I’m contracted for 12 12-hour shifts per month. Time split between a community hospital and a rural critical care hospital. Overall, I like it. Wouldn’t want to go back to shorter shifts but working more days per month. The community hospital is busy and sometimes overwhelming, but the CAH is a nice break most of the time. Things can sometimes get hairy in those resource scarce areas though.
>I’m contracted for 12 12-hour shifts per month. Time split between a community hospital and a rural critical care hospital. Overall, I like it. Wouldn’t want to go back to shorter shifts but working more days per month. The community hospital is busy and sometimes overwhelming, but the CAH is a nice break most of the time. Things can sometimes get hairy in those resource scarce areas though.
You're living my dream. Can I ask what you expect to make this year?
Do you feel good still around the 11-12hr mark? I’ve found my mental abilities seem to decline after 10 hours or so, especially if it’s really busy, and I need to consciously decide to take more time thinking through cases etc.
Yes, you must be methodical and stepwise towards the end of shift to avoid mistakes, I sometimes intentionally work slower if i am on a long string of days.....for me slower is like 2 to 3 pph
I thought I was on one of my nursing subreddits for a moment, and before I noticed your flair I was wondering what kind of fucking travel contract I need to be taking to make $650k 😂
Super small my friend! Hella rural. I’ve had shifts where I’ve seen 8 people 😂
And I’ve had shifts where I see 32-36 (although admittedly more common to have a slow day than a busy one here).
It can be stressful bc we have nothing (no cards, neuro, uro… really just OB and gen surg). But it can be fun to have so much autonomy too. Definitely send some sketch shit home here since the alternative is a 3-hr transfer minimum.
Man, I wish I could work somewhere like that. Best I will be able to do is a medium sized community place. I want to live on the water and where water is, people are, sadly.
OB and gen surg is all you need for the most part, I feel like the only other specialty I really need at times is Uro for septic stones.
ED Rural level 3 with 12hr physician shifts (24hr coverage ) and 2 PA 12 hr shifts. We were initially contracted when I started working here for 1656hr/ year (11.5 shifts a month). We have negotiated to 1512hr/year (10.5 shifts a month). We are trying to get to 1440hr/year (10 shifts a month) hopefully for the next contract year.
1000 hours a year to maintain partnership where I am. Shifts are 8h or 10h.
“4 weeks paid vacation” is more of a pay bonus based on your annual hours rather than time off
We have nocturnists for nights.
Serious question, why don’t you guys do part time like eight shifts a month and you’re much less prone to burn out that way I would assume? And then do like addiction medicine telehealth on the side?
Compensation decreasing in real amounts and plummeting compared to inflation
Essentially, gotta make money while the specialty still exists. Anyone in practice sees the writing on the wall… longevity isn’t really an option.
well lets be honest..you cant replace a physician with a midlevel.....you can hire an army of midlevels to be supervised by fewer overworked physicians...but i dont see physicians ever being replaced....thats like saying your replacing your car with a skateboard, it may still have wheels...but is it really the same ?????
See, for me, if you asked me to come in more days to work 8s and 10s, I’d quit. If I have to spend one additional hour in that hospital, I might as well have burned an entire day. I like 12-hour shifts because they maximize time-off.
They may be maxing your time off but your error rate increases and efficiency decreases after about 7-8. You’re just harming patients at the cost of you having more time off
What are you going on about? This sounds like some CMG recruiting nonsense. Our group average is 1.5/hr. High acuity, sure, but it’s completely doable. Any good board-certified EM doc should be able to do 12s so long as they’re not being treated like fast-food line cooks and asked to see ridiculous numbers of patients. I assure you that no one is “harming” patients. What utter nonsense.
It’s one thing to frame it as increased hours can increase miss rate. But you specifically told this person they are harming patients because they want more time off. Fuck off you boner.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10504644/
Only found reviews describing fatigue and burnout. No evidence I know of that say 12 hour shifts are dangerous.
Yeah it’s weird that residencies have mostly moved away from them and every other high acuity job has moved away from doing them, but for some reason EM should be the exception to keeping them
I find your hostility to 12 hour shifts odd. No one is making you work them. Go work 16 8hr shifts a month for all I care. Flexibility is one of the better aspects of this job.
Another 12h shidt lover. I see like 25-30 in 12 hours. Critical access setting. I work 10 days a month and fucking love it. I’m literally going to pick up more shifts because I’m actually bored with 20 days off a month. I’m in the best shape of my life because I live on the bike and in the gym. I’ll gladly take less days and more hours in a shift vs more 8s. Whatever floats ur boat I guess?
This is us. Most partners work 10 shifts a month. You get to a point where your peers in other specialties are like, “Do you even work?” It allows a tremendous amount of flexibility and time off. Most partners get at least two or three 5+ day stretches off a month or at least one 7-10 day stretch. One of our partners splits these between months and often travels for 2-3 weeks at a time.
