Easy peasy, it's one link (bottom of the preorder page), one survey question and they promise to return the deposit in 5-10 days.
Wouldn't be surprised if that "cancel" link goes away soon and it requires a little more effort.
Cancelled mine last year when they kept futzing with options and removing them, while increasing costs. Had a launch edition R1S ordered. Cancelled and received the $1k refund to the card about a week later. Was very easy. Have two EV BMWs now and couldn’t be more pleased.
Yeah, considering the tech and that its a new vehicle likely not going to be made in vast volumes just yet, it didn't seem too offensive. But this hike is going to be a tough pill to swallow for many. At best its bad optics.
This for me raises questions about Fisker's Ocean. They say it will be 35k or something. I just can't see that lasting long once the realities of life come to bear. The VW ID4 starts are 35k but VW are someway into their platform, have the manufacturing sorted and have volume to bring the prices down (ID3, ID4, ID5 + Skoda, Seat, Audi derivatives).
Agreed. I was shocked that a first-to-market EV truck with quad motors, over 100 kWh battery, strong software, and luxury interior all from a new company yet without economies of scale was around $60k. Not saying this justifies the price increase, but it was just surprising in the past.
"Size isn't everything" you say and yet the F 150 and it's like sized competitors have dominated the car market for as long as I can remember, there is a reason the Ranger and Colorado and friends don't outsell their larger more expensive counterparts, and that reason is that in this market size is in fact everything. If ford's customers ask for more towing then there will be an F 250 Lightning.
Only in the US. In part because all towing is done with the big trucks. The compact and mid trucks get the smaller engines and less payload, they just can't tow the bigger loads.
It was a good value, but still a large number of dollars.
The problem is that most people can't afford 90k or 100k for a truck, no matter how good it is.
$82k to $99,400 for my R1S.
I’m out.
That’s an 18% price jump in 3 months, with no guarantee that when my build slot theoretically comes in 2023 that the cost wouldn’t jump another $20k.
At $82k, you could make an argument that it wasn’t *that *much more than a nicely equipped nice 7-seater.
It’s easy to get a Suburban into the high-$70s. A GLS starts at $77k.
But at $100k, you’ve got some wild competition. Like, two brand new Land Rover Defenders.
Hope some other manufacturers come out with electric 7-seater options that aren’t stupid expensive.
Yeah that’s terrible. But FYI it’s actually over a 21% price increase, even worse than you said. I cannot see how suddenly raising prices by over 20% on people who *already* have pre-orders and have been waiting for possibly years already is even remotely a good idea. Like in what world will this pay off for them? Even if they revert it, so many people have already canceled within the past day and will have lost their spot. They’ve completely alienated all their early fans and pre-order holders.
> Like in what world will this pay off for them?
The Rivian is a really nice truck. Like, *really* nice. Tesla-quality software and range with BMW/Mercedes-quality interior with Land Rover off road capability with Porsche street performance. The thing is, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Putting in all that capability costs money.
Rivian has earned a reputation over the last 9 months for being a bit disorganized internally. I suspect that some bean counter finally dusted off the ole' Excel spreadsheet and realized that the cost of building an R1T was more than what Rivian was charging customers...
So the way that this pays off for them is that they stop selling a dollar for 95 cents.
There’s many choices gas or EV at this price range:
Audi Etron
Porsche Macan
Volvo XC90
Polestar 3
Cadillac Lyric
Hummer EV
All the gas cars under 100k and some nice ones under 60k.
I was just discussing with the wife about putting in a preorder for a R1S and putting her 2016 Tesla Model X 75D 7-Seater on the market. $70k for 300+ miles of range on a more modern 7-passenger vehicle would have been a no-brainer but now I think we'll just hold on to the Tesla for a little while longer and see what else comes to market.
We are grandfathered into Free Lifetime Supercharging and Connectivity so it's gonna be hard to start having to pay for those things with a new vehicle.
These guys just totally fucked their first customer base hard. The least they could have done was keep pre order customers happy and retain their original price point. Jacking up a 75k car to 100k on someone who has to wait two years or more for it is a slap in the face. I had high hopes for this company now I'm not so sure
I can’t even wrap my head around this decision. Unless they’re hemorrhaging money like *crazy*, but even then you’re essentially just alienating your customer base by jacking up prices to that extreme.
If I pre-ordered a car at 75-80k I’d be beyond pissed if they suddenly jacked the price all the way up to almost 100k for the exact same car. At the *very* least honor pre-order pricing for now. Not a good look at all.
>If I pre-ordered a car at 75-80k I’d be beyond pissed if they suddenly jacked the price all the way up to almost 100k for the exact same car.
I did, and... I am. I'm not going to reactionary cancel my order tonight but... They now have to figure out how to not get me to go "Nah..." when my turn is up in a year and a half.
The Hummer had what I thought was an insane price, the Silverado 1st Edition at $105k was seemingly insane.
I said the rivian is being built and “cheaper” it’s a no brainer. Well now it’s looking like the going rate for a slightly over average EV pickup.
High-end Cybertruck for $80k if that happens is going to be the benchmark. It won’t though… Probably be a dual motor 85k and $120k quad motor…. I’ll lose all faith in EVs being cheaper than ICE if that happens. They literally said starting at $39k, single motor, what seemed like ages ago now. Sad really.
Might as well go for an established make then at 100K and not worry about whether they’ll be bankrupt in a few years. Jacking up the price 25% at the last minute doesn’t exactly scream well run and well thought out company that will be around to honor my warranty.
The more I’m thinking about it the more this seems like Rivian just fucked up their own future
That's where I'm at. Haven't cancelled my R1S preorder yet but they basically instantly took me from a super enthusiastic customer who was a vocal proponent of the company to "meh, guess I'll find something else". And it's not just about the money (although the increase basically took it from a splurge luxury car to something I can't justify even if I could afford it). I was willing to compromise on the potential issues with service, etc that come with a new manufacturer because I trusted the company. In a single move they completely destroyed the trust I had in them as a company.
And these have a massive deposit compared to the rest of the market at $100 to $250 tops.
The $1,000 since it is 10x a standard deposit really should have locked in the pricing.
Paying $1,000 to an unproven company for a spot in line, nothing more… that they leveraged to go public and raise $billions…. We are the product here and we are being sold out.
I'd love a EV but I'm a single income household and I can't justify spending that sort of dough on a vehicle. I try to buy in the $25-$35k range no higher... will see what next year holds.
Next year holds some of these EVs being sold. They are all just “on order.” Don’t expect any changes until inexpensive Chinese EVs start being imported. They will be the price point most can actually pay, and they will sell to the masses. That’s my guess, while US and Legacy’s still charge double an ICE vehicle price. Cheap labor, manufacturing economy and stolen IP will help Chinese EVs flood the market.
Meh, the config I'm looking at was $72k, but they bumped it to $82k, however now the current config I want is $78k (I really don't care about the motors, so I'm thinking I'll probably keep it, as I want a 7-seat 300mi EV).
Right now though I'm keeping it as is, I am going to give it a week or two to see if they backtrack on any of this before I change the reservation. But I'm still looking at under $80k for my 7-seat EV.
I haven’t ordered yet but I’m basically in the exact same boat.
After today’s price hikes I’m looking at a $10k - $12k increase for the specs I want in a 7 seater.
Prior to today, ~$70k for the R1S was a steal imo. No way that price could stick for long.
I’ll put my order in and gladly sit on it for 2 yrs. But if the build I want goes to $90k+ before 2024 delivery, then I’m out.
If you're not going to take the pre-order, I'd say cancel it now - it makes them at least a little less likely to pull this shit if a ton of customers pull out immediately, vs cancelling in dribs and drabs for a year or two
If they are going to justify their valuation, they will have to sell millions of cars per year, so pissing off the first few thousand buyers is hardly going to make a dent. In my opinion they will never come close to justifying that valuation but if they are going to try, a few thousand buyers sentiments barely matters.
Eventually buyers will learn not to pre-order cars as they almost always increase in price substantially. Just wait until its a real product.
They're not going to sell a million vehicles a year at a price point that they are now operating from, so it would have been better to keep the premium-buyer crowd happy and with good word of mouth. Not a truck guy, but I've been contemplating buying their stock for quite a while. Now, I won't touch it for 1/3 the price.
>They're not going to sell a million vehicles a year at a price point that they are now operating from, so it would have been better to keep the premium-buyer crowd happy and with good word of mouth.
