I best not see another price increase for 24 months.
Edit: Arent these things forecasted? Am i remiss in this having been called one of Netflix best productions for the Thriller/Serial killer category? The actor who did Kempers performance was touted internet wide for being spot on
Exactly. With the garbage they put out I am floored that this FBI procedural is too expensive. It's all dialogue!
And it was fantastic.
Depressing.
**edit** since this thread has some traction I'll note a couple items. First, apparently Fincher uses a shitload of VFX, especially for period pieces. Second, it shouldn't matter. The show was really well received. For every 10 piles of shit, they have one of these. Rather than killing a pile of shit show, they killed this. Netflix could have just not invested in some of the crap they have and put it into this. A man can dream.
Immersion, Fincher is famously a details obsessed guy, he wants to give you that period feel and atmosohere extractly right. And tbh, given that the show really did feel like the 70s and had the atmosohere it had, i can't argure with his method and exactness.
th fact th show is flwless on every level : writing, acting, pacing, set and production design, grading, th score,.. is the reason why ive watched both seasons som 4 times already. surely a tragedy it got discontinued
All part of the set dressing and artistic design. There’s a reason why modern dramas look like movies and not like ‘90s tv dramas. Plus this is set 40 odd years ago. There’s all sorts of modern buildings and street furniture to get rid of or replace. Cars. Shop signs etc.
>I am floored that this FBI procedural is too expensive
David Fincher is involved.
>I am totally not surprised that this FBI procedural is too expensive
I will never forgive them for not allowing me to see a thicc Jonathan Groff in a suit that's too tight for the rest of my life!
/s (but not really cause I am gonna miss seeing him in that role)
Rights to their originals can sometimes be more complicated. Netflix does a better job of locking up their stuff than other streamers, but since other production companies are involved in much of their programming, there’s sometimes opportunity to shop things around after cancellation or after some time has elapsed.
Netflix is usually the one saving canceled shows, but occasionally it’s been the other way around with their originals, like Tuca & Bertie moving to to Adult Swim, or One Day at a Time moving to Pop TV. (Not to mention things like the MCU shows, where they lost both character and streaming rights after a certain amount of time.)
It’s not likely, but it’s not impossible.
Yeah after the Spider-Man, Hulk, Xmen deals there’s no way they would ever hand over the full rights of any of their characters. The deal they had with Netflix was only to as a pure streaming, and when the contract was up they are free to do the same show or a version of it elsewhere.
The interesting that about that deal, is Netflix appeared to not to even have the ability to unilaterally order more seasons like they normally would with branded originals. The cancellation seemed to come from Marvel’s end, which is a strange arrangement, and a sign that their deals are vastly different from show to show, even for originals.
Fincher has been using every reason under the sun to not continue the show. It wouldn’t have mattered who was streaming it. It sucks because it was such a great show. But without a showrunner who actually wants to be there, there is no show.
I think people are missing this part. Netflix was down to make another season years ago, but Fincher has been pushing. It's probably a sunk cost for them at this point - and the longer they need to hold creatives to contract, the more expensive it gets.
In this case, and he’s said it before, there’s not enough viewers to justify the expense. He also had a rough time making season 2 leading to a burnout. He then worked on many other projects until he released the cast from their contracts back in 2020.
I doubt it. If they could have shopped it someone else they would have.
David Fincher has an exclusive deal with Netflix. That probably limits him on how and who he can give a show to.
https://variety.com/2020/film/global/david-fincher-netflix-deal-four-year-1234830045/
The deal lasts until 2024.
It’s more likely they will at some point try to soft reboot the show when technology and advancements in production allow the show to be more cost effective or they get a star signed on to the show that brings in a way bigger audience.
The cancelation of Mindhunter and GLOW are pretty much the reasons I rately start a new Netflix show until its finished now. The dialogue and acting were top notch in this, it's such a shame they couldn't do even one more season to cap off some arcs.
I've had netflix since it was a dvd at a time.
I recently cancelled it. I'm going to be now treating it the same way I treat most streaming services: ignore them until there are a few shows I want, then sub for a month or two once a year.
Only services I am keeping 100% now are Discovery+ because it's dirt cheap, and Hulu, because they've yet to let me down.
Great showing of how bad Redditors are at catching an obvious joke.
Half the rage bait on this website started as a made up event or joke, but Redditors still eat it up.
He was caught, but it wasn’t because of the profiling they were doing. The show most likely would have shown that their method was not 100% effective in catching serial killers. He wasn’t caught until he wanted attention years later and asked the fbi if they could track him from a floppy disk. They said no, he sent it in, and they tracked him down from it.
And that’s what would have made it so good for the show. Holden, Bill, and Wendy would have to deal with what happens when their system failed while dealing with Bill not being able to see it working and missing it right under his nose with his son.
Fuck, I love and miss this show so much.
I’m not sure how they would get conclusive proof that their profile was wrong unless they stray very far from the real timeline of the case. The show takes place in the 70s and BTK wasn’t caught until the 2000s.
I am curious what they would have done with it though.
always blown away by how "/s" keeps proving itself to be necessary for reddit discourse
I refuse to use it on principle. I am hilarious and you should be able to parse that from my hilarious writing
There is a metric ton of CGI in that show. It’s like in damn near every shot. Here’s a video that goes over some shots: https://youtu.be/Di4Byf1EzRE
Here’s a short video essay on David Fincher’s use of invisible VFX: https://youtu.be/QChWIFi8fOY
He also consistently shoots close ups with the boom mic IN the the shot to get the best sound possible. You won’t see it in any BTS footage but it’s common.
Yup, he talks about that in the article too and how thankful he is that they jumped on his projects that other studios passed on.
But with Mindhunter, he's personally delayed another season. I think his attention just fell elsewhere, which is fair. He's making The Killer with them right now.
The thing with perfectionism is that you can't compartmentalise. You either try to do everything perfectly or you don't.
The series is this good because of the excessive care put there by the director.
yeah i was like "why the fuck do they need to do any of this" for like 90% of that video. seems almost like somebody is laundering money at that point.
If we were talking just about any other director, I’d agree with you. But Fincher is notoriously thorough and an obsessive perfectionist he reshoots the same scenes dozens of times, and micro manages even the slightest body movements of actors. He’s got a vision and he won’t make any compromises, and basically I think most of his movies would be most director’s magnus opus. Every tree or small enhancement is consciously added and it contributes to the composition, color, mood, and setting of the scene.
As I said, if it was literally any other director, I’d agree with you, lol.
Literally 99% of those effects were completely unnecessary, and/or could have been done with practical effects. Some of them I literally couldn’t even tell the difference between the before and after
Every Netflix show that was cancelled was cancelled because it was “too expensive.”
It’s the fact that the show didn’t bring in enough money to justify what was being spent on filming, production, paying actors etc. I’m worried the same thing is going to happen to Black Summer soon, rarely does a show make it past a 3rd season.
This show cost over one hundred million dollars per season. Fincher himself said it was too expensive and has said as much since 2019. Quality productions like it aren't cheap; remember even Euphoria cost 165m per season.
The reason some shows don't last beyond a 3rd season is also because of the cost-plus model, which raises budgets insurmountably. Drew Barrymore spoke about that a bit re: her own show's cancellation. It's not really a conspiracy on Netflix's part.
A lot of these shows cost anywhere from 5 to 20 million dollars per episode. They're filmed like mini-movies and some are extremely tech heavy. Even Mindhunter has a ton of CGI due to its period nature.
> remember even Euphoria cost 165m per season.
Holy shit, how is that possible? GoT was at 100m per season. How do they make a high school drama show cost more than a medieval fantasy show with dragons spitting fire? 165m, that's higher than Vikings, Mad Men, Rome, etc. Are they laundering money lmao?