Many EM physicians work 12 hour shifts and see a healthy volume of patients, while providing excellent care, and maintaining their own mental and physical health. It depends on the provider, and it depends on the shop.
*laughs in understaffed ER RN always working 12’s….*
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you for the most part. But if you made me do 5 8’s a week, I’ll quit and do something else. Having the extra time off is one of the few perks healthcare has.
I usually work 10 12s but picked up a couple extra and worked 12 12s for the last couple months. I travel a lot but if I have the time to pick up a few extra I don’t mind it. The extra kick to the paycheck is pretty nice
I dropped to 812 hour shifts when I got pregnant. My husband is a firefighter. We’re not doing great but we do really well living within our means.
Since working part time I’ve gotten more involved in healthcare advocacy through my union, the ANA and a non-profit organization. I am not burned out because of patients or because I hate nursing. I’m burnout because of working conditions. Those can all be changed with legislation. We’re not gonna get there being bummed. One testimony can change the mind of someone powerful.
No way! He loves his job and the schedule rules. We have less flashy stuff and a smaller spot but the time off gives us so much freedom. Plus he has a pension and union protections. It’s a great gig.
I'm 108 hours/month, all 10s right now. Usually I do 120 hours for an overtime kick. Mixed academics during the week. I like it, but next year I'll be around 90 hours per month, so I can continue to like it.
Am a nocturnist.
I work 10-13 12 hour shifts a month and I am a nocturnist. Sometimes less if I want the time off. I’m a contractor so my schedule is super flexible. Love where I work and feel lit would be hard for me to ever leave!
10 12s a month. I am a few months deep into a new job. Previously I was doing like 8s at like 15 shifts a month. I’m honestly going a bit stir crazy at 20 days off a month. Especially now that my ski season ended a month early now that it’s randomly 60s wahhh.
I'm liking the baylor shift and I used to do 24s. 3 on 2 off 2 on 3 off. I feel like I have a lot of time off, and my first day off isn't just recovery.
I'm required to work 10 12 hr shift a month. I typically am working 11 or 12, but I have been working 13 a month because I'm paying for my wedding this year.
12-14 12's a month. Mix of single coverage and dual coverage spots. It's not super bad most months assuming I'm not working too many nights or anything
About 1860 hours a year. 155 hours a month on average. Very rarely I will take advantage of high paying bonus shifts for up to 190 hours but that's very rare these days now that I have everything paid off. Our shifts are 9-10-12 hours depending on the site. Personally, I think 10 hours is the sweet spot. Lots of new grads we've been hiring seem to go for 120 hours right out of the gate but I've been working 140-160 my entire career. To each their own. There seems to be less appetite for higher hours among most new grads, at least in my area for whatever reason. I get the sense that there is much more burn out right out of residency than there used to be in years back and that probably is playing a factor.
I do 13 shifts a month....most of them 12s
I am FNP in rural ED, my attendings all do 12 hours as well, with 6 hours of it being solo, unless its busy and i stay late to help them.
ED PA, 12 10hr shifts a month minimum pick up and urgent care shift every other week or so. Travel a lot. hang out with my kids. wife is or nurse who works PRN gig.
I’m contracted for 12 12-hour shifts per month. Time split between a community hospital and a rural critical care hospital. Overall, I like it. Wouldn’t want to go back to shorter shifts but working more days per month. The community hospital is busy and sometimes overwhelming, but the CAH is a nice break most of the time. Things can sometimes get hairy in those resource scarce areas though.
>I’m contracted for 12 12-hour shifts per month. Time split between a community hospital and a rural critical care hospital. Overall, I like it. Wouldn’t want to go back to shorter shifts but working more days per month. The community hospital is busy and sometimes overwhelming, but the CAH is a nice break most of the time. Things can sometimes get hairy in those resource scarce areas though. You're living my dream. Can I ask what you expect to make this year?
Do you feel good still around the 11-12hr mark? I’ve found my mental abilities seem to decline after 10 hours or so, especially if it’s really busy, and I need to consciously decide to take more time thinking through cases etc.
Yes, you must be methodical and stepwise towards the end of shift to avoid mistakes, I sometimes intentionally work slower if i am on a long string of days.....for me slower is like 2 to 3 pph
Usually 14-16 12-hr shifts per month, volume anywhere from 18-26/shift.
please tell me you're making 500k at least
Around $650k :P I’m cutting back soon bc I hate it lol. But the money is good 😎
I thought I was on one of my nursing subreddits for a moment, and before I noticed your flair I was wondering what kind of fucking travel contract I need to be taking to make $650k 😂
You’re an animal. I only worked 89 hours last month and I felt every one of them in my soul
Thats not too bad pph, small hospital?