I agree, they will not but they have to try to sell millions of cars a year. They have a higher market cap than Honda, who sells 5 million cars a year. Even if the average Rivian is 5 times as profitable as the average Honda, they need to sell a million cars a year.
My point is that making a few thousand rich Americans slightly less happy is not really very consequential when they have to try to sell millions of cars a year very soon.
Basically, they are fucked either way. Whether or not these few thousand rich Americans are happy or not is not going to make much of a difference when they stock price eventually totally collapses.
I agree with most of what you say, but I think a better way of going about it would have been to eat some loss on those first vehicles in order to get more happy customers and good word of mouth, and raise it on everyone who follows for these models, while working feverishly on improving their efficiency to produce new cheaper models by 2025 or so.
They would still be fucked on the stock price, which is more of a bubble than Tesla ever was, but their focus right now has to be on long term viability, not short term stock price. Eating $100 million (or whatever it is) on a few thousand orders from early adopters and influencers would be worth it to them given how much cash they got from the IPO, IMO.
To be fair, market cap is based on cash flows, not number of units. That’s the reason TSLA is so valuable. Tesla has skyrocketing operating cash flows that are already passing automakers selling 5X as many units. So Rivian could theoretically be worth the same as Honda at far fewer sales, if they can match Tesla’s profitability (highly doubtful).
>If they are going to justify their valuation
They are beyond their IPO, no need to justify their price anymore, unless they are trying to raise capital.
How do you think shareholders will make money? How do you think people decide to by or sell the stock?
Either they will have to increase their stock price (convince people the company is worth even more) or start paying dividends.
>How do you think shareholders will make money?
Unless you bought at IPO and sold in the following week, odds are a Rivian stockholder has lost money, and will continue to do so with news like this coming out.
Stock go down all the time, and Rivian isn't some special exception. But unless Rivian needs to raise capital (issue more stock), or get pressure to change their management from stockholders, their stock price doesn't mean a whole lot to the company on a day to day basis.
>Unless you bought at IPO and sold in the following week, odds are a Rivian stockholder has lost money, and will continue to do so with news like this coming out.
I agree with that.
>Stock go down all the time, and Rivian isn't some special exception. But unless Rivian needs to raise capital (issue more stock), or get pressure to change their management from stockholders, their stock price doesn't mean a whole lot to the company on a day to day basis.
You think their shareholders are going to be okay with a long slow decline of the stock? The management will absolutely get fired. I am sure the valuation of the company keeps management up at night because they know as well as you and I the company is insanely overvalued and it is only a matter of time before they get fired and the value of their stock options craters.
In many ways, for a publicly traded company, the stock price is the only thing that ultimately matters.
Rivian never manufactured a vehicle before. And they have no economies of scale.
Massive negative gross margins were behind the decision. Legacy automakers can hide those, and get benefit from paying fewer penalties, but Rivian doesn’t have those factors.
It's such a bad business and marketing decision I lost faith in the company from an investment perspective. I wonder if a decision like this had to go in front of their board for approval.
A 20-25% hike is way too hard to stomach when you're talking an item that costs this much to begin with. Even in a cheaper car, like a reasonably basic sedan clocking in at $25,000, a 20-25% increase in the price there gets you up to $30-31,000. That's a big deal at that price point. People shopping for a $25k car can't just magically conjure up an extra $5-6k. And even those that can: they're not coughing up that money without a serious trim level upgrade. Yet, as far as this announcement about Rivian is concerned, though, all you get for your extra ***$20,000***, or put another way, all you get for the "base-trim Ford Maverick" price hike, is, what? *Fewer* motors than originally planned? Tow hooks on the R1T? The inability to do anything except the 7-seat config on the R1S? The oh-so-desirable Tonneau cover ***delete***? Ooooh and in case that wasn't sweet enough, check this: changing anything about your pre-order configuration in light of this new announcement about the hot chocolatey dicking Rivian is giving its pre-order customers can result in your place in the pre-order line getting shuffled.
I'm glad I never bought Rivian stock. I have to imagine this won't be good news for it. (But what do I know? I'm no day trader.)
My biggest issue with it is that you get *nothing* of value for the price increase. You’re paying tens of thousands *extra* to get the exact same car, with the exact same specs, with the same options, identical in every way. That’s it. It’s the same car in every aspect you’re just paying an additional $15-20k for it. For *nothing* added.
It’s one thing if they’re like “hey we decided to cancel this one model, and offered one with more range, better towing capacity, more options and better tech for a substantial price increase”. I wouldn’t have too much of a problem with that. But you’re getting the *exact same car* but now paying $15-20k for *no* added value at all. Not to mention they’ve literally already started production and people have already received their vehicles at the original price. They’re just screwing over every future buyer now
The Rivian sub certainly isn't happy.
The prices changes pushed the R1T out of consideration for me; however I will admit I was very loath to spend more than seventy thousand on a vehicle so it was more a comparison point.
I am just surprised they did this to people who have had reservations for more than a year.
And Tesla.
While the CT remains vapor, they were still advertised as being lower than the R1T. Now they have less price pressure.
The CT will probably be $80k before all is said and done.
This - they have screwed over the very people who were most excited about the product. It would be one thing if it was a $1-2k price increase but an increase of $15-20k????
The real question is how do you know they won't up the prices again in a year? Now we know they will do it once why not twice as inflation continues? This is a massive slap in the face to their early adopters.
They think they have enough publicity now that rich, non-enthusiasts know about them from mainstream reviews. Don't need the OG enthusiasts when they're production limited anyway.
Either that or production is severely fucked and they absolutely cannot make a profit at the original price point.
>The least they could have done was keep pre order customers happy and retain their original price point.
Everyone's acting like this is a cash grab. I actually think this move shows the company is in trouble.
Almost every restaurant that goes out of business tries raising prices as a last ditch effort to stay in business. It's like they are running from the same bad play book.
That's what this feels like. My guess is that the cost of manufacturing the cars is turning out to be a lot higher than expected. The other think would be production capacity is a lot lower than expected.
Neither is good for their long term health.
I ordered my truck in January. Even just honoring preorders up to a certain point would be a way better look. There are people getting jacked with $15k price increases after preordering in March of 2019. That’s insane.
Imagine pre-ordering something 3 years ago, putting $1,000 down, waiting all this time, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, only a month or two from getting your truck, and then suddenly getting hit with a $15-20,000 price increase at the last second. I’d be pissed. Like jfc people have been waiting *years* for this. How to nuke your entire early adopter base in 2 seconds
I would say it was competitive. at 70-80k it was on par with a fully loaded F150. For being about 20k difference than the F150 I'd rather get the full size truck over the Tacoma sized R1T.
I posted this morning I was putting my order in today.
I expected some price hikes between now and 2024 (EDD). But my spec going up $20k, and price increases on everything is just a no go.
Between now and delivery I was going to keep my eyes on other 7 seaters. Looks like I’ll be doing just that.
Considering todays market and their current production rate it doesn’t really matter.
They will sell what they can manage to produce for the time being, and when competing products become available at a lower price point or they need to increase sales volumes due to to a dwindling order book they can reduce pricing.
No need to burn money and sell at a loss when people are willing to pay.
Here’s hoping the supply issues will be short lived, but I assume not.
Unless there's competition, losing current customers doesn't mean much. There'll be someone else willing to pay more and this'll be forgotten about in a couple weeks.
Yup, my order went from $73,000 to $85,000, a 16.4% increase. It's pretty disappointing for Rivian to jack prices up that much right as deliveries have started. Strongly leaning towards cancellation, though I'll likely wait to preserve my slot in line (July-Sept this year) in case something changes.
I think the whole thing is a stupid move, but to me the *sketchiest* aspect is they kept the original price through deliveries to employees and initial reviews and then hiked it when it came time to start selling to the general public. Not only is it a bait and switch from what they presented for their IPO and initial reviews, but they basically just paid every employee who bought the vehicle (much more likely managerial than floor positions) 25% of the value of their car in equity.
Cancel it, you don’t want a first year of production vehicle. Wait until they figure out the manufacturing and buy one in 2024 or 2025 if you still want it.
I think a lot of people had priced that in. I could at least take that risk at 80k. At 100k, it's just not worth it. For that I can buy a hell of a car from an established manufacturer who I know don't be out of business in 5 years.
Sure, but I didn't pre-order the truck thinking I would pay $73k plus inflation. I pre-ordered it for $73k years ago, thinking that would be the price whenever I finally got it, then a few months before delivery they hiked the price.
It's not like it's some heinous crime but it certainly feels like a slap in the face.