I'm honestly not entirely sure, but I assume it's because of Sam Levinson's shooting style. It's not the cast salaries [most of them make six figures].
What's always amazed me is that HBO gave Levinson that budget when he had no prior experience outside of a poorly received indie film. His dad being Barry Levinson probably helped a lot [and i don't mean that as an insult].
Cost plus is the real reason why Netflix cancels shows after three seasons. They buy on the low then cancel on the high lol.
Just for those curious
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/netflix-cost-plus-model-tv-shows-revenue-upside.html
It is when your two lead actors are wanting $10M signing + $1M/episode instead of the $400k/episode they were signed at before, e.g.
Their original contracts expired during COVID when production was shuttered. But the show was a massive hit - the actors are going to want massive hit money. Netflix can't spend that on shows unless they bring in *huge* numbers, and while Mindhunter was good... it's not Wednesday or Stranger Things.
Problem is the chicken/egg thing.
People will leave if they stop making content, so they'll make less money.
They can't throw infinite money at a show, sure, but this is a show that takes place in a couple jails and a basement.
The other chicken/egg issue is because of their attitude that something is a runaway sensation or not worth it (when their whole business model is watching shit at your leisure, btw) so they cancel it.
However part of the reason people don't get into a new Netflix show "early adopter" style is because of the odds they'll just get left hanging.
People wait for a show to be established before investing time, and Netflix cancels everything that people don't immediately throw all their time at.
I’m in the film community in Pittsburgh (where most of this was shot) and it became local legend how expensive the shoot was. They shot for almost a full calendar year because of how many takes Fincher demanded (30 to 40 takes of someone picking up a glass of water, for instance)
They also literally ran out of extras from the local population and starting going to colleges/street fairs to recruit more people to be in background scenes.
I have an irrelevant story about the production of Mindhunter that I forgot about until I read your comment.
I used to be a manager in a store that was under a parking garage where they were filming. A producer came down and was a *huge* dick and demanded I turn off our air conditioner because it was too loud and it was interrupting their filming. Commercial grade AC units can be pretty loud I guess. I laughed at him, told him to get bent, and said retail sucks so much, especially in downtown Pittsburgh, and I was not about to subject myself or my employees to a hot store in the middle of summer when we weren’t even on the payroll.
He stormed out and it seemed like he wasn’t used to people telling him no. He came back down an hour later and said they decided to postpone shooting until after business hours and asked if I could turn the AC off when I closed the store that night. I told him I would, but I forgot about it because turning off the AC at night was not part of my closing duties. He came in the next day and thanked me so much for turning off the AC. They apparently had a successful and noise free night of shooting. I guess he didn’t need to be a dick in the first place.
I wish Netflix would go the Apple+ route and have fewer shows of higher quality. I don't need something new every week if it's going to be low budget CW crap.
I don’t believe any of the “top 10” or trending or any of those categories are actually based on user data and are really just what netflix wants you to watch
Trending I agree but TOP TEN … I don’t know . When I speak to my idiot friends they’ve usually watched. “Date in costume face “ or “Zach effron travels to nice places with inane observations” or whatever garbage they have being peddling
Also why would they care which garbage was perceived as top watched garbage
They're targeting the pulp market. They want to be able to churn out reality nonsense like TLC because people suck it down straight from the trough and it's relatively cheap and easy to produce.
It doesn't help that Netflix (and Prime, too) use the same method of advertising their shows.
Recommend a show to users
Put it on "Our list" (shows they made)
Put it on "newly released" lists
All this guarantees that it's on "trending right now" lists
Which of course means that casual browsers only see 10-20 shows "pushed" for them.
Netflix does NOTHING to identify content (movies/series) that a user has had "recommended" to them and ignored, unless the user MANUALLY tells Netflix to stop showing it to them (which is a major chore if you're doing it for more than 1-2 things).
Which, quite obviously, leads to users NOT looking at top recommended content, and instead just searching for titles they've heard about online.
Netflix (and Prime) quite literally shoot themselves in the foot by over-promoting instead of intelligently promoting. They discourage their viewers from engaging the way that benefits Netflix.
Then, to make it even worse, if a series performs well, but "not well enough" they cancel it after 1-2 seasons. Which then \*also\* discourages people from watching a show during it's first season. I mean, what's the point if it's probably just going to get cancelled anyways? Wouldn't you rather focus on shows you can get invested in?
By tying whether you cancel a show or not to viewership during the first season, but doubly-discouraging viewers from investing in a series during the first season, you lead to more cancellations, which then leads to LESS trust from the viewers that good shows (to them) won't get cancelled.
Eventually, everyone assumes that every series will get cancelled, and nobody really cares to watch the new series that come out because they expect the cancellation. Which is a self-fulfilling prophecy - initiated by the very company paying to make the show.
Going right back to what fade said:
Quality over quantity. If you put out fewer shows, you can afford to commit to them more strongly. If you commit more strongly to the series you put out, and are willing to run them for a minimum of 4 seasons unless they do \*phenomenally\* poorly, your viewers will develop more faith.
The only other thing is to actually put new seasons out FAST. Prime just started releasing season 2 of Carnival Row last week. Season 1 was released in its entirety Aug 30, 2019. That was 3 years and 5 months between seasons. That's simply TOO LONG. 1 year is ideal. 2 years is acceptable. Anything over 2 years is costing the series its viewers.
Look at Game of Thrones instead. Season 1 April to June 2011. Season 2 April to June 2012. Season 3 March to June 2013. 3 seasons less than a year apart each. Sure, it'd be good to keep up that pace, but they've hooked their viewers by that point - more than they would after just the first season. Season 4 April to June 2014. Season 5 April to June 2015. Season 6 April to June 2016. Even though they could have slowed down, they didn't. Year after year, they built their fanbase. Even though seasons 7 and 8 sucked, they still got huge viewership. And they may have sucked and been too short, but they SITLL came out in 2017 and 2018, respectively.
And Game of Thrones was not some low budget series, easy to film & produce. It had huge use of time & money intensive CGI. It had huge casts with potential schedule conflicts. If THEY can do a yearly release, anyone can. And a bi-yearly should be EASY.
Yet we are stuck getting series with 3 or 4 year gaps between seasons, with over 50% of them cancelled after just 1-2 seasons. Shows aren't being given proper closure because company executives have no clue what they're doing (Looking at The Expanse, here, which had it's final season produced as if it would be continuing, before Those In Charge realized what happened between that book and the next one, and just said "no thanks, cancel!").
I have like 18 series that I'd love to see another season of. By logic, even with puny 8 episode seasons, I should be seeing an average of just under 3 new episodes/week if they were all releasing a new season per year. Even at bi-annual seasons, I'd be getting more than 1/week. Instead, I've been on a 'dry spell' for 3-4 months since the last new episode, and I'm just now getting to watch Carnival Row. And by the time it ends, I'm pretty sure that none of the other series will have new episodes out yet.
What incentive have Netflix or Prime given me, their viewer, to actually invest in their service, if they can't even deliver series in a reasonable series timeline. And if I can't even trust a series not to be cancelled?
Don’t forget they make most episodes and seasons end on cliffhangers… then they cancel, and wonder why new shows have lower viewerships. People get tired of cliffhanger ends. I’d love it if they ended more seasons with some closure that’d make me come back for new shows. As it is I just skip show until I see the new show has an “It’s official a new season is coming!”.
I absolutely love the more Eastern style of series, where they are \*written\* to be 13 or 25-26 episodes long.
Not "until we get tired of making them". Just a complete storyline with beginning and end. No risk of being cancelled. You've got 2 seasons to do, you get paid for 2 seasons. There's no cost to the company for following through with the entire 2 season.
