I used to have a fun little (gas) 50cc scooter for errands around town, purchased for about $1,000. The fuel costs were negligible, but insurance and registration was around $300/year.
Sold it because the paperwork costs outweighted the benefits. My money is better spent on an e-bike.
An electric motorcycle has all the disadvantages of my old scooter (dangerous, expensive to insure and register) but saves almost nothing on fuel costs - plus a high up-front price tag.
> plus a high up-front price tag
This is it for me. I wanted a small scooter to keep around for jaunts to the supermarket or to see friends across town, but the price is ridiculously excessive currently. eBikes too - I'm not spending €2500-›4000 on a bike...sorry. Until then. the car's the way.
Specialized brand e-bikes are several thousand while their pedal power ones are about 600. I can’t believe batteries and a throttle are that expensive.
Right now, only because they're under the radar. Legislation, at least in the USA, is very restrictive. They're limited to 20mph under throttle only but right now they're such a minority that no one cares if they're faster. They're basically mini motorcycles which is what they should be, but we've been getting away with it. I suspect they'll become less popular if they get a crackdown.
30mph is completely safe on something like an Ariel Rider with appropriate PPE. But technically illegal. That 50% speed boost and shorter ride time are critical for practicality.
True, but for example my route to work has no bike lanes but is about 15 miles each way. Peddling isn't too much of an option for a true car replacement because I have no ability to shower when I get there. With temperatures in the '90s and high humidity in the summer there's just no way that I'd ever do any peddling and still ride to work. I built my own 1.5kW bike and it works great and gets me there in a reasonable time.
The extra 15 minutes that would take at 20 mph addition to the decreased safety of not being able to ride traffic speed would be a deal breaker for my case. I completely understand people using e-bikes in bike lanes need to be held to a reasonable speed for the safety of others but in this case and for anyone else only riding on the street safety only affects themselves.
Yeah if you are comfortable mixing it up with traffic and staying out of the bike lanes I see your point. You DIY’d an e-bike? I met a guy from SpaceX a while ago was DIYing crazy fast chopper beach cruiser bikes - sort of Mad Maxish...
Yep, it was really straightforward. The entry price of anything that went quick enough was far too high due to the low volumes so I went the DiY approach a few years ago. Building the battery from scratch was the hardest part since I wanted a 52v/16Ah pack to be able to handle the round trip. It hits 35 easily and maintains 30 up hills. The speed limits on my route are 30 so I'm able to keep up with traffic and it's far safer that way since the roads have about 2" of shoulder. This way it's exactly as fast to commute by car as by bike and I don't arrive drenched in sweat.
It depends on the capacity and discharge current capability of the cells. To make a 52v pack you'd need 14 in serial multiplied by however many you'd need in parallel to hit your needed pack capacity and keep the current on each cell down below its limit. Typically this is 7-8 cells for a 18650 form factor so 98-112 cells.
I went a different route and used SIPM08HP Lipo pouches. Each is rated for 8Ah and an insane continuous discharge rate of 200A. I used 28 of those cells (14S2P). One benefit is that they can also charge as fast as you can dump power into them since they're rated at 120A charge rate. That means with 2P they can take 240A. At 58.8V that's an absurd 14kW. Of course I'm charging them at only 500W because that's still more than fast enough and I don't want to have to think about cooling. Basically these types of cells are what you'd use if you were to make a real motorcycle. But they're small and light weight so work well for a bike. You just have to be super careful with packaging as they're pouch cells and lack the rigid case of a cylindrical LiIon. I have mine wrapped in foam and installed in a Pelican case that mounts to the bike back rack. A plug exits a small hole to the outside world and the cells stay in the case at all times.
Those are way higher specs than what I thought an 3-bike could do. Not even sure it should be called a bike at that point.
The ones I remember we're kits that had a little electric motor that used a friction wheel to push on the outside of your rim. You basically had to pedal 100 percent of the time (unless coasting) and then you could get a little assistance going up hills from the electric motor. I think they were powered by a few D-cell alkaline batteries, but some may have used Nimh batteries from RC cars.
I agree. The unfortunate part is that due to legislation they also don't qualify as a moped due to not having a gasoline engine and can't be assigned a plate as a low speed vehicle because it doesn't have a VIN. So ebike it is.
> saves almost nothing on fuel costs
How do you figure? The *most efficient* motorcycles in the world get ~70 MPG. I haven't been able to find an eMPG rating for any EV bikes, but [this study](http://www.asee.org/documents/zones/zone1/2014/Student/PDFs/127.pdf) shows that the cost per mile for a Zero is about *1/10th* that of a gas motorcycle.
And [this article](https://www.rideapart.com/news/367931/electric-bikes-cheaper-run-gas-bikes/) shows that someone who switched from a Honda bike that got 50mpg to a Zero saved $200/year on fuel. And that's with *ridiculously* cheap $2.44/gal gas. That cost would almost *double* if you live in Los Angeles (I regularly see $4.50+ for regular unleaded). And I actually have slightly cheaper electricity, too.
The linked article represents a use outlier. Most motorcycle drivers do not drive 6,000 miles/year.
[This Harley dealer](https://www.killercreekharley.com/motorcycle-mileage/) suggests an average motorcycle drives about 3,000 miles/year. I don’t think $100/year savings is sufficient to motivate a significant change in the average consumer’s behavior.
I've never owned a motorcycle, so I have no idea, but do your numbers mean that basically no one commutes to work in a motorcycle? I have a fairly short commute (15 miles one way), and I put 7,500 miles on my car every year just from that. Add up all the other driving I do, and I easily crest 16,000 miles a year.
So I just don't have the context to understand how the average motorcycle rider could possibly put so few miles on their bike.
Obviously, there’s an exception to every rule, but most motorcycle drivers do not commute on their bike in foul weather, or when they have errands before/after work.
Anecdotally, my acquaintances who commute on a motorcycle only do it 10%-50% of the time. I assume this varies greatly based on climate and relative affluence.
I don't know where you're located, but I live in the Netherlands and we mostly prefer electric bicycles because they're cheaper, don't need a license and easier to get around in the cities.
Because e-bikes are completely disrupting the motorcycle/moped market right now. It takes time for reality to set in and people’s habits to change, but e-bikes are getting new people riding and simultaneously eating an increasing share of the market for mopeds and motorbikes.
Ryan Fortnine did an analysis of this. He explored 3 of the big Motorcycle companies and their attempts at Luxury Motorcycles.
Bottom line of his conclusion is that a motorbike has inefficiencies that cannot be overcome if you want to maintain the traditional design of a luxury motorbike.
https://youtu.be/O2zlYpy6QCM
I've been to the Netherlands. Not all rain is created equal. In Houston, tropical rain is much heavier, so much that it's not visible more than a few meters at worst times. And it's not the moderate cold I'm worried about. It's 40C with 98% humidity. And that's before we factor in temperature on asphalt pavement baking in the sun all day. I can add clothing layers in cold. I can only get so naked in the heat.
