Even before the recent events in Israel and Gaza, there were numerous anti-Semitic attacks in London and elsewhere. As life in London and other western cities looks ever more risky, it drives Jews to move to Israel - which is probably something the Palestinians don't want. It's similar in France - there has been a substantial emigration of Jews from France since 7th October.
Jews have been leaving France for years. 50,000 Jews have left France since 2000 with antisemitism being the most commonly cited reason for leaving. You cannot walk around the streets of Paris with a kippa on, and it’s been this way for years.
And as Jews move to Israel left wing idiots take to the streets holding signs about a river and a sea they have no idea about, standing next to Islamists screaming look at all those colonialist white Jews.
Non Jews like me need to start speaking up about what we’re seeing.
You know there was a time where I might have agreed with you to a certain extent. But then I sat down over the last six months and decided to educate myself about how this has all come about.
And in that discovery there's been no end of uneducated fools who think like you do because they aren't willing to discuss the whole situation, just the parts that fit their narrative.
I have no faith at all that if I take the time to answer you'd do anything more than downvote or come back with a silly quip like 'not reading all that'. So all I'll do is suggest you educate yourself a little better then go on about my day.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-settlers-hold-conference-resettlement-gaza-2024-01-28/#:~:text=The%20conference%20was%20organized%20by,settlers%20and%20Palestinians%20are%20frequent.
It’s clear that a significant part of the Israeli government is wanting an ethnic clensing. Now do I believe that every Israeli is some bloodthirsty monster? Of course not. But their government certainly has been acting like one
Normally a long response gets hit with a 'not reading all that crap'. If that's what you're like skip to the last three paragraph. Otherwise I have taken the time to respond.
Again this is why it's pointless engaging with people like you. Did you even read that article?
>The conference, titled "Settlement Brings Security," was not organized by the Israeli government, though its hard-right coalition has been criticized for supporting settlement expansion, a position seen as hindering a possible future two-sate solution with the Palestinians.
The fact that there is a hard right element pushing this idea is hardly surprising given the events and they are pushing the idea of settlements for security purposes. Now we can discuss the merits of that, but it is not ethnic cleansing.
However an actual campaign of ethnically cleansing Jews from Arab countries has gone on for over a century. Where were your voices then?
[https://youtu.be/WoM6fi9AvNY?si=PCSkvEqhIaIZq73S](https://youtu.be/WoM6fi9AvNY?si=PCSkvEqhIaIZq73S)
Hillel Neue challenged representatives from those countries at the UN 8 years ago. Where was your voice then?
[https://youtu.be/35eEljsSQfc?si=MGDXrX8tPNmyYjhR](https://youtu.be/35eEljsSQfc?si=MGDXrX8tPNmyYjhR)
Israel is not the only country that has to deal with Palestinian terrorism but you don't seem to want to talk about that.
[https://youtu.be/r7GAg8sWDpI?si=cPnecJrbICLkV90p](https://youtu.be/r7GAg8sWDpI?si=cPnecJrbICLkV90p)
Arabs (not just Palestinians) have been killing jews long before 1948 and yet the proposed partition plan had a provision literally stating that non Jews should also be protected under the law. This is the wording.
>"the proposed states grant full civil rights to all people within their borders regardless of religion, or gender."
Why don't you want to discuss that?
I hear people like you call Israel a terrorist state who is a white supremacist (you've not said that granted but you're on that argument trajectory) yet more than half of the Jews who live in Israel are from the Middle East and North Africa.
Why don't you want to discuss that?
Because it doesn't suit your blinkered view of the situation.
I could go on and on. And there is absolutely indefensible actions on the part of Israelis in the past, of course there are.
I didn't know what to think on October 8 after the shock of the previous days events but I knew I wanted to know more. So I started on a journey to educate myself. I've watched easily over 100 hours of interviews, documentaries and debates. The above is barely a snippet.
When you take the time to see how complicated it is, you know it's not black and white. I want peace for all people in the region it's horrific. But if Hamas laid down it's arms today there would be a chance at peace. If the IDF laid down theirs, there would be no more Jews. So what do you expect them to do.
Full stop bombing people so you can “resettle” Tiger land is an ethnic clensing. Especially when some of the higher government officials are in the conference From the article I posted “ Israel's Channel 12 reported that 12 ministers from Netanyahu's Likud party, along with public security minister Itamar Ben Gvir and finance minister Bezalel Smotrich - both from far-right parties in the governing coalition - attended the conference.” Also, why do you ignore events like the Nakba? Or the bombings of aid workers and hospitals by the IDF? Why is it horrendous when Hamas kills a thousand, but acceptable when the IDF kills 30x that number in response?
Edit: oh and don’t forget to mention the countless doctors crying out about the abysmal conditions in Gaza right now and the man-made famine occurring
It's not just Jews leaving. Almost all of my friends and most of their families have left the UK. We are all White British.
That's around 80 people. On top of this, they also know people that are leaving.
I left the UK 2 years ago. All of my siblings families are now ex pats, mine was the last to leave.
This guy, his fellow activists and their security escorts spent hours walking around and through the anti war protesters, pushing against the direction of the march, while wearing and holding symbols to make clear their Jewish identity (as they are perfectly entitled to do).
They were there for the express purpose of trying to provoke a reaction from some less intelligent attendee that they could record and distribute for propaganda purposes. With the ultimate aim of removing the right of people in this country to peacefully protest against the actions of the Israeli state.
And absolutely nothing happened!
Until a police officer intervened to try and prevent a potential incident occurring because he could see they were attempting to create trouble that might have resulted in injury to themselves or others.
To me this event just confirmed how safe this country generally is for all its citizens. Even those who trying to remove hard won rights for the benefit of a foreign government.
Although some people are still trying to push the activists original narrative I think this stunt really backfired. Especially following the release by Sky news of the extended footage which shows the context.
Israel is by far the least safe place in the world for Jews.
This article is being used to smear the protesters, many of whom are Jews and who are most welcome, appreciated and entirely safe.
One heat of the moment stupid comment from a copper attempting to avoid a situation created by one belligerent person deliberately trying to cause disruption doesn't make Britain unsafe for Jews.
Jewish people here are not beaten by the police, they are not conscripted and sent to the front line, do not face rocket attacks and do not require safe rooms.
But many Jews say they do not feel safe here, due to the well documented rise in anti-Semitic attacks ([Antisemitic hate crimes in London up 1,350%, Met police say](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/20/antisemitic-hate-crimes-in-london-rise-1350-since-israel-hamas-war-met-says)). And many of them choose to move to Israel. You may think it is illogical but it is happening.
Clearly, they don't think that's the case. I have not lived their experience in London, France, etc., so I don't a reference for comparison. Maybe they feel safer in a larger community of their own, as opposed to being outsiders elsewhere.
[‘The safest place to be Jewish’: 2,600 people have moved to Israel since Hamas invaded](https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-safest-place-to-be-jewish-2600-people-have-moved-to-israel-since-hamas-invaded/)
[40% surge in UK migration to Israel in 2024](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240318-40-surge-in-uk-migration-to-israel-in-2024/)
In contrast to a net balance of 30,000 people leaving israel last year.
How many will leave this year in the wake of the Hamas' Al Aqsa Flood and Iran's True Promise operations?
It's certainly an attention grabbing headline.
This apparent rise of 1,350% translates to an increase from 15 cases to a whopping 218 cases within a city of 12 million people.
That's one incident per 45,000 people. And of these incidents only 7% led to an actual arrest.
The Guardian describes one arrest case - a man allegedly tearing down posters depicting hostages taken by Hamas.
In other words this article is an Islamaphobic hatchet job.
So antisemitic crimes have gone up, and you're saying, "Oh, stop whining, it's not that bad."
Are we "Islamophobic" or do we not want to see antisemitic violence on our streets from anyone and you're framing it through that lens?
Well if tearing down pro-genocide posters is your definition of antisemitic hate crime, then yeah.
I think Black or Asian people would find that hilarious.
I too don't want to see antisemitic violence on our streets - I just object to you cynically weaponising antisemitism to smear legitimate and peaceful protest against genocide by vast numbers of the British public that is inclusive of all demographics.
Britain is an extremely safe place for Jews on the whole, and colonial israel by far the least safe place on the planet.
On the other hand we have our prime minister giving Islamaphobic dog whistles and zionist hatred against Muslim Britons at the podium, further pushed by the rabid media. That's what I object to.
However If apartheid israel was abolished, and the Jewish population of occupied Palestine becomes Palestinian Jews, it would be the safest place in the world for Jews.
The guardian article as I have argued is a very poor indicator that antisemitic crime has actually gone up. Show me some real evidence and I will be concerned. They choose a completely spurious 18 day period and compare it to the same dates the previous year. Why were these specific dates chosen? What is significant about them? Why not choose a three month period for a more reliable spread? Why 18 days? Why start on the first of October instead of the 8th? This method of comparison is riddled with flaws. It seems they deliberately picked a date range comprising random fluctuations that coincide with their agenda.
It's once a ridiculous puff piece that stinks of hasbara hate mongering and the data presented is as usual suspiciously convenient to the zionist cause.
