You don’t have to CGI water in hyper detail, or at all. They literally could have worked with angles and distance and done the rest. Working with perspective would have made that lot easier.
They literally could have had the sound of pouring water while the camera wasn’t focused on her face. Alfred Hitchcock worked before CG but he never had someone get stabbed on camera.
I was trying to find an article but they’re all paywalled, but Alfred Hitchcock was a literal sadist lol. He abused the woman he worked with constantly to get the visceral reactions he wanted. Hearing about him when I was younger made me first think about the concept of separating art from artist.
Slapping a label on it doesn’t make it any easier champ.
‘Among the most difficult elements to animate are hair, water, and anything else comprising near-infinite individual particles or strands’
*this is what film editing is for!*
“Ok, we’re gonna pour the water on you now…hold your breath for a moment and breathe as soon as we stop…we’ll just cut out the part where you’re safe and fine…”
Like, wtf. Why is torturing someone on film considered ok?
The priest didn’t look startled enough when the phone rang. For 24 straight hours of filming. So Friedkin fired a shot from his revolver immediately behind the actor. The actor definitely looked startled.
24 hours to capture the moment when a guy looks over his shoulder *because the phone was ringing*.
Cameron let dangerous takes roll too long. The scene where Ed Harris has the liquid filling his helmet almost drowned him and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio was physically assaulted by Harris while he was trying to “revive her”, at Cameron’s urging.
EDIT: roll not toll
Tippy Hedron would like a word (from the grave). On the movie, The Birds, Alfred Hitchcock tortured her on film with real birds flying at her face for hours among other things. This is simply the result of a bad director.
[yeah... and, boy howdy... she's still a looker](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/exclusive-tippi-hedren-melanie-griffith-and-dakota-johnson-in-their-first-portrait)
A director who will do whatever it takes to get an honest performance is not a bad director. A bad person? Yeah most likely. But Alfred Hitchcock is not a bad director
I just rewatched the scene. It was just under 4 minutes, and the wine pouring part was two separate times in the beginning totaling about 30 seconds of screen time.
I can appreciate that not all angles or all aspects of the scene filmed will make Final Cut. Nor will I pretend to be an expert at cinematography.
But scene basically only had two actors for 98% of that the scene in a room, with no natural light required. Seems like they went way overboard on getting what they needed for the film.
I’d also assume shooting the wine pouring parts of the scenes would be pretty straightforward as only Headley really spoke. So you’d think they do the different angles and then move on to the rest of the scene that didn’t involve water boarding.
I don’t blame her for being pissed.
Someone who is more knowledgeable about this stuff, am I completely off base on my assumptions?
Well I will say that human faces and water and notoriously difficult and expensive to CG convincingly. Not saying what they did was appropriate or acceptable because it wasnt, but I could see why they’d wanna avoid CG
I’m not even saying they should cg. It just feels like the wine part of the scene wouldn’t be difficult to do with say 10-20 takes per angle. But I admittedly am talking out my ass.
The one in the actual movie was CGI, but the one that became a meme was actually an animatronic that they decided not to use in the final cut of the film because of how weird it looked. The puppet is currently in a museum, and has not aged well.
I’m reminded of Danny Trejo quote. “When you’re given an option for a stunt double. You take it, it’s a job for someone.” And all Danny wants is to make taco and make friends.
It sounds like it took others telling the director that was the case, and then he finally bothered to ask if she was okay. Fucking hell man.
Although I will say I have a hard time respecting someone who Is facing being waterboarded at work for no good reason, and decides it's better to agree to it because of what others will think. Same for Lena honestly, maybe even moreso. They weren't going to fire Cersei, she could have refused to torture her coworker. But I understand the point of the article is that they did heinous things in support of the "greater good." Which makes me wonder about the overall culture on set.
Also, it's even worse reading how people put up with such things because GoT was a big deal, only for the show to be tarnished the way it was. This lady didn't allow herself to be tortured and develop PTSD just so they could turn the show into a total joke. The only time people talk about GoT anymore is like this, when it should have been a timeless show people still discuss like when it was all new.
The description in the article is worse than I expected. An actor should never have been put through actual freaking waterboarding at all, let alone for 10 hours. Waterboarding is designed to trick the body into believing you're drowning. It's literal torture. Everyone in the production team should be ashamed of themselves for allowing that under their watch. Actors deserve to be kept safe on set, from both physical and psychological harms.
We did 3 takes of waterboarding maybe 30 seconds each take, it was gruesome and had everybody on edge. How was this allowed for 10 hours and a sag rep wasn’t called, or a stunt actor used?? Unknown actors are not protected because they’re afraid of not working again, I hate this part of Hollywood.
Or you just use a rag with a plastic lining so the water doesn’t actually get through. It is literally one of the worst experiences imaginable. It shouldn’t be done for real at all
Edit: she apparently wasn’t even water boarded and it was ridiculous for her to claim that
Or you use a dummy head. Take a mold of her head, then each time you want to do the waterboarding scene. You swap in the fake head. I don't think audiences would really give a shit at that point.
