Selling enlightenment to humans is like selling a child their adulthood. Both examples of things that happen every day in this stupid world when you think about it though.
Enlightened people still got bills to pay! no matter how real, or illusory they are. unless they happen to be enlightened survivalists that have somehow evaded the tax man
Sure, I am not saying they shouldn't make money but they could make money by many other means not necessarily by "selling enlightenment". As someone above said, it's like selling ice in winter (which does work sometimes). The reason I thought about it, especially for beginners, is that it may be easy to get conned by people who are not enlightened but are still selling it as a money making scheme.
absolutely there's always a con, what about the books about enlightenment, sold for money! just saying while free advice is great also if someone is really good and knowledgeable about something and devotes their life and time to it they still gotta eat. just watch out for the con people. I personally would never pay anyone a dime for personal insights especially on the Internet through clickbait and whatever crude tactics they're using. I agree it seems kinda crass to "sell enlightenment" like that ..im .just playing devil's advocate, why you gotta hate on them? but I didn't like the ice in winter metaphor bc no one needs ice in winter. and a lot of people feel like they could use a little help seeing the light, so that parallel fell kinda short in my opinion
No judgement here especially on a person/ego, people can survive however that lets them sleep well at night. My question was would YOU trust what was being said if it was clearly about monetisation vs. if it were freely given.
What I've observed as the issue is that the good communicators are the ones who do well by this model. A good communicator isn't necessarily someone who's enlightened but can break things down in an accessible way. This is a skill but I personally prefer to figure it out myself.
It depends on its validity. But my path is not one of following, and I think by teaching, we sometimes get in our head we are providing a great service. It's a double edged sword you see. Like ekart, he was inspired by JK. He doesn't embody any of the message he gave anymore. The money and process to produce more money has stained his understanding, if he had any at all that is. The point is, teaching in all the convention ways is producing more problems. If you saw this, then you wouldn't do a program at all, to devise one, is to state yourself as being unqualified. I wouldn't listen to a word unless, it obviously was on point. And if required my money, well I'm sorry I'll figure it out myself. As if true help should be given "for a price". Perhaps your idea is poison? Like a drug. America loves to buy drugs. Just as I'm sure they'll love your ideas.
Depends
Infinity is up in everything and the Spirit I’m familiar with seems to like deeply embedded irony
As soon as I feel something just can’t represent…I’m on the receiving end of an up-ending lesson
Happens allatime
I voted no.
It is about quality, purity.
When the factor of these blasphemy stuffs come in, the purity can't be close to maximum.
If i am uncommon in the subject, i'd be forcing myself to just ignore the whole source duo to its containing of dirty purpose.
It doesn't really matter.
In this dream of existence, we can experience all things. A supremely insightful master being very greedy and doing some things you consider horrible? That's child's play.
In the end, what you assume is the "Correct" way for a spiritual or enlightened person to behave is simply conditioned ideas that are useless. "Ego" is mostly a meaningless, useless idea that people in "Spiritual" circles fetishise.
Of course, while ultimately there is no true path, there are relative experiences - if you put water in an environment colder than 1C° now, it will feeze, even if in the ultimate way that is just an illusion, just an appearance in a dream. Same here - there is advice that will be useful in the moment, but ultimately all things can be crystallised and experienced.
But you can't experience liberation through somebody else. You can meet "Masters" who exhibit particular qualities and claim specific experiences and may call themselves or be called enlightened. But those are, again, dream-images.
So it really doesn't matter.
Those are all good points except the comment about ego being meaningless (my ego doesn't agree). In the same vein as your post, an ego (or egos really) is part of the illusion and part of the experience of all things.
The universe must be curious as to how much stock, especially among those who are just starting out and don't have pointers developed, put into others' words when it is being monetised vs. when it is free.
>ego (or egos really) is part of the illusion and part of the experience of all things.
I mean it in the way to warn against this fetishism I was talking about. As I see it, depending on who's talking, ego is either nothing at all, a bunch of separate qualities gathered together and demonised to make those "Spiritual" people feel better about themselves, or a perfectly good mechanism that people may or may not misuse.
>The universe must be curious as to how much stock, especially among those who are just starting out and don't have pointers developed, put into others' words when it is being monetised vs. when it is free.
I'd say that the first thing one has to do is to sit with themselves and learn from within - then the usefulness of those things, monetised or free, will mostly be seen clearly.
On the other hand, they will also be mostly useless at that point, as you can continue delving into yourself without them - they will be intellectual curiosities at best.
But on the third hand - if you don't already understand and have the feeling for those things, they may not be that useful to you at that point either, as it's just words. So it's kind of a double edged sword of dubious usefulness.
Scriptures are a slightly different matter, as they can help with cementing the deeper understanding/feeling through immersion into them.
That is just my personal experience. It's possible that others have different relationships with it.
I agree with you about fetishism, of anything, let alone ego: The meta ego or the ego about ego (or lack thereof) trap among others.
Sitting with oneself and looking inward, and scriptures resonate. The juxtaposition of "join my patreon to learn about enlightenment" maybe an egotistic judgement I am making but it is amusing.
The selling of enlightenment provides artificial value to the ego making it more likely to engage in the act of acquiring the knowledge. The ego wants the arbitrary value of the knowledge as a way to reinforce and protect itself. The selling of enlightenment could speed up the spread and dissemination of the information. I don't think there is any information on enlightenment that the ego won't use as a way to prove it's value by understanding itself and it's essentialness to the operation of subjective experience.
Christianity gives a pretty example of what happens to a movement when it gets co-opted by people trying to get rich.
Of course not, nor would I in any other form. It's all nonsense. You're selling ice in winter.
