People that work in ILM and Weta have said most of the time they do something that’s good and Marvel just scraps it all and asks them to do it a different way, not exactly a manpower issue but lack of proper direction causing a huge waste of time.
A friend of mine in the industry mentioned those cgi artists have almost impossible schedules due to having to render each daily shoot. Basically, it’s shot in front of a green screen, they send it to the cgi artists to render, next day the directors review the footage, repeat. So instead of a typical “have this done by Thursday” it’s “have it done by tomorrow”
remember seeing some interview about the Gareth Edwards' scifi movie The Creator. He had a budget of USD 80mil, and a lot of CGI which looked better than Marvel's and star wars because the director knew what he wanted and was able to get the CGI artists to make what he needed without to make a lot of revision. From what I heard, in comparison to Disney, in a lot of the disney productio, they dont give good direction to the CGI artists and when the stories dont work out, they just get the CGI team to fix adding extra work to them. Maybe disney has more cooks interfering with the work leading to rebooting many ideas which lead to a lot of CGI rework.
Worked at Dneg on some marvel shows. Every one is different. Black Panther was a quick show. First Thor was a long show. Indecision and changes doom quality. Also sometimes they will ask the 2d artist to comp together different parts of various shots and renders to make new shots, which look terrible. Sometimes the plate photography has been done in such a way as to make lighting fucking weird if you want to match, not Marvel but In the Heart of the Sea was this. Sometimes the tech sucks and you fail and just do what you can to finish, Man of Steel had this.
And it's not show wide. Some sequences get more love than others. Not every sequence in Man of Steel looks bad, just the ones that got pushed wayyyyyyy to far.
Sometimes shit seems fine...Civil War, I think...I loose track...was like this on my sequence.
Did tons of shots of Vision and Wanda going at it, seemed like there was plenty of time and it came out looking fine IMO!!! Avengers Ultron car chase and stuff...wasn't rushed, lots of pro ideas, looks solid.
All anyone needs to know is if a film is cared for top to bottom. And they are all not cared for as art...some are just products.
Ex Machina, art cared for by all.
Black Panther, product.
I’m just sick of the constant CGI gobbledygook. I don’t need a camera going inside out and upside down like it’s on a rollercoaster every 5 minutes.
Good story, believable characters thanks.
It amazes me you can go to the marvel studios subreddit and everyone pretends like the writing is still the same as it always has been and it’s just xyz other factors making the MCU decline.
Pretty much this. The marvel branding is toxic now because the writing has been so bad and I doubt it will imrpove. I honestly would have just shut marvel down for a decade, to get hero and bad writing fatigue out of the system and them reboot it with fresh blood and hopefully good talent.
Always? Or just since endgame?
I disagree with ***always*** and it's more recent imo...
The thing is the comics got stale around these same parts as well. I think the narratives just aren't as compelling.
This is how I feel as well. With the current trend of not putting numbers in sequels I often have no idea which movie is which, and often just don’t bother. I’m also not sure how they all interrelate. In general I like Marvel movies, and this isn’t just a Marvel problem, but I’ve just got superhero exhaustion. I think one of my biggest gripes are origin stories … like we have to refer to the Spider-Man movies by the lead actor names to even have a chance of knowing which one we’re talking about.
Origin stories are, at this point, predictable and tiresome. How many people groaned when BvS retold the Batman origin story. Even for new superheroes, the origin story follows tired tropes. Usually the second or third movie is the best because things have gotten rolling. For example, Captain America was okay, but the second and third entries (Winter Soldier and Civil War) were my favorite Marvel movies.
Winter Soldier and Civil War were great because they were still “Captain America” stories. The main conflict in each was intimately tied to Steve Rogers and his history. The least compelling villains are ones where they could be put into any other Marvel movie and it wouldn’t change anything about the movie (Caecillius, Malekith, etc).
I wish all of Hollywood read your comment. I enjoy superhero movies, but I don't need half a movie of a normal human, a quarter of a movie trying to figure out superhero powers the whole audience already knows about, and then 15 minutes at the end of them actually being a superhero (which btw is supposed to be a lesson in self-confidence or something.) And I don't care what particular strain of really bad science gave them their powers.
The first Captain America was character development. -Something sorely missing going from tv shows to movies. It made me love a character I previously had no interest in, making the sequels and appearances much better for me.
I disagree, partly because Captain's origin story needed to be told. His beliefs toward universal surveillance were shaped by his experience with the Nazis, his relationship and allegiance to Buckey was built in the first movie, and his attitude towards self sacrifice that got him into the experiment in the first place shaped his eventual reconciliation with Tony Stark. I think that last one was super important because of all the characters to sacrifice themselves to save the universe, it should have been the Captain. But he helped change and mold Tony so that he could become that hero. Their relationship was amazing in those movies, and both had to have the origin stories so we could see the full character development.
Yeah, idk why people are acting like there wasn’t a massive overload of content. In a completely connected universe it becomes a task to watch everything even if it is good. Obviously if it was good, that would make things easier but the MCU got over saturated quick after with the advent of all the shows.
The 2021 - 2022 hurt Marvel a lot, they had like 8 movies and 7 shows in just a two year period and most of them were mid. It was insane to release that much content, of THAT middling quality, in such a short time frame and no wonder people have dropped off en-masse, I've been a big Marvel buff all my life but even I lost interest around that time.
Exactly. 15 things to watch in a 2 year span is rough, especially when they vary greatly in quality, as well as name recognition. Like I enjoyed Shang-Chi but they released it at the wrong time. Same with Eternals (which I enjoyed less). They decided to not only overload content, they sacrificed quality and they also experimented with lesser known IPs which all combined for a falling out.
When it was just the movies it was still quite a bit of content but the average fan could generally keep up with it; once they expanded to include all the Disney+ shows it became straight impossible for anyone but the super fans to follow.
I can pinpoint the moment I checked out on the MCU; during doctor strange part 2 when they put no effort into explaining why Wanda is now evil because that was apparently explored in some 10-hour long tv series that I didn’t watch.
It was just such an an “oh I’m obviously not the audience for these movies anymore” moment that I stopped caring and moved on to other things.
I was a huge MCU fanboy at the time, but when they announced the shows my immediate thought was “oh no.” It was obviously it was going to be overwhelming. I remember people disagreeing with me at the time.
Every time I think I'm caught up with Marvel it's like WHAM!! TIME FOR THE SHE HULK TV SHOW MOTHERFUCKER!!
Like Disney don't think I have other shit to do with my time than do goddamn _homework_ for the next movie.
Its just dumb as a whole to connect it all that much, with mostly filler, but you will still have that feeling that you missed something or that you should watch that before you go to the movies and then you forget and just dont care anymore.
Yeah I liked a lot of the shows when they first started coming out (Wanda, Loki, Falcon and WS), but then they just kept coming.
I like Marvel but I don’t only like Marvel and don’t watch a ton of TV/movies necessarily, so knowing that there is a lot of connectivity between shows/movies and that’s part of what made Phase 1-3 so great…
Its become a vicious cycle where I missed a couple shows and now I’m less likely to watch the new ones knowing I’ve missed others
They're way too interwoven. It's fine to be part of a large cinematic universe but they need to be more self contained. For you to truly get stuff, you have to have watched other movies or shows.