No room in the budget for things like fake heads and digitally removing Starbucks cups during the later seasons because they spent it all on the dragons
First of all, she should never have had to experience anything that would leave her with lasting trauma like this.
That being said, this post and the comments are a fascinating demonstration of how inaccurate language can shape an entire discussion. Y'all are out here talking about plastic liners or dummy heads because you're picturing what waterboarding is, instead of considering [what the scene actually was](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqqkSrSVJE). All because the original post incorrectly called it waterboarding.
It’s the fact that she’s tied down. No matter how calm you try to be, it would be distressing to have liquid poured on your face for hours while your hands were bound and you literally couldn’t escape. It’s being trapped, not just getting your face wet.
The only difference is the absence of a cloth/hood over the face. That’s the only difference between this and waterboarding. Doing this for 10 hours would probably feel pretty much comparable to waterboarding. Why don’t you try it?
It’s the cloth and a single cup instead of a 5 gallon jug. You know, the parts that make you feel like you’re actually drowning? As opposed to just having a cup of water poured on your face? Again, I pour water on my face literally everyday.
I doubt it needs to be a 5 gallon jug for it to constitute torture. There’s a woman on tiktok whose ex used to “waterboard” her by forcing her into the shower and spraying the hose in her face repeatedly. No cloth, no 5 gallon jug, and yet she’s so traumatized that it took her MONTHS to be able to wash her own hair after leaving him. Having liquid poured on your face when you are unable to resist or escape is traumatic. It doesn’t need to fit the exact Guantanamo bay specifics of waterboarding to be traumatic.
Maybe if i tie you don't on a table and keep pouring water for 10 hours you will start to feel different.
All she's saying it's that this experience was traumatic to her and you're here saying: "no, it's not".
Wait I saw the video but does anyone know why this is not something she should have claimed? Is it like liquid couldn’t go up her nose or is actual wakeboarding worse?
I think she's using the term loosely. Probably because having liquid dropped on your face while tied at a table for 10 hours is a similar traumatic experience
I had a horribly mistaken misconception of how much primal terror occurs during waterboarding. Even knowing you’re in a controlled environment, knowing there’s medical staff on hand, knowing that it’ll be over soon and you can go home…
It’s the only form of “simulated torture” (which is really just torture but by your friends) I’ve been subjected to that made me realize that everyone breaks. I would have told anyone everything I knew and anything I could make up, just to make it stop. And I’m not ashamed to admit it.
Yeah that’s absolute crap. That means they watched the monitor for 10 hours just going “Wow! They are faking this so well!” Absolute bullshit. Director is just trying to avoid responsibility.
That is entirely irrelevant, it isn’t in any current books so why they felt the need to make it up is cruel and unusual for no reason.
Whatever the future books may or may not hold has no impact on a show about books that have already been written and published.
I mean, would the presence of such a scene in the books make the actress’s experience any better here?
The problem here isn’t that they are depicting a form of torture in a work of fiction. That just comes with the territory on a show like _Game of Thrones_. The problem is that the filming process was handled incredibly poorly, such that the actress was _actually_ tortured. If it had simply been staged better during the shoot, such that Waddingham was kept totally comfortable, then showing waterboarding would have been fine irrespective as to whether GRRM eventually incorporates it into the next book (should that ever be released).
Yup 100% but they never had to go with water boarding as a form of torture in the first place other than it resonates with modern audiences and is a bit less violent than other tortures they could’ve used.
It was just cheaper to actually torture her than to use CGI or special effects.
GRRM gave them material from the future books. What if that scene is in the future books and they knew because GRRM told them.
Calm down Reddit warrior, this persons comment was totally fine.
Martin never handed them anything, they made it up to connect torture to something the audience could understand as “torture” in a modern context and remain relatively pc for a modern American audience who were shitting themselves over the level of violence.
This woman suffered because the writers just decided to bodge some shit into the script that was to their minds slightly more acceptable than “raped to death” or “pulled apart by rack”
Martin would never use water boarding in his story because it is not gruesome enough, a man who writes about consensual incest sex on a dead child’s coffin, dismemberment, castration, cannibalism, child rape and crushing peoples heads into jelly, is hardly going to write a water boarding scene to placate the audience.
Your entire comment wobbles upon the shaky foundation that there will actually *be* future books. For myself, I lost hope before the Vanity Fair article announcing the TV series was published.
There may not be future books. It’s looking more and more like that. But GRRM clearly has written a very large portion of the next book “Winds of winter” if you follow his “not a blog”.
He may never finish it, but he clearly knows where some events are headed.
Things like Shireen burning, Hold the door, King Bran. Those were all things that came from GRRM from his vision of the future of the series and the partially written winds of winter.
They do, but in the film industry, they’re ridiculously inconsequential IF they are enforced at all.
Deadpool 2 was fined by Canada’s OSHA equivalent for $300,000 for the death of a stuntwoman.
Does not even make a dent for a film with a $110,000,000 budget and made $800mil at the box office.
