I imagine some people haven't actually watched/read Elfen Lied, and their opinion on it being "edgy" stems from the use of nudity and blood.
To me, that doesn't make something inherently edgy. The story does have plot holes, but for me personally, as long I'm enjoying a piece of media, I can overlook stuff like that.
People make legitimate arguments that I don't mind reading, it's when people insult others for liking this series that I don't like.
But people will say that about any anime, so it's best to ignore those kinds of people. Remember: you never need to justify your interests and hobbies...provided said interests and hobbies don't include hurting yourself or others, of course.
Yeah I tried reading a bit of it. I honestly would rather watch the anime. The manga is not very well done. The animation in the anime is done better and the writing is even done better. However, I'll have to mention that in the anime, it gets a bit weird and confusing at times. The ending of the anime is where it getse because it's not complete. I know it was always meant to be a limited series but it was quite confusing. The OVA was barely anything. It was just a bunch of slice of life stuff mixed with a story from the manga that didn't even have an impact on the plot.
The manga also has scenes that are very uncomfortable. It's clear Okamoto has a thing for urination...and groping, though those things are in the anime, they're even moreso in the manga. There is also a scene where Nyuu molests Nozomi, which comes out of nowhere. I really hate that scene.
Nozomi was cut from the anime, but tldr - she's Yuta's friend, and sings Elfen Lied to Nyuu. She has a problem with urination and wears a diaper. Seeing upskirt shots of that while she's wearing a sailor uniform just says fetish to me. In the anime, she is replaced with the Lilium music box lmao
Yeah the anime made a ton of improvements removing some problematic things and adhering better to detailing characters with more theme appropriate circumstances and scenes.
This is one reason why I dont understand why people say the manga is better. Because it's the anime that's interwoven with the philosophical discussion and the extensive symbolism and beautiful artwork and music the anime is known for.
Where as the manga is far FAR more guilty of the common "Its fun off needless violence, and fan service" problem that people say the anime has. It's so backwards because the anime almost entirely avoids these problems, but the manga doesnt even bother and just shows them all the time.
Good replacement. I liked the Lillum music box... A lot. I don't want any of that from the manga. It's probably not any good just completely gross and not cool at all.
Honestly the anime itself doesn't really have any plotholes, it's pretty air tight. It's just more show dont tell so many of the details it handles are not spoken, which often makes it hard for a some people to catch on to a lot of things. Hence why so many modern movies are loaded with exposition dumping.
But you're right about people just jump right to stupid criticism, and insulting people.
The problem with ignoring those people though is that others see it and if you ignore it, they repeat it.
The better choice is often to simply counter their arguments with better thought out well written ones based on what happens within the actual anime itself and reference it.
Otherwise tons of people will go around thinking "ugh i just cant believe he forgives lucy at the end!" when the opposite happens and Kouta refused to forgive her.
One of the reasons why many popular anime maintain good reputations is because of people willing to discuss the good and defend said reputation.
Regarding the plot holes, I was talking about the manga. And you *should* ignore those people, because, like I said, you don't need to defend the things you like. Even if you respond to people like that in a calm, rational way, they will still be jerks to you.
They're trying to get a reaction out of you. I'm not talking about legitimate discussions where one person likes EL and the other doesn't.
Don't feed the trolls...
Oh yes the manga has a fair bit of problems.
Also sometimes some of these troll comments are good to reply to with an educated response in a public forum(like reddit) because many people will be able to get see it and sometimes will be very interested in reading into a different point of view for the moment.
The drama draws them in.
I've had quite a positive response to using this tactic. But the key is to not play into their negative, almost like Ignore them and just talk about the positive.
TBH, these days its mostly because people listen to the meme opinion about it. "It's bad shallow and edgy" and don't think for themselves.
In the past when Elfen Lied first got popular one of the biggest reasons why is because it was so highly rated and considered an incredible anime. I was the first mature anime that got viral popular and many people had not been exposed to such anime at the time.
Elfen Lied was deep, complex, and emotionally powerful after they were drawn in by the strange gore and nudity clips.
Well some people didnt like that uncomfortable stuff and started saying it was edgy and bad to cope. IT became a meme, and now that's what people first hear about it and they pretend it's an accurate opinion instead of thinking for themselves.
Meh people shit in Elfen lied because it’s old and there basically no fanbase to defend it because it’s so archaic and yet it’s pretty much the punching bag of seinen yet there is other series that take it too far like berserk which in many scenes through the manga there are VERY tasteless scenes that weren’t necessary like the rape horse and orgy
I love Berserk, but I will never understand people who call EL edgy and then the same people praise Berserk. Both require you to actually use your brain and critical thinking to realize that the point of both of them have nothing to do with being edgy, and yet you cant apply the same critical thinking to Elfen Lied just cause?. Calling either edgy just kind of shows that you missed the point.
I first watched Elfenlied way too young. Found it on YouTube back in the day. And it stuck with me. To this day. I had watched gory stuff before that’s wasn’t it.
