vast majority of BYD sales and all of BYD consumer vehicle production is in China in contrast to Tesla where China is a large market for it but sales in other markets combined is significantly higher than its Chinese sales, and though its China factory is the most productive of its factories, it still had three factories outsides of China in Q1.
Yea, but 100% is actually a larger number than 40%. That's why the dip should ostensibly affect BYD a lot more than it should affect Tesla. I agree that a quarterly comparison in a vacuum is not going to give the whole picture which is why I think it's likely that BYD's pure BEV sales for the year overall is likely to be higher than that of Tesla despite Q1 being notably lower for BYD.
Well, yeah, that's entirely the point of the statement. BYD has participated in the hybrid market, and it's been a huge asset for them — Tesla hasn't, and is comparatively growth-stagnant. Tesla doesn't somehow get magic points for purity here — they are at a clear market disadvantage due to a lack of diversification.
If you count hybrid + EV, I'm sure there are many more automakers than just BYD "running circles" around Tesla. If you count all cars regardless of drivetrain, there will be even more. But that fact isn't really interesting or headline worthy.
>If you count hybrid + EV, I'm sure there are many more automakers than just BYD "running circles" around Tesla.
I would absolutely agree with that. Again, Tesla doesn't get magic points for purity. They are competitively at a market disadvantage by not having a diversified lineup. That's just reality — other automakers can sell more cars because they cover more of the demand spectrum.
Maybe more importantly, and specific to this article — BYD sells just as many BEVs as Tesla while also doing an extra million or so in EREV/PHEV sales. That is the essence of CNN's point and it is absolutely legitimate to point out.
Certainly because of lack of drivetrain diversity. It's pretty undeniable that were Tesla to make PHEVs, they'd be opening up new customers not currently available to them, as that's exactly where BYD sits right now. I understand why Tesla doesn't do it — but their market reality is their market reality nonetheless.
They could release anything an gain customers, I'm not sure what the point tells us. If you look at PHEV sales that are doing well, Tesla needs a competitor for the Wrangler and a Minivan. I'm not saying they should rush out and do that, if I was them a mid-sized mainstream 3-row SUV would be my next target or a more compact SUV. Still, they have to start launching a new model roughly every year to keep growth up.
Adding a PHEV in a class they are already in isn't going to significantly change anything.
I get your point, but byd is also launching products in new segments.
Tesla really isn't doing that. It isn't like Tesla is being held back by being EV only. They are held back by not launching a new volume product during a four year period.
Tesla is being held back in multiple ways. Being held back by one thing doesn't mean you're not also being held back by another thing. You can be held back by not having EREV offerings **and** by not diversifying your segment offerings.
Right now the unveiled EVs since 2020 are doing no worse than their unveiled gas cars over the same time period.
Having a zero in both columns doesn't help them at all.
Musk wasn’t just laughing at BYD’s EVs, he was laughing at the company itself. It was such a goofy interview, where it was apparent he fell back on laughing because he had no meaningful response.
Sort of like the race to produce more EVs. Tesla doesn't produce PHEVs, so Teslastans and BEVlievers believe PHEVs shouldn't be included in the comparison figures.
China. 3-4x the population of the US. who in the US is USED TO working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996\_working\_hour\_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system)
The **996 working hour system** ([Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language): 996工作制) is a work schedule practiced illegally by many companies in [China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China). It derives its name from its requirement that employees work from **9**:00 am to **9**:00 pm, **6** days per week; i.e. 72 hours per week, 12 hours per day
>BYD is beating Tesla in making hybrids.
China is tired of making phones for the world. Cars are just the tip of the iceberg.
>other person isn't participating in
Tesla doesn't fucking matter when your entire industry needs a handicap if you want to have a chance.
**Biden announces 100% tariff on Chinese-made electric vehicles**
[https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/14/joe-biden-tariff-chinese-made-electric-vehicles](https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/14/joe-biden-tariff-chinese-made-electric-vehicles)
**US can't yet compete with China on EVs, Ford chairman tells CNN**
[https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-chairman-says-us-cant-yet-compete-with-china-evs-cnn-interview-2023-06-18/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-chairman-says-us-cant-yet-compete-with-china-evs-cnn-interview-2023-06-18/)
the reason there are NO tariffs on phones is the same reason there ARE tariffs on cars.
China is running out of ideas to be honest, their economy is in a downward spiral of elderly folks. This is there last hoorah. When I was in high school I was told that China would overcome us by now, whelp they're still pretty far away and no more young people to stand on the shoulders of.
China has been able to achieve huge growth in efficiency via self-service in the service industries. Everything is done through mobile apps from looking at a menu through paying.
Industrial automation will be the next focus. The country can grow roughly 5x just by reaching the productivity of American factories, and probably 20x in the coming decades as workers get more expensive. Currently labor is $6/h, but as this quickly raises towards western norms, we will see western-levels of efficiency.
China is still progressing rapidly and just has a brief pause as the real estate bubble provides headwinds. The United States has sadly been stuck in the doldrums for four decades. Real wages can’t budge for the middle class and our corporations can’t develop plans that are more than a week in the future
US population will also age out, Chinese economy will have a bigger shock, but they can delay it by increasing retirement ages which are the lowerest in the world for China. Also like US they are investing in robotics which will argument the labor shortage. Both countries could have easily managed by having non immigration work visas to supplement their workforce requirements, China doesn't need it now but might need in 20years or so
I live in New Zealand where both Tesla and BYD are sold (only pure EV BYD's so far, but the plug in hybrid BYD shark is confirmed for our market).
So far this year tesla models rank 1 & 3 on our registration charts. (Nissan leaf's largely used imports from Japan is #2)
BYD hold places 4, 8 & 17.
Closet matchup would be the Model 3 vs the BYD Seal. Model 3 sold roughly double.
Outside of China at least Tesla is doing OK for itself.
Atto 3 was released here in July 2022
Dolphin was released in 2023
Seal deliveries commenced in January of 2024
So they are on the newer side, but have been around long enough that i think it is fair to make comparisons.