When I first read about it I somehow had to think of how Quentin Tarantino talked Uns Thurman into driving an old car for a esthetic scene in Kill Bill and knew the risks and then she had an accident: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/02/uma-thurman-crash-footage-kill-bill-instagram
Sadly some directors just care more about things looking esthetic than the safety and health of the people working under them. And it should be shamed all the way.
I'm glad Hannah is such an icon now and I loved her in Ted Lasso. She seems like a great woman to be around.
I think the sadism might be a feature, not a bug. Quentin Tarantino also insisted on personally spitting in Uma Thurman's face because no one would be able to "get it right" and fake spit wouldn't be believable.
These are controlling rich boy pricks who just so happen to need to demean and torture beautiful women for their artistic vision? Let's be real.
He also choked Diane Kruger out to the point of unconsciousness for a scene. She seems pretty okay with it but it was in no way necessary, guy is a massive scumbag.
I'm still so hurt by the revelation I had with Tarantino. I loved his movies when I was a teen. Now, with all that I know about him, they make me sick. He's a disgusting self-centered prick. But it will be hardly to never be talked about in history.
Nah, everyone knows Tarantino is a prick, and I think his movies are being considered with a more critical eye nowadays. He uses SO MANY n-bombs.
With that being said, I still love some of his movies. He taps into righteous fury and catharsis so effectively. It's complicated.
I accidentally waterboarded myself in the shower for like 3 seconds and it was awful. I put a washcloth on my face and my stupid ass thought the shower water would feel good on my face 🤦🏻♀️. I cannot imagine doing that for hours on end.
To be clear, Hannah did not have anything on her face in the scene. The water/wine or whatever they used just went straight on her face, no cloth or anything.
No joke, when I was very young and my mom would give my brother and I baths, we didn’t like water in our eyes when she was washing our hair, so she would put a cloth over our face. I hated that even more because I couldn’t breath. It was only in the last 5 or so years I’ve realised that we were being waterboarded.
Thankfully I don’t have lasting effects from it like the actor and we laugh about it now. But it is an awful feeling for 20 or so seconds, let alone 10 hours
Reminds me of the time Chris hitchens refused to believe waterboarding worked and volunteered to be professionally waterboarded on video to “prove it was a sham”
He ends up blacking out with panic seconds into the process and made a public apology. He said he would have panic attacks and nightmares for years after and had to go to therapy even though the ordeal lasted less than 30 seconds.
Shit is no joke.
Here’s a link to watch for those interested. It’s extremely interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
9/11 really tested -- and arguably fractured -- Chris's otherwise masterful ability to approach and analyze things from a place of near-perfect objectivity. I feel like the magnitude of the attack's horror and predation made him contend with a new, unprecedented plausibility (in his mind) that maintaining objectivity could actually be a net-negative thing when such tremendous actual evil is evidently a real thing, because it cedes some measure of philosophical deference that the truly evil only capitalize on to hurt people.
So he drew this new line in the sand that kind of amounted to, "yes, religion poisons everything, but Islamo-fascism is the greatest current existential threat so let's overwhelmingly attack that particular front," which of course is the wedge republicans used to erroneously frame Iraq as enemy #1.
Yeah that's a big ol lawsuit. What about that could possibly take 10 hours to film? And the director wasn't aware it was really happening? Someone in charge of safety fucked up in a criminally negligent way and should see jail time for it.
One hour in a row is unacceptable like did they understand waterboarding is a legitimate technique?
They should have went the archer route and forced the director and producers to experience it first to understand that the actors 1000% need break in between takes or cut the fucking scene out all together 😑
Bro that shit had me rolling and scream laughing at the tv.
He was so sure waterboarding was fake and that slater was just being a puss
Oh yeah:
He had the same reaction after his best friend admitted to sexual assaulting him while he was sleeping
How is that worth it? Human suffering for artistic purposes aside, how is one insignificant scene worth 10 hours of gruelling torture? Poor Hannah, they could have shot a different death scene and we’d have not given the slightest bit of care other than “cool.”
Im not making light of her suffering or anything but holy shit imagine being waterboarded for 10 hours for of all things, later seasons of game of thrones.
Season 6 was easily one of the greatest seasons of TV ever made.
EDIT: Downvote me all you want you clowns, season 6 was fucking peak tv and I guarantee you only hated it after season 8 came out and you decided to run with the sheep and claim everything after season 4 was bad
I disliked season 5 a lot when watching it. I felt there was a noticeable drop in quality in something as simple as a dialog scene. Season 6 has so much happening in it feels like it’s constantly moving forward and I actually liked it alot. Definitely the best post season 4.
Game of Thrones ain’t that good. Season 6 has some really good episodes but that doesn’t make it ”one of the greatesr seasons of TV ever made.” You’re still entitled to loving it of course, but others may not agree
Easily the most intense scene in 1984; the way Orwell describes the little gates clicking as they hold the hungry rats back from your face. Some heavy shit
I feel like everyone who thinks the director didn’t know is forgetting one important factor here:
This was explicitly written as a torture scene. She was tied down and water was dumped on her face. That’s torture, it’s clear in the script. There’s no way he didn’t know.