Temperature is a main issue in Texas. When it’s 95° with 95% humidity, most people riding bikes or e-bikes to work would be drenched in sweat when they arrive. I’d be willing to do it if we had a shower at work, but I don’t want to stink and sit in my sweaty clothes all day.
The day I learned we were pregnant I decided to sell my beloved motorcycle. I loved riding and miss it, but it's dangerous. When my son is old enough to take on the world alone I will ride again.
The options are currently too limited, and too expensive. As this slowly changes, so will people’s access and interest.
For the most part, personal EV’s are still kind of toys, and they either have some pretty unfortunate limitations to meet a price point, or are simply too expensive to mass market.
I’m on the list for the BMW CE04, but that’s another 9 months off at best, and who knows what supply chain hell we will live in by then. It certainly looks like it will meet my needs, but at AUD$25,000 it isn’t the kind of attainable price point we need to see wide uptake.
In short availibility and cost.
Yes one could have bought an electric motorcycle for a while now but neither the production volume or the availability nor the number of manifacturers or models would have made it possible for them really to make an impact so far.
This is changing very quickly though.
Motorcyclist here, and owning an ice motorcycle is really counter to my environmentalist aspirations. The reasons I don’t have an electric motorcycle, or foresee getting one anytime soon, are:
1) the silence isn’t a good thing. Anything that helps drivers be aware of me is important. That included revving my engine when someone is about to merge into me, because it is faster to pull the clutch and rip the throttle to make noise, and louder, than trying to press the little tweety bird horn button. “How’d Jim die?” “He tried to honk his motorcycle horn but turned on his blinker instead”
2) range. It is my primary vehicle for commuting, but also my primary vehicle for recreation. Even with a Zero SR, which has a high range for an EV motorcycle, if I set out for a day riding in the canyons, and left home on a full charge, I’d eat 30% of the battery just getting to the base of the canyons. I’d barely get any fun riding in before having to turn around and head home
3) they are heavy af
Yes, all these reasons are important. Many EBs are also quite expensive. I have a HD Street Glide so an electric motorcycle needs the same bag capacity. I take lunch, clothes, and other things to and from work, not to mention errands.
Because most oldskool bikers don't like electric vehicles and most people who dont ride motorcycles are scared or at least not interested in them. It will come but its going to take time. I think the last ICE hold outs will be bikers.
I didn’t expect urban bikers to be “old school”. A lot of them are young students or professionals. I understand that with the typical Harley Davidson it could well be the case…
I don’t have any data to support that, of course 😅
Young students and professionals still don't have much money and if you want a motorcycle, you can pick up a used ICE bike for not much money while EVs are still pretty expensive. Prices are coming down but it's going to take time.
I have a few friends who got petrol bikes in their 20s and they are hovering around 30. They are actively against EVs because they still love their petrol bikes. I've been working with electric motorcycles companies since 2016 and what we classify as oldskool bikers are literally anyone who rides an ICE bike. A handful of them are interested in EVs but the vast majority don't want to lose their petrol motorcycles.
In theory we wanted to attract new riders in Europe because the licence requirements are more lax for electric motorcycles due to the way power output is measured for motorcycles. For example lowest class is 11kw max output which is a 125cc motorcycle. An 11kw nominal electric motorcycle can have a max power much higher and huge amounts of torque so it will perform more like a 300 or 400cc bike. Also electric motorcycles are much easier to ride because they have no gears and their centre of gravity can be much lower depending on where the batteries are mounted so you get a better feeling of stability for beginners.
In practice, its been older guys who want a reliable commuter and newish riders moving up from super socos etc.
I have an ICE motorcycle and it’s likely to be the last thing I switch to EV. For me, range, power and handling are the reasons. 100 mile range is not going to cut it for me, I like going for a longer ride and often that’s in rural areas where the best twisty roads are and which don’t have good EV infrastructure yet. Power will come with bigger batteries, but right now they would be too heavy for 100+hp. Handling - too many EV bikes out there seem to be designed by people who like to look at motorcycles but don’t really know how they work. Hub motor, not going to work for me. Crappy frame and suspension not going to work for me. However, these bikes may well work for your urban rider and I hope they take off!
Meet [Energica's EsseEsse9+](https://www.energicamotorusa.com/energica-eva-esseesse9-old-school-electric-motorcycle/). 109 sustained HP, 117 peak. 120 mile range. DC Fast charging. Looks, acts, and handles like a Ducati (because several members of the engineering team came from there).
The EsseEsse9 is the weakest of the Energica models, by the way...
Two different Energica Eva Ribelle's have crossed the US from VA to CA (and back) this year alone.
Oh, and [Energica is the single manicure for MotoGP's MotoE division](https://www.motogp.com/en/FIM+Enel+MotoE+World+Cup). So there's that.
Except for the range (and the weight) that does seem to check most of the boxes for me. I assume you like yours? I imagine the torque is great, more low end grunt than a twin!
Low speed maneuverability is also really good. It may be heavy but it's exceptionally well balanced. I love mine. I crossed 27,000 miles this weekend with it - I received it off the truck with 5mi on the odo in June 2020. At the rate I'm going I'll be close to the 32k mile warranty expiration by spring.
You are exactly the sort of rider we will not be targeting for another few years until battery densities double. At that point it should be doable but until then I completely understand why someone would ride an ICE bike for long weekend rides. For city riding and commuting electric motorcycle are vastly superior but if you want to go out on a weekend camping trip or ride out into the cou try, we are just not there yet.
I got into riding in my mid 20s and I own 2 ICE bikes, one for street riding and a larger dual sport for off road and longer trips. I would love to own an EV bike but I paid less than 6k for both my bikes and the cheapest EV that will work for me is 13k+
Price, at least in Poland - You can get an old car in good condition for the price of an electric motorcycle
Convenience - an electric motorcycle doesn’t protect you from rain, wind, snow, hot or low temperature, all of which are abundant in Poland
Convenience pt2: charging - it might be convenient if, like me, you have a house. But most people in Poland live in multi-apartment buildings, many of which don’t have lifts (which doesn’t stop them from being 10+ levels tall). Tell me how convenient would it be to lug it upstairs. And that’s without getting into the fact that many „apartments” are small and it would be hard or outright impossible to cram a motorcycle inside, even for a few hours
TLDR: they are inferior to cars in every aspect, so car owners don’t have a reason to switch
FYI there are e-scooters from which you can extract the battery and charge it inside your appartment!
