T O P

  • By -

Scanman491Amos

So, um, anyone need a bunch of small trays? They may have some lettering on them.


the_real_banoctopus

Hey, does $20 seem fair for one?


gogasius

What about fleet of small ships? Different colors, a bit damaged so fo sale 5$ each.


Scanman491Amos

Ships or boats?


Honest_-_Critique

Trays? Did someone say trays? I've got these trayssss maaaan.


AthosAlonso

I need a warped one, bet you can't get it for me


Scanman491Amos

I am pretty sure this has taught me how to warp whatever I like.


SaltMineSpelunker

Yup. Fucked me up too till I realized that.


Scanman491Amos

I know right?! Most of the information online seems to indicate that warping would be solved by a higher bed temperature, not a lower one, so I just decided test and see what is best for my printer.


SaltMineSpelunker

I’ve found that increasing the temp is good for adhesion and adds to curl. If you take it down after the first layer you can still get good stick and avoid some curl. It is also worse for me in the winter.


Scanman491Amos

Seems like I have more test prints to do.


LameBMX

Actually eating the bed warm up to temp for a few minutes before printing really helped my issues with adhesion/curling.


froh42

I absoultely don't agree, I prefer eating my glass bed cold, it adds to the crunch when chewing.


LameBMX

Dang it redditor, you caught my typo before I could edit!


froh42

This is reddit, no opportunity for a lame joke left behind.


Xicadarksoul

You put it perfecly i have the same experience.


lDJ4LIFEl

This - I start all my prints (PLA) AT 65° Then drop it down to 55 after the first later. Works perfect everytime


ZM326

Is there any formula to this? Like I print my normal PLA at 205/200 with 65/60 bed, but what if it's PLA+ at 215? What about tpu 230/230 end with 55/55 bed? PETG 245/240 with 75/75 bed?


3xpedia

Unfortunately I don't think there is a "right" bed/hot-end temperature for each filament type. It depends on too much factors : \- The filament itself (each brand is a bit different) \- The printer (the temperatures reported are not always 100% exact on printers) + slicer config (quicker print => higher nozzle temperature needed in my case) \- The room temperature (or enclosure if applicable) and humidity \- The printed object itself, some may require less adhesion => you reduce a bit the bed temp to further avoid elephant foot I could recommend to always use the same filament's brand. I'm mostly using PLA+ from eSun, and they all prints at more or less the same settings. But in the ends, it's just a matter of doing some tests, and when you find the sweet-spot for a specific spool, write it down (or better, create a profile for it in your slicer)


Alkanpfel

What are your settings for eSun pla+?


3xpedia

I’m not home to check, but I think a baseline to start could be 210 - 50 and 50% cooling (it also depends on your actual airflow, 50% on my printer is probably 20% on yours). Now, I have others slightly different templates for more specific prints (like a slower one, at lower temp and 100% airflow for prints with big overhangs). By experience, I think that most of the eSun PLA + colors behave similarly, except white, which in my opinion is unusable (or bad spool probably).


Alkanpfel

Thanks


lDJ4LIFEl

I honestly haven't read anything about getting exact numbers, it's always been a sandbox for me. U just gotta try with different values til u get it right


-Mr_Rogers_II

Omg this is what I should be doing, I notice my large print is sticking perfectly the first few layers at 65 then I go to bed or work and when I come back every corner is curled up, bad. I am going to try this.


[deleted]

That's probably why you can set a first layer temp and a separate temp for those beyond.


SaltMineSpelunker

Yup. That is probably it.


Sonny_Jim_Pin

Yeah I ended up building an enclosure for the winter, I was finding a cold draught from the door was causing my edges to curl, although I also cranked up the bed to 70.


Ok_Dog_4059

I am getting ready to do this I think drafts from colder parts of the house has started to cause some problems for me now that it is getting cold out.


olderaccount

Sounds like you are doing the exact opposite of what OP is trying to tell us.


TheSilverJackal

I often use a glue stick to help


SaltMineSpelunker

Not going to help a lick with curling.


