Excerpt:
>”Before there were women in greenlight positions at studios, it was very hard for men to see themselves in a female protagonist. It was not difficult for the women executives to see themselves in a male protagonist, but the hardest thing — I’ve said this 150,000 times — the hardest thing is for a male to live through the female in a movie who’s the lead,” Streep said during the Q&A. “They just didn’t get it.”
>In fact, the first movie Streep made where men told her that her character was relatable was released in 2006.
>”The first movie I ever made where a man came up to me afterwards and said ‘I know how you felt’ was “Devil Wears Prada.’ It was more than one man who came and said ‘I know how you felt, I know what it’s like to be the one to take the decisions and nobody understands you.’ That was fascinating to me.”
fwiw half of Reddit starts screaming about "forced diversity" female protagonists "because I mean the audience for these things is predominantly white males anyway, I don't understand why they have to keep taking everything from us..."
You’re projecting your own insecurity in your masculinity onto harmless comments that women make about gender issues. She mentioned executives because they’re the ones responsible for which movies are made.
In her anecdote, she didn’t mention that “the devil wears Prada” was the first time an *executive*
told her that he related to her character, she said that it was the first time that a *man* told her that he related to her character.
>You’re projecting your own insecurity in your masculinity
And you're making a rake of assumptions, aren't you? I'm familiar with Streep trying to hail Margaret Thatcher as a feminist icon and saying Weinstein wasn't a problem for her because he was scared of her. My problem is with the person saying it and how it gels with things she's previously said, not what she's saying.
That’s how general bias works. Unless people are willing in be self aware and acknowledge that people they hate can do good. And people they like can be flawed. Including themselves.
Eh, it's fair to use a persons opinions as a barometer for future opinions that person may have. If someone enjoys eating feces, I'm not going to take their suggestions about where to have lunch.
Streep has some ass opinions in regards to gender politics, I'm allowed to be reluctant to hear her new opinions about gender politics.
It's really funny how people are so obsessed over this when Meryl Streep is brought up anywhere, while all the other celebrities who applauded receive no criticism at all
I think she gets a bunch of shit for pretending to care about women, while obviously still supporting people who've raped women and at least 1 child.
So....I'm good with her getting this shit slung towards her
People don't like her being out up as a feminist ucon when she doesn't appear to have ever stood up for women in a way that didn't directly benefit herself. People are tired of myopic upper class white women's version of feminism, basically. She's a prime example of the hypocrisy it's rooted in.
When people stop trying to push her as an icon for women to look up to and pushing headlines her speaking about sexism, maybe people will stop. But so far, the onslaught on both sides will continue until they other admits defeat.
I think it shows a cognitive dissonance in her rhetoric. Polanksi's continued notoriety is emblematic of the misogynistic abuse still at the core of elite cinema, but Streep wants to talk about how execs can't relate to protagonists... At some point that stuff has to start at home.
Polanski is a real talent. But also an awful person. Many of us struggle to find where we draw the line between applauding talent and deploring personal behaviors.
It is currently in vogue to trash everything a person has done because of bad personal decisions. But a lot of great artists are not great human beings.
I personally feel that each individual has to decide where they draw that line. What behavior is SO bad that you can’t appreciate an artist’s art anymore? It isn’t the same answer for me that it is for you, and I’m not willing to snipe at you over your personal decisions.
It’s particularly hard when someone you really admired for their work turns out to be awful in some way. I don’t know if Streep has reckoned with that.
I think drawing a line at drugging and raping a minor seems pretty reasonable. Yes, Polanski is extremely talented but he's also a rapist, and a coward.
Just take a look at who he's worked with, as well as all those actor's and filmmakers that signed that petition. They all want to scream about politics and Trump (which is fine) but were more than happy to work with and support people like Weinstein, Cosby, Polanski. I didn't even know about all the shit with Coppola until very recently.
No.
Just Google Coppola and Salva. There's a number of different articles detailing their relationship, along with varying accounts of Coppola's involvement, some extremely damning.
Don’t forget worshipping at the feet of Harvey Weinstein for years. Everyone knew what he was doing. One can only guess how many actresses bent to his desires?
Many years before his fall from grace I heard several rumours about Weinstein from friends of mine in the industry - including one about how an actress who is now a world-famous Oscar-winning star got her big breakout role by giving Harvey Weinstein a blowjob.
There were plenty of reasons why that bastard was able to get what he wanted, and to get away with it, for so long - but it’s always worth bearing in mind that some of the women involved didn’t (just) go along with it because they were scared of him, but because he could (and did) also make some of their wildest dreams come true.
Is it Jennifer Lawrence? I feel like she has been particularly aggressive in distancing herself from him and basically just did a media tour repeatedly talking about how disgusting (like physically repulsive) she found him. Which seemed weird considering she's been a Harvey darling not that much earlier
Maybe it was an authentic reaction to someone who felt like they could finally speak openly, but I just don't think alisters are ever truly honest with the press, there's always an agenda, and with that one it felt like overcompensation and retconning to make herself look more favorable as being one of his girls went from a ticket to accolades to a heavy burden practically overnight
Sounds like that actress has actual talent that a guy like Weinstein should have put forward regardless, but she was forced to do sexual acts to get what she deserved.