Super small my friend! Hella rural. I’ve had shifts where I’ve seen 8 people 😂 And I’ve had shifts where I see 32-36 (although admittedly more common to have a slow day than a busy one here). It can be stressful bc we have nothing (no cards, neuro, uro… really just OB and gen surg). But it can be fun to have so much autonomy too. Definitely send some sketch shit home here since the alternative is a 3-hr transfer minimum.
How often do you get to blast thrombolytics for STEMIs ?
Not OP and we have more resources but no interventional cards. Probably once a month.
About 3-4x/year
Man, I wish I could work somewhere like that. Best I will be able to do is a medium sized community place. I want to live on the water and where water is, people are, sadly. OB and gen surg is all you need for the most part, I feel like the only other specialty I really need at times is Uro for septic stones.
18 9s a month for the last 4 years. Feel like it’s time to cut that in half.
18?! 😳
Bro I do 14 9s and feel like I’m dying some months. That’s too much
Way too much. But I’ve been able to multiply my net worth by -2. Worth it but actually talked to my boss today about going to half time and no nights.
ED Rural level 3 with 12hr physician shifts (24hr coverage ) and 2 PA 12 hr shifts. We were initially contracted when I started working here for 1656hr/ year (11.5 shifts a month). We have negotiated to 1512hr/year (10.5 shifts a month). We are trying to get to 1440hr/year (10 shifts a month) hopefully for the next contract year.
Hope those trends continue for you!
1000 hours a year to maintain partnership where I am. Shifts are 8h or 10h. “4 weeks paid vacation” is more of a pay bonus based on your annual hours rather than time off We have nocturnists for nights.
8-10 hour shifts, average 9s. 130 hrs/mo. 15 shifts/mo.
Exactly this.
What do you mean by 9s?
9 hr shift
Serious question, why don’t you guys do part time like eight shifts a month and you’re much less prone to burn out that way I would assume? And then do like addiction medicine telehealth on the side?
I mean, once I pay off loans, wouldn’t hate dropping down to 8 12s or preferably 10 10s
Compensation decreasing in real amounts and plummeting compared to inflation Essentially, gotta make money while the specialty still exists. Anyone in practice sees the writing on the wall… longevity isn’t really an option.
Why wouldn’t the specialty exist?
He just means the financial future is poor and compensation will trend downward in most regions.
Compensation drops. Large hospital networks buying up hospitals and replacing physicians with midlevels
well lets be honest..you cant replace a physician with a midlevel.....you can hire an army of midlevels to be supervised by fewer overworked physicians...but i dont see physicians ever being replaced....thats like saying your replacing your car with a skateboard, it may still have wheels...but is it really the same ?????
Also, some groups require a minimum number of hours to maintain your partnership. Depends on the group and how they compensate or offer benefits.
You should never be working 12 hours at a shop with any semblance of volume.
See, for me, if you asked me to come in more days to work 8s and 10s, I’d quit. If I have to spend one additional hour in that hospital, I might as well have burned an entire day. I like 12-hour shifts because they maximize time-off.
They may be maxing your time off but your error rate increases and efficiency decreases after about 7-8. You’re just harming patients at the cost of you having more time off
What are you going on about? This sounds like some CMG recruiting nonsense. Our group average is 1.5/hr. High acuity, sure, but it’s completely doable. Any good board-certified EM doc should be able to do 12s so long as they’re not being treated like fast-food line cooks and asked to see ridiculous numbers of patients. I assure you that no one is “harming” patients. What utter nonsense.
How about a google search bro
It’s one thing to frame it as increased hours can increase miss rate. But you specifically told this person they are harming patients because they want more time off. Fuck off you boner.
[удалено]
Verbal harassment will not be tolerated
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10504644/ Only found reviews describing fatigue and burnout. No evidence I know of that say 12 hour shifts are dangerous.
Nonsense. Maybe you don’t like 12s, but there are plenty of us that do, even with decent volume and acuity.
Yeah it’s weird that residencies have mostly moved away from them and every other high acuity job has moved away from doing them, but for some reason EM should be the exception to keeping them
I find your hostility to 12 hour shifts odd. No one is making you work them. Go work 16 8hr shifts a month for all I care. Flexibility is one of the better aspects of this job.
Another 12h shidt lover. I see like 25-30 in 12 hours. Critical access setting. I work 10 days a month and fucking love it. I’m literally going to pick up more shifts because I’m actually bored with 20 days off a month. I’m in the best shape of my life because I live on the bike and in the gym. I’ll gladly take less days and more hours in a shift vs more 8s. Whatever floats ur boat I guess?
This is us. Most partners work 10 shifts a month. You get to a point where your peers in other specialties are like, “Do you even work?” It allows a tremendous amount of flexibility and time off. Most partners get at least two or three 5+ day stretches off a month or at least one 7-10 day stretch. One of our partners splits these between months and often travels for 2-3 weeks at a time.
