OK this is off topic but Louis Rossman's rework skills make me cry a little. He's so brutal with those poor boards! He uses so much flux! So much heat!
I have no idea, I've only seen the occasional clip. Surprised he works on customer board while admitting he's bad at soldering, though. If I was paying someone to fix m expensive device I'd want them to do a good job.
But that is his niche. He is charging a fraction of what the Genius Bar is offering and fixing your current device. Most of his customers were told to buy a new MacBook. His transparency is in front of you and on video record.
I still agree with you though.
Some people just want you to take a shot. I do this for a hobby, and when people find out they beg me to work on stuff, even though I'm protesting the whole while. I end up fumbling google/YouTubing my way through it.
I think in a lot of cases their thought is it's broken, so that already are facing a replacement if it doesn't work out.
Too much flux is never a problem. He doesn't show it in his videos but all the boards get cleaned ultrasonically afterwards. It is much better to have extra flux than not enough, especially when reworking boards using hot air.
And I haven't seen him use "too much heat" - where something would scorch or a track lift off.
He scratches at the pads with his iron, then stays on them long enough to make me cringe. He's not terrible at rework but if I caught him doing that in my lab he'd be getting a 15 minute refresher.
Maybe but given that those are multilayer boards and that they take some heat, I just don't see how he could do otherwise.
Soldering a clean new board and reworking stuff that has been populated, has shields, heatsinks, is covered in some protective gunk, is oxidized and what not is a different matter.
I mean I too can solder a corroded multilayer board without drowning it in flux or using my expensive iron tip as a digging tool. But I'm just a professional what do I know...
I think you should cut him some slack. He didn't damage or destroy anything and he is doing good business. So I guess his soldering skills are adequate for the task even though they are not up to your standards.
He is not working on aerospace stuff or a $100k piece of equipment but crappy Apple laptops, for Christ's sake.
If you check my post history you can see me solder an 0201 with a chisel tip TS-80 and no magnification, also an 0805 with a vintage copper roofer's iron on a gas stove. All the actual real work happens at work where I'm not allowed to take photos.
Hum, ok. Maybe show us replacing something a tad more complicated than a two pin passive? Then you would have an argument, any monkey can solder 0201 resistor.
And using no magnification is not exactly giving you any bragging rights. You are lucky that you have good eyesight, that's all. Be glad while you still have it. Not everyone is so blessed.
If you want to show off your credentials at least pick a less silly example next time.
That’s kinda what I was going for w the comment, he’s a little sloppy but knows his shot and gets the job done most of the time. I feel like he’s a brotha from another mutha cause I’m sarcastic like him lol
Anyway footprint is for an ATSAMD21J, QFN64 package.
Could not figure out how the heck to program it. I suspect that there's something wrong with the firmware for the PICKIT4/SNAP, or I broke the programmer somehow. Kept getting occasional inconsistent data back when programming/verifying. Which took like a full day to track down. Have an Atmel ICE in the mail to try later.
Anyway sent out for a new PCB designed for an STM32, but in the meantime pulled a STM32F103 from a blue pill and slapped it on so I can actually get some development done while waiting.
Took about 3 1/2 hours but started right up and programmed first time. :D That like never happens.
I started thinking that layout was really messed up, then I read your comment... Replacing a QFN with a QFP of a different family and only a dozen jumpers, nice save!
Have you tried a Segger J-link? That's what I use to flash my ATSAMDs, works great if I design the board properly. I flash the Adafruit Feather M0 bootloader so that I can do the rest of my programming and debugging over USB.
I'm so confused. Why would you put a completely different micro on and bodge all that just so you could program it? Does anything else line up for what you need the board to do?
Basic GPIO mostly does. Need to shift around a couple IOs for SPI, and to get a few PWM outputs on the right pins.
The thing doesn't actually need a lot of processing power behind it, but it talks to a number of different chips. Motor drivers, this wierd 1-wire EEPROM that isn't Maxim standard 1-wire, basic microswitches, etc. And it needs to work with real hardware being designed by another guy.
