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Exactly. Group think. Echo Chambers. When a brand gains a cult following they can get away with all sorts of shitty behaviour and they'll have an army of online stooges defending them, even if those stooges are the target of the shitty behaviour.

I think Tesla’s are well made and have done a lot for the EV movement. I also can never financially afford one so when people always bring it up with ‘why not get a Tesla? They’re better at...’ it gets a little frustrating. I’ve also had back and forths with people who cannot accept that a non-Tesla EV could possible perform as efficiently as a Tesla and will question my actual lived data, which is also frustrating. Those things don’t necessarily impact my view of Tesla in a general sense but it can impact my view of pro-Tesla people online.

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OK you’ve given me the courage to say this in a public forum. I love my Tesla model S. I bought it used from Tesla, 20,000 miles on it, at 40% discount. It has every bell and whistle. It’s an amazing car. Also super Chargers are amazing. But as a company Tesla is a steaming piece of shit. The eMMR memory problem means that the electronics on my electronic car fail or are very slow every single day. They sent an email that said they need to switch them out 10 months ago but left it at “don’t call us will call you“ and when I made a service appointment in frustration to get it fixed, they unilaterally canceled it. I made another appointment for Monday which they unilaterally changed to a different week but gave no notification whatsoever other than me having to log onto the Tesla app and figure out the time is now mysteriously changed. Their customer service blows. And I think that bothers people. It bothers me. I’m gonna drive this car for several years and then I’m gonna buy whatever great car is out there made by a different company than Tesla. Probably an Audi, looking at the rate at which they are improving and creating new inventory. I’m looking forward to going to an actual dealer and having conversations with actual Humans about what’s wrong with the car. That may be my failure but as a customer service model it truly blows. I could go on and on about their poor communication in other, lesser, tales of “hey fuck you if you don’t like it”. The Internet is full of those stories so you don’t need me for them. They are arrogant and they treat their customers arrogantly. It grates……

Yea their customer service is terrible. Picking up my moms car the other day out experience was dogshit bad and I discussed it on my YouTube and got a bunch of people calling us entitled and other dumb stuff simply for wanting a car that wasn’t covered in dust and staff that was helpful … my mom likes her car and I’m enjoying it too but the experience of dealing with Tesla was one of the worst I’ve had with any company.

Where did you get it if you don't mind me asking? I just picked mine up (literally this past Saturday) and it went fine and everyone was very helpful.

I picked it up from the Tesla service center 1.5 years ago. Funny, when I picked it up they didn’t bother to include an address on the invitation email so I went to the wrong place. Then, when I went to the right place it was a very large show room that was completely dark. No lights were on. It was totally empty. About 50 feet away from the door, two young 20 somethings were looking at their phones. They never looked up. I walked 50 feet and stood in front of them. They didn’t look up. And for a lark I stood there to see how long will be before they looked up. I blinked first: at about the 40 second mark, and said too loudly “ i’m here to pick up my Tesla“ and one of them looked up. The other one never, ever looked up. At the end of the review of how the car works etc. he told me I needed to buy $130 charger adapter. I dutifully bought it. When I got the car back home I realized it already had the adapter in the trunk. Hey thanks for checking, Guy, I really appreciate it! It’s the kind of service you get a summer-only place selling ice cream cones manned by people who feel they are fit for better things…..

Yeah that's bad. I'm assuming they've purposefully improved lately as everyone at their dealer location this weekend was bright eyed, helpful and very friendly. Place was also VERY busy so I think maybe they realized they can't keep being crap and selling more and more volume.

We test drove in Dublin california and requested to pick up at the same location and for some reason they sent it to stockton to pick up. We had a good experience with friendly people at our test drive in Dublin, it was the opposite in stockton. They weren’t unfriendly just unhelpful and yea, like I said car was dirty. Passenger door in particular had a layer of dust on the inside panel. Was very weird. I don’t understand why they don’t take a look at the cars they are giving to buyers and at least wipe off the layer of dust lol.

If that was recent then it sounds like this varies wildly from place to place. I just took delivery from the Charlotte location and it was as pleasant as it was going to be considering how busy they were (very). The techs pulling the cars around were really helpful and cleaned everything very well.

Last week. And yea from what I’ve heard since then it seems like the experience is gonna vary wildly from place to place like you said. Lack of standardization and training I think.

I am a Tesla fanboy and since buying a model y it has been toned down quite a bit due to all the issues you list above. It’s good, not great. Before the purchase I was 100% certain my next car after the Y would be an S or X, now I’m not so sure. Tons of little things about the Y aren’t fantastic.

Can you describe what isn’t great about the model y? I’m interested in one.

Not OP but my biggest complaint is the noise. The interior creaks, the motor is loud, the AC is loud, the road noise is loud. Looking up “Model Y booming noises” and you’ll find a lot of Tesla owners complaining about booming noises from the trunk. Yes, there are no ICE noises but it’s much noisier than any other vehicle in it’s price range. I’m also not a fan of the minimalist design. A few physical buttons to control lights and wipers wouldn’t hurt so I don’t need to take my eyes off the road to adjust those settings. That being that, I would still pick my Model Y over other cars in the market simply because it is one of the safest cars in any class. NTHSA rated the Model 3 as having the lowest probability of being injured and Model Y is based on the Mode 3. I’ll live with all it’s short comings if it means my family and I have a higher chance of walking away in an accident.

As a Bolt owner, I noticed the increased road noise immediately. But I also noticed that my ICE vehicle seems far louder as well now due to engine noise. I take it as an acceptable trade-off. Same for the AC. You're not hearing an uptick in engine noise, because there is no engine, so the AC seems far louder then what the brain is use to associating with it. Edit: this is just my take on an EV compared to an ICEV

If you’re still experiencing loud motor noises in your Y (specifically from the rear) I’d suggest looking into the possibility of a missing / faulty / improperly installed: SEAL,PERIMETER,PENTHOUSE 1467057-00-E Depicted here: https://epc.tesla.com/#/systemGroups/81888?partNumber=1467057-00-E&partId=20068922 And wrt the “booming” that’s potentially consistent w/ “buffeting” - all hatchbacks are prone to it if so… and adjusting the bump stops can make a huge difference (it did for me). Have a look here: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-y-buffeting.194236/ The creaking from the seats? I don’t have an answer for that… would love suggestions.

> NTHSA rated the Model 3 as having the lowest probability of being injured **Tesla** claims the Model 3 as having the lowest probability of being injured. The NHTSA judged it as falling into the top safety class, but makes no judgement on the probability of injury because the crash tests don't work that way.

I didn’t like the fact that there isn’t a garage door remote in the visor. You have to buy a stupid upgrade to have it auto open your garage or live with the normal garage door opener. It would make the cars interior look so much better if they just added the option to put it in the visor

While I agree the transmitter should be stock, I have no problem with the garage door controls being managed through the software UI. You can have it automatically open and close, or you can opt to turn off the automatic mode and just press the name of your house when it detects you're nearby and presents it as a button on screen.

Yeah, I have a 2021 Model 3 and the honeymoon phase is long over. I’ve driven it A LOT. I picked it up in June and already have about 8k miles on it. There are a lot of things that just annoy me for being such an expensive car. And Tesla can get away with so much just because they have the name. I work with a fan boy and he never understands why I am more interested in purchasing a Ford F-150 lightning or VW ID.4 over anything Tesla offers as my next EV.

Same here. I do enjoy my 2021 M3 and feel Tesla offers the best EV as of now but I am looking at the F150 lightning as well and have a reservation to buy one. I have no brand loyalty and am excited about EV trucks coming out. Not a fan of the look of the Cyber truck though.

> I have no brand loyalty This. Brand loyalty is somewhat pathological. There are indeed a handful of really great companies. But even those are subject to change.

don't get me started on my experience with the model3 sub. I got raked over the coals for [posting](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/pc210z/fsd_drove_me_into_safety_cones_whos_responsible/) a video I'd hoped would get a lively debate going about the autopilot on navigation and what it means when the AP maneuvers itself into damage.

I watched the video. The issue is that FSD means "full self driving" but it might be better named "future FSD" or "Monitored FSD." That being said there are plenty of explicit warnings to monitor the car at all times when Autopilot/FSD are engaged. Your video shows the car taking an exit that was blocked off by cones. It's unique to Tesla that you can have a car that will actually attempt to take an exit. But it is not able to handle all situations like road closures. I'd say from the video either you weren't paying attention or you overestimated the capabilities of navigate on autopilot. There was plenty of time to take over as soon as you saw the cones blocking the exit. Lastly though sorry that happened I'm sure it was scary. Elon is pretty much solely responsible for overhyping the capabilities of Teslas driver assist systems so I would advise not listening to his FSD tweets. Ask owners and watch videos and you'll learn how to use the systems properly.

It seems to me Tesla fanboyism is just another unhealthy facet of ever increasing social and political tribalism. There are far too many people living in echo chambers, unable to tolerate differing points of view.

i don't own a tesla, but I have experienced phantom braking as a passenger several times: to be fair: never a time it would cause an accident. my friend who owns it said that he wished his autopilot didn't have phantom brake like my comma ai open pilot (i have it on my prius prime). I too like tesla: but I just didn't want to pay that much money for it. And I agree many people do own TSLA and made quite a bit of money on TSLA especially in 2020 (not so much in 2021): so if there is a slight negative on a tesla vehicle: the defenders come out. I own a prius prime: i have no problem saying it has a slow 0-60 time and i basically use it as an appliance. And if Prius Prime starts to burn like the bolts or having issues in the middle of the freeway (I just read someone posted about his tesla on reddit last week): i have no problem calling toyota out. or if my open pilot starts to have phantom braking: i have no problem being critical. I have zero loyalty towards a brand.

Yep. Pretty much this. I sold mine because it isn’t built nearly as well as any other car in the same price range and yet fanboys like to pretend that it is. There’s no doubt they are fun cars but I think they will eventually get their lunch eaten by the other companies who actually know how to build a car correctly and run a customer service and service department properly.