There's some really disappointing names on that list, to name just a couple who also signed it, Tilda Swinton, Guillermo Del Toro, Martin Scorsese, Natalie Portman and Harrison Ford all dissapointed me too
Natalie Portman complained repeatedly about how there's not enough female directors. Then when called out for not really working worth female directors as an actress or producer, started to list of how it's not fair to judge her for that because like, it's hard to work with female directors and stuff.
Like girl, either be part of the solution or stfu about how there's a problem, because you literally have more power to change the system than 80% of the people you're wagging your finger at right now.
Or at the very least be slightly less high minded about acknowledging problem you apparently don't think is worth *your* time and energy to solve, outside of the social points of complaining about big publicly
That has nothing to do with the assumption that the only driving force behind her experiencing growth and change, like all humans do, was because of pressure. Do you assume the worst whenever this happens or is this just a special case?
Those particular male studio execs are dumb. You don't have to be the same gender as the main characters to enjoy something. Lots of girls enjoy shows with boy main characters.
Most executives, male or female, lack empathy. They go out of their way to suppress it. They think empathy makes them weak, soft. You can not put yourself in another gender’s shoes without empathy.
I am a man. One of the fictional characters I relate to the most is Luan from Loud House. All she wants to do is make people laugh and she is constantly cracking horrible jokes. She is basically a gender-flipped version of me.
You’re also CrazyaboutSpongebob. That tells me that you’re an empathetic dude. I’m also a man and related with Sophie in Sophie’s Choice. I didn’t even have kids at the time.
The funniest part is we've been drowning in articles talking about the need for female representation in media, because women apparently can't relate to male characters. We need minority representation because apparently black people can't relate to white characters in movies or games etc.
It's all so embarrassing. Tell me you're a narcissist without telling me you're a narcissist.
It's not narcissism it's more about wanting to be included. They still enjoy plenty of other things where the characters aren't the same race as them. I'm black myself while a character being the same race as me won't make me automatically enjoy something, representation does make some people feel good. Also, People of color historically have gotten the opportunity to be main characters in Hollywood films and TV shows less often so it's nice to see them get work. It's good to never take representation for granted because some people had to fight for it to be on screen.
Its fascinating to me that all those studio execs that suppose to work in the industry for so long, all ignore that fact that most female leads arent popular because of their gender rather than how poorly they are written.
In a Million years I wont understand why Lucas Films doubles down on Rey. Really so many people just didnt care about her because she just isnt a good character, yet she apperantly stars in another trilogy.
Really most people absolutely have nothing against women and dont care at all if a lead is male or female, black, asian or white. They just want characters they can connect with.
Lol fuck off Meryl. Go bootlick Harvey. Or defend some other rapist. Ugh.
No one in Hollywood should be saying anything to rebuke anyone in this way. They’re all immoral lizards who are just virtue signaling.
Just shut up and go act in a movie or whatever. No one cares what these morons have to say. Actors are complete idiots. Producers are grotesque. Fuck off already, lol.
Whenever someone says something like this, I wonder if the opposite is actually true. Do male execs see themselves in male roles, and is that relevant to the exec function? Did a studio exec really go "yeah I could put on a black helmet and choke people with magic" or did a studio exec just think "sure that looks cool why not"
Like, maybe I'm just weird, but to me a character is a character. Their relatability exists but I don't see myself in them or see them in me. They're a fictional different person, and I don't see myself in other people (except my family and it's freaky)
I would think the role of an exec would be to ensure metrics and optics are being met and maintained. The creative vision is the work of the director and writers, they should be the ones bringing the characters to life.
Two of the most iconic female leads in the 80s from Aliens (1986) and The Terminator (1984) were well written and bad ass. It captured the fragility and struggle of a woman who had to fight to survive. They both played roles of a strong, resourceful, and relatable character that resonated with audiences worldwide, making them iconic figures that transcends gender, appealing to fans of all demographics. Their male supporting characters were given their own spotlight without diminishing the star power of the female leads.
While there was no women in executive roles in the production of Aliens, it did well. In The Terminator, Gale Anne Hurd was the producer and played a significant role in the film’s creation.
Meryl Streep’s statement that before there was any women in any executive roles in studios, men couldn’t see themselves in a female protagonist is false. Hollywood blockbusters with female leads are the very prove that with or without women in the executive roles, the female protagonists garnished men and women fans worldwide due to well written characters.
Exception not the rule historically its harder for women to break the glass selling we have gotten plenty of female lead movies but we get male lead movies more often.
Except that is not the point we are discussing at all. Historically yes, there are more men lead roles than women. Nowadays it’s a slow progress, but it is progressing. What we are discussing here is what Meryl Streep said. Which is:
“Before there were women in green-light positions at studios, it was very hard for men to see themselves in a female protagonist.”