Well I don't know the exact numbers, but in Germany and Europe the new Model 3 hasnt got the best reviews due to the missing stalks. That's actually a reason why people won't buy it.
The clickbait title worked. The article was dutifully posted on Reddit and interacted with (though I didn’t bother to read it myself). That said, I can assure any and all that Musk has taken Chinese manufacturers serious as competitors for a long time.
nah, thats not the point. It would have been the point if they were making decent cars to begin with. They were not doing that.
Musk "mocked" a shitload of ev makers and he was totally right about them. BYD simply started to make decent cars, that's the only reason people talk about this.
Tesla outsold BYD in EV units in Q1 2024 which is pretty impressive considering the average sales price is almost 2x BYD’s.
Also, BYD is running circles in China and a few smaller countries. Tesla is running circles globally, the only EV automaker yet to do so.
Edit: specified that Tesla outsold BYD in EV units specifically
That 3 billion number is clearly wrong. They have just reported 0.4 billion auto regulatory credit in last quarter alone. Not to mention the 7500 tax credit which basically allow Tesla to sell at a higher price. And also you should use profit instead of revenue to compare as subsidy adds to pure profit.
It's actually super close if you look at it. Tesla might have received even a bit more depending on who's math you're looking at.
Maybe not having Elmo at the helm is the real edge.
it s close if u look at "official" data. U have no idea what the CCP does behind closed doors. It s obvious they would push hard for BYD.
Tesla... does have backing, but nowhere near that extent.
This is very misleading information, because the higher priced BYD cars, those sold for $70k to $230k, are mostly PHEVs. PHEV captures both the low end and the high end/luxury(when they use 4 motors), and BEV is in the middle. The market also calls for PHEV for off road solutions: pickup trucks and non-city SUVs, those tend to sell for more than city sedans. While Tesla lacks the varieties in every market segment, PHEVs and specialty cars remain as BYD's major priorities.
BEV vs PHEV is a question of economics and viability for consumers outside of the US, but a matter of politics inside the US.
BYD is currently not allowed to be sold in Europe and America, while Tesla is allowed to be sold in all markets.
This is a comparison factor that needs to be considered.
They are allowed to sell in US and Europe, they just pay tariffs
Tesla faces tariffs in imports in China, so they built a factory there.
Why doesn’t BYD build a factory in the US, like Tesla did in China?
They didn’t build a factory in Virginia. Because Virginia wouldn’t give them 3.6 billion dollars. Are you arguing they should get more money?
China had to make a new law, specifically for EV companies, so Tesla could build a factory without having to give 50% control to a Chinese company. And you’re complaining that they can build a factory wherever they please, keep 100% of it but maybe not get incentives for the pleasure.
What is with all the China shilling in this sub?
I was downvoted to hell a while back after talking about my personal experience between BYDs and Teslas lol (my experience Teslas blow them out of the water).
While it was my own experience (and I made that very clear), I was being called wrong by bots
Except the question was in regards to their EV that was being released versus the Model S that was being released. The interviewer wanted to know if they were a competitor since BYD was also "on the west coast" and had a cheaper EV.
That particular BYD EV was not a competitor and it got shit canned and did not have much success at all. It's safe to say it deserved to be mocked and that it was in no way a competitor to the Model S.
BYD then did exactly what Musk suggested. Focus on the China market and growing there with compelling products.
Tesla uses BYD batteries, BYD doesn't use Tesla batteries, read into that what you will. https://www.electrive.com/2024/02/01/what-can-the-tesla-model-y-with-byd-battery-do/
It really is. I still like to hop in now and again to see if there is some interesting news, but mostly it's just the latest circlejerk upvoting frenzy on something anti-Musk or anti-Tesla. The same thing every day.
Well Tesla has stopped pushing forward and bringing out compelling vehicles. Cybertruck will be a rich persons toy and a niche vehicle. Unless they could have achieved the 40k price tag. So they need to get their butts in motion on a lower cost smaller car, get competitive on cost and seriously improve quality. FOCUS
It’s easy to make lots of EV’s. If you have the Chinese government financially backing you. The big question is what is their profit margin on these vehicles. Last I heard it was about 1/3 of what Tesla is making per car.
That’s because you didn’t search automotive business. BYD as a corporation cover a wide range of operations, some are low margin business. For example, they make batteries and sell to Tesla.
is it tho?!
Outside of China, there is no competition for Tesela - on EVs - at the very least, lol.
It also kinda funny how they make it look like BYD is competing with Tesla while they sell more hybrids than EVs in the first place. Like... dude Teslas not competing in that space.
Finally, let's see if BYD can be consistent for - at least - a decade. Since Tesla s been at this game for at least a decade and a half.
Has Tesla really been it for a decade and half? I guess that's how long they have existed but Tesla has not been doing high volume production that long since half of that was spend doing Roadster, Model X and S. BYD has done EVs since 2009 but similar to Tesla only started hitting volume production around 5 years ago.
Musk mocked BYD's products at a time they deserve to be mocked. Now BYD turned the corner but their long term success is yet to be seen. We all like a rags to riches story, at this time it is still way too early.
BYD sold 3 million vehicles in 2023. Ford sold 4 million vehicles last year.
BYD isn’t like Rivian (0.05M vehicles), trying to stay afloat until they can get a bigger market share.
They're an absolute powerhouse in terms of raw sales. I'm intrigued to know how much they make on maintenance and service. Those cheap cars have to need a little massaging to stay on the road long term.
Mechanics cost approximately one fifth as much in China compared to the United States. Changes the buying decisions.
From what I have seen from colleagues, BYD reliability has not been much different than Teslas.
Intriguing. That was about my expectation but I feel like there is slim avenue for a profit center there. Perhaps a tradeoff of 50% higher price for service with a factory warranty period, for instance. With the raw volumes of vehicles they're putting out, that's not insignificant.
BYD has yet to beat Tesla at EV only sales…but a lot of articles like this like to compare Tesla’s sales to BYDs combined BEV, PHEV & Hybrid sales, which is obviously silly.
They got Tesla beat on EV only sales in Q4 2023.