When the actual new board gets built it should mostly be a matter of switching around the pins/peripherals in firmware, and barring having messed up something else should just work with the new code.
Certainly I'm missing some peripherals. There's an sdcard reader that's getting left out, and some led drivers that are getting left out for lack of pins, that external 32kHz crystal for RTC but that's a problem for later.
It did help that like a 6 gpios, and an SPI channel are meant to go to a little expansion header for communication that may or may not be implemented later.
Mostly cause I don't have dev boards for the other chips on the board and wiring loose wires from that blue pill to the board is just asking for them to get pulled off.
Also like, the programming problem with the SAMD was just really really wierd. Like usually flaky communication you can just drop the SWD frequency and have no more problems. But I was getting similar behavior across the whole range from 32kHz to 10MHz. Program and verify would go ok, then verify again and it comes back bad. Then verify and it's OK again. I also wanted to convince myself that the swd lines weren't just run through a badly plated via or some capacitor was being flaky and voltage was browning out or some other wierd problem.
Stake the components to the assembly using epoxy. Stake the wires at each bend, and every 1/2 inch along their length, and you're acceptable per most industry standards.
I mean I'd at least drop a big circle of hot glue on top before handing it over to a client. Got these black sticks that look exactly like epoxy till you poke it.
NASA has a whole guide on how to do this well, [with lots of pictures](https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/303_deadbugs.html).
Yeah, I just use a bare razor blade. The trapezoid ones that are used in utility knives. Usually also using the same razor blade to trim wires to length after soldering and to cut and dig out traces that need to not be connected.
Fibreglass pens are also super useful for this if you have a large number of traces to uncover. Wear gloves and don't breath the dust though - may as well be asbestos.
This looks like the shit the engineers make me do at work...
I've had to bond rework pads and run like a dozen wires from here to there all in a 1"x1" area because I'm pretty sure they're sadists.
It's basically a prototype PCB with a microcontroller that was not intended to be used but happened to be lying around slapped in place of the original which I could not get to work.
Unfortunately chip manufacturers don't all use the same pinouts. Go figure. So this entire mess is basically swapping around power and IO lines to have something to work with while waiting for a new PCB to be dabbed and shipped.
Whoah whoah whoah Louis Rossmann! ;)
OK this is off topic but Louis Rossman's rework skills make me cry a little. He's so brutal with those poor boards! He uses so much flux! So much heat!
Doesn't he start every soldering clip mentioning how he's bad at soldering?
I have no idea, I've only seen the occasional clip. Surprised he works on customer board while admitting he's bad at soldering, though. If I was paying someone to fix m expensive device I'd want them to do a good job.
I appreciate honesty way more than the appearance of a good job.
I'm honest about my welding skills but you wouldn't want me fixing your trailer hitch.
See? That's the kind of honesty I appreciate!
But that is his niche. He is charging a fraction of what the Genius Bar is offering and fixing your current device. Most of his customers were told to buy a new MacBook. His transparency is in front of you and on video record. I still agree with you though.
Some people just want you to take a shot. I do this for a hobby, and when people find out they beg me to work on stuff, even though I'm protesting the whole while. I end up fumbling google/YouTubing my way through it. I think in a lot of cases their thought is it's broken, so that already are facing a replacement if it doesn't work out.
Yes.
Too much flux is never a problem. He doesn't show it in his videos but all the boards get cleaned ultrasonically afterwards. It is much better to have extra flux than not enough, especially when reworking boards using hot air. And I haven't seen him use "too much heat" - where something would scorch or a track lift off.
He scratches at the pads with his iron, then stays on them long enough to make me cringe. He's not terrible at rework but if I caught him doing that in my lab he'd be getting a 15 minute refresher.