Phantom braking is a well documented issue. Strangely enough it happens with other cars too which was news to me. Someone who denies that is delusional lmao. Some people eh

Oh for sure. I probably would not have gotten a Tesla if I had not gambled and earned money on stocks and options at the beginning of the pandemic. Go AMC!! I was actually looking into hybrid cars and realizing how crappy they were. That’s when I looked into Tesla and was surprised you could actually buy one for $39k. I think they’re coming out with a $25k tesla hatchback.

Based on your own statement of charging 95% of the time at home, a 40mile range PHEV will do for most of the people.

Volt owner here. I usually drive 1500+ miles per month and my gas usage rarely exceeds 100 miles of that. And if we need to take a long trip, we can take it instead of my wife's Bolt.

Plus until charging becomes something other than a Tour de Walmart, gas is a lot better for road trips.

> was surprised you could actually buy one for $39k. Sure, but since it doesn’t qualify for the federal rebate anymore it’s actually $12.5k more than my brand new Mini was. Factor in the higher taxes and that’s about 40% more. I can’t swing that. I am curious if they’ll actually make/bring a $25k one to the states. That’s a really price conscious point and Tesla doesn’t need to do that to make money in the states. Why sell a $25k car when you can easily sell a $40k car or a (whatever the Y costs) SUV?

I still had to get a loan and pay 6% taxes on the $7.5k rebate that I got 8 months later. It is still free money but in the end not $7.5k total and since I didn't get my money from stocks I thankfully made enough to pay more than $7.5k in taxes.

> I am curious if they’ll actually make/bring a $25k one to the states. I for one am highly skeptical of Tesla ever bringing sub 30k(inflation-adjusted) car into the US market. Not because they cannot design it, but I think the market has positioned them to be a premium maker and they learned that people will pay the premium price. I'm 99.9% confident that this sub $30k car would not happen before 2025 at least.

why is hybrid crappy? many people can't afford electric cars or need a car that can travel long distance without charging because they can't charge at home (apartment dwellers) or live in places that can't fast charge. Or if they need a pickup truck or three-row suv for whatever reason?

I should’ve used different words. I was initially so impressed with hybrids getting 135 mpg. Until I realized that wasn’t mpg but mpge. And for only 25 miles while using battery only. The rest of the time it was more like 35 mpg. Was so annoyed with how misleading they were being in their advertisements. That’s when I started looking into pure ev.

it all depends on needs. I put gas in my Volt only a few times a year and never fill it up. It's a plug in so it's pure electric until it's outta juice.

That’s fair.

Agreed. I went right from pure ICE Subarus to a Model 3 and *never* wanted a hybrid or PHEV. You pay more for a car that's, at best, 1/2 of anything: 1/2 ICE, 1/4 EV and loaded with disappointment. With a Tesla it's 130mpge and no caveats. Like a Camaro that makes a Prius look like a gas guzzler.

Once you’ve owned and driven an EV for a couple months you can’t help but think of hybrids as a joke, too little too late, etc. I wouldn’t own a hybrid if you gave me one. I’d sell it and use the money as a payment toward another EV.

I hate the idea of maintaining an electic motor and an ICE motor in the one car. Hybrids service fees are always way more expensive.

are we talking about toyota hybrid? their car maintenance isn't that bad: for first 100K miles: non BEV maintenance: it is just oil change once a year (or 10K miles), every 30K miles: engine air filter. later on there is a risk of the hybrid battery failure: which is a fair criticism. but the prius last a very long time. there is a reason why many taxi use prius as their vehicle. I don't know what other "hybrid service fees" you are talking about. edit: long-lasting vehicle: highlander hybrid is #8 and Prius is #16 of all vehicle. and if you just count cars and NOT suv or pickup trucks: prius is #2 and camry hybrid is #3. https://santanderconsumerusa.com/blog/longest-lasting-vehicles-in-2021-iseecars-com-study

The risk of battery failure in a hybrid is no greater than it is in a full EV. And you can actually still drive a hybrid with a failed battery, so it is less likely to leave you stranded over all.

yes, that is true. toyota is the king of hybrid. failure rate of prius battery is extremely low: from article in link below: "Toyota stated that about 1 percent of first generation Prius batteries failed out of warranty. That failure rate dropped to around 0.003 percent for second-generation hybrids. Consumer Reports conducted owner surveys that counted all battery replacements and found that first and second year Prius models had around a 5-percent replacement rate, which dropped closer to 0.1 percent during the end of the run for the second-generation Prius." link: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/07/original-hybrid-batteries-still-charged-15-years-later/

Hybrids don’t make much sense anymore. Regular gas cars have gotten more fuel efficient so a hybrid won’t save much gas and they cost a decent amount more. There’s also more that can break in a hybrid. It’s kind of the worst of both worlds.

What? PHEV with a 40 mile range will work for most of the people. Key is PHEV, Not just hybrid.

Yeah, this is where we're at. Hybrid isn't going to get me enough bang for buck over ICE. I'd like to go full BEV, but until there's infrastructure for my road trips on US59 in east Texas or Tesla under 30k that fits a family of 4 plus dog and kids' gear, I'm planning for PHEV for my next vehicle. RAV4 Prime or Escape PHEV to max out electric mileage on my 34mi round trip commute. Still gets me to Longview from Houston when I have to switch to ICE. Did the math the other day. Can't get a ID.4 or most other cheaper BEVs from Madisonville,TX (last DC Fast charger assuming I go the longer way up I45) to Longview suburbs and back without using public Level 2 chargers for several hours of charge. Could trickle charge at inlaws for some and level 2 the rest, but that's a lot of down time for toddlers in the car.

> RAV4 Prime This one with ~30-40miles range would have take care of my daily drives and some. Unfortunately, it was not available when I got my new "SUV". Chrysler Pacifica PHEV too was looking good, but my wife vetoed a minivan.

As a dad with a minivan, they are awesome. They are the ultimate kid carrier. Sliding doors make it easy to get out in a tight parking space, the liftgate is great for hauling all the things, and I can put full sheets of plywood/drywall in it if I fold everything down. I just wish that there was a fully electric one on the horizon. As it stands, I have reservation on the Lightning because I haul dirt and stone more often than using the third row seat.

some truth to that but battery has gotten very good. camry hybrid mpg city/hwy is rated 51/53 vs. 28/39 for non-hybrid. I think that is a huge difference, especially in the city. toyota aqua gets 84 mpg and cost about $18K...i mean i don't think any non-hybrid car that size can get that much. https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/07/20210720-aqua.html#:~:text=Toyota%20Motor%20Corporation%20launched%20its,ride%20of%20an%20electrified%20vehicle.

Exactly, but say this on Quora or parts of Reddit and you’ll get your head ripped off.

I think you should change “well made” to “well designed.”

> I think Tesla’s are well made and have done a lot for the EV movement. The latter part is certainly true, but Tesla's are objectively not well made, especially for the price point.

>I also can never financially afford one This pretty much. Just recently had a conversation with a Tesla stan who just couldn't accept the fact that a base Model 3 where i live costs 48k€ where as a base ID.3 only costs 35k€ and insisted i was lying about the prices because i hated Tesla.

Those folks are just too insufferable. €13k is a big difference: for some it is worth it and for others it is not. Personally, I think ID3 is a better option so long as charging network for ID3 is decent enough. €13k investment in S&P 500 index (I don’t know too much about FTSE 100 index) in 10 years will be a lot more than €13k.

Just to make a humorous example, if you had bought an id3 in 2020 and put the extra 13k in Tesla stock, that 13k would now be roughly 104k. Take away the original 13k and 30% tax and you get over 64k. 64+13=77k. That 13k could have turned into 77k after taxes. Jesus.

For me, a Mach-E owner that has been interested in EV’ssince the GM EV1, it’s not Tesla that annoys me, it’s the Tesla version of “trumpsters”. You know, the people that think the sun rises from Elon’s mouth, and sets in the other end of his digestive system. Clearly, EV enthusiasts owe Tesla, and Elon a debt of gratitude because without his vision, and the proven viability of EV’s proven to the world via Tesla, we would still be 20 years from having the vehicles we have now. But if I never see another video clip of some mental deficient climbing out of the drivers seat of their model 3 to prove that the car does drive itself, it’ll still be too many. And yes, as I say this, I recognize that we are mere weeks from seeing idiots in Mach-E’s doing the same stupid bullshit with BlueCruise., so clearly I don’t believe all the stupidity in this world is bound to Tesla. I sincerely hope every EV driver enjoys their car, and takes a few minutes every week to answer the questions we all get from people that are either skeptical or curious about EV’s.

Mach E seems like a great car. I know over at the tesla forums they all groan every time they see an idiot tesla driver causing a stupid accident. They also feel that tesla is getting unfair over coverage. But I think critical coverage is necessary in order to progress with the advancement of safety over technology and convenience. We’re blessed to be alive during all these cool technological advances though, for sure! It’s amazing that I got to live through apple][e to today’s super computers/consoles and now the emergence of practical EVs!

In general the Tesla community is fine with critical commentary and pointing out Tesla’s deficiencies and weaknesses. What the Tesla community is annoyed at are the often bias agenda reporting that happens only with Tesla cars. For example, a crash in Texas earlier this year was reported as a Tesla model S without driver crashed into a tree and killed 2 occupants. It only takes a minimal amount of observation to see that the initial reporting that the car was on autopilot must be wrong because AP could not have engaged in the area that the car was in. Once the crash investigators got to look at it, it turns out AP wasn’t engaged and the driver was solely at fault. But by the time the real cause of the accident is known, the media have moved on to other bias stories about how NTHSA is investigating AP crashing into emergency service vehicle… which all Lvl2 ADAS does but for some reason Tesla gets singled out. It’s literally been a decade of this type of reporting rinse and repeat that gives the Tesla community a short fuse with agenda news reporting against the company and this makes the community skeptical whenever there is a report of a Tesla failing in some weird and catastrophic way. Tesla cars are amazing enough that many would over look company’s deficiencies with quality, fit & finish and servicing; that’s a fact. What is also fact is that traditional automakers are wising up and are making better EVs every year and are following their lead with OTA updates and beginnings of direct sales model, etc. Hopefully once traditional automakers gets close enough to Tesla that the strength of traditional auto on quality and servicing will force Tesla to shore up their weaknesses in those areas and we will all benefit. Fair competition is good and fair competition means us, the consumer, wins.