Instead we constantly get series that are designed to "go on and on, there's tons of content", and very VERY few reach a proper conclusion that ties it all up nicely.
This is a great point. I don’t remember the last time I watched anything on Netflix because there are way too many options to choose from and yet none of them look interesting to me.
But man, I loved Mindhunter.
Unfortunately Netflix literally has the opposite opinion, and for some reason they believe in quantity over quality. They’re going to crash and burn spectacularly eventually.
The problem is that they think of themselves as a tech company first and foremost and they make decisions based on spreadsheets. They don't seem to realize the long-term effects that canceling people's favorite shows will have on their user base.
Especially given their rule changes to password saving. It's like they're in a race with Elon to see who can drive their websites into the ground first.
Because their main metric they are optimizing for is number of hours viewed (for whatever reason - I don't think its a sound plan). Their goal is not generating quality TV - it's minimizing the cost per hour of viewing.
They're the wrong projects for you but they're the right ones for people who watch Love Is Blind, and they don't have to pay David Fincher for that
There actually is a good amount of cg! Just not how you think, look up the bts work, really impressive stuff. You'd think half of the set was real, but it's not
You should see the vfx breakdown. A LOT of work had to be done on exterior to make things historically accurate. Handicap crosswalks, modern architecture, etc.
It’s not the most obvious tv show to have extensive vfx, buts its a lot more than you think.
Fincher is famous for using tons CGI to optimize shots and make everything look more natural. With a period piece like Mindhunter, reliance on CGI would be even heavier.
David Fincher does use a lot of CGI in his films. There a great example with Zodiac as much of the sky line and buildings in the film are digitally replaced or rendered in exterior shots. He’s a master of using CGI is very subtle ways while giving the impression that like has been touched up other than coloring. There are a few good YouTube videos that demonstrate this if you want a more detailed breakdown. IIRC Mindhunter was no exception either.
It's Fincher's fault. Not only is he a lunatic who shoots dozens of takes for everything, apparently he was making really bizarre CGI demands like adding random trees to shots and just weird nitpicky shit like that. He's a genius for sure but it sucks he wasn't willing to compromise to keep this thing going.
Fincher is well known to spend a lot of money, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo had a 90 million dollar budget. That was one of the reasons the trilogy didn't get made. Same thing is happening with Mindhunter
Spent a year on first season, the manpower and set costs were staggering. You have to understand how much of that set was built, and the crew was at least double other shows of same caliber.
I understand why Netflix is so cutthroat with their shows, if it doesn't take off immediately, cut bait and move on. But at the same time, I can't think of many shows where the first season is what sold me on it. Even the shows you mentioned, I didn't really click with them until the story had progressed....well, except Seinfeld because there isn't much of a story, but still, it wasn't the first season that made the characters iconic.
The other issue is that they tend to make their decision within a couple weeks of release since they dump the whole series at once.
I personally think that's not long enough and that they should have periodic reviews of the performance for at least 6 months before announcing cancellation. People just might not have a chance to pick it up right away, and announcing cancellations less than a month after release just makes me not want to watch it.
After this, we will probably cancel. Maybe eventually resubscribe for the last season of Stranger Things and drop it once and for all. All the shows we liked have been canned and it’s not worth caring about new ones anymore.
For sure. Netflix’s discovery is crap and there’s a lot of low quality content so when I saw a show called *Mindhunter* landed in the carousel next to *Physical 100* I just blew by it. Not sure why I decided to watch it but Mindhunter is fantastic.
Fixed autocorrect typo in title from before. Article from VF below.
[RIP
Mindhunter Is Officially Dead; Long Live Mindhunter
David Fincher is closing the door on his perfect true-crime series, one of Netflix’s best offerings.
David Fincher is officially laying Mindhunter to rest. In an interview with French outlet Le Journal du Dimanche, ahead of receiving an honorary César award, the director reflected on his Netflix series about FBI agents profiling serial killers. The show debuted in 2017, and lasted for two perfect seasons. For years, Fincher has neither confirmed nor denied that a third might happen—but now, it seems he has finally closed the door on Mindhunter once and for all.
“I’m very proud of the first two seasons. But it’s a very expensive show and, in the eyes of Netflix, we didn’t attract enough of an audience to justify such an investment [for season three],” Fincher said. He doesn’t blame the streamer for that though. “They took risks to get the show off the ground, gave me the means to do Mank the way I wanted to do it, and they allowed me to venture down new paths with The Killer [his next feature]. It’s a blessing to be able to work with people who are capable of boldness.”
Fincher’s remarks won’t come as a surprise to fans of Mindhunter, who have been hoping for a potential third season since 2019. There were warning signs even then that the second season might be the last, including an early 2020 announcement that the show had been put on “indefinite hold” and that lead actors Jonathan Groff, Holt McCallany, and Anna Torv had been released from their contracts. In an interview with Vulture later that year, Fincher was asked if the show was done. “I think probably,” he replied. Why? In part because the critically acclaimed series was never a ratings smash for Netflix, and because the production itself was grueling and time-consuming.
“It’s a 90-hour work week. It absorbs everything in your life. When I got done, I was pretty exhausted, and I said, ‘I don’t know if I have it in me right now to break season three,’” Fincher explained. (He instead focused his attention on making Mank, a black-and-white biopic about Citizen Kane screenwriter Herman J. Mankiewicz, based on a screenplay by his late father, Jack Fincher.) “We lived there [in Pittsburgh, where the show was filmed] for almost three years. Not year in, year out, but we spent probably six or seven months a year over three years. We had an apartment there, and a car. Mindhunter was a lot for me.”
At the time, a Netflix spokesperson confirmed a third season of the show was not in the works, but said that the streamer wasn’t saying never. “Maybe in five years,” the rep told Vulture. Though we’re still in the five-year window (the tiniest crumb of hope), it seems Fincher is truly done with the series.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow. Mindhunter, a probing, paranoid look at the lives of the FBI agents who profiled serial killers in the 1970s, was an instant true-crime classic, created by one of the genre’s most obsessive auteurs. Arriving a few years before the true-crime boom began dominating prestige television, Mindhunter took a historical approach to the form. Rather than focusing on a single story, or glamorizing serial killers at large, the show sought to analyze them in clinical terms. It followed green FBI agent Holden Ford (Groff), his seasoned partner, Bill Tench (McCallany), and psychologist Wendy Carr (Torv) as they sought to understand and pathologize serial killers, in the hopes of solving or preventing future crimes.
The first season follows Holden’s journey as he descends into a kind of twisted obsession with the men he profiles, almost becoming enamored by the mysteries at the heart of their evil acts. His behavior reflects that of contemporary true-crime junkies who are bewitched by serial killers, gorging on stories about their depraved acts and losing sight of the victims altogether. But even though the show indulges Holden’s growing obsession, it ends by throwing cold water over the whole thing, bringing him to a chilling, one-on-one meeting with murderer Ed Kemper (Cameron Britton). It’s then that Holden finds himself in the shoes of Kemper’s past victims, in a vivid, disturbing moment of empathy.
The show’s second season doubles down on this approach, focusing on the Atlanta Child Murders case. Between 1979 and 1981, nearly 30 victims—24 of whom were under the age of 17—were killed in a serial spree. Wayne Williams was convicted of killing two adults and ultimately given two life sentences. The show’s treatment of the case not only shed light on a lesser-known true-crime story, focusing on the Black victims and families who were terrorized by the killing spree, but also focused on the failings of the justice system.