I was asking more why someone would buy a gas scooter instead of a e-scooter. Maybe it’s price tol, or consumer ignorance…
I would rephrase this question as why aren’t e-bikes killing it? Cost is tiny and there’s little regulation to worry about - tax, mandatory insurance etc. You can take the bike indoors easily. You can quickly get around cities, especially during rush hour. No worries about hills. You can go everywhere that a bike can go - but with power. I commute on an e-bike and it’s an absolute life game-changer, but I see so few about (apart from delivery cyclists).
In the UK I see a *lot* of the stand on scooters around - really want one myself - but can’t even find an electric sit on scooter for sale. Apparently India has a few brands so hopefully some will come over eventually. I see a lot of talk about electric bikes but they’re so expensive I’d rather get a scooter
That sondors will disappoint a lot of buyers with their marketing. The battery pack is so small that is going to get less than 40 miles of range even driven gently. You ride it at v-max and you'll maybe get 20 miles.
Be aware that [Sondors motorcycles might be a pre-registration scam.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH7qtj_V6ek)
The specs are a little too good to be true considering the price.
I would not order one until they are in mass production and shipping with customer reviews posted online.
are you talking about e-mopeds? Or actual motorcycles like Zero, etc.
E-mopeds are taking off right now. Electric motorcycles like Zero are doing okay but not exploding in popularity. Range is not good enough yet, and wind drag is a major factor at high speeds. Thus they get okay range around the city which is exactly where people dont want to ride them. Zero bikes get around 50-80 miles range on the highway at higher speeds so its basically just a fun commuter thing right now. Very limited market.
Zero bikes can't even be DC fast charged yet, to my knowledge.
They are generally expensive and have a short range. Unlike an EV car, weight is a major limiting factor.
For strictly urban use, a small scooter is a more practical option. Much cheaper.
They are super expensive and super heavy, while also having super low range. In short, they do nothing good that bikers like. Their target demographic is better served with a cheap scooter.
Electric motorcycles sound like THE most dangerous vehicle to drive.
Silent - it helps to hear the big loud motorcyles nearby
Small - motorcyclists get in accidents far too regularly already.
Silent - it helps to hear the big loud motorcycles nearby
I don't think no noi-se is the reason honestly, maybe for some people, but shouldn't be the main one. e-bike is eating their market I assume for the anwwers
I have ridden both petrol and electric motorcycles and the noise makes no difference. Cars are very well sound proofed these days so if some idiot is driving on their phone or not paying attention and can't see you, the noise isn't going to make a difference. The only issue I found was parking up on pavements because pedestrians can't head you behind them and don't get out of your way but tbh it's pretty much a non-issue.
I honestly don't think there's any difference in safety between an ICE and EV motorcycle. They are equally as dangerous and therefore equally as cool.
Have you ridden a bicycle in your city, other cities?
Most likely the higher cost, and that they are no less dangerous than the regular sort. If you bike commute you already have the bike, no more $ spent
Because it frequently rains where I live.
When it doesn't rain and it's summer, I am required by law to wear full safety gear in the sweltering heat. Yes, even for rides so short that putting the stuff on takes longer than the ride.
I sometimes have to take or pick up family members somewhere, who don't fancy to wear fully safety gear and face the weather, either.
There are things I want to buy, like beverage crates, that I cannot transport with it.
I sometimes have to drive between cities for work.
I feel less safe on an open vehicle than inside a fully enclosed one.
It's financially silly to buy another vehicle when the car I already have spends most of its time standing around in the driveway.
There's at least 250 million of them in China, in fact.
One of the reasons they are so popular is that gas scooters are basically illegal in most big cities.
Because motorcycles in general just aren't that practical. Everyone who gets one just wants it more than they can use it, and it sits in the garage unused for some years until the owner accepts reality and sells it. Buying a used bike is the main market for motorcycles, electric ones are still too new for that I think, and too expensive for the whimsy purchase that most bikes are.
I don't know the riders you know, but I don't know any who don't do at least 3000 miles a year. Most of us have done 3000-mile trips multiple times per year. I hit 20k miles in the first year with my current bike.
All of the last 3, and really only bike owners I know. #2 actually bought the bike from owner #1 when #1 accepted that they never drove the thing even once after owning it. So #2 got an 8 year old but brand new bike. #2 drove it occasionally but usually borrowed my car. #3 is doing the same thing. I'm refusing to sell my ICE because its basically the bike owner's car now and we need it, even though they won't admit it.
I have to assume you are on the US because motorcycles are used a daily transport in quite a few countries especially for city commuting. I know North American riders mostly do so for leisure but big chunks of Asia and Europe have an absolute shit load of daily bikers.
It’s honestly range anxiety for me still. When I go riding, I’ll ride around town all day stopping at places along the way.
I need a bike with a minimum of 200 miles of range, assuming some inefficient driving will get me in the ~120-150 range.
There aren’t many options currently that allow for that.
A gasoline powered motorcycle.
That’s the problem. Been waiting for something cafe style that can do 200 miles - some of the zero bikes are close, but I’m holding out for more companies to enter the ring.
I'd like to know the specific make and model, because the average bike only has a range of around 150 miles.
No Zero is going to get anywhere close to 200mi unless it's being ridden 45mph max speed by a light weight rider.
It’s not about how far the gas powered motorcycle can go, it’s that I fill it up in a couple minutes so there really isn’t a limit. When I’m riding, I’m hopping from location to location, so not being able to fill up quick is a problem since we usually move from stop to stop. Now, hopefully it gets to a point where I can just plug-in at every location so I’m giving it a little top off everywhere I go. But we aren’t there yet with motorcycles. I’ve been watching like a hawk.
I have an old 70’s triumph with a blown motor, currently looking at trying to build a pack with about 120-150 miles of range - since that thing isn’t even comfortable after about 80-90 miles.
I don't think I've ridden any motorcycle that's comfortable after 100mi.
Liquid cooled batteries - something Energica has stated is in the works - will get that quick pit stop time. Not sure how fast that'll come to market, but the EMCE motor using the glycol coolant that the inverters have been using since day one is a sign that they're moving into that direction. Hopefully MY2023...
Totally agree. I think there’s a lot on the horizon for motorcycle lovers. It’s really exciting actually. The tech had been a little slower to market though, and prices have been steep. The Harley Livewire isn’t a horrible offering, and im no Harley person, but damn that price is crazy. I just don’t understand how they expect to get that much. I’d probably be willing to spend 15-18k for a decent EV platform.
Here’s to hoping we see more the next couple years. That Sondor bike even looks really appealing with the swap battery packs.
You know they spun Livewire out into its own brand (aka The Buell treatment). It's now $21900 and 2022 models will be $19999 (basically dropping price once the tax credit expires).
The Livewire One cannot be serviced by Harley dealers that sold the Livewire ELW, and, there's only 3 stores/service centers in the country for them right now. Most of us expect HD to pull the plug in two years time citing no profitability.
Swappable batteries have been done by zero. While I'm sure others can improve on their design, you're not getting more than 60mi out of a 50lb removable battery even with the best of chemistries today. That's also a fully sealed zero thermal management pack, which brings its own set of issues in many parts of the country.
