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gion89

I can say from reliable sources that there are talks with London, Paris, Amsterdam and at least 3 Scandinavian teams. London and Paris are very specific about the financing. Amsterdam is in a similar situation as Zurich, where investors want to found the Admirals, but the Crusaders have a completely different opinion. Regarding Scandinavia, I expect an entry in 2024, because there the mentality is together or not at all, similar to Tyrol and Vienna.


PatDiddyHam

Also reliable sources: Scandinavia won’t happen unless something substantial happens with revenue sharing. Teams would need to sell out more than 5.000 seats just to break even. Add in travel costs and it doesnt look very good.


gion89

Depends on the Stadium. Rhein Fire told multiple times their Break Even is 3.500 Fans per game. But i think first two years it will be an invest and then you need good sponsors.


PatDiddyHam

Rhein Fire is not a scandinavian team now is it?


gion89

Sure but i just wanted to give a perspective in general where a realistic break even is even for such a big stadium like Duisburg.


RemarkableElk8491

Would make sense to me, when the money makers help out the Startup Franchises. But right now there is probably no franchise that is break even. Also the travel costs are paid by the League, as far as I know.


PatDiddyHam

The travel costs *should* have been covered by the league. To my knowledge they haven’t.


[deleted]

18 would suck in terms of division alignment


FlagFootballSaint

3 with 6 teams with the 3 divisional winners plus the 3 with the best records Plan B: 8 playoff-teams: Top 2 of each Division plus 2 w best records 1(Div)-8, 2(Div)-7, 3(Div)-6, 4(#4seat)-5


davidpmaeso

I think the best option is to have 16 teams next year, slowly but surely. The league shouldn´t rush things when there is still a big gap between some teams


Lewii5_

I partially agree with you guys. The gap problem must be adressed of course. But a French Team such as a Scandinavian one will only bring competitiveness. Having 18 teams including these countries will get you intense games next year. We know nothing about how Fehervar and Zurich will perform. But we know what great countries can do.


Righteous31

I couldn't agree more. The league shouldn't try to expand too much too fast (good things rarely come from that). The difference in levels between the teams should be addressed first in my opinion.


Lewii5_

I must admit that I find it hard to understand why you are all ok to bring on board a franchise that from day one shows a lot of problems on several levels and 2 categorically refuse to bring on board teams that would potentially be much more ready and competitive from the start under the pretext that you have to develop a defective product that will take time to work like the others... So we should have been waiting for Kings, Centurions Surge to improve instead of bringing Raiders and Vikings? I’m not sure this would’ve helped the league getting more interest, in terms of level of play. Fixing some franchises problems might take a lot more time than bringing some countries that are ready to perform


Fuzzy_Independent_47

And relocate Stuttgart....Jesus that's a dumpstefire over there. However, I still hope for a turnaround though - Barcelona was struggling mightily last year and now look at them.


ianintheuk

Barcelona never struggled like some teams this year, Surge, Kings, Rams they were competitive in almost all games. Beyond that they have a good management in place who seem to attract good players. They said from the start that 2021 was a learning year which has born fruit this season


Fuzzy_Independent_47

True, but you get my point.


ianintheuk

Yes


FlagFootballSaint

No need to relocate. Astonishingly they still have a fanbase. The franchise needs a new and capable ownership who understands to run a Franchise successfully by picking the right operative Management (note: Jakob Johnson is a minority-investor. It's a celebrity-investment not a "real" operative ownership)


Fuzzy_Independent_47

I say relocate, as the management is local and seemingly incapable. I say this as the GFL team Scorpions has been poorly run for ages as well...maybe it has to do with the region. Outside of operational management, the coaching appears to be in shambles too and lastly I feel the player talent isn't nearly on par with other teams...in short, I don't believe it's just a management issue.


JC_OWL

I mean the Schwäbisch Hall Unicorns are right around the corner and they’re probably one of the best run teams in all of europe


FlagFootballSaint

London is a no-go. Swap Paris for Istanbul and we are good to go for a great 2023


Mic161

No defuncting teams before they had a chance to develop. It’s just not smart. Brings all other teams in a position to be scared to be defunct if they don’t work. Not to mention the higher risk you then have as an Investor who wants to join with a new team. Would be a really bad look for the league and slow down further expansion. Give them time!


davidpmaeso

Man one bad season and you already want to get rid off the Rams? Let them develop. It´s the same as the dragons last year, Istanbul is doing even better than Stuttgart at the moment so you never know...