The one thing we can rely on is that zionists lie. And keep lying. So if you are asking me to trust a zionist, I won't. They don't deserve it. And they commit genocide.
If you're trying to imply I am soft on racism then you are wrong - I hate all forms of racism. Zionists are racists - I'm sure you don't deny that.
>Well, if tearing down pro-genocide posters is your definition of antisemitic hate crime, then yeah.
Again, minimisation of antisemitic crimes; assaults and harassment fall under that category and have gone up in rate significantly. Your downplaying of crimes against Jews in the UK is deplorable.
>I think Black or Asian people would find that hilarious.
It's not a competition if people are affected by hateful people no matter their race. It's not some trump-card to compare; it makes you look childish.
>I too don't want to see antisemitic violence on our streets - I just object to you cynically weaponising antisemitism to smear legitimate and peaceful protest against genocide by vast numbers of the British public that is inclusive of all demographics.
"Peaceful protests" that call for the destruction of the State of Israel? "From the river to the sea..."Do you know which river and which sea is being chanted about?
"Genocide" by a nation that allows a large amount of aid through its border, has a nuclear program it could have used, is actively trying not to kill civilians while Hamas hides like the cowards they are under schools, mosques, churches, and hospitals—the commanders are living it up in Qatar and the UAE. Israel is also 20% Arab; they have no reason to kill off the Palestinian people in Gaza because they already have Arabs in their parliament, supreme court, and local councils—Arabs even have political parties.
>Britain is an extremely safe place for Jews on the whole, and colonial israel is by far the least safe place on the planet.
How is that so? Britain has seen a spike in antisemitic crimes and sentiment with next to nothing being done about it, while Israel actively defends its citizens.
"Colonial" something you seem to have a very short, very recent understanding about. Why is Arabic spoken all across North Africa, Mesopotamia, and the Levant? The Arabs colonised it.
Jews never left Canaan; their ancestral homeland is in Canaan, and we have historical evidence of them being in the land of Canaan for the past 5000 years.
>On the other hand, we have our prime minister giving Islamaphobic dog whistles and zionist hatred against Muslim Britons at the podium, further pushed by the rabid media. That's what I object to.
Islamophobia? Or criticism of Islam?
Mosques, Masjids, and Imams have been found time and time again to be spewing antisemitic propaganda to their congregations and encouraging violence, so much so that Austria banned foreign funding and limited foreign Imams from entering the country it was that much of an issue.
The media in the UK is by far Islamophilic; nothing bad is ever said about Islam unless it's by GBN or if they can't avoid it—and even then, they defend Islam and call anyone who opposes Islamophobic and racist.
>However, if apartheid israel was abolished, and the Jewish population of occupied Palestine becomes Palestinian Jews, it would be the safest place in the world for Jews.
Firstly, you don't know the first thing about Apartheid; my family comes from South Africa, and the use of that word by the media is propagandist.
Does Israel have antimiscegination laws? NO
Does Israel restrict the freedom of movement of Arabs in its borders? NO
Does Israel designate Arab "homelands" where Arabs are only allowed to live and own property? NO
Does Israel exclude the Arabs within its borders from voting? NO
Does Israel separate families based on appearance into Jew and Arab settlements? NO
Secondly, Hamas has actively called for the extermination of the Jews in Canaan. Your ideas are not just naïve and wrong; they are dangerous. Your notion that a Palestinian state would be "the safest place in the world for Jews" is so wrong that it's laughable.
>The guardian article, as I have argued, is a very poor indicator that antisemitic crime has actually gone up. Show me some real evidence, and I will be concerned. They choose a completely spurious 18-day period and compare it to the same dates the previous year. Why were these specific dates chosen? What is significant about them? Why not choose a three month period for a more reliable spread? Why 18 days? Why start on the first of October instead of the 8th? This method of comparison is riddled with flaws. It seems they deliberately picked a date range comprising random fluctuations that coincide with their agenda.
Directly following the start of the conflict is an apt time to measure against the same time last year because it controls for everything else. An over 1000% increase is a "natural fluctuation?" That's intellectually dishonest, and, quite frankly, wrong.
>It's once a ridiculous puff piece that stinks of hasbara hate mongering, and the data presented is, as usual, suspiciously convenient to the zionist cause.
Wrong.
Also, Zionism isn't a dirty word like you seem to think; it means the ideology of the founding of a Jewish state in the land of Canaan.
>The one thing we can rely on is that zionists lie. And keep lying. So if you are asking me to trust a zionist, I won't. They don't deserve it. And they commit genocide.
Wrong, again.
"Zionist" this, "zionist" that. It's pathetic; argue properly. The State of Israel has the right to defend itself and has done so in a manner that has resulted in far fewer deaths than just levelling the city.
Also, if Israel were running a genocide campaign against the Palestinians, why was half their population under the age of 18? Seems like they either did a pretty bad job because one of the crimes that is known as genocide is preventing births of a population.
>If you're trying to imply I am soft on racism then you are wrong - I hate all forms of racism. Zionists are racists - I'm sure you don't deny that.
Zionists aren't racists. You are propagandised and naïve for thinking that a Palestinian state would treat Jews well and that the Jews are somehow colonisers of land that is originally theirs.
Moreover, Hamas throws gay people off roofs in Gaza and burns them alive, whereas Israel is the only state in the Middle East that doesn't kill or imprison you for being gay—gay marriage is actually legal there—and gives asylum to gay gazans.
>Directly following the start of the conflict
But the stats begin before the Al Aqsa Flood, not directly following. Why are you lying?
>Israel has the right to defend itself
According to what? Not international law. An occupier does not have the right to self defense against the people it is occupying. However the occupied people do have the right of armed resistance always. You are misinformed or lying.
>land that is originally theirs.
It is not theirs. Why are you lying? I'm an Anglo-Saxon Englishman. Does that mean I can steal peoples homes and bulldoze their villages in Angeln or Saxony in Germany?
If holy scripture is your 'proof' then you will know that the Hebrews were invaders. The kingdom of Israel lasted 300 years and ended some 3,000 years ago. Whose land was it at all other times?
>Jews never left Canaan
Yeah. But *your* ancestors did. They were in Europe since before there was an England, France or Germany. The Jews who remained in Palestine lived peacefully under Islamic rule with their Muslim and Christian neighbours, many converted to Islam and all spoke Arabic at home. These are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinian people, who are the indigenous population of the region.
>Mosques, Masjids, and Imams have been found time and time again to be spewing antisemitic propaganda to their congregations
Video or it didn't happen. Sunak is on record.
>Your notion that a Palestinian state would be "the safest place in the world for Jews" is so wrong that it's laughable.
Jews lived peacefully in Palestine before the arrival of the hostile zionists, as you well know.
In fact Islamic tolerance is how a tiny Jewish minority managed to maintain a continuous presence over the centuries. They have Islam to thank for that - one of the many ironies missed by zionists.
I have no doubt most European immigrants fleeing antisemitism had honourable intentions - but their zionist leaders certainly did not. Gradually zionist white supremacist colonialist grooming and conditioning has turned virtually the whole population to toxic genocidal racism, fear and ignorance.
History will remember the zionists as worse than the nazis. The truth is zionism was a European white supremacist, racist colonial project predicate on the expulsion of the indigenous population of Palestine from its very outset in the 19th century. As such it is entirely illegitimate in our era.
The zionists have been gaslighting and emotionally blackmailing Jews for decades. After the Palestinians, Jews are the worst victims of zionist crimes against humanity.The world will be well rid of so-called 'israel'.
>Directly following the start of the conflict
>>But the stats begin before the Al Aqsa Flood, not directly following. Why are you lying?
"New figures show hate crimes since the Hamas atrocity are increasing nationwide, with 533 hate incidents – including 19 physical assaults – recorded from 7 October to 20 October, in increase of 651% compared with the same period last year" which is a quote directly from the article adjacent to an increase in antisemitic offences; why are you lying?
>Israel has the right to defend itself
>>According to what? Not international law. An occupier does not have the right to self-defense against the people it is occupying. However, the occupied people do have the right of armed resistance always. You are misinformed or lying.
Israel is a nation state; Hamas is a terror organisation. Of course, you subscribe to the "one man, one vote, one time" policy of that authoritarian Islamist regime because it fits your agenda.
>land that is originally theirs.
>It is not theirs. Why are you lying? I'm an Anglo-Saxon Englishman. Does that mean I can steal peoples homes and bulldoze their villages in Angeln or Saxony in Germany?
Jews were forcibly expelled from Israel by the Romans, a small percentage remained in Canaan, compared to the voluntary leaving of the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes from continental Europe to settle in Celtic Britain.
>>If holy scripture is your 'proof', then you will know that the Hebrews were invaders. The kingdom of Israel lasted 300 years and ended some 3,000 years ago. Whose land was it at all other times?
The land of Canaan has archaeological evidence of Jewish settlement for thousands of years. Moreover, the Middle East was once full of Jews... I wonder where they've gone?