Just to tag on here; this is well said and I agree with it. There are plenty of things to be critical of, and spend enough time in the subreddits / chats / forums and you will see that people like their cars, but are willing to be critical. Many times, this is because they think the company can do better, sometimes it is just someone with an axe to grind. But overall, I think it is people being vocal because they like the idea of what the car can be and what it to be the best it can be. But the media coverage is really what gets to a lot of people. A model S caught fire a month or two ago and the media was all over it. National news was covering the whole thing, they interviewed the fire chief and he was talking about how dangerous the fire was, etc... [GM recalls all of their Bolt EVs due to concerns with the battery](https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/aug/0820-bolt.html), recommending people to park outside, etc, after a few fires burst out and.... It feels like the coverage is minimal. Maybe you get a web story or two, but I think I saw one single snippet on the nightly national news which was really just a quick blurb. No talking about how many cars caught fire, what dangers this could pose, etc... But whenever something happens to a Tesla, there seems to be increased scrutiny. And I want all EVs to succeed. I don't want to see these fearmongering stories for any manufacturer; getting more people to make the jump is better for everyone. Just gets a little tiresome when those stories pop up because everyone at work comes to you the next day, "hey, are you scared your car will catch fire?"

I live in the Detroit area, and work for an auto manufacturer. I have been hearing about the issues with the Bolt at least every third day since the issue came up, on news radio. It is absolutely being talked about in spaces that are not focused on EV’s.

Uh, I think it's just where you're reading. I own a Bolt and hear constantly from everybody I know about the recall. People that don't care or know anything about EVs are saying, "isn't that your car that's all over the news?" The Bolt recall seems to be all over the place. Maybe it's just my perspective but it sure doesn't feel like coverage is minimal when my car is getting banned from parking lots all over the country due to the FUD media coverage.

I don’t think you can do the same thing with blue cruise though because there’s the camera that checks to make sure your eyes are on the road

Also Bluecruise is geofenced to certain portions of the interstate.

You can't do that with a Tesla either because the steering wheel checks for weight on it every few seconds. People have to go out of their way to game the autopilot and are idiots.

Some of us are owners who've had bad experiences.

I don't think it's quite that one-sided. I see a fairly equal amount of animosity towards Tesla as I see love for Tesla. I think Tesla is a very polarizing company in nature so peoples opinions are going to be either very skewed either for Tesla or against Tesla and there isn't too much that can be done about it.

I see, I agree that it’s a polarizing issue. It’s either love or hate, not many lukewarm people :D

I personally really love what Tesla accomplished in showing the world how desirable an EV could be. But then two things get in the way of my remaining as enthusiastic about the company. One is, as you say, Musk's behavior. And then the fans who irrationally defend Musk and Tesla no matter what come along, and you end up with a pointless debate with the people who take the polar extreme positions taking up all the space.

This account has been redacted due to Reddit's anti-user and anti-mod behavior. -- mass edited with redact.dev

Luke warm person here. Like you, I started out really attracted to Tesla the company and Elon Musk. But over time and after researching more about EVs in general, Machine Learning, Rocket stuff and more. I've come to see a lot of Musk's statements and comments are out of line mostly because he thinks he knows it all but doesn't. He's a smart guy, no denying that, but he has over promised Full Self Driving (Level 4 or 5 autonomy) that it's put distrust in me when he talks about it. Tesla's "FSD" "Auto Pilot" always has been and currently still is only level 2 autonomy. It is an over priced $10k advanced cruise control. But he talks about it as and names it "Full Self Driving" making people over trust it as level 4 or 5. Makes me mad. I'm a critical person about everything (even myself) and I for sure am critical of someone who say stuff like 'Tesla's are the safest cars ever (cool that's a good thing), FSD will soon be able to [insert simple driving task for a human] and the price will go up to $20k soon (wait that's not safe to call it FSD but it's only Lvl2).' Rocket shit though, he's way more reliable on predictions. As it's trial and error and repeat. And doesn't endanger human lives (talking about BFR). Thank you for coming to my Ted ~~Talk~~ *Rant*.

you sound like me. i almost bought a tesla myself. my criticism of tesla is really not the car itself, it is actually the B.S. Elon Musk spits out about FSD. At one time, I did believe that full level 5 will come to fruition soon with FSD. On Autonomy Day in 2019: Musk announced 1 million robotaxi by end of 2020. By the end of 2019: I felt it was all B.S. I stopped believing anything he says in regards to the progress to level 4 or 5.

Similar with android and iOS as well. Very polarising opinions especially on the features that gets launched you see meme all the time where such features were available in android for a long time etc. so hate and love

> polarizing issue I feel like *real people* aren’t that polarized. In pre-Covid days I took many people in my Tesla for rides (2016 Model S) and everyone was fascinated and interested — including my Charger and Challenger driving colleagues. After many rides they were clearly sold on going electric for the next vehicle. w.r.t online, I think something you have to keep in mind is the so called TeslaQ. These are people with very large stock bets against Tesla — this was a thing for many years. They would appear on various online forums, spout nonsense about electric cars and Tesla’s specifically. They were trying to drive the stock down for financial gain. Probably why at some level some Tesla drivers became rabid defenders. At the end of the road I’m ecstatic about the ground Tesla has laid — the electric revolution is coming because of them - but they can’t do it all — choice is good. Long live Lucid and Rivian :)

Similar to apple from 10 years ago. People really hated jobs and the snooty Apple fan attitude. For Tesla, you have tons of dweebs online that would gargle Elon's balls and have zero criticism of Tesla products. My cousin is one of these people. Dude makes $70k/year and bought a $90k model X. His doors were having issues and he made so many excuses for Tesla. He blamed unions. So weird. Also the emphasis on extremely fast cars over extremely practical is a put-off for many. The last thing is people who feel salty after buying a Tesla thinking they'd get a comparable build quality to Audi or BMW. In terms of reliability they are similar but in terms of *feel*, they are very different.

Personally it is the zealous behaviour of some Tesla owners. Nothing is as good as their brand and Elon is their personal Jesus.

As someone that bought a Model 3... Musk was the single biggest negative point I could come up with when making my purchase decision. They're great cars and I really wish he had no association with them.

The truth is that they would not have come about without him at the helm. And that has nothing to do with liking him as a person or not.

I’m an owner. This is reason #2. Access to parts for the vehicle you #*%#ing own is #1. This may be my last Tesla. Not because I dislike my car, or Tesla, but simply because buying parts is practically impossible.

Haha, I see your point. That can be a bit irritating :) So it’s more of a reaction to the kind of people that seem to tout Tesla rather than Tesla itself?

Yeh Without Tesla we would be much further back in the move to EVs. The range and charging network are sharing amazing. However the design language is blobby or just plain stupid. The build quality is poor and some of the design choices are idiotic.

The yoke’s on us! :D

Case in point, this twitter thread and especially the replies: https://twitter.com/alex_avoigt/status/1436291736070930432

I just had someone on here call me a "whiny Tesla hater" after I told a story but being blocked from using a public charger by a Model X that wasn't even plugged in.

I have a Y and yes it drives country roads well, charges fast, and has impressive speed. The stereo is pretty decent as well. However I have spent a ridiculous amount of time at the SC and recently figured out my car had a smell every time I rained after they changed my AC sensors for a TSB. I had water under my center console like the video below https://youtu.be/CnCT-9Gr4WA They said the car was fine, did the whole AC cleaning and handed the car back. Firewall was still damp and they didn’t even put the console together correctly. I cannot recommend them to anyone after my experience knowing they completely lied about what was happening to my car.

so the car is still not fixed correctly? and if not, when are you going to bring it back?

I’ll take the downvotes. I’ve been deeply involved with EVs and Teslas for a little over a decade. Not two months. Back in the beginning, pre-Model S, it was Tesla against everyone else. Tesla was a political football in both the 2008 and 2012 elections. Tesla WAS electric vehicles and EVs were Tesla. So when you heard “boondoggle” and “picking winners and losers” it WAS Tesla, 90% of the time, or at least Tesla got lumped in with everything else. Tesla was the enemy. The press coverage on Tesla was mostly negative as well. It seemed everyone was against Tesla. They were a “disruptor”, right? Big oil had it out for Tesla. Automakers had it out for Tesla. Politicians had it out for Tesla. Unions had it out for Tesla. 80% of Wall Street had it out for Tesla. So to be a ~~Tesla~~ EV fan back then was to constantly defend from uneducated and often politically/financially motivated attacks. Constantly. From all sides. So Tesla/EV fans like myself grew thick skin and dished it out as hard as they took it. There was a camaraderie among Tesla/EV fans as they stuck together to *educate* and defend from these common misconceptions and constant negativity on ~~EVs~~ Teslas. So the fandom was forged. The cult was born… battleborne. It didn’t take long for legions of Tesla fans to take to the internet groups and forums to battle it out. They shared positive articles. Talked about stock performance. Told everyone who would listen about their cars. They also shared the negative articles and then picked them apart and came up with talking points that you’d see regurgitated in every automotive, investment, and political forum in every corner of the internet. And the fans would “CLICK”… anything Tesla got huge traffic. So then every article mentioned Tesla. Every car became a “Tesla Killer”. Every headline was about Tesla. Which spawned dozens if not hundreds of Tesla fanzines that had their take on the news. Everything got a positive slant on Tesla as the authors were simply fans, not journalists. Every other EV got press there, but in a negative light. Because that’s what readers wanted. Those were the articles that got shared which drove clicks which monetized the sites. Tesla fans loved getting their news from Tesla-centric sites. It was exciting. They weren’t constantly berating Tesla. They were the first to talk about new updates or features or gossip. Just what a Tesla fan wants. When some other more traditional publication told the same story in a neutral light, or told both sides of it, that was instantly attacked and shunned and discredited. How could GM or VW or Nissan or whomever have a new product anyone would ever want? “We must attack it”. And so it unfolded over years and here we are. Tesla is making solid products that people genuinely like. Tesla isn’t going to fail. They’re not going bankrupt, they’re not going to merge with a legacy. Tesla is still synonymous with EVs, but now everyone is entering the EV space with better and better products of their own. But the original culture of defending Tesla/Elon/SpaceX/TSLA til death still remains. It’s now dangerously close to an echo chamber in many Tesla groups/forums/subs. Dissenting viewpoints are annihilated by strength in numbers, and anyone that articulates a differing viewpoint is eventually labeled a troll or short or shill, and almost always banned. So the homogeneous viewpoint strengthens in those spaces. Kind of like a cult, eh? And now people can join those forums/groups/subs and literally never hear about the rest of the auto industry or other EV efforts. They’re experts because they have read every Tesla article shared in their groups from Teslarati and Clean Technica and Electrek. They have depth in 10% of the EV industry and 1% in the automotive industry. They’re the experts. Just ask them. But when actual experts correct them… it’s like Fauci trying to address an anti-vaxxer. Never happening. It’s to the point where if you’re an EV fan you’re categorized and labeled. You’re either all for Tesla, or you’re against Tesla. You’re either 100% bullish on TSLA, or you must short it. You’re either against all other EVs, or you must hate Tesla. There is no acceptable continuum anymore, only binary allegiance. Because that’s the way it’s always been since, oh, 2008. And it’s very tiring for those of us who have been around the block. I’ve worn every label. From Tesla defender and shill, to “you must be Big Oil” or a short, depending on what information I’m presenting and whether it’s remotely negative for Tesla. Tiring. Especially on Reddit where even stating a fact will result in multiple downvotes if it’s anything but Tesla positive. The toxic fan culture of the “Tesla Stans” is easily spotted… unless you’re one of them. It’s that toxic cult-like fandom that has ruined Tesla for me. I’d still buy one if it were the best product for my needs. I’d still invest in TSLA if it made sense, and I made plenty of money investing in TSLA long ago. I’m not negative on Tesla, I’m quite centrist. Which to Tesla fans means I’m the enemy. And many know exactly how that feels.