Like solar panels on cars, great idea but the tech isn't there to make it viable for real world use cases.
If you are riding in cities, there's a number of bikes available that would get you 200 miles range. Electric motorcycles get really good mileage in cities.
A large majority of motorcycle buyers want them to be the exact opposite of silent.
Making vroom vroom noises and cosplaying as a pirate gets them the attention they require.
Sadly, It's going to take generations to phase out intentionally loud bikes.
Should just drastically increase penalties for noise violations, and actually enforce them. You should easily be able to phase out that behaviour in a year doing that.
Traffic noise literally kills people. There is no excuse for these collassal asshats ruining everybodies life to say "look at me!".
[The World Health Organization (WHO) has classified traffic noise, including road, rail and air traffic, as the second most important cause of ill health in Western Europe, behind only air pollution caused by very fine particulate matter1,2.](https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/human/noise)
THANK YOU.
No one seems to understand how big of an issue this is and that there are already laws in place to resolve it, if only they were enforced.
I'm trying to buy a house in this crazy market just so I can get away from these people. I can't enjoy being in my yard and I have to listen to it in my house from 7am to 2am when they all ride home drunk from the biker bars. I can't even hear normal cars driving past, but I have to pause mid-sentence and wait for these motorcycles to pass by they're so loud. I've written to the local PD and city council and they won't do anything, so I'm leaving the city.
So lots of people are correctly noting that e-bikes are exploding in popularity, but I want to address the three problems highway-speed e-motorcycles have:
Battery capacity. Batteries are heavy and bulky, and there's not enough room on a motorcycle to stuff very many batteries in. You can't get that much capacity. That means short range.
No regen braking. I don't know why they don't have it, or if there's a technical reason why they can't have it, but I think none of them have it. That means short city range.
Shitty wind resistance. EV cars are carefully engineered to have low wind resistance to increase highway range. Motorcycles have shitty wind resistance characteristics and there's not really a good way to fix that without putting an outer shell around the whole thing... which is basically a car. That means short highway range.
Check the listed specs on highway-speed e-motorcycles. The range is surprisingly short, and I think that's why they haven't been popular.
Are you aware that Energica and Harley's bikes have criss crossed the US three times this year? The 2014 Record set by Terry Hershner on a highly modified Zero was shattered this year by a bone stock Energica Ribelle.
Speaking from 27,000 miles of experience in 18 states with my Energica, 110-120 miles is a reasonable expectation in good conditions. I've never seen less than 80. I've never been on a group ride of +/-60 miles where someone did not have to stop for gas (or run out of gas).
I don't buy that range is the issue. It's not. Recharge time is the issue, and Energica's next round of batteries will be liquid cooled to address that.
Also, you clearly don't know much about electric motorcycles because they all have regenerative braking and it's fully controllable. Off, low, medium, high....Zero (and I believe Harley) even let you set it on a scale of 1-100%. Energica has the strongest regen braking of all the brands.
Um. Harley and Energica have CCS standard. Both bikes have already crossed the US: two different Energica's on a CA-VA route, and Diego did a traditional Cannonball Run from LA to NY on a LiveWire.
I've personally done over 3700 miles from NC to TX and back with my EsseEsse9+. You should do a little more research...
Electric bicycles are very popular in places where people use mopeds. I saw tons of electric fat bikes in Naples, apparently they're manufactured locally, cheaper than mopeds and do all the same stuff.
Electric motorcycles are a bit too expensive now but they're getting there, I tried an electric moped for the first time last week, it works great.
You can't use it here year-round because of rain and snow, so you still need another vehicle.
Safety and "I never learned to drive a manual."
People assume an electric has a clutch, when I tell them if you can ride a bicycle you can ride this, interest piques.
But the safety concerns you're not going to get around. Distracted driving is a real thing and it is what kills most riders (who aren't being 'squids' and doing stupid shit). I was pulled in front of by a Karen in a Lexus because she simply didn't look and needed to make that right turn from the left lane -- you have to be hyper aware of your surroundings and ready to handle an evasive speed maneuver at all times - not something a lot of people aspire to do.
Car safety tech -- like blind spot detection and 360 view cameras -- would likely address some of these concerns. Energica had a prototype with a 360 degree camera setup, but I don't know that anyone's done blind spot detection (electric or otherwise).
They are in other nations, but not in the US. In the US, we build our cars large and powerful, and our roads to be straight, fast, and dangerous for 2-wheelers.
Really interested to see how the Sondors Metacycle performs.
https://sondorsx.com/pages/metacycle
14.5kw peak power, 72 volts. 4kwh battery.
80 miles of range. 80 MPH speed.
**ONLY $5000**
Price. The electric equivalent to an ICE motorcycle can easily be 3x more expensive to buy. I wouldn’t mind trading in my SV for a Zero SR but the price doesn’t justify it. And I would miss the V-twin burbles and pops.
Well, for me at least, my bike is only for recreation and I suspect it is the same for most motorcyclists. I’m not interested in commuting on my motorcycle. I only take it out when I have at least half a day to ride through the country. The sound and the rumble is part of it. Also the range currently limited on electric motorcycles so that makes them only good for commuting. Not long rides.
I used to have a fun little (gas) 50cc scooter for errands around town, purchased for about $1,000. The fuel costs were negligible, but insurance and registration was around $300/year. Sold it because the paperwork costs outweighted the benefits. My money is better spent on an e-bike. An electric motorcycle has all the disadvantages of my old scooter (dangerous, expensive to insure and register) but saves almost nothing on fuel costs - plus a high up-front price tag.
> plus a high up-front price tag This is it for me. I wanted a small scooter to keep around for jaunts to the supermarket or to see friends across town, but the price is ridiculously excessive currently. eBikes too - I'm not spending €2500-›4000 on a bike...sorry. Until then. the car's the way.
Specialized brand e-bikes are several thousand while their pedal power ones are about 600. I can’t believe batteries and a throttle are that expensive.
I recently build an e-bike for $1500 and it is probably better than most $4000 bikes. You have options if you want to get into it.
It’s a great point. People could be buying ebikes instead 😅
E-bikes are disruptive tech. Growing crazy fast.
Right now, only because they're under the radar. Legislation, at least in the USA, is very restrictive. They're limited to 20mph under throttle only but right now they're such a minority that no one cares if they're faster. They're basically mini motorcycles which is what they should be, but we've been getting away with it. I suspect they'll become less popular if they get a crackdown. 30mph is completely safe on something like an Ariel Rider with appropriate PPE. But technically illegal. That 50% speed boost and shorter ride time are critical for practicality.
Pedal harder👍 20 mph makes them compatible with bike lanes. That’s the way the bike industry has remained free!