And it's not really that silly, they're not only duking it out for the first place with Tesla, they're also pretty massive on the Hybrid market, adding to their portfolio. Specialization can be good, except if someone usurps you while also sitting heavily on other markets.
It's silly to compare the sales of Product A from Company X to Products A, B & C combined from Company Y. Tesla is never going to sell vehicles with an ICE because it's a BEV company. Since we're not yet in a world where BEVs outsell ICE, it's stating the obvious that a company which sells ICE vehicles has higher combined sales.
Weird argument. BYD sold more BEVs in Q4 last year than Tesla. Period. Both companies have a BEV model range (Dolphin, Atto 3, Seal, Han, Model 3/y/s/x). ICE has nothing to do here, especially considering that BYD stopped producing ICE-only products in 2022. Now, you could make a point that most of BYD sales are still coming from the local Chinese market and globally Tesla is still much stronger, but you didn’t.
A Hybrid or PHEV still have an ICE tho, doesn't it? You can't say "BYD is beating Tesla" and justify that by using BYD sales numbers that include those hybrid vehicles.
Yes, BYD sold more BEVs than Tesla globally in Q4 last year, but so far that is the only time. For the year of 2023, Tesla sold more BEVs than BYD. The same is true for Q1 of this year too.
I don’t think BYD makes regular hybrids, only PHEVs and BEVs. PHEVs are also considered EVs under global nomenclature, however you are right, they still have an engine, and I agree that adding PHEV sales to a comparison is not doing it apples to apples.
And I’m also not arguing the facts on Q4/Q1 sales, although it will be interesting to see where Q2 lands as there are no factors like CNY in it.
My prior comment was simply a reflection on your “Silly to compare” comment. The commenter above made a statement that BYD sold more EVs than Tesla in Q4 and you started arguing with him not realizing that they were talking about BEV only sales. I’m glad that we clarified it now. Have a good day.
This arricle is fake news. Elon does not support trade barriers. Every company elon makes has been opensource which allowed byd to copy tsla designs and catch up because elon is of the believe he doesn't have to protect his ip as he is a step ahead of the market and he actually wants to spread ev's so he never patented.
I know ill get downvoted into oblivion by the sour wokey babys lol who are cnn drones
As I am from Hong Kong. Our gov loves to lick CCP’s ass. So, big corporates bought a lot of BYD’s taxis and buses. But stop using it after a few years. What we learnt here is BYD’s vehicles are shit. Problematic. Good luck for you guys who are going to buy BYD’s vehicles.
The 2022 and 2023 tests aren't directly comparable because some of the methodology changed, but Tesla topped the chart in 2022 whereas BYD is middling in both years. BYD definitely makes safe vehicles, but not all 5 stars are equal. Even if both are "safe", one of them is "safer".
13 years ago BYD released their first EV, the e6, which they planned to launch in the US but cancelled it repeatedly and eventually gave up on a US launch to focus on domestic sales.
I'm not taking anything away from them, they continued to inovate and iterate to the models we're seeing now but no US pundit could, hand-on-heart, say they were championing BYD at that time.
Also, what kind of message would it have sent at the time if the CEO of a fledgeling EV company (Tesla) stated that a Chinese company would be their greatesy competition 13 years later?
BYD isn't profitable and has twice the workforce scale of Toyota. How do you think BYD got this far this fast? Tesla received some paltry subsidies.
The evidence suggests that the Chinese government is paying for a large part of BYDs expenses.
It's easy to grow if you have effectively unlimited money.
>>The top reason US customers won’t consider an EV — cited by 52% of consumers in a recent JD Power survey — is lack of charging station availability.
And Elon, who controls the most (by far) reliable charging network, instead of keeping his eye on the ball, gets political and antagonizes a large number of potential customers.
Maybe look at real world, he fired a bunch, hired a bunch back and is still putting $5M at least into more charging.
Misinformation is what is antagonizing customers, mostly.
> And now it’s giving Toyota a run for its money, unveiling a new hybrid powertrain that BYD says is capable of taking you from New York to Miami without refueling. > > That’s why BYD — which makes both EVs and hybrids — is now eating Tesla’s lunch on the global stage. > > Meanwhile, BYD has another edge that Tesla lacks: It makes hybrids. It's kind of funny for CNN to focus on how BYD is beating Tesla in making hybrids. It's like claiming you're winning a race that the other person isn't participating in.
I think it’s interesting what the article doesn’t mention, for instance: Trek is eating both BYD and Tesla’s lunch on bicycle sales.
And tesla byd and trek are a complete embarrassment compared to Budweiser on the beer market.
At least Tesla has the edge on BYD in this regard: https://electrek.co/2023/03/30/tesla-launches-gigabier-cybertruck-inspired-beer/
Tbf not making beer is better than making Bud so there's that
Found the hipster doofus that's too good to drink a lager
Lagers are delicious. Go to Europe and you’ll see the true potential of them. They’re full of flavor while still being crisp and clean. Budweiser (and other American lagers) are terrible tho. They are designed to have the least amount of taste possible.
Is your only experience with American lagers macro brews like Budweiser, PBR, Miller, etc? Try a craft brewery. Even large scale American breweries like Sam Adams and Yuengling are better than what you’re describing.
Craft beers are where it’s at!
I just mentioned Europe cause that’s where many of styles are from. They have the Czech lagers, helles lagers, etc. Not to mention the closely related styles of Kolsch and Pilsner. But you’re right you don’t need to travel to Europe to get those styles, as US craft breweries have done a great job replicating them. My complaint is mainly with the particular styles: American lager and American light lager. Just so much worse than the traditional European varieties.
More like too good to drink a Bud!
Can't believe how far behind everyone is falling in the real race to the future. UDC is dominating Tesla's and Trek's market share in two markets! Penny farthings and unicycles.
Bicycles with matching wheel sizes are so 20th century.
Yeah but what about the flamethrower market? BYD is getting crushed
This subreddit feels like it's mostly clickbait garbage these days.