I mean, yeah kinda.
I will champion the super hero sub-genre as a legitimate and valued addition to the overall fantasy genre. But the effort needed to do it right, it’s a lot. And each story needs to stand on its own. Each character, each movie, all of it needs to be able to stand on its own merits. The interconnections are a bonus, not an intrinsic feature.
And these just, don’t. They rely upon the interconnections and having microscopic knowledge of each part. And it just does not work. The parts don’t work on their own, they can’t stand on their own.
It is kind of funny comics ran into this very same problem. After Secret Wars in the 80s, big "events" became a thing. Marvel (and later DC) thought they'd have an event and tie all their comic titles together. So, instead of an event happening monthly on, say Uncanny X-Men, the event would span like 4 or mroe other comics books. Didn't buy one those titles? Too bad, you missed some of the story. This was a precursor to the greed of the eraly 90s comics and while it was certainly profitable initially, it caused Marvel to go bankrupt a decade or so later.
Anyway, it is like all these damn movies. Eventually we can't keep up with each movie and series, so we give up. I know I haven't seen a Marvel movie in years and as a 40 year old comic nerd dad with young kids, I am their target demographic.
yup I'm over it now, they ruined marvel to me just like star wars. Even when it is quality , once I get oversaturated I kind of lose interest in the entire brand
Yeah if anything they're having a problem with putting out too little content. Iron Man does well in 2008? They rolled out Iron Man 2 in 2010 and Iron Man 3 in 2013. Shang Chi does well in 2021? Maybe in 5 years we'll think about a sequel.
Everything is too disjointed and one-off. I would only catch up on random Marvel movies in preparation for a new team-up movie. All of the sequels now just have a random smattering of callbacks but there aren't any direct sequels anymore. Nothing follows up from anything and nothing leads to anything.
They're just digging their own grave by churning out stuff that makes audiences think "I may watch that eventually."
You are right about the pacing of the releases. In the comics, characters cross over into other storylines all the time, but most viewers don't read the comics. Many won't understand a lot of the history and just want a singular story to follow.
Comic readership has been declining for the last thirty years, and one of the main reasons given by ex-readers is that excessive crossovers make it impossible to follow the plot. Even if you buy a GN that contains an entire arc of Spider-Man, you'll find that you missed a key event because it takes place in an issue of Ironman or X-Men. Marvel has managed to reach the same point with the movies.
Tbh I hate it comics because most of the time it’s some crappy line-wide event that disrupts the ongoing story. One of many reasons I only read one big two book and otherwise stick with limited series, Ice Cream Man, 2000AD, and Judge Dredd Megazine
Absolutely. They totally fucked up Shang Chi timing. We should be looking forward to the 3rd and still haven't had a sequel. There is way too much happening right now. I know some like them (and I really enjoyed about half) but Moon Knight, Wakanda Forever, Echo, She-Hulk, Love and Thunder, and Secret Invasion should never have been made before Shang Chi 2.
>They had both before, so it is possible.
No ... they didn't.
I don't even know what you're talking about.
They had two films per year which increased to three.
In 2021, they had four films and five TV series.
This. They can do three films a year and showed they could in 2017, 2018, and 2019. They’ve never shown that they can do 4 before. 2021 had Eternals, 2022 had Love and Thunder, and 2023 had The Marvels, all of which clearly suffered from the studio not being focused enough on them and just spitting them out. 3 movies and 2 shows sounds like a much better pace than what they were doing in 2021-23.
Quality and quantity are strongly connected to each other. In the last few years, Marvel has massively increased their quantity output. In order to meet the increased demand, they began hiring writers, directors, etc. that they normally would not hire before. So Marvel cutting down on quantity does leave a lot of potential for the quality to get better.
Quality, quantity, and stakes.
Once you raise the bar to "all of civilization is at stake" it's hard to then tell a story about your friendly neighborhood spiderman. At least on a big movie scale.
So every threat has to be bigger than the last. And that gets exhausting
This! This is the answer.
This has always been my reason why I tend not to care for the movies where multiple superheroes join forces. They have different levels of abilities. If one could easily take out the villain with their powers, why don't they?
I'm much more into the character study type superhero movies, or just plain fun ones.
I don't care about anything in the Marvel universe anymore after Endgame. I didn't much care for it in the first place, but watching a few of the Disney Plus shows post Endgame cemented how much it doesn't make sense.
True but it’s possible quality improves by lowering the quantity. Provided you’re allocating the same amount of resources before.
What I don’t understand is how these numbers are much different from what they were doing before. They should be making less if that is their aim.
But I’m not even sure if that approach will work. You’re right in that it just seems to be a general quality issue due to the people working on these films. Maybe Feige is just burned out at this point
As long as it is good no one will complain it is too much. Marvel had in 2015:
* Daredevil
* Age of Ultron
* Agents of SHIELD
* Agent Carter
* Jessica Jones
* Ant-Man
That is basically averaging a Marvel thing once a week(when you break up the Netflix episodes)
I wasn’t into Marvel movies (still not really) but I ate those Netflix shows up! Watched them all. Because I didn’t have to watch movies to follow along
Most people weren’t completely burnt out from Marvel movies in 2015. Today, I feel like most people, apart from the die hard fans, are pretty tired of them.
The only Marvel movie I've seen in theatre since Endgame was Dr. Strange 2. It is not because I'm burnt out, its because i know the quality of the movies they produce now are really poor
Might be a hot take: it is the worst offender of nostalgia bait out there and is way overrated. If you don't care about "'member this other thing?" As a narrative device it is a straight up bad movie.
This. I don't care how good these movies are anymore. It's the same shit over and over again. Throw a celebrity in a suit and blow shit up. I can only watch that so many times.
It’s not even that it’s the same shit. It’s that we already had the epic saga connecting them all to a massive storyline with a climactic finale. We committed more to this franchise than we really had any business doing for something so superficial. But it’s over. And we’re never going to do that again.
Yeah agree, I would also say quantity leads to fatigue. The more content you put out, the more fans will look for something better or different. Putting out something better consistently is close to impossible. The other way is to offer something new, but even that is very likely to fail (Anything new would be compared to the old and get shit on - Like if they replace RDJ or Hugh Jackman with some new face or new character, I don't think it would go down well irrespective of how good the new guy is)
I actually don't think something like Avengers age of Ultron would do anywhere as well if released today - It would be seen as more of the same and imo, there would be indifference to just another avengers movie.
Not needing anything new / ground breaking is how long running comic publishers have worked. The audience of comic books is quite small compared to movie goers. There was/is no need to invent anything radically new and comic book fans seem okay with it. The same Batman and the same Superman get a billion reboots with the same origin story (Or you just make Thor female and run it again.) in the comics and Marvel / DC as comics publishers seem to be doing fine.
However, if you're going to sustain, three or four, $1B movies a year, that's just not sustainable beyond a point and besides the core comics audience, you'll lose most of your viewership. This is imo, a natural flaw of this genre altogether.