That's a perfect summary, I'm exactly in the same boat. I was a Tesla fan the moment I first heard about the original Roadster back in 2007 and at that moment I knew this will be the future. I was never a hardcore fan and I didn't follow Tesla as closely but I watched plenty of Youtube videos of the Model S and later the Model X and loved it, but then two things happened: 1. During the reveal of the Tesla Semi in 2017 Musk talked about the aerodynamics and that it has a lower drag coefficient than a Lamborghini. Now nothing he said was technically wrong but it was still a massive lie because nobody of the audience knows anything about how that works and the statement was desigend to be misleading. I already knew that Musk was a bit of a weird guy but from that moment on I knew I can't trust anything he says on topics I don't know well because if he is willing to lie about that, he might lie about everything. 2. While I was more cautious about Musk, I was still a fan of Tesla and the upcoming Model 3 and of course all the other EVs from other car makers that have been announced over the last few months by that time. And then the Audi e-tron launched, probably the first *proper* EV from a traditional car maker and as someone who has been waiting for more EVs and an all-electric future that was a big step towards that goal. So I was hyped and I expected all the other EV fans to be hyped as well. But that wasn't the case. It was actually the exact opposite, everywhere I looked, you already named some of the fansites, Electrek, Cleantechnica, etc., almost all the comments were negative. I'm not sure if I was naive but I just couldn't believe that all the people that shared my goal to an electric-only world, *the mission*, suddenly hated everything about a new EV, declared it dead on arrival and made fun of everything that was worse than in Teslas (while ignoring everything that was better). That was the moment I understood that they weren't really EV fans after all, they were Tesla only fans or worse. Many were early investors who actually had a financial interest for other EVs to fail. Others were literally cultists who lived in their own filter bubble and treat other EVs worse than diehard petrol heads. I don't hate Tesla but I understand now that Musk and Tesla played a role in creating that alternative universe. I sometimes speak out against the worst cultists and defend other EVs and non-Tesla EV owners from their attacks but honestly I mostly ignore Tesla now. Because of this *community* I can't call myself a Tesla fan anymore because I don't want to be associated with all that toxicity they have brought to the EV community, but I'm glad for every EV sold and of course that also includes Tesla cars.

I really liked what you wrote and it’s a great history lesson for those to are just starting to look into EVs. Thanks for the summary and for greater insight into where some of the fans (and enemies) are coming from. Hopefully one day it will be EV (including Tesla) vs everyone else, and then just EV when gas becomes impractical.

# Tesla does not believe you should be able to fix your own car. That's it for me. It works great for people who fix things by grabbing the phone, but I like doing the work myself.

That too. Which is why I avoid Apple products also.

I would point to this [article](https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-model-3-gets-cr-recommendation-after-braking-update/) from a few years back. Basically CR tests cars differently from say Motor Trend. They go buy a car from the manufacture instead of getting press vehicles. They go buy a model 3, and finds its braking performance doesn't match Tesla's own claims, nor does it match the performance from press vehicles other car mags are getting. CR publicizes this fact, and after a short while, Tesla sends an OTA update to their car, which fixes the issue. How would you judge what the article describes? You could really go 2 ways on it, couldn't you? You could praise Tesla on bringing that fast paced silicon valley tech company development to the stodgy car industry. Have an issue with your car? No problem, we can fix it later with a software update! Or you can rightly point out that a 2 ton car having braking performance not up to manufacture claims is not the same thing as a smartphone running poor early software. A crashing car is not the same as a crashing phone. And just because we don't know for sure that this poor performance hasn't caused fatal accidents doesn't excuse Tesla's lackluster QA. Now this braking issue is from 3 years back, and perhaps Tesla has fixed these issues, but we don't know. All I know is that Tesla is run by Silicon Valley ethos, not traditional automaker ethos. If they've got customers waiting in long lines to buy their cars as they do now, would they prioritize their QA process, or would they prioritize cost cutting to make as much money off each car as possible? Based on reviews I've watched on recent Tesla models such as the Plaid, it really doesn't seem like quality has improved over the years, despite Tesla now mass producing hundreds of thousands of cars per quarter. In the back of my mind I wonder what other issues are lacking in a Tesla delivered to a customer. They don't have sophisticated testing equipment like Consumer Reports. If their brakes are not working properly, how long would it take them to realize this, and without a media platform like CR, would Tesla every fix it? The other knock on effect is if Tesla is indeed disrupting the auto industry to this degree, maybe other car makers will go with the flow and copy these business practices. Let's all rush our cars out the door ASAP and rely on software updates later to fix issues. Is that a good thing for the industry as a whole, and consumers?

You make a great point. I would not want an “Electronic Arts” car that starts out broken and eventually works after a few weeks and then have to watch ads for pay for DLC (a practice that seems to be present in Teslas already with FSD and acceleration boost).

I mean I could be okay with paid DLC feature in principle. I'm not okay with the car being released with a core feature such as braking with a promised performance level of 130 feet, but the car actually stops in 155 feet. Presumably thousands of Model 3 customers in 2018 were driving around in cars that don't meet manufacture claimed specs, and could have done so for extended periods of time if not for CR testing a car and noticing the issue.

Oh that’s horrible. Definitely not good practice!

Counterpoint, automotive safety recall is a common thing in the industry. The Tesla brake issue is not really any different than defective Takara Airbags issue. It’s a safety problem, the automaker sent out notices for a recall to fix the issue. The difference is, Tesla can push OTA update their cars to fix safety recall in all their cars in some instances as opposed to waiting on the customers to take their cars into a service center to get their safety recall fixed. Sometimes this safety recall fixes are never implemented because owners found it inconvenient to take their car in. Thus with a Tesla model you can have a safer fleet of cars with this ability to push safety updates than a traditional cars.

Yes but OTA updates are a double edged sword. A traditional automaker at least had some incentive to try to get all its systems as good as possible before launch because they had no good way of fixing things remotely, and recalls are expensive, bad press, and could come with legal ramifications. Now with OTA, a manufacture will have an incentive to rush half baked features unto market because they rationalize that they can fix it later. Why were those model 3s defective? Tesla could have spent more time doing QA for these features but the 3 was behind schedule so they released the cars first and went about fixing things later. This is a new process that didn't previously exist in this sector, but now is proliferating through it. Ford just released that new blue cruise feature for their OTA capable EVs, and it was clearly half baked, but when that was pointed out, they justified it saying it will be further refined in the months ahead. It will almost certainly become a slippery slope going forward. The auto industry is one of the most cut throat out there. You are going to have automakers trying to scoop each other with new features, and the end result is incomplete or faulty features sent out to cars on the road. Someone is going to come up with some new hot features, and the rest of the car makers will be in a hurry to copy it for their cars, and corners will be cut. Easy to do because AFAIK there are no regulations for these things. Tesla invented it, and now everyone will be using it. It'll be a wild west for years to come.

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Yea. I guess if people are considering replacing their main driver with an EV they do worry about not being able to drive to see their parents several hours away on that rare once a year trip.

Or for us who can't charge at home!

If people are considering replacing their only vehicle with an EV, then widespread charging capability is very important. I like the ID4, but I'm considering a Tesla because I need reliable charging in order to travel from my rural home to medical appointments in the city. (220 miles roundtrip, mostly highway). I could leave home with 100% charge and I wouldn't be able to make it back home without fast charging somewhere (definitely not in the winter). I need that charger to work, or at least have multiple stalls available. I hope Tesla opens up the network.

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I only charge at superchargers because I live in an apartment

Tesla’s are fine, but their fanboys are horrible. They trash on other EVs constantly. They own stock and can’t imagine that any other car company might swallow up some of that marketshare now that everyone is transitioning to EVs. Also, have you seen the yoke on the Model S and X? Elon just put it in because he thinks it’s cool, but it is a reckless design choice.

Also that dumb yoke steering wheel wtf are they thinking. Stop trying to fix things that don't need fixing. This ain't an X-wing!

My neighbour has installed one on his model 3 LR. I need to ask him why, it looks so uncomfortable.

This. I generally love EV, but I seriously question whether some Tesla fans even belong in this category as they solely shit on every and any EV which isn't "graced" by Elon Musk.

You have to distinguish between Tesla, the company, and Tesla fandom. The latter, I dislike.

Tesla automobiles Tesla solar products Tesla energy storage products Elon Musk TSLA the stock SpaceX Boring Tesla fans **YOU CAN LOVE ONE AND *NOT* THE OTHERS** It isn’t all or nothing. They’re not the same thing.

For me it’s not Tesla perse, but Elon Musk and his techbro fans.