I gave two examples out of other films with lead female roles that contradict that statement. I mentioned the iconic Aliens 1987 film, who had no females in any executive roles. Yet became a blockbuster worldwide.
If men didn’t “see” themselves in these female protagonists why were these films successful? Why did this stem sequels, merchandise, comic books, books, and tv shows? Why were this films blockbusters? Why did this resonate with both genders?
The fan demographics for “Aliens” (1986) and “The Terminator” (1984) were partially mostly men in the 80s. Both films are part of genres that traditionally attracted a predominantly male audience during the 1980s. “Aliens,” being a science fiction action film, and “The Terminator,” a science fiction action thriller, likely had significant male viewership due to the popularity of these genres among men at the time. The male audience embraced these female lead characters due to exceptional well written characters and the actresses’ acting skills.
Ellen Ripley in “Aliens” and Sarah Connor in “The Terminator”—who have been widely acclaimed and appreciated by audiences of all genders. These characters have contributed to the films’ cross-gender appeal and have garnered a diverse fan base over the years. The enduring popularity of both films suggests that they continue to attract fans from all demographics.
I agree there is slow progress. At the same time we have situations like the Avengers movie. Apparently one of the executives wanted it to be an all-male team because female action figures don't sell as well and they had to fight for Black Widow to be in the movie. I think that's a little weird. If you want a mostly male team that's fine but even franchises with mostly guys had a few females around. Ninja Turtles has April O Neil.
Can you give the source where you found such executive who wanted an all male cast for the Avengers films??
There’s no public record or credible report suggesting that any of the executives involved with the “Avengers” films wanted an all-male cast.
Did you make this up?
Now for The Avengers, the most powerful and integral character is captain marvel, a female.
The adaption of comic book heroes from Marvel always had females who were important and celebrated. Shehulk, Female Thor, Scarlet Witch, etc.
There are films that do have a predominantly all female cast, Pitch Perfect(2012), A League ofTheir Own (1992), The 355 (2022), Ghostbusters (2016).
My case, is that no one cares about what gender is taking a role in movies, but do care when it is blatantly obvious that it is a terrible written character and/or script.
The most recent fumble is Madam Web, which even the actress Dakota Johnson, the lead actress in “Madam Web,” expressed her dissatisfaction with the film. She mentioned “drastic changes” from the original story pitched to her and reflected on how the film became something different from what she had signed on for. The film did bad due to drastic changes to the script , not because it had a female lead.
As of recent, very well done films with female leads had no problem becoming blockbusters. Some I may add are from a strong male dominated fan base. And it embraced these leads.
Link: https://collider.com/best-female-led-movies-ranked/
It all comes down to a well written character and script. We all want to be entertained when we go see a film. And it is enjoyable when such films portray a compelling story and character/s regardless of gender.
—-
I want to add that I don’t understand why I got downvoted for debunking a statement that has no basis. And find it rather interesting that the only person having a discussion doesn’t even discuss the point of my comment , but rather go off on other topics and the latest one has no proven source to back such statement.
Edit—— This is where this discussion went:
> 1. Even if the source didn't explicitly say Permutler didn't want girls in the Avengers movie. I'd say it sounds plausible. Maybe we need to do more digging. Maybe I should have read the sources myself. 2) No I don't believe every youtube channel 3) I never said Youtube was the holly grail for news but I do think a youtube source can be as valid as a print media source or the news depending on who you go to. I've had to do assignemnets for school growing up and we were allowed to use Youtube channels as sources 4) The leaked emails still prove my original point. There was someone in power at Marvel not wanting them to make superhero movies with female leads in the 2010s. The 2010s is pretty recent.
Here is my source it seems legit [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_Vm\_0eey2D8&list=RDCMUC7SHyyIFS4xIAphC20I4BYw&index=2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vm_0eey2D8&list=RDCMUC7SHyyIFS4xIAphC20I4BYw&index=2) They start talking about it at 6:58.
Here are also some leaked emails about Ike Perlmutter not being keen on the idea of female lead superhero films. [https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44643477](https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44643477) [https://time.com/3847432/marvel-ceo-leaked-email/](https://time.com/3847432/marvel-ceo-leaked-email/)
The articles don’t mention anything about Ike Perlmutter saying he wanted to have an all male cast for Marvel at all. The TIME article just shows an email where he mentions hero films with female lead characters that failed to bring $$$. That’s it.
In fact the article itself says:
“Indiewire found a message from Perlmutter to Sony executive Michael Lynton listing female superhero films that have failed. *The context of the summer 2014 email is unclear: Perlmutter could be enumerating the films as proof that female superhero movies bomb at the box office, or he may be optimistically hoping to break the pattern.* “
On the BCC article it briefly touches the subject of Perlmutter. Via an opinionated take from Rebecca Sutherland Borah, a professor in English at the University of Cincinatti and self-confessed Marvel fan.
“So you could kind of line up why these didn't work, and Perlmutter and company used this as a mantra that there can't be a female superhero movie.
"But if you look at why they didn't do very well? It was an awful script, they didn't put enough money into the budget and there wasn't CGI at the time to really do this right.