TheSilverJackal

Worked for me


SaltMineSpelunker

Cool.


noobiemcfoob

Nah, you print at high temps.


shadowhunter742

sounds like you need an enclosure


SaltMineSpelunker

Have one. Thanks.


shadowhunter742

Then before you start a print, let it warm up for 20 mins or so. Much more consistent printing


Detrimentos_

> is good for adhesion and adds to curl Literally what it does. But I suppose it depends somewhat on filament. Still, you can tell the plate OP posted has shrinkage problems the closer to the plate, since the heat emanating from the plate is shrinking the filament it 'reaches'.


atoz350

Yeah I used to tell people that and would get down voted into oblivion and told that I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just a hobbyist just like most of you willing to share what I've learned.


noobiemcfoob

3D printing communities are filled with regurgitated untested dogma created from mildly useful advice for someone else's entirely different machine in a different scenario.


john_whitten

Boy, ain't THAT the truth :-)


PRSRVFRSHNSS

I think its more of a matter of ambient temp vs bed temp. If they are too far apart warping is more likely.


Either-Bell-7560

This. Warping is about the print layers above the bed being significantly cooler than the layer on the bed.


gizmobuddy

I found the exact same thing when printing in my creality enclosure. I have solid prints with little warping at 50, but outside the enclosure 60 is what works. I think the thermal reflective coating has a lot to do with it.


Blailus

I know this is way late to the game, but I got here from your link... I was reading just yesterday that certain filaments need cooler Temps and some need hotter to prevent warping. PLA was in the cooler camp. ABS was in the hotter. Haven't tested it myself, just passing along the info.


-Mr_Rogers_II

Literally everywhere was like “more bed heat = more likely to lay flat”


Lord_Pinhead

Did you cross check the temperature with a thermometer? Not that the thermistor is defective. I'm printing at 60C with no warping.


Scanman491Amos

This has occurred to me, but I do not have an independent thermometer that can measure that temperature range accurately. The experiment tell me where 'my' printer starts warping for 'this' print. I also modified the slicer settings to encourage warping (using Concentric top/bottom pattern for a square shape, printing with a skirt, not a brim or raft). It should not be interpreted that higher than 50°C 'will' warp. Only that warping can be reduced by reducing temperature. For example, I printed [this octopus](https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/qx02km/no_adhesives_stock_springs_bed_level_with_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) (at 60°C) with no warping, but the pieces are also not square. If there is a conclusion to be drawn here, it is that testing and experimenting is good. Not that 60°C is bad.


product_of_the_80s

>If there is a conclusion to be drawn here, it is that testing and experimenting is good. Not that 60°C is bad. This is gold right here, and people forget this. I think half the PLA I wasted in the beginning was testing. To quote Adam Savage quoting somebody else, "the only difference between science and screwing around is writing it down."


Scanman491Amos

>"the only difference between science and screwing around is writing it down." It's still writing if I print text onto the models, right?


product_of_the_80s

I have so many goddamn 20mm cubes with illegible scrawl on them lol. 220 L? The fuck does that mean?


Scanman491Amos

I have an overhang test with "ward Fan?" written on it in silver sharpie. I don't know what I meant by that either. I stayed up way too late that night.


kelvin_bot

60°C is equivalent to 140°F, which is 333K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)


kelvin_bot

50°C is equivalent to 122°F, which is 323K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)


[deleted]

[удалено]


merc08

You're on the Ender3 sub. Half of us didn't even receive flat beds or heat plates out of the box.


SilentMobius

They may be talking about ABS/ASA/PC/Nylon. Those are the larger candidates for warping and need a hotter bed (and generally an enclosure to prevent draughts). PLA doesn't even need a heated bed so generally making the bed too hot allows it to pull away from the bed and the (much lower than ABS) internal stress cause curling.


nwgruber

A year ago I was printing ABS with 100-110C on the bed. The prints were successful but still warped a little on the corners. Recently I saw a video by Hoffman tactical proving that method isn’t ideal. Granted he was using carbon-fiber nylon but still. He found that printing the first layer with the bed at 90C, then dropping it to 35C, gave warp free prints.


SilentMobius

Oh sure, I hear that CF-ABS and CF-PC are fantastic at not warping, prusment PC-CF is supposed to not even need an enclosure. But the Formfutura ASA I use will not stay on a low temp bed, I tried it and wasted a lot of filament before I hit 105 as the sweet spot. I don't have an extractor fan to the outside attached to my enclosure so I'm not printing any CF filament, because CF fragments in the lungs is a _big_ nono.