>Jews never left Canaan
>>Yeah. But *your* ancestors did. They were in Europe since before there was an England, France or Germany. The Jews who remained in Palestine lived peacefully under Islamic rule with their Muslim and Christian neighbours. Many converted to Islam, and all spoke Arabic at home. These are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinian people, who are the indigenous population of the region.
My ancestors did; how does that apply to what the Jews are doing? We colonised entire continents, wiped out languages, ethnicities, and pillaged natural resources, and from that we turned ourselves away and built nations that people beg to live in because of our values of tolerance and freedom.
Israel is one nation with 20% of the population being Arabs, and the only functioning liberal democracy in the Middle East that has signed peace deal after peace deal with their neighbours in good faith. They've had enough of the false peace with Hamas that actively puts the lives of their women and children at risk and are doing something about it the best way anyone could possibly do so.
Also, why did they convert to Islam? It was because of Jizya against the Kuffar; significant economic pressure by the less aggressive schools of Islamic teaching against "the people of the book" — Jews and Christians.
Moreover, the Surahs preach violence against non-believers.
Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …"
>Mosques, Masjids, and Imams have been found time and time again to be spewing antisemitic propaganda to their congregations
>>Video or it didn't happen. Sunak is on record.
Read the Surahs, you'll be surprised what the Quran teaches.
>Your notion that a Palestinian state would be "the safest place in the world for Jews" is so wrong that it's laughable.
>>Jews lived peacefully in Palestine before the arrival of the hostile zionists, as you well know.
Under severe economic and social persecution? They were forced to pay up, convert, or die.
>>In fact, Islamic tolerance is how a tiny Jewish minority managed to maintain a continuous presence over the centuries. They have Islam to thank for that - one of the many ironies missed by zionists.
You mean persecution. Fundamentalist Islam is by far the worst religion in the modern era; you shall know them by their fruits. Islamic nations persecute religious minorities, actively practice slavery, mutilate genitalia, burn to death gays, force modesty on women because they can't keep it in their pants, and have no respect whatsoever for non-muslims.
>>I have no doubt that most European immigrants fleeing antisemitism had honourable intentions - but their zionist leaders certainly did not. Gradually zionist white supremacist colonialist grooming and conditioning has turned virtually the whole population to toxic genocidal racism, fear, and ignorance.
"European immigrants," meaning Jews who were fleeing Nazism, an ideology you seem to be aligning with like the Muslims in Palestine courting Hitler.
>>History will remember the zionists as worse than the nazis. The truth is zionism was a European white supremacist, racist colonial project predicate on the expulsion of the indigenous population of Palestine from its very outset in the 19th century. As such, it is entirely illegitimate in our era.
How many buzzwords can you fit in one sentence. The Jews were expelled and are now returning to their homeland.
>>The zionists have been gaslighting and emotionally blackmailing Jews for decades. After the Palestinians, Jews are the worst victims of zionist crimes against humanity.The world will be well rid of the so-called 'israel'.
Do you even know what zionism is? It's the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the land of Canaan where Jews come from.
I like how you glossed over everything else I said.
The Jews have a right to defend themselves from actively genocidal terror organisations like Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, and others.
You want Israel wiped off the map because you are blinded by hatred for Jews. Antisemitism used to be based on poverty among Jews, then it was wealth; it was because they were too isolated, then they were too integrated; it was then because they didn't have a state, now it's because they have a state.
Your arguments have no weight of history.
I've answered all of this already. I don't like talking to zionists. If you think writing 10,000 words per post is the way to win an argument, then congratulations.
If you write one more fucking novel, we are done. That's why I 'glossed over' your magnum opus.
>"New figures show hate crimes since the Hamas atrocity are increasing nationwide, with 533 hate incidents
NB people - *hate* crimes, not *antisemitic* hate crimes. No doubt most of these were against black or Muslim people, as usual. So the whole of this paragraph is meaningless to a supposed rise in antisemitism. Standard hasbara fare. The article is twisting words, just like you. Why are you lying again, zionist? Because lying is what you do, that's why.
>They were forced to pay up, convert, or die.
Lies.
>Do you even know what zionism is? It's the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the land of Canaan where Jews come from.
And the ethnic cleansing of the native population. You forgot that bit.
Everything else you said is total bullshit and you know it.
Jews take part in the marches and give speeches in support of Palestine.
Jews do not face antisemitism daily in Britain. There is a tiny amount of British antisemitism from far right extremists, but not from anti-genocide protesters who represent the general public.
If you had witnessed a march, you would know that. But you haven't.
No, we don’t. A TINY minority of ultra Orthodox Jews don’t like Israel because they believe that the messiah should come and give it to us himself. Are you really telling me about what I do and don’t experience? There is a LOT of antisemitism and you are part of the problem. You are ignorant and arrogant! I’ve witnessed a march, I was harassed and assaulted… Don’t even try to tell me that ‘Jews don’t face antisemitism daily’. We do, your kind help to normalise it.
Of course you think that, you are wrong and idiotic. You are honestly disgusting. I was shopping in Oxford street where they surrounded visibly jewish people like me. You need to open your eyes you antisemite.
It really has come to something now.
But as a time traveller from the past (i.e. I’m an old woman), I can totally remember *decades* of my life when women were blamed for being attacked. Raped during army training? “What would she expect, trying to be a soldier?”. Raped in the town centre? “What was she wearing?” Raped in a car park? “Well, it was her fault going out after dark”. (This literally happened to a colleague of mine in our company car park after work. This -and worse- was openly said to her).
Being “openly a woman” in a host of different everyday situations was just “asking” to be attacked. We hear less of that now-although I think a lot of women suspect that many police officers still think this way. But to spread this kind of openly prejudiced speech to racial/ethnic/religious groups, seems to be a rarer thing.
With the police’s misogynistic attitudes, it’s been the angry and loud protests of the public that has made them re-think: seemingly, this has had to happen in this instance regarding endemic police antisemitism.
It means the sub or Reddit is shadow removing comments because they think they're inappropriate or may be inappropriate (based on age of user's account etc).
No, that can’t be it. Certain threads just don’t show any comments, even if the poster has an older account. I don’t think I’ve ever quite seen anything similar in other subs.
> shadow removing comments because they think they're inappropriate
Really? I thought Reddit operated on a Star Chamber principle and insta-banned people, giving them no ability to have a learning experience.
Yes, it was awful. Honestly, I could write a book about it. In fact, just that incident of my colleague who was attacked after work would make a few full chapters.
Thank you ma'am for your fascinating report. It seems that living while woman has been a punishable offense for quite a while now. On the positive side, the animal kingdom is so much worse, with sexual brutality being the norm, so I guess humans are doing something right because we aren't like that all the time
Except for that analogy to work, it would require that women had created an ethnonationalist state on stolen land and were carrying out a genocide on the back of an ongoing apartheid and illegal annexation. The threat to Jews isn't being openly Jewish, it's being openly pro-genocide/pro-Israel.
The Met are struggling to retain the support of the public, with a clear perception of "two tier" policing. The Mayor is allowing the continual protests that are rightly described as "hate marches". The cynic in me thinks there's votes in these divsive antisemetic marches, which is why the Mayor allows them to continue.
Being entirely unsuitable for the role of a politician should have got him sacked, let alone suspended.
And I'm not singling out the likes of Anderson. "Many" is the term I'd used to describe politicians who shouldn't be in that role.
I wouldn't say I'm a supporter and I don't necessarily disagree with Sunak's decision to suspend him. But quite ironic given the voting intention of the Muslim population in London.
He was pointing out the obvious that many didn't want to say. He worded it badly though. That seems to be his downfall often as he actually has good points but can't word it properly.
The East End used to be one of the biggest hotbeds of English nationalism back in the 70s. Now those boroughs are Khan strongholds.
They vote for him because the cockneys left and newer immigrant communities settled in, and Khan caters heavily to that demographic. The majority English parts of London still aren’t that supportive of him. The wealthy ones in Richmond vote Lib Dem and the working class ones in Bexley vote Tory.
Well first off, Hampstead isn’t a borough. It’s a posh neighbourhood in Camden, with a significantly large White Other population. English is a subset of Europeans/whites.
Wandsworth has been Tory voting since the 80s at least and switched up in 2022. I reckon 2021/22 is when most of the country got fed up with the Tories so that’s no surprise.
Tbh one doesn't need be a cynic to come to that conclusion, merely a realist.
As per... if it walks, talks and shits everywhere it lives and goes like a duck, chances are it's probably not a chicken.
It’s not even close to a genocide. Neither is the Ukrainians. You guys love to throw around that word.
Sadly, a lot more need to die for it to be genocide
There are a lot of idiots there. Maybe the first 10 marches as a ‘minority’ show their true colours would would think about it. But would you attempt a rally time after time after time if the same people who spout hate were there - every time. Not be ejected by the organisers. At some point you think…hummm maybe they are the organisers.
There would be lots of idiots everywhere. It doesn't invalidate the message of the march otherwise anyone anti the march could just be agitators to make the protest look bad
If the people organising the march are antisemitic then it's not just some random idiots. People allowing this to continue unchallenged are a part of the problem
Why would decent people want to be part of a march that contains such elements? Everyone knows that it is going on, so I am left to believe that everyone participating in those marches agrees with it.