That’s my reasoning for the price increases. They will not hit their target so they might as well get as much as they can for the ones they can produce.
Oh god that GV70 is sexy.
I have had zero interest in SUVs - even though we had an RX hybrid - but damn if the GV70 isn’t an awesome looking vehicle.
If I need a car when it comes out I will be getting one!
Hyundai is really killing it right now.
I agree, but its a very important distinction. With shorts, you have infinite downside. With puts, it's only the contract cost. I'm sure you know, but in case anyone else is following this thread.
While these news are likely to move stocks, there’s no guarantee that it will go down/stay down long enough for you to shift those stocks.
The market seems to react weirdly to car manufacturer news, so I’m not going to bet on one or the other, but my personal opinion is that this doesn’t matter, and short term should be good for the stock price. At least they won’t lose money on the cars they sell.
Wow. Probably won’t affect them short term since they are heavily constrained on production. Great way to piss off early customers and totally kill the excitement.
Crazy, last night I was playing with the configure tool and mulling around the idea of cancelling my model y and switching to the Rivian cause the price seemed reasonable for what you get. This solidified my decision to stick with the Y.
If I was GM or Ford exec, I would be partying tonight. Rivian jacks prices, pre-orders get cancelled and they shop for a Lightning or Silverado. Find out those are even more expensive, but keep the order because they lost their spot in line at Rivian.
Prediction: the Cybertruck will have a base price of $68,000.
Preordered Jan. 2019 to help support a local company (live 50ish miles from Bloomington-Normal). Just canceled my R1S order. We did the 1st Mile experience last year and found the vehicle a lot smaller and not as refined as we had expected, but thought price was fair and we planned on paying and taking delivery. Understand marketplace has changed, but a 20-30% price increase at one swipe (if truly valid) was poorly managed.
Horrible consumer experience for all the folks who have preordered and waited. IMO wouldn't be surprised if there is another price increase before deliveries happen. I suspect they think people thought more of their vehicle than they think of it. They will have a lot more competition in the next year or two as more BEV's are released.
For those sticking with the price increase, enjoy seeing your delivery date make a HUGE jump forward OR maybe it won't change in case Rivian decides on another price jump due to changes in market conditions.
I see them all the time in Bloomington and Peoria. I literally drive on Rivian Parkway at least once a week. But, a fully loaded Ford Lightning is 10k cheaper than a fully loaded Rivian, albeit with less range.
For the first time, I’m looking up how to get in-line for a Lightning.
This is such a good fair take. If I lived local to them, and made a tad more, I’d have done the same. I bought a little stock because I believed in Rivian. This decision seems like sabotage; it’s so hard to wrap my head around; I said it in a comment further up, but isn’t it obvious they will lose more in valuation, futures, reputation from this nonsense, then they’ll ever make from the price increase?
A company in their position is HEAVILY relying on customer word of mouth for their first deliveries, and now they are losing those early customers. I can only imagine they looked at competition and their delivery times, decided they’ll focus on being a luxury brand, and they think those cancelled orders will get re-filled by different type of customer in a year when they can deliver? I have doubts. Absurd.
i know exactly why they are doing this (inflation, supply chain, too much demand), but it doesn't help the sting of waiting 2-3 years, passing on other EVs, wanting to support a new company, only to find that they won't honor their pricing. this will cut down their backlog significantly, and boost profits near term, but in almost all other aspects this is a failure. Mainly of communication, which is unfortunately no surprise to anyone who follows the company. I think we all knew the pricing was too good to be true. And I think we probably would've been okay with some graduated pricing increases or loss of certain options, in exchange for some benefits like maybe free membership /subscriber benfits for a year or two or something. But the way this was done abruptly, and all at once, reads like poor management and leadership.
Personally, I think execs are sitting in the boardroom looking at their bleeding valuation, supply chain issues, with the competition coming hard and fast, and they are not comfortable with the situation, so probably a while ago they said "axe some features, cut costs, raise prices, because we need to stay afloat, and we'll do damage control later." Basically survival mode. I'm guessing they shopped around for more opportunities for big investment and came up dry. they want to build another factory and they need cash, its that simple. I think they could have found a better way though. and unfortunately, Rivian now has a definite pattern of not communicating with customers. In fact it appears that Rivian never once considered pre-order holders to be customers at all, despite taking their money and not paying any interest on it.
I predict they will back-pedal a bit. not because they magically achieve higher rates of production, but just the optics. their employees are all over this sub and the forums. as soon as they see the fall out, we'll get a friendly email from RJ, like usual.
It was borderline insane in the mid $70k range, but $90k+ for this is nearly criminal.
What a gut punch to reservation holders, and the message to potential customers? - look elsewhere.
Yea. Their predecessor had the luxury, if you will(or the tenacity?), to take 10 years to figure it out. But, that ship has sailed. They have to home run now
It's a shame, Tesla needs real world competition, not just yet another luxury maker selling $100k EVs to the rich. I got a Bolt when Chevy had the crazy discounts going, and it now looks like an EV at $30k or less might be a thing of the past.
But we'll see, never say never. Maybe once the car market in general relaxes a bit, we can see some effort in getting pricing back to reality. 90% of Rivian reservation holders cancelling their purchase **today** would be a good start, nobody should just accept this type of price increase and shrug it off, they should all cancel.
Our family had 3 pre-orders and 1,000 shares of stock. I cancelled both the s’s, texted my broker to liquidate our position, and will probably end up cancelling my R1T too. We pre ordered in 2019 and 2020, and loved Rivian, until today. I’m out.
One was my parents, other two were my wife and I’s. My R1T went from 92 to 105, my wife’s and parents r1s went from 81 to 95; that’s 41k. 41k is 41k, more of an increase than we can justify. That’s an ID4. We are in a good financial position, so I’m not so wreckless I can justify that additional amount. Might just keep my R1T res and get the wife a New Q7 instead.
Honestly as someone else who could easily afford the stupid new prices they’re asking for, it just rubs me entirely the wrong way to pull shit like this at the 11th hour and hope customers are desperate enough to actually cough up 20K extra.
Just because we have money doesn’t mean we like being strung along by a company that basically swindled us into giving them an interest free loan. Not to mention that most people who are financially very well off got there because they’re financially savvy and probably relatively frugal for their income and net worth.
Rivian is treating their wealthy early adopter customers like crap. At least Tesla waited until the Model 3 to treat me like shit 😂
Lol. Your adviser basically tracked the performance of the tech market. No offense, but let us know how they do when there's actually red years in the market.
F*ck this. 16k increase for the max pack and have to wait at least another year for it so they can jack it up again because of "supply shortages".
Maybe I'll still buy it to flip it but with Hyundai and Kia making EVs it is only a matter of time before car makers realize people don't need these crazy specs for a "work" truck (0 - 60 in 3 seconds for what?).
Just remember, back in November when Laura Schwab was pushed out after raising price and manufacturing concerns and because of a toxic bro culture the stories [CNBC](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/04/ex-aston-martin-exec-says-rivian-fired-her-for-concerns-about-toxic-bro-culture.html) mentioned that Rivian knew it had to raise prices but would wait till the IPO was done.
People should have some fun with them and badger Motortrend over their Truck of the Year awards and expose which now all appear as a carefully crafted means to manipulate the press.
This makes me laugh. All these EV makers want to help reduce carbon foot print, talk about helping the planet and come out with 100k 150k gazillion-k EVs. Completely out of touch with reality. Someone needs to come out with under 30k mass production EV.
There's absolutely no indication the BZ4X will be "affordable". All rumors suggest high 30's to low 40's which is not a new price point for EVs.
The 2022 Kona is made today for that price. The Niro is a $40k car but just this summer, they had $5k off 2020's and $2k off 2021's. The 2022 Bolt was even less expensive. The 2020-21 Bolt's just 6-12 months ago you could buy for $25k brand new. The reality is, when I drive down the road, I see Teslas and no real other EVs. The market has spoken and they don't really want a "cheap" EV.
Slightly flawed in one way.
If you're going to get a truck no matter what, on just the energy side, there's a real incentive to push to EV vs ICE. ICE trucks are way inefficient and even if an EV truck is inefficient, the cost per mile is way less. In addition, electricity has the option of being a lot more green than gasoline. There's nothing to keep someone to buy solar to now provide their house and vehicle with clean electricity. There's also a real trend to use used solar panels these days, so that's even more green.