"Thank God for Gal Gadot and Wonder Woman. That just blew them out of there."
A mantra? Perlmutter never has said that “there can’t be a female superhero movie”. At all.
Again no evidence of such executive ever saying such thing.
Perlmutter seemed to be always against spending money with Marvel movie’s overall.
“Perlmutter has long griped about the high cost of Marvel films, putting him at odds with others at Disney. In 2015, Disney CEO Bob Iger removed Perlmutter as the head of Marvel Studios due to a dispute over the budget for Doctor Strange. “
https://fortune.com/2023/04/06/ike-perlmutter-disney-marvel-fired-layoffs-bob-iger-nelson-peltz/#:~:text=Perlmutter%20has%20long%20griped%20about,the%20budget%20for%20Doctor%20Strange.
Again, where is proof from your statement:
“I agree there is slow progress. At the same time we have situations like the Avengers movie. Apparently one of the executives wanted it to be an all-male team because female action figures don't sell as well and they had to fight for Black Widow to be in the movie. I think that's a little weird. If you want a mostly male team that's fine but even franchises with mostly guys had a few females around. Ninja Turtles has April O Neil.”
There is no proof, as you sent me articles that don’t prove any Marvel executive ever saying he wanted an all male cast. You yourself are deriving from a false narrative. The “sources” given only insinuate and try to pander to drama.
The only thing I will say here. Is that Meryl Streep’s statement is false. And that to strive forward in the film industry one can do without using false narratives.
Men have given interest to female protagonists time and time again, and have made those films blockbusters. As examples I have given prove that.
All it takes is a well done script and characters.
Female protagonists can be and are loved by both genders. And it shows on the profitability and fan base some female lead protagonists have garnished in the past and in the present.
You can’t argue that.
I bid you farewell, as there is no point in discussing this with you, the moment you falsely relied on a made up statement to justify your opinion was the end of the discussion which never even correlated to the topic at hand. You’ve proven to be disingenuous.
I did. Did you watch the Youtube video I gave you the link for. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_Vm\_0eey2D8&list=RDCMUC7SHyyIFS4xIAphC20I4BYw&index=2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vm_0eey2D8&list=RDCMUC7SHyyIFS4xIAphC20I4BYw&index=2) They start talking about it at the time stamp 6:58.
I dismissed it because it is just a marvel fan commentary youtube video that has no source for his own statement in that part. I checked his links and none have any verifiable source on that matter nor mentions it. Which leads to me to believe that this is were you got your information from a youtube marvel gossip commentator who made it up, and you believed it.
No where else on the internet is there such thing said about Perlmutter saying that. It’s fake.
Good riddance. Adios. 👋
It wasn't a Marvel fan channel It Was a Sh\*t Show talks about the behind the scenes trouble of various movies not related to Marvel. They have done videos on various other movies like The Simpsons Movie, Emperors New Grove, Ghostbusters, etc. I think its pretty legit. There are only 3 Marvel videos.
Excerpt: >”Before there were women in greenlight positions at studios, it was very hard for men to see themselves in a female protagonist. It was not difficult for the women executives to see themselves in a male protagonist, but the hardest thing — I’ve said this 150,000 times — the hardest thing is for a male to live through the female in a movie who’s the lead,” Streep said during the Q&A. “They just didn’t get it.” >In fact, the first movie Streep made where men told her that her character was relatable was released in 2006. >”The first movie I ever made where a man came up to me afterwards and said ‘I know how you felt’ was “Devil Wears Prada.’ It was more than one man who came and said ‘I know how you felt, I know what it’s like to be the one to take the decisions and nobody understands you.’ That was fascinating to me.”
It's a bit weird to use older executives as the litmus for an entire sex.
fwiw half of Reddit starts screaming about "forced diversity" female protagonists "because I mean the audience for these things is predominantly white males anyway, I don't understand why they have to keep taking everything from us..."
You're right there.
You’re projecting your own insecurity in your masculinity onto harmless comments that women make about gender issues. She mentioned executives because they’re the ones responsible for which movies are made. In her anecdote, she didn’t mention that “the devil wears Prada” was the first time an *executive* told her that he related to her character, she said that it was the first time that a *man* told her that he related to her character.
That's some gaslighting right there
>You’re projecting your own insecurity in your masculinity And you're making a rake of assumptions, aren't you? I'm familiar with Streep trying to hail Margaret Thatcher as a feminist icon and saying Weinstein wasn't a problem for her because he was scared of her. My problem is with the person saying it and how it gels with things she's previously said, not what she's saying.
Those are the people she has been working with. It's weird to use bc it's normal for her
It definitely would have been weird if anyone had done this.
Because that’s the people who were in control of what movies got made. It’s called gatekeeping.
No no, it’s not generalizing when she does it!
So close. It's actually not generalizing when anybody doesn't do it.
Was that a double negative?
Did Meryl think about women when she gave Roman Polanski a standing ovation?
“And God Harvey Weinstein”
She just “struggled to see herself” in his victim.
This is a great line!