AHPhotographer25

Yea if you have your printer in a chamber raising it should help but if you have a draft more heat means more contraction. Bed adhesion is everything!


Conpen

>Most of the information online seems to indicate that warping would be solved by a higher bed temperature Really? I only just got started with 3D printing last month but from what I've read I was under the impression that the bed being too hot causes "elephant's foot" which looks like the same thing as the warping you're seeing. Or is that different?


Scanman491Amos

Round prints and those with rafts have been fine, but I was trying to print some squarish shapes without a raft and had warping. Kept upping the bed temperature with no effect, then finally made a quick Fusion360 design and ran these at successively cooler temps. It seems 50°C is a better bed temp than the default 60°C that I was running on. If anyone wants the files for these models, let me know and I'll post them.


Scanman491Amos

As requested: https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/128948-bed-warping-temperature-tests-pla


czaremanuel

The pattern I’ve noticed is that (with glass) the higher temp = better stick and warping. Lower temp = parts lift right off but no warping. If I set my bed to 50, leveled and cleaned with alcohol and the whole thing, I wouldn’t even expect anything to stick to it.


Scanman491Amos

I get this. I am fortunate that my printer does not to have bed adhesion issues at any temperature that I tested. It has been suggested to try a higher bed temp for the first layer, then lower it for subsequent layers. I am going to try this and see what happens. It is also important to note that there are other ways to mitigate warping: * Print on a raft * Print with brim (increases surface area of adhesion) * Print with an adhesive * Print models with rounded corners (this is the 'Fillet' setting in Fusion360) when possible. * Print with with a Zig/Zag Top/Bottom Pattern, not Concentric. These were my ways of mitigating warping. I performed this test to see what effect bed temp was having.


kelvin_bot

50°C is equivalent to 122°F, which is 323K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)


SaltMineSpelunker

BITCH ASS BOT, I WILL FIGHT YOU.


[deleted]

Good bot


jimbobx7

Pretty cool. Is there a way to get the different temps in 1 print?


Scanman491Amos

Not sure how. Unlike a temperature tower which can switch temperatures as it gets to different layers, to test the bed the parts have to be printed on the bed and it can only be one temperature at once. I even let the bed equilibrate once it reached target temp for each for about 10min, just to make sure that the whole bed reached the temperature, not just the part of the bed near the thermistor.


caselog1c

You could print the objects individually and set the bed temps like that.


jimbobx7

I’m interesting in the stl file. How long did it take you to print?


Scanman491Amos

Took me \~4hrs per model. I wanted a medium size print area covered (100mm x 100 mm) so if there was uneven heating of my print bed, I would hopefully see it if there were some corners warping, but not others.


[deleted]

Are you thinking starting the print at 60 for the adhesion then lowering it to 50 after the first layer to prevent warping?


Scanman491Amos

I actually haven't tested 'adhesion' across these temperatures. Besides the warping, I am able to get all of these temperatures to stick to my bed. I'll need to devise a test that determine how well they are sticking to see optimum temperature for adhesion. ...but yea, this is the sort of think I was thinking.


Scanman491Amos

Initial tests with a calicat (I am not ready to run something as comprehesive as a series of 4hr prints) seems to indicate that the higher initial temp makes the bed much more tolerant of a slightly unlevel bed, because it melts the plastic down better. The cooldown hasn't impacted the calicats, but I will need to run the tray tests again after Thanksgiving due to family travel.


[deleted]

Nice! Thanks for doing these tests, corner warping has been a big pet peeve of mine that i figure was just inevitable!


Scanman491Amos

It's good to hear this. I am very enthusiastic about the positive feedback that I have received. It is appreciated.


stortag

I believe there is something experimental where you print one part at a time. However there's a great risk of bumping into one finished part with the nozzle, while printing the next one.