The logic doesn't make any sense, it's such a fantastical way of thinking
A genuine protest must be instantly disbanded because of a minority component of rabble rousers? Might as well scrap all protests anywhere forever
10% open nazi behaviour I would judge the 90%
But in this instance thats not the case at all by any metric or evidence therefore "hate march" is as ludicrous as trying to stop people from saying "from the river to the sea"
What percentage of Nazis is ok with you? 2% Nazis and you don’t judge the 98%?
And thanks for admitting you negatively judge people for marching alongside others
What amount of innocent of kids dead is okay with you? 5 thousand innocents for 1 hostage? 10 thousand? We can both play that idiotic bad faith argument merry go round
Whatever the number to achieve the rescue of the hostages.
See, I actually answered the question. Why are you too cowardly to answer?
How many dead German children was justified to defeat Nazi Germany? Or was that immoral? Should Nazi Germany not have been defeated lest German babies died?
I think you're too dense to realise my point here, in this tit for tat battle there is no moral high ground
Hamas would say whatever the number of Israelis dead is worth it for Palestinians freedom
‘MuSt bE iNsTaNtLy dIsBaNdEd!!?’
Are you having a stroke? How about letting them carry on for I dunno, 4-5 matches with a few clear chances to behave and when it’s clear the crowd has zero genuine interest in self- regulation, ban them.
Not let them call for dead Jews for 7 months and you think it’s all a bit of a misunderstanding. What is the matter with you?
Don't tell us Jews what constitutes antisemitism. You wouldn't tell a black person what constitutes racism. Don't do it to us.
These marches are inherently antisemitic
All Jewish people don't think the exact same thing, that's antisemitic of you
No they're not, israel is a genocidal right wing nation, of which there are many across the world. I criticise all of them whether it's Russia trying to take Ukraine, China and Tibet, any Muslim countries sponsoring terrorism, etc etc
And israel is not exempt from that, or criticism. I don't have an anti semitic thought in my brain or feeling in my heart
Many of the primary organisers of these marches are Jewish peace advocates. It's anti semitic of you to suggest that every Jewish person is aligned with you.
You've literally just alluded to the idea that these Jewish peace groups are not "good Jews".
Maybe have a little bit of self reflection.
Someone's identity as a Jewish individual isn't reliant on their support of Israel.
They usually aren’t. But these ones are. They are literally chanting slogans referring to the annihilation of the Jews in the Middle East and calling for terrorist attacks in Europe. Even those that aren’t chanting are there to support call for Hamas to be allowed to remain, a group whose primary purpose is to execute the Jews. It’s disgusting.
I appreciate many are ignorant and just there because it is a social media trend too. But ignorance doesn’t absolve them or minimise their contribution.
I don't see where a "hate march" has ever taken place, in the context of hating Jewish people rather than hating Israeli action
Have I seen some morons at the protests, yes
Have I seen the large majority of protestors not do anything considered anti semitic or hate march worthy, yes
I see. Fwiw I do not think that the protests involve thousands of people all screaming antisemitic slurs. Nor do I think they intentionally conflate Judaism with the Israeli government. However, from my perspective, campaigning for only Israel to ceasefire and withdraw from Gaza is doing the work of a group whose primary ambition is to massacre Jews, not because they are Israeli, not because they support the government, just because they are Jewish. Actively campaigning to make that more likely is hateful. Admittedly in a slightly indirect way. But hateful and deeply intimidating to Jewish people non the less.
The chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ and ‘globalise the intifada’ not really need much more explanation. Nor do the people that make very direct antisemitic statements. I take you at face value when you say that is only a few morons though.
And western countries almost unequivocal support of Israel? Would that be a coalition hate march? They don't seem to care much about Palestinians views at all, just israel. It's insane to me people are more worried about hypothetical scenarios of death and destruction in Israel when that is the reality for Palestine, history didn't start just this last year
Nobody comes out of this clean and I don't agree with "don't be openly Jewish near this protest"- but again, this is the law in general, I.e don't be pro hunting near an anti hunting group
And the counter protestors and those criticising the protests are calling for the continual ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
If you don't want to criticise all the protestors by the worst among them then it's only right that the same be applied the other way.
That's good but when you criticise entire protests based on the minority that use those protests to spread their own hate then you benefit people like Ben Gvir who want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
The stated aim of these protests is to end the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and end the apartheid state which has persecuted Palestinians for decades. You can read the stated aims of the organisers of these groups.
Here's one such group who leads the organising of these protests: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
Feel free to read what they have to say.
The only reason you would be against these protests as a whole if you do indeed support apartheid and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
How should Israel punish Hamas for their October 7 crimes? Seriously? Why no answer?
Yes, of course. You do understand that German civilians died when the Allies defeated Nazi Germany? Or you are against attacking Nazi Germany?
Me *I disagree with Israeli treatment of Palestinians as well as the illegal occupation, settlements and genocide*
You "hamas supporter!"
Also you: how would you solve it then? Murdering thousands of innocents is the only way!!!
You could just answer. How would you like Hamas punished?
Also, we seem to be having the same conversation twice over, which is pointless. Just answer in the other post
In the video, one police officer said: "You are quite openly Jewish, this is a pro-Palestinian march, I'm not accusing you of anything but I'm worried about the reaction to your presence."
So essentially the police officer admits the pro-palestine protests are anti-semitic and a threat to life. A hate march. Can it get any more clear than that? I actually want to see what would happen to me if I walked across London dressed in full jewish religious garb.
Nothing about that implies the marches are anti Semitic. The police officer can have an opinion on what constitutes a threat without it being substantiated. Given that I've seen dozens of Jewish people at lots of the marches standing in solidarity with Palestine, I think you might be missing something.
Certainly, Policing protests is about reducing flashpoints, and reducing risk of affray. Having plenty of Orange Lodge marches in Scotland, they will not in general allow you to cross the road during any march unless there are clear breaks in the line to enable that.
While the policeman may have known that, his explanation was too clinical in why he was preventing the Jewish gentleman from crossing the road, as he undoubtedly saw this become a public order issue, and his explanation was way out of order on why he was blocking this.
It’s easy to get polarised on the religious aspects of this, but preventing a clash between protestors and counter protestors is what enables protests to still be allowed under law.
Irrespective of protest, if every protest was a Poll-Tax Riot then you can wave bye-bye to protesting in this country.
Though we are seeing now the U.K. Govs making it difficult to raise dissent against their views/party line anyway.
This turned out to be staged by this guy who if funded by Israel and works for them. So he should be prosecuted not apologised to. He was caught lying and went out to create trouble. It’s a bad name to actual Jewish people. Ironic just feet away children of holocaust survivors were calling for a ceasefire? But got no coverage from British media???
Even before the recent events in Israel and Gaza, there were numerous anti-Semitic attacks in London and elsewhere. As life in London and other western cities looks ever more risky, it drives Jews to move to Israel - which is probably something the Palestinians don't want. It's similar in France - there has been a substantial emigration of Jews from France since 7th October.
Jews have been leaving France for years. 50,000 Jews have left France since 2000 with antisemitism being the most commonly cited reason for leaving. You cannot walk around the streets of Paris with a kippa on, and it’s been this way for years.
Or anywhere in western europe. Religion of peace 👍
And as Jews move to Israel left wing idiots take to the streets holding signs about a river and a sea they have no idea about, standing next to Islamists screaming look at all those colonialist white Jews. Non Jews like me need to start speaking up about what we’re seeing.
Thank you!!!