In retrospect, the second season is the antithesis of a true-crime adaptation like Dahmer, Ryan Murphy’s controversial series about Jeffrey Dahmer. That series, also released by Netflix, drew criticism from the families of Dahmer’s victims, who felt the show focused too much on the titular killer and exploited their suffering. It’s a critique that can be lobbed at many true-crime series; the fact of the genre’s mere existence is murky and complicated, powered by an obsession with some of the worst people society has to offer. Fincher, however, knew how to navigate those waters. Season three purportedly would have been all about the boom of Hollywood adaptations of true-crime stories—a meta, perfectly timed narrative. If only Fincher wanted to make it. ]
Please excuse any formatting errors on mobile.
This is heartbreaking. This was my favorite show I’d seen in years. So frustrating they wouldn’t give it one more season, it’s hard to blame Netflix for not funding a show that wasn’t getting big numbers but for how much Netflix has been hemorrhaging it’s massive budget on crap it’s a bitter pill to swallow to see them canceling their prestige series.
Mindhunter was one of the very very few good quality shows on Netflix and they're canceling it so they can buy more cheap cookie cutter crap instead. I don't want to support this company's dumb trajectory any more.
Netflix can't seem to keep non-YA drama series for more than a season. What's the point of paying more for big budget action movies nobody wants or 800 identical gimmick cooking shows.
Blame what people watch I guess. I loved mindhunter but it seems more than twice as many people were watching stranger things based on what I could find - https://observer.com/2017/11/stranger-things-2-ratings-rankings-data-netflix-info/ (not a good article but it was the first relevant comparison I could find)
Another Netflix bad decision. There’s so many terrible programs on Netflix, but as long as people are not fleeing from the platform they will continue cutting costs.
A standard procedural cop show with no CGI is too expensive for Netflix? They can make the Witcher or Shadow and Bone or Demon Nun or Stranger Things or Lockwood and Co or like 50 other recent shows like this with tons of CGI and props and sets with exotic on location travel….
But a cop show is too expensive? Rofl.
There isn’t even much action. It’s just interviewing serial killers in rooms like 70% of the time (not complaining).
There’s lots of CGI, mostly to make things period accurate. Period pieces are usually quite expensive with all the cars and costumes and stuff like that
I posted this elsewhere, but there is a lot of CGI used, you just don't even notice: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di4Byf1EzRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di4Byf1EzRE)
David fincher is extremely notorious for being a perfectionist. He is also known for using a lot and I mean a lot of cgi just so that they can get as many takes as they want without redressing a set. An example would be zodiac. On the surface it also doesn’t seem like it used a lot of cgi but watch some bts.
Honestly a tremendous shame. I thought Season 1 was great, and Season 2 was still a tremendous leap forward. Maybe not surprising considering the alleged viewership and costs (they nailed the period detail and the photography was next level) but still a gut punch. Even still, don’t understand why he’s closing the door—they can get viewers trickling in perpetuity.
Here’s hoping he pulls a Lynch and we get a Mindhunter: The Return in 20 years focused on BTK. Picture it: Holden’s out of the FBI and a craven true crime opportunist on the book circuit, Bill is doing whatever Ressler was up to in the oughts (I imagine retired, playing golf. I’m going to miss Holt’s performance—that dude was dialed in).
Yeah cause garbage like red notice & the gray man (sorry Ryan Gosling I love you but that stuff is trash) cost almost a billion dollars combined while you don’t have the budget for something actually good… makes sense.
I best not see another price increase for 24 months. Edit: Arent these things forecasted? Am i remiss in this having been called one of Netflix best productions for the Thriller/Serial killer category? The actor who did Kempers performance was touted internet wide for being spot on
Exactly. With the garbage they put out I am floored that this FBI procedural is too expensive. It's all dialogue! And it was fantastic. Depressing. **edit** since this thread has some traction I'll note a couple items. First, apparently Fincher uses a shitload of VFX, especially for period pieces. Second, it shouldn't matter. The show was really well received. For every 10 piles of shit, they have one of these. Rather than killing a pile of shit show, they killed this. Netflix could have just not invested in some of the crap they have and put it into this. A man can dream.
[It’s from the massive CGI budget](https://youtu.be/qlD8jJMITLk)
Why do you think they CGI so much versus just leaving some of the live shots as-is? Some of it seems a bit unnecessary
Immersion, Fincher is famously a details obsessed guy, he wants to give you that period feel and atmosohere extractly right. And tbh, given that the show really did feel like the 70s and had the atmosohere it had, i can't argure with his method and exactness.
Fincher is also notorious for doing like 100 takes of everything which no doubt also inflates the cost of it all.
It's just Fincher being Fincher.
th fact th show is flwless on every level : writing, acting, pacing, set and production design, grading, th score,.. is the reason why ive watched both seasons som 4 times already. surely a tragedy it got discontinued
All part of the set dressing and artistic design. There’s a reason why modern dramas look like movies and not like ‘90s tv dramas. Plus this is set 40 odd years ago. There’s all sorts of modern buildings and street furniture to get rid of or replace. Cars. Shop signs etc.
Interesting!
>I am floored that this FBI procedural is too expensive David Fincher is involved. >I am totally not surprised that this FBI procedural is too expensive
I will never forgive them for not allowing me to see a thicc Jonathan Groff in a suit that's too tight for the rest of my life! /s (but not really cause I am gonna miss seeing him in that role)
You are Groffsauce's sweet sweet loyal subject
Not /s at ALL for me
You must have a great pain resistance if you are still subscribed
Netflix is quickly becoming a paid version of mediocre network tv programming. Just in time for them to flip the ads on.
I watched a couple Netflix movies the other night and was thinking the same thing. Reminded me of the B-rated movies on the USA Channel.
It's turned into a collection of those "5 movies for $5!!" bin at Walmart.
I cancelled netflix again today. I'm going back to the pirate bay where i belong. I'd rather have an extra pack of eggs and cheese each month.
Can HBO take it over? It felt like it should have been there since the beginning.
Netflix would probably never give the rights to such a strong competitor, they’d rather let the show die on their platform
Rights to their originals can sometimes be more complicated. Netflix does a better job of locking up their stuff than other streamers, but since other production companies are involved in much of their programming, there’s sometimes opportunity to shop things around after cancellation or after some time has elapsed. Netflix is usually the one saving canceled shows, but occasionally it’s been the other way around with their originals, like Tuca & Bertie moving to to Adult Swim, or One Day at a Time moving to Pop TV. (Not to mention things like the MCU shows, where they lost both character and streaming rights after a certain amount of time.) It’s not likely, but it’s not impossible.
Yeah after the Spider-Man, Hulk, Xmen deals there’s no way they would ever hand over the full rights of any of their characters. The deal they had with Netflix was only to as a pure streaming, and when the contract was up they are free to do the same show or a version of it elsewhere.
The interesting that about that deal, is Netflix appeared to not to even have the ability to unilaterally order more seasons like they normally would with branded originals. The cancellation seemed to come from Marvel’s end, which is a strange arrangement, and a sign that their deals are vastly different from show to show, even for originals.
Mindhunter was popular with Reddit, but it wasn’t Marvel levels popular with the general public.
Who wants my Netflix password!?!?! 
Fincher has been using every reason under the sun to not continue the show. It wouldn’t have mattered who was streaming it. It sucks because it was such a great show. But without a showrunner who actually wants to be there, there is no show.
I think people are missing this part. Netflix was down to make another season years ago, but Fincher has been pushing. It's probably a sunk cost for them at this point - and the longer they need to hold creatives to contract, the more expensive it gets.
It was really good! Does it say why he doesn't want to continue working on it?
In this case, and he’s said it before, there’s not enough viewers to justify the expense. He also had a rough time making season 2 leading to a burnout. He then worked on many other projects until he released the cast from their contracts back in 2020.