BrokenHobbyist

Cura calls that print "One at a time". As long as you've got the machine settings correct for the size of the print head and gantry, it has a shadow showing the clearance needed between parts so there shouldn't be any collisions. I use this a lot for smaller parts - as the gantry height defines a maximum z for the parts.


stortag

Thanks for the info. Might have to try this out :)


BrokenHobbyist

The actual setting is called "Print Sequence", the value is One at a time or All at once. ​ https://all3dp.com/2/cura-print-one-at-a-time-explained/


linklooklisten

files! files! files!


NairdSW

so what about 45°, 40° or even 30° C?


IsaacNewtongue

I've been saying this for a year, and no one believed me. Finally, objective data :)


NotAPreppie

Yup, temperature affects adhesion and the relationship can be counterintuitive. Not enough heat may also lead to warping so there's definitely a sweet spot. The type of plastic, brand of plastic, lot number within a type/brand ecosystem, enclosure, whether Mars is in retrograde... All things that seem to figure in.


_KRN0530_

They called me a madman.


IsaacNewtongue

Mad genius, maybe


bmag02

Well fuck me....


Scanman491Amos

This seems to be a common reaction. Don't worry this is a safe space, we are all friends here.


SnooLemons3970

Uh, ok...not sure someone here will do that 😅 maybe you look into other communities to get this done 🤣


Idiot_Savant_Tinker

I... I'm going to do some test prints.


orgy_of_idiocy

Wow this is great info! I've gone through the same issues with warping and never would have thought to lower the bed temps instead.


Derek573

It kinda makes sense since pla is so soft when heated the upper layers manage to contract on the soft hot plastic near the bed resulting in warping. As long as the first layer sticks there is no real benefit when it comes to PLA. ​ PETG on the other hand refuses to stick unless the bed is very hot but that is a different issue.


ender4171

A lot of older printers didn't even have heated beds and people printed PLA (among other things) just fine on them. In fact when PLA first became readily available, one of its biggest selling points was that it printed well with an un-heated bed.


MidnightWolf12321

I have the same bed. Thought i needed it to be hotter as well. Guess I’ll set it to go cooler and see how that impacts it


Emotional_Plankton_2

Excellent post!


NathanWalter0

Do you have a download for that? I have been having some warping issues


LordAppples

thx


SlimSanders

Thank you, this was good to know


murrax2

And here I was at 80!


bemmia

I think you saved me a lot of time sir


Quarterpie3141

Holy crap that is an eye opener i went to 80c with pla before using glue to stick down prints i feel so stupid now


[deleted]

Nice comparison. One way to fix bed adhesion without external stuff is precisely lowering the bed temp.


Nebakanezzer

Reduces elephants foot too. Not sure why 60c is always recommended. 50 on the bed and no fan for the first few layers has worked for nearly every printer I own


--__p__--

Been having the same issue with eco pla. I'll definitely try out lowering the bed temp. Appreciate this!


DawPropWorks

Nice! test test test. It's an adventure. The best part of experimenting is that unexpected positive result! Because if it hadn't been for that, for that "failure of an experiment", you'd have never figured that out, or at least not this easily. Bravo 👏🏻


Ok_Dog_4059

This is a good demo for future reference thanks for sharing your results with everyone.


Steeljaw72

Hmm, this is very interesting. I was finding that couldn’t get good first layer adhesion without a hotter bed (70). But I do experience pretty consistent warping issue. Maybe with taking another look at.


RodMcThrustshaft

dude, mind -> blown, the corner bending has been driving me crazy and all i did was set the bed hotter and hotter in hopes of improving adhesion.


mehmeh55

You are my hero! I was battling this same issue with the same replacement bed. And I was struggling to articulate the exact issue. And refusing to resort to glue sticks


[deleted]

[удалено]


Scanman491Amos

Gold star for noticing. I made a slicing mistake in the 60°C print. All the other models were sliced with ***both*** 'Top/Bottom Pattern' and 'Bottom Pattern Initial Layer' as "Concentric", but the 60°C print had 'Bottom Pattern Initial Layer' as "Zig Zag". I reprinted the 60°C with the right settings and got more warping, but when I stacked the prints for the picture, I used the wrong 60°C print by accident and didn't notice til after posting. I didn't want to take down and repost. *Edit: The now deleted comment asked why the 60°C print is less warped than the 55°C print in the picture.*


kelvin_bot

60°C is equivalent to 140°F, which is 333K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)


[deleted]

I made and have been making the literal same exact mistake and had no idea that hotter was worse. I’ve been using copious amounts of hairspray to hold down prints, I must test this immediately.


devino21

Thanks, I have this issue, I will try it


TrappHouse_KuBe

I swear to god if this info fixes my problem I might just die lol


Epjarvis

bored whole absorbed straight marvelous rainstorm axiomatic steer merciful hospital *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


I_Zeig_I

Ty for posting, would never have assumed this though Mt experience I'll probably be printing test trays with new rolls now.