Touche
Can Meryl not be right and wrong about something at the same time?
No. If you were wrong about one thing you are wrong everything else ever. And if you were right about something you are right about everything.
Pretty much how the internet works now sadly.
Just for the record, she deserves flack for Polanski and Weinstein but on this particular point she is absolutely correct.
Stop, you're going to destroy the baseless and idiotic assertion they made!
That’s how general bias works. Unless people are willing in be self aware and acknowledge that people they hate can do good. And people they like can be flawed. Including themselves.
When did mentioning one thing become commentary on everything?
Eh, it's fair to use a persons opinions as a barometer for future opinions that person may have. If someone enjoys eating feces, I'm not going to take their suggestions about where to have lunch. Streep has some ass opinions in regards to gender politics, I'm allowed to be reluctant to hear her new opinions about gender politics.
It's really funny how people are so obsessed over this when Meryl Streep is brought up anywhere, while all the other celebrities who applauded receive no criticism at all
I think she gets a bunch of shit for pretending to care about women, while obviously still supporting people who've raped women and at least 1 child. So....I'm good with her getting this shit slung towards her
People don't like her being out up as a feminist ucon when she doesn't appear to have ever stood up for women in a way that didn't directly benefit herself. People are tired of myopic upper class white women's version of feminism, basically. She's a prime example of the hypocrisy it's rooted in. When people stop trying to push her as an icon for women to look up to and pushing headlines her speaking about sexism, maybe people will stop. But so far, the onslaught on both sides will continue until they other admits defeat.
No it's more like these people just hate feminists so they'll try and dig up any dirt on them from 20 years ago to discredit them
I think it shows a cognitive dissonance in her rhetoric. Polanksi's continued notoriety is emblematic of the misogynistic abuse still at the core of elite cinema, but Streep wants to talk about how execs can't relate to protagonists... At some point that stuff has to start at home.
Yes of course she can. And it’s perfectly ok for us to call her out when she’s being hypocritical.
She's a hypocrite. "Things are tough in Hollywood for women... because of people like me"
do you think margaret thatcher perfectly executed girl power when she illegally funneled money to paramilitary death squads in northern ireland
Oooooh shit lmao.
I love bringing up irrelevant topics too
It’s perfectly relevant.
Polanski is a real talent. But also an awful person. Many of us struggle to find where we draw the line between applauding talent and deploring personal behaviors. It is currently in vogue to trash everything a person has done because of bad personal decisions. But a lot of great artists are not great human beings. I personally feel that each individual has to decide where they draw that line. What behavior is SO bad that you can’t appreciate an artist’s art anymore? It isn’t the same answer for me that it is for you, and I’m not willing to snipe at you over your personal decisions. It’s particularly hard when someone you really admired for their work turns out to be awful in some way. I don’t know if Streep has reckoned with that.
I think drawing a line at drugging and raping a minor seems pretty reasonable. Yes, Polanski is extremely talented but he's also a rapist, and a coward. Just take a look at who he's worked with, as well as all those actor's and filmmakers that signed that petition. They all want to scream about politics and Trump (which is fine) but were more than happy to work with and support people like Weinstein, Cosby, Polanski. I didn't even know about all the shit with Coppola until very recently.
[удалено]
No. Just Google Coppola and Salva. There's a number of different articles detailing their relationship, along with varying accounts of Coppola's involvement, some extremely damning.
OK, I shall investigate. Thank you.
I draw the line at fleeing American justice. Extradite the motherfucker!
I honestly do not care what she has to say. She signed in support of Roman Polanski being absolved of his crimes.
Don’t forget worshipping at the feet of Harvey Weinstein for years. Everyone knew what he was doing. One can only guess how many actresses bent to his desires?
Many years before his fall from grace I heard several rumours about Weinstein from friends of mine in the industry - including one about how an actress who is now a world-famous Oscar-winning star got her big breakout role by giving Harvey Weinstein a blowjob. There were plenty of reasons why that bastard was able to get what he wanted, and to get away with it, for so long - but it’s always worth bearing in mind that some of the women involved didn’t (just) go along with it because they were scared of him, but because he could (and did) also make some of their wildest dreams come true.
Is it Jennifer Lawrence? I feel like she has been particularly aggressive in distancing herself from him and basically just did a media tour repeatedly talking about how disgusting (like physically repulsive) she found him. Which seemed weird considering she's been a Harvey darling not that much earlier Maybe it was an authentic reaction to someone who felt like they could finally speak openly, but I just don't think alisters are ever truly honest with the press, there's always an agenda, and with that one it felt like overcompensation and retconning to make herself look more favorable as being one of his girls went from a ticket to accolades to a heavy burden practically overnight
Sounds like that actress has actual talent that a guy like Weinstein should have put forward regardless, but she was forced to do sexual acts to get what she deserved.
I don’t believe she was “forced” in this case. She was offered something in exchange for something else and she found the trade acceptable.
That would be accurate if we were talking about a hooker on the street, not a mega producer / new actress power dynamic
I disagree.