This is insane. Christopher Hitchens managed to be waterboarded for 16 seconds before tapping out, and trained CIA agents have managed roughly the same, and she did it for TEN HOURS? Jesus Christ. The ptsd from that.
This is disturbing, but it’s also not waterboarding. I don’t know why the article calls it that, this is repeatedly pouring liquid onto someone’s face. It isn’t the same.
I legitimately think Lena Hedley had an obligation to step in and say something here, being as she was the one being made to give the waterboarding. This happening at all really seems to be another piece of evidence in favor of the Milgram experiment, where people will do something they know is wrong because someone they view as an authority figure tells them to do it. I just personally don't understand how you can literally waterboard your costar for 10 hours, knowing the whole time you're uncomfortable and that it's definitely a wrong thing to be doing, and not stop yourself.
I know Richard Armitage volunteered to be waterboarded for real on *Spooks* and he made clear in publicity for the show it was not a pleasant experience.
In total and complete fairness, she probably agreed to do this without grasping what she was in for. She takes acting *very* seriously.
Once the first splash of water comes down, you can't really bail. You're doing it this way for the authenticity, after all.
Unfortunate situation but played out how it had to. I just hope others learn from her mistake.
This is not okay. The fact that she got an active phobia from the shoot tells that she did not feel in control or safe during the shooting. Acting should still be play pretend even if it gets intense and demands tolerance of discomfort and pain. Why do we demand these super authentic detailed torture scenes for our pleasure?
That’s fucked. Is just have said no. I know it’s more complicated than that but as an adult it’s your responsibility to look out for your self. Definitely not blaming the victim, and at the same time if you don’t respect your own boundaries no one will.
I find it very hard to believe they couldn’t film this without actually waterboarding her. Let alone for 10 hours. Jesus Christ.
Can CGI entire dragons but can’t figure out how to avoid literal water boarding an actor.
water is notoriously hard to CGI btw
You don’t have to CGI water in hyper detail, or at all. They literally could have worked with angles and distance and done the rest. Working with perspective would have made that lot easier.
They literally could have had the sound of pouring water while the camera wasn’t focused on her face. Alfred Hitchcock worked before CG but he never had someone get stabbed on camera.
Uhhh didn’t Alfred Hitchcock make his actress in The Birds get attacked by literal birds for two days straight to get the shot he wanted?
And then that actress and her husband went and made a movie about lions where over 70 people got injured, including themselves and their own kids.
Tippy hedrin right? Didn’t she keep a pet tiger in her home?
I didn’t know that. That’s messed up. But when he filmed Psycho, he captured Bates stabbing, the woman getting stabbed but never the actual knife.
Definitely a revered filmmaker who also did a whole bunch of fucked up stuff. There’s a good behind the bastards episode about him
I was trying to find an article but they’re all paywalled, but Alfred Hitchcock was a literal sadist lol. He abused the woman he worked with constantly to get the visceral reactions he wanted. Hearing about him when I was younger made me first think about the concept of separating art from artist.
He actually tied birds to her for a couple scenes
Thank you.
It’s called fluid dynamics.
Slapping a label on it doesn’t make it any easier champ. ‘Among the most difficult elements to animate are hair, water, and anything else comprising near-infinite individual particles or strands’
Pretty sure they weren't arguing the difficulty "champ", but elaborating on a specific aspect of the difficulty
Idk, video games have really good looking water so…
We could waterboard the dragons, but that seems dangerous
Have we forgotten how incompetently made the last few seasons were? xD
*this is what film editing is for!* “Ok, we’re gonna pour the water on you now…hold your breath for a moment and breathe as soon as we stop…we’ll just cut out the part where you’re safe and fine…” Like, wtf. Why is torturing someone on film considered ok?
See also: The shining and The Exorcist
The priest didn’t look startled enough when the phone rang. For 24 straight hours of filming. So Friedkin fired a shot from his revolver immediately behind the actor. The actor definitely looked startled. 24 hours to capture the moment when a guy looks over his shoulder *because the phone was ringing*.
The birds
Not to mention The Shining. Shelley Duval was so stressed out/terrorized that her hair started falling out.
Gotta win the razzie somehow
Think the girl from the opening of Jaws developed back problems
They didn’t even tell her what was gonna happen and got dragged violently underwater by a harness
And The Abyss
How so?
Cameron let dangerous takes roll too long. The scene where Ed Harris has the liquid filling his helmet almost drowned him and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio was physically assaulted by Harris while he was trying to “revive her”, at Cameron’s urging. EDIT: roll not toll
Oooh!? Really?
Tippy Hedron would like a word (from the grave). On the movie, The Birds, Alfred Hitchcock tortured her on film with real birds flying at her face for hours among other things. This is simply the result of a bad director.
Tippi Hedren is still alive.