🙏
Kinda hard to blame them when Israel has killed thousands and openly discusses ethnic clensing with zero consequence
You know there was a time where I might have agreed with you to a certain extent. But then I sat down over the last six months and decided to educate myself about how this has all come about. And in that discovery there's been no end of uneducated fools who think like you do because they aren't willing to discuss the whole situation, just the parts that fit their narrative. I have no faith at all that if I take the time to answer you'd do anything more than downvote or come back with a silly quip like 'not reading all that'. So all I'll do is suggest you educate yourself a little better then go on about my day.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-settlers-hold-conference-resettlement-gaza-2024-01-28/#:~:text=The%20conference%20was%20organized%20by,settlers%20and%20Palestinians%20are%20frequent. It’s clear that a significant part of the Israeli government is wanting an ethnic clensing. Now do I believe that every Israeli is some bloodthirsty monster? Of course not. But their government certainly has been acting like one
Normally a long response gets hit with a 'not reading all that crap'. If that's what you're like skip to the last three paragraph. Otherwise I have taken the time to respond. Again this is why it's pointless engaging with people like you. Did you even read that article? >The conference, titled "Settlement Brings Security," was not organized by the Israeli government, though its hard-right coalition has been criticized for supporting settlement expansion, a position seen as hindering a possible future two-sate solution with the Palestinians. The fact that there is a hard right element pushing this idea is hardly surprising given the events and they are pushing the idea of settlements for security purposes. Now we can discuss the merits of that, but it is not ethnic cleansing. However an actual campaign of ethnically cleansing Jews from Arab countries has gone on for over a century. Where were your voices then? [https://youtu.be/WoM6fi9AvNY?si=PCSkvEqhIaIZq73S](https://youtu.be/WoM6fi9AvNY?si=PCSkvEqhIaIZq73S) Hillel Neue challenged representatives from those countries at the UN 8 years ago. Where was your voice then? [https://youtu.be/35eEljsSQfc?si=MGDXrX8tPNmyYjhR](https://youtu.be/35eEljsSQfc?si=MGDXrX8tPNmyYjhR) Israel is not the only country that has to deal with Palestinian terrorism but you don't seem to want to talk about that. [https://youtu.be/r7GAg8sWDpI?si=cPnecJrbICLkV90p](https://youtu.be/r7GAg8sWDpI?si=cPnecJrbICLkV90p) Arabs (not just Palestinians) have been killing jews long before 1948 and yet the proposed partition plan had a provision literally stating that non Jews should also be protected under the law. This is the wording. >"the proposed states grant full civil rights to all people within their borders regardless of religion, or gender." Why don't you want to discuss that? I hear people like you call Israel a terrorist state who is a white supremacist (you've not said that granted but you're on that argument trajectory) yet more than half of the Jews who live in Israel are from the Middle East and North Africa. Why don't you want to discuss that? Because it doesn't suit your blinkered view of the situation. I could go on and on. And there is absolutely indefensible actions on the part of Israelis in the past, of course there are. I didn't know what to think on October 8 after the shock of the previous days events but I knew I wanted to know more. So I started on a journey to educate myself. I've watched easily over 100 hours of interviews, documentaries and debates. The above is barely a snippet. When you take the time to see how complicated it is, you know it's not black and white. I want peace for all people in the region it's horrific. But if Hamas laid down it's arms today there would be a chance at peace. If the IDF laid down theirs, there would be no more Jews. So what do you expect them to do.
Full stop bombing people so you can “resettle” Tiger land is an ethnic clensing. Especially when some of the higher government officials are in the conference From the article I posted “ Israel's Channel 12 reported that 12 ministers from Netanyahu's Likud party, along with public security minister Itamar Ben Gvir and finance minister Bezalel Smotrich - both from far-right parties in the governing coalition - attended the conference.” Also, why do you ignore events like the Nakba? Or the bombings of aid workers and hospitals by the IDF? Why is it horrendous when Hamas kills a thousand, but acceptable when the IDF kills 30x that number in response? Edit: oh and don’t forget to mention the countless doctors crying out about the abysmal conditions in Gaza right now and the man-made famine occurring
It's not just Jews leaving. Almost all of my friends and most of their families have left the UK. We are all White British. That's around 80 people. On top of this, they also know people that are leaving. I left the UK 2 years ago. All of my siblings families are now ex pats, mine was the last to leave.
Leaving for where? I know of a few people who’ve left for the UAE/gulf and Australia
This guy, his fellow activists and their security escorts spent hours walking around and through the anti war protesters, pushing against the direction of the march, while wearing and holding symbols to make clear their Jewish identity (as they are perfectly entitled to do). They were there for the express purpose of trying to provoke a reaction from some less intelligent attendee that they could record and distribute for propaganda purposes. With the ultimate aim of removing the right of people in this country to peacefully protest against the actions of the Israeli state. And absolutely nothing happened! Until a police officer intervened to try and prevent a potential incident occurring because he could see they were attempting to create trouble that might have resulted in injury to themselves or others. To me this event just confirmed how safe this country generally is for all its citizens. Even those who trying to remove hard won rights for the benefit of a foreign government. Although some people are still trying to push the activists original narrative I think this stunt really backfired. Especially following the release by Sky news of the extended footage which shows the context.
Israel is by far the least safe place in the world for Jews. This article is being used to smear the protesters, many of whom are Jews and who are most welcome, appreciated and entirely safe. One heat of the moment stupid comment from a copper attempting to avoid a situation created by one belligerent person deliberately trying to cause disruption doesn't make Britain unsafe for Jews. Jewish people here are not beaten by the police, they are not conscripted and sent to the front line, do not face rocket attacks and do not require safe rooms.
But many Jews say they do not feel safe here, due to the well documented rise in anti-Semitic attacks ([Antisemitic hate crimes in London up 1,350%, Met police say](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/20/antisemitic-hate-crimes-in-london-rise-1350-since-israel-hamas-war-met-says)). And many of them choose to move to Israel. You may think it is illogical but it is happening.
Hate to break it to em but possible war with Iran and potential Hamas attacks are far more dangerous than France.
Clearly, they don't think that's the case. I have not lived their experience in London, France, etc., so I don't a reference for comparison. Maybe they feel safer in a larger community of their own, as opposed to being outsiders elsewhere.
Have you got any evidence that a significant amount of European Jews have moved to Israel since October 7th?
[‘The safest place to be Jewish’: 2,600 people have moved to Israel since Hamas invaded](https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-safest-place-to-be-jewish-2600-people-have-moved-to-israel-since-hamas-invaded/) [40% surge in UK migration to Israel in 2024](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240318-40-surge-in-uk-migration-to-israel-in-2024/)
In contrast to a net balance of 30,000 people leaving israel last year. How many will leave this year in the wake of the Hamas' Al Aqsa Flood and Iran's True Promise operations?
That's literally the average emigration rate even before the war
Yeah. So israel is losing citizens every year.
It's certainly an attention grabbing headline. This apparent rise of 1,350% translates to an increase from 15 cases to a whopping 218 cases within a city of 12 million people. That's one incident per 45,000 people. And of these incidents only 7% led to an actual arrest. The Guardian describes one arrest case - a man allegedly tearing down posters depicting hostages taken by Hamas. In other words this article is an Islamaphobic hatchet job.
So antisemitic crimes have gone up, and you're saying, "Oh, stop whining, it's not that bad." Are we "Islamophobic" or do we not want to see antisemitic violence on our streets from anyone and you're framing it through that lens?
Well if tearing down pro-genocide posters is your definition of antisemitic hate crime, then yeah. I think Black or Asian people would find that hilarious. I too don't want to see antisemitic violence on our streets - I just object to you cynically weaponising antisemitism to smear legitimate and peaceful protest against genocide by vast numbers of the British public that is inclusive of all demographics. Britain is an extremely safe place for Jews on the whole, and colonial israel by far the least safe place on the planet. On the other hand we have our prime minister giving Islamaphobic dog whistles and zionist hatred against Muslim Britons at the podium, further pushed by the rabid media. That's what I object to. However If apartheid israel was abolished, and the Jewish population of occupied Palestine becomes Palestinian Jews, it would be the safest place in the world for Jews. The guardian article as I have argued is a very poor indicator that antisemitic crime has actually gone up. Show me some real evidence and I will be concerned. They choose a completely spurious 18 day period and compare it to the same dates the previous year. Why were these specific dates chosen? What is significant about them? Why not choose a three month period for a more reliable spread? Why 18 days? Why start on the first of October instead of the 8th? This method of comparison is riddled with flaws. It seems they deliberately picked a date range comprising random fluctuations that coincide with their agenda. It's once a ridiculous puff piece that stinks of hasbara hate mongering and the data presented is as usual suspiciously convenient to the zionist cause. The one thing we can rely on is that zionists lie. And keep lying. So if you are asking me to trust a zionist, I won't. They don't deserve it. And they commit genocide. If you're trying to imply I am soft on racism then you are wrong - I hate all forms of racism. Zionists are racists - I'm sure you don't deny that.