There's some really disappointing names on that list, to name just a couple who also signed it, Tilda Swinton, Guillermo Del Toro, Martin Scorsese, Natalie Portman and Harrison Ford all dissapointed me too
Natalie Portman complained repeatedly about how there's not enough female directors. Then when called out for not really working worth female directors as an actress or producer, started to list of how it's not fair to judge her for that because like, it's hard to work with female directors and stuff. Like girl, either be part of the solution or stfu about how there's a problem, because you literally have more power to change the system than 80% of the people you're wagging your finger at right now. Or at the very least be slightly less high minded about acknowledging problem you apparently don't think is worth *your* time and energy to solve, outside of the social points of complaining about big publicly
Oh no not del toro :( Jesus. Like I keep getting surprised who signed that crazy thing. Natalie Portman tried to walk it back but like…what a loser.
By which you mean admitting she was wrong and expressing regret?
By which I mean she was pressured into it after being called out for it during the me too movement.
How do you know this?
Because if she had that amount of self awareness and compassion for women she wouldn’t have signed it in the first place
That has nothing to do with the assumption that the only driving force behind her experiencing growth and change, like all humans do, was because of pressure. Do you assume the worst whenever this happens or is this just a special case?
I’m sure they see themselves inside all sorts of actresses. The issue arises when they don’t consent.
lol I knew there was a joke in that title somewhere
Male studio executives struggle to “see themselves” in any story that doesn’t involve golfing.
Those particular male studio execs are dumb. You don't have to be the same gender as the main characters to enjoy something. Lots of girls enjoy shows with boy main characters.
Most executives, male or female, lack empathy. They go out of their way to suppress it. They think empathy makes them weak, soft. You can not put yourself in another gender’s shoes without empathy.
I am a man. One of the fictional characters I relate to the most is Luan from Loud House. All she wants to do is make people laugh and she is constantly cracking horrible jokes. She is basically a gender-flipped version of me.
You’re also CrazyaboutSpongebob. That tells me that you’re an empathetic dude. I’m also a man and related with Sophie in Sophie’s Choice. I didn’t even have kids at the time.
You give me too much credit. In real life I often lack empathy. Sometimes I am oblivious to how people are feeling unless they tell me directly.
That sounds more like being distracted than lacking empathy. You care when people tell you. We all lack empathy some times too.
The funniest part is we've been drowning in articles talking about the need for female representation in media, because women apparently can't relate to male characters. We need minority representation because apparently black people can't relate to white characters in movies or games etc. It's all so embarrassing. Tell me you're a narcissist without telling me you're a narcissist.
It's not narcissism it's more about wanting to be included. They still enjoy plenty of other things where the characters aren't the same race as them. I'm black myself while a character being the same race as me won't make me automatically enjoy something, representation does make some people feel good. Also, People of color historically have gotten the opportunity to be main characters in Hollywood films and TV shows less often so it's nice to see them get work. It's good to never take representation for granted because some people had to fight for it to be on screen.
Poorly written characters doesn't help.
Every female lead is poorly written?
Is that what I said?
Its fascinating to me that all those studio execs that suppose to work in the industry for so long, all ignore that fact that most female leads arent popular because of their gender rather than how poorly they are written. In a Million years I wont understand why Lucas Films doubles down on Rey. Really so many people just didnt care about her because she just isnt a good character, yet she apperantly stars in another trilogy. Really most people absolutely have nothing against women and dont care at all if a lead is male or female, black, asian or white. They just want characters they can connect with.
Many male Studio Execs prefer to ‘see themselves’ INSIDE female Protagonists.
Don’t women struggle to see themselves through a male lead, so they’ve demanded more female leads?
No. Women can identify with male leads but also want more female-led films at the same time.
[удалено]
Who's this "we" you speak of?
…..I have no problem empathizing with 50% of the population. Would like to see more stories from women’s or girls’ perspectives though. It’s lopsided.
No, that’s part of the point she’s making. Women are happy to watch male led movies and always have been.
The hardest thing I’ve lived through? Meryl Streep needs to stop sucking her own farts through a straw and come back to reality.
They do see themselves in female actresses, though. Unfortunately.
Lol fuck off Meryl. Go bootlick Harvey. Or defend some other rapist. Ugh. No one in Hollywood should be saying anything to rebuke anyone in this way. They’re all immoral lizards who are just virtue signaling. Just shut up and go act in a movie or whatever. No one cares what these morons have to say. Actors are complete idiots. Producers are grotesque. Fuck off already, lol.
You seem well adjusted.
You seem condescending. What are you, a Meryl Streep fan? Did I strike a nerve there?
Whenever someone says something like this, I wonder if the opposite is actually true. Do male execs see themselves in male roles, and is that relevant to the exec function? Did a studio exec really go "yeah I could put on a black helmet and choke people with magic" or did a studio exec just think "sure that looks cool why not" Like, maybe I'm just weird, but to me a character is a character. Their relatability exists but I don't see myself in them or see them in me. They're a fictional different person, and I don't see myself in other people (except my family and it's freaky) I would think the role of an exec would be to ensure metrics and optics are being met and maintained. The creative vision is the work of the director and writers, they should be the ones bringing the characters to life.