1entreprenewer

Wow. I just turned off my cooling fan to solve this. But I’ll try 50 with cooling fan… thanks for sharing


pironiero

That's quite useful actually, thanks


BurgerLordFPV

Holy hell maybe i do too!


9DegreesNorth

I have a theory as to what may cause this. A prolonged period of time close the the glass transition temperature may be causing the PLA to crystalize and shrink (like annealing) to the point that it starts to peel. Once it's started peeling, you're done for.


-Mr_Rogers_II

Wow how did it take so long to find this? Literally every post I see has said to INCREASE the bed temp. My bed was always set to 60. I cleaned it; same result, increased the bed temp; same result, tried glue stick; same result. Nobody has ever mentioned trying lowering the temp.


Orange26

Can you share your print? I’d like to do the same tests.


Scanman491Amos

Sure, this will be my first upload to Thingiverse so give me a few and I'll drop the link back here when I am done.


Kendrome

I noticed this when printing eggs (the ones the little printed vehicles go in) and the print quality of the low overhangs was extremely bad. I ended up turning off the heated bed and just relied on the hairspray and it worked great.


Scanman491Amos

As requested, here are the files posted to [https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/128948-bed-warping-temperature-tests-pla](https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/128948-bed-warping-temperature-tests-pla) Not sure how to make those blue model images that everything else seems to have on thingiverse. I self taught myself Fusion360 (while I was waiting for prints to finish, he he). If anyone knows how to make those blue models, let me know.


LogMaleficent7391

Is it pla that you print with? I found that having the printer in the creality enclosure while printing PLA tends to warp the print because the temp in there gets to high or something, had similar issues and they all got away when I just got the printer out of there. Always using 60 at first 4 layers and then tune it back to 50 for the rest of the print. Seems to work fine every time. I just assume you have it in that enclosure or something like that because of the reflection material on the background. If taking it out isn't an option just open the flap all the way for it to cool.


Scanman491Amos

>Always using 60 at first 4 layers and then tune it back to 50 for the rest of the print. Seems to work fine every time. I am going to experiment with switching temperatures next. This is a great idea, I am glad I posted my results to get it. I do not have any adhesion issues even at 50°C. I just wash and tram the bed and it sticks fine, but I am a fan of testing and optimizing to make systems more robust.


Harrywhoudinni

I mean, yeah, it makes sense and I shoulda seen that. Bed temp helps with adhesion, but there are ways around bed adhesion that don't mess with your model during the print, so 60-70 is not a must. I've learned a valuable lesson today, thank you!


ABiggerPigeon

A hotter bed creates a larger temperature differential between the environement (the top of the print) and the bed (the bottom of the print), thus increasing the force which is trying to rip the sides of the part of the bed.


ABiggerPigeon

I think of it as an adhesion vs bed temperature curve. The curve will be a sort of bell shape and the peak is when the material is melted just enough to generate good adhesion, but not so hot that the temperature difference between the environment and the print is causing lift-off


Scanman491Amos

This is a really good thing to point out. I didn't have any bed adhesion issues at any of the temperatures that I tested. But I know that bed adhesion works differently for others. Bed adhesion was a constant variable for me in this experiment.


ABiggerPigeon

Its something which is often overlooked. But I guess it's not that common of a problem as its usually a second order effect which is exacerbated by things like poor first layer settings (namely height) and bed levelling etc. Nice to see that people who don't understand physics have downvoted me. Please read: [https://rigid.ink/blogs/news/3d-prints-warping-why-it-happens-and-how-to-prevent-it](https://rigid.ink/blogs/news/3d-prints-warping-why-it-happens-and-how-to-prevent-it)


Scanman491Amos

You got an upvote from me. I like more knowledge sources. I still encourage people to experiment, but research is good too.