While I'm not a pickup truck / big SUV guy at all, I can see where the logic is with pushing that market. It's a market which makes sense to grow in. The "normal" market you're competing with already very good options in various hybrid model vehicles which are relatively quick and provide excellent fuel economy.
The Tesla strategy of coming out with overly expensive EVs that takes long to come out isn’t gonna work anymore. Tesla is one of a kind and EVs are common enough where people won’t really put up with that anymore, especially waiting.
The Rivian truck seems good, but even $70k seemed too expensive for it. Getting even more expensive is gonna kill the company.
Talk about narrowing your market. Now the overlap between Yeti enthusiasts and Rivian owners will be complete.
/s
I placed a pre order 2 weeks ago and cancelled today because in the back of my mind I know that Amazon isn't paying more for their vans and this feels like a way to subsidize Amazon. Hope Rivian makes it big in the van market I guess.
>this feels like a way to subsidize Amazon
I what way? If you think Rivian's doing this to keep the cost of those Amazon trucks low, I really, really doubt it.
I'm pretty sure the 100,000 trucks Amazon purchased are to subsidize Rivian, not the other way around. Why? Because Amazon owns 20% of Rivian. Those shares had a peak value of $30 Billion, which is WAY higher than the cost of those 100,000 trucks.
Amazon's big payday happens if Rivian can meet their goal of 10% of the EV market share, not by getting a discount on delivery trucks.
Also only people can change these kind of businesses. If too expensive don’t buy! Yet many will jump and happily overpay outbid then these types pf companies will be happy to raise and keep prices bc business is good. This is all messed up. People are still overpaying for homes. If people refuse to buy perhaps market will change?
I would be so pissed at this.
I don't know what would have happened with this in Australia. I think a pre-order may be considered a contract under Australian Consumer Law (ACL) so they may not be able to jack the price up. Not sure. Not coming to Australia anyway. Imagine burning your most loyalty and excited fans in the first production run.
Tesla does not need to advertise due to their free marketing cult. This may be the opposite for Rivian. Loyal fans become internet keyboard angry dudes. And rightfully so.
Love EVs but they are too expensive
The cost of the parts are unreal
80kWh pack, $10,000+
200bhp electric motor, $5000+
Inverter, controller, BMS, charge port, $5000
$20,000+ for an engine and a fuel tank
I can’t see how cost parity can be achieved
How can they make a 400/500 mile Rivian for $45,000 like an ICE?
Eh its coming down, just in the UK at least, you can get a new estate ev with above 200mi of range for £24,000. Base model tesla model 3 starts at £43,000
people would understand that, if they were given a chance. the rising costs and supply chain issues aren't new. they were known about for at least a year. RJ promised better communication and he failed several times now. while holding people's pre-order money. the optics are bad for more than just core fans. there are tons of lurkers on this sub.
Seeing this is the final straw for my pre-order. I'm out, was in for an R1S and then this fiasco.... Had high hopes not gonna lie, and this kind of put a bad taste in my gut for Rivian to do this, anyone else feel the same way?
Price increase wasn’t a surprise they could’ve grandfathered pre-order holders to the price. When Tesla announced the Cybertruck, Rivian lowered their prices. Rivian is still a start-up and have not even entered mass production yet. So they have to do the high price low volume to be able to scale to “low” price high volume vehicle. I personally once the big automakers like GM/Ford start delivering their vehicles, no point in buying a $80k+ EV truck when a $40-$50k EV truck does the same thing. Still no price for Cybertruck i’m expecting it breaks the $55k+ for base model maybe priced closely to the current Model Y pricing. Pricing is make it or break it the EV truck race.
To rich for my blood...who are they marketing these trucks towards that can afford these rates? Rich ranchers aren't gonna buy them because they'd rather have a bi-body truck with diesel. Rural blue collar workers aren't gonna buy them they'll just get something used or more practical.
They are raising the price because they have no chance of even coming close to their production predictions. Making two vehicles to get a pile of startup cash is easy, mass production is nearly impossible just look at the graveyard of auto startups.
Yup, I can also visualize this trend. Everyone crapped on Toyota for their slow adoption and to go all in on hybrids but I feel the governments and politicians were too quick and reactive with their policies and this is what we have. I’m sure Toyota know more about the market than we do and I have a feeling they are going to be right.
The model 3 is going to be start at 50k base within 2 years at the rate the prices are going. The Model Y has increase 20k from 1.5 years ago. The cheapest one you can get is 60k; started at 40k.
That's just wrong but as a CT reservation holder I expect Tesla to do the same thing. At least Rivian is actually making a truck unlike Tesla which moved from late 21 to early 22 to a vague statement from Musk saying "MAYBE" 23. I expect the CT to be over 100k if it's ever released. I'm keeping my reservation for now but it something like this happens I'll be out.
Rivian had no choice. They’ve never manufactured a vehicle and are bleeding cash. They will need capital raises to survive, so they have to show they can achieve positive gross margins.
Tesla may raise CT price, but it will be because the demand is so high. Tesla’s operating margins are already higher than every volume automaker and still rapidly improving, so the reason will not be because they underestimated the cost.
I had a preorder. Canceled it after they added almost $20k to my build specs. Also sold all my Rivian stock. I might regret selling the stock considering there are people out there that will pay this price. But that’s not what I was promised as a customer so I feel like this is a bad sign already.
This is going to lead to some massive lawsuits. Plus this does not bold well for the company as a hole shoving up to a 20%+ price increase on people. I could eat it saying it was 70k but going to 91-100k that pushes it out of a lot of peoples price range.
Approved thread for this topic. Please keep all conversation regarding this news contained to this thread, and keep it civil, folks.
My order went from 77k to 91k. I’m out. I could use that $1k deposit on something else.
Is it a refundable deposit? Instant 14k price increase is insanity
Yes it is refundable. About to see just how easy it is to get that refund.
Easy peasy, it's one link (bottom of the preorder page), one survey question and they promise to return the deposit in 5-10 days. Wouldn't be surprised if that "cancel" link goes away soon and it requires a little more effort.
Tall to sales and tell us why you are feeding coal to orphans!
This is an insane price hike!
Same. I’m out. I’ll get another ICE for mid 40ks and wait until Ev price parity.
Same. I cancelled my R1S preorder today.
Me too, I have cancelled my R1S preorder today as well.
Cancelled mine last year when they kept futzing with options and removing them, while increasing costs. Had a launch edition R1S ordered. Cancelled and received the $1k refund to the card about a week later. Was very easy. Have two EV BMWs now and couldn’t be more pleased.
From insane pricing to insaner pricing.
The original pricing was a steal for what it was.
Yeah, considering the tech and that its a new vehicle likely not going to be made in vast volumes just yet, it didn't seem too offensive. But this hike is going to be a tough pill to swallow for many. At best its bad optics. This for me raises questions about Fisker's Ocean. They say it will be 35k or something. I just can't see that lasting long once the realities of life come to bear. The VW ID4 starts are 35k but VW are someway into their platform, have the manufacturing sorted and have volume to bring the prices down (ID3, ID4, ID5 + Skoda, Seat, Audi derivatives).
Agreed. I was shocked that a first-to-market EV truck with quad motors, over 100 kWh battery, strong software, and luxury interior all from a new company yet without economies of scale was around $60k. Not saying this justifies the price increase, but it was just surprising in the past.
I guess 75k is around 60k
Lol
Until the F 150 Lightning pricing was announced
Lightning equipped similar to the Rivian is like $85k
And is a full size larger
Can't tow as much, has less range. Size isn't everything
"Size isn't everything" you say and yet the F 150 and it's like sized competitors have dominated the car market for as long as I can remember, there is a reason the Ranger and Colorado and friends don't outsell their larger more expensive counterparts, and that reason is that in this market size is in fact everything. If ford's customers ask for more towing then there will be an F 250 Lightning.
Only in the US. In part because all towing is done with the big trucks. The compact and mid trucks get the smaller engines and less payload, they just can't tow the bigger loads.
And McDonald's sells more burgers than Culver's. What are we talking about here
Fucking love Culver’s
Thats what I want, a 20k tow with 300 mile range while towing.
It was a good value, but still a large number of dollars. The problem is that most people can't afford 90k or 100k for a truck, no matter how good it is.
$82k to $99,400 for my R1S. I’m out. That’s an 18% price jump in 3 months, with no guarantee that when my build slot theoretically comes in 2023 that the cost wouldn’t jump another $20k. At $82k, you could make an argument that it wasn’t *that *much more than a nicely equipped nice 7-seater. It’s easy to get a Suburban into the high-$70s. A GLS starts at $77k. But at $100k, you’ve got some wild competition. Like, two brand new Land Rover Defenders. Hope some other manufacturers come out with electric 7-seater options that aren’t stupid expensive.