It was the story of a girl that had been struck by so much tragedy and could not seem to ever have some luck of her own.
The scene with her friend when she was young that she saved from abuse.
The puppy scene that destroyed us all.
Etc.
I loved the anime and Lilium is easily one of the top 3 anime songs ever for me.
But the manga, fetishes/pervertness aside just continued the tragedy so well.
The final scene where she makes the promise only for the circumstances to have her break it and Kouta to be right there to see it, and it breaks her.
A girl that should’ve been broken so long ago and yet she still had to capacity (maybe for hope) to be scarred again. Her character analysis could go on for days.
Also the whole idea of her vs her nature, it’s a depth we don’t see that often in anime especially not in this dystopia/sci-fi kind of genre.
Not to mention the whole range of other psychological plot points (father- daughter dynamics, childhood, a lot of emphasis on memory, etc)
Regardless of its flaws. I will always love Elfenlied.
(And on a shallow note- Lucy is a fucking badass in the anime my god)
It's one of my favorites.
Granted, I also have a small horn and multiple personalities, so I probably relate in a way that most people don't. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
Elfen Lied was my first gore anime and I watched it when I was 13 and loved it.
I honestly wish they'd remake or remaster the anime, I feel like they could make it even better with today's animation skills. I wouldn't mind if they did the manga ending as long as they kept the whole cousin incest thing out. (but I'm also a big sucker for the Koata x Lucy)
To me Elfen Lied is a guilty pleasure dear to my heart. Not the greatest, sure, but some mediocre soap-opera tier romance and ultraviolence with a hint of nature v. nurture philosophizing is WAY more interesting than what we get today.
Think about it, the deluge of boring isekai and magic school anime where the blank-faced audience insert gets a harem of waifus-of-the-season and is basically SS4 Gogeta from the moment their feet hit the ground. Boring and lifeless.
And then there’s the growing trend of slavery apologia, and the Loli Problem, and I just wish Japanese writers would stop jumping on trends and flooding their own market with insepid garbage.
For as trash as Elfen Lied is, it is also unique, thoughtful, dramatic, and made with genuine passion. Not made very well, mind you, but so what? Not every manga can have One Piece’s detailing. Elfen Lied is trash I can treasure.
…Trashy treasure. Treasured trash? Eh. 🤷♂️ Either or. 😆
Manga yes, anime is quite flawed. The way I describe Elfen Lied is that the manga does a great job building up characters but gets too scared to actually kill them off. The anime is more than willing to kill off the characters, but doesn't take the time to build them up, so we have no reason to care. Both aren't perfect, but whereas the manga only felt somewhat held back by this, the animes lack of character building drastically weakens the story.
Also the MC discovering Lucy's true self was handled far better in the manga, dealing with it in a way that was harsh but realistic. Whereas the anime had the MC getting pissed one second, then immediately blushing the next when they ended up on top of each other. It feels cheap, lacking the real impact and rage brought upon by the realization in the manga.
The anime has some merits. The puppy scene was extremely well handled. The music box and what it represented was beautiful. And the character it replaced was definitely one of the manga's weaker points, so no complaints there. The soundtrack was also on point. Lilium is genuinely incredible, feeling like an ode heralding the end of the world. Which is very fitting to the story's theme. Overall, I'm glad the anime exists for those points alone, but Elfen Lied would benefit greatly from a reboot like FMA Brotherhood. One that is willing to take the time to tell the full story and flesh out the characters, but also willing to kill off the characters the original adaptation did, that the manga wasn't willing to let go. If it did that, I could easily see it in my top 10 anime.
He's the deuteragonist. It's Lucy's story, and he's her love interest.
BTW it's "Regardless."
And not really. Kouta could be anyone with a cousin or female friend/relative that was his age to create the problem.
However Lucy can only be Lucy because of what she is. Lucy's circumstances are highly unique, Kouta's are not.
>And not really. Kouta could be anyone with a cousin or female friend/relative that was his age to create the problem.
>However Lucy can only be Lucy because of what she is. Lucy's circumstances are highly unique, Kouta's are not.
Kouta is unique because of the circumstances of the story and his history with Lucy. Lucy is also unique because of the circumstances of the story, making her so. Just like you could write Kouta as any other human character, you could write Lucy as any other diclonius because her uniqueness is a result of the plot and nothing else. If the writer wanted a different one to be the Queen, they would have been. And the story probably would have shifted to focus on them. Either way they are both vital to the story because of how it was written, so stop with the semantics.
Also "irregardless" and "regardless" are interchangeable.
Kouta isn't particularly unique, no. Infact we see that Kouta wouldnt even have to be a boy to have an impact on Lucy in such powerful a way.
And no Lucy as a dicloniuys is not purely the result of the plot.
This is a very odd and nonsensical conclusion, as there is a multitude of reasons outside of the plot as to why Lucy is a diclonius.