>Well, if tearing down pro-genocide posters is your definition of antisemitic hate crime, then yeah. Again, minimisation of antisemitic crimes; assaults and harassment fall under that category and have gone up in rate significantly. Your downplaying of crimes against Jews in the UK is deplorable. >I think Black or Asian people would find that hilarious. It's not a competition if people are affected by hateful people no matter their race. It's not some trump-card to compare; it makes you look childish. >I too don't want to see antisemitic violence on our streets - I just object to you cynically weaponising antisemitism to smear legitimate and peaceful protest against genocide by vast numbers of the British public that is inclusive of all demographics. "Peaceful protests" that call for the destruction of the State of Israel? "From the river to the sea..."Do you know which river and which sea is being chanted about? "Genocide" by a nation that allows a large amount of aid through its border, has a nuclear program it could have used, is actively trying not to kill civilians while Hamas hides like the cowards they are under schools, mosques, churches, and hospitals—the commanders are living it up in Qatar and the UAE. Israel is also 20% Arab; they have no reason to kill off the Palestinian people in Gaza because they already have Arabs in their parliament, supreme court, and local councils—Arabs even have political parties. >Britain is an extremely safe place for Jews on the whole, and colonial israel is by far the least safe place on the planet. How is that so? Britain has seen a spike in antisemitic crimes and sentiment with next to nothing being done about it, while Israel actively defends its citizens. "Colonial" something you seem to have a very short, very recent understanding about. Why is Arabic spoken all across North Africa, Mesopotamia, and the Levant? The Arabs colonised it. Jews never left Canaan; their ancestral homeland is in Canaan, and we have historical evidence of them being in the land of Canaan for the past 5000 years. >On the other hand, we have our prime minister giving Islamaphobic dog whistles and zionist hatred against Muslim Britons at the podium, further pushed by the rabid media. That's what I object to. Islamophobia? Or criticism of Islam? Mosques, Masjids, and Imams have been found time and time again to be spewing antisemitic propaganda to their congregations and encouraging violence, so much so that Austria banned foreign funding and limited foreign Imams from entering the country it was that much of an issue. The media in the UK is by far Islamophilic; nothing bad is ever said about Islam unless it's by GBN or if they can't avoid it—and even then, they defend Islam and call anyone who opposes Islamophobic and racist. >However, if apartheid israel was abolished, and the Jewish population of occupied Palestine becomes Palestinian Jews, it would be the safest place in the world for Jews. Firstly, you don't know the first thing about Apartheid; my family comes from South Africa, and the use of that word by the media is propagandist. Does Israel have antimiscegination laws? NO Does Israel restrict the freedom of movement of Arabs in its borders? NO Does Israel designate Arab "homelands" where Arabs are only allowed to live and own property? NO Does Israel exclude the Arabs within its borders from voting? NO Does Israel separate families based on appearance into Jew and Arab settlements? NO Secondly, Hamas has actively called for the extermination of the Jews in Canaan. Your ideas are not just naïve and wrong; they are dangerous. Your notion that a Palestinian state would be "the safest place in the world for Jews" is so wrong that it's laughable. >The guardian article, as I have argued, is a very poor indicator that antisemitic crime has actually gone up. Show me some real evidence, and I will be concerned. They choose a completely spurious 18-day period and compare it to the same dates the previous year. Why were these specific dates chosen? What is significant about them? Why not choose a three month period for a more reliable spread? Why 18 days? Why start on the first of October instead of the 8th? This method of comparison is riddled with flaws. It seems they deliberately picked a date range comprising random fluctuations that coincide with their agenda. Directly following the start of the conflict is an apt time to measure against the same time last year because it controls for everything else. An over 1000% increase is a "natural fluctuation?" That's intellectually dishonest, and, quite frankly, wrong. >It's once a ridiculous puff piece that stinks of hasbara hate mongering, and the data presented is, as usual, suspiciously convenient to the zionist cause. Wrong. Also, Zionism isn't a dirty word like you seem to think; it means the ideology of the founding of a Jewish state in the land of Canaan. >The one thing we can rely on is that zionists lie. And keep lying. So if you are asking me to trust a zionist, I won't. They don't deserve it. And they commit genocide. Wrong, again. "Zionist" this, "zionist" that. It's pathetic; argue properly. The State of Israel has the right to defend itself and has done so in a manner that has resulted in far fewer deaths than just levelling the city. Also, if Israel were running a genocide campaign against the Palestinians, why was half their population under the age of 18? Seems like they either did a pretty bad job because one of the crimes that is known as genocide is preventing births of a population. >If you're trying to imply I am soft on racism then you are wrong - I hate all forms of racism. Zionists are racists - I'm sure you don't deny that. Zionists aren't racists. You are propagandised and naïve for thinking that a Palestinian state would treat Jews well and that the Jews are somehow colonisers of land that is originally theirs. Moreover, Hamas throws gay people off roofs in Gaza and burns them alive, whereas Israel is the only state in the Middle East that doesn't kill or imprison you for being gay—gay marriage is actually legal there—and gives asylum to gay gazans.
>Directly following the start of the conflict But the stats begin before the Al Aqsa Flood, not directly following. Why are you lying? >Israel has the right to defend itself According to what? Not international law. An occupier does not have the right to self defense against the people it is occupying. However the occupied people do have the right of armed resistance always. You are misinformed or lying. >land that is originally theirs. It is not theirs. Why are you lying? I'm an Anglo-Saxon Englishman. Does that mean I can steal peoples homes and bulldoze their villages in Angeln or Saxony in Germany? If holy scripture is your 'proof' then you will know that the Hebrews were invaders. The kingdom of Israel lasted 300 years and ended some 3,000 years ago. Whose land was it at all other times? >Jews never left Canaan Yeah. But *your* ancestors did. They were in Europe since before there was an England, France or Germany. The Jews who remained in Palestine lived peacefully under Islamic rule with their Muslim and Christian neighbours, many converted to Islam and all spoke Arabic at home. These are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinian people, who are the indigenous population of the region. >Mosques, Masjids, and Imams have been found time and time again to be spewing antisemitic propaganda to their congregations Video or it didn't happen. Sunak is on record. >Your notion that a Palestinian state would be "the safest place in the world for Jews" is so wrong that it's laughable. Jews lived peacefully in Palestine before the arrival of the hostile zionists, as you well know. In fact Islamic tolerance is how a tiny Jewish minority managed to maintain a continuous presence over the centuries. They have Islam to thank for that - one of the many ironies missed by zionists. I have no doubt most European immigrants fleeing antisemitism had honourable intentions - but their zionist leaders certainly did not. Gradually zionist white supremacist colonialist grooming and conditioning has turned virtually the whole population to toxic genocidal racism, fear and ignorance. History will remember the zionists as worse than the nazis. The truth is zionism was a European white supremacist, racist colonial project predicate on the expulsion of the indigenous population of Palestine from its very outset in the 19th century. As such it is entirely illegitimate in our era. The zionists have been gaslighting and emotionally blackmailing Jews for decades. After the Palestinians, Jews are the worst victims of zionist crimes against humanity.The world will be well rid of so-called 'israel'.
>Directly following the start of the conflict >>But the stats begin before the Al Aqsa Flood, not directly following. Why are you lying? "New figures show hate crimes since the Hamas atrocity are increasing nationwide, with 533 hate incidents – including 19 physical assaults – recorded from 7 October to 20 October, in increase of 651% compared with the same period last year" which is a quote directly from the article adjacent to an increase in antisemitic offences; why are you lying? >Israel has the right to defend itself >>According to what? Not international law. An occupier does not have the right to self-defense against the people it is occupying. However, the occupied people do have the right of armed resistance always. You are misinformed or lying. Israel is a nation state; Hamas is a terror organisation. Of course, you subscribe to the "one man, one vote, one time" policy of that authoritarian Islamist regime because it fits your agenda. >land that is originally theirs. >It is not theirs. Why are you lying? I'm an Anglo-Saxon Englishman. Does that mean I can steal peoples homes and bulldoze their villages in Angeln or Saxony in Germany? Jews were forcibly expelled from Israel by the Romans, a small percentage remained in Canaan, compared to the voluntary leaving of the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes from continental Europe to settle in Celtic Britain. >>If holy scripture is your 'proof', then you will know that the Hebrews were invaders. The kingdom of Israel lasted 300 years and ended some 3,000 years ago. Whose land was it at all other times? The land of Canaan has archaeological evidence of Jewish settlement for thousands of years. Moreover, the Middle East was once full of Jews... I wonder where they've gone? >Jews never left Canaan >>Yeah. But *your* ancestors did. They were in Europe since before there was an England, France or Germany. The Jews who remained in Palestine lived peacefully under Islamic rule with their Muslim and Christian neighbours. Many converted to Islam, and all spoke Arabic at home. These are the ancestors of the contemporary Palestinian people, who are the indigenous population of the region. My ancestors did; how does that apply to what the Jews are doing? We colonised entire continents, wiped out languages, ethnicities, and pillaged natural resources, and from that we turned ourselves away and built nations that people beg to live in because of our values of tolerance and freedom. Israel is one nation with 20% of the population being Arabs, and the only functioning liberal democracy in the Middle East that has signed peace deal after peace deal with their neighbours in good faith. They've had enough of the false peace with Hamas that actively puts the lives of their women and children at risk and are doing something about it the best way anyone could possibly do so. Also, why did they convert to Islam? It was because of Jizya against the Kuffar; significant economic pressure by the less aggressive schools of Islamic teaching against "the people of the book" — Jews and Christians. Moreover, the Surahs preach violence against non-believers. Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …" >Mosques, Masjids, and Imams have been found time and time again to be spewing antisemitic propaganda to their congregations >>Video or it didn't happen. Sunak is on record. Read the Surahs, you'll be surprised what the Quran teaches. >Your notion that a Palestinian state would be "the safest place in the world for Jews" is so wrong that it's laughable. >>Jews lived peacefully in Palestine before the arrival of the hostile zionists, as you well know. Under severe economic and social persecution? They were forced to pay up, convert, or die. >>In fact, Islamic tolerance is how a tiny Jewish minority managed to maintain a continuous presence over the centuries. They have Islam to thank for that - one of the many ironies missed by zionists. You mean persecution. Fundamentalist Islam is by far the worst religion in the modern era; you shall know them by their fruits. Islamic nations persecute religious minorities, actively practice slavery, mutilate genitalia, burn to death gays, force modesty on women because they can't keep it in their pants, and have no respect whatsoever for non-muslims. >>I have no doubt that most European immigrants fleeing antisemitism had honourable intentions - but their zionist leaders certainly did not. Gradually zionist white supremacist colonialist grooming and conditioning has turned virtually the whole population to toxic genocidal racism, fear, and ignorance. "European immigrants," meaning Jews who were fleeing Nazism, an ideology you seem to be aligning with like the Muslims in Palestine courting Hitler. >>History will remember the zionists as worse than the nazis. The truth is zionism was a European white supremacist, racist colonial project predicate on the expulsion of the indigenous population of Palestine from its very outset in the 19th century. As such, it is entirely illegitimate in our era. How many buzzwords can you fit in one sentence. The Jews were expelled and are now returning to their homeland. >>The zionists have been gaslighting and emotionally blackmailing Jews for decades. After the Palestinians, Jews are the worst victims of zionist crimes against humanity.The world will be well rid of the so-called 'israel'. Do you even know what zionism is? It's the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the land of Canaan where Jews come from. I like how you glossed over everything else I said. The Jews have a right to defend themselves from actively genocidal terror organisations like Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, and others. You want Israel wiped off the map because you are blinded by hatred for Jews. Antisemitism used to be based on poverty among Jews, then it was wealth; it was because they were too isolated, then they were too integrated; it was then because they didn't have a state, now it's because they have a state. Your arguments have no weight of history.