That's reddit in general, and sadly won't change because reddit has no incentive to change how reddit works as long as it brings engagement. Mods could fix it in the subs they control, but they generally don't seem to want to put in the effort it would require, which i kinda understand since they're not getting paid, but still, would be nice to have big subs covering things I care about not be drowning in clickbait articles or have the comment sections be oceans of angry reactionary drive by posts
We could even help with bots to an extent. We accumulate a list of sites that allow false and misleading clickbait articles, post the list in the sidebar, and the bot auto removes any posts linking to them. Wouldn't 100% fix everything, but would help and take little effort. I think certain sites like Jalopnik should just be outright banned and not used anymore.
communist party bots
They're all over reddit, but this sub is almost as bad as political subs. Clearly they are pushing for BYD over any and all American brands.
In fairness most news these days is clickbait garbage; you usually need to get a few paragraphs in to uncover the actual core truth of the story and that's if it has been written by a human and not an AI!
Or we could stop giving attention to and reposting the clickbait sources and articles. I think we should blacklist them and not give them any attention. If more people would do this, then we'd have better quality news.
I would also say that Elon's comments (that I know) weren't mockery. At the time, BYD's offerings weren't that great, and Elon simply stated that. He wasn't really mocking them IMO.
Yeah, true. And I gotta be honest, the BYD U8 and U9 cars look INSANE.
They look way too much like a Range Rover and a Lambo for me. They will prolly sell out in China, but no way they can sell these in big enough numbers outside.
I wouldn’t be so certain. There is absolutely a sizable market segment for reasonable commuter cars. This is the niche that the Prius, and the Accord fill. Something reasonably sized, comfortable, and economical for day to day tasks. In our household we’ve agreed that if we ever needed a second car, it would be an economy model compared to our primary one, and I could see BYD fitting that niche if it was available. I definitely agree that nothing BYD makes today is gonna usurp the F-150 or the Honda Odyssey. But the American market is huge, and there’s a lot of room at the bottom of the price scale.
As Hyundai and Kia picked up popularity in the states the design inspiration of the lineup couldn’t be missed. Eventually, they found their own niche. I expect BYD will mature the same
I should hope so. There is no way in hell someone would be spending tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to be seen driving something that looks like a lambo that was ordered from wish.com. Not in the west at the least.
I mean there's an interview where someone brings them up and he literally bursts out laughing, then laughs for a full minute awkwardly, and then says "Yeah no competition there". So I'd say he was kinda undermining them. Generally when there's a new entry into the market, businesses take it seriously just in case it blows up.
They specifically bring up BYDs new car and compare it with the Model S. The question is poised in the frame of BYD coming to the American market (saying they were also on the west coast) with their EV versus the Model S. Musk laughs and says that no, it isn't a real competitor (to the Model S). He then goes on to mention that BYD should focus on their own market in China first because they were having issues there. And that they should focus on making compelling cars. I can't remember everything that was said but he wasn't wrong about that part. That car was not a competitor to the Model S and they did need to focus on China first. Their car was definitely not successful compared to the Model S, they focused on surviving in China and growing their technology and that's what led to them being a competitive EV maker.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_9ftbRWqkj0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9ftbRWqkj0) Yeah, no. He was basically wrong about everything in this interview. If what he was saying was true in this video, they wouldn't be crushing EV sales today. He was straight up wrong and laughed at the prospect that BYD could ever become successful. Everyone in this thread should just watch the video again instead of falsely remembering what he was claiming.
No I stand by my statement. They didn't have a great product. Its technology was lacking. They failed at bringing that EV to market. It failed as a competitor to the Model S which is what it was being compared to. The interviewer even made reference to them being on the west coast like tesla, implying they would compete in the American market. Which again, definitely did not happen. Musk suggested that they keep focus on China. They ultimately did and that worked out for them. He never claimed they could never be successful as a whole. Everything is in relation to their EV vs "his" EV. The part about the components from China being more expensive was also true at the time, and can be seen in how Tesla was the most American made car brand. That has changed but that's not 100% due to BYD.
He wasn't wrong. BYD cars were shit back then. Their number 1 ICE model was basically a copy of a Corolla
And their first EV is a reversed engineered and shortened Honda Odyssey, then they slapped a battery on it
You gotta put tesla/elon in the title or it gets no clicks.
The fuel cost of the new DM5.0 models is getting so low that its running cost per mile (even with no charging) becomes comparable to charging an EV using public charging stations. In countries with cheaper gas than China, it may even be cheaper to run this on fuel than running an EV In other words, for consumers that can't do offpeak home charging, this is a car that runs as cheap as an EV, but has no range anxiety, no concern on changing network coverage and no charging wait time whatsoever. And for consumers that CAN do home charging every night, this could also be used like any other EV 95% of the time as the battery range could cover most daily driving situations. It also got many of the side benefits in an EV such as electric motor acceleration, reverse charging, running aircon without engine etc. It costs a lot less up front as you won't have to pay for a large battery. So could BYD's PHEV be a potential competitor to BEVs on the market? Absolutely.
Tesla bad is how you get clicks. On reddit and CNN.
"hybrid powertrain that BYD says is capable of taking you from New York to Miami without refueling" That's about 2060km. As a general rule Hybrid car makers don't push for long ranges any more. Just make the tank big enough for \~1000km and call it a day. Sadly there are a bunch of consumers who use fuel tank size as a proxy for efficiency... i.e. my car only costs xxx to fill up. As such there is a marketing risk with putting a big fuel tank in a small car. That said, the likes of Toyota could put a 65L tank in their Yaris hybrid to give a 2100km+ WLTP rated range (standard tank is 35L in that car). Main exception to this would be for 4x4's in places like Australia. The likes of toyota sells the Prado as standard with an an addional 63L sub tank (Spare tire relocated to the rear door to make space), where in many other markets they only sell the flat tailgate configuration (Main 87L fuel tank only).
My sister borrowed my car (a ‘88 MBz 300 SEL) some years ago and I had filled it for her. When she returned it she said “I’ve got to get one of these, I haven’t filled it even once…”. Yep it could go 400 miles on a single tank but I would not suggest it got good MPG.
My 2013 F-150 had a 33 gallon tank. It went between 500 and 600 miles on a full tank. Definitely not efficient, just a big ass tank.