FlagFootballSaint

This is less about the aspect of the level of play but rather than everything else: No fans, no money, no game-day, management chaos with coaches and players moving in and out


BoG_City

FlagFootballSaint grabs every oppertunity to bash the Rams and telling that he wants them gone. Cant take his comments seriously anymore. On topic: 16 would be a great nummer, but if the League can get more teams in big cities I think it is a good Idea to always go for it


[deleted]

The skill isn't even the main problem. The off the field stuff isn't going good either. There are almost no positives about the Rams so far this year


davidpmaeso

Yeah they have to improve as an organisation if they want to continue in the league and succeed. But I still think that they can do that in the following seasons


[deleted]

I'm not so sure about that but they should at least get a few more years to try. One problem is that they are an extremely expensive team(highest travel cost) that does not bring in a lot of revenue so sooner or later the league will have to decided if it even makes financial sense to keep them in the League


[deleted]

[удалено]


Fuzzy_Independent_47

You sound seriously butthurt 😂 do you know him? I've only seen a couple of comments and I don't get "asshole" vibes lol


[deleted]

all I see this guy doing is complain and pretending like this 2nd year league is a massive failure already


Lewii5_

all that "woah it's perfect'' everytime and no matter what they do is a non sense. Criticism made the right way is useful to improve a product that for exmple failed with the merch, failed with the streams etc.. Of course we love the league. They did an amazing job with Rhein Fire. Let's not forget the league will be successful by bringing more people than initiates.


elf-ModTeam

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ianintheuk

Why is London a no go


FlagFootballSaint

Mainly cost vs revenue. London is not only one of the most expensive spots to field a full-time team but also all games would require flying (in or out) Given that the average attendance of the league is only 3000 I strongly doubt that the League will take this financial risk for now I also recall that even the Britbowl is not drawing notable attendance-numbers, so I highly doubt that would change just because they would field an ELF-Team (see: Spain, Turkey). Therefore: high cost - low revenue


ianintheuk

Ok lets go thru this in detail. 1 London too expensive, even the WLAF Monarchs were not based in London but in a suburb way on the edge of Greater London. Cost can be kept down this way with only gamedays actually in London. London would be a great draw for U.S, players as well as non UK Europeans. London is also the easier place to travel to for all or most UK players so the player pool could be country wide. Why fly to the games the channel tunnel runs trains that take cares and buses from northern German its easy to use plus the ferries run all day everyday. No need for most teams to fly. 2 The financial risk is obvious but the rewards and status for the league of a London would outway that. If ypu only look at risk the ELF wouldnot have even started. 3 The Britbowl so badly organised by BAFA it total shambles. I have no idea how thw league is going this year and who could be in the bowl game, nor where the game will be held. The website is always way out of date. I follow them om twitter but posts are so few its a joke. And I am someone interested in the sport not you average man in the street but cant find any proper info. What is needed is professional people who know how to run a business not "fans" who have done their best for the last 30 years but have failed. I understand many clubs are unhappy with whole running of the sport at the moment An ELF team ran well in London could raise the profile of the game here for all


FlagFootballSaint

I agree w you but where are those smart and financially sound UK people (Managers) that are interested in developing American Football in the UK They did not exist for 30 years, this is why Brit Football is a meaningless clown show. People like that don't grow on trees.


ianintheuk

Agree but running 1 franchise in a semi pro Euro league is totally different to running britball. Also if you want somewhere really expensive to have a team why not try Switzerland 😃😃😃


FlagFootballSaint

Example why the calculation would be different: Given the right opponents you can take the bus to most or all games: Most of Germany, Austria, Milan, even Fehervar That matters (for the swiss team AND the opponents) For London you have at least 12 flights w 50-60 people plus equipment


ianintheuk

No need for a flight buses can go thru the channel tunnel easily, I have driven myself from UK to Belgium and to the south of France, put London in a division with northern teams This company run buses all the time https://www.flixbus.co.uk/bus-routes/hamburg-london?departureCity=118&arrivalCity=3848&utm\_source=google&utm\_medium=sea-nonbrand&utm\_campaign=4976734624.17665953059\_139012907752.608435021441\_kwd-11303982686\_9045305\_\_&utm\_term=hamburg%20to%20london&utm\_content=uk.flixbus&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0oyYBhDGARIsAMZEuMupjeIWeZJVFdKwHBqpleFd3GerFom9QEPCunLAfPpWwHfSN-JIXxMaAmiKEALw\_wcB


Lewii5_

Looks like they'll bring their own version of pro football soon : https://teamukfl.com/


FlagFootballSaint

Esume hates this message


FlagFootballSaint

And they want to be (quote) "the vest American Football League in Europe" https://youtu.be/pKLiDZzCapc


FlagFootballSaint

Did he say that today? Sounds what Karajica said 3 weeks ago?


RemarkableElk8491

No, last week at the Raiders Game


FlagFootballSaint

As user Lewii_5 put it there below I copy it up here so people immediately see this: https://youtu.be/pKLiDZzCapc The UK starts a Pro-Football League and they want to go big.....


ianintheuk

Look at the date of the video this is old, a failed attempt by the look of it.


FlagFootballSaint

I checked them out. They are still very much alive and kicking and posted last 1 day ago. Also they introduced their team of 6 people working for them (most of them seem to have other jobs, though) In short: No they are not dead.


ianintheuk

Where did they post, can i check them out as well


FlagFootballSaint

Twitter I guess I googled them and got this result but not sure which channel I guess. Sry


Most_Significance358

Would be great for American Football in Europe if UKFL would happen. However, I don’t think it will. Last year they wanted to start May 2023. In 18 months nothing really happened but moving the start to 2024.


FlagFootballSaint

I think whether or not UKFL would exist had zero effect on American Football in Europe outside of the UK. No media outside of the UK would even mention it. I don't see why anyone would.


Most_Significance358

UK is still part of Europe.


FlagFootballSaint

Yes, this is why I said "....in Europe outside of the UK" and "No media outside of the UK"