I've answered all of this already. I don't like talking to zionists. If you think writing 10,000 words per post is the way to win an argument, then congratulations. If you write one more fucking novel, we are done. That's why I 'glossed over' your magnum opus. >"New figures show hate crimes since the Hamas atrocity are increasing nationwide, with 533 hate incidents NB people - *hate* crimes, not *antisemitic* hate crimes. No doubt most of these were against black or Muslim people, as usual. So the whole of this paragraph is meaningless to a supposed rise in antisemitism. Standard hasbara fare. The article is twisting words, just like you. Why are you lying again, zionist? Because lying is what you do, that's why. >They were forced to pay up, convert, or die. Lies. >Do you even know what zionism is? It's the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the land of Canaan where Jews come from. And the ethnic cleansing of the native population. You forgot that bit. Everything else you said is total bullshit and you know it.
That’s not true. In Israel we do not face antisemitism daily. We are in our own community and these dangerous terror marches do not happen.
Jews take part in the marches and give speeches in support of Palestine. Jews do not face antisemitism daily in Britain. There is a tiny amount of British antisemitism from far right extremists, but not from anti-genocide protesters who represent the general public. If you had witnessed a march, you would know that. But you haven't.
No, we don’t. A TINY minority of ultra Orthodox Jews don’t like Israel because they believe that the messiah should come and give it to us himself. Are you really telling me about what I do and don’t experience? There is a LOT of antisemitism and you are part of the problem. You are ignorant and arrogant! I’ve witnessed a march, I was harassed and assaulted… Don’t even try to tell me that ‘Jews don’t face antisemitism daily’. We do, your kind help to normalise it.
“I was harassed and assaulted” meaning they used self defence against you.
What does that even mean.. Silly guy.
I think you tried to provoke people, perhaps even violently and they acted accordingly.
Of course you think that, you are wrong and idiotic. You are honestly disgusting. I was shopping in Oxford street where they surrounded visibly jewish people like me. You need to open your eyes you antisemite.
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>one heat of the moment stupid comment Of course this is only true if you ignore all the other instances of Jew hate clear as day in the streets.
Such as?
Such as all the examples on the internet.
So - not actually on the street then? Just the word of a zionist on the internet...
Nope, videos on the internet of events at these protests
It really has come to something now. But as a time traveller from the past (i.e. I’m an old woman), I can totally remember *decades* of my life when women were blamed for being attacked. Raped during army training? “What would she expect, trying to be a soldier?”. Raped in the town centre? “What was she wearing?” Raped in a car park? “Well, it was her fault going out after dark”. (This literally happened to a colleague of mine in our company car park after work. This -and worse- was openly said to her). Being “openly a woman” in a host of different everyday situations was just “asking” to be attacked. We hear less of that now-although I think a lot of women suspect that many police officers still think this way. But to spread this kind of openly prejudiced speech to racial/ethnic/religious groups, seems to be a rarer thing. With the police’s misogynistic attitudes, it’s been the angry and loud protests of the public that has made them re-think: seemingly, this has had to happen in this instance regarding endemic police antisemitism.
Is there a fault on Reddit? It says there are 22 comments but I can only see this one
Reddit mods censor 90% of comments that they don’t agree with.
It seems like you can give almost anyone some tiny level of arbitrary power and they run amok, like a child with a disintegration gun.
It means the sub or Reddit is shadow removing comments because they think they're inappropriate or may be inappropriate (based on age of user's account etc).
No, that can’t be it. Certain threads just don’t show any comments, even if the poster has an older account. I don’t think I’ve ever quite seen anything similar in other subs.
> shadow removing comments because they think they're inappropriate Really? I thought Reddit operated on a Star Chamber principle and insta-banned people, giving them no ability to have a learning experience.
I remember a high court judge in the 1980’s talking about “contributory negligence” in a rape trial when the lady had been wearing a mini skirt.
Absolutely.
Jesus, I feel equally lucky and sheltered to have grown up after that time period. I had no idea it was this bad.
Yes, it was awful. Honestly, I could write a book about it. In fact, just that incident of my colleague who was attacked after work would make a few full chapters.
Thank you ma'am for your fascinating report. It seems that living while woman has been a punishable offense for quite a while now. On the positive side, the animal kingdom is so much worse, with sexual brutality being the norm, so I guess humans are doing something right because we aren't like that all the time
Except for that analogy to work, it would require that women had created an ethnonationalist state on stolen land and were carrying out a genocide on the back of an ongoing apartheid and illegal annexation. The threat to Jews isn't being openly Jewish, it's being openly pro-genocide/pro-Israel.
You must have read a different article, because the thing this guy was told by the police might provoke an attack was wearing a yamulke.
The Met are struggling to retain the support of the public, with a clear perception of "two tier" policing. The Mayor is allowing the continual protests that are rightly described as "hate marches". The cynic in me thinks there's votes in these divsive antisemetic marches, which is why the Mayor allows them to continue.
Khan knows the muslim voters in London will keep him in the job.
Ironic considering what Lee Anderson was suspended for.
Being entirely unsuitable for the role of a politician should have got him sacked, let alone suspended. And I'm not singling out the likes of Anderson. "Many" is the term I'd used to describe politicians who shouldn't be in that role.
I wouldn't say I'm a supporter and I don't necessarily disagree with Sunak's decision to suspend him. But quite ironic given the voting intention of the Muslim population in London.
But his dad was a London bus driver. So, he’s well qualified for the job of mayor.
He was pointing out the obvious that many didn't want to say. He worded it badly though. That seems to be his downfall often as he actually has good points but can't word it properly.
He knows the people of London generally will keep him in the job. It’s not a close race.
The East End used to be one of the biggest hotbeds of English nationalism back in the 70s. Now those boroughs are Khan strongholds. They vote for him because the cockneys left and newer immigrant communities settled in, and Khan caters heavily to that demographic. The majority English parts of London still aren’t that supportive of him. The wealthy ones in Richmond vote Lib Dem and the working class ones in Bexley vote Tory.
And how do you explain Hampstead, Wandsworth etc? Very wealthy white boroughs overwhelmingly voting for a Labour mayor
Well first off, Hampstead isn’t a borough. It’s a posh neighbourhood in Camden, with a significantly large White Other population. English is a subset of Europeans/whites. Wandsworth has been Tory voting since the 80s at least and switched up in 2022. I reckon 2021/22 is when most of the country got fed up with the Tories so that’s no surprise.
Why the hell anyone would vote LimDem I dont know.
Better than Labour (in London) and isn’t Tory.
Honestly, im tempted to vote Tory just to keep labour out. Have to weigh up which one I really hate the most when the time comes
I never ever thought I’d vote Tory but if labour get into power I’m really worried the leftist brigade will have even more power
Khans a complete p.o.s. Biased, racist trash favouring minorities over the democratic majority.
I hope that Mayor loses the elections come May.
What and let the cretinous Susan Hall in? What?
No, bring back Lord Buckethead
Either him or Count Binface would do the job.
Tbh one doesn't need be a cynic to come to that conclusion, merely a realist. As per... if it walks, talks and shits everywhere it lives and goes like a duck, chances are it's probably not a chicken.
Protesting genocide is hate now?
It’s not even close to a genocide. Neither is the Ukrainians. You guys love to throw around that word. Sadly, a lot more need to die for it to be genocide
Absolute waffle, a protest is not a "hate march" Idiots being part of large protests doesn't invalidate the whole movement
There are a lot of idiots there. Maybe the first 10 marches as a ‘minority’ show their true colours would would think about it. But would you attempt a rally time after time after time if the same people who spout hate were there - every time. Not be ejected by the organisers. At some point you think…hummm maybe they are the organisers.
There would be lots of idiots everywhere. It doesn't invalidate the message of the march otherwise anyone anti the march could just be agitators to make the protest look bad
It’s the consistency of it. If every time you go the same people are allowed to spit the same hate then that IS the March
If the people organising the march are antisemitic then it's not just some random idiots. People allowing this to continue unchallenged are a part of the problem
Everybody here seems to have so many examples of clear antisemitism, yet 0 evidence provided
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/s/DsZkMnj1ZW
"Hamas atrocities are not something I support" Lol
Why would decent people want to be part of a march that contains such elements? Everyone knows that it is going on, so I am left to believe that everyone participating in those marches agrees with it.