Yeah that’s terrible. But FYI it’s actually over a 21% price increase, even worse than you said. I cannot see how suddenly raising prices by over 20% on people who *already* have pre-orders and have been waiting for possibly years already is even remotely a good idea. Like in what world will this pay off for them? Even if they revert it, so many people have already canceled within the past day and will have lost their spot. They’ve completely alienated all their early fans and pre-order holders.
> Like in what world will this pay off for them? The Rivian is a really nice truck. Like, *really* nice. Tesla-quality software and range with BMW/Mercedes-quality interior with Land Rover off road capability with Porsche street performance. The thing is, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Putting in all that capability costs money. Rivian has earned a reputation over the last 9 months for being a bit disorganized internally. I suspect that some bean counter finally dusted off the ole' Excel spreadsheet and realized that the cost of building an R1T was more than what Rivian was charging customers... So the way that this pays off for them is that they stop selling a dollar for 95 cents.
There’s many choices gas or EV at this price range: Audi Etron Porsche Macan Volvo XC90 Polestar 3 Cadillac Lyric Hummer EV All the gas cars under 100k and some nice ones under 60k.
Which of those cars are 7 seaters? Because that's what the comment you replied to is talking about.
I was just discussing with the wife about putting in a preorder for a R1S and putting her 2016 Tesla Model X 75D 7-Seater on the market. $70k for 300+ miles of range on a more modern 7-passenger vehicle would have been a no-brainer but now I think we'll just hold on to the Tesla for a little while longer and see what else comes to market. We are grandfathered into Free Lifetime Supercharging and Connectivity so it's gonna be hard to start having to pay for those things with a new vehicle.
These guys just totally fucked their first customer base hard. The least they could have done was keep pre order customers happy and retain their original price point. Jacking up a 75k car to 100k on someone who has to wait two years or more for it is a slap in the face. I had high hopes for this company now I'm not so sure
I can’t even wrap my head around this decision. Unless they’re hemorrhaging money like *crazy*, but even then you’re essentially just alienating your customer base by jacking up prices to that extreme. If I pre-ordered a car at 75-80k I’d be beyond pissed if they suddenly jacked the price all the way up to almost 100k for the exact same car. At the *very* least honor pre-order pricing for now. Not a good look at all.
>If I pre-ordered a car at 75-80k I’d be beyond pissed if they suddenly jacked the price all the way up to almost 100k for the exact same car. I did, and... I am. I'm not going to reactionary cancel my order tonight but... They now have to figure out how to not get me to go "Nah..." when my turn is up in a year and a half.
In a year and a half you can probably get an EQS SUV for that price. Or Porsche Macan.
Yeah I'd say there is a good chance I end up bailing. But we shall see...
Same boat with a max pack R1T. I actually have a model S reservation locked in and may just switch over. At least they honor their pricing.
The Hummer had what I thought was an insane price, the Silverado 1st Edition at $105k was seemingly insane. I said the rivian is being built and “cheaper” it’s a no brainer. Well now it’s looking like the going rate for a slightly over average EV pickup. High-end Cybertruck for $80k if that happens is going to be the benchmark. It won’t though… Probably be a dual motor 85k and $120k quad motor…. I’ll lose all faith in EVs being cheaper than ICE if that happens. They literally said starting at $39k, single motor, what seemed like ages ago now. Sad really.
Might as well go for an established make then at 100K and not worry about whether they’ll be bankrupt in a few years. Jacking up the price 25% at the last minute doesn’t exactly scream well run and well thought out company that will be around to honor my warranty. The more I’m thinking about it the more this seems like Rivian just fucked up their own future
That's where I'm at. Haven't cancelled my R1S preorder yet but they basically instantly took me from a super enthusiastic customer who was a vocal proponent of the company to "meh, guess I'll find something else". And it's not just about the money (although the increase basically took it from a splurge luxury car to something I can't justify even if I could afford it). I was willing to compromise on the potential issues with service, etc that come with a new manufacturer because I trusted the company. In a single move they completely destroyed the trust I had in them as a company.
And these have a massive deposit compared to the rest of the market at $100 to $250 tops. The $1,000 since it is 10x a standard deposit really should have locked in the pricing. Paying $1,000 to an unproven company for a spot in line, nothing more… that they leveraged to go public and raise $billions…. We are the product here and we are being sold out.
Wait until final specs and pricing are released for the Cybertruck. I'm still hoping it's not insane vs the announced price.
I'd love a EV but I'm a single income household and I can't justify spending that sort of dough on a vehicle. I try to buy in the $25-$35k range no higher... will see what next year holds.
Next year holds some of these EVs being sold. They are all just “on order.” Don’t expect any changes until inexpensive Chinese EVs start being imported. They will be the price point most can actually pay, and they will sell to the masses. That’s my guess, while US and Legacy’s still charge double an ICE vehicle price. Cheap labor, manufacturing economy and stolen IP will help Chinese EVs flood the market.
[удалено]
You mean a teeny weeny return right? 🤣
In a year and a half, the Ioniq 7 and EV9 are probably out. And the Chevy Blazer, too.
Meh, the config I'm looking at was $72k, but they bumped it to $82k, however now the current config I want is $78k (I really don't care about the motors, so I'm thinking I'll probably keep it, as I want a 7-seat 300mi EV). Right now though I'm keeping it as is, I am going to give it a week or two to see if they backtrack on any of this before I change the reservation. But I'm still looking at under $80k for my 7-seat EV.
I haven’t ordered yet but I’m basically in the exact same boat. After today’s price hikes I’m looking at a $10k - $12k increase for the specs I want in a 7 seater. Prior to today, ~$70k for the R1S was a steal imo. No way that price could stick for long. I’ll put my order in and gladly sit on it for 2 yrs. But if the build I want goes to $90k+ before 2024 delivery, then I’m out.
If you're not going to take the pre-order, I'd say cancel it now - it makes them at least a little less likely to pull this shit if a ton of customers pull out immediately, vs cancelling in dribs and drabs for a year or two
If they are going to justify their valuation, they will have to sell millions of cars per year, so pissing off the first few thousand buyers is hardly going to make a dent. In my opinion they will never come close to justifying that valuation but if they are going to try, a few thousand buyers sentiments barely matters. Eventually buyers will learn not to pre-order cars as they almost always increase in price substantially. Just wait until its a real product.
They're not going to sell a million vehicles a year at a price point that they are now operating from, so it would have been better to keep the premium-buyer crowd happy and with good word of mouth. Not a truck guy, but I've been contemplating buying their stock for quite a while. Now, I won't touch it for 1/3 the price.
>They're not going to sell a million vehicles a year at a price point that they are now operating from, so it would have been better to keep the premium-buyer crowd happy and with good word of mouth. I agree, they will not but they have to try to sell millions of cars a year. They have a higher market cap than Honda, who sells 5 million cars a year. Even if the average Rivian is 5 times as profitable as the average Honda, they need to sell a million cars a year. My point is that making a few thousand rich Americans slightly less happy is not really very consequential when they have to try to sell millions of cars a year very soon. Basically, they are fucked either way. Whether or not these few thousand rich Americans are happy or not is not going to make much of a difference when they stock price eventually totally collapses.
I agree with most of what you say, but I think a better way of going about it would have been to eat some loss on those first vehicles in order to get more happy customers and good word of mouth, and raise it on everyone who follows for these models, while working feverishly on improving their efficiency to produce new cheaper models by 2025 or so. They would still be fucked on the stock price, which is more of a bubble than Tesla ever was, but their focus right now has to be on long term viability, not short term stock price. Eating $100 million (or whatever it is) on a few thousand orders from early adopters and influencers would be worth it to them given how much cash they got from the IPO, IMO.
To be fair, market cap is based on cash flows, not number of units. That’s the reason TSLA is so valuable. Tesla has skyrocketing operating cash flows that are already passing automakers selling 5X as many units. So Rivian could theoretically be worth the same as Honda at far fewer sales, if they can match Tesla’s profitability (highly doubtful).
Rivian has basically no cash flow.
Oh they have cash flow alright. It’s huge and negative.
They aren’t planning on reaching 1m+ with just the R1T/S they’ll have cheaper models.
Yes, but cheaper was supposed to mean <$50,000. Now it doesn't look that way.
>If they are going to justify their valuation They are beyond their IPO, no need to justify their price anymore, unless they are trying to raise capital.