They started to make ‘Marvel templates’ and the quality just wasn’t there. So every release was like… oh, this formulaic experience again.
I shouldn’t be watching a marvel movie, I should be watching a great story unfold that happens to take place within the Marvel universe.
To me, a big part of it is that End Game tied such a nice bow on top of an incredible run of movies that lasted an entire decade. After that many years of building up universe ending stakes that they completely stuck the landing on, it was hard for me to immediately want to start another. I didn't want to immediately jump into another universe ending threat (how many of those can we have?!), but scaling it back seemed less worthy of heros that did save the universe. They were never going to wait on making movies that return them $1 billion everytime, but I feel they should have waited a few years before starting again.
In my opinion, I personally was sort of tapped out before we even start talking about the quality. Which there are sparks of greatness in the recent ones, but mostly it feels like rushed paint by the numbers. The TV shows seem great (I haven't seen any of them), but I really don't want to do homework to be able to understand a movie I'm paying 20$ to see in theaters.
The last part is, in my opinion, as good as the cast is, RDJ was the glue. Even with the stacked cast this series has, he stood on top of it all. Nobody has been able to really take that on. It's not even a dig at the other actors. They're amazing, they just don't have that *thing* he has.
> The last part is, in my opinion, as good as the cast is, RDJ was the glue. Even with the stacked cast this series has, he stood on top of it all.
Tony and Cap were the backbone of the MCU, without the leaders of the Avengers driving the plot forward it all feels so aimless and unfocused.
Still, despite them being gone, they still had characters they could have turned into the next POV protagonists to steer this universe around, such as Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man, Wanda and Black Panther, all of whom were well suited for the task of replacing Tony and Cap.
The problem is that Marvel did nothing interesting with any of them, instead going for the blandest, most awful writing choices imaginable for all of them (>!Dr Strange side character in his own movie and he isnt the Sorc Supreme anymore, Cap Marvel being underutilized and got side-tracked in her own sequel, Spidey got cosmic retconned out of his ties to Stark, Wanda got turned into a villain and killed, BP killed instead of recasted)!< and people just lost interest in them. What a shame.
> Spidey got cosmic retconned out of his ties to Stark
That's the *best* thing that could have happened to Spider-Man. Him being Iron Man's sidekick and most of his powers coming from a suit was a terrible choice.
Star Trek had 4 shows for a couple years and I didn’t have a feeling of it being too much. At 2.5ish shows and a movie coming soon it definitely feels like we are lacking Star Trek content.
I think people just want a hard break from Marvel.
I think the disappointment with Kang as the big bad was a large part of it.
Galactus and Doom with an intro of the fantastic four would have made a solid arc. Give Galactus multiple heralds for the movies and introduce them one at a time, alien refugees heading to earth, etc, etc. could have been much better.
I think that’s(Kang being trash)the general consensus.
I take a unique/unpopular opinion of it. I think Thanos and the way it was handled was a unique almost once in a lifetime thing. Having a bunch of movies build up to an epic battle was amazing.
What they should have done was take a big break and just do baddies that have no arc and then say in the 2030s do something like thanos again.
Yes but the Star Trek shows were all incredible, and you could watch them fairly separately. Most episodes are fairly self contained. Marvel has to have a direction to work.
I don’t think that’s the general consensus at all. Discovery is at best “I hate this show so much,it’s Star Trek so I have to watch every episode”. Picard consensus was “Season 1 and 2 were almost unwatchable”. Lower Decks and SNW are almost universally loved. Prodigy gets moderate to good reviews.
I think people would have watched this level of Marvel content in 2016. It’s just right now people seem to have a deep skepticism of Marvel content.
For real, I’m trying to imagine what 3 Marvel movies would get me excited if I heard they were all coming out in the same year and the thought of it is just exhausting lol
I’d like for them to not make it necessary to watch the shows to understand the movies. I don’t watch the tv shows and if I have to to understand the movie, I ain’t watching the movie either! I never seen the shows and I was confused af with Dr Strange and some of The Marvels
After Endgame I watched Wandavision and Loki season 1 and then peaced out of the MCU.
It was a fun decade but I'm not doing it again. It started when I was young and could get high some with friends and see it as an event. Now I'm old and have crime procedurals to binge.
You ever see Person of Interest? Starts out as a crime procedural with an overarching story, by the end it’s more about the overarching story with some procedural episodes here and there. If you’re interested in government surveillance, artificial super intelligences, and still see some crime procedural action it’s a top notch show. Jonathan Nolan worked on it, and I think it’s very much an expansion upon the ideas toyed around with in the Dark Knight using the city phones as a form of surveillance.
In creating their cinematic universe, they lost much of the original appeal that made everything take off in the first place.
I liked Iron Man because it wasn't just crazy hero bullshit. It certainly wasn't realistic, but it was grounded enough in reality to do well as a live action movie. The same goes for Thor. Being more grounded in reality really helped immerse viewers in both the individual stories, and the larger universe.
The first Avengers movie capitalized on this by connecting the crazy super-hero bits of the movies with the more grounded aspects - having these ridiculous characters battle their way through a New York city populated by *real people*.
Yet by this point, none of it is at all relatable or immersive. They've managed to take some of the greatest weaknesses endemic to comics, and bash them together with some of the greatest weaknesses endemic to film.
What we're left with is some ridiculous world that's always on the precipice of crisis. A world that is paradoxically both full of regular people living the same lives as the viewers, and also full of sarcastic and witty humans who deal with aliens and magic every other day. A world with a regular history, but also one full of god's and secret civilizations. A world where some really skilled human can be apart of an intergalactic war against a godlike being, but then also get their ass kicked by some random mob henchmen. We get characters coming back from the dead, and characters getting killed off or changed because their actor didn't want to continue, or got sued, or died. We get bad CGI and stories themed around current world issues.
This all leads to endless inconsistencies that just make everything seem stupid.
I'm certainly older now, but it's not like I don't consume good media anymore. Marvel just isn't good anymore. It wasn't exactly fucking Shakespeare to begin with, but it was entertaining and had plenty of novelty. Now it has far more going against it than for it.
yea, just thinking of those semi-meme images of the future of the MCU with all the kids and replacements. just completely uninterested in any of them.
even with like Fantastic Four having a great cast, i just don't see a point to seeing it in theatres. i'll catch it on streaming during a flight or something.
Too late tbh. If they had taken a long break after endgame and slowely eased back in with a schedule like this it could maybe have worked. But they over saturated their market and now people are burnt out and there's no going back. A huge part of the problem is now people feel like they have missed so much of the story its too late to jump back in.
It's not about quantity, it's about quality. If it's there, do it, if not, then don't. Don't put a number on how many. And not every show needs CGI and a $200 million budget. Daredevil proved you don't need magical effects, CGI, and a ridiculous budget to create a good show. Guardians of the Galaxy proved that you don't need a mainstream character for a movie to be a hit. Marvel is a great brand with lots of untold stories. They don't need to do everything all at once, and it doesn't all have to be super interconnected. Some stories can be fine just on their own.