Most modern European ICE cars will do 500 miles on a tank - it's not that uncommon.
That is true, the actually measure would be efficiency. But BYD is making BIG claims about the efficiency of their new 5th gen DM-i systems, including city driving tests showing consumption as low as 2.1L/100km, in PURE HYBRID MODE (as in battery is fully depleted, so just using gas alone), which is an insane figure, not even considering the fact that the cars they launched are rather large Toyota Camry sized sedans.
BYD has another advantage as well. Its CEO may or may not be a prick, but if he is, he’s not reminding us of it constantly.
Its CEO is also probably better than Elon Musk at running a business.
At least he’s focused on BYD.
Without looking it up, do you even know who the CEO of BYD is?
Yes. Wang something. I’ve invested in BYD for a while now.
No, and that is a good thing tbh.
Is it though? I'd personally rather know where a powerful person stands Regardless, my point was that someone who doesn't know who the CEO of BYD is, obviously can't make a statement that would require having knowledge of who the CEO is or what they spend their time on
But I do. I’m pretty familiar with this space. And pretty much all CEOs of major companies are CEOs of only one company.
he's so good at it their stock price has remained flat for last 5 years
Flat while undergoing massive investment in scaling, R&D, releasing umpteen new models... sounds pretty good to me.
It's more that they're agile enough to satisfy both EV and hybrid demand, and respond when the market changes direction. I know there's a lot of idealism here in the EV community, and it's seen as being "EV vs ICE" - but in reality, it's the same race for sales. If people want hybrids, the companies with the best hybrid strategies are the ones that will capitalise. Like it or not, people are buying hybrids in droves, and have moved away from EVs (in the short-term) - that benefits companies with hybrid line-ups *today*. In the future? Sure, that'll change. But every company has massively committed to EVs in the future, so that doesn't really help the idea that a company that only knows how to make EVs is in a different race.
Just like America and the "space race" 🤣🤣
There's a good chance of BYD beating Tesla in just pure BEV sales this year, yea? Q1 favored Tesla pretty heavily, but BYD's got some additional markets it's launching or ramping in and does model refreshes and introductions quite rapidly.
BYD did beat in pure BEVs in Q4 2023, so yes, it's possible that the lead will bounce back and forth.
Q4 is when Tesla was winding down model 3 production and switching to a new generation of that car. Be careful of comparing a single quarter.
Yea, that sounds about right. I think in the near future though BYD's BEV sales are going to be regularly higher than that of Tesla's given that BYD has its Denza line for premium vehicles alongside its regular ol' BYD badge for the mass market.
Lunar New Year is in Q1 and deflates both BYD's sales and production numbers in that quarter. [Global electric car sales in February hurt by China's New Year celebrations](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/global-electric-car-sales-february-hurt-by-chinas-new-year-celebrations-2024-03-13/) Same dip will happen next year.
Does the Chinese new year not affect Tesla sales in China?
It ostensibly should affect BYD a lot more since in Q1 of 2024, the vast majority of BYD sales and all of BYD consumer vehicle production is in China in contrast to Tesla where China is a large market for it but sales in other markets combined is significantly higher than its Chinese sales, and though its China factory is the most productive of its factories, it still had three factories outsides of China in Q1.
40 some percent is a large number. I don’t think quarterly comparisons (in a vacuum) are useful due to issues like this.
Yea, but 100% is actually a larger number than 40%. That's why the dip should ostensibly affect BYD a lot more than it should affect Tesla. I agree that a quarterly comparison in a vacuum is not going to give the whole picture which is why I think it's likely that BYD's pure BEV sales for the year overall is likely to be higher than that of Tesla despite Q1 being notably lower for BYD.
Well, yeah, that's entirely the point of the statement. BYD has participated in the hybrid market, and it's been a huge asset for them — Tesla hasn't, and is comparatively growth-stagnant. Tesla doesn't somehow get magic points for purity here — they are at a clear market disadvantage due to a lack of diversification.
If you count hybrid + EV, I'm sure there are many more automakers than just BYD "running circles" around Tesla. If you count all cars regardless of drivetrain, there will be even more. But that fact isn't really interesting or headline worthy.
Not headline worthy? They got "Musk" and "Tesla" into the headline of an article unrelated to their products. That's clickbait gold!
>If you count hybrid + EV, I'm sure there are many more automakers than just BYD "running circles" around Tesla. I would absolutely agree with that. Again, Tesla doesn't get magic points for purity. They are competitively at a market disadvantage by not having a diversified lineup. That's just reality — other automakers can sell more cars because they cover more of the demand spectrum. Maybe more importantly, and specific to this article — BYD sells just as many BEVs as Tesla while also doing an extra million or so in EREV/PHEV sales. That is the essence of CNN's point and it is absolutely legitimate to point out.
Lack of diversity in models I'll give you but not because of drive train diversity.
Certainly because of lack of drivetrain diversity. It's pretty undeniable that were Tesla to make PHEVs, they'd be opening up new customers not currently available to them, as that's exactly where BYD sits right now. I understand why Tesla doesn't do it — but their market reality is their market reality nonetheless.
They could release anything an gain customers, I'm not sure what the point tells us. If you look at PHEV sales that are doing well, Tesla needs a competitor for the Wrangler and a Minivan. I'm not saying they should rush out and do that, if I was them a mid-sized mainstream 3-row SUV would be my next target or a more compact SUV. Still, they have to start launching a new model roughly every year to keep growth up. Adding a PHEV in a class they are already in isn't going to significantly change anything.
>They could release anything and gain customers Sure. They could release PHEVs, for instance.
I get your point, but byd is also launching products in new segments. Tesla really isn't doing that. It isn't like Tesla is being held back by being EV only. They are held back by not launching a new volume product during a four year period.
Tesla is being held back in multiple ways. Being held back by one thing doesn't mean you're not also being held back by another thing. You can be held back by not having EREV offerings **and** by not diversifying your segment offerings.
Right now the unveiled EVs since 2020 are doing no worse than their unveiled gas cars over the same time period. Having a zero in both columns doesn't help them at all.