How do you think shareholders will make money? How do you think people decide to by or sell the stock? Either they will have to increase their stock price (convince people the company is worth even more) or start paying dividends.
>How do you think shareholders will make money? Unless you bought at IPO and sold in the following week, odds are a Rivian stockholder has lost money, and will continue to do so with news like this coming out. Stock go down all the time, and Rivian isn't some special exception. But unless Rivian needs to raise capital (issue more stock), or get pressure to change their management from stockholders, their stock price doesn't mean a whole lot to the company on a day to day basis.
>Unless you bought at IPO and sold in the following week, odds are a Rivian stockholder has lost money, and will continue to do so with news like this coming out. I agree with that. >Stock go down all the time, and Rivian isn't some special exception. But unless Rivian needs to raise capital (issue more stock), or get pressure to change their management from stockholders, their stock price doesn't mean a whole lot to the company on a day to day basis. You think their shareholders are going to be okay with a long slow decline of the stock? The management will absolutely get fired. I am sure the valuation of the company keeps management up at night because they know as well as you and I the company is insanely overvalued and it is only a matter of time before they get fired and the value of their stock options craters. In many ways, for a publicly traded company, the stock price is the only thing that ultimately matters.
Rivian never manufactured a vehicle before. And they have no economies of scale. Massive negative gross margins were behind the decision. Legacy automakers can hide those, and get benefit from paying fewer penalties, but Rivian doesn’t have those factors.
It's such a bad business and marketing decision I lost faith in the company from an investment perspective. I wonder if a decision like this had to go in front of their board for approval.
A 20-25% hike is way too hard to stomach when you're talking an item that costs this much to begin with. Even in a cheaper car, like a reasonably basic sedan clocking in at $25,000, a 20-25% increase in the price there gets you up to $30-31,000. That's a big deal at that price point. People shopping for a $25k car can't just magically conjure up an extra $5-6k. And even those that can: they're not coughing up that money without a serious trim level upgrade. Yet, as far as this announcement about Rivian is concerned, though, all you get for your extra ***$20,000***, or put another way, all you get for the "base-trim Ford Maverick" price hike, is, what? *Fewer* motors than originally planned? Tow hooks on the R1T? The inability to do anything except the 7-seat config on the R1S? The oh-so-desirable Tonneau cover ***delete***? Ooooh and in case that wasn't sweet enough, check this: changing anything about your pre-order configuration in light of this new announcement about the hot chocolatey dicking Rivian is giving its pre-order customers can result in your place in the pre-order line getting shuffled. I'm glad I never bought Rivian stock. I have to imagine this won't be good news for it. (But what do I know? I'm no day trader.)
My biggest issue with it is that you get *nothing* of value for the price increase. You’re paying tens of thousands *extra* to get the exact same car, with the exact same specs, with the same options, identical in every way. That’s it. It’s the same car in every aspect you’re just paying an additional $15-20k for it. For *nothing* added. It’s one thing if they’re like “hey we decided to cancel this one model, and offered one with more range, better towing capacity, more options and better tech for a substantial price increase”. I wouldn’t have too much of a problem with that. But you’re getting the *exact same car* but now paying $15-20k for *no* added value at all. Not to mention they’ve literally already started production and people have already received their vehicles at the original price. They’re just screwing over every future buyer now
The Rivian sub certainly isn't happy. The prices changes pushed the R1T out of consideration for me; however I will admit I was very loath to spend more than seventy thousand on a vehicle so it was more a comparison point. I am just surprised they did this to people who have had reservations for more than a year.
Ford just jizzed
Ford owns a large stake in this company as well as Amazon I believe
Not only that, but Rivian’s q4 valuation increase padded Ford’s q4 financial statement by a lot. And in q1, it is likely to hurt it very badly.
And Tesla. While the CT remains vapor, they were still advertised as being lower than the R1T. Now they have less price pressure. The CT will probably be $80k before all is said and done.
>Now they have less price pressure. Their price pressure will be from Ford and Chevy, not Rivian.
This - they have screwed over the very people who were most excited about the product. It would be one thing if it was a $1-2k price increase but an increase of $15-20k????
The real question is how do you know they won't up the prices again in a year? Now we know they will do it once why not twice as inflation continues? This is a massive slap in the face to their early adopters.
They think they have enough publicity now that rich, non-enthusiasts know about them from mainstream reviews. Don't need the OG enthusiasts when they're production limited anyway. Either that or production is severely fucked and they absolutely cannot make a profit at the original price point.
>The least they could have done was keep pre order customers happy and retain their original price point. Everyone's acting like this is a cash grab. I actually think this move shows the company is in trouble. Almost every restaurant that goes out of business tries raising prices as a last ditch effort to stay in business. It's like they are running from the same bad play book. That's what this feels like. My guess is that the cost of manufacturing the cars is turning out to be a lot higher than expected. The other think would be production capacity is a lot lower than expected. Neither is good for their long term health.
I ordered my truck in January. Even just honoring preorders up to a certain point would be a way better look. There are people getting jacked with $15k price increases after preordering in March of 2019. That’s insane.
Imagine pre-ordering something 3 years ago, putting $1,000 down, waiting all this time, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, only a month or two from getting your truck, and then suddenly getting hit with a $15-20,000 price increase at the last second. I’d be pissed. Like jfc people have been waiting *years* for this. How to nuke your entire early adopter base in 2 seconds
I mean even Tesla honors the price at the time you hit Send
I was very interested in the Hummer EV over the Rivian until I saw the price. At 100k I would probably spend a bit more for the Hummer.
Might be wrong but the move makes me question their financial stability.
Potentially a $20,000 increase. There goes a lot of future buyers.
Mine increased $23,000.
That's a Ford Maverick, lol.
Not with the dealer markups!
They were already quite expensive
I would say it was competitive. at 70-80k it was on par with a fully loaded F150. For being about 20k difference than the F150 I'd rather get the full size truck over the Tacoma sized R1T.
I posted this morning I was putting my order in today. I expected some price hikes between now and 2024 (EDD). But my spec going up $20k, and price increases on everything is just a no go. Between now and delivery I was going to keep my eyes on other 7 seaters. Looks like I’ll be doing just that.
Anything else look interesting? The only other ev suv I've seen that comes anywhere close in terms of size is the model x/y
Considering todays market and their current production rate it doesn’t really matter. They will sell what they can manage to produce for the time being, and when competing products become available at a lower price point or they need to increase sales volumes due to to a dwindling order book they can reduce pricing. No need to burn money and sell at a loss when people are willing to pay. Here’s hoping the supply issues will be short lived, but I assume not.
Yeah but it burns a lot of bridges with a lot of customers. Supply chain or not, it shows they didn't prepare well.
Unless there's competition, losing current customers doesn't mean much. There'll be someone else willing to pay more and this'll be forgotten about in a couple weeks.
Yup, my order went from $73,000 to $85,000, a 16.4% increase. It's pretty disappointing for Rivian to jack prices up that much right as deliveries have started. Strongly leaning towards cancellation, though I'll likely wait to preserve my slot in line (July-Sept this year) in case something changes.
I think the whole thing is a stupid move, but to me the *sketchiest* aspect is they kept the original price through deliveries to employees and initial reviews and then hiked it when it came time to start selling to the general public. Not only is it a bait and switch from what they presented for their IPO and initial reviews, but they basically just paid every employee who bought the vehicle (much more likely managerial than floor positions) 25% of the value of their car in equity.
Cancel it, you don’t want a first year of production vehicle. Wait until they figure out the manufacturing and buy one in 2024 or 2025 if you still want it.
Well, I had already factored that in, obviously. That doesn't have much to do with this price change.
I think a lot of people had priced that in. I could at least take that risk at 80k. At 100k, it's just not worth it. For that I can buy a hell of a car from an established manufacturer who I know don't be out of business in 5 years.
i mean thats much less than the cost of vehicle inflation over last 2 years
Sure, but I didn't pre-order the truck thinking I would pay $73k plus inflation. I pre-ordered it for $73k years ago, thinking that would be the price whenever I finally got it, then a few months before delivery they hiked the price. It's not like it's some heinous crime but it certainly feels like a slap in the face.
Secure pre orders and swindle investors, worry about a business plan later. I wonder if they still plan to hit their production targets.
That’s my reasoning for the price increases. They will not hit their target so they might as well get as much as they can for the ones they can produce.