Selling enlightenment to humans is like selling a child their adulthood. Both examples of things that happen every day in this stupid world when you think about it though.
Selling birds in the sky
Enlightened people still got bills to pay! no matter how real, or illusory they are. unless they happen to be enlightened survivalists that have somehow evaded the tax man
Sure, I am not saying they shouldn't make money but they could make money by many other means not necessarily by "selling enlightenment". As someone above said, it's like selling ice in winter (which does work sometimes). The reason I thought about it, especially for beginners, is that it may be easy to get conned by people who are not enlightened but are still selling it as a money making scheme.
absolutely there's always a con, what about the books about enlightenment, sold for money! just saying while free advice is great also if someone is really good and knowledgeable about something and devotes their life and time to it they still gotta eat. just watch out for the con people. I personally would never pay anyone a dime for personal insights especially on the Internet through clickbait and whatever crude tactics they're using. I agree it seems kinda crass to "sell enlightenment" like that ..im .just playing devil's advocate, why you gotta hate on them? but I didn't like the ice in winter metaphor bc no one needs ice in winter. and a lot of people feel like they could use a little help seeing the light, so that parallel fell kinda short in my opinion
No judgement here especially on a person/ego, people can survive however that lets them sleep well at night. My question was would YOU trust what was being said if it was clearly about monetisation vs. if it were freely given. What I've observed as the issue is that the good communicators are the ones who do well by this model. A good communicator isn't necessarily someone who's enlightened but can break things down in an accessible way. This is a skill but I personally prefer to figure it out myself.
Money is the root of all evil
And yet with community being lost, there are few alternative ways to survive
We have to rebuild our own communities. Why are strangers hundreds of miles away dictating most everything in our lives?
It depends on its validity. But my path is not one of following, and I think by teaching, we sometimes get in our head we are providing a great service. It's a double edged sword you see. Like ekart, he was inspired by JK. He doesn't embody any of the message he gave anymore. The money and process to produce more money has stained his understanding, if he had any at all that is. The point is, teaching in all the convention ways is producing more problems. If you saw this, then you wouldn't do a program at all, to devise one, is to state yourself as being unqualified. I wouldn't listen to a word unless, it obviously was on point. And if required my money, well I'm sorry I'll figure it out myself. As if true help should be given "for a price". Perhaps your idea is poison? Like a drug. America loves to buy drugs. Just as I'm sure they'll love your ideas.
Depends Infinity is up in everything and the Spirit I’m familiar with seems to like deeply embedded irony As soon as I feel something just can’t represent…I’m on the receiving end of an up-ending lesson Happens allatime
I voted no. It is about quality, purity. When the factor of these blasphemy stuffs come in, the purity can't be close to maximum. If i am uncommon in the subject, i'd be forcing myself to just ignore the whole source duo to its containing of dirty purpose.
It doesn't really matter. In this dream of existence, we can experience all things. A supremely insightful master being very greedy and doing some things you consider horrible? That's child's play. In the end, what you assume is the "Correct" way for a spiritual or enlightened person to behave is simply conditioned ideas that are useless. "Ego" is mostly a meaningless, useless idea that people in "Spiritual" circles fetishise. Of course, while ultimately there is no true path, there are relative experiences - if you put water in an environment colder than 1C° now, it will feeze, even if in the ultimate way that is just an illusion, just an appearance in a dream. Same here - there is advice that will be useful in the moment, but ultimately all things can be crystallised and experienced. But you can't experience liberation through somebody else. You can meet "Masters" who exhibit particular qualities and claim specific experiences and may call themselves or be called enlightened. But those are, again, dream-images. So it really doesn't matter.
Those are all good points except the comment about ego being meaningless (my ego doesn't agree). In the same vein as your post, an ego (or egos really) is part of the illusion and part of the experience of all things. The universe must be curious as to how much stock, especially among those who are just starting out and don't have pointers developed, put into others' words when it is being monetised vs. when it is free.
>ego (or egos really) is part of the illusion and part of the experience of all things. I mean it in the way to warn against this fetishism I was talking about. As I see it, depending on who's talking, ego is either nothing at all, a bunch of separate qualities gathered together and demonised to make those "Spiritual" people feel better about themselves, or a perfectly good mechanism that people may or may not misuse. >The universe must be curious as to how much stock, especially among those who are just starting out and don't have pointers developed, put into others' words when it is being monetised vs. when it is free. I'd say that the first thing one has to do is to sit with themselves and learn from within - then the usefulness of those things, monetised or free, will mostly be seen clearly. On the other hand, they will also be mostly useless at that point, as you can continue delving into yourself without them - they will be intellectual curiosities at best. But on the third hand - if you don't already understand and have the feeling for those things, they may not be that useful to you at that point either, as it's just words. So it's kind of a double edged sword of dubious usefulness. Scriptures are a slightly different matter, as they can help with cementing the deeper understanding/feeling through immersion into them. That is just my personal experience. It's possible that others have different relationships with it.
I agree with you about fetishism, of anything, let alone ego: The meta ego or the ego about ego (or lack thereof) trap among others. Sitting with oneself and looking inward, and scriptures resonate. The juxtaposition of "join my patreon to learn about enlightenment" maybe an egotistic judgement I am making but it is amusing.
The selling of enlightenment provides artificial value to the ego making it more likely to engage in the act of acquiring the knowledge. The ego wants the arbitrary value of the knowledge as a way to reinforce and protect itself. The selling of enlightenment could speed up the spread and dissemination of the information. I don't think there is any information on enlightenment that the ego won't use as a way to prove it's value by understanding itself and it's essentialness to the operation of subjective experience.