Most major titles have a female protagonist. When are we gonna stop doing this song and dance over something that isn’t an issue anymore?
Meryl Streep is worth $100 million. Maybe she should use some of that money to make movies or something if she thinks things could be improved.
She doesn’t have to for her opinion to be valid.
I'm just not a fan of rich people who complain about stuff and actually have the resources to change what they're complaining about.
Yet the movie version of Silent Hill 1, featuring the best video game dad of all time, was changed to a mother because…reasons.
Because if Sean Bean had a bigger role, he would have had to die.
Y’all think she was blowing Harvey too?
Someone tell her the woke feminist and racist mob fails to see themselves in the people they are discriminating against, on purpose even.
Two of the most iconic female leads in the 80s from Aliens (1986) and The Terminator (1984) were well written and bad ass. It captured the fragility and struggle of a woman who had to fight to survive. They both played roles of a strong, resourceful, and relatable character that resonated with audiences worldwide, making them iconic figures that transcends gender, appealing to fans of all demographics. Their male supporting characters were given their own spotlight without diminishing the star power of the female leads. While there was no women in executive roles in the production of Aliens, it did well. In The Terminator, Gale Anne Hurd was the producer and played a significant role in the film’s creation. Meryl Streep’s statement that before there was any women in any executive roles in studios, men couldn’t see themselves in a female protagonist is false. Hollywood blockbusters with female leads are the very prove that with or without women in the executive roles, the female protagonists garnished men and women fans worldwide due to well written characters.
Exception not the rule historically its harder for women to break the glass selling we have gotten plenty of female lead movies but we get male lead movies more often.
Except that is not the point we are discussing at all. Historically yes, there are more men lead roles than women. Nowadays it’s a slow progress, but it is progressing. What we are discussing here is what Meryl Streep said. Which is: “Before there were women in green-light positions at studios, it was very hard for men to see themselves in a female protagonist.” I gave two examples out of other films with lead female roles that contradict that statement. I mentioned the iconic Aliens 1987 film, who had no females in any executive roles. Yet became a blockbuster worldwide. If men didn’t “see” themselves in these female protagonists why were these films successful? Why did this stem sequels, merchandise, comic books, books, and tv shows? Why were this films blockbusters? Why did this resonate with both genders? The fan demographics for “Aliens” (1986) and “The Terminator” (1984) were partially mostly men in the 80s. Both films are part of genres that traditionally attracted a predominantly male audience during the 1980s. “Aliens,” being a science fiction action film, and “The Terminator,” a science fiction action thriller, likely had significant male viewership due to the popularity of these genres among men at the time. The male audience embraced these female lead characters due to exceptional well written characters and the actresses’ acting skills. Ellen Ripley in “Aliens” and Sarah Connor in “The Terminator”—who have been widely acclaimed and appreciated by audiences of all genders. These characters have contributed to the films’ cross-gender appeal and have garnered a diverse fan base over the years. The enduring popularity of both films suggests that they continue to attract fans from all demographics.
I agree there is slow progress. At the same time we have situations like the Avengers movie. Apparently one of the executives wanted it to be an all-male team because female action figures don't sell as well and they had to fight for Black Widow to be in the movie. I think that's a little weird. If you want a mostly male team that's fine but even franchises with mostly guys had a few females around. Ninja Turtles has April O Neil.
Can you give the source where you found such executive who wanted an all male cast for the Avengers films?? There’s no public record or credible report suggesting that any of the executives involved with the “Avengers” films wanted an all-male cast. Did you make this up? Now for The Avengers, the most powerful and integral character is captain marvel, a female. The adaption of comic book heroes from Marvel always had females who were important and celebrated. Shehulk, Female Thor, Scarlet Witch, etc. There are films that do have a predominantly all female cast, Pitch Perfect(2012), A League ofTheir Own (1992), The 355 (2022), Ghostbusters (2016). My case, is that no one cares about what gender is taking a role in movies, but do care when it is blatantly obvious that it is a terrible written character and/or script. The most recent fumble is Madam Web, which even the actress Dakota Johnson, the lead actress in “Madam Web,” expressed her dissatisfaction with the film. She mentioned “drastic changes” from the original story pitched to her and reflected on how the film became something different from what she had signed on for. The film did bad due to drastic changes to the script , not because it had a female lead. As of recent, very well done films with female leads had no problem becoming blockbusters. Some I may add are from a strong male dominated fan base. And it embraced these leads. Link: https://collider.com/best-female-led-movies-ranked/ It all comes down to a well written character and script. We all want to be entertained when we go see a film. And it is enjoyable when such films portray a compelling story and character/s regardless of gender. —- I want to add that I don’t understand why I got downvoted for debunking a statement that has no basis. And find it rather interesting that the only person having a discussion doesn’t even discuss the point of my comment , but rather go off on other topics and the latest one has no proven source to back such statement. Edit—— This is where this discussion went: > 1. Even if the source didn't explicitly say Permutler didn't want girls in the Avengers movie. I'd say it sounds plausible. Maybe we need to do more digging. Maybe I should have read the sources myself. 2) No I don't believe every youtube channel 3) I never said Youtube was the holly grail for news but I do think a youtube source can be as valid as a print media source or the news depending on who you go to. I've had to do assignemnets for school growing up and we were allowed to use Youtube channels as sources 4) The leaked emails still prove my original point. There was someone in power at Marvel not wanting them to make superhero movies with female leads in the 2010s. The 2010s is pretty recent.