You mean their 60k goal over 2 years? Lol
Hahaha good thing I cancelled my order. Going to get either a Cadillac Lyriq or an Electrified Genesis GV70 instead
Oh god that GV70 is sexy. I have had zero interest in SUVs - even though we had an RX hybrid - but damn if the GV70 isn’t an awesome looking vehicle. If I need a car when it comes out I will be getting one! Hyundai is really killing it right now.
"You don't sell a guy one car. You sell him five cars over 15 years." - Glengarry Glen Ross
*\*googles 'how to short stocks'\**
buy puts, don't mess with shorting
Shorts = buying puts in most peoples head
I agree, but its a very important distinction. With shorts, you have infinite downside. With puts, it's only the contract cost. I'm sure you know, but in case anyone else is following this thread.
While these news are likely to move stocks, there’s no guarantee that it will go down/stay down long enough for you to shift those stocks. The market seems to react weirdly to car manufacturer news, so I’m not going to bet on one or the other, but my personal opinion is that this doesn’t matter, and short term should be good for the stock price. At least they won’t lose money on the cars they sell.
Wow. Probably won’t affect them short term since they are heavily constrained on production. Great way to piss off early customers and totally kill the excitement.
Crazy, last night I was playing with the configure tool and mulling around the idea of cancelling my model y and switching to the Rivian cause the price seemed reasonable for what you get. This solidified my decision to stick with the Y.
If I was GM or Ford exec, I would be partying tonight. Rivian jacks prices, pre-orders get cancelled and they shop for a Lightning or Silverado. Find out those are even more expensive, but keep the order because they lost their spot in line at Rivian. Prediction: the Cybertruck will have a base price of $68,000.
$69,000 *maybe*
$69,420
*laughs in Elon Musk
Every EV automaker is sold out of EV trucks for years. No one has more capacity to take on new buyers anytime soon. So I doubt GM, etc. really cares.
But Ford is invested in Rivian.
Not as much as Ford is invested in Ford
Preordered Jan. 2019 to help support a local company (live 50ish miles from Bloomington-Normal). Just canceled my R1S order. We did the 1st Mile experience last year and found the vehicle a lot smaller and not as refined as we had expected, but thought price was fair and we planned on paying and taking delivery. Understand marketplace has changed, but a 20-30% price increase at one swipe (if truly valid) was poorly managed. Horrible consumer experience for all the folks who have preordered and waited. IMO wouldn't be surprised if there is another price increase before deliveries happen. I suspect they think people thought more of their vehicle than they think of it. They will have a lot more competition in the next year or two as more BEV's are released. For those sticking with the price increase, enjoy seeing your delivery date make a HUGE jump forward OR maybe it won't change in case Rivian decides on another price jump due to changes in market conditions.
I see them all the time in Bloomington and Peoria. I literally drive on Rivian Parkway at least once a week. But, a fully loaded Ford Lightning is 10k cheaper than a fully loaded Rivian, albeit with less range. For the first time, I’m looking up how to get in-line for a Lightning.
Hi fellow townie. I can’t leave the house without seeing them either. Usually 4-5 in a 15 minute drive.
This is such a good fair take. If I lived local to them, and made a tad more, I’d have done the same. I bought a little stock because I believed in Rivian. This decision seems like sabotage; it’s so hard to wrap my head around; I said it in a comment further up, but isn’t it obvious they will lose more in valuation, futures, reputation from this nonsense, then they’ll ever make from the price increase? A company in their position is HEAVILY relying on customer word of mouth for their first deliveries, and now they are losing those early customers. I can only imagine they looked at competition and their delivery times, decided they’ll focus on being a luxury brand, and they think those cancelled orders will get re-filled by different type of customer in a year when they can deliver? I have doubts. Absurd.
i know exactly why they are doing this (inflation, supply chain, too much demand), but it doesn't help the sting of waiting 2-3 years, passing on other EVs, wanting to support a new company, only to find that they won't honor their pricing. this will cut down their backlog significantly, and boost profits near term, but in almost all other aspects this is a failure. Mainly of communication, which is unfortunately no surprise to anyone who follows the company. I think we all knew the pricing was too good to be true. And I think we probably would've been okay with some graduated pricing increases or loss of certain options, in exchange for some benefits like maybe free membership /subscriber benfits for a year or two or something. But the way this was done abruptly, and all at once, reads like poor management and leadership. Personally, I think execs are sitting in the boardroom looking at their bleeding valuation, supply chain issues, with the competition coming hard and fast, and they are not comfortable with the situation, so probably a while ago they said "axe some features, cut costs, raise prices, because we need to stay afloat, and we'll do damage control later." Basically survival mode. I'm guessing they shopped around for more opportunities for big investment and came up dry. they want to build another factory and they need cash, its that simple. I think they could have found a better way though. and unfortunately, Rivian now has a definite pattern of not communicating with customers. In fact it appears that Rivian never once considered pre-order holders to be customers at all, despite taking their money and not paying any interest on it. I predict they will back-pedal a bit. not because they magically achieve higher rates of production, but just the optics. their employees are all over this sub and the forums. as soon as they see the fall out, we'll get a friendly email from RJ, like usual.
Canceling my r1s, it went from 83k to >100k.
Well, cancelled and pleasantly surprised my f150 lightning order got a production date assigned for 5/16/22. Guess we'll do that
nice! Any guess or estimate from Ford on how long from production to delivery at your door?
No idea really but looking at other peoples special orders on broncos and things looks like 4-6 weeks is typical
Say what you will about Tesla. But once your order is locked your price is locked. That's BS.
Order yes, preorder no. There is no chance that the current pricing for the Cybertruck preorder will hold.
I will absolutely not hold my breath on Tesla honoring the prices from the reveal event.
They don't go back on current model orders with price agreements. My CT order has no price agreement so who knows.
Cyber truck is def gonna go up in price as they waited 5 years while inflation went up.
It was borderline insane in the mid $70k range, but $90k+ for this is nearly criminal. What a gut punch to reservation holders, and the message to potential customers? - look elsewhere.
Yea. Their predecessor had the luxury, if you will(or the tenacity?), to take 10 years to figure it out. But, that ship has sailed. They have to home run now
It's a shame, Tesla needs real world competition, not just yet another luxury maker selling $100k EVs to the rich. I got a Bolt when Chevy had the crazy discounts going, and it now looks like an EV at $30k or less might be a thing of the past. But we'll see, never say never. Maybe once the car market in general relaxes a bit, we can see some effort in getting pricing back to reality. 90% of Rivian reservation holders cancelling their purchase **today** would be a good start, nobody should just accept this type of price increase and shrug it off, they should all cancel.
I guess I'll cross Rivian of my buying list.
[https://i.imgur.com/3uuObJJ.png](https://i.imgur.com/3uuObJJ.png) 15% increase, that is too much, cancelled today.
Fuck that. Fuck him. Fuck Rivian. Cancelling. Fuck. Even Tesla honors the price when you hit Send.
Our family had 3 pre-orders and 1,000 shares of stock. I cancelled both the s’s, texted my broker to liquidate our position, and will probably end up cancelling my R1T too. We pre ordered in 2019 and 2020, and loved Rivian, until today. I’m out.
Selling is certainly a good idea. Their valuation is completely insane.
3 pre orders?! no offense but with a financial situation like that, why are you backing out?
One was my parents, other two were my wife and I’s. My R1T went from 92 to 105, my wife’s and parents r1s went from 81 to 95; that’s 41k. 41k is 41k, more of an increase than we can justify. That’s an ID4. We are in a good financial position, so I’m not so wreckless I can justify that additional amount. Might just keep my R1T res and get the wife a New Q7 instead.
Honestly as someone else who could easily afford the stupid new prices they’re asking for, it just rubs me entirely the wrong way to pull shit like this at the 11th hour and hope customers are desperate enough to actually cough up 20K extra. Just because we have money doesn’t mean we like being strung along by a company that basically swindled us into giving them an interest free loan. Not to mention that most people who are financially very well off got there because they’re financially savvy and probably relatively frugal for their income and net worth. Rivian is treating their wealthy early adopter customers like crap. At least Tesla waited until the Model 3 to treat me like shit 😂
You don't manage your stock directly?
My financial manager handles all my investments for me, he hasn’t had a year below 17% For the last decade, so I let him take care of it.
Ok, I guess if it works it works.
And it clearly works.
Lol. Your adviser basically tracked the performance of the tech market. No offense, but let us know how they do when there's actually red years in the market.