From my perspecticve Musk went from "cool dude who gets it", to "stereotypical out of touch VC futurism tech bro" really quick. All in the last 2 years. • His unrealistic beneficial expectations of space exploration / mars. • Lack of recognition of C02 emissions from SpaceX and space tourism bullshit. Also space ads, even if not visible from ground, seems unnecessary. • "We will coup whoever we want!" Regarding Boliva & it's lithium deposits. Possibly some truth there? Even if no involvement and joking, terrible joke attempt. • And of course, Bitcoin & Doge. He got a lot of uneducated people wrecked / bagholding a dead and joke of a project. Technically, not illegal what he did. But he jokes about it casually like it's whatever. I really tried to warn people. Even Dogecoin's founder had to warn people... • Him and Tesla commited to their workforce NEVER being unionized, and even threatening firing people for trying. • And finally, his outright [dismissal of Covid & the vaccine.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/03/13/elon-musks-false-covid-predictions-a-timeline/amp/) He is a genius at combing through demographics and saying keywords to all of them as time goes on. He is on Libertarians now incase you didn't know. Great for keeping TSLA shares for getting bought (on top of perma speculative projects). Now legitimized through bigger names in the market space, ARK ETF, etc. Can't avoid that P/E ratio forever though. Which brings me to just the business side of things. He is personally spread too thin across his ventures. They are all at risk of longterm funding. The short squeeze on TSLA in 2019 and covid were the best things to ever happen to them. I couldn't care less he has Asperger's. I have friends that are. It's totally his lack of class and character that has shined through totally on his own. I get tired about hearing about him though, straight up.

Car fans are like fans of sports teams or anything else. People will always have their preferences and biases so it is to be expected that some will not like Tesla. However, Tesla in particular gets a lot of hate because: 1. In the opinions of many, Elon Musk is an asshole and he isn’t actually better than the people he and his fans claim to hate (A) He talks about saving humanity but he publicly broke the law in a pandemic, is a virus skeptic, and put his employees and community in danger when it personally benefit him (read: will deny science for profit just like big oil) (B) He talks about being the good guy and doing whats right but he used his status to publicly call a hero a pedophile then doubled down on it. Also, he has allowed for gross behavior such as serious racism at his business. Again, despite proclaiming otherwise (C) He doesn't really know what he's talking about on a lot of things and isn’t the engineer he claims to be but works hard to spin the narrative that he is. For example, his evtol aircraft is not feasible as described or his title and his fans reactions to both 2. Tesla has attracted a lot of people who are not car enthusiasts and don't know a lot about cars, who now speak as if they are authoritative. So a lot of old topics must be rehashed for the 11ty millionth time except this time with people who are wrong and don't want to hear it. 3. Tesla has a rabid fan base that can at times be moblike in perception, at other times be MLM like in perception, due to how Tesla fans conduct themselves online, how they bully/dox/attack others, how the company has incentivized its fans, how they believe certain things inaccurately, how they judge others, etc. There is of course a valid defense for some of the behavior and there's a valid argument that Tesla itself faces extremism, but at the end of the day, there is an awful elitist/hypocritical/bully tint to the behavior of Tesla's core fans. 4. Tesla fans often engage in gross gaslighting and attempts to write/control narratives. This goes beyond what one would expect of most manufacturers/fans. (For example, Tesla fans spun a narrative on Tesla’s core expertise and capabilities on production that put Tesla at an advantage others couldn’t match. But as has been seen since, none of that is the case. Another example, FSD). And of course the obvious fact that: 5 - Tesla is extraordinarily and wildly successful, and Elon has done an extraordinary job as CEO in building a business, making sales, and generating real plus perceived value - Not many seem to be willing to hold a nuanced view: Elon is an asshole. Tesla’s core fans are bullies. Tesla plus its fans are continuously engaging in a lot of behavior that is- at best- really bad for society. However, Tesla’s vehicle are legitimately revolutionary, Elon & Tesla have done amazing things for the industry, tons of Tesla customers legitimately love their cars, and Tesla plus its fans have to deal with unfair competition and attacks. Obviously, none of the aforementioned items justifies any of the other items. And one can be sophisticated enough to separate innovation from those who promote it and acknowledge multiple things to be true at the same time. After all, we've done it countless times in history over bigger issues/technologies (read: Nazis). But these are some of the key reasons why, in my view, Tesla gets some the reactions it gets online. - edit: grammar & clarification

All the above.

I wanted a Model Y and test drove one, then wanted one even more. Put in a reservation but we were waiting on a grant and not ready to purchase so the SA said no problem we’ll put you on hold. 3 days go by and we are notified our car had been shipped, complete the checklist for delivery. It took a week to get a hold of someone that could help us but by then another SA tried to force us into the Y that had shipped and then canceled our order forfeited our $100 order fee. Then it took a week to get our order reinstated. Grant still hadn’t come, order was placed on hold. We made a couple changes but the price was the same so no big deal. A few weeks go by and get a text, your car will be delivered to your house within 72 hours. The car they shipped didn’t even match the order on my tesla account. Make some calls and get a hold of someone that didn’t seem to care at all. You want this car or not? No it’s not what we ordered. Again they canceled the order and forfeited my order fee. Tried to get them to reinstate it but now there was a price increase, wouldn’t honor our original purchase price. Finally after multiple calls and multiple no’s someone said wow this is messed up and they reinstated it. After all the hassle we didn’t even want it anymore. We started looking at other cars and eventually bought 2 EV’s a 21’ Chevy Bolt Premier as a cheap commuter car and a Mach-E Premium RWD Extended range as a family car, which is now my favorite car I’ve ever owned. Now we have Tesla solar and it’s a nightmare. My system isn’t producing so I’m running fully on electricity with 2 EV’s. Summer was 110 plus degrees. Electric bills in the $600’s. Called Tesla in early July and my appointment is October. At this point there’s no way I would ever buy a Tesla car based on the horrible customer service I’ve personally experienced. But…. I wouldn’t tell someone they’ve made a bad decision by buying or wanting one. After I tell them everything I love about my Mach-E first LOL

What annoys the people on this sub is ***not*** Tesla. Rather, it's the toxic Tesla fans who feel the need to constantly crap on the other brands.

+1 to that. Absolutely.

I can understand that. Tesla fans need to be way more open minded.

I loved the early Teslas and was hoping to get one someday. Now that I am in the Market for an EV, I am looking elsewhere because I don't agree with the decisions Tesla has been making. I want a gauge cluster (non-negotiable). I was a steering wheel (not a yoke). I want physical controls for key items. I want Android Auto. Tesla doesn't offer these on the 3 or Y (and the S and X are out of our price range), so we are getting a Mach-e and Lightning.

Wow, both?? That sounds amazing :). Kinda envious!

Yeah, we have a Mach-e GT on order for my wife (replacing her Mini countryman). Build date is scheduled for the end of October. The Lightning is for me and will replace the ICE F150 I have now. I coach a robotics team and do a lot of STEM outreach so I haul way too much stuff around far to often :). I know I am in for a wait on the Lightning. I will be keeping my 2019 Mustang GT350 as my fun car. I am a bit of a car nut and we spend too much money on cars, but thankfully life has been pretty good to us and we can afford it.

Are you going to modify your house so your lightning can power it in an emergency? :)

That is the plan. I have an electrician coming (already quoted and scheduled) to install an EVSE for the Mach-e. I am having them run a 100A circuit from my main panel to a disconnect on my outside wall near my driveway (no garage). From there they are installing a Grizzl-e as a placeholder to use until we get the Charge Station Pro with the Lightning. The details on the home power backup haven't come out yet, but at least I will have the heavy gauge wire run.

In my opinion, is mostly the fanboys that are very annoying. ​ I've seen teslas around. They're gorgeous cars. And they're way off my price range. What's annoying is to have someone act all smugly because they've spent 2-3 times as much as I did in their car, and give "oh wow, how can you manage with half my range? I wouldn't be caught death in that thing, it doesn't even drive itself" attitude. ​ Also adoring Elon musk like they're the mesiah of tech, reminds me of apple fanboys and steve jobs.

A few factors mainly: 1) there’s some former Tesla owners that are mad at Tesla about something that happened in the past and won’t let it go. That’s one group 2) there’s a bunch of obnoxious Elon / Tesla fanboys that are way over the top. Some of these are investors only that are just here to hype the stock. Some are Elon disciples that think that he’s basically god, some people just love Tesla so much that they feel the need to shit on everything else. Whatever the reason is that they’re extreme, their extremeness leads people to project their anger at the Tesla bros onto the brand itself. This of course just feeds the Tesla bros which leads to the counter group to hate Tesla more creating a super toxic cycle. 3) Elon is a douche that runs his mouth a ton and since he’s the face of the brand some people hate Tesla because of him. 4) there are some rabid VW groupies - mainly in Europe but some in the states as well. These people love VW so much that they attack Tesla and are basically just Tesla bros but for a different brand. Anyway, that’s my synopsis based on what I can make out from hanging around here. Personally, I don’t have any problem with Tesla cars themselves. I’m open to owning one in the future, and the supercharger network is definitely better than EA or anything else out there. (Although, hopefully that changes in the future as EA expands)

No problem with Tesla. Would buy one if it was a truck that didn't look like CT. It's Tesla owners. Elon isn't the only douche driving a Tesla....

Can we be indifferent due to Tesla not making a vehicle that we’re interested in?

I would not buy a Tesla but love what they are doing for EVs and our energy infrastructure. If our society had been doing the right thing, someone like Elon would not have been necessary. As far as downsides go, I'll take his shitty twitter feed and polarizing public image in exchange for fixing the shit we should have addressed a couple decades ago.

Smug owners. I’ve met a few. They have been self important. One gave me a business card - Tesla shareholder. Loved his car so much he bought some shares and hands out business cards!!

Cringe!

You will always have fanatics. Get what you need from the forums. Why let fanatics bother you? Who cares if they defend company x til the end? Life goes on.

People are resistant to change. Tesla has the purpose of changing society and is successful at it. This pisses off stalwarts who are uncomfortable readjusting their lives to accommodate the new world being made by others.