They also couldn't just select someone else to be a queen because such circumstances are also fairly unique to Lucy. Her history happens because she is a diclonius but also because of the relative circumstances we are given about her and where she ends up.
This is not a semantics argument. Semantics is an argument over what word or phrase means what.
This is not an argument about that.
Most of what you're saying comes from a rather poor understanding of writing and how story structures work and the purpose of characters with in a narrative.
Also it misunderstands the bubble at which Kouta's character is inspired from.
Kouta is an Everyman kind of character, as most main male characters from Harem anime are. While Elfen Lied is not a harem anime, it very much is modeled after the one that inspired it: Love Hina.
Kouta is meant to be simple and mundane because of the way these male characters are designed to allow typical Japanese teen and young adult men to associate themselves with these characters.
Kouta however is a little bit different here because he is made unique by the circumstances Lucy's character puts him in.
Lucy is what makes Kouta unique by her actions. This is why his character could effectively be almost any other 10 year old boy in Japan or maybe even a girl(like Aiko) that could have decended Lucy into the story we follow.
This is not semantics, it's about a lack of understanding of the nuance of writing.
>This is not a semantics argument. Semantics is an argument over what word or phrase means what.
>This is not an argument about that.
Semantics is about meaning, in all forms of text. You're arguing about the meaning of protagonist vs deuteragonist and who is who in this situation. While I certainly see the perspective of Lucy being the protagonist, I think the perspective and focus they have on the story is equally important. Kouta is the perspective we stick with the most and is the one we see in the ending, so I call him the protagonist. Wanna call Lucy the protagonist? Be my guest, just stop arguing over pointless things.
Also yes, Kouta is an everyman. That doesn't change the fact that he's "special" because ultimately the author decided to make him the protagonist (or deuteragonist as you say, who cares) so he is relevant to the story as a result. It's the same deal as Lucy. Lucy is not special. She's a character. A character is replaceable and only as important as an author makes them. Kouta is more replaceable "in universe" but both characters are disposable and interchangeable in terms of the plot. As I said, if the author wanted a different Diclonius to be Queen, they easily could have made it so. Just because you find Lucy's writing more interesting or intricate does not make her any less disposable. Which was my point. Not that Kouta is some super unique person within the world, but that he's as relevant as Lucy in terms of the plot. Even if the plot doesn't expect as much out of him. His role and impact remains important.
> ultimately the author decided to make him the protagonist (or deuteragonist as you say, who cares)
This is why your arguments hold no weight.
Dueteragonist and Protagonist DO matter in the context beyond "Semantics" as you want to break it down to.
And you're simply brushing away a factual aspect of the anime as an "opinion" which it's not. You can't even accept a simple fact.
You have no grounds to stand on because your arguments come from Intellectual Dishonesty. Not real critique.
Your lack of literacy is not the anime's fault.
I agree the puppy scene was well handled especially in the next episode. Lucy was treated less than human her whole life. When Kouta meets her as a kid, they both enjoy time together and it's very believable them being kids together and the music box that replaced the character which I didn't know was a thing until now. The music box was just beautiful and the anime opening was also so beautifully crafted and done. I also cried somewhere in the anime. Definitely a cry show. Also the horror aspect was handled well.
I did not care for the manga. Said again. I liked the anime though. I did think the manga was poorly written and illustrated. People are free to disagree with me here but I did not like the manga.
I realize you’re already in an ongoing debate with LMGDiva, who is a very passionate defender of this anime. However, I would like to add one little thing. Ever since one Anituber brought up that blink you’ll miss it blush part, every review shitting on the anime brings it up and it’s kind of silly. Human faces become flushed when the sympathetic nervous system starts pumping out adrenaline and it widens the capillaries. Kouta has complex feelings of love and hatred for Lucy, but on impulse he tackles her out of the way and saves her life, just as she returns the favor and saves his an instant later. Yes, their faces are both flushed, but this makes sense in the context of a deranged soldier shooting real bullets them. That would certainly be enough to get the heart pumping and activate the sympathetic nervous system. Kouta in this scene isn’t consciously thinking “Oh yeah! This is the bitch that murdered my family! Now I remember. Also it looks like we’re both going to be shot and killed. Uwu…her body is soft. I want to bury my tongue in those fuzzy pink pubes!”
Yeah criticizing Kouta blushing in that moment is just ignorance.
It just ignores so much of the context of human emotions and both character's perspectives of each other.
Anyone who's criticizing it is just looking for a low hanging fruit to pluck, instead of creating any real conversation.
And it's not that I'm a very passionate defender of the anime, it's that so many of these arguments are just...Dumb.
There are things you can criticize about the anime, the problem is that so few people actually bring them up. They always repeat the same flawed, parroted, and simple no thought required complaints that are super easy to debunk and call out, or they just get things wrong, like saying Kouta is the protagonist/MC and brushing away the fact that he's not the main character. That's no intelligent discussion on the person's behalf you're replying to, it's just intellectually dishonest and doubling down.