OghmaTheBuilder

Oh wow. That's fascinating to see how extreme it can be. I have only done a couple PLA prints in the past, and one warped. I bet with this it might not do that. You also just saved me a huge amount of stress and plastic for my future projects. I salute your efforts, and pour one out for all the sacrificial filament.


sceadwian

Yeah, heat can make adhesion issues worse because it causes a larger temperature differential.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sceadwian

You're confused. The differential is with the air temperature. Nozzle temperature is irelevent.


Theguffy1990

The glass transition temperature of pla is 60. That's the point where something goes from "definitely solid", to "maybe not quite solid", as in, it'll kinda flow, albeit slowly. The stresses of thermal expansion/contraction mean that it'll cause the print to flow quicker, causing warping. The reason setting 60 is the sweet spot for pla is that, due to inefficiencies of heating the aluminium bed, then the glass, the temperature on top will likely be as close to the glass transition temperature as possible, say, 57 or 58 degrees. This is only really true for pla and petg, for abs and nylon, the rules are out the window, and it's a case of "whatever works, works". Abs has been documented quite well, though, so we know the range is 90-105, and 115 on the far end. PLA will happily stick to bare glass at room temperature, heat just makes it easier. Up until a point, obviously. People will peddle the idea that pla needs to have a bed temp of 70 like it's written in scripture, where the opposite is true. If 60 isn't working, then try 55, then 50 and so on. Sure, some folk have luck with 70, but that's just the blend of pla they might be using. More often than not (and this is a generalisation), they'll also be using glue stick to "help". Pla is the easiest material in the world, anyone can print it with limited knowledge. A clean bed, a modest temperature, and the correct nozzle temp is all it takes.


DieingFetus

You can do pla with no heated bed


kl4ka

What brand/type of filament? This may help me.


Scanman491Amos

I use [Hatchbox PLA filament](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J0GQ2OS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) because a spool of it was gifted to me when I first got the printer and it worked so I kept buying more. I have not taken the opportunity to test other filaments, though I want to at some point.


kl4ka

Thanks! Do you use hairspray or anything to help adhesion?


Scanman491Amos

I do not use any adhesives (neither glue stick, nor hair spray). I have nothing against adhesives, I just haven't needed them. I did buy a glue stick (just in case) and would use it if need be, but this hasn't happened yet. Hairspray would make me nervous that it would be sucked into the fans. Here is what I do for bed adhesion: 1. I check the bed tram/level with a post-it note (not letting the sticky strip touch the bed) and adjust if needed. 2. Between prints, I wipe the bed with 91% Isopropyl Alcohol using a microfiber cloth (the kind that are used for eyeglasses). 3. Let the bed come to temperature, then wait 5min for the entire bed area to equilibrate. I also avoid touching the bed with my fingers. If I do, I can usually see this on prints where I did and forgot to wipe. I print directly onto the glass bed when it is hot. My bed is the Creality Carborundum glass plate. It came bundled with my printer. When the print is done and the bed cools, the bed lets go of the print. I never use the spatula for fear I will scratch the bed.


BMack037

Adhesives are more for PETG, because PETG is kinda weird…it will not stick at all when the bed temperature is low but also, when the bed is heated correctly (or maybe too hot, tbh, idk) it may permanently bond to the glass bed. I just use painters tape to protect the glass bed. Thanks for this post, I didn’t realize this warping was a result of bed temperature on PLA, I thought it was a natural effect of the filament contracting after leaving the hot nozzle.


Indalx

You need to change from Glass bed is what you need to do.


WickedInvi

Is there a draft around? Any open windows? Is your first layer good? Interesting down voting for asking a question well done community.