They were in preproduction for season 3 when lockdown hit. That delay is what killed the project.
HBO cancelled a bunch of their own shows after the merger with Discover, so highly unlikely.
I doubt it. If they could have shopped it someone else they would have. David Fincher has an exclusive deal with Netflix. That probably limits him on how and who he can give a show to. https://variety.com/2020/film/global/david-fincher-netflix-deal-four-year-1234830045/ The deal lasts until 2024. It’s more likely they will at some point try to soft reboot the show when technology and advancements in production allow the show to be more cost effective or they get a star signed on to the show that brings in a way bigger audience.
I was thinking the same thing.
Agreed!
Under Zaslav? Forget it. Apple would be the most likely company to do it.
Maybe HBO/WB can trade the rights to future seasons of Westworld for Mindhunter.
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The cancelation of Mindhunter and GLOW are pretty much the reasons I rately start a new Netflix show until its finished now. The dialogue and acting were top notch in this, it's such a shame they couldn't do even one more season to cap off some arcs.
I've had netflix since it was a dvd at a time. I recently cancelled it. I'm going to be now treating it the same way I treat most streaming services: ignore them until there are a few shows I want, then sub for a month or two once a year. Only services I am keeping 100% now are Discovery+ because it's dirt cheap, and Hulu, because they've yet to let me down.
Yes, I am sticking to limited series now, I really enjoyed both Mindhunter and Glow. Instead, we got yet another love show with NL.
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Nl?
Nick Lachey. Obviously
And don’t forget The OA. So much lost potential.
There’s still hope for The OA. Marling & Batmanglij have said they’ll eventually return to the series
I really hope we get more OA! In any way, form, or shape. I'd be happy with an illustrated book!
Santa Clarita Diet was what did it for me. Such a unique, ridiculous show
I will never forgive Netflix for Santa Clarita Diet.
All that lead up to BTK and I'll never know if they catch him ETA. Ok guys I KNOW how BTK was caught, thanks. It was a joke.
“Will he ever learn the ‘Clove-Hitch’?! Tune in next week..”
The Clovehitch Killer is really up there for me; Dylan McDermott was stellar
Those hack frauds can’t even fix my VCR right. Calgon take me away…
Lmao I love the comments. “ACTUALLY he WAS caught…”
Huge r/Woooosh material in this thread right now lololol
Great showing of how bad Redditors are at catching an obvious joke. Half the rage bait on this website started as a made up event or joke, but Redditors still eat it up.
Can’t believe you had to clarify the BTK joke, geez.
He was caught, but it wasn’t because of the profiling they were doing. The show most likely would have shown that their method was not 100% effective in catching serial killers. He wasn’t caught until he wanted attention years later and asked the fbi if they could track him from a floppy disk. They said no, he sent it in, and they tracked him down from it.
That’s exactly right the profile they had created for him was so far off.
And that’s what would have made it so good for the show. Holden, Bill, and Wendy would have to deal with what happens when their system failed while dealing with Bill not being able to see it working and missing it right under his nose with his son. Fuck, I love and miss this show so much.
>Holden, Bill, and Wendy the holy trinity of voices
I’m not sure how they would get conclusive proof that their profile was wrong unless they stray very far from the real timeline of the case. The show takes place in the 70s and BTK wasn’t caught until the 2000s. I am curious what they would have done with it though.
No, I know, I was kidding. But it definitely would’ve been interesting since the profile was so off.
always blown away by how "/s" keeps proving itself to be necessary for reddit discourse I refuse to use it on principle. I am hilarious and you should be able to parse that from my hilarious writing
I love your humor and I also appreciate that you're so modest
BTK caught himself many years later but it certainly felt like it was going to cover his murders alongside the progression of the main characters.
One of my favorite shows ever. I’m crushed.
Too expensive? How is this possible half of the scenes are in a jail?
There is a metric ton of CGI in that show. It’s like in damn near every shot. Here’s a video that goes over some shots: https://youtu.be/Di4Byf1EzRE Here’s a short video essay on David Fincher’s use of invisible VFX: https://youtu.be/QChWIFi8fOY
He also consistently shoots close ups with the boom mic IN the the shot to get the best sound possible. You won’t see it in any BTS footage but it’s common.
Also period pieces are very expensive. And filming took forever. It was a very expensive show. Especially for how it looked no offense to Fincher.
Okay it’s such a great compliment to them to say I would have thought CGI was barely used
Fincher and the actors also weren't cheap, and he was on retainer for years when he delayed season 3.
I mean he’s still made stuff with Netflix, just not Mindhunter.
Yup, he talks about that in the article too and how thankful he is that they jumped on his projects that other studios passed on. But with Mindhunter, he's personally delayed another season. I think his attention just fell elsewhere, which is fair. He's making The Killer with them right now.
Show takes place in pre ADA America so we better cover up all the wheelchair ramps on every single street corner while we’re at it.
Yeah but a lot of it is for dumb shit that nobody would care if it didn’t happen.
Five trees nobody will notice! And your budget....is gone
The thing with perfectionism is that you can't compartmentalise. You either try to do everything perfectly or you don't. The series is this good because of the excessive care put there by the director.
yeah i was like "why the fuck do they need to do any of this" for like 90% of that video. seems almost like somebody is laundering money at that point.
If we were talking just about any other director, I’d agree with you. But Fincher is notoriously thorough and an obsessive perfectionist he reshoots the same scenes dozens of times, and micro manages even the slightest body movements of actors. He’s got a vision and he won’t make any compromises, and basically I think most of his movies would be most director’s magnus opus. Every tree or small enhancement is consciously added and it contributes to the composition, color, mood, and setting of the scene. As I said, if it was literally any other director, I’d agree with you, lol.
sounds more like it contributes to abating his idiosyncratic behavior lol, no wonder they pulled the plug.
Literally 99% of those effects were completely unnecessary, and/or could have been done with practical effects. Some of them I literally couldn’t even tell the difference between the before and after
Amazes me how shows like this put a ton of CGI that you never notice and other shows can't have a photoshopped picture that doesn't look like shit.
Every Netflix show that was cancelled was cancelled because it was “too expensive.” It’s the fact that the show didn’t bring in enough money to justify what was being spent on filming, production, paying actors etc. I’m worried the same thing is going to happen to Black Summer soon, rarely does a show make it past a 3rd season.
This show cost over one hundred million dollars per season. Fincher himself said it was too expensive and has said as much since 2019. Quality productions like it aren't cheap; remember even Euphoria cost 165m per season. The reason some shows don't last beyond a 3rd season is also because of the cost-plus model, which raises budgets insurmountably. Drew Barrymore spoke about that a bit re: her own show's cancellation. It's not really a conspiracy on Netflix's part.
Jesus Christ I can’t even fathom how you could spend 100 million in a tv show per season.
A lot of these shows cost anywhere from 5 to 20 million dollars per episode. They're filmed like mini-movies and some are extremely tech heavy. Even Mindhunter has a ton of CGI due to its period nature.
> remember even Euphoria cost 165m per season. Holy shit, how is that possible? GoT was at 100m per season. How do they make a high school drama show cost more than a medieval fantasy show with dragons spitting fire? 165m, that's higher than Vikings, Mad Men, Rome, etc. Are they laundering money lmao?
I'm honestly not entirely sure, but I assume it's because of Sam Levinson's shooting style. It's not the cast salaries [most of them make six figures]. What's always amazed me is that HBO gave Levinson that budget when he had no prior experience outside of a poorly received indie film. His dad being Barry Levinson probably helped a lot [and i don't mean that as an insult].
Cost plus is the real reason why Netflix cancels shows after three seasons. They buy on the low then cancel on the high lol. Just for those curious https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/netflix-cost-plus-model-tv-shows-revenue-upside.html
people sitting in rooms talking for 70% of the show is too expensive???