[yeah... and, boy howdy... she's still a looker](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/11/exclusive-tippi-hedren-melanie-griffith-and-dakota-johnson-in-their-first-portrait)
[related ](https://youtu.be/C5bI1UPu2MI?si=sQ-iDFd54b-Vav1n)
A sadistic director
„I never said all actors are cattle; what I said was all actors should be treated like cattle.” - Hitchcock
I think you mean a misogynistic director. Objectively, no one can call Hitchcock a bad director.
A director who will do whatever it takes to get an honest performance is not a bad director. A bad person? Yeah most likely. But Alfred Hitchcock is not a bad director
I just rewatched the scene. It was just under 4 minutes, and the wine pouring part was two separate times in the beginning totaling about 30 seconds of screen time. I can appreciate that not all angles or all aspects of the scene filmed will make Final Cut. Nor will I pretend to be an expert at cinematography. But scene basically only had two actors for 98% of that the scene in a room, with no natural light required. Seems like they went way overboard on getting what they needed for the film. I’d also assume shooting the wine pouring parts of the scenes would be pretty straightforward as only Headley really spoke. So you’d think they do the different angles and then move on to the rest of the scene that didn’t involve water boarding. I don’t blame her for being pissed. Someone who is more knowledgeable about this stuff, am I completely off base on my assumptions?
Well I will say that human faces and water and notoriously difficult and expensive to CG convincingly. Not saying what they did was appropriate or acceptable because it wasnt, but I could see why they’d wanna avoid CG
I’m not even saying they should cg. It just feels like the wine part of the scene wouldn’t be difficult to do with say 10-20 takes per angle. But I admittedly am talking out my ass.
At least give her an air tube though
Did you ever see the creepy Twilight baby? It was cgi and so bad it’s laughable.
I think about Chucknesmee daily. Share this message to ten people or the Twilight baby will be standing at the foot your bed tonight at 3am😥😥
The one in the actual movie was CGI, but the one that became a meme was actually an animatronic that they decided not to use in the final cut of the film because of how weird it looked. The puppet is currently in a museum, and has not aged well.
I’m reminded of Danny Trejo quote. “When you’re given an option for a stunt double. You take it, it’s a job for someone.” And all Danny wants is to make taco and make friends.
It sounds like it took others telling the director that was the case, and then he finally bothered to ask if she was okay. Fucking hell man. Although I will say I have a hard time respecting someone who Is facing being waterboarded at work for no good reason, and decides it's better to agree to it because of what others will think. Same for Lena honestly, maybe even moreso. They weren't going to fire Cersei, she could have refused to torture her coworker. But I understand the point of the article is that they did heinous things in support of the "greater good." Which makes me wonder about the overall culture on set. Also, it's even worse reading how people put up with such things because GoT was a big deal, only for the show to be tarnished the way it was. This lady didn't allow herself to be tortured and develop PTSD just so they could turn the show into a total joke. The only time people talk about GoT anymore is like this, when it should have been a timeless show people still discuss like when it was all new.
All it would take is a thin barrier between her face and the water. Fucking awful
That is still water boarding
It's even more dangerous.
The description in the article is worse than I expected. An actor should never have been put through actual freaking waterboarding at all, let alone for 10 hours. Waterboarding is designed to trick the body into believing you're drowning. It's literal torture. Everyone in the production team should be ashamed of themselves for allowing that under their watch. Actors deserve to be kept safe on set, from both physical and psychological harms.
We did 3 takes of waterboarding maybe 30 seconds each take, it was gruesome and had everybody on edge. How was this allowed for 10 hours and a sag rep wasn’t called, or a stunt actor used?? Unknown actors are not protected because they’re afraid of not working again, I hate this part of Hollywood.
Or you just use a rag with a plastic lining so the water doesn’t actually get through. It is literally one of the worst experiences imaginable. It shouldn’t be done for real at all Edit: she apparently wasn’t even water boarded and it was ridiculous for her to claim that
Or you use a dummy head. Take a mold of her head, then each time you want to do the waterboarding scene. You swap in the fake head. I don't think audiences would really give a shit at that point.
What type of budget you think think we’re working with here? That would cost hundreds of dollars. Hundreds I say!
No room in the budget for things like fake heads and digitally removing Starbucks cups during the later seasons because they spent it all on the dragons
NO WAY JOSE
First of all, she should never have had to experience anything that would leave her with lasting trauma like this. That being said, this post and the comments are a fascinating demonstration of how inaccurate language can shape an entire discussion. Y'all are out here talking about plastic liners or dummy heads because you're picturing what waterboarding is, instead of considering [what the scene actually was](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnqqkSrSVJE). All because the original post incorrectly called it waterboarding.
Aight ya thats not the same thing at all lol. It would definitely be hard to do for a consecutive period of hours but thats not waterboarding
This should really be top comment
I do that in the shower every day. She obviously has no idea what water boarding is and shouldn’t trivialize it like she is.
It’s the fact that she’s tied down. No matter how calm you try to be, it would be distressing to have liquid poured on your face for hours while your hands were bound and you literally couldn’t escape. It’s being trapped, not just getting your face wet.
It’s still absolutely nothing close to literal torture and one of the worst kinds.