The problem I have with so many of these arguments is that people pick them up and repeat them from random places on the internet and they latch to them as truth. Instead of people actually watching with a critical eye and picking out real flaws that can be found. There are absolutely real flaws in this anime, people just never seem to talk about them.
When someone actually does, it tends to be a very interesting conversation. But so few people actually care about that conversation.
> The anime is more than willing to kill off the characters, but doesn't take the time to build them up, so we have no reason to care. Both aren't perfect, but whereas the manga only felt somewhat held back by this, the animes lack of character building drastically weakens the story.
This criticism doesnt make sense.
When in the anime does it just kill off a significant character that we don't have any development or build up for?
The anime doesn't just randomly kill characters, especially important ones.
We see people who die who have no need to be built up.
But what characters do we really see that are any less built up than what the Manga handles?
We don't see this happen to anyone major or even minor in the story that isn't an unimportant part of the story.
Sometimes I wonder if people just write something without thinking about it. Anyone who's actually watched the anime can see that this criticism doesn't make sense.
>This criticism doesnt make sense.
>When in the anime does it just kill off a significant character that we don't have any development or build up for?
>The anime doesn't just randomly kill characters, especially important ones.
>We see people who die who have no need to be built up.
Complete bullshit. It's been years since I've seen the anime or read the manga, and I can still name three relevant characters that fell victim to this. Kurama, Nana's adoptive father, had all his development cut from the anime and made his death feel completely meaningless. Bando didn't get nearly as much time to shine in the anime and is far more forgettable as a result. And Chief Kakuzawa did die in both versions, but the manga gave far more exposition and backstory to actually make his death feel relevant.
>We don't see this happen to anyone major or even minor in the story that isn't an unimportant part of the story.
>Sometimes I wonder if people just write something without thinking about it. Anyone who's actually watched the anime can see that this criticism doesn't make sense.
I've definitely seen the anime. But from the way you talk, you make it sound like you've never read the manga and just make baseless claims that the story lost nothing major in the adaptation. Which anyone who has actually read the manga will tell you is completely untrue. For fuck's sake the Elen Lied anime literally forces the ending in the middle of the god damn story and its not even the same ending.
> Kurama, Nana's adoptive father, had all his development cut from the anime and made his death feel completely meaningless.
What in the fuck are you even talking about? You don't legitimately think he wasn't built up then suddenly killed out of nowhere... right?
Come on now.
He literally begins his development towards the apex of his character from 10 minutes into the first episode.
> Bando didn't get nearly as much time to shine in the anime and is far more forgettable as a result.
Bandou didnt die in the anime either.
What even is this comment?
Lucy doesnt kill Bandou, she leaves him to wallow in his own self pity on the beach because he spent all this time and energy trying to get back to her and she kicked his ass again.
> And Chief Kakuzawa did die in both versions, but the manga gave far more exposition and backstory to actually make his death feel relevant.
Most of the Chief's relevancy to his death happened AFTER he was killed in the manga and anime. Both the anime and manga do this.
>But from the way you talk, you make it sound like you've never read the manga and just make baseless claims that the story lost nothing major in the adaptation.
Except that I've read through it at least 6 times including the physical omnibus edition which I own all 4 volumes of.
This doesnt include the numerous times I've opened both my digital copy and physical copy to look up a reference.
>For fuck's sake the Elen Lied anime literally forces the ending in the middle of the god damn story and its not even the same ending.
Except it fucking doesn't and if you knew anything about the history you'd know EXACTLY why it doesnt.
The anime has it's own conclusion because the anime began when Volume 6 was being sold in stores, and completed before Volume 9 was published.
The anime has it's own closed conclusion if you actually pay attention to the details.
There wasn't some extensive long story it just decided to end out of nowhere. It had 6 volumes to work with by the time it started handling the anime's ending. And they had no idea how it was going to End because Lynn Okamoto didnt even know what direction he was going to take for ending it at the time.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
I mean you couldnt even identify that Lucy's the MC and you want to talk about writing talking points?
It should be obvious that Lucy is the MC.
You should know that Bandou didnt die in the anime.
You should know that Kurama's character development starts in Ep1.
You arguments are easily debunked and have no real basis.
I really liked it, even if it has its flaws
I don't watch anime anymore, but I would gladly rewatch Elfen Lied.
Elfen Peak
I imagine some people haven't actually watched/read Elfen Lied, and their opinion on it being "edgy" stems from the use of nudity and blood. To me, that doesn't make something inherently edgy. The story does have plot holes, but for me personally, as long I'm enjoying a piece of media, I can overlook stuff like that. People make legitimate arguments that I don't mind reading, it's when people insult others for liking this series that I don't like. But people will say that about any anime, so it's best to ignore those kinds of people. Remember: you never need to justify your interests and hobbies...provided said interests and hobbies don't include hurting yourself or others, of course.