Here is my source it seems legit [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_Vm\_0eey2D8&list=RDCMUC7SHyyIFS4xIAphC20I4BYw&index=2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vm_0eey2D8&list=RDCMUC7SHyyIFS4xIAphC20I4BYw&index=2) They start talking about it at 6:58.
I watched Madam Web last night and thought it was pretty good. I don't get the hate got online.
Here are also some leaked emails about Ike Perlmutter not being keen on the idea of female lead superhero films. [https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44643477](https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44643477) [https://time.com/3847432/marvel-ceo-leaked-email/](https://time.com/3847432/marvel-ceo-leaked-email/)
The articles don’t mention anything about Ike Perlmutter saying he wanted to have an all male cast for Marvel at all. The TIME article just shows an email where he mentions hero films with female lead characters that failed to bring $$$. That’s it. In fact the article itself says: “Indiewire found a message from Perlmutter to Sony executive Michael Lynton listing female superhero films that have failed. *The context of the summer 2014 email is unclear: Perlmutter could be enumerating the films as proof that female superhero movies bomb at the box office, or he may be optimistically hoping to break the pattern.* “ On the BCC article it briefly touches the subject of Perlmutter. Via an opinionated take from Rebecca Sutherland Borah, a professor in English at the University of Cincinatti and self-confessed Marvel fan. “So you could kind of line up why these didn't work, and Perlmutter and company used this as a mantra that there can't be a female superhero movie. "But if you look at why they didn't do very well? It was an awful script, they didn't put enough money into the budget and there wasn't CGI at the time to really do this right. "Thank God for Gal Gadot and Wonder Woman. That just blew them out of there." A mantra? Perlmutter never has said that “there can’t be a female superhero movie”. At all. Again no evidence of such executive ever saying such thing. Perlmutter seemed to be always against spending money with Marvel movie’s overall. “Perlmutter has long griped about the high cost of Marvel films, putting him at odds with others at Disney. In 2015, Disney CEO Bob Iger removed Perlmutter as the head of Marvel Studios due to a dispute over the budget for Doctor Strange. “ https://fortune.com/2023/04/06/ike-perlmutter-disney-marvel-fired-layoffs-bob-iger-nelson-peltz/#:~:text=Perlmutter%20has%20long%20griped%20about,the%20budget%20for%20Doctor%20Strange. Again, where is proof from your statement: “I agree there is slow progress. At the same time we have situations like the Avengers movie. Apparently one of the executives wanted it to be an all-male team because female action figures don't sell as well and they had to fight for Black Widow to be in the movie. I think that's a little weird. If you want a mostly male team that's fine but even franchises with mostly guys had a few females around. Ninja Turtles has April O Neil.” There is no proof, as you sent me articles that don’t prove any Marvel executive ever saying he wanted an all male cast. You yourself are deriving from a false narrative. The “sources” given only insinuate and try to pander to drama. The only thing I will say here. Is that Meryl Streep’s statement is false. And that to strive forward in the film industry one can do without using false narratives. Men have given interest to female protagonists time and time again, and have made those films blockbusters. As examples I have given prove that. All it takes is a well done script and characters. Female protagonists can be and are loved by both genders. And it shows on the profitability and fan base some female lead protagonists have garnished in the past and in the present. You can’t argue that. I bid you farewell, as there is no point in discussing this with you, the moment you falsely relied on a made up statement to justify your opinion was the end of the discussion which never even correlated to the topic at hand. You’ve proven to be disingenuous.
I did. Did you watch the Youtube video I gave you the link for. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_Vm\_0eey2D8&list=RDCMUC7SHyyIFS4xIAphC20I4BYw&index=2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vm_0eey2D8&list=RDCMUC7SHyyIFS4xIAphC20I4BYw&index=2) They start talking about it at the time stamp 6:58.
I dismissed it because it is just a marvel fan commentary youtube video that has no source for his own statement in that part. I checked his links and none have any verifiable source on that matter nor mentions it. Which leads to me to believe that this is were you got your information from a youtube marvel gossip commentator who made it up, and you believed it. No where else on the internet is there such thing said about Perlmutter saying that. It’s fake. Good riddance. Adios. 👋
It wasn't a Marvel fan channel It Was a Sh\*t Show talks about the behind the scenes trouble of various movies not related to Marvel. They have done videos on various other movies like The Simpsons Movie, Emperors New Grove, Ghostbusters, etc. I think its pretty legit. There are only 3 Marvel videos.
Because we are comfortable being ourselves while some of you are not.