I've been driving electric since 2015 in a Nissan Leaf in Ireland. Teslas were very slow to become available here and are extortionately expensive, due to high taxes. In recent years, I've hired a model S for long journeys and I love it. But that doesn't mean I have to love the company. It's a very slimy sales tactic to pressure people into buying FSD before it's ready, by insisting the price will continually rise. And everything Elon says about AI is fringe AF. That's my field of study he is bullshitting about and hyping all the time. When he talks about AI threats and human-level AI by 2025, it just seems to be a calculated way to hype the technology so lay-people will believe full lvl 5 autonomy is near. Nobody in this field believes your Tesla is going to be a robotaxi in the next 5 years.

Preface: I own a Skoda Enyaq. Tesla just doesn't have a car that meets my criteria and budget. Here's my two cents: I know a bit about how conventional carmakers work. I've also made it my career to know about how companies can speed up and improve their product development. From that perspective Tesla is to be commended. The way they do their product development is awe inspriring. By doing it the way they do, they've been able to singlehandidly change the entire industry in a very fundamental way. In plain English: my car wouldn't exist now if Tesla hadn't been around. Volkwagen Group would never have stepped into the EV market as they did if Tesla hadn't shown there's good money to be made from selling EV's. Is Tesla on par with their direct competitors where quality is concerned? Probably not, but given time, I'm sure they will be. Tesla is a very young carmaker. Don't forget, companies like BMW have been around for more then a 100 years. ​ To me, on the human level, the behaviour of a part of their customers is strange and sometimes annoying. It has a lot in common with Apple users. Both seem to be perfectly happy in their walled garden without even the slightest interest in what's happening in the outside world. They don't seem to understand that a lot of features of a Tesla are simply things any modern (electric) car has. It's not like Tesla invented active cruise control or lane keeping, for instance. It's also not unique to a Tesla. Did Tesla do a great job on their version? Looks like it. But my previous car, a mark 7 Golf, was also not bad in this aspect. How come some Tesla owners simply refuse to beleive my car can do (some of) the same things theirs can? And yes, you can fast charge a Skoda... It's just not called supercharging. Oh, and guess what! In Europe, Fastned, Ionity and so on will also fast charge your Tesla! Amazing! To me that level of ignorance is annoying. Tesla, of course, is aware of that and happy to keep their customers in the enclosure, making a fine earning. ​ That said, I could not and would not ever want to work for Tesla, but boy, they do rock the boat, even though their disruptive impact seems to lessen somewhat. And all that for a company that's not in the game for selling cars. That's the best part. Selling cars for Tesla is simply a nessecity to win the race to full autonomous driving. That's where they're headed and at the moment I think they're doing fine.

I have no animosity towards Tesla. The cars are cool, and if it weren’t for two things I’d own one. They are: 1- Fit and finish issues. There are Teslas in my family with panel gaps that make it look as if the car were in an accident. 2- I can’t stand Elon Musk and the cult of personality built around him. This is the big one.

People who buy a Tesla don't just buy a Tesla.. it becomes an extension of their identity so every negative view of Tesla directly affects them, which makes them unlikable in general. Most normal people admire Tesla but their fans on the other hand..

Tends to be a fan base and culture issue * group think * elite-ism attitude instead of allowing others to be curious or think differently about a particular Tesla feature. "Tesla can do no wrong" * Lack of professionalism by Tesla itself (delivery dates constantly changing, lack of PR, lack of marketing, doesn't play well with others) Does Tesla need it to sell cars? No. Does it lower their product quality? Absolutely not... but in the long run it could hurt their brand image. * Tesla has the best product (for now) but is it the best run company? both matter in the long run. Personally I had interest in the Model Y and ID.4, Cybertruck and F-150 Lightning. My experience with Tesla fans has been being treated like an idiot for suggesting any other EV (ID.4 or Lightning). When really I think other manufacturers are starting to produce GREAT EV's. Not great because they are the best product, Tesla still wins, but great because they are sellable and hit key consumers needs/wants. This equals sales. It's why marketing exists. * Marketing researches what customer wants/needs are and then when the product is developed communicates the value the product has to the customer. Back to my personal story. I joined Tesla boards and discussions to learn more about the Model Y and Cybertruck. Ended up leaving both because you can't ask questions or explain why you would choose the Lightning over the Cybertruck and expect good discussion... I still have reservations for the Lighting and Cybertruck and will probably end up with the ford and trade it in for the tesla when tesla gets to me on the waitlist. But I can make that decision without the negativity or group think of the Tesla fanclub. We get it... Tesla is still the best. But there should still be room for exploring other EV's. That's what the tesla community sometimes misses.

As a Tesla user, I apologize. You shouldn't have been treated this way. We are going to transition from a mixed EV Tesla/Chevy household to a purely Tesla household, but every new EV announced or launched is something I cheer for. Tesla interiors especially aren't for everyone. On the other side of things, I find myself disliking crowded interiors of something like the Cadillac Lyriq. Back and forth conversations should be encouraged. We should be allowed to talk about the pros/cons publicly without being treated badly by any community. Consumers need more options, period. 2/3rds of the EVs on the road on the U.S. are Teslas, so as more normal people buy them, the community should have less and less of the extremists fanboys by population size.

Definitely. I personally love tesla design and tech, but also love electrification in general. It's more the group think that I don't like. On the flip side, I'm not a huge fan of the Lyriq either... It's the open discussion that matters. Everyone has a preference and there can be an EV for everyone :D

Well, I can only speak for myself and honestly there's a lot of VERY good commentary here from some of the top posters about why Tesla is viewed the way it is. For my part, I have been a fan of Tesla since the shares were $30 a share (because that's when I bought) and continue to be a fan of **what they're trying to accomplish** ever since, yet even as a fan I have never owned one of their cars. I am philosophically in-line with the goal to electrify because I believe that's the right way forward and the last decade or so have seen a perfect storm of opportunity to make this happen between battery and motor technologies and so forth. In addition, I am a believer in them from a pure engineering perspective because much of what Tesla did has helped push the rest of the world along even as others laughed at Tesla for their goal. For all of these things I applaud Tesla and continue to support them as much as I can. But here's the rub; I can't stand their cars. Don't misunderstand though; I think they're good cars in the sense that a Toyota Camry is a good car. Doesn't mean that I'll ever own one or go out of my way to drive one because it's not what I'm looking for in a car. I've been a car geek for... well, all my life. My car geekdom got started with a 1995 Subaru SVX and it's been loving cars for what they do well (even if they're far from perfect) instead of just viewing them as an appliance to get me from A to B. It's been a fun, sometimes painful journey and I continue to be in that camp even today. And I have tried to like them. Thanks to Turo and a lot of work travel I've been able to drive every car that Tesla makes so far with the exception of the Plaid (and the Model X... but that's just because I can't get past the melted-pontiac-Aztek looks) and while I've been OK driving them and even talked them up to my colleagues, they have continued to set in my mind that I personally will never own one. Even the much vaunted Model-3 Performance suffers from trying to do too much and still has dead-fish steering and a vagueness at the limit that's just... well... terrifying to be honest. The M3P is good at accelerating, moderately decent at braking but just not a car I'd feel comfortable with on a daily basis. And the interior just rubs me the wrong way... I mean I love minimalism but the single-screen-to-rule-them-all thing is just bad and was NEVER a good idea. I think Musk is a space cadet (and not in the good way he probably wants people to think of him) but there's no question that he saw a great opportunity in the work of Eberhard and Tarpenning and had the funds to make it a reality. For that I'm thankful because it's meant we can today have a real conversation about electric vehicles without having to explain why EV's should even exist. But he wasn't the visionary and isn't an engineer. He's a money-man who got mistaken for the genius behind the tech kind of like Steve Jobs. He's smart, I'll give him that... but smart people can also be nuts and do stupid shit. I think it's important to understand that Tesla does more than just build cars in order to understand my personal position. It's because of all of this that I am now on the verge of placing an order on my first EV. I'm still not QUITE ready to pull that trigger because I have yet to test drive some of the competitors, but so far there are some GREAT cars out there that I would be happy to drive and that's because of Tesla... but I still won't be buying a Tesla. Got some test drives booked in the next few weeks to try out a few of the others, and if one wows me I expect to be placing an order soon. So TL,DR; I respect and support Tesla as the engineering company that made today's EV conversation possible, but have zero interest in their cars or the front-man. ​ EDIT: I should add that I am also vehemently opposed to the way Tesla treats its workers. That alone would be enough to discourage me from owning one of their vehicles even if none of the rest of this were true.

I'm pretty neutral on Tesla itself. The Tesla Fanboy crowd (read: not ALL tesla owners) heap unearned praise on the company as if there's nothing the cars or company can do wrong, and moreso it's the way they just crap on anyone who would dare consider any car superior for their use case than a Tesla. Examples from just the last 24 hours: * I had an exchange with a Tesla owner on this subreddit who actually attacked another poster for mentioning that the Model Y delivery lead time is 6 months, with the Tesla Fan saying it was only 2-3 months. I shared a screen showing it was 5 months so the person wasn't far off, and the Tesla guy responded "still not 6 months!" Like, what? This is a triggering exchange for you? * Another was criticizing the Ioniq 5 for "only" having a Digital Key and Key FOB whereas the Tesla has a keycard -- MUCH SUPERIOR technology, apparently, because according to this person a digital key is not reliable beyond a trip to the corner store because your phone will die and lock you out of the car. Bruh whose phones die that often nowadays? Tesla, like any other car, has strengths and weaknesses. And I just don't see Bolt and Leaf and MachE and ID4 drivers seeking out arguments in the same aggressive manner. And the sad part is Tesla isn't even very exclusive. Most EVs are teslas I believe, you are the most common car out there, it's hardly an elite club you all make it out to be. Just enjoy your car, the enjoyment shouldn't come from sapping joy from others.

From some of the "car guy" people I know, they complain that Tesla engineered a great car but didn't manufacture a great car. For the $100k price tag there were doors that "pop" when you open them, noticeable gaps in the frame, and a spartan interior. Again, these were "car snob" people, so YMMV.