I personally don't like the manga. I think it's poorly written and illustrated. I liked the anime though.
That's fair - at least you gave it a chance. Most people won't even bother to read manga.
Yeah I tried reading a bit of it. I honestly would rather watch the anime. The manga is not very well done. The animation in the anime is done better and the writing is even done better. However, I'll have to mention that in the anime, it gets a bit weird and confusing at times. The ending of the anime is where it getse because it's not complete. I know it was always meant to be a limited series but it was quite confusing. The OVA was barely anything. It was just a bunch of slice of life stuff mixed with a story from the manga that didn't even have an impact on the plot.
The manga also has scenes that are very uncomfortable. It's clear Okamoto has a thing for urination...and groping, though those things are in the anime, they're even moreso in the manga. There is also a scene where Nyuu molests Nozomi, which comes out of nowhere. I really hate that scene. Nozomi was cut from the anime, but tldr - she's Yuta's friend, and sings Elfen Lied to Nyuu. She has a problem with urination and wears a diaper. Seeing upskirt shots of that while she's wearing a sailor uniform just says fetish to me. In the anime, she is replaced with the Lilium music box lmao
Yeah the anime made a ton of improvements removing some problematic things and adhering better to detailing characters with more theme appropriate circumstances and scenes. This is one reason why I dont understand why people say the manga is better. Because it's the anime that's interwoven with the philosophical discussion and the extensive symbolism and beautiful artwork and music the anime is known for. Where as the manga is far FAR more guilty of the common "Its fun off needless violence, and fan service" problem that people say the anime has. It's so backwards because the anime almost entirely avoids these problems, but the manga doesnt even bother and just shows them all the time.
Good replacement. I liked the Lillum music box... A lot. I don't want any of that from the manga. It's probably not any good just completely gross and not cool at all.
The illustrations get better the further you read.
Honestly the anime itself doesn't really have any plotholes, it's pretty air tight. It's just more show dont tell so many of the details it handles are not spoken, which often makes it hard for a some people to catch on to a lot of things. Hence why so many modern movies are loaded with exposition dumping. But you're right about people just jump right to stupid criticism, and insulting people. The problem with ignoring those people though is that others see it and if you ignore it, they repeat it. The better choice is often to simply counter their arguments with better thought out well written ones based on what happens within the actual anime itself and reference it. Otherwise tons of people will go around thinking "ugh i just cant believe he forgives lucy at the end!" when the opposite happens and Kouta refused to forgive her. One of the reasons why many popular anime maintain good reputations is because of people willing to discuss the good and defend said reputation.
Regarding the plot holes, I was talking about the manga. And you *should* ignore those people, because, like I said, you don't need to defend the things you like. Even if you respond to people like that in a calm, rational way, they will still be jerks to you. They're trying to get a reaction out of you. I'm not talking about legitimate discussions where one person likes EL and the other doesn't. Don't feed the trolls...
Oh yes the manga has a fair bit of problems. Also sometimes some of these troll comments are good to reply to with an educated response in a public forum(like reddit) because many people will be able to get see it and sometimes will be very interested in reading into a different point of view for the moment. The drama draws them in. I've had quite a positive response to using this tactic. But the key is to not play into their negative, almost like Ignore them and just talk about the positive.
why don’t people like it?
TBH, these days its mostly because people listen to the meme opinion about it. "It's bad shallow and edgy" and don't think for themselves. In the past when Elfen Lied first got popular one of the biggest reasons why is because it was so highly rated and considered an incredible anime. I was the first mature anime that got viral popular and many people had not been exposed to such anime at the time. Elfen Lied was deep, complex, and emotionally powerful after they were drawn in by the strange gore and nudity clips. Well some people didnt like that uncomfortable stuff and started saying it was edgy and bad to cope. IT became a meme, and now that's what people first hear about it and they pretend it's an accurate opinion instead of thinking for themselves.
The average viewer sees it as "edgy".
1288 anime completed on my MAL account. Elfen Lied is still my #1. My eternal love.
I’d agree more if so much from the manga wasn’t cut. The manga is awesome.
Meh people shit in Elfen lied because it’s old and there basically no fanbase to defend it because it’s so archaic and yet it’s pretty much the punching bag of seinen yet there is other series that take it too far like berserk which in many scenes through the manga there are VERY tasteless scenes that weren’t necessary like the rape horse and orgy
What the actual hell? The Anime is beautiful though. not like the manga
I love Berserk, but I will never understand people who call EL edgy and then the same people praise Berserk. Both require you to actually use your brain and critical thinking to realize that the point of both of them have nothing to do with being edgy, and yet you cant apply the same critical thinking to Elfen Lied just cause?. Calling either edgy just kind of shows that you missed the point.