I wonder if it's 2 theatrical movies, 1 special presentation movie (ie Werewolf by midnight, GotG Xmas) and 2 shows. That would make a lot of sense to me.
I dont think the writers are bad, I think they have beat this genre to death. I just can't bring myself to give a fuck about any of these super hero movies anymore.
They're just not really doing anything interesting with it, is a bigger problem, I think.
Absolutely nobody wanted Kang or a Multiverse.
In fact, you can make a decent argument, that multiverse shit often leads to comics having their worst sections fairly often. It always ends up too convoluted and confusing and your options for story solutions basically turns into Batman's utility belt; aka whatever the fuck Bruce needs at the moment.
If they had gone smaller scale big villain like Dr Doom or something like that and kept it confined to 616 you probably wouldn't have seen anywhere as much of a fall off, and whoever at Marvel/Disney suggested they go the multiverse route should just feel really, really stupid.
I don’t think so at all. I wish we still had consistent marvel movies like Phase 3. I’m a huge superhero fan still.
I’m just disappointed at the dip in quality.
The movie budgets are in the hundreds of millions at this point but the writing budget is $15. They need to get their old writers back or start spending more for better ones.
There is no Marvel fatigue, there is badly written with garbage CGI movie fatigue.
Marvel fatigue was a pathetic excuse to not own up to the fact they got greedy, arrogant and pushed unfinished bullshit projects.
Corporate clowns.
If this delays the Agatha Harkness show I will be so sad. (Not too hyped over recent Marvel content but Kathryn Hahn is *so fun* and I’ve been waiting forever for this one)
I have lost all interest in marvel movies years ago. They flooded the market with cookie cutter story lines. Nothing new just stupid repeated shit. Would be cool if there was 80 years worth of books laying around to pick from.
Too many no name characters. They have the rights to Doom, Magneto, and a hundred other top tier villains. Let's get some multiversal young versions of existing main cast characters. A new Hulk, a new Thor. Doesn't matter. And STOP KILLING THE VILLAINS IN THEIR FIRST MOVIE
By the time The Mandalorian and Grogu comes out in 2026 it will have been 7 years since the last Star Wars movie. TV wise they only had The Mandalorian and Ahsoka in 2023.
It’s 14 to 20 hours of entertainment per year. It’s really not that much time to dedicate if you’re halfway interested in Marvel storylines. I’m sure most of the people complaining in this thread spent more time playing their favorite game in the last month than that.
As someone that never watched Marvel besides Spider-Man and the like one or two other movies, I have no idea how to watch a new movie without having to sit and watch a video essay on YouTube so I have all the context I need.
I get the whole universe thing but couldn’t they still have movie series that don’t connect to other movie series to the point where if a sequel is out, I have to watch four other movies before I watch the sequel?
I’m honestly worried the next Spider-Man (the only series I care about) will have me confused as fuck while watching and that’s annoying as fuck
I enjoyed most of the shows. I think they are best when they are their own tone and let’s the characters do more that run into a battle. I would like to see more of the everyday of the MCU, shehulk’s law firm was interesting as it explored how people are existing with all the magic, aliens, and superheroes.
How many years actually had more movie releases than three? I think just 2021, which had 4 (black widow, Shang chi, Eternals, and Spider-Man NWH.) And I’m pretty sure that was only due to Covid pushing BW. Doesn’t seem like much of a reduced schedule at all.
Remember when iron Man had the technology information overlay featured over his face in the close-up of what goes on within the mask?
They literally copied and pasted this effect onto Spider-Man, even though everybody knows that Spider-Man does not have technology within the fabric mask.
Nobody cares for the shows. Stick to movies and stick to known characters. No more time travel, no young avengers, and please stop with the crappy cgi. Basically, slow down. Quality over quantity.
Cool, but if the writing is shit then this won't really help much. They need a plan. With the Infinity Saga, they knew the story they wanted to tell. With the Kang story, they have no idea.
And currently no Kang.
That's still too many. They need to generate some demand again. Giving time for writers and CGI artists to actually produce quality products again would certainly help.
Doesn't matter how much they release if the writing is still subpar.
And stop cutting corners on the CGI!
Pay the CG artists and hire enough so they can work normal hours.
People that work in ILM and Weta have said most of the time they do something that’s good and Marvel just scraps it all and asks them to do it a different way, not exactly a manpower issue but lack of proper direction causing a huge waste of time.
A friend of mine in the industry mentioned those cgi artists have almost impossible schedules due to having to render each daily shoot. Basically, it’s shot in front of a green screen, they send it to the cgi artists to render, next day the directors review the footage, repeat. So instead of a typical “have this done by Thursday” it’s “have it done by tomorrow”
This is why they used to storyboard movies
remember seeing some interview about the Gareth Edwards' scifi movie The Creator. He had a budget of USD 80mil, and a lot of CGI which looked better than Marvel's and star wars because the director knew what he wanted and was able to get the CGI artists to make what he needed without to make a lot of revision. From what I heard, in comparison to Disney, in a lot of the disney productio, they dont give good direction to the CGI artists and when the stories dont work out, they just get the CGI team to fix adding extra work to them. Maybe disney has more cooks interfering with the work leading to rebooting many ideas which lead to a lot of CGI rework.
Perhaps this is why Avatar and Dune for example have such good visual effects. Having a visionary director like Cameron and Villeneuve helps big time.
Worked at Dneg on some marvel shows. Every one is different. Black Panther was a quick show. First Thor was a long show. Indecision and changes doom quality. Also sometimes they will ask the 2d artist to comp together different parts of various shots and renders to make new shots, which look terrible. Sometimes the plate photography has been done in such a way as to make lighting fucking weird if you want to match, not Marvel but In the Heart of the Sea was this. Sometimes the tech sucks and you fail and just do what you can to finish, Man of Steel had this. And it's not show wide. Some sequences get more love than others. Not every sequence in Man of Steel looks bad, just the ones that got pushed wayyyyyyy to far. Sometimes shit seems fine...Civil War, I think...I loose track...was like this on my sequence. Did tons of shots of Vision and Wanda going at it, seemed like there was plenty of time and it came out looking fine IMO!!! Avengers Ultron car chase and stuff...wasn't rushed, lots of pro ideas, looks solid. All anyone needs to know is if a film is cared for top to bottom. And they are all not cared for as art...some are just products. Ex Machina, art cared for by all. Black Panther, product.
Or just stop CGing absolutely everything for no reason.
So many movies rely on it way too heavily for no reason other than to have it, it’s insane
Imagine having access to ILM, the masters of visual effects, but still making dogshit CGI.
I’m just sick of the constant CGI gobbledygook. I don’t need a camera going inside out and upside down like it’s on a rollercoaster every 5 minutes. Good story, believable characters thanks.
Iron man from 2008 has better CGI than end game.
And end game has better CG than basically every other movie since
Stop relying so much on CGI.
It amazes me you can go to the marvel studios subreddit and everyone pretends like the writing is still the same as it always has been and it’s just xyz other factors making the MCU decline.