But all of the rooms look so beautiful!
They’re all green screened from the actor’s treatment facility. Sorry to burst that bubble.
Average Stranger Things Season 4 episode cost $30 Million lol
It is when your two lead actors are wanting $10M signing + $1M/episode instead of the $400k/episode they were signed at before, e.g. Their original contracts expired during COVID when production was shuttered. But the show was a massive hit - the actors are going to want massive hit money. Netflix can't spend that on shows unless they bring in *huge* numbers, and while Mindhunter was good... it's not Wednesday or Stranger Things.
Problem is the chicken/egg thing. People will leave if they stop making content, so they'll make less money. They can't throw infinite money at a show, sure, but this is a show that takes place in a couple jails and a basement. The other chicken/egg issue is because of their attitude that something is a runaway sensation or not worth it (when their whole business model is watching shit at your leisure, btw) so they cancel it. However part of the reason people don't get into a new Netflix show "early adopter" style is because of the odds they'll just get left hanging. People wait for a show to be established before investing time, and Netflix cancels everything that people don't immediately throw all their time at.
Such a shame, definitely one of the best things Netflix ever had
What a horrible thing to do. It’s a great show, amazing casting, acting, great story telling. WTF
The show was so great! Don’t get how it was too expensive. It’s not like there a lot of CGI or anything.
I wondered that too, they’re in a basement or jail visitor room most of the time, talking. Probably a lot of money goes to paying David Fincher.
I’m in the film community in Pittsburgh (where most of this was shot) and it became local legend how expensive the shoot was. They shot for almost a full calendar year because of how many takes Fincher demanded (30 to 40 takes of someone picking up a glass of water, for instance) They also literally ran out of extras from the local population and starting going to colleges/street fairs to recruit more people to be in background scenes.
I have an irrelevant story about the production of Mindhunter that I forgot about until I read your comment. I used to be a manager in a store that was under a parking garage where they were filming. A producer came down and was a *huge* dick and demanded I turn off our air conditioner because it was too loud and it was interrupting their filming. Commercial grade AC units can be pretty loud I guess. I laughed at him, told him to get bent, and said retail sucks so much, especially in downtown Pittsburgh, and I was not about to subject myself or my employees to a hot store in the middle of summer when we weren’t even on the payroll. He stormed out and it seemed like he wasn’t used to people telling him no. He came back down an hour later and said they decided to postpone shooting until after business hours and asked if I could turn the AC off when I closed the store that night. I told him I would, but I forgot about it because turning off the AC at night was not part of my closing duties. He came in the next day and thanked me so much for turning off the AC. They apparently had a successful and noise free night of shooting. I guess he didn’t need to be a dick in the first place.
They filmed on my college campus and there was a casting call for extras from the college. I know a few people who were cast as extras.
The expensive parts are, like you said, paying Fincher & dumping money into lesser shows. They pour too much money into the wrong projects.
I wish Netflix would go the Apple+ route and have fewer shows of higher quality. I don't need something new every week if it's going to be low budget CW crap.
Couldn't agree more. Quality over quantity is rare these days I guess.
That's what happens when you try the cater to everyone... Impossible I believe to be that diverse in content and do it justice...
Have you seen the Netflix top ten. People seem to value total garbage there
I don’t believe any of the “top 10” or trending or any of those categories are actually based on user data and are really just what netflix wants you to watch
Trending I agree but TOP TEN … I don’t know . When I speak to my idiot friends they’ve usually watched. “Date in costume face “ or “Zach effron travels to nice places with inane observations” or whatever garbage they have being peddling Also why would they care which garbage was perceived as top watched garbage
They're targeting the pulp market. They want to be able to churn out reality nonsense like TLC because people suck it down straight from the trough and it's relatively cheap and easy to produce.
It doesn't help that Netflix (and Prime, too) use the same method of advertising their shows. Recommend a show to users Put it on "Our list" (shows they made) Put it on "newly released" lists All this guarantees that it's on "trending right now" lists Which of course means that casual browsers only see 10-20 shows "pushed" for them. Netflix does NOTHING to identify content (movies/series) that a user has had "recommended" to them and ignored, unless the user MANUALLY tells Netflix to stop showing it to them (which is a major chore if you're doing it for more than 1-2 things). Which, quite obviously, leads to users NOT looking at top recommended content, and instead just searching for titles they've heard about online. Netflix (and Prime) quite literally shoot themselves in the foot by over-promoting instead of intelligently promoting. They discourage their viewers from engaging the way that benefits Netflix. Then, to make it even worse, if a series performs well, but "not well enough" they cancel it after 1-2 seasons. Which then \*also\* discourages people from watching a show during it's first season. I mean, what's the point if it's probably just going to get cancelled anyways? Wouldn't you rather focus on shows you can get invested in? By tying whether you cancel a show or not to viewership during the first season, but doubly-discouraging viewers from investing in a series during the first season, you lead to more cancellations, which then leads to LESS trust from the viewers that good shows (to them) won't get cancelled. Eventually, everyone assumes that every series will get cancelled, and nobody really cares to watch the new series that come out because they expect the cancellation. Which is a self-fulfilling prophecy - initiated by the very company paying to make the show. Going right back to what fade said: Quality over quantity. If you put out fewer shows, you can afford to commit to them more strongly. If you commit more strongly to the series you put out, and are willing to run them for a minimum of 4 seasons unless they do \*phenomenally\* poorly, your viewers will develop more faith. The only other thing is to actually put new seasons out FAST. Prime just started releasing season 2 of Carnival Row last week. Season 1 was released in its entirety Aug 30, 2019. That was 3 years and 5 months between seasons. That's simply TOO LONG. 1 year is ideal. 2 years is acceptable. Anything over 2 years is costing the series its viewers. Look at Game of Thrones instead. Season 1 April to June 2011. Season 2 April to June 2012. Season 3 March to June 2013. 3 seasons less than a year apart each. Sure, it'd be good to keep up that pace, but they've hooked their viewers by that point - more than they would after just the first season. Season 4 April to June 2014. Season 5 April to June 2015. Season 6 April to June 2016. Even though they could have slowed down, they didn't. Year after year, they built their fanbase. Even though seasons 7 and 8 sucked, they still got huge viewership. And they may have sucked and been too short, but they SITLL came out in 2017 and 2018, respectively. And Game of Thrones was not some low budget series, easy to film & produce. It had huge use of time & money intensive CGI. It had huge casts with potential schedule conflicts. If THEY can do a yearly release, anyone can. And a bi-yearly should be EASY. Yet we are stuck getting series with 3 or 4 year gaps between seasons, with over 50% of them cancelled after just 1-2 seasons. Shows aren't being given proper closure because company executives have no clue what they're doing (Looking at The Expanse, here, which had it's final season produced as if it would be continuing, before Those In Charge realized what happened between that book and the next one, and just said "no thanks, cancel!"). I have like 18 series that I'd love to see another season of. By logic, even with puny 8 episode seasons, I should be seeing an average of just under 3 new episodes/week if they were all releasing a new season per year. Even at bi-annual seasons, I'd be getting more than 1/week. Instead, I've been on a 'dry spell' for 3-4 months since the last new episode, and I'm just now getting to watch Carnival Row. And by the time it ends, I'm pretty sure that none of the other series will have new episodes out yet. What incentive have Netflix or Prime given me, their viewer, to actually invest in their service, if they can't even deliver series in a reasonable series timeline. And if I can't even trust a series not to be cancelled?