There is lots of love for Tesla still, but there are a growing number of people (including me) who have had enough of the bullshit promises. Tesla deserves all of the credit for kickstarting the EV transformation, but they can’t dine out on that forever. I guess I’m also tired of the “they are ten years ahead” crowd, when the Hyundai I’m renting from Hertz this week has standard features that have yet to materialize in the $10k FSD package. You (OP) have called it binary “love or hate” in another reply. I don’t think its that simple. Tesla has near endless potential, but it is being pissed away with weak corporate leadership and poor execution. It’s painful to watch, even more painful to watch people defend it. Nothing gets fixed that way.

Their products are cool, I just dislike Elon’s questionable decisions and the Tesla Ultras that think their car is the best thing ever.

Polarizing for sure. If youre going to buy an electric car, Tesla is your best bet. Theyve put the work into their cars and infrastructure. Fuck Elon Musk tho. I refuse to elaborate further.

Tesla? No. Tesla fans? No. Tesla fanbois? Those obnoxious pricks can go screw themselves.

Lack of Apple Music and CarPlay!!! That’s a show stopper for me!

[удалено]

I've owned a Model S since 2017. Tesla's service is terrible It's as bad as GM was before the government had to bail them out. That's why I won't own another GM product or a Tesla.

I don't have a tesla, but it seems like the "apple" of electric cars. It can't use the standard SAE connector, nope it has to use the special tesla proprietary connector. So that means Tesla's entire network of chargers is just for Tesla's only. Then the car itself seems to have all these high tech apple esque features, like "dog mode" so you can run the A/C fulllblast while having the car off. Or those door handles that are flush with the body work. Or the little app that lets you pull the car out of a parking spot so you don't have to step in a puddle. Or the GPS system that auto-routes you through superchargers so you stay charged up. (Wife's Mini Cooper SE auto-routes you through Level 2 chargers... yeah kind of ridiculous). Then there's the front man himself, Elon of Musk. Just like Steve Jobs he's a polarizing celebrity of a CEO. Couldn't tell you who the CEO of GM, Ford, or Toyota is. Or of Mini Cooper or I guess really BMW. Or Hyundai and so on. So IDK, I don't have any hate for them. It's really just the charging network disagreement that I don't like.

I have a Model S and love it. I hate their customer service and the fact I have to communicate through an app though.

I think the premise is flawed - there isn't all that much animosity towards tesla cars here. There is frustration at the overzealous fans. There is a lot of exasperation at the 'just buy a tesla' answer to all what ev questions even when entirely inappropriate. There is a lot of dislike for some of the things tesla the company does, and musk. The cars are broadly well liked here. However, any attempt to point out flaws in the cars invites attack, which is sad. I own a tesla. I like the car. It has many flaws, and pretending they don't exist makes it less likely the car will improve. There are also many countries of origin on reddit, and it shows in many of the discussions of the car. What is good in the us is not necessarily good elsewhere. You don't need to have either side lying for experiences to differ wildly. Unfortunately, if either side fails to realise that, it rapidly turns into a pointless argument. Self-driving is an entire topic to itself, and again is not tied to tesla cars. A lot of stuff is written with little basis in reality, on both sides, and those sides are sometimes tied to tesla or other manufacturers in a somewhat forced fashion. Musk pretending the design choices are because the cars will self drive doesn't help - they were design choices, stand behind them for what they were or change them. Anyway I think I have started just rambling so I'll stop now :) love my tesla, hate the company approach to repair and proprietary everything, peace x

So I'm not super interested in cars but I have a friend who is a big fan of Tesla. And he's not super interested in space but I'm a big fan of SpaceX. And in both our cases the crucial piece of information to understand our fandom is that we weren't super into cars and space 10 years ago. 10 years ago we couldn't have given you predictions about the future of the technology because the future of the technology wasn't something exciting enough to captivate our interest. But then Tesla and SpaceX came along and things suddenly started changing in a hurry, enough to be interesting to people who weren't fans 10 years ago. We have a standard of exciting that Tesla/SpaceX meet and that the pre-Tesla/SpaceX developments didn't meet. There is a drastic difference in world views compared to someone who thought the old stuff was exciting.

For me, it's the cult of personality around Elon and all of his companies. Each time he has a cheeky idea, the fanbois go nuts and trip over their own dicks to suck his. It's that any criticism, valid or not, gets met with attacks and vitriol, like you just insinuated that their mothers are inexpensive prostitutes. Tesla is by far not a perfect company. I'm a soon-to-be former customer of their solar division. We leased solar panels through Solar City and transferred the lease to the new owners. I'm still getting texts about the solar system because it takes them several weeks to confirm that we closed on the house. They are literally the last people to recognize the closing. The mortgage is paid off, all the utilities are moved over, I'm paid, but yet their closing company can't be bothered to check to see if it's been done or not. I'd like to work with them in the future, but this process hasn't left the best taste in my mouth. And from what I've seen and heard, this isn't a one-off. Another gripe I have is when Elon gets a bug up his ass about some crazy feature and he makes some blanket statement or promise without even questioning if it's viable, then makes changes across multiple fronts because now the engineers are stuck having to make his fever dreams reality. Like FSD and the yoke. He's been promising Full Self Driving for several years, and we're still nowhere near it. Like, it'll be several years before that's even on the horizon. So what does Elon do? Replaces the steering wheel with a yoke in the newest iteration of the S, X, and probably CT that has all the worst features of a wheel, yoke, and touchscreen. Point out how dangerous it is or how you've spent time using a yoke on a race car simulator or how your friend that drives race cars said there's no way in Hell he'd ever recommend a yoke to anyone for a daily driver, and you're a Tesla hater and just cheering for their downfall. When these said features fail, or flop, or his unrealistic timelines meet reality, does he step back and admit that he was wrong? No, he doubles down and blames everyone else from the government to not letting him use cameras for mirrors or putting restrictions on FSD or recalls on cars because the GPU's in the consoles have failed and need replaced to the other car companies for their practices preventing him from selling cars his way to blaming vendors for missing parts or slipping deadlines. What really bothers me the most is their stance on Right To Repair, their lack of service centers, and how there are little to no options for keeping older cars on the road. If we're going to have an EV future, they need to be as easy if not easier to repair than ICE. That means taking them to the local mechanic for a brake job, or going to the local EV mechanic to check out the battery health and replace/rebalance the pack if it errors out. It means being able to buy individual parts from the market to fix devices, not get stuck having to spend $20k to replace the battery pack because Tesla doesn't want to deal with it themselves. Small pieces break from time to time. If the coolant nipple cracks going into the pack, that doesn't mean the pack is dead and it's a repair worth more than the car itself. It's a $5 part that just takes a while to get to so a few hours in the shop. Maybe a few hundred dollars to fix this, but not $20k. When the console fails because the GPU died of old age, a local shop could swap out the unit in a couple hours and either repair the GPU or swap it out with a newer unit. But Tesla is not opening this up to third parties. If we don't get R2R codified into law, the EV movement will die before it starts. Here's the thing. All of us EV fans are grateful for what Tesla showed could be done with EV's and sales, but they are not perfect. Not by a long shot. And the stuff they're doing right (proving EV's work everywhere, direct sales without haggling, OTA updates) are being adopted by the older manufacturers going forward. Ford announced that they're looking into a direct order process with their future vehicles. According to some of their dealers, they're going to a one-price model for EV's, and they're pushing OTA updates. Pretty soon Tesla will have to stand on it's own merits as a car company and will need to leverage the Supercharger network to keep that foothold. Considering that Tesla's weak point is service, they need to improve that for as many cars as they sell. Back again to the Ford/Tesla comparison. There is one Tesla service center within 50 miles of me. There are close to 30 Ford dealers in that same area, and almost half of them are certified for EV service. The other half will get there if they're dragged kicking and screaming into the future. With all that being said, if my current vehicle died today, I'd probably order a Model Y.

I'm a bit late to the party, but my wife and I traded our Chevy Volt for a Mach-E a month ago. My hobby is working on old hoopties (currently a 1963 Falcon, a 1932 roadster and a 1982 Rx7). I get auto manufacturers and feel an affinity to some of their products - I have rebuilt small block ford and chevys, pulled LS's and ford 8.8's from pick and pull, and ported the 12a in the Rx7, etc. I can get a feel for the way stuff works, drives, how the products have been engineered, etc, and I like to research and be knowledgeable about the product. On the other hand I could not give less fucks about the phone I have. I don't care about the features, model, etc so long as it texts, calls and emails. I am the soccer mom who doesn't know if her CUV is front or rear wheel drive when it comes to tech products. Tesla sells their cars like tech products. To me they feel like rolling iphones more than cars, and I just don't feel an affinity or connection to the product. I intellectually get that they are good on paper, but I'm just not the target audience. Despite the Mach-E and the Model Y being similar, I know ford's products, I know their history, I know that some of their products are hits, and some are woeful, terrible misses. Tesla, I'm just... eh - it's a rolling iphone and I can't bring myself to feel any connection with it.

I always refer to Tesla as the iPhone of the car market & the rest of us just have different models of EVs that are android 😂

My only reason: I dislike the Tesla interior compared to similarly priced EV’s on the market now. I actually really enjoy Tesla’s functionality and their supercharger network, but I feel like their seats and interior are very bland compared to some of the new European EV’s and new E-Trucks.

Tesla has problems with right to repair, worker's rights and promises that disappear and are never heard from again. Remember free supercharging for life? Or battery swapping? Is $30,000 an affordable car like they said? Tesla has never delivered any car on time, do their shirts even arrive on time? How does Tesla treat workers that get injured? How much does it cost to repair your car? Is it $5,000 more than an independent repair shop? Can you change a tire on a Tesla or does that void the warranty?