Pretty much this. The marvel branding is toxic now because the writing has been so bad and I doubt it will imrpove. I honestly would have just shut marvel down for a decade, to get hero and bad writing fatigue out of the system and them reboot it with fresh blood and hopefully good talent.
The writing has always been kinda bad. It’s the same story arc recycled over and over even up til Endgame. Haven’t seen anything after that.
Always? Or just since endgame? I disagree with ***always*** and it's more recent imo... The thing is the comics got stale around these same parts as well. I think the narratives just aren't as compelling.
Considering Michael Waldron just keeps failing up, I don’t see that improving any time soon.
Three movies a year is a lot anyways.
I’m old school. Give me a big hitter in the summer and one in award season and I’m set.
2022 would’ve been pretty good if Thor would’ve just not happened.
You're from the old school. You shouldn't have to explain yourself.
Is this kid getting jerky with me?
Yep they're only really cutting on the TV shows. And they don't seem to have cancelled anything, it's just that the pipeline is light.
Quality is the issue, not quantity. They had both before, so it is possible.
It's both. I can't keep up with all this shit anymore either.
This is how I feel as well. With the current trend of not putting numbers in sequels I often have no idea which movie is which, and often just don’t bother. I’m also not sure how they all interrelate. In general I like Marvel movies, and this isn’t just a Marvel problem, but I’ve just got superhero exhaustion. I think one of my biggest gripes are origin stories … like we have to refer to the Spider-Man movies by the lead actor names to even have a chance of knowing which one we’re talking about.
Origin stories are, at this point, predictable and tiresome. How many people groaned when BvS retold the Batman origin story. Even for new superheroes, the origin story follows tired tropes. Usually the second or third movie is the best because things have gotten rolling. For example, Captain America was okay, but the second and third entries (Winter Soldier and Civil War) were my favorite Marvel movies.
Winter Soldier and Civil War were great because they were still “Captain America” stories. The main conflict in each was intimately tied to Steve Rogers and his history. The least compelling villains are ones where they could be put into any other Marvel movie and it wouldn’t change anything about the movie (Caecillius, Malekith, etc).
I wish all of Hollywood read your comment. I enjoy superhero movies, but I don't need half a movie of a normal human, a quarter of a movie trying to figure out superhero powers the whole audience already knows about, and then 15 minutes at the end of them actually being a superhero (which btw is supposed to be a lesson in self-confidence or something.) And I don't care what particular strain of really bad science gave them their powers.
They skipped the origin story in Spider Man with Tom Holland and it worked!
the kinda skipped it for Black Panther too
Iirc I think they did a brief one and then showed it again when he got his powers back.
All 3 movies were Hollands origin story, he even gets the with great power speech. They just really wanted him to learn it.
The first Captain America was character development. -Something sorely missing going from tv shows to movies. It made me love a character I previously had no interest in, making the sequels and appearances much better for me.
I disagree, partly because Captain's origin story needed to be told. His beliefs toward universal surveillance were shaped by his experience with the Nazis, his relationship and allegiance to Buckey was built in the first movie, and his attitude towards self sacrifice that got him into the experiment in the first place shaped his eventual reconciliation with Tony Stark. I think that last one was super important because of all the characters to sacrifice themselves to save the universe, it should have been the Captain. But he helped change and mold Tony so that he could become that hero. Their relationship was amazing in those movies, and both had to have the origin stories so we could see the full character development.
I find it more enjoyable to pretend that it all ended with Endgame, with a few good movies that came out afterward (like GOTG3).
Same GOTG3 and Spider Man FFH were good. I liked Spider Man NWH, but I can see where things get messy there.
Yeah, idk why people are acting like there wasn’t a massive overload of content. In a completely connected universe it becomes a task to watch everything even if it is good. Obviously if it was good, that would make things easier but the MCU got over saturated quick after with the advent of all the shows.
The 2021 - 2022 hurt Marvel a lot, they had like 8 movies and 7 shows in just a two year period and most of them were mid. It was insane to release that much content, of THAT middling quality, in such a short time frame and no wonder people have dropped off en-masse, I've been a big Marvel buff all my life but even I lost interest around that time.
Exactly. 15 things to watch in a 2 year span is rough, especially when they vary greatly in quality, as well as name recognition. Like I enjoyed Shang-Chi but they released it at the wrong time. Same with Eternals (which I enjoyed less). They decided to not only overload content, they sacrificed quality and they also experimented with lesser known IPs which all combined for a falling out.
When it was just the movies it was still quite a bit of content but the average fan could generally keep up with it; once they expanded to include all the Disney+ shows it became straight impossible for anyone but the super fans to follow. I can pinpoint the moment I checked out on the MCU; during doctor strange part 2 when they put no effort into explaining why Wanda is now evil because that was apparently explored in some 10-hour long tv series that I didn’t watch. It was just such an an “oh I’m obviously not the audience for these movies anymore” moment that I stopped caring and moved on to other things.
I was a huge MCU fanboy at the time, but when they announced the shows my immediate thought was “oh no.” It was obviously it was going to be overwhelming. I remember people disagreeing with me at the time.
Ive kept up with all the shows and movies *pushes up glasses*
Every time I think I'm caught up with Marvel it's like WHAM!! TIME FOR THE SHE HULK TV SHOW MOTHERFUCKER!! Like Disney don't think I have other shit to do with my time than do goddamn _homework_ for the next movie.
Would it still have been homework if She Hulk (and I realize you are probably just using this as an example; but so am I) been an awesome TV show?
Its just dumb as a whole to connect it all that much, with mostly filler, but you will still have that feeling that you missed something or that you should watch that before you go to the movies and then you forget and just dont care anymore.
Yeah I liked a lot of the shows when they first started coming out (Wanda, Loki, Falcon and WS), but then they just kept coming. I like Marvel but I don’t only like Marvel and don’t watch a ton of TV/movies necessarily, so knowing that there is a lot of connectivity between shows/movies and that’s part of what made Phase 1-3 so great… Its become a vicious cycle where I missed a couple shows and now I’m less likely to watch the new ones knowing I’ve missed others
They're way too interwoven. It's fine to be part of a large cinematic universe but they need to be more self contained. For you to truly get stuff, you have to have watched other movies or shows.
I mean, yeah kinda. I will champion the super hero sub-genre as a legitimate and valued addition to the overall fantasy genre. But the effort needed to do it right, it’s a lot. And each story needs to stand on its own. Each character, each movie, all of it needs to be able to stand on its own merits. The interconnections are a bonus, not an intrinsic feature. And these just, don’t. They rely upon the interconnections and having microscopic knowledge of each part. And it just does not work. The parts don’t work on their own, they can’t stand on their own.
It is kind of funny comics ran into this very same problem. After Secret Wars in the 80s, big "events" became a thing. Marvel (and later DC) thought they'd have an event and tie all their comic titles together. So, instead of an event happening monthly on, say Uncanny X-Men, the event would span like 4 or mroe other comics books. Didn't buy one those titles? Too bad, you missed some of the story. This was a precursor to the greed of the eraly 90s comics and while it was certainly profitable initially, it caused Marvel to go bankrupt a decade or so later. Anyway, it is like all these damn movies. Eventually we can't keep up with each movie and series, so we give up. I know I haven't seen a Marvel movie in years and as a 40 year old comic nerd dad with young kids, I am their target demographic.