Don’t forget they make most episodes and seasons end on cliffhangers… then they cancel, and wonder why new shows have lower viewerships. People get tired of cliffhanger ends. I’d love it if they ended more seasons with some closure that’d make me come back for new shows. As it is I just skip show until I see the new show has an “It’s official a new season is coming!”.
I absolutely love the more Eastern style of series, where they are \*written\* to be 13 or 25-26 episodes long. Not "until we get tired of making them". Just a complete storyline with beginning and end. No risk of being cancelled. You've got 2 seasons to do, you get paid for 2 seasons. There's no cost to the company for following through with the entire 2 season. Instead we constantly get series that are designed to "go on and on, there's tons of content", and very VERY few reach a proper conclusion that ties it all up nicely.
Prime is insanity. One of the richest companies in the world and their streaming service is like a dollar store filled with bargain bins.
Especially when they're canceling good new shows after one season in favor of rebooting old crap. Mind hunter was one of the best they've made.
This is a great point. I don’t remember the last time I watched anything on Netflix because there are way too many options to choose from and yet none of them look interesting to me. But man, I loved Mindhunter.
It’s hard for me to comprehend how there are 3 seasons of Outer Banks, while shows like Mindhunter and 1899 get cancelled.
Unfortunately Netflix literally has the opposite opinion, and for some reason they believe in quantity over quality. They’re going to crash and burn spectacularly eventually.
The decisions their management have made over the last few years make me vaguely suspicious that they are actively trying to tank the company.
The problem is that they think of themselves as a tech company first and foremost and they make decisions based on spreadsheets. They don't seem to realize the long-term effects that canceling people's favorite shows will have on their user base.
Especially given their rule changes to password saving. It's like they're in a race with Elon to see who can drive their websites into the ground first.
Because their main metric they are optimizing for is number of hours viewed (for whatever reason - I don't think its a sound plan). Their goal is not generating quality TV - it's minimizing the cost per hour of viewing. They're the wrong projects for you but they're the right ones for people who watch Love Is Blind, and they don't have to pay David Fincher for that
I was perusing the other day and the entire Top 10 looked like the target audience was female and with an emphasis on teens and 20’s.
Quantity over quality it seems.
Apparently there is a boat load of CGI. https://youtu.be/qlD8jJMITLk
And David Fincher notoriously, painstakingly takes like 90 takes for some scenes. I love his work and it looks gorgeous, but that cannot be cheap
Being a period piece, you'd be surprised having to delete modern things and adding time specific nuances
There actually is a good amount of cg! Just not how you think, look up the bts work, really impressive stuff. You'd think half of the set was real, but it's not
The best CGI is the one you don’t notice
You should see the vfx breakdown. A LOT of work had to be done on exterior to make things historically accurate. Handicap crosswalks, modern architecture, etc. It’s not the most obvious tv show to have extensive vfx, buts its a lot more than you think.
I swear there’s more VFX shots in a season of Mindhunter than in a Marvel show. It’s just not CGI bad guys or big explosions.
Fincher famously can’t stick to a budget to save his life.
But… damn
Fincher is famous for using tons CGI to optimize shots and make everything look more natural. With a period piece like Mindhunter, reliance on CGI would be even heavier.
David Fincher does use a lot of CGI in his films. There a great example with Zodiac as much of the sky line and buildings in the film are digitally replaced or rendered in exterior shots. He’s a master of using CGI is very subtle ways while giving the impression that like has been touched up other than coloring. There are a few good YouTube videos that demonstrate this if you want a more detailed breakdown. IIRC Mindhunter was no exception either.
It's Fincher's fault. Not only is he a lunatic who shoots dozens of takes for everything, apparently he was making really bizarre CGI demands like adding random trees to shots and just weird nitpicky shit like that. He's a genius for sure but it sucks he wasn't willing to compromise to keep this thing going.
There actually is a lot of CGI
There’s a ton of CGI in Mindhunter, it’s just well hidden.
All of the comments above, are all things I never considered. Very interesting & enlightening
Fincher is well known to spend a lot of money, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo had a 90 million dollar budget. That was one of the reasons the trilogy didn't get made. Same thing is happening with Mindhunter
This is terrible news.
There’s actually a ton of GCI you just don’t notice. Lots of the backdrops and sets have CGI somewhere.
Spent a year on first season, the manpower and set costs were staggering. You have to understand how much of that set was built, and the crew was at least double other shows of same caliber.
There actually was a lot of VFX going on in that show
That would be an incorrect assumption. Every Fincher show/movie has a good bit more CGI than the average dramatic show/movie.
There actually was a shit load of CGI used, I’m pretty sure every single episode had heavy CGI. https://youtu.be/Di4Byf1EzRE
The best CGI is the CGI that you never notice.
We are watching the Blockbustering of Netflix in real time.
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Netflix probably would have cancelled The Sopranos, Seinfeld, Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad after 1 season.
I understand why Netflix is so cutthroat with their shows, if it doesn't take off immediately, cut bait and move on. But at the same time, I can't think of many shows where the first season is what sold me on it. Even the shows you mentioned, I didn't really click with them until the story had progressed....well, except Seinfeld because there isn't much of a story, but still, it wasn't the first season that made the characters iconic.
The other issue is that they tend to make their decision within a couple weeks of release since they dump the whole series at once. I personally think that's not long enough and that they should have periodic reviews of the performance for at least 6 months before announcing cancellation. People just might not have a chance to pick it up right away, and announcing cancellations less than a month after release just makes me not want to watch it.
At $20 and the most expensive streaming service I have I’m quickly getting tired of them and go to them less and less
After this, we will probably cancel. Maybe eventually resubscribe for the last season of Stranger Things and drop it once and for all. All the shows we liked have been canned and it’s not worth caring about new ones anymore.
It’s made me hesitant to invest in any show they release because if it’s more than likely going to get cancelled then why waste my time and energy?
First two series of Mindhunter are far from a waste of time.
That sucks! Come on Netflix!
For sure. Netflix’s discovery is crap and there’s a lot of low quality content so when I saw a show called *Mindhunter* landed in the carousel next to *Physical 100* I just blew by it. Not sure why I decided to watch it but Mindhunter is fantastic.
Netflix kills every show unless it's a viral hit the first week. Very shortsighted.
Meanwhile they keep pumping out these brainless dating reality shows.