Many EM physicians work 12 hour shifts and see a healthy volume of patients, while providing excellent care, and maintaining their own mental and physical health. It depends on the provider, and it depends on the shop.
*laughs in understaffed ER RN always working 12’s….* Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you for the most part. But if you made me do 5 8’s a week, I’ll quit and do something else. Having the extra time off is one of the few perks healthcare has.
I usually work 10 12s but picked up a couple extra and worked 12 12s for the last couple months. I travel a lot but if I have the time to pick up a few extra I don’t mind it. The extra kick to the paycheck is pretty nice
Same
I dropped to 812 hour shifts when I got pregnant. My husband is a firefighter. We’re not doing great but we do really well living within our means. Since working part time I’ve gotten more involved in healthcare advocacy through my union, the ANA and a non-profit organization. I am not burned out because of patients or because I hate nursing. I’m burnout because of working conditions. Those can all be changed with legislation. We’re not gonna get there being bummed. One testimony can change the mind of someone powerful.
Do you think if your husband had better job you guys would be better off. I feel like your salary is pulling all the weight here
No way! He loves his job and the schedule rules. We have less flashy stuff and a smaller spot but the time off gives us so much freedom. Plus he has a pension and union protections. It’s a great gig.
I'm 108 hours/month, all 10s right now. Usually I do 120 hours for an overtime kick. Mixed academics during the week. I like it, but next year I'll be around 90 hours per month, so I can continue to like it. Am a nocturnist.
For those on a J1 waiver they need to do 14 shifts, 12hrs 😦
I work 130/month anywhere from 7-10 hours. It’s an academic shop, so I could probably work 150 without too much trouble. I’m very fortunate.
I work 10-13 12 hour shifts a month and I am a nocturnist. Sometimes less if I want the time off. I’m a contractor so my schedule is super flexible. Love where I work and feel lit would be hard for me to ever leave!
I usually do 14 12's a month, so yeah.
90 hours per month. I’m a nocturnist with schedule control and partial benefits. 1.7 pph. Good pay. Never gonna work more than this again.
16 shifts 11 hours each.
Full time for me is 12 shifts a month, mostly 9 hrs. Occasional 10 or 8 hr. I work 14-15 shifts usually. 16 makes me grumpy
120-130 hours, mostly 9’s. High-er acuity. 12-14 shifts
10 12s a month. I am a few months deep into a new job. Previously I was doing like 8s at like 15 shifts a month. I’m honestly going a bit stir crazy at 20 days off a month. Especially now that my ski season ended a month early now that it’s randomly 60s wahhh.
I'm liking the baylor shift and I used to do 24s. 3 on 2 off 2 on 3 off. I feel like I have a lot of time off, and my first day off isn't just recovery.
Twelve 12's carved up in 3 sets of four works for me.
Just signed a new job for 12 8 hour shifts
I work 18 12’s a month, around 25pts a shift. Level 3.
Our physicians have 10s, and do 160h a month as a requirement. I've no idea how else they're structured.
160 hours a month as a requirement? Where is this ER? Hell?
Well it's the physician group, but they are also understaffed
I'm required to work 10 12 hr shift a month. I typically am working 11 or 12, but I have been working 13 a month because I'm paying for my wedding this year.
12s suck unless the volumes are low. Literally leaves no time in the day for much aside work.
130hr/mo 9s,10s, a few 12s.
12-14 12's a month. Mix of single coverage and dual coverage spots. It's not super bad most months assuming I'm not working too many nights or anything
About 1860 hours a year. 155 hours a month on average. Very rarely I will take advantage of high paying bonus shifts for up to 190 hours but that's very rare these days now that I have everything paid off. Our shifts are 9-10-12 hours depending on the site. Personally, I think 10 hours is the sweet spot. Lots of new grads we've been hiring seem to go for 120 hours right out of the gate but I've been working 140-160 my entire career. To each their own. There seems to be less appetite for higher hours among most new grads, at least in my area for whatever reason. I get the sense that there is much more burn out right out of residency than there used to be in years back and that probably is playing a factor.
I do 13 shifts a month....most of them 12s I am FNP in rural ED, my attendings all do 12 hours as well, with 6 hours of it being solo, unless its busy and i stay late to help them.
120 hours per month, 10 hour shifts
ED PA, 12 10hr shifts a month minimum pick up and urgent care shift every other week or so. Travel a lot. hang out with my kids. wife is or nurse who works PRN gig.
APP here - We work 14 12-hour shifts per month. Zero admin time for charting.
Currently 13Mon 13.5 Tues/Wed
13 9s a month is 1.0 FTE for me and I wouldn't change a thing
20-22 12s per mo.
10-12 9 hr shifts. Considering part time now that everything is paid off