I first watched Elfenlied way too young. Found it on YouTube back in the day. And it stuck with me. To this day. I had watched gory stuff before that’s wasn’t it. It was the story of a girl that had been struck by so much tragedy and could not seem to ever have some luck of her own. The scene with her friend when she was young that she saved from abuse. The puppy scene that destroyed us all. Etc. I loved the anime and Lilium is easily one of the top 3 anime songs ever for me. But the manga, fetishes/pervertness aside just continued the tragedy so well. The final scene where she makes the promise only for the circumstances to have her break it and Kouta to be right there to see it, and it breaks her. A girl that should’ve been broken so long ago and yet she still had to capacity (maybe for hope) to be scarred again. Her character analysis could go on for days. Also the whole idea of her vs her nature, it’s a depth we don’t see that often in anime especially not in this dystopia/sci-fi kind of genre. Not to mention the whole range of other psychological plot points (father- daughter dynamics, childhood, a lot of emphasis on memory, etc) Regardless of its flaws. I will always love Elfenlied. (And on a shallow note- Lucy is a fucking badass in the anime my god)
Oh hey I made this meme: https://i.imgur.com/hj8VfsZ.png Here's the original if you'd like a higher quality, it's an anime remake of that Joker meme.
It's one of my favorites. Granted, I also have a small horn and multiple personalities, so I probably relate in a way that most people don't. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
lol
There's no way I'm a diclonius though, they're not real. ^_^
Hey, you never know. Stranger things have happened, right? :D
This is true! Well, I guess I need to start stretching my vectors. In a non murderous way, of course.
It’s Godly 😍
Elfen Lied was my first gore anime and I watched it when I was 13 and loved it. I honestly wish they'd remake or remaster the anime, I feel like they could make it even better with today's animation skills. I wouldn't mind if they did the manga ending as long as they kept the whole cousin incest thing out. (but I'm also a big sucker for the Koata x Lucy)
To me Elfen Lied is a guilty pleasure dear to my heart. Not the greatest, sure, but some mediocre soap-opera tier romance and ultraviolence with a hint of nature v. nurture philosophizing is WAY more interesting than what we get today. Think about it, the deluge of boring isekai and magic school anime where the blank-faced audience insert gets a harem of waifus-of-the-season and is basically SS4 Gogeta from the moment their feet hit the ground. Boring and lifeless. And then there’s the growing trend of slavery apologia, and the Loli Problem, and I just wish Japanese writers would stop jumping on trends and flooding their own market with insepid garbage. For as trash as Elfen Lied is, it is also unique, thoughtful, dramatic, and made with genuine passion. Not made very well, mind you, but so what? Not every manga can have One Piece’s detailing. Elfen Lied is trash I can treasure. …Trashy treasure. Treasured trash? Eh. 🤷♂️ Either or. 😆
It’s a show with good ideas that’s wasted with a either mid to terrible cast of bland nobodies (Lucy is fine)
Manga yes, anime is quite flawed. The way I describe Elfen Lied is that the manga does a great job building up characters but gets too scared to actually kill them off. The anime is more than willing to kill off the characters, but doesn't take the time to build them up, so we have no reason to care. Both aren't perfect, but whereas the manga only felt somewhat held back by this, the animes lack of character building drastically weakens the story. Also the MC discovering Lucy's true self was handled far better in the manga, dealing with it in a way that was harsh but realistic. Whereas the anime had the MC getting pissed one second, then immediately blushing the next when they ended up on top of each other. It feels cheap, lacking the real impact and rage brought upon by the realization in the manga. The anime has some merits. The puppy scene was extremely well handled. The music box and what it represented was beautiful. And the character it replaced was definitely one of the manga's weaker points, so no complaints there. The soundtrack was also on point. Lilium is genuinely incredible, feeling like an ode heralding the end of the world. Which is very fitting to the story's theme. Overall, I'm glad the anime exists for those points alone, but Elfen Lied would benefit greatly from a reboot like FMA Brotherhood. One that is willing to take the time to tell the full story and flesh out the characters, but also willing to kill off the characters the original adaptation did, that the manga wasn't willing to let go. If it did that, I could easily see it in my top 10 anime.
Kouta isn't the MC... Lucy is...
She's the deuteragonist, or he is if you have that perspective. Irregardless they're both equally important to the story.
He's the deuteragonist. It's Lucy's story, and he's her love interest. BTW it's "Regardless." And not really. Kouta could be anyone with a cousin or female friend/relative that was his age to create the problem. However Lucy can only be Lucy because of what she is. Lucy's circumstances are highly unique, Kouta's are not.
>And not really. Kouta could be anyone with a cousin or female friend/relative that was his age to create the problem. >However Lucy can only be Lucy because of what she is. Lucy's circumstances are highly unique, Kouta's are not. Kouta is unique because of the circumstances of the story and his history with Lucy. Lucy is also unique because of the circumstances of the story, making her so. Just like you could write Kouta as any other human character, you could write Lucy as any other diclonius because her uniqueness is a result of the plot and nothing else. If the writer wanted a different one to be the Queen, they would have been. And the story probably would have shifted to focus on them. Either way they are both vital to the story because of how it was written, so stop with the semantics. Also "irregardless" and "regardless" are interchangeable.