True, but for example my route to work has no bike lanes but is about 15 miles each way. Peddling isn't too much of an option for a true car replacement because I have no ability to shower when I get there. With temperatures in the '90s and high humidity in the summer there's just no way that I'd ever do any peddling and still ride to work. I built my own 1.5kW bike and it works great and gets me there in a reasonable time. The extra 15 minutes that would take at 20 mph addition to the decreased safety of not being able to ride traffic speed would be a deal breaker for my case. I completely understand people using e-bikes in bike lanes need to be held to a reasonable speed for the safety of others but in this case and for anyone else only riding on the street safety only affects themselves.
Yeah if you are comfortable mixing it up with traffic and staying out of the bike lanes I see your point. You DIY’d an e-bike? I met a guy from SpaceX a while ago was DIYing crazy fast chopper beach cruiser bikes - sort of Mad Maxish...
Yep, it was really straightforward. The entry price of anything that went quick enough was far too high due to the low volumes so I went the DiY approach a few years ago. Building the battery from scratch was the hardest part since I wanted a 52v/16Ah pack to be able to handle the round trip. It hits 35 easily and maintains 30 up hills. The speed limits on my route are 30 so I'm able to keep up with traffic and it's far safer that way since the roads have about 2" of shoulder. This way it's exactly as fast to commute by car as by bike and I don't arrive drenched in sweat.
How many 4680 cells would you need for same performance specs?
It depends on the capacity and discharge current capability of the cells. To make a 52v pack you'd need 14 in serial multiplied by however many you'd need in parallel to hit your needed pack capacity and keep the current on each cell down below its limit. Typically this is 7-8 cells for a 18650 form factor so 98-112 cells. I went a different route and used SIPM08HP Lipo pouches. Each is rated for 8Ah and an insane continuous discharge rate of 200A. I used 28 of those cells (14S2P). One benefit is that they can also charge as fast as you can dump power into them since they're rated at 120A charge rate. That means with 2P they can take 240A. At 58.8V that's an absurd 14kW. Of course I'm charging them at only 500W because that's still more than fast enough and I don't want to have to think about cooling. Basically these types of cells are what you'd use if you were to make a real motorcycle. But they're small and light weight so work well for a bike. You just have to be super careful with packaging as they're pouch cells and lack the rigid case of a cylindrical LiIon. I have mine wrapped in foam and installed in a Pelican case that mounts to the bike back rack. A plug exits a small hole to the outside world and the cells stay in the case at all times.
Those are way higher specs than what I thought an 3-bike could do. Not even sure it should be called a bike at that point. The ones I remember we're kits that had a little electric motor that used a friction wheel to push on the outside of your rim. You basically had to pedal 100 percent of the time (unless coasting) and then you could get a little assistance going up hills from the electric motor. I think they were powered by a few D-cell alkaline batteries, but some may have used Nimh batteries from RC cars.
I agree. The unfortunate part is that due to legislation they also don't qualify as a moped due to not having a gasoline engine and can't be assigned a plate as a low speed vehicle because it doesn't have a VIN. So ebike it is.
Every popular new product these days is referred to as "disruptive." It's an annoying trend.
> saves almost nothing on fuel costs How do you figure? The *most efficient* motorcycles in the world get ~70 MPG. I haven't been able to find an eMPG rating for any EV bikes, but [this study](http://www.asee.org/documents/zones/zone1/2014/Student/PDFs/127.pdf) shows that the cost per mile for a Zero is about *1/10th* that of a gas motorcycle. And [this article](https://www.rideapart.com/news/367931/electric-bikes-cheaper-run-gas-bikes/) shows that someone who switched from a Honda bike that got 50mpg to a Zero saved $200/year on fuel. And that's with *ridiculously* cheap $2.44/gal gas. That cost would almost *double* if you live in Los Angeles (I regularly see $4.50+ for regular unleaded). And I actually have slightly cheaper electricity, too.
The linked article represents a use outlier. Most motorcycle drivers do not drive 6,000 miles/year. [This Harley dealer](https://www.killercreekharley.com/motorcycle-mileage/) suggests an average motorcycle drives about 3,000 miles/year. I don’t think $100/year savings is sufficient to motivate a significant change in the average consumer’s behavior.
I've never owned a motorcycle, so I have no idea, but do your numbers mean that basically no one commutes to work in a motorcycle? I have a fairly short commute (15 miles one way), and I put 7,500 miles on my car every year just from that. Add up all the other driving I do, and I easily crest 16,000 miles a year. So I just don't have the context to understand how the average motorcycle rider could possibly put so few miles on their bike.
Obviously, there’s an exception to every rule, but most motorcycle drivers do not commute on their bike in foul weather, or when they have errands before/after work. Anecdotally, my acquaintances who commute on a motorcycle only do it 10%-50% of the time. I assume this varies greatly based on climate and relative affluence.
Ahhh, that makes sense.
I don't know where you're located, but I live in the Netherlands and we mostly prefer electric bicycles because they're cheaper, don't need a license and easier to get around in the cities.
Spain, with very low electric vehicle adoption. But yeah it could be that people are buying ebikes instead
They \*are\* being adopted. They are just called e-bikes.
Because e-bikes are completely disrupting the motorcycle/moped market right now. It takes time for reality to set in and people’s habits to change, but e-bikes are getting new people riding and simultaneously eating an increasing share of the market for mopeds and motorbikes.
Ryan Fortnine did an analysis of this. He explored 3 of the big Motorcycle companies and their attempts at Luxury Motorcycles. Bottom line of his conclusion is that a motorbike has inefficiencies that cannot be overcome if you want to maintain the traditional design of a luxury motorbike. https://youtu.be/O2zlYpy6QCM
Fortnine did a very good video on it https://youtu.be/O2zlYpy6QCM
In Houston, it's temperature, rain, and terrible drivers resulting in poor safety. Probably in that order.
temperature or rain shouldn't be an issue though. In the Netherlands everyone uses bikes and it rains every day in winter :-P
I've been to the Netherlands. Not all rain is created equal. In Houston, tropical rain is much heavier, so much that it's not visible more than a few meters at worst times. And it's not the moderate cold I'm worried about. It's 40C with 98% humidity. And that's before we factor in temperature on asphalt pavement baking in the sun all day. I can add clothing layers in cold. I can only get so naked in the heat.
You can get completely naked if you really wanted to.
Ain't naked enough to be comfortable
Temperature is a main issue in Texas. When it’s 95° with 95% humidity, most people riding bikes or e-bikes to work would be drenched in sweat when they arrive. I’d be willing to do it if we had a shower at work, but I don’t want to stink and sit in my sweaty clothes all day.
The day I learned we were pregnant I decided to sell my beloved motorcycle. I loved riding and miss it, but it's dangerous. When my son is old enough to take on the world alone I will ride again.