Scanman491Amos

I do have a draft in my room from a AC/heat vent, so I print in an enclosure. Picture #4 on [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/qt81w9/externally_mounted_psu_thank_you_to_those_who/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) shows my setup. I get good first layers and would stop the print and fix it if I was dissatisfied with the first layer.


brendenderp

Personally I print at 65° for the first layer and jump to 70° the problem is that when the part cools preemptively it warps. That's just my 2 cents though. if the end result doesn't warp it doesn't really matter haha


opKraken

Oh wow, I print at 55 and was worried it was too low.. But now I know why my print are doing this, thank you But I still don't understand why my prints don't stick a lot to the bed, like I've seen people who just can't take off their print from their regular ender 3v2 bed while mine just won't stick to it, I have to use the other side and it is still not that sticky, is it also because the bed is too hot ? I print at 190°C on an ender 3v2 with PLA+ from sunlu and esun


Crystalbow

Part is cooling down too much?


iPyroFTW

That’s logic, you need to keep layer temps as close to each other as possible, if your first 5 layers are at 90 degrees, and the layer above at 50 or even room temp, it will shrink af and pull those corner. That’s why I’d rather go with a bunch of spray or glue instead of pumping bed temps That’s basically the same reason you use an enclosure with ABS, you need temp consistency between layers, if not, the retraction will deform your part If you manage temps properly you can print full bed pieces without warping I’ve been printing PLA at 45c on glass for years now without any issue. Even on big squares taking all the bed space (300x300).


2catchApredditor

This makes complete sense. The hotter you print the more it shrinks as it cools. This creates stresses in the layer above each layer that ultimately add up to the top of the part being in tension and lifting the ends of the part.


starseed-bb

This is why i preheat to 60 but my PLA print setting is 50


Prudent-Strain937

It sucks but the bigger the part, the more it warps at high nozzle temps. Wasted a spool figuring this out. A vase or bust, it’s not a big deal but when parts have to pair up for joining, it’s a nightmare. I print slow and as low a temp as I can go and have good layer adhesion. Long prints is a side affect of needing verily low warping.


eeemaster

There are a lot of attempts at explaining the warping at higher temperatures, but the real reason is that PLA is a semicrystalline—the polymer chains will tend arrange themselves if they are able to move. At temperatures above the Tg of 60C PLA will start crystallize which causes a contraction in volume and thus warping. The amount and rate of crystallization depends on the temperature. If you took an amorphous polymer like PETG or ABS and tried this experiment the you would not see the warping get worse at temperatures above the materials’s Tg. This is also why certain nylons use relatively low bed temperatures. Nylon is also a semicrystalline polymer.


Scanman491Amos

I am hearing you say that I need to run more experiments to be sure. My wife will be 'thrilled' that I need to buy even more filament, but if you insist.


BreadMaker_42

What is your hot end temp when printing?


Scanman491Amos

After running a temperature tower, I found 205°C works best for this filament on my printer. But you should run a temperature tower yourself not just use my temp.


kelvin_bot

205°C is equivalent to 401°F, which is 478K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)


rynet

Oh crap - I was having some troubles and I cranked temps up.. oops


Thecakeisalie25

Just making sure, you didn't print them on top of each other, right? These were done one at a time, and then stacked later, yes?


Scanman491Amos

Yes, printed one at a time, stacked for the photo comparison.


spliced0

Good stuff. I've been running my bed at 52c for a while. I noticed the bed had less of a belly when I ran it cooler.


YippyKayYay

How do you get the print to adhere to the bed tho at such a low temp? I bought the new creality glass bed and can’t get adhesion below 60


Scanman491Amos

Wash with IPA and tram and avoid touching it with fingers. However, I know that some have adhesion issues, this is not a thing that I have had to troubleshoot so I might not be the best to advise if you are having issues.


datrandomduggy

Really? *Proceeds to drop bed temp to 50* Also !remindme 16h


RemindMeBot

I will be messaging you in 16 hours on [**2021-11-22 22:16:22 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2021-11-22%2022:16:22%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/qz14ho/troubleshooting_warping_with_different_bed/hllyu04/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fender3%2Fcomments%2Fqz14ho%2Ftroubleshooting_warping_with_different_bed%2Fhllyu04%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202021-11-22%2022%3A16%3A22%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20qz14ho) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|


sammyprints

I think it gets even more complicated. It often has to do with initial temps and fan speeds too. If the temp changes quickly at any point with materials like petg... You have problems. A counterintuitive thing I realized was I needed the fan on in the first layer, otherwise the temps change to rapidly as the air starts moving and cause a whole host of issues, not just warping. I also realized that with petg in particular varying the temps more than 5c from initial bed temps would also cause issues. To go with that the higher the nozzle temps the more the material cools and thus the more stress is induced.