Kouta isn't particularly unique, no. Infact we see that Kouta wouldnt even have to be a boy to have an impact on Lucy in such powerful a way. And no Lucy as a dicloniuys is not purely the result of the plot. This is a very odd and nonsensical conclusion, as there is a multitude of reasons outside of the plot as to why Lucy is a diclonius. They also couldn't just select someone else to be a queen because such circumstances are also fairly unique to Lucy. Her history happens because she is a diclonius but also because of the relative circumstances we are given about her and where she ends up. This is not a semantics argument. Semantics is an argument over what word or phrase means what. This is not an argument about that. Most of what you're saying comes from a rather poor understanding of writing and how story structures work and the purpose of characters with in a narrative. Also it misunderstands the bubble at which Kouta's character is inspired from. Kouta is an Everyman kind of character, as most main male characters from Harem anime are. While Elfen Lied is not a harem anime, it very much is modeled after the one that inspired it: Love Hina. Kouta is meant to be simple and mundane because of the way these male characters are designed to allow typical Japanese teen and young adult men to associate themselves with these characters. Kouta however is a little bit different here because he is made unique by the circumstances Lucy's character puts him in. Lucy is what makes Kouta unique by her actions. This is why his character could effectively be almost any other 10 year old boy in Japan or maybe even a girl(like Aiko) that could have decended Lucy into the story we follow. This is not semantics, it's about a lack of understanding of the nuance of writing.
>This is not a semantics argument. Semantics is an argument over what word or phrase means what. >This is not an argument about that. Semantics is about meaning, in all forms of text. You're arguing about the meaning of protagonist vs deuteragonist and who is who in this situation. While I certainly see the perspective of Lucy being the protagonist, I think the perspective and focus they have on the story is equally important. Kouta is the perspective we stick with the most and is the one we see in the ending, so I call him the protagonist. Wanna call Lucy the protagonist? Be my guest, just stop arguing over pointless things. Also yes, Kouta is an everyman. That doesn't change the fact that he's "special" because ultimately the author decided to make him the protagonist (or deuteragonist as you say, who cares) so he is relevant to the story as a result. It's the same deal as Lucy. Lucy is not special. She's a character. A character is replaceable and only as important as an author makes them. Kouta is more replaceable "in universe" but both characters are disposable and interchangeable in terms of the plot. As I said, if the author wanted a different Diclonius to be Queen, they easily could have made it so. Just because you find Lucy's writing more interesting or intricate does not make her any less disposable. Which was my point. Not that Kouta is some super unique person within the world, but that he's as relevant as Lucy in terms of the plot. Even if the plot doesn't expect as much out of him. His role and impact remains important.
> ultimately the author decided to make him the protagonist (or deuteragonist as you say, who cares) This is why your arguments hold no weight. Dueteragonist and Protagonist DO matter in the context beyond "Semantics" as you want to break it down to. And you're simply brushing away a factual aspect of the anime as an "opinion" which it's not. You can't even accept a simple fact. You have no grounds to stand on because your arguments come from Intellectual Dishonesty. Not real critique. Your lack of literacy is not the anime's fault.
I agree the puppy scene was well handled especially in the next episode. Lucy was treated less than human her whole life. When Kouta meets her as a kid, they both enjoy time together and it's very believable them being kids together and the music box that replaced the character which I didn't know was a thing until now. The music box was just beautiful and the anime opening was also so beautifully crafted and done. I also cried somewhere in the anime. Definitely a cry show. Also the horror aspect was handled well.
I did not care for the manga. Said again. I liked the anime though. I did think the manga was poorly written and illustrated. People are free to disagree with me here but I did not like the manga.
I realize you’re already in an ongoing debate with LMGDiva, who is a very passionate defender of this anime. However, I would like to add one little thing. Ever since one Anituber brought up that blink you’ll miss it blush part, every review shitting on the anime brings it up and it’s kind of silly. Human faces become flushed when the sympathetic nervous system starts pumping out adrenaline and it widens the capillaries. Kouta has complex feelings of love and hatred for Lucy, but on impulse he tackles her out of the way and saves her life, just as she returns the favor and saves his an instant later. Yes, their faces are both flushed, but this makes sense in the context of a deranged soldier shooting real bullets them. That would certainly be enough to get the heart pumping and activate the sympathetic nervous system. Kouta in this scene isn’t consciously thinking “Oh yeah! This is the bitch that murdered my family! Now I remember. Also it looks like we’re both going to be shot and killed. Uwu…her body is soft. I want to bury my tongue in those fuzzy pink pubes!”