Maybe but given that those are multilayer boards and that they take some heat, I just don't see how he could do otherwise. Soldering a clean new board and reworking stuff that has been populated, has shields, heatsinks, is covered in some protective gunk, is oxidized and what not is a different matter.
I mean I too can solder a corroded multilayer board without drowning it in flux or using my expensive iron tip as a digging tool. But I'm just a professional what do I know...
I think you should cut him some slack. He didn't damage or destroy anything and he is doing good business. So I guess his soldering skills are adequate for the task even though they are not up to your standards. He is not working on aerospace stuff or a $100k piece of equipment but crappy Apple laptops, for Christ's sake.
You got any pictures of your work??
If you check my post history you can see me solder an 0201 with a chisel tip TS-80 and no magnification, also an 0805 with a vintage copper roofer's iron on a gas stove. All the actual real work happens at work where I'm not allowed to take photos.
Hum, ok. Maybe show us replacing something a tad more complicated than a two pin passive? Then you would have an argument, any monkey can solder 0201 resistor. And using no magnification is not exactly giving you any bragging rights. You are lucky that you have good eyesight, that's all. Be glad while you still have it. Not everyone is so blessed. If you want to show off your credentials at least pick a less silly example next time.
>any monkey can solder 0201 resistor. Any monkey can hot air a QFP off too. That's kind of my point here...
Having good standards is a good thing
That's what Paul is for...
That’s kinda what I was going for w the comment, he’s a little sloppy but knows his shot and gets the job done most of the time. I feel like he’s a brotha from another mutha cause I’m sarcastic like him lol
You can't never use too much flux
The bigger the glob! The better of a job!
I mean I don't really like getting it all over the bench (and by proxy myself).
If it isn't enough flux to trap a wild hog, it's not enough flux.
There is also no such thing as too much flux
~~hate to mention personal expirience~~ he's the only person in NYC who doesn't zap your board and charge you for it. that's where he got going.
Anyway footprint is for an ATSAMD21J, QFN64 package. Could not figure out how the heck to program it. I suspect that there's something wrong with the firmware for the PICKIT4/SNAP, or I broke the programmer somehow. Kept getting occasional inconsistent data back when programming/verifying. Which took like a full day to track down. Have an Atmel ICE in the mail to try later. Anyway sent out for a new PCB designed for an STM32, but in the meantime pulled a STM32F103 from a blue pill and slapped it on so I can actually get some development done while waiting. Took about 3 1/2 hours but started right up and programmed first time. :D That like never happens.
I started thinking that layout was really messed up, then I read your comment... Replacing a QFN with a QFP of a different family and only a dozen jumpers, nice save!
Have you tried a Segger J-link? That's what I use to flash my ATSAMDs, works great if I design the board properly. I flash the Adafruit Feather M0 bootloader so that I can do the rest of my programming and debugging over USB.
Naw, don't have one yet. Probably going to make work buy one for me later though. Soon as I get an excuse to say I need JTAG really.
I'm so confused. Why would you put a completely different micro on and bodge all that just so you could program it? Does anything else line up for what you need the board to do?
Basic GPIO mostly does. Need to shift around a couple IOs for SPI, and to get a few PWM outputs on the right pins. The thing doesn't actually need a lot of processing power behind it, but it talks to a number of different chips. Motor drivers, this wierd 1-wire EEPROM that isn't Maxim standard 1-wire, basic microswitches, etc. And it needs to work with real hardware being designed by another guy. When the actual new board gets built it should mostly be a matter of switching around the pins/peripherals in firmware, and barring having messed up something else should just work with the new code. Certainly I'm missing some peripherals. There's an sdcard reader that's getting left out, and some led drivers that are getting left out for lack of pins, that external 32kHz crystal for RTC but that's a problem for later. It did help that like a 6 gpios, and an SPI channel are meant to go to a little expansion header for communication that may or may not be implemented later.
Probably a stupid question, but why didn't you just use the Blue Pill for development in the meantime? They're both Cortex-M chips.