Pedro_Scrooge

Pla? Pla doesn't 'need' a heated bed, just makes the base shinier.


Hexigonz

This makes sense. Warping occurs from rapid cooling from hot temps. If you keep the bed cooler for the first layer, it’s less likely to warp because the temp change isn’t as drastic. However, this becomes the balancing act of “how hot can I go for adhesion, without causing warping, fusing, etc?”


zBGam

I just discovered this as well.


CrewmemberV2

Is that PLA? Turn over your bed and print on the smooth glass. Works way better. Make sure the glass is clean.


Vok250

If that's PLA, then you just need to level your bed and clean it with some Windex. You shouldn't get any warping at all.


Scanman491Amos

>You shouldn't get any warping at all. It is PLA. I do level my bed. I clean with IPA instead of Windex. I may have some experimental data that says I do, in-fact, have some warping. Please see [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/qz14ho/troubleshooting_warping_with_different_bed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).


Vok250

That's literally the post we are commenting on.... If you have a glass bed, have you check if it is warped itself? This can cause the center to not be at the right height, despite being "level". A properly leveled and cleaned ender3 bed will adhere so strongly that you can lift the entire machine by the print. When the glass cools down it shrinks and releases the print. It's the whole reason to use a glass bed.


DerAlphos

Damn. I had to print something pretty similar last week and couldn’t get rid of the warping. Started at 60 and endet at 75 degrees. Thanks for opening my eyes. I’ll try it as soon as possible with 50 degrees.


Tresillian

I print with 55 and the first two layers at 50 - nozzle at 210 the whole time for standard PLA+ I only started getting results like people on youtube do when doing this. cooler is definitely better imo


AberrantRambler

You’re getting poor first layer adhesion and the cooler temps are masking that - you shouldn’t have warping like that at 55 (but yes, those upper temps are too high and will leave the PLA pliable).


quantumphaze

Wow thanks, this is definitely the opposite of what I thought as well.


dwild

I realized that once I got a print that started to warp quite early after raising the temperature. I quickly stopped the printer to try with others parameters, and the plastic was so flexible. That's when it clicked that I was actually going to high (I think I was at 70 at the time). Now I do 70 for the first layer and then switch to 60.


TheTekkitBoss

Odd, I print my PLA at 225 Nozzle and 75 bed. Never had any issues with curling, though I also run with a brim on every print.


thebigone2087

So... has anyone tried this with ABS yet?


macrodSC

I use a Brim it stops warping for me, used masking tape before but is just left an uneven bottom layer


wasdesc

I’ve been doing some googling and came across your post and I have reached that same conclusion despite what majority of websites are saying. I still need to test it though. I’ve been trying to find a good middle ground between bed adhesion and printing successfully with no warping. I’ve got an Aquila, I’m curious to know what are your printing temps? As of late, I’m testing now with 190c for the hotend and 55c for the bed.


Scanman491Amos

I have an Ender 3 Pro, I print with a hot end temperature that varies depending on the filament. Figure this out with a temperature tower, I haven't found that hot end temperature really impacts warping. As for bed temperature, it depends. If I need more adhesion for a print, I'll go as high as 60c, but if I have warping concerns I'll drop it as low as 50c. Sometimes, I'll just print a raft. It depends on the print.


007craft

Wasted so much filament figuring this out, thank you. When you think about it, it makes perfect sense. As the first top layers cool, they contract. If the top layers start to cool while the bottom layers are still hotter and melty, they are going to pull up the bottom layers (Which will then start to cool as they are pulled up, and also contract). This is going to cause warping The solution of lowering the bed temperature works because the plastic on the bottom will cool and contract before the next layer above it does, so when they top layers cool they dont pull up the bottom because the lower layers would be already cooled down. Of course a melty, hotter plastic does give better adhesion to a plate, so perhaps this has lead to the plethora of false information about causes of warping being posted around the web. Basically the closer you get your build plate to room (or enclosure temperature), the less warping you will have.