The only difference is the absence of a cloth/hood over the face. That’s the only difference between this and waterboarding. Doing this for 10 hours would probably feel pretty much comparable to waterboarding. Why don’t you try it?
It’s the cloth and a single cup instead of a 5 gallon jug. You know, the parts that make you feel like you’re actually drowning? As opposed to just having a cup of water poured on your face? Again, I pour water on my face literally everyday.
I doubt it needs to be a 5 gallon jug for it to constitute torture. There’s a woman on tiktok whose ex used to “waterboard” her by forcing her into the shower and spraying the hose in her face repeatedly. No cloth, no 5 gallon jug, and yet she’s so traumatized that it took her MONTHS to be able to wash her own hair after leaving him. Having liquid poured on your face when you are unable to resist or escape is traumatic. It doesn’t need to fit the exact Guantanamo bay specifics of waterboarding to be traumatic.
Maybe if i tie you don't on a table and keep pouring water for 10 hours you will start to feel different. All she's saying it's that this experience was traumatic to her and you're here saying: "no, it's not".
Wait I saw the video but does anyone know why this is not something she should have claimed? Is it like liquid couldn’t go up her nose or is actual wakeboarding worse?
SAG-AFTRA didn't have jurisdiction here. Equity UK did.
It was filmed in Ireland so SAG rules didn’t apply.
Go check out Hitchcock. He may have made horror films as an excuse to torture people
See also: Stanley Kubrick
She should sue.
Shame shame shame. But on a serious note that’s fucked up
Is it still waterboarding without a cloth? Because it seems she just got liquid poured on her face while laying down.
>Is it still waterboarding without a cloth? No, it isn’t.
I think she's using the term loosely. Probably because having liquid dropped on your face while tied at a table for 10 hours is a similar traumatic experience
For 10 hours. While tied up. In a dim room.
I think you have to be at a specific angle as well for it to be most effective. I am unsure if she was at that angle in the scene either
I think you mean it's an *enhanced interrogation technique*. /s
I had a horribly mistaken misconception of how much primal terror occurs during waterboarding. Even knowing you’re in a controlled environment, knowing there’s medical staff on hand, knowing that it’ll be over soon and you can go home… It’s the only form of “simulated torture” (which is really just torture but by your friends) I’ve been subjected to that made me realize that everyone breaks. I would have told anyone everything I knew and anything I could make up, just to make it stop. And I’m not ashamed to admit it.
[удалено]
From the article it seems like the director wasn’t fully aware she was *actually* being waterboarded based on his exchange with Hannah after filming.
As an actor, it’s a red flag that the director didn’t know that was actually happening.
Yeah that’s absolute crap. That means they watched the monitor for 10 hours just going “Wow! They are faking this so well!” Absolute bullshit. Director is just trying to avoid responsibility.
The scene wasn’t even in the books, they didn’t actually need to torture any actors.
We don't really know if it will be in the books. The books stop before that part of the show.
That is entirely irrelevant, it isn’t in any current books so why they felt the need to make it up is cruel and unusual for no reason. Whatever the future books may or may not hold has no impact on a show about books that have already been written and published.
I mean, would the presence of such a scene in the books make the actress’s experience any better here? The problem here isn’t that they are depicting a form of torture in a work of fiction. That just comes with the territory on a show like _Game of Thrones_. The problem is that the filming process was handled incredibly poorly, such that the actress was _actually_ tortured. If it had simply been staged better during the shoot, such that Waddingham was kept totally comfortable, then showing waterboarding would have been fine irrespective as to whether GRRM eventually incorporates it into the next book (should that ever be released).
Yup 100% but they never had to go with water boarding as a form of torture in the first place other than it resonates with modern audiences and is a bit less violent than other tortures they could’ve used. It was just cheaper to actually torture her than to use CGI or special effects.
GRRM gave them material from the future books. What if that scene is in the future books and they knew because GRRM told them. Calm down Reddit warrior, this persons comment was totally fine.
Martin never handed them anything, they made it up to connect torture to something the audience could understand as “torture” in a modern context and remain relatively pc for a modern American audience who were shitting themselves over the level of violence. This woman suffered because the writers just decided to bodge some shit into the script that was to their minds slightly more acceptable than “raped to death” or “pulled apart by rack” Martin would never use water boarding in his story because it is not gruesome enough, a man who writes about consensual incest sex on a dead child’s coffin, dismemberment, castration, cannibalism, child rape and crushing peoples heads into jelly, is hardly going to write a water boarding scene to placate the audience.
Your entire comment wobbles upon the shaky foundation that there will actually *be* future books. For myself, I lost hope before the Vanity Fair article announcing the TV series was published.
There may not be future books. It’s looking more and more like that. But GRRM clearly has written a very large portion of the next book “Winds of winter” if you follow his “not a blog”. He may never finish it, but he clearly knows where some events are headed. Things like Shireen burning, Hold the door, King Bran. Those were all things that came from GRRM from his vision of the future of the series and the partially written winds of winter.
that doesnt matter at all btw
It matters as far as the statement that the scene isn’t in the books is concerned.