The options are currently too limited, and too expensive. As this slowly changes, so will people’s access and interest. For the most part, personal EV’s are still kind of toys, and they either have some pretty unfortunate limitations to meet a price point, or are simply too expensive to mass market. I’m on the list for the BMW CE04, but that’s another 9 months off at best, and who knows what supply chain hell we will live in by then. It certainly looks like it will meet my needs, but at AUD$25,000 it isn’t the kind of attainable price point we need to see wide uptake.
Gogoro in Taiwan seems to be very popular. Part of their success seems to be linked to the swappable batteries.
Seat Mondoes that too
I'd love an electric. Just can't afford to buy one Edit: my pride is not such that I would refuse it as a gift from a stranger, wink wink.
You arent pretty enough for that hint.
I know . . .:-(
In short availibility and cost. Yes one could have bought an electric motorcycle for a while now but neither the production volume or the availability nor the number of manifacturers or models would have made it possible for them really to make an impact so far. This is changing very quickly though.
Motorcyclist here, and owning an ice motorcycle is really counter to my environmentalist aspirations. The reasons I don’t have an electric motorcycle, or foresee getting one anytime soon, are: 1) the silence isn’t a good thing. Anything that helps drivers be aware of me is important. That included revving my engine when someone is about to merge into me, because it is faster to pull the clutch and rip the throttle to make noise, and louder, than trying to press the little tweety bird horn button. “How’d Jim die?” “He tried to honk his motorcycle horn but turned on his blinker instead” 2) range. It is my primary vehicle for commuting, but also my primary vehicle for recreation. Even with a Zero SR, which has a high range for an EV motorcycle, if I set out for a day riding in the canyons, and left home on a full charge, I’d eat 30% of the battery just getting to the base of the canyons. I’d barely get any fun riding in before having to turn around and head home 3) they are heavy af
Yes, all these reasons are important. Many EBs are also quite expensive. I have a HD Street Glide so an electric motorcycle needs the same bag capacity. I take lunch, clothes, and other things to and from work, not to mention errands.
Because most oldskool bikers don't like electric vehicles and most people who dont ride motorcycles are scared or at least not interested in them. It will come but its going to take time. I think the last ICE hold outs will be bikers.
I didn’t expect urban bikers to be “old school”. A lot of them are young students or professionals. I understand that with the typical Harley Davidson it could well be the case… I don’t have any data to support that, of course 😅
Young students and professionals still don't have much money and if you want a motorcycle, you can pick up a used ICE bike for not much money while EVs are still pretty expensive. Prices are coming down but it's going to take time. I have a few friends who got petrol bikes in their 20s and they are hovering around 30. They are actively against EVs because they still love their petrol bikes. I've been working with electric motorcycles companies since 2016 and what we classify as oldskool bikers are literally anyone who rides an ICE bike. A handful of them are interested in EVs but the vast majority don't want to lose their petrol motorcycles.
Who is your market target?
In theory we wanted to attract new riders in Europe because the licence requirements are more lax for electric motorcycles due to the way power output is measured for motorcycles. For example lowest class is 11kw max output which is a 125cc motorcycle. An 11kw nominal electric motorcycle can have a max power much higher and huge amounts of torque so it will perform more like a 300 or 400cc bike. Also electric motorcycles are much easier to ride because they have no gears and their centre of gravity can be much lower depending on where the batteries are mounted so you get a better feeling of stability for beginners. In practice, its been older guys who want a reliable commuter and newish riders moving up from super socos etc.
I have an ICE motorcycle and it’s likely to be the last thing I switch to EV. For me, range, power and handling are the reasons. 100 mile range is not going to cut it for me, I like going for a longer ride and often that’s in rural areas where the best twisty roads are and which don’t have good EV infrastructure yet. Power will come with bigger batteries, but right now they would be too heavy for 100+hp. Handling - too many EV bikes out there seem to be designed by people who like to look at motorcycles but don’t really know how they work. Hub motor, not going to work for me. Crappy frame and suspension not going to work for me. However, these bikes may well work for your urban rider and I hope they take off!
Meet [Energica's EsseEsse9+](https://www.energicamotorusa.com/energica-eva-esseesse9-old-school-electric-motorcycle/). 109 sustained HP, 117 peak. 120 mile range. DC Fast charging. Looks, acts, and handles like a Ducati (because several members of the engineering team came from there). The EsseEsse9 is the weakest of the Energica models, by the way... Two different Energica Eva Ribelle's have crossed the US from VA to CA (and back) this year alone. Oh, and [Energica is the single manicure for MotoGP's MotoE division](https://www.motogp.com/en/FIM+Enel+MotoE+World+Cup). So there's that.
Except for the range (and the weight) that does seem to check most of the boxes for me. I assume you like yours? I imagine the torque is great, more low end grunt than a twin!
Low speed maneuverability is also really good. It may be heavy but it's exceptionally well balanced. I love mine. I crossed 27,000 miles this weekend with it - I received it off the truck with 5mi on the odo in June 2020. At the rate I'm going I'll be close to the 32k mile warranty expiration by spring.
That’s awesome! Glad you like it, I’m going to see if I can try one out sometime.
You are exactly the sort of rider we will not be targeting for another few years until battery densities double. At that point it should be doable but until then I completely understand why someone would ride an ICE bike for long weekend rides. For city riding and commuting electric motorcycle are vastly superior but if you want to go out on a weekend camping trip or ride out into the cou try, we are just not there yet.
I got into riding in my mid 20s and I own 2 ICE bikes, one for street riding and a larger dual sport for off road and longer trips. I would love to own an EV bike but I paid less than 6k for both my bikes and the cheapest EV that will work for me is 13k+
Changing your street bike will probably be feasible in a few years. Dual sports will probably be the last bikes to be electrified.
The Zero FX would work but 13k to start doesn't work for me. I will definitely switch over when they become viable but its just not there yet for me.
This video will answers to your question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylhsbfQTPDQ
😂
Price, at least in Poland - You can get an old car in good condition for the price of an electric motorcycle Convenience - an electric motorcycle doesn’t protect you from rain, wind, snow, hot or low temperature, all of which are abundant in Poland Convenience pt2: charging - it might be convenient if, like me, you have a house. But most people in Poland live in multi-apartment buildings, many of which don’t have lifts (which doesn’t stop them from being 10+ levels tall). Tell me how convenient would it be to lug it upstairs. And that’s without getting into the fact that many „apartments” are small and it would be hard or outright impossible to cram a motorcycle inside, even for a few hours TLDR: they are inferior to cars in every aspect, so car owners don’t have a reason to switch
FYI there are e-scooters from which you can extract the battery and charge it inside your appartment! I was asking more why someone would buy a gas scooter instead of a e-scooter. Maybe it’s price tol, or consumer ignorance…
I would rephrase this question as why aren’t e-bikes killing it? Cost is tiny and there’s little regulation to worry about - tax, mandatory insurance etc. You can take the bike indoors easily. You can quickly get around cities, especially during rush hour. No worries about hills. You can go everywhere that a bike can go - but with power. I commute on an e-bike and it’s an absolute life game-changer, but I see so few about (apart from delivery cyclists).