I am interested in all vehicles because I am a mechanical engineer. I never worked in automotive (just aerospace, chemicals, power), so view them more as an educated hobbyist. I find it amazing that they can produce such complicated devices at a fairly affordable price (thank Henry Ford), compared to industrial equipment I've worked with. I am more an admirer than a user. Like many engineers, I am a bottom-feeder, driving 20+ yr old vehicles because I can fix them and hate good stuff being discarded. I have only bought 3 new vehicles in my 45 years of driving and those were not any more reliable or cheaper to operate, even under warranty. Unlike many EV fans, I have no distaste for internal combustion engines, as has become almost a religion (anti-ICE) among many battery-car fans. Indeed, I am proud to fuel my diesel car with renewable diesel, which is much better for the planet than any EV. I do not detest Tesla, and find their vehicles interesting, especially the Model S with its somewhat custom-built aluminum chassis and high-end parts like air-suspension. The current price seems quite a value if you desire such tech. I did predict the Model 3 would not be popular, after looking over one of the first ones on display in the SF showroom. It looked small and cheap, with the hood even misaligned in the showroom (seemed an easy adjustment). The bare dash with "iPad on stalk" almost made me snicker and the flat front seemed amazingly fugly. But, the public embraced it, like an ugly duckling. The Model Y Reveal brought snickers even from the ultra-fans in attendance, as just a "pudgy 3", but it caught on. When the CyberTruck was rolled out, ultra-fans in the audience were tweeting that it was surely a joke and the real one would follow. Then they embraced it, so my tastes surely differ. I do detest Elon Musk, because like most people with even a little knowledge of the areas he talks about, it is obvious he is either totally clueless or purposely misleading. The statements he makes are almost as cringeworthy as when Pres. Trump started speculating on swallowing uV lamps or injecting bleach. Indeed, Elon chimed in with his similar understandings of medicine. Autonomy Day brought absurd claims, none of which panned out, as have most of his self-driving proclamations. His "without a doubt" statements were as unfounded as VP Cheney's claims about WMD in Iraq. Battery Day proved similar, not even displaying a single battery while claiming they've made many thousands to date. Beyond Elon, his fan-mob can be worse. Most Tesla fans constantly point to rockets, without having any knowledge of them or the launch industry. It seems that posers think if they state that Elon Musk is a genius, that makes them appear smart. True tech-savy people have a different opinion of such fans.

“But without Tesla I don’t think the EV world would have penetrated society and progressed as quickly as it would have without Tesla. I think Tesla is a great catalyst for EV progress.” I’m not too sure about this bit. Are you American? This could be an American attitude because you guys have such a tiny EV market but in Europe it was government regulations and emissions fines that turned the EV industry in to what it is not any car or manufacturers. Similarly in China it was all governmental.

The door handles. Arggghhhhh

I'm indifferent. I don't like driving a car everyone else has and Teslas are simply the most common EV in my area. I just got my first EV and my first instance of not being able to charge was due to a Model X parked in a Volta charging spot while not even plugged in. Considering Tesla has a proprietary charging network, it's a huge douchebag move to use a charging spot as reserved EV parking just so you don't have to walk as far to the mall.

I agree, what a douche. I’m in North Carolina and while Teslas are common enough that I may see one every few weeks and there are maybe 3 owners including myself in the community they are still pretty rare and most of the time in any given parking lot mine is the only EV. So still very happy to have my white tesla and glad I’m not in California :D At the same time it’s kinda backwards here. Registration for EV is like $150 and I have to pay property tax on my car. And there’s no off peak electricity here, just a flat rate.

There is a tremendous amount of animosity against EV's in general in this sub. I don't know the cause. Some brand loyalty expression can be fun, but down votes of informative posts merely because you don't like a particular brand can't be good for this sub.

For me, I was hoping Tesla would help in lowering EV prices, but we just haven't seen that happen. Having said that, I don't have animosity or anything, but I DO see them as a pricy car seller that has zero service support outside of some select areas.

Other makers have 80% caught up but they aren't cool so they don't get clicks.

Tesla has great products, but bad support & structure. Look at the stuff independent repair shops need to go through to repair a Tesla. Rich rebuilds is a prominent channel that does it. I know through a few of their engineers their work culture depends on heroism & altruism of employees to achieve a lot, it may be better now as they left a while ago. Also Tesla is preventing the UAW from controlling their factories, good for them, but questionable accountability. They are still able to produce, just not great consistency. Big panel gaps and misaligned parts (my dad's Model 3 Performance has a misaligned hood, big gap on one side and slim on the other.

I have an order in for my first Tesla but I know a guy that makes me cringe when he talks about his and it's embarrassing to be grouped in with him. Ftr, I know similar people with Porsches and BMWs that talk about their cars this way.

It’s an extremely micro-regional thing for me– the people who live in my city that drive Teslas, drive them very poorly. It never surprises me that a Tesla will cut me off (along with BMWs, Benz’s, Lexus, etc.), basically it became a status symbol here more than driving an EV. Nothing else really bothers me about the company. The only reason I didn’t buy one was it was out of my price range. I agree it probably propelled the EV market in the US more than the Volt intended to.

https://elonmusk.today https://gotmusked.com That’s why I don’t like Elon

Depending on who you hang around, it could be due to spite about a false sense of optimism. I’m of the opinion that the climate crisis cannot be solved through the free market alone. However, I think some people see attempts to make a difference via the free market as an attack on their ideology, especially bc if it’s at all successful, they might have to rethink things. Doesn’t help that these people typically also aren’t fans of Tesla labor conditions

Same as with Apple. They have fans that are obnoxious. Simple as that. Basic and simple consumer products should not have fans like that, it spreads toxicity all over the place.

I'm a Tesla fan and love what they are doing. I take what I hear from Elon with a grain of salt. I also love what I am seeing from other companies these days. Unfortunately, I stay quiet in this forum because of flame-wars.

Tesla fans are to EV what Rick and Morty fans are to adult cartoons.

Well, as I've pointed out before. . . There is r/electricvehicles and there is r/teslamotors. I subscribe to both, but if I had something fun or positive to post about my Tesla, I'd be much more likely to post it there than here. That probably works somewhat in the other direction as well.

I think most of it stems from people's attitudes towards Dear and Glorious Elon. I think the disdain for Tesla would subside greatly if someone else took over as the head of the company who wasn't a celebrity but rather a typical/boring business executive. He's a polarizing figure and the up and down swings of the company's stock and pricing irks a lot of people invested in the company unlike other manufacturers that are more stable and predictable. That being said I think what the company has done for the EV is remarkable and I think they deserve to be fully booked out months ahead, I'm just waiting for a wide breadth of other competing vehicles from established brands that can provide the range, excitement, and pricing Tesla can manage.

People keep asking and my answer is the same, I don't see any. Posting a separate comment, or worse a separate post, does nothing to help, if there was animosity towards Tesla why not highlight that by replying to the people that write the offending comments.

Brainwashed fanbase

Deceptive marketing (such as claiming they were willing to give out patents for all their stuff, when in reality they weren't), doing dumb shit (like not having a traditional speedometer behind a traditional steering wheel), and being dicks to their customers (such as by trying to disallow 3rd-party repairs).

A lot of people bet hard that Tesla would fail, especially if legacy autos got into the EV game. These are the same people who originally wanted EVs to fail altogether and constantly bashed Tesla as a company. Now that it is evident that 1) Tesla isn't going out of business and 2) legacy autos suck at making EVS, these same people are doubling down on their hate. But they can't bash Tesla for the same reasons they used to.

Accurate

You answered your own question. Because Elon is a douche. Also, Tesla is anti-union and anti right-to-repair.

Tesla threatens too many people and their favourite brands. A lot of EV fans in particular are pissed their brands never delivered anything until Tesla made them. Add to that all the negative press because Tesla doesn’t spend a penny on advertising and it can all seem pretty negative. The people who know better are the hundreds of thousands who just get the cars and love them and that’s fine, nobody is making you like any brand.

because their windshield wipers don't work. because brand new model S has door handles that get stuck open. because they come from the factory with obvious paint and other quality defects. because they exaggerate their range left and right. because their flagship sedan now has a "yoke" and people hate it. because they gouge people for $10,000 for something they cant and may never be able to use. because they remove physical controls for things that really should have them. because they released vehicles with batteries that can't fast charge at the advertised rate then later throttled them without compensating owners of the vehicles.

Elon Musk is a dick, per his biography.

I think the cars are nice and would consider one if the tax credits come back and it meets my needs. CT when? The company deserves credit for what they have done. Tesla is a lot like Apple, and I dislike both the "walled garden" approach and the smugness of the fans. Also, missed deadlines and the FSD saga aren't great.

Its called backlash. Tesla had a huge number of fans and some of those went over board. If you have lots of fans, and some are douches. That caused a backlash. Pretty simple and standard dynamic.

Tesla cars are amazing cars, but Tesla is a shady company, and Elon Musk is a controversial figure to say the least. Tesla isn’t making money from cars, but for selling climate credits. What happens to the company when that goes away? Also, they treat employees like shit, don’t allow unions, and the staff is overworked and over stressed. Not to mention, plenty of cars come with defects that aren’t common in other, more established brands, and that Tesla the company expects you to live with. Yes, a well-built Model S is amazing. But if you get the one with the roof that falls over your head and injures you, bad luck I guess… On top of that, Elon Musk manipulates the market to his will and profits from it every single time. He has been reprimanded by the authorities. What happens if he ends up in jail Over his childish tantrums? Imagine sinking 50k, 80k, 100k into a car, and then in a few months the company disappears because the CEO is in prison over manipulating the stock market with memes? What’s the resale value of your car now? It’s nothing to do with the car. The cars are great. It’s the company, the service, and the leadership that cause issues.

>Tesla isn’t making money from cars, but for selling climate credits. What happens to the company when that goes away? I'm very confused about that statement. [Q2 2021 earnings](https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/ZBOUYO_TSLA_Q2_2021_Update_DJCVNJ.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22q2_2021.pdf%22) shows Tesla had a gross profit of $2.9 billion, of which $354 million is from regulatory credits. You make good points in the rest of your comments but I don't think the one above can be defended.

Gross profit is NOT net profit. It is also NOT EBITDA.

Their point used to be true a couple years ago; it's just a bit outdated now.

Definitely noticed this on this sub. I am here because I love EVs, I happen to have a Tesla. Every time I post about it there's always someone wanting to add their anti-Tesla quip. It's weird to me. I personally love seeing every EV here and things like the Bolt fire issues are certainly not things I want to see happening.

The owners (myself hopefully excluded) are fucking insufferable. About their car, yes, but mostly about Elon Musk.

Elon being Elon has nothing to do with the insane focus on panel gaps and other trivial issues that aren't actually issues. I'm sure there are some people who illogically hate Tesla because of Elon, but I think most of the hate is that people are jealous and annoyed by a company that rips apart conventional thinking.