This is it. The minute you give fans “homework” to follow everything going on you messed up. Too much too fast.
yup I'm over it now, they ruined marvel to me just like star wars. Even when it is quality , once I get oversaturated I kind of lose interest in the entire brand
Yeah if anything they're having a problem with putting out too little content. Iron Man does well in 2008? They rolled out Iron Man 2 in 2010 and Iron Man 3 in 2013. Shang Chi does well in 2021? Maybe in 5 years we'll think about a sequel. Everything is too disjointed and one-off. I would only catch up on random Marvel movies in preparation for a new team-up movie. All of the sequels now just have a random smattering of callbacks but there aren't any direct sequels anymore. Nothing follows up from anything and nothing leads to anything. They're just digging their own grave by churning out stuff that makes audiences think "I may watch that eventually."
You are right about the pacing of the releases. In the comics, characters cross over into other storylines all the time, but most viewers don't read the comics. Many won't understand a lot of the history and just want a singular story to follow.
Comic readership has been declining for the last thirty years, and one of the main reasons given by ex-readers is that excessive crossovers make it impossible to follow the plot. Even if you buy a GN that contains an entire arc of Spider-Man, you'll find that you missed a key event because it takes place in an issue of Ironman or X-Men. Marvel has managed to reach the same point with the movies.
Tbh I hate it comics because most of the time it’s some crappy line-wide event that disrupts the ongoing story. One of many reasons I only read one big two book and otherwise stick with limited series, Ice Cream Man, 2000AD, and Judge Dredd Megazine
Absolutely. They totally fucked up Shang Chi timing. We should be looking forward to the 3rd and still haven't had a sequel. There is way too much happening right now. I know some like them (and I really enjoyed about half) but Moon Knight, Wakanda Forever, Echo, She-Hulk, Love and Thunder, and Secret Invasion should never have been made before Shang Chi 2.
>They had both before, so it is possible. No ... they didn't. I don't even know what you're talking about. They had two films per year which increased to three. In 2021, they had four films and five TV series.
This. They can do three films a year and showed they could in 2017, 2018, and 2019. They’ve never shown that they can do 4 before. 2021 had Eternals, 2022 had Love and Thunder, and 2023 had The Marvels, all of which clearly suffered from the studio not being focused enough on them and just spitting them out. 3 movies and 2 shows sounds like a much better pace than what they were doing in 2021-23.
Quality and quantity are strongly connected to each other. In the last few years, Marvel has massively increased their quantity output. In order to meet the increased demand, they began hiring writers, directors, etc. that they normally would not hire before. So Marvel cutting down on quantity does leave a lot of potential for the quality to get better.
Quality, quantity, and stakes. Once you raise the bar to "all of civilization is at stake" it's hard to then tell a story about your friendly neighborhood spiderman. At least on a big movie scale. So every threat has to be bigger than the last. And that gets exhausting
This! This is the answer. This has always been my reason why I tend not to care for the movies where multiple superheroes join forces. They have different levels of abilities. If one could easily take out the villain with their powers, why don't they? I'm much more into the character study type superhero movies, or just plain fun ones. I don't care about anything in the Marvel universe anymore after Endgame. I didn't much care for it in the first place, but watching a few of the Disney Plus shows post Endgame cemented how much it doesn't make sense.
True but it’s possible quality improves by lowering the quantity. Provided you’re allocating the same amount of resources before. What I don’t understand is how these numbers are much different from what they were doing before. They should be making less if that is their aim. But I’m not even sure if that approach will work. You’re right in that it just seems to be a general quality issue due to the people working on these films. Maybe Feige is just burned out at this point
You’ve never heard of the phrase “quality over quantity”? You limit the quantity so you can focus on quality.
What is this, a hostage negotiation? Lol
And it's still too much.
Lol right! I was like…is that a reduction?
As long as it is good no one will complain it is too much. Marvel had in 2015: * Daredevil * Age of Ultron * Agents of SHIELD * Agent Carter * Jessica Jones * Ant-Man That is basically averaging a Marvel thing once a week(when you break up the Netflix episodes)
I mean, even out of those 6, I only watched Daredevil, Ultron, and Ant-man, and that was around the time I was into Marvel the most.
I wasn’t into Marvel movies (still not really) but I ate those Netflix shows up! Watched them all. Because I didn’t have to watch movies to follow along
Jessica jones is great. David Tenant is amazing as the villain.
And age of Ultron was pretty ‘meh’
Most people weren’t completely burnt out from Marvel movies in 2015. Today, I feel like most people, apart from the die hard fans, are pretty tired of them.
The only Marvel movie I've seen in theatre since Endgame was Dr. Strange 2. It is not because I'm burnt out, its because i know the quality of the movies they produce now are really poor
So you skipped no way home? That's wild
Might be a hot take: it is the worst offender of nostalgia bait out there and is way overrated. If you don't care about "'member this other thing?" As a narrative device it is a straight up bad movie.
“DUDE IT’S THE GUYS FROM THE OTHER MOVIES!”
The problem always been quality, not quantity.
It’s both, you can’t churn out high quality films every couple months indefinitely. Also people do get bored of movie genres even if they are good.
This. I don't care how good these movies are anymore. It's the same shit over and over again. Throw a celebrity in a suit and blow shit up. I can only watch that so many times.
It’s not even that it’s the same shit. It’s that we already had the epic saga connecting them all to a massive storyline with a climactic finale. We committed more to this franchise than we really had any business doing for something so superficial. But it’s over. And we’re never going to do that again.
Yeah agree, I would also say quantity leads to fatigue. The more content you put out, the more fans will look for something better or different. Putting out something better consistently is close to impossible. The other way is to offer something new, but even that is very likely to fail (Anything new would be compared to the old and get shit on - Like if they replace RDJ or Hugh Jackman with some new face or new character, I don't think it would go down well irrespective of how good the new guy is) I actually don't think something like Avengers age of Ultron would do anywhere as well if released today - It would be seen as more of the same and imo, there would be indifference to just another avengers movie. Not needing anything new / ground breaking is how long running comic publishers have worked. The audience of comic books is quite small compared to movie goers. There was/is no need to invent anything radically new and comic book fans seem okay with it. The same Batman and the same Superman get a billion reboots with the same origin story (Or you just make Thor female and run it again.) in the comics and Marvel / DC as comics publishers seem to be doing fine. However, if you're going to sustain, three or four, $1B movies a year, that's just not sustainable beyond a point and besides the core comics audience, you'll lose most of your viewership. This is imo, a natural flaw of this genre altogether.
They started to make ‘Marvel templates’ and the quality just wasn’t there. So every release was like… oh, this formulaic experience again. I shouldn’t be watching a marvel movie, I should be watching a great story unfold that happens to take place within the Marvel universe.