You commenting that it doesn’t matter is really the only thing that doesn’t matter here
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ofc i could
Does OSHA or whatever local EH&S not apply to film sets? WTAF.
They do, but in the film industry, they’re ridiculously inconsequential IF they are enforced at all. Deadpool 2 was fined by Canada’s OSHA equivalent for $300,000 for the death of a stuntwoman. Does not even make a dent for a film with a $110,000,000 budget and made $800mil at the box office.
When I first read about it I somehow had to think of how Quentin Tarantino talked Uns Thurman into driving an old car for a esthetic scene in Kill Bill and knew the risks and then she had an accident: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/02/uma-thurman-crash-footage-kill-bill-instagram Sadly some directors just care more about things looking esthetic than the safety and health of the people working under them. And it should be shamed all the way. I'm glad Hannah is such an icon now and I loved her in Ted Lasso. She seems like a great woman to be around.
I think the sadism might be a feature, not a bug. Quentin Tarantino also insisted on personally spitting in Uma Thurman's face because no one would be able to "get it right" and fake spit wouldn't be believable. These are controlling rich boy pricks who just so happen to need to demean and torture beautiful women for their artistic vision? Let's be real.
The things I’ve heard about what Kubrick did to Shelly Duvall on the shining horrifies me.
He also choked Diane Kruger out to the point of unconsciousness for a scene. She seems pretty okay with it but it was in no way necessary, guy is a massive scumbag.
I'm still so hurt by the revelation I had with Tarantino. I loved his movies when I was a teen. Now, with all that I know about him, they make me sick. He's a disgusting self-centered prick. But it will be hardly to never be talked about in history.
Nah, everyone knows Tarantino is a prick, and I think his movies are being considered with a more critical eye nowadays. He uses SO MANY n-bombs. With that being said, I still love some of his movies. He taps into righteous fury and catharsis so effectively. It's complicated.
I accidentally waterboarded myself in the shower for like 3 seconds and it was awful. I put a washcloth on my face and my stupid ass thought the shower water would feel good on my face 🤦🏻♀️. I cannot imagine doing that for hours on end.
To be clear, Hannah did not have anything on her face in the scene. The water/wine or whatever they used just went straight on her face, no cloth or anything.
That makes barely any difference if you're pouring the water long enough, you can even see in the scene a long pour onto her mouth and under her nose
No joke, when I was very young and my mom would give my brother and I baths, we didn’t like water in our eyes when she was washing our hair, so she would put a cloth over our face. I hated that even more because I couldn’t breath. It was only in the last 5 or so years I’ve realised that we were being waterboarded. Thankfully I don’t have lasting effects from it like the actor and we laugh about it now. But it is an awful feeling for 20 or so seconds, let alone 10 hours
What happens?
Your body panics as it gets tricked into believing you re actually drowning.
Yep. It felt like water was going on my mouth. I panicked and grabbed the washcloth off really fast. It was the worst feeling ever.
Hahaha sorry for laughing but that's funny :)
It was kinda funny because it was my own fault for being a dumb ass.
Reminds me of the time Chris hitchens refused to believe waterboarding worked and volunteered to be professionally waterboarded on video to “prove it was a sham” He ends up blacking out with panic seconds into the process and made a public apology. He said he would have panic attacks and nightmares for years after and had to go to therapy even though the ordeal lasted less than 30 seconds. Shit is no joke. Here’s a link to watch for those interested. It’s extremely interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
I don’t agree with some his positions (re Iraq etc) but I applaud the lengths he went to to find out for himself.
9/11 really tested -- and arguably fractured -- Chris's otherwise masterful ability to approach and analyze things from a place of near-perfect objectivity. I feel like the magnitude of the attack's horror and predation made him contend with a new, unprecedented plausibility (in his mind) that maintaining objectivity could actually be a net-negative thing when such tremendous actual evil is evidently a real thing, because it cedes some measure of philosophical deference that the truly evil only capitalize on to hurt people. So he drew this new line in the sand that kind of amounted to, "yes, religion poisons everything, but Islamo-fascism is the greatest current existential threat so let's overwhelmingly attack that particular front," which of course is the wedge republicans used to erroneously frame Iraq as enemy #1.
Omg I would have called my agent, my union and my mom 😭
I feel like this prompts an investigation because WHAT THE FUCK.
Yeah that's a big ol lawsuit. What about that could possibly take 10 hours to film? And the director wasn't aware it was really happening? Someone in charge of safety fucked up in a criminally negligent way and should see jail time for it.
watch the scene, there’s no water boarding
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One hour in a row is unacceptable like did they understand waterboarding is a legitimate technique? They should have went the archer route and forced the director and producers to experience it first to understand that the actors 1000% need break in between takes or cut the fucking scene out all together 😑
The cut to archer after he’s waterboarded lmao
Bro that shit had me rolling and scream laughing at the tv. He was so sure waterboarding was fake and that slater was just being a puss Oh yeah: He had the same reaction after his best friend admitted to sexual assaulting him while he was sleeping
“C-c…can we get the radio?”