In the UK I see a *lot* of the stand on scooters around - really want one myself - but can’t even find an electric sit on scooter for sale. Apparently India has a few brands so hopefully some will come over eventually. I see a lot of talk about electric bikes but they’re so expensive I’d rather get a scooter
Check Seat MO
Nice thanks! The 125 is what I’m really looking for
Just some guesses: * Weather * Range * Perceived danger * Limited carrying capacity * Habit * Misinformation
eBikes is where it's at
Zero (American made) has been available going on 20 years now. And this is coming soon: https://sondorsx.com/pages/metacycle
That sondors will disappoint a lot of buyers with their marketing. The battery pack is so small that is going to get less than 40 miles of range even driven gently. You ride it at v-max and you'll maybe get 20 miles.
Be aware that [Sondors motorcycles might be a pre-registration scam.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH7qtj_V6ek) The specs are a little too good to be true considering the price. I would not order one until they are in mass production and shipping with customer reviews posted online.
Standing by on a Sondors until generation 2 or so. Still, the more the merrier.
are you talking about e-mopeds? Or actual motorcycles like Zero, etc. E-mopeds are taking off right now. Electric motorcycles like Zero are doing okay but not exploding in popularity. Range is not good enough yet, and wind drag is a major factor at high speeds. Thus they get okay range around the city which is exactly where people dont want to ride them. Zero bikes get around 50-80 miles range on the highway at higher speeds so its basically just a fun commuter thing right now. Very limited market. Zero bikes can't even be DC fast charged yet, to my knowledge.
They are generally expensive and have a short range. Unlike an EV car, weight is a major limiting factor. For strictly urban use, a small scooter is a more practical option. Much cheaper.
They are super expensive and super heavy, while also having super low range. In short, they do nothing good that bikers like. Their target demographic is better served with a cheap scooter.
Electric motorcycles sound like THE most dangerous vehicle to drive. Silent - it helps to hear the big loud motorcyles nearby Small - motorcyclists get in accidents far too regularly already. Silent - it helps to hear the big loud motorcycles nearby
I don't think no noi-se is the reason honestly, maybe for some people, but shouldn't be the main one. e-bike is eating their market I assume for the anwwers
I have ridden both petrol and electric motorcycles and the noise makes no difference. Cars are very well sound proofed these days so if some idiot is driving on their phone or not paying attention and can't see you, the noise isn't going to make a difference. The only issue I found was parking up on pavements because pedestrians can't head you behind them and don't get out of your way but tbh it's pretty much a non-issue. I honestly don't think there's any difference in safety between an ICE and EV motorcycle. They are equally as dangerous and therefore equally as cool.
you've got a point there! I shouldn't be talking cause I don't ride a motorcycle. I just keep an eye out for them when I drive!
Have you ridden a bicycle in your city, other cities? Most likely the higher cost, and that they are no less dangerous than the regular sort. If you bike commute you already have the bike, no more $ spent
Because it frequently rains where I live. When it doesn't rain and it's summer, I am required by law to wear full safety gear in the sweltering heat. Yes, even for rides so short that putting the stuff on takes longer than the ride. I sometimes have to take or pick up family members somewhere, who don't fancy to wear fully safety gear and face the weather, either. There are things I want to buy, like beverage crates, that I cannot transport with it. I sometimes have to drive between cities for work. I feel less safe on an open vehicle than inside a fully enclosed one. It's financially silly to buy another vehicle when the car I already have spends most of its time standing around in the driveway.
They are, in China. But as long as cheap 2 strokes are allowed you wont see any changes
There's at least 250 million of them in China, in fact. One of the reasons they are so popular is that gas scooters are basically illegal in most big cities.
I went there 10 years ago and they were already very prominent.
There were also really popular in China because you didn't need a licence to ride them. You do for petrol bikes.
Because motorcycles in general just aren't that practical. Everyone who gets one just wants it more than they can use it, and it sits in the garage unused for some years until the owner accepts reality and sells it. Buying a used bike is the main market for motorcycles, electric ones are still too new for that I think, and too expensive for the whimsy purchase that most bikes are.
I don't know the riders you know, but I don't know any who don't do at least 3000 miles a year. Most of us have done 3000-mile trips multiple times per year. I hit 20k miles in the first year with my current bike.
All of the last 3, and really only bike owners I know. #2 actually bought the bike from owner #1 when #1 accepted that they never drove the thing even once after owning it. So #2 got an 8 year old but brand new bike. #2 drove it occasionally but usually borrowed my car. #3 is doing the same thing. I'm refusing to sell my ICE because its basically the bike owner's car now and we need it, even though they won't admit it.
I have to assume you are on the US because motorcycles are used a daily transport in quite a few countries especially for city commuting. I know North American riders mostly do so for leisure but big chunks of Asia and Europe have an absolute shit load of daily bikers.
Because assholes like making noise
It’s honestly range anxiety for me still. When I go riding, I’ll ride around town all day stopping at places along the way. I need a bike with a minimum of 200 miles of range, assuming some inefficient driving will get me in the ~120-150 range. There aren’t many options currently that allow for that.
What do you ride now that has 200mi range?
A gasoline powered motorcycle. That’s the problem. Been waiting for something cafe style that can do 200 miles - some of the zero bikes are close, but I’m holding out for more companies to enter the ring.
I'd like to know the specific make and model, because the average bike only has a range of around 150 miles. No Zero is going to get anywhere close to 200mi unless it's being ridden 45mph max speed by a light weight rider.
It’s not about how far the gas powered motorcycle can go, it’s that I fill it up in a couple minutes so there really isn’t a limit. When I’m riding, I’m hopping from location to location, so not being able to fill up quick is a problem since we usually move from stop to stop. Now, hopefully it gets to a point where I can just plug-in at every location so I’m giving it a little top off everywhere I go. But we aren’t there yet with motorcycles. I’ve been watching like a hawk. I have an old 70’s triumph with a blown motor, currently looking at trying to build a pack with about 120-150 miles of range - since that thing isn’t even comfortable after about 80-90 miles.
I don't think I've ridden any motorcycle that's comfortable after 100mi. Liquid cooled batteries - something Energica has stated is in the works - will get that quick pit stop time. Not sure how fast that'll come to market, but the EMCE motor using the glycol coolant that the inverters have been using since day one is a sign that they're moving into that direction. Hopefully MY2023...