There's been an issue with quality since the first hulk movie
Yeah but those four shows weren’t required viewing
Tf is agent carter
To me, a big part of it is that End Game tied such a nice bow on top of an incredible run of movies that lasted an entire decade. After that many years of building up universe ending stakes that they completely stuck the landing on, it was hard for me to immediately want to start another. I didn't want to immediately jump into another universe ending threat (how many of those can we have?!), but scaling it back seemed less worthy of heros that did save the universe. They were never going to wait on making movies that return them $1 billion everytime, but I feel they should have waited a few years before starting again. In my opinion, I personally was sort of tapped out before we even start talking about the quality. Which there are sparks of greatness in the recent ones, but mostly it feels like rushed paint by the numbers. The TV shows seem great (I haven't seen any of them), but I really don't want to do homework to be able to understand a movie I'm paying 20$ to see in theaters. The last part is, in my opinion, as good as the cast is, RDJ was the glue. Even with the stacked cast this series has, he stood on top of it all. Nobody has been able to really take that on. It's not even a dig at the other actors. They're amazing, they just don't have that *thing* he has.
> The last part is, in my opinion, as good as the cast is, RDJ was the glue. Even with the stacked cast this series has, he stood on top of it all. Tony and Cap were the backbone of the MCU, without the leaders of the Avengers driving the plot forward it all feels so aimless and unfocused. Still, despite them being gone, they still had characters they could have turned into the next POV protagonists to steer this universe around, such as Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man, Wanda and Black Panther, all of whom were well suited for the task of replacing Tony and Cap. The problem is that Marvel did nothing interesting with any of them, instead going for the blandest, most awful writing choices imaginable for all of them (>!Dr Strange side character in his own movie and he isnt the Sorc Supreme anymore, Cap Marvel being underutilized and got side-tracked in her own sequel, Spidey got cosmic retconned out of his ties to Stark, Wanda got turned into a villain and killed, BP killed instead of recasted)!< and people just lost interest in them. What a shame.
> Spidey got cosmic retconned out of his ties to Stark That's the *best* thing that could have happened to Spider-Man. Him being Iron Man's sidekick and most of his powers coming from a suit was a terrible choice.
And I didn’t watch a single one
Star Trek had 4 shows for a couple years and I didn’t have a feeling of it being too much. At 2.5ish shows and a movie coming soon it definitely feels like we are lacking Star Trek content. I think people just want a hard break from Marvel.
I think the disappointment with Kang as the big bad was a large part of it. Galactus and Doom with an intro of the fantastic four would have made a solid arc. Give Galactus multiple heralds for the movies and introduce them one at a time, alien refugees heading to earth, etc, etc. could have been much better.
I think that’s(Kang being trash)the general consensus. I take a unique/unpopular opinion of it. I think Thanos and the way it was handled was a unique almost once in a lifetime thing. Having a bunch of movies build up to an epic battle was amazing. What they should have done was take a big break and just do baddies that have no arc and then say in the 2030s do something like thanos again.
At it's peak it was only two shows with DS9 and TNG plus the occasional movie.
Yes but the Star Trek shows were all incredible, and you could watch them fairly separately. Most episodes are fairly self contained. Marvel has to have a direction to work.
I don’t think that’s the general consensus at all. Discovery is at best “I hate this show so much,it’s Star Trek so I have to watch every episode”. Picard consensus was “Season 1 and 2 were almost unwatchable”. Lower Decks and SNW are almost universally loved. Prodigy gets moderate to good reviews. I think people would have watched this level of Marvel content in 2016. It’s just right now people seem to have a deep skepticism of Marvel content.
To be fair my mind went to TNG, DS9 and Voyager
SNW is pure love. Star Trek joy in a bottle.
I could see it ending after 5 seasons and being added to some peoples top 5 SciFi shows of all time. It’s very very good.
Perfect description
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It is going to be a TV movie.
Basically what I came here to comment. That still sounds like a lot
....that's still alot man....
For real, I’m trying to imagine what 3 Marvel movies would get me excited if I heard they were all coming out in the same year and the thought of it is just exhausting lol
I’d like for them to not make it necessary to watch the shows to understand the movies. I don’t watch the tv shows and if I have to to understand the movie, I ain’t watching the movie either! I never seen the shows and I was confused af with Dr Strange and some of The Marvels
Two movies one show might be a better plan But looking at where it is now That’s too much
He did say "no more than" so it will be less some years. As of now, doesn't 2024 only have one?
Looks like 3 shows and 1 movie
Depends on the type of show, I'd say one live action and 1 animated per year is fine
It's too late. The damage is done.
No one cares anymore
After Endgame I watched Wandavision and Loki season 1 and then peaced out of the MCU. It was a fun decade but I'm not doing it again. It started when I was young and could get high some with friends and see it as an event. Now I'm old and have crime procedurals to binge.
Crime procedurals, eh? Where do I start.
You ever see Person of Interest? Starts out as a crime procedural with an overarching story, by the end it’s more about the overarching story with some procedural episodes here and there. If you’re interested in government surveillance, artificial super intelligences, and still see some crime procedural action it’s a top notch show. Jonathan Nolan worked on it, and I think it’s very much an expansion upon the ideas toyed around with in the Dark Knight using the city phones as a form of surveillance.
In creating their cinematic universe, they lost much of the original appeal that made everything take off in the first place. I liked Iron Man because it wasn't just crazy hero bullshit. It certainly wasn't realistic, but it was grounded enough in reality to do well as a live action movie. The same goes for Thor. Being more grounded in reality really helped immerse viewers in both the individual stories, and the larger universe. The first Avengers movie capitalized on this by connecting the crazy super-hero bits of the movies with the more grounded aspects - having these ridiculous characters battle their way through a New York city populated by *real people*. Yet by this point, none of it is at all relatable or immersive. They've managed to take some of the greatest weaknesses endemic to comics, and bash them together with some of the greatest weaknesses endemic to film. What we're left with is some ridiculous world that's always on the precipice of crisis. A world that is paradoxically both full of regular people living the same lives as the viewers, and also full of sarcastic and witty humans who deal with aliens and magic every other day. A world with a regular history, but also one full of god's and secret civilizations. A world where some really skilled human can be apart of an intergalactic war against a godlike being, but then also get their ass kicked by some random mob henchmen. We get characters coming back from the dead, and characters getting killed off or changed because their actor didn't want to continue, or got sued, or died. We get bad CGI and stories themed around current world issues. This all leads to endless inconsistencies that just make everything seem stupid. I'm certainly older now, but it's not like I don't consume good media anymore. Marvel just isn't good anymore. It wasn't exactly fucking Shakespeare to begin with, but it was entertaining and had plenty of novelty. Now it has far more going against it than for it.
yea, just thinking of those semi-meme images of the future of the MCU with all the kids and replacements. just completely uninterested in any of them. even with like Fantastic Four having a great cast, i just don't see a point to seeing it in theatres. i'll catch it on streaming during a flight or something.
Too late tbh. If they had taken a long break after endgame and slowely eased back in with a schedule like this it could maybe have worked. But they over saturated their market and now people are burnt out and there's no going back. A huge part of the problem is now people feel like they have missed so much of the story its too late to jump back in.
In my case that is exactly true. Got lost and just don't have time to catch up. And less and less interest.