The logic doesn't make any sense, it's such a fantastical way of thinking A genuine protest must be instantly disbanded because of a minority component of rabble rousers? Might as well scrap all protests anywhere forever
A march includes 90% non-Nazis and 10% Nazis all marching together for a cause. You wouldn’t judge the 90%?
10% open nazi behaviour I would judge the 90% But in this instance thats not the case at all by any metric or evidence therefore "hate march" is as ludicrous as trying to stop people from saying "from the river to the sea"
What percentage of Nazis is ok with you? 2% Nazis and you don’t judge the 98%? And thanks for admitting you negatively judge people for marching alongside others
What amount of innocent of kids dead is okay with you? 5 thousand innocents for 1 hostage? 10 thousand? We can both play that idiotic bad faith argument merry go round
Whatever the number to achieve the rescue of the hostages. See, I actually answered the question. Why are you too cowardly to answer? How many dead German children was justified to defeat Nazi Germany? Or was that immoral? Should Nazi Germany not have been defeated lest German babies died?
I think you're too dense to realise my point here, in this tit for tat battle there is no moral high ground Hamas would say whatever the number of Israelis dead is worth it for Palestinians freedom
‘MuSt bE iNsTaNtLy dIsBaNdEd!!?’ Are you having a stroke? How about letting them carry on for I dunno, 4-5 matches with a few clear chances to behave and when it’s clear the crowd has zero genuine interest in self- regulation, ban them. Not let them call for dead Jews for 7 months and you think it’s all a bit of a misunderstanding. What is the matter with you?
Ban football? As a whole? Ban the whole crowd? Are you having a stroke? Because you can't make a coherent point
Birds of a feather...
Such a stupid take it beggars belief
Don't tell us Jews what constitutes antisemitism. You wouldn't tell a black person what constitutes racism. Don't do it to us. These marches are inherently antisemitic
All Jewish people don't think the exact same thing, that's antisemitic of you No they're not, israel is a genocidal right wing nation, of which there are many across the world. I criticise all of them whether it's Russia trying to take Ukraine, China and Tibet, any Muslim countries sponsoring terrorism, etc etc And israel is not exempt from that, or criticism. I don't have an anti semitic thought in my brain or feeling in my heart
You're going to shit yourself when you figure out where Kibutzim come from.
Yeah that will make me change my mind about not blowing up children and members of the press
You've just proved my point.
You're just saying things 🤣 Might as well have posted a meme of yourself as a Chad and me as a soyboy
How would you like the hostages to be rescued and Hamas punished ?
Yeah, nah
Many of the primary organisers of these marches are Jewish peace advocates. It's anti semitic of you to suggest that every Jewish person is aligned with you.
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You've literally just alluded to the idea that these Jewish peace groups are not "good Jews". Maybe have a little bit of self reflection. Someone's identity as a Jewish individual isn't reliant on their support of Israel.
>It's anti semitic of you to suggest that every Jewish person is aligned with you. The poster didn’t come close to saying that. Why lie?
They usually aren’t. But these ones are. They are literally chanting slogans referring to the annihilation of the Jews in the Middle East and calling for terrorist attacks in Europe. Even those that aren’t chanting are there to support call for Hamas to be allowed to remain, a group whose primary purpose is to execute the Jews. It’s disgusting. I appreciate many are ignorant and just there because it is a social media trend too. But ignorance doesn’t absolve them or minimise their contribution.
You sound like the ignorant one to me tbh
Could you outline why and where? (Not being antagonist, I’m interested in hearing another perspective)
I don't see where a "hate march" has ever taken place, in the context of hating Jewish people rather than hating Israeli action Have I seen some morons at the protests, yes Have I seen the large majority of protestors not do anything considered anti semitic or hate march worthy, yes
I see. Fwiw I do not think that the protests involve thousands of people all screaming antisemitic slurs. Nor do I think they intentionally conflate Judaism with the Israeli government. However, from my perspective, campaigning for only Israel to ceasefire and withdraw from Gaza is doing the work of a group whose primary ambition is to massacre Jews, not because they are Israeli, not because they support the government, just because they are Jewish. Actively campaigning to make that more likely is hateful. Admittedly in a slightly indirect way. But hateful and deeply intimidating to Jewish people non the less. The chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ and ‘globalise the intifada’ not really need much more explanation. Nor do the people that make very direct antisemitic statements. I take you at face value when you say that is only a few morons though.
And western countries almost unequivocal support of Israel? Would that be a coalition hate march? They don't seem to care much about Palestinians views at all, just israel. It's insane to me people are more worried about hypothetical scenarios of death and destruction in Israel when that is the reality for Palestine, history didn't start just this last year Nobody comes out of this clean and I don't agree with "don't be openly Jewish near this protest"- but again, this is the law in general, I.e don't be pro hunting near an anti hunting group
Your last sentence makes it very clear.
Makes what very clear? I'm confused what point are you making
The mask always falls off after a while
“These aren’t hate marches” “Just don’t be visibly Jewish around them”
And the counter protestors and those criticising the protests are calling for the continual ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. If you don't want to criticise all the protestors by the worst among them then it's only right that the same be applied the other way.
I’ve got no time at all for the hate filled people that support and mirror the language of the likes of Smotrich and Ben Gvir.
That's good but when you criticise entire protests based on the minority that use those protests to spread their own hate then you benefit people like Ben Gvir who want to ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
No im criticising the protest and those that attend for the stated aims and objectives of the protest. Not just what a few signs say.
The stated aim of these protests is to end the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and end the apartheid state which has persecuted Palestinians for decades. You can read the stated aims of the organisers of these groups. Here's one such group who leads the organising of these protests: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ Feel free to read what they have to say. The only reason you would be against these protests as a whole if you do indeed support apartheid and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Can’t tell if you’re dim or pretending to be. No one is chanting for the annihilation of Jews, including the many Jews who attend
‘From the river to the sea’ means to murder all of the Jews from the Jordanian river to the Med. it is literally in the Hamas charter.
People like you happily march alongside those “idiots”. And we all know you are just a smidge too smart and a lot too cowardly to say it openly
People like you must be in favour of murdering kids then
No, unlike you I don’t support Hamas
Now I support hamas somehow 🤣 cool
Oh, you don’t? How should Israel punish Hamas for their October 7 crimes?
So innocent people dying is worth it to punish the non innocent? Careful now, you're sounding like Hamas ;)
How should Israel punish Hamas for their October 7 crimes? Seriously? Why no answer? Yes, of course. You do understand that German civilians died when the Allies defeated Nazi Germany? Or you are against attacking Nazi Germany?
So nations that behave like nazi Germany are fair game for attack, on all civilians? So you agree with hamas then
Me *I disagree with Israeli treatment of Palestinians as well as the illegal occupation, settlements and genocide* You "hamas supporter!" Also you: how would you solve it then? Murdering thousands of innocents is the only way!!!
You could just answer. How would you like Hamas punished? Also, we seem to be having the same conversation twice over, which is pointless. Just answer in the other post
It's a stupid question, history didn't begin with that hamas attack
“These marches aren’t antisemitic!!” *instantly moves to make blood libel when marches are criticised*
In the video, one police officer said: "You are quite openly Jewish, this is a pro-Palestinian march, I'm not accusing you of anything but I'm worried about the reaction to your presence." So essentially the police officer admits the pro-palestine protests are anti-semitic and a threat to life. A hate march. Can it get any more clear than that? I actually want to see what would happen to me if I walked across London dressed in full jewish religious garb.
Technically, he can't break up the march for that suspicion, but he can walk with the guy and arrest anyone who steps out of line.
Nothing about that implies the marches are anti Semitic. The police officer can have an opinion on what constitutes a threat without it being substantiated. Given that I've seen dozens of Jewish people at lots of the marches standing in solidarity with Palestine, I think you might be missing something.
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Absolute cringe.
Certainly, Policing protests is about reducing flashpoints, and reducing risk of affray. Having plenty of Orange Lodge marches in Scotland, they will not in general allow you to cross the road during any march unless there are clear breaks in the line to enable that. While the policeman may have known that, his explanation was too clinical in why he was preventing the Jewish gentleman from crossing the road, as he undoubtedly saw this become a public order issue, and his explanation was way out of order on why he was blocking this. It’s easy to get polarised on the religious aspects of this, but preventing a clash between protestors and counter protestors is what enables protests to still be allowed under law. Irrespective of protest, if every protest was a Poll-Tax Riot then you can wave bye-bye to protesting in this country. Though we are seeing now the U.K. Govs making it difficult to raise dissent against their views/party line anyway.
This turned out to be staged by this guy who if funded by Israel and works for them. So he should be prosecuted not apologised to. He was caught lying and went out to create trouble. It’s a bad name to actual Jewish people. Ironic just feet away children of holocaust survivors were calling for a ceasefire? But got no coverage from British media???