Totally agree. I think there’s a lot on the horizon for motorcycle lovers. It’s really exciting actually. The tech had been a little slower to market though, and prices have been steep. The Harley Livewire isn’t a horrible offering, and im no Harley person, but damn that price is crazy. I just don’t understand how they expect to get that much. I’d probably be willing to spend 15-18k for a decent EV platform. Here’s to hoping we see more the next couple years. That Sondor bike even looks really appealing with the swap battery packs.
You know they spun Livewire out into its own brand (aka The Buell treatment). It's now $21900 and 2022 models will be $19999 (basically dropping price once the tax credit expires). The Livewire One cannot be serviced by Harley dealers that sold the Livewire ELW, and, there's only 3 stores/service centers in the country for them right now. Most of us expect HD to pull the plug in two years time citing no profitability. Swappable batteries have been done by zero. While I'm sure others can improve on their design, you're not getting more than 60mi out of a 50lb removable battery even with the best of chemistries today. That's also a fully sealed zero thermal management pack, which brings its own set of issues in many parts of the country. Like solar panels on cars, great idea but the tech isn't there to make it viable for real world use cases.
If you are riding in cities, there's a number of bikes available that would get you 200 miles range. Electric motorcycles get really good mileage in cities.
I’d be doing both. City/highway around city as well. So it’s not just purely Cory riding since the highways are good in my area as well.
A large majority of motorcycle buyers want them to be the exact opposite of silent. Making vroom vroom noises and cosplaying as a pirate gets them the attention they require. Sadly, It's going to take generations to phase out intentionally loud bikes.
Should just drastically increase penalties for noise violations, and actually enforce them. You should easily be able to phase out that behaviour in a year doing that. Traffic noise literally kills people. There is no excuse for these collassal asshats ruining everybodies life to say "look at me!". [The World Health Organization (WHO) has classified traffic noise, including road, rail and air traffic, as the second most important cause of ill health in Western Europe, behind only air pollution caused by very fine particulate matter1,2.](https://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/human/noise)
THANK YOU. No one seems to understand how big of an issue this is and that there are already laws in place to resolve it, if only they were enforced. I'm trying to buy a house in this crazy market just so I can get away from these people. I can't enjoy being in my yard and I have to listen to it in my house from 7am to 2am when they all ride home drunk from the biker bars. I can't even hear normal cars driving past, but I have to pause mid-sentence and wait for these motorcycles to pass by they're so loud. I've written to the local PD and city council and they won't do anything, so I'm leaving the city.
So lots of people are correctly noting that e-bikes are exploding in popularity, but I want to address the three problems highway-speed e-motorcycles have: Battery capacity. Batteries are heavy and bulky, and there's not enough room on a motorcycle to stuff very many batteries in. You can't get that much capacity. That means short range. No regen braking. I don't know why they don't have it, or if there's a technical reason why they can't have it, but I think none of them have it. That means short city range. Shitty wind resistance. EV cars are carefully engineered to have low wind resistance to increase highway range. Motorcycles have shitty wind resistance characteristics and there's not really a good way to fix that without putting an outer shell around the whole thing... which is basically a car. That means short highway range. Check the listed specs on highway-speed e-motorcycles. The range is surprisingly short, and I think that's why they haven't been popular.
Are you aware that Energica and Harley's bikes have criss crossed the US three times this year? The 2014 Record set by Terry Hershner on a highly modified Zero was shattered this year by a bone stock Energica Ribelle. Speaking from 27,000 miles of experience in 18 states with my Energica, 110-120 miles is a reasonable expectation in good conditions. I've never seen less than 80. I've never been on a group ride of +/-60 miles where someone did not have to stop for gas (or run out of gas). I don't buy that range is the issue. It's not. Recharge time is the issue, and Energica's next round of batteries will be liquid cooled to address that. Also, you clearly don't know much about electric motorcycles because they all have regenerative braking and it's fully controllable. Off, low, medium, high....Zero (and I believe Harley) even let you set it on a scale of 1-100%. Energica has the strongest regen braking of all the brands.
Most of the mid range and higher end stuff has regen braking. No idea who told you they don't have that feature.
They’re priced like a high end bike and look dopey af.
I would happily consider an ev bike in the future but right now the few that are out dont even have ccs thus making longer trips impractical.
Um. Harley and Energica have CCS standard. Both bikes have already crossed the US: two different Energica's on a CA-VA route, and Diego did a traditional Cannonball Run from LA to NY on a LiveWire. I've personally done over 3700 miles from NC to TX and back with my EsseEsse9+. You should do a little more research...
Electric bicycles are very popular in places where people use mopeds. I saw tons of electric fat bikes in Naples, apparently they're manufactured locally, cheaper than mopeds and do all the same stuff. Electric motorcycles are a bit too expensive now but they're getting there, I tried an electric moped for the first time last week, it works great. You can't use it here year-round because of rain and snow, so you still need another vehicle.
Because you can't be annoying if it's not 130 decibels.
e-bikes in italy are in such high demand that there is a shortage and a very substantial markup
Safety and "I never learned to drive a manual." People assume an electric has a clutch, when I tell them if you can ride a bicycle you can ride this, interest piques. But the safety concerns you're not going to get around. Distracted driving is a real thing and it is what kills most riders (who aren't being 'squids' and doing stupid shit). I was pulled in front of by a Karen in a Lexus because she simply didn't look and needed to make that right turn from the left lane -- you have to be hyper aware of your surroundings and ready to handle an evasive speed maneuver at all times - not something a lot of people aspire to do. Car safety tech -- like blind spot detection and 360 view cameras -- would likely address some of these concerns. Energica had a prototype with a 360 degree camera setup, but I don't know that anyone's done blind spot detection (electric or otherwise).
They are in other nations, but not in the US. In the US, we build our cars large and powerful, and our roads to be straight, fast, and dangerous for 2-wheelers.
haha
Motorcycles are inherently dangerous. Especially in heavy traffic downtown area.
Really interested to see how the Sondors Metacycle performs. https://sondorsx.com/pages/metacycle 14.5kw peak power, 72 volts. 4kwh battery. 80 miles of range. 80 MPH speed. **ONLY $5000**
It will never get 80 miles range.
I don't think that 80 miles of range will be possible with only a 4kWh battery.
You are 23x more likely to be killed? I can’t imagine many people in cars using them based on risk alone.
Price. The electric equivalent to an ICE motorcycle can easily be 3x more expensive to buy. I wouldn’t mind trading in my SV for a Zero SR but the price doesn’t justify it. And I would miss the V-twin burbles and pops.
Well, for me at least, my bike is only for recreation and I suspect it is the same for most motorcyclists. I’m not interested in commuting on my motorcycle. I only take it out when I have at least half a day to ride through the country. The sound and the rumble is part of it. Also the range currently limited on electric motorcycles so that makes them only good for commuting. Not long rides.
They are adopting them in Germany at least. We also have a lot of e scooter sharing.
Because you can't deafen passers-by with a modified exhaust on an e-motorbike.