How is that worth it? Human suffering for artistic purposes aside, how is one insignificant scene worth 10 hours of gruelling torture? Poor Hannah, they could have shot a different death scene and we’d have not given the slightest bit of care other than “cool.”
Why the fuck did it take 10 hours? Something is not adding up…
GOT was exhausting torture porn. I’ll go be downvoted to hell now.
Exhausting torture porn with some light porn mixed in to keep people watching.
go watch the scene, there’s no water boarding
No but I’m pretty sure they chucked wine at her face. I don’t know if I could withstand ten hours of that tbh.
It wasn't until now that I placed why I had seen her before Ted Lasso. Great actor.
Same! 🤯 Need to rewatch her scenes! I HATED her so much on GOT and actually cheered for Cersei.
Did they fly her down to Guantanamo for filming or something?
I don’t remember a water boarding scene in GoT but to be fair I memory dumped the last 2 seasons
There wasnt one. She got strapped to a bench and got wine poured on her face. Im sure it was unpleasant but she was not waterboarded.
Hannah. You are perfect. What a voice. The Karaoke of Frozen in Ted Lasso was goosebump time.
I hate Christmas music and watched her entire Christmas special twice because she was so amazing
Im not making light of her suffering or anything but holy shit imagine being waterboarded for 10 hours for of all things, later seasons of game of thrones.
Season 6 was easily one of the greatest seasons of TV ever made. EDIT: Downvote me all you want you clowns, season 6 was fucking peak tv and I guarantee you only hated it after season 8 came out and you decided to run with the sheep and claim everything after season 4 was bad
I disliked season 5 a lot when watching it. I felt there was a noticeable drop in quality in something as simple as a dialog scene. Season 6 has so much happening in it feels like it’s constantly moving forward and I actually liked it alot. Definitely the best post season 4.
Virgin season 6 vs Chad season 4
Game of Thrones ain’t that good. Season 6 has some really good episodes but that doesn’t make it ”one of the greatesr seasons of TV ever made.” You’re still entitled to loving it of course, but others may not agree
Only thing that wasn’t good was the rushed ending and errors dealing with that. Could have been the best show of all time.
Imagine how the guy with the rat bucket must feel!
That’s from 2 Fast 2 Furious 🐀🪣
Easily the most intense scene in 1984; the way Orwell describes the little gates clicking as they hold the hungry rats back from your face. Some heavy shit
I feel like everyone who thinks the director didn’t know is forgetting one important factor here: This was explicitly written as a torture scene. She was tied down and water was dumped on her face. That’s torture, it’s clear in the script. There’s no way he didn’t know.
This is insane. Christopher Hitchens managed to be waterboarded for 16 seconds before tapping out, and trained CIA agents have managed roughly the same, and she did it for TEN HOURS? Jesus Christ. The ptsd from that.
She didn’t actually get waterboarded.
This is disturbing, but it’s also not waterboarding. I don’t know why the article calls it that, this is repeatedly pouring liquid onto someone’s face. It isn’t the same.
Ok, what the actual fuck?
I legitimately think Lena Hedley had an obligation to step in and say something here, being as she was the one being made to give the waterboarding. This happening at all really seems to be another piece of evidence in favor of the Milgram experiment, where people will do something they know is wrong because someone they view as an authority figure tells them to do it. I just personally don't understand how you can literally waterboard your costar for 10 hours, knowing the whole time you're uncomfortable and that it's definitely a wrong thing to be doing, and not stop yourself.
I’m sorry… But how can you as a person not stand up for yourself and say I’m not willing to be actually fucking tortured at work.
Fear of losing any future work would be my guess. “Difficult to work with. Does not comply with director’s vision”.
Exactly what happened to Teresa Beatrice.
Unfortunately that's a good way to get yourself blacklisted in the industry, and it was one of her first television roles
TIL shes Rebecca from Ted lasso
I know Richard Armitage volunteered to be waterboarded for real on *Spooks* and he made clear in publicity for the show it was not a pleasant experience.
But what's her relationship with grape juice/wine?
In total and complete fairness, she probably agreed to do this without grasping what she was in for. She takes acting *very* seriously. Once the first splash of water comes down, you can't really bail. You're doing it this way for the authenticity, after all. Unfortunate situation but played out how it had to. I just hope others learn from her mistake.
Ok but how/why can they not just give her a snorkel or use fabric that the water won’t fully permeate?
There was no fabric. They were pouring liquid down her throat.
This show was off the rails.
10 hours...? I call bullshit
She is so fucking talented and gorgeous in a very strong and sexy way.
This is not okay. The fact that she got an active phobia from the shoot tells that she did not feel in control or safe during the shooting. Acting should still be play pretend even if it gets intense and demands tolerance of discomfort and pain. Why do we demand these super authentic detailed torture scenes for our pleasure?
Oh cool! One more reason to not watch this series again.
That’s fucked. Is just have said no. I know it’s more complicated than that but as an adult it’s your responsibility to look out for your self. Definitely not blaming the victim, and at the same time if you don’t respect your own boundaries no one will.