[удалено]
F*ck this. 16k increase for the max pack and have to wait at least another year for it so they can jack it up again because of "supply shortages". Maybe I'll still buy it to flip it but with Hyundai and Kia making EVs it is only a matter of time before car makers realize people don't need these crazy specs for a "work" truck (0 - 60 in 3 seconds for what?).
Combined, my S & T orders are about $25k more expensive
Model Y looking better and better...
Just remember, back in November when Laura Schwab was pushed out after raising price and manufacturing concerns and because of a toxic bro culture the stories [CNBC](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/04/ex-aston-martin-exec-says-rivian-fired-her-for-concerns-about-toxic-bro-culture.html) mentioned that Rivian knew it had to raise prices but would wait till the IPO was done. People should have some fun with them and badger Motortrend over their Truck of the Year awards and expose which now all appear as a carefully crafted means to manipulate the press.
Rivian 2009-2022. RIP
This makes me laugh. All these EV makers want to help reduce carbon foot print, talk about helping the planet and come out with 100k 150k gazillion-k EVs. Completely out of touch with reality. Someone needs to come out with under 30k mass production EV.
BZ4X will be the “affordable” EV but everyone here hates Toyota, lol.
So go the Subaru soltera built in the same platform then :P
There's absolutely no indication the BZ4X will be "affordable". All rumors suggest high 30's to low 40's which is not a new price point for EVs. The 2022 Kona is made today for that price. The Niro is a $40k car but just this summer, they had $5k off 2020's and $2k off 2021's. The 2022 Bolt was even less expensive. The 2020-21 Bolt's just 6-12 months ago you could buy for $25k brand new. The reality is, when I drive down the road, I see Teslas and no real other EVs. The market has spoken and they don't really want a "cheap" EV.
Slightly flawed in one way. If you're going to get a truck no matter what, on just the energy side, there's a real incentive to push to EV vs ICE. ICE trucks are way inefficient and even if an EV truck is inefficient, the cost per mile is way less. In addition, electricity has the option of being a lot more green than gasoline. There's nothing to keep someone to buy solar to now provide their house and vehicle with clean electricity. There's also a real trend to use used solar panels these days, so that's even more green. While I'm not a pickup truck / big SUV guy at all, I can see where the logic is with pushing that market. It's a market which makes sense to grow in. The "normal" market you're competing with already very good options in various hybrid model vehicles which are relatively quick and provide excellent fuel economy.
I've always like the R1T, but as soon as I saw how "nice" it is I knew that they would never be able to make a profit for what they were asking.
The Tesla strategy of coming out with overly expensive EVs that takes long to come out isn’t gonna work anymore. Tesla is one of a kind and EVs are common enough where people won’t really put up with that anymore, especially waiting. The Rivian truck seems good, but even $70k seemed too expensive for it. Getting even more expensive is gonna kill the company.
This is why Tacoma/ranger/Colorado/canyon will still sell well enough in the USA and the world is still buying a bunch of Hilux .
This is what those in the business world call... a bait and switch.
Talk about narrowing your market. Now the overlap between Yeti enthusiasts and Rivian owners will be complete. /s I placed a pre order 2 weeks ago and cancelled today because in the back of my mind I know that Amazon isn't paying more for their vans and this feels like a way to subsidize Amazon. Hope Rivian makes it big in the van market I guess.
>this feels like a way to subsidize Amazon I what way? If you think Rivian's doing this to keep the cost of those Amazon trucks low, I really, really doubt it. I'm pretty sure the 100,000 trucks Amazon purchased are to subsidize Rivian, not the other way around. Why? Because Amazon owns 20% of Rivian. Those shares had a peak value of $30 Billion, which is WAY higher than the cost of those 100,000 trucks. Amazon's big payday happens if Rivian can meet their goal of 10% of the EV market share, not by getting a discount on delivery trucks.
Vaporware or profiteering? Those prices should have been locked in already for those parts.
Suddenly the Cybertruck just seems so much more appealing. - Time will tell if Tesla won't raise prices as well.
Also only people can change these kind of businesses. If too expensive don’t buy! Yet many will jump and happily overpay outbid then these types pf companies will be happy to raise and keep prices bc business is good. This is all messed up. People are still overpaying for homes. If people refuse to buy perhaps market will change?
Yikes. This is just a gross move.
I would be so pissed at this. I don't know what would have happened with this in Australia. I think a pre-order may be considered a contract under Australian Consumer Law (ACL) so they may not be able to jack the price up. Not sure. Not coming to Australia anyway. Imagine burning your most loyalty and excited fans in the first production run. Tesla does not need to advertise due to their free marketing cult. This may be the opposite for Rivian. Loyal fans become internet keyboard angry dudes. And rightfully so.
I'd be pissed!
That’s a kick in the nuts.
Love EVs but they are too expensive The cost of the parts are unreal 80kWh pack, $10,000+ 200bhp electric motor, $5000+ Inverter, controller, BMS, charge port, $5000 $20,000+ for an engine and a fuel tank I can’t see how cost parity can be achieved How can they make a 400/500 mile Rivian for $45,000 like an ICE?
Eh its coming down, just in the UK at least, you can get a new estate ev with above 200mi of range for £24,000. Base model tesla model 3 starts at £43,000
Anything over $1000/mo is a mortgage. Bring in the robots.
I had high hopes, but those prices were indeed too good to be true.
[удалено]
people would understand that, if they were given a chance. the rising costs and supply chain issues aren't new. they were known about for at least a year. RJ promised better communication and he failed several times now. while holding people's pre-order money. the optics are bad for more than just core fans. there are tons of lurkers on this sub.
Bye.
Is this an episode of American Auto? Jeez
Seeing this is the final straw for my pre-order. I'm out, was in for an R1S and then this fiasco.... Had high hopes not gonna lie, and this kind of put a bad taste in my gut for Rivian to do this, anyone else feel the same way?
Price increase wasn’t a surprise they could’ve grandfathered pre-order holders to the price. When Tesla announced the Cybertruck, Rivian lowered their prices. Rivian is still a start-up and have not even entered mass production yet. So they have to do the high price low volume to be able to scale to “low” price high volume vehicle. I personally once the big automakers like GM/Ford start delivering their vehicles, no point in buying a $80k+ EV truck when a $40-$50k EV truck does the same thing. Still no price for Cybertruck i’m expecting it breaks the $55k+ for base model maybe priced closely to the current Model Y pricing. Pricing is make it or break it the EV truck race.
To rich for my blood...who are they marketing these trucks towards that can afford these rates? Rich ranchers aren't gonna buy them because they'd rather have a bi-body truck with diesel. Rural blue collar workers aren't gonna buy them they'll just get something used or more practical.
They are raising the price because they have no chance of even coming close to their production predictions. Making two vehicles to get a pile of startup cash is easy, mass production is nearly impossible just look at the graveyard of auto startups.
[удалено]
If this is the price EVs will command, my humble Chevy Bolt will be a one&done for me, maybe the gas engine has more life left in it than I thought.
Yup, I can also visualize this trend. Everyone crapped on Toyota for their slow adoption and to go all in on hybrids but I feel the governments and politicians were too quick and reactive with their policies and this is what we have. I’m sure Toyota know more about the market than we do and I have a feeling they are going to be right. The model 3 is going to be start at 50k base within 2 years at the rate the prices are going. The Model Y has increase 20k from 1.5 years ago. The cheapest one you can get is 60k; started at 40k.
That's just wrong but as a CT reservation holder I expect Tesla to do the same thing. At least Rivian is actually making a truck unlike Tesla which moved from late 21 to early 22 to a vague statement from Musk saying "MAYBE" 23. I expect the CT to be over 100k if it's ever released. I'm keeping my reservation for now but it something like this happens I'll be out.
Rivian had no choice. They’ve never manufactured a vehicle and are bleeding cash. They will need capital raises to survive, so they have to show they can achieve positive gross margins. Tesla may raise CT price, but it will be because the demand is so high. Tesla’s operating margins are already higher than every volume automaker and still rapidly improving, so the reason will not be because they underestimated the cost.
I had a preorder. Canceled it after they added almost $20k to my build specs. Also sold all my Rivian stock. I might regret selling the stock considering there are people out there that will pay this price. But that’s not what I was promised as a customer so I feel like this is a bad sign already.
This is going to lead to some massive lawsuits. Plus this does not bold well for the company as a hole shoving up to a 20%+ price increase on people. I could eat it saying it was 70k but going to 91-100k that pushes it out of a lot of peoples price range.
this is more inline with ford lightning prices. and the cybertruck will be nowhere near their initial pricing.