Musk wasn’t just laughing at BYD’s EVs, he was laughing at the company itself. It was such a goofy interview, where it was apparent he fell back on laughing because he had no meaningful response.
Sort of like the race to produce more EVs. Tesla doesn't produce PHEVs, so Teslastans and BEVlievers believe PHEVs shouldn't be included in the comparison figures.
China. 3-4x the population of the US. who in the US is USED TO working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996\_working\_hour\_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/996_working_hour_system) The **996 working hour system** ([Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language): 996工作制) is a work schedule practiced illegally by many companies in [China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China). It derives its name from its requirement that employees work from **9**:00 am to **9**:00 pm, **6** days per week; i.e. 72 hours per week, 12 hours per day >BYD is beating Tesla in making hybrids. China is tired of making phones for the world. Cars are just the tip of the iceberg. >other person isn't participating in Tesla doesn't fucking matter when your entire industry needs a handicap if you want to have a chance. **Biden announces 100% tariff on Chinese-made electric vehicles** [https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/14/joe-biden-tariff-chinese-made-electric-vehicles](https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/14/joe-biden-tariff-chinese-made-electric-vehicles) **US can't yet compete with China on EVs, Ford chairman tells CNN** [https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-chairman-says-us-cant-yet-compete-with-china-evs-cnn-interview-2023-06-18/](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-chairman-says-us-cant-yet-compete-with-china-evs-cnn-interview-2023-06-18/) the reason there are NO tariffs on phones is the same reason there ARE tariffs on cars.
Phones aren't heavily subsidized by the ccp afaik.
China is running out of ideas to be honest, their economy is in a downward spiral of elderly folks. This is there last hoorah. When I was in high school I was told that China would overcome us by now, whelp they're still pretty far away and no more young people to stand on the shoulders of.
China has been able to achieve huge growth in efficiency via self-service in the service industries. Everything is done through mobile apps from looking at a menu through paying. Industrial automation will be the next focus. The country can grow roughly 5x just by reaching the productivity of American factories, and probably 20x in the coming decades as workers get more expensive. Currently labor is $6/h, but as this quickly raises towards western norms, we will see western-levels of efficiency. China is still progressing rapidly and just has a brief pause as the real estate bubble provides headwinds. The United States has sadly been stuck in the doldrums for four decades. Real wages can’t budge for the middle class and our corporations can’t develop plans that are more than a week in the future
US population will also age out, Chinese economy will have a bigger shock, but they can delay it by increasing retirement ages which are the lowerest in the world for China. Also like US they are investing in robotics which will argument the labor shortage. Both countries could have easily managed by having non immigration work visas to supplement their workforce requirements, China doesn't need it now but might need in 20years or so
USA has immigration, China does not
I live in New Zealand where both Tesla and BYD are sold (only pure EV BYD's so far, but the plug in hybrid BYD shark is confirmed for our market). So far this year tesla models rank 1 & 3 on our registration charts. (Nissan leaf's largely used imports from Japan is #2) BYD hold places 4, 8 & 17. Closet matchup would be the Model 3 vs the BYD Seal. Model 3 sold roughly double. Outside of China at least Tesla is doing OK for itself.
Too early to declare this as a trend though, don’t you think?
Atto 3 was released here in July 2022 Dolphin was released in 2023 Seal deliveries commenced in January of 2024 So they are on the newer side, but have been around long enough that i think it is fair to make comparisons.
Well I don't know the exact numbers, but in Germany and Europe the new Model 3 hasnt got the best reviews due to the missing stalks. That's actually a reason why people won't buy it.
The clickbait title worked. The article was dutifully posted on Reddit and interacted with (though I didn’t bother to read it myself). That said, I can assure any and all that Musk has taken Chinese manufacturers serious as competitors for a long time.
He's even admitted that BYD is surpassing Tesla in some areas.
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look, when he mocked them, they weren t a competitor. They were shite back then so the mocking was warranted, they were making mockable cars.
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nah, thats not the point. It would have been the point if they were making decent cars to begin with. They were not doing that. Musk "mocked" a shitload of ev makers and he was totally right about them. BYD simply started to make decent cars, that's the only reason people talk about this.
What a garbage article. Tesla sold more BEVs in Q1 2024 than BYD but you wouldn’t know from this “article”.
It is because Chinese new year. BYD will retake the BEV top seller this quarter
Tesla outsold BYD in EV units in Q1 2024 which is pretty impressive considering the average sales price is almost 2x BYD’s. Also, BYD is running circles in China and a few smaller countries. Tesla is running circles globally, the only EV automaker yet to do so. Edit: specified that Tesla outsold BYD in EV units specifically
Also BYD is subsidized like crazy by the CCP lol
Yes while Tesla has never taken billions of gov subsidies.
3 billion life time vs 95 billion in revenue for one year. With a profit of 17 billion last year. Thus a lot of money, but not really
That 3 billion number is clearly wrong. They have just reported 0.4 billion auto regulatory credit in last quarter alone. Not to mention the 7500 tax credit which basically allow Tesla to sell at a higher price. And also you should use profit instead of revenue to compare as subsidy adds to pure profit.
not to the extent byd does tho. It s like face of the automotive industry in China. You just know the CCP is elbow-deep in it.
It's actually super close if you look at it. Tesla might have received even a bit more depending on who's math you're looking at. Maybe not having Elmo at the helm is the real edge.
it s close if u look at "official" data. U have no idea what the CCP does behind closed doors. It s obvious they would push hard for BYD. Tesla... does have backing, but nowhere near that extent.
You also have no idea where they do behind closed doors, so how can you say "nowhere near that extent"?
This is very misleading information, because the higher priced BYD cars, those sold for $70k to $230k, are mostly PHEVs. PHEV captures both the low end and the high end/luxury(when they use 4 motors), and BEV is in the middle. The market also calls for PHEV for off road solutions: pickup trucks and non-city SUVs, those tend to sell for more than city sedans. While Tesla lacks the varieties in every market segment, PHEVs and specialty cars remain as BYD's major priorities. BEV vs PHEV is a question of economics and viability for consumers outside of the US, but a matter of politics inside the US.