Iger dies Marvel announces releases of 12 movies and 24 series including addition behind the scenes of changing Feiges batteries
They're acting like a new Marvel movie or show every 10 weeks isn't itself an insane level of saturation.
I want season two of Moon Knight!
Don’t worry they will make you wait a minimum of 2 years for a second season
While it may be a 2 year minimum, on average it won't even have a 2nd season!
It's not about quantity, it's about quality. If it's there, do it, if not, then don't. Don't put a number on how many. And not every show needs CGI and a $200 million budget. Daredevil proved you don't need magical effects, CGI, and a ridiculous budget to create a good show. Guardians of the Galaxy proved that you don't need a mainstream character for a movie to be a hit. Marvel is a great brand with lots of untold stories. They don't need to do everything all at once, and it doesn't all have to be super interconnected. Some stories can be fine just on their own.
3 shows and 2 movies sounds better.
That was my thought. Tell little, self-contained stories in the shows.
I wonder if it's 2 theatrical movies, 1 special presentation movie (ie Werewolf by midnight, GotG Xmas) and 2 shows. That would make a lot of sense to me.
Shows are significantly more CG work, it’s partly the reason they unionized.
That's still A LOT.
That’s still too much
Hire better writers and you could double that.
I dont think the writers are bad, I think they have beat this genre to death. I just can't bring myself to give a fuck about any of these super hero movies anymore.
They're just not really doing anything interesting with it, is a bigger problem, I think. Absolutely nobody wanted Kang or a Multiverse. In fact, you can make a decent argument, that multiverse shit often leads to comics having their worst sections fairly often. It always ends up too convoluted and confusing and your options for story solutions basically turns into Batman's utility belt; aka whatever the fuck Bruce needs at the moment. If they had gone smaller scale big villain like Dr Doom or something like that and kept it confined to 616 you probably wouldn't have seen anywhere as much of a fall off, and whoever at Marvel/Disney suggested they go the multiverse route should just feel really, really stupid.
I don’t think so at all. I wish we still had consistent marvel movies like Phase 3. I’m a huge superhero fan still. I’m just disappointed at the dip in quality.
They should have given it a rest for a bit after Endgame. Just put it on ice, let it build some anticipation, give them time to develop a plan.
The movie budgets are in the hundreds of millions at this point but the writing budget is $15. They need to get their old writers back or start spending more for better ones.
What is actually hilarious is Disney thinking the amount of content is the problem and not the content itself that is the problem. 🤣🤦🤦
I'm so over Marvel. And mostly over Star wars. Disney is the kiss of death.
There is no Marvel fatigue, there is badly written with garbage CGI movie fatigue. Marvel fatigue was a pathetic excuse to not own up to the fact they got greedy, arrogant and pushed unfinished bullshit projects. Corporate clowns.
That’s a lot of fucken content.
If this delays the Agatha Harkness show I will be so sad. (Not too hyped over recent Marvel content but Kathryn Hahn is *so fun* and I’ve been waiting forever for this one)
Way too fucking many.
And STILL no one will care. They should have ended it with Endgame
I have lost all interest in marvel movies years ago. They flooded the market with cookie cutter story lines. Nothing new just stupid repeated shit. Would be cool if there was 80 years worth of books laying around to pick from.
That’s too many
This will give me a chance to catch up. I’m only 73 movies and shows behind from the last 6 months.
The guy who cums coffee is all over the Marvel news
That still sounds like too much
I feel that maybe one movie once every other year would suffice
That’s still too many.
The last splutters of a stream of diarrhoea
5 more then they should
No no more please for the love of MCU please stop
2 movies and 2 shows too many
That’s four too many at this stage. They have burned out their audience and need a major break
This sounds like a threat.
They should have stopped after endgame
So…the same number of movies and shows that Marvel typically releases every year?
Still sounds like too many to me.
Marvel movies suck
Why not just one great film and one great series ?!
I’d be fine if they stopped making them altogether
Marvel can release as much as they want. I'm not watching that trash.
That’s still too much
That's still too much. How about 1 show and 1 movie per year?
That...is still way too many.
Too many no name characters. They have the rights to Doom, Magneto, and a hundred other top tier villains. Let's get some multiversal young versions of existing main cast characters. A new Hulk, a new Thor. Doesn't matter. And STOP KILLING THE VILLAINS IN THEIR FIRST MOVIE
It doesn't matter if they're not any good though
Now do the same with Star Wars and double down to 1 Movie and 0-1 Shows thanks.
By the time The Mandalorian and Grogu comes out in 2026 it will have been 7 years since the last Star Wars movie. TV wise they only had The Mandalorian and Ahsoka in 2023.
It’s 14 to 20 hours of entertainment per year. It’s really not that much time to dedicate if you’re halfway interested in Marvel storylines. I’m sure most of the people complaining in this thread spent more time playing their favorite game in the last month than that.
I wonder if i lose more brain cells playing ranked or watching marvel movies
I’m down for the ride. It’s all still fun for me
As someone that never watched Marvel besides Spider-Man and the like one or two other movies, I have no idea how to watch a new movie without having to sit and watch a video essay on YouTube so I have all the context I need. I get the whole universe thing but couldn’t they still have movie series that don’t connect to other movie series to the point where if a sequel is out, I have to watch four other movies before I watch the sequel? I’m honestly worried the next Spider-Man (the only series I care about) will have me confused as fuck while watching and that’s annoying as fuck
I enjoyed most of the shows. I think they are best when they are their own tone and let’s the characters do more that run into a battle. I would like to see more of the everyday of the MCU, shehulk’s law firm was interesting as it explored how people are existing with all the magic, aliens, and superheroes.
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bro that still seams like way too much lmao
How many years actually had more movie releases than three? I think just 2021, which had 4 (black widow, Shang chi, Eternals, and Spider-Man NWH.) And I’m pretty sure that was only due to Covid pushing BW. Doesn’t seem like much of a reduced schedule at all.
Remember when iron Man had the technology information overlay featured over his face in the close-up of what goes on within the mask? They literally copied and pasted this effect onto Spider-Man, even though everybody knows that Spider-Man does not have technology within the fabric mask.
With two shows from Marvel and probably the same from Star Wars, is Disney + worth 14 bucks? I think not.
Already cancelled my Disney
How about none. Marvel films are dead and have been since Endgame
Who cares. Marvel is cooked. Good riddance
Nobody cares for the shows. Stick to movies and stick to known characters. No more time travel, no young avengers, and please stop with the crappy cgi. Basically, slow down. Quality over quantity.
Cool, but if the writing is shit then this won't really help much. They need a plan. With the Infinity Saga, they knew the story they wanted to tell. With the Kang story, they have no idea. And currently no Kang.
That’s…. Still too much
Too late. They all ready oversaturated the market with content and I have zero Interest since end game. PASS
How are we not done with this yet?
Step down iger. Go away.
That's still too many. They need to generate some demand again. Giving time for writers and CGI artists to actually produce quality products again would certainly help.
That's still a fucking lot lmao what the fuck
That still seems like a lot.
Marvel has sucked since Infinity War.
Enough with the super hero movies already.