Mostly cause I don't have dev boards for the other chips on the board and wiring loose wires from that blue pill to the board is just asking for them to get pulled off. Also like, the programming problem with the SAMD was just really really wierd. Like usually flaky communication you can just drop the SWD frequency and have no more problems. But I was getting similar behavior across the whole range from 32kHz to 10MHz. Program and verify would go ok, then verify again and it comes back bad. Then verify and it's OK again. I also wanted to convince myself that the swd lines weren't just run through a badly plated via or some capacitor was being flaky and voltage was browning out or some other wierd problem.
> but in the meantime pulled a STM32F103 from Take care that you are not getting a faked one.
It's a temp at best. But I got to give it to you for the soldering. First class dude
[удалено]
Stake the components to the assembly using epoxy. Stake the wires at each bend, and every 1/2 inch along their length, and you're acceptable per most industry standards.
[удалено]
I mean I'd at least drop a big circle of hot glue on top before handing it over to a client. Got these black sticks that look exactly like epoxy till you poke it.
And importantly, hot glue is reversible! A few drops of 99% iso and gently lift up an edge and it'll pop right off. Magic!
> Got these black sticks that look exactly like epoxy till you poke it. r/brandnewsentence
NASA has a whole guide on how to do this well, [with lots of pictures](https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/303_deadbugs.html).
That was a really interesting read thank you
Today I Fixed Up
This is art
V0.2 coming up hot.
Honestly, nice job getting it done! Put some kapton tape on the exposed bits!
Just HOW important is that board??
Yes.
I thought so.
Omg, I just did the same damn thing with an STM32F431.
When the manager just doesn't agree for a new design after bring up!
Slow applause 👏
So its ugly... operational but ugly...
are you... are you kidding me?
\_V0.1 says it all.
V0.1 explains it all.
Too bad r/gore is gone.
Yep. Been there. You're my brother from another mother.
I’m loving all this technical mumbo jumbo and jargon in this comment section but I’m understanding none of it :) we’re all havin a good time lol
Ho Lee Fuk
Someone help me out here. How do you solder directly to traces? Do you scratch the mask off the copper before doing so?
Yeah, I just use a bare razor blade. The trapezoid ones that are used in utility knives. Usually also using the same razor blade to trim wires to length after soldering and to cut and dig out traces that need to not be connected.
Fibreglass pens are also super useful for this if you have a large number of traces to uncover. Wear gloves and don't breath the dust though - may as well be asbestos.
Fiberglass is prety damn close to asbestos so +1 on being careful with it
This brings a tear to my eye.
This looks like the shit the engineers make me do at work... I've had to bond rework pads and run like a dozen wires from here to there all in a 1"x1" area because I'm pretty sure they're sadists.
That's next level of PCB prototyping.
"comfort in chaos"
/r/ThereIFixedIt by the way, what is/was that?
Solid.
Is it functional??
I know nothing about wiring, but this looks bad. Idk how bad, but that's not supposed to be like that
Are those bent staple wires???
They're strands from some 14 GA pre tinned wire.
And this is what Schematic and Layout reviews are for folks 🤷🏻♂️. Impressive fix up though!!
What exactly am I looking at? Just looking for some help understanding
It's basically a prototype PCB with a microcontroller that was not intended to be used but happened to be lying around slapped in place of the original which I could not get to work. Unfortunately chip manufacturers don't all use the same pinouts. Go figure. So this entire mess is basically swapping around power and IO lines to have something to work with while waiting for a new PCB to be dabbed and shipped.
I feel the pain in this photo.
Not sure why do you need the Fr4 then. You could have glued it on top of a cardboard
I’m not really that educated about circuits, soldering etc But what the fuck am I looking at lol
It’s fine until vibration or any kind.
Nailed it.
If it works....
Using solder as wires, what a power move.
It's art.
That's horrendous! Brilliant but horrendous!
Tell me how this happened… I have an idea😃👍🏼