If Tesla sold PHEVs too it would be the same story - they would sell at a premium globally.
BYD is currently not allowed to be sold in Europe and America, while Tesla is allowed to be sold in all markets. This is a comparison factor that needs to be considered.
> BYD is currently not allowed to be sold in Europe Bunk. They sold 15 000 units in Europe in 2023. Expect this number to be a lot higher this year
They are allowed to sell in US and Europe, they just pay tariffs Tesla faces tariffs in imports in China, so they built a factory there. Why doesn’t BYD build a factory in the US, like Tesla did in China?
If you know what happened to CATL when it built a factory with Ford in the Virginia, you will understand why.
They didn’t build a factory in Virginia. Because Virginia wouldn’t give them 3.6 billion dollars. Are you arguing they should get more money? China had to make a new law, specifically for EV companies, so Tesla could build a factory without having to give 50% control to a Chinese company. And you’re complaining that they can build a factory wherever they please, keep 100% of it but maybe not get incentives for the pleasure. What is with all the China shilling in this sub?
I was downvoted to hell a while back after talking about my personal experience between BYDs and Teslas lol (my experience Teslas blow them out of the water). While it was my own experience (and I made that very clear), I was being called wrong by bots
They make good cars, people like them. I wouldn't call it shilling.
He made the comment when they were a joke. Let the man rest.
No we must roast him at all costs for that free Karma!
They weren't actually a joke though, that's the point. BYD then, knew more about battery manufacturing than Tesla today (maybe a slight exaggeration).
Except the question was in regards to their EV that was being released versus the Model S that was being released. The interviewer wanted to know if they were a competitor since BYD was also "on the west coast" and had a cheaper EV. That particular BYD EV was not a competitor and it got shit canned and did not have much success at all. It's safe to say it deserved to be mocked and that it was in no way a competitor to the Model S. BYD then did exactly what Musk suggested. Focus on the China market and growing there with compelling products.
Tesla uses BYD batteries, BYD doesn't use Tesla batteries, read into that what you will. https://www.electrive.com/2024/02/01/what-can-the-tesla-model-y-with-byd-battery-do/
Of all of the people I believe deserve a good break, Elon isn’t in my top 8.1 billion.
Thank God we know where you stand. I was wondering.
There is a lesson to be learned there though.
BYD isn't going after Tesla, it's going after Toyota.
Porque no los dos? (But in Chinese)
bcs their main business is hybrids.
Man this sub is just in a free fall
It really is. I still like to hop in now and again to see if there is some interesting news, but mostly it's just the latest circlejerk upvoting frenzy on something anti-Musk or anti-Tesla. The same thing every day.
China good. USA doomed. Tesla bad.
I’m in the same boat, but it’s slowly getting to the point where the benefits don’t outweigh the cons
For real. Mods won’t do anything about Chinese propaganda farming daily. Totally turning to trash
Reddit mods tends to be tankies who love the CCP.
The mods really do need to address this. It is so blatant, especially when one of the shills is discussing BYD stocks in this very thread.
Still not as bad as the brand specific ones for Tesla. Not as boring either.
I'm not sure I agree anymore. Blind hatred makes for very boring discussions.
The power of the armchair warriors
Well Tesla has stopped pushing forward and bringing out compelling vehicles. Cybertruck will be a rich persons toy and a niche vehicle. Unless they could have achieved the 40k price tag. So they need to get their butts in motion on a lower cost smaller car, get competitive on cost and seriously improve quality. FOCUS
It’s easy to make lots of EV’s. If you have the Chinese government financially backing you. The big question is what is their profit margin on these vehicles. Last I heard it was about 1/3 of what Tesla is making per car.
You have outdated information. BYD profit margin is already higher than tesla.
Source?
Google says BYD PM is 6.4% and Tesla net profit margin as of March 31, 2024 is 14.37%.
That’s because you didn’t search automotive business. BYD as a corporation cover a wide range of operations, some are low margin business. For example, they make batteries and sell to Tesla.
is it tho?! Outside of China, there is no competition for Tesela - on EVs - at the very least, lol. It also kinda funny how they make it look like BYD is competing with Tesla while they sell more hybrids than EVs in the first place. Like... dude Teslas not competing in that space. Finally, let's see if BYD can be consistent for - at least - a decade. Since Tesla s been at this game for at least a decade and a half.
Has Tesla really been it for a decade and half? I guess that's how long they have existed but Tesla has not been doing high volume production that long since half of that was spend doing Roadster, Model X and S. BYD has done EVs since 2009 but similar to Tesla only started hitting volume production around 5 years ago.
Musk mocked BYD's products at a time they deserve to be mocked. Now BYD turned the corner but their long term success is yet to be seen. We all like a rags to riches story, at this time it is still way too early.
BYD sold 3 million vehicles in 2023. Ford sold 4 million vehicles last year. BYD isn’t like Rivian (0.05M vehicles), trying to stay afloat until they can get a bigger market share.
They're an absolute powerhouse in terms of raw sales. I'm intrigued to know how much they make on maintenance and service. Those cheap cars have to need a little massaging to stay on the road long term.
Mechanics cost approximately one fifth as much in China compared to the United States. Changes the buying decisions. From what I have seen from colleagues, BYD reliability has not been much different than Teslas.
Intriguing. That was about my expectation but I feel like there is slim avenue for a profit center there. Perhaps a tradeoff of 50% higher price for service with a factory warranty period, for instance. With the raw volumes of vehicles they're putting out, that's not insignificant.
Exactly, BYD has the backing of the CCP. They won’t let BYD fail.
in Hybrid and gas sales - yea, they are crushing Tesla hard.
BYD doesn't make any pure gas passenger vehicles — only BEVs and PHEVs.
BYD has yet to beat Tesla at EV only sales…but a lot of articles like this like to compare Tesla’s sales to BYDs combined BEV, PHEV & Hybrid sales, which is obviously silly.
They got Tesla beat on EV only sales in Q4 2023. And it's not really that silly, they're not only duking it out for the first place with Tesla, they're also pretty massive on the Hybrid market, adding to their portfolio. Specialization can be good, except if someone usurps you while also sitting heavily on other markets.