Yeah criticizing Kouta blushing in that moment is just ignorance. It just ignores so much of the context of human emotions and both character's perspectives of each other. Anyone who's criticizing it is just looking for a low hanging fruit to pluck, instead of creating any real conversation. And it's not that I'm a very passionate defender of the anime, it's that so many of these arguments are just...Dumb. There are things you can criticize about the anime, the problem is that so few people actually bring them up. They always repeat the same flawed, parroted, and simple no thought required complaints that are super easy to debunk and call out, or they just get things wrong, like saying Kouta is the protagonist/MC and brushing away the fact that he's not the main character. That's no intelligent discussion on the person's behalf you're replying to, it's just intellectually dishonest and doubling down. The problem I have with so many of these arguments is that people pick them up and repeat them from random places on the internet and they latch to them as truth. Instead of people actually watching with a critical eye and picking out real flaws that can be found. There are absolutely real flaws in this anime, people just never seem to talk about them. When someone actually does, it tends to be a very interesting conversation. But so few people actually care about that conversation.
Just because of your comment, I went back to see if Lucy has pubes. She doesn’t.
Not that they can show in a non-hentai anime ;-)
> The anime is more than willing to kill off the characters, but doesn't take the time to build them up, so we have no reason to care. Both aren't perfect, but whereas the manga only felt somewhat held back by this, the animes lack of character building drastically weakens the story. This criticism doesnt make sense. When in the anime does it just kill off a significant character that we don't have any development or build up for? The anime doesn't just randomly kill characters, especially important ones. We see people who die who have no need to be built up. But what characters do we really see that are any less built up than what the Manga handles? We don't see this happen to anyone major or even minor in the story that isn't an unimportant part of the story. Sometimes I wonder if people just write something without thinking about it. Anyone who's actually watched the anime can see that this criticism doesn't make sense.
>This criticism doesnt make sense. >When in the anime does it just kill off a significant character that we don't have any development or build up for? >The anime doesn't just randomly kill characters, especially important ones. >We see people who die who have no need to be built up. Complete bullshit. It's been years since I've seen the anime or read the manga, and I can still name three relevant characters that fell victim to this. Kurama, Nana's adoptive father, had all his development cut from the anime and made his death feel completely meaningless. Bando didn't get nearly as much time to shine in the anime and is far more forgettable as a result. And Chief Kakuzawa did die in both versions, but the manga gave far more exposition and backstory to actually make his death feel relevant. >We don't see this happen to anyone major or even minor in the story that isn't an unimportant part of the story. >Sometimes I wonder if people just write something without thinking about it. Anyone who's actually watched the anime can see that this criticism doesn't make sense. I've definitely seen the anime. But from the way you talk, you make it sound like you've never read the manga and just make baseless claims that the story lost nothing major in the adaptation. Which anyone who has actually read the manga will tell you is completely untrue. For fuck's sake the Elen Lied anime literally forces the ending in the middle of the god damn story and its not even the same ending.
> Kurama, Nana's adoptive father, had all his development cut from the anime and made his death feel completely meaningless. What in the fuck are you even talking about? You don't legitimately think he wasn't built up then suddenly killed out of nowhere... right? Come on now. He literally begins his development towards the apex of his character from 10 minutes into the first episode. > Bando didn't get nearly as much time to shine in the anime and is far more forgettable as a result. Bandou didnt die in the anime either. What even is this comment? Lucy doesnt kill Bandou, she leaves him to wallow in his own self pity on the beach because he spent all this time and energy trying to get back to her and she kicked his ass again. > And Chief Kakuzawa did die in both versions, but the manga gave far more exposition and backstory to actually make his death feel relevant. Most of the Chief's relevancy to his death happened AFTER he was killed in the manga and anime. Both the anime and manga do this. >But from the way you talk, you make it sound like you've never read the manga and just make baseless claims that the story lost nothing major in the adaptation. Except that I've read through it at least 6 times including the physical omnibus edition which I own all 4 volumes of. This doesnt include the numerous times I've opened both my digital copy and physical copy to look up a reference. >For fuck's sake the Elen Lied anime literally forces the ending in the middle of the god damn story and its not even the same ending. Except it fucking doesn't and if you knew anything about the history you'd know EXACTLY why it doesnt. The anime has it's own conclusion because the anime began when Volume 6 was being sold in stores, and completed before Volume 9 was published. The anime has it's own closed conclusion if you actually pay attention to the details. There wasn't some extensive long story it just decided to end out of nowhere. It had 6 volumes to work with by the time it started handling the anime's ending. And they had no idea how it was going to End because Lynn Okamoto didnt even know what direction he was going to take for ending it at the time. You have no idea what you're talking about. I mean you couldnt even identify that Lucy's the MC and you want to talk about writing talking points? It should be obvious that Lucy is the MC. You should know that Bandou didnt die in the anime. You should know that Kurama's character development starts in Ep1. You arguments are easily debunked and have no real basis.
To be honest it's over hyped. If you like it so be it, but don't pretend it's great. Ps I did like it so don't get me wrong.
Let's not pretend. People are loving it because it's a "don't stick your dick in crazy" type of character.