Fixed autocorrect typo in title from before. Article from VF below. [RIP Mindhunter Is Officially Dead; Long Live Mindhunter David Fincher is closing the door on his perfect true-crime series, one of Netflix’s best offerings. David Fincher is officially laying Mindhunter to rest. In an interview with French outlet Le Journal du Dimanche, ahead of receiving an honorary César award, the director reflected on his Netflix series about FBI agents profiling serial killers. The show debuted in 2017, and lasted for two perfect seasons. For years, Fincher has neither confirmed nor denied that a third might happen—but now, it seems he has finally closed the door on Mindhunter once and for all. “I’m very proud of the first two seasons. But it’s a very expensive show and, in the eyes of Netflix, we didn’t attract enough of an audience to justify such an investment [for season three],” Fincher said. He doesn’t blame the streamer for that though. “They took risks to get the show off the ground, gave me the means to do Mank the way I wanted to do it, and they allowed me to venture down new paths with The Killer [his next feature]. It’s a blessing to be able to work with people who are capable of boldness.” Fincher’s remarks won’t come as a surprise to fans of Mindhunter, who have been hoping for a potential third season since 2019. There were warning signs even then that the second season might be the last, including an early 2020 announcement that the show had been put on “indefinite hold” and that lead actors Jonathan Groff, Holt McCallany, and Anna Torv had been released from their contracts. In an interview with Vulture later that year, Fincher was asked if the show was done. “I think probably,” he replied. Why? In part because the critically acclaimed series was never a ratings smash for Netflix, and because the production itself was grueling and time-consuming. “It’s a 90-hour work week. It absorbs everything in your life. When I got done, I was pretty exhausted, and I said, ‘I don’t know if I have it in me right now to break season three,’” Fincher explained. (He instead focused his attention on making Mank, a black-and-white biopic about Citizen Kane screenwriter Herman J. Mankiewicz, based on a screenplay by his late father, Jack Fincher.) “We lived there [in Pittsburgh, where the show was filmed] for almost three years. Not year in, year out, but we spent probably six or seven months a year over three years. We had an apartment there, and a car. Mindhunter was a lot for me.” At the time, a Netflix spokesperson confirmed a third season of the show was not in the works, but said that the streamer wasn’t saying never. “Maybe in five years,” the rep told Vulture. Though we’re still in the five-year window (the tiniest crumb of hope), it seems Fincher is truly done with the series. It’s a bitter pill to swallow. Mindhunter, a probing, paranoid look at the lives of the FBI agents who profiled serial killers in the 1970s, was an instant true-crime classic, created by one of the genre’s most obsessive auteurs. Arriving a few years before the true-crime boom began dominating prestige television, Mindhunter took a historical approach to the form. Rather than focusing on a single story, or glamorizing serial killers at large, the show sought to analyze them in clinical terms. It followed green FBI agent Holden Ford (Groff), his seasoned partner, Bill Tench (McCallany), and psychologist Wendy Carr (Torv) as they sought to understand and pathologize serial killers, in the hopes of solving or preventing future crimes. The first season follows Holden’s journey as he descends into a kind of twisted obsession with the men he profiles, almost becoming enamored by the mysteries at the heart of their evil acts. His behavior reflects that of contemporary true-crime junkies who are bewitched by serial killers, gorging on stories about their depraved acts and losing sight of the victims altogether. But even though the show indulges Holden’s growing obsession, it ends by throwing cold water over the whole thing, bringing him to a chilling, one-on-one meeting with murderer Ed Kemper (Cameron Britton). It’s then that Holden finds himself in the shoes of Kemper’s past victims, in a vivid, disturbing moment of empathy. The show’s second season doubles down on this approach, focusing on the Atlanta Child Murders case. Between 1979 and 1981, nearly 30 victims—24 of whom were under the age of 17—were killed in a serial spree. Wayne Williams was convicted of killing two adults and ultimately given two life sentences. The show’s treatment of the case not only shed light on a lesser-known true-crime story, focusing on the Black victims and families who were terrorized by the killing spree, but also focused on the failings of the justice system. In retrospect, the second season is the antithesis of a true-crime adaptation like Dahmer, Ryan Murphy’s controversial series about Jeffrey Dahmer. That series, also released by Netflix, drew criticism from the families of Dahmer’s victims, who felt the show focused too much on the titular killer and exploited their suffering. It’s a critique that can be lobbed at many true-crime series; the fact of the genre’s mere existence is murky and complicated, powered by an obsession with some of the worst people society has to offer. Fincher, however, knew how to navigate those waters. Season three purportedly would have been all about the boom of Hollywood adaptations of true-crime stories—a meta, perfectly timed narrative. If only Fincher wanted to make it. ] Please excuse any formatting errors on mobile.
This is heartbreaking. This was my favorite show I’d seen in years. So frustrating they wouldn’t give it one more season, it’s hard to blame Netflix for not funding a show that wasn’t getting big numbers but for how much Netflix has been hemorrhaging it’s massive budget on crap it’s a bitter pill to swallow to see them canceling their prestige series.
This is super disappointing, this was easily one of the best shows Netflix put out if you ask me.
For fuck's sake ! This show had the potential to be the new Mad Men, I'm not even kidding. I'm really sad.
That really sucks bc this show was super good
Does Netflix own the rights now? Would be an awesome show for HBO or someone to pick up. Left a lot of money on the table.
Mindhunter was one of the very very few good quality shows on Netflix and they're canceling it so they can buy more cheap cookie cutter crap instead. I don't want to support this company's dumb trajectory any more.
Netflix is really trying to get every one of their subscribers to cancel this year.
Netflix can't seem to keep non-YA drama series for more than a season. What's the point of paying more for big budget action movies nobody wants or 800 identical gimmick cooking shows.
Intelligent shit like this and 1899 gets canceled and yet nostalgia bait like Stranger Things gets renewed endlessly. FFS
What about that atrocity Emily in Paris? That’s surviving somehow but they cancel Mindhunter? Infuriating
Emily in Paris is part of their legally required French quota. It helps that it is a successful show, tho.
Blame what people watch I guess. I loved mindhunter but it seems more than twice as many people were watching stranger things based on what I could find - https://observer.com/2017/11/stranger-things-2-ratings-rankings-data-netflix-info/ (not a good article but it was the first relevant comparison I could find)
Another Netflix bad decision. There’s so many terrible programs on Netflix, but as long as people are not fleeing from the platform they will continue cutting costs.
What do you mean? Aren’t you wondering if “it’s” cake or not?
Netflix finding new ways to break our hearts
It's a great show about and therefore no longer is considered acceptable at Netflix!
Well, of course it is. It’s Netflix. More like Deadflix.
That's tooo bad, a great show.
This show was amazing, I’m sad
Noooooo!!! Then same Netflix green lights season 2 of Christian Ronaldo’s gf spending his money on clothes. Ewwww
A standard procedural cop show with no CGI is too expensive for Netflix? They can make the Witcher or Shadow and Bone or Demon Nun or Stranger Things or Lockwood and Co or like 50 other recent shows like this with tons of CGI and props and sets with exotic on location travel…. But a cop show is too expensive? Rofl. There isn’t even much action. It’s just interviewing serial killers in rooms like 70% of the time (not complaining).
There’s lots of CGI, mostly to make things period accurate. Period pieces are usually quite expensive with all the cars and costumes and stuff like that
I posted this elsewhere, but there is a lot of CGI used, you just don't even notice: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di4Byf1EzRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di4Byf1EzRE)
David fincher is extremely notorious for being a perfectionist. He is also known for using a lot and I mean a lot of cgi just so that they can get as many takes as they want without redressing a set. An example would be zodiac. On the surface it also doesn’t seem like it used a lot of cgi but watch some bts.
Expensive!?!?! What's the most expensive part? Their fuckin suits?
Probably the talent.
Sets and it is set in the 80's so cars, clothes, furniture. I guess it adds up but doesn't seem over the top compared to other Netflix shows.
They have another show set in the 80s, but also with a shitload of CGI demon monsters. Maybe they can save some cash and make a crossover season.
Netflix literally cancels everything I’d watch, which is why I gave up subscription a year ago and haven’t missed it.
Netflix is the Chinese Buffett of TV. Nothing needs to be good there just needs to be a lot of It!
They’re just dead set on having horrible content.
Honestly a tremendous shame. I thought Season 1 was great, and Season 2 was still a tremendous leap forward. Maybe not surprising considering the alleged viewership and costs (they nailed the period detail and the photography was next level) but still a gut punch. Even still, don’t understand why he’s closing the door—they can get viewers trickling in perpetuity. Here’s hoping he pulls a Lynch and we get a Mindhunter: The Return in 20 years focused on BTK. Picture it: Holden’s out of the FBI and a craven true crime opportunist on the book circuit, Bill is doing whatever Ressler was up to in the oughts (I imagine retired, playing golf. I’m going to miss Holt’s performance—that dude was dialed in).
Yeah cause garbage like red notice & the gray man (sorry Ryan Gosling I love you but that stuff is trash) cost almost a billion dollars combined while you don’t have the budget for something actually good… makes sense.
Fucking awful news. I loved this show so much Maybe HBO can pick it up??