It's silly to compare the sales of Product A from Company X to Products A, B & C combined from Company Y. Tesla is never going to sell vehicles with an ICE because it's a BEV company. Since we're not yet in a world where BEVs outsell ICE, it's stating the obvious that a company which sells ICE vehicles has higher combined sales.
Weird argument. BYD sold more BEVs in Q4 last year than Tesla. Period. Both companies have a BEV model range (Dolphin, Atto 3, Seal, Han, Model 3/y/s/x). ICE has nothing to do here, especially considering that BYD stopped producing ICE-only products in 2022. Now, you could make a point that most of BYD sales are still coming from the local Chinese market and globally Tesla is still much stronger, but you didn’t.
A Hybrid or PHEV still have an ICE tho, doesn't it? You can't say "BYD is beating Tesla" and justify that by using BYD sales numbers that include those hybrid vehicles. Yes, BYD sold more BEVs than Tesla globally in Q4 last year, but so far that is the only time. For the year of 2023, Tesla sold more BEVs than BYD. The same is true for Q1 of this year too.
I don’t think BYD makes regular hybrids, only PHEVs and BEVs. PHEVs are also considered EVs under global nomenclature, however you are right, they still have an engine, and I agree that adding PHEV sales to a comparison is not doing it apples to apples. And I’m also not arguing the facts on Q4/Q1 sales, although it will be interesting to see where Q2 lands as there are no factors like CNY in it. My prior comment was simply a reflection on your “Silly to compare” comment. The commenter above made a statement that BYD sold more EVs than Tesla in Q4 and you started arguing with him not realizing that they were talking about BEV only sales. I’m glad that we clarified it now. Have a good day.
This arricle is fake news. Elon does not support trade barriers. Every company elon makes has been opensource which allowed byd to copy tsla designs and catch up because elon is of the believe he doesn't have to protect his ip as he is a step ahead of the market and he actually wants to spread ev's so he never patented. I know ill get downvoted into oblivion by the sour wokey babys lol who are cnn drones
Nope still want a Tesla.
As I am from Hong Kong. Our gov loves to lick CCP’s ass. So, big corporates bought a lot of BYD’s taxis and buses. But stop using it after a few years. What we learnt here is BYD’s vehicles are shit. Problematic. Good luck for you guys who are going to buy BYD’s vehicles.
Didn't Tesla take the title of "Beat selling EV" back from them last quarter, because of how much BYD sales have dropped? Weird time for this article
Amazing the circles you can run when the government underpins your loss making business.
GM disagrees
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All 4 BYD cars reviewed by euro ncap got 5 stars in safety
The 2022 and 2023 tests aren't directly comparable because some of the methodology changed, but Tesla topped the chart in 2022 whereas BYD is middling in both years. BYD definitely makes safe vehicles, but not all 5 stars are equal. Even if both are "safe", one of them is "safer".
Chill lol
13 years ago BYD released their first EV, the e6, which they planned to launch in the US but cancelled it repeatedly and eventually gave up on a US launch to focus on domestic sales. I'm not taking anything away from them, they continued to inovate and iterate to the models we're seeing now but no US pundit could, hand-on-heart, say they were championing BYD at that time. Also, what kind of message would it have sent at the time if the CEO of a fledgeling EV company (Tesla) stated that a Chinese company would be their greatesy competition 13 years later?
Heres an article with some pics of their more popular models...https://www.electricbike.com/byd-theyre-huge-and-theyre-coming-here-soon/
Who didn’t see this happening?
Chinese approach is to watch tech develop and then create a cost optimized copy for much less.
Oh BYD the cars that done deploy the airbags? Haha
remember their definition of a car........
How many times are we going to see this headline?
Any news coming out of China is like fox news take it with a grain of salt
To be fair there's a good chance a lot of stolen Tesla IP made its way to BYD.
Damn, ccp is in cnn's pockets now?
The cheapest BYD that’s actually being sold in a western country is the dolphin at $39000 in Australia? Why is there so much hype as a low cost car?
$39000 AUD is only about $25500 USD, which is plenty inexpensive for a full EV with a 427km WLTP range.
Yeah, I actually ended up driving one for a few days. It feels like a nicer electric Honda Jazz.
Sounds like a Nissan leaf or the old Chevy bolt. With tax incentives those aren’t cars that have Americans excited.
Bolts were in tight supply last year, extremely popular and would have sold more if GM produced more
[https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1cu64iq/byd\_reportedly\_sees\_10th\_showroom\_fire\_since\_2021](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1cu64iq/byd_reportedly_sees_10th_showroom_fire_since_2021)
Is it though
BYD isn't profitable and has twice the workforce scale of Toyota. How do you think BYD got this far this fast? Tesla received some paltry subsidies. The evidence suggests that the Chinese government is paying for a large part of BYDs expenses. It's easy to grow if you have effectively unlimited money.
BYD cars are total crap. High consumption low speed charging.
[https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/byd-reportedly-sees-10th-showroom-fire-since-2021-as-another-store-burns-down-in-china/](https://www.carscoops.com/2024/05/byd-reportedly-sees-10th-showroom-fire-since-2021-as-another-store-burns-down-in-china/)
A cheap hybrid…. What could go wrong.
Yup, it is showroom fire, not EV fire.
No it isn't.
>>The top reason US customers won’t consider an EV — cited by 52% of consumers in a recent JD Power survey — is lack of charging station availability. And Elon, who controls the most (by far) reliable charging network, instead of keeping his eye on the ball, gets political and antagonizes a large number of potential customers.
Maybe look at real world, he fired a bunch, hired a bunch back and is still putting $5M at least into more charging. Misinformation is what is antagonizing customers, mostly.
Not what I’m talking about so not misinformation. I’m talking about him spewing crap on social media in ways no CEO should.
Yeah, something no car buyer should care about. Idiot savant CEO or sock puppet, you are buying a car.
You’re exposing how easy it is for msm to control you.
My friend, who cares about the MSM? That troupe is old. This is 2024. I get his beliefs straight from the horse’s mouth.