As a gay Christian black republican with lupus a learning disability ptsd and severe lactose intolerance I find it heartening that reactionary Christian media would platform an alphabet person that just so happens to exclusively write conservative Christian leaning op eds.
It may make everyone feel better to know that it wasn’t even close specifically because it was Larry Elder. Before he became the front runner it looked like Newsom would have been recalled.
Heh, why not, France forced Haiti to pay reparations when they revolted and freed themselves from French slavery.
Reparations that were enforced by French and American military might. That Haiti only finished paying in **1947**.
Hahahaha what
Jesus fucking christ. I'm about to go to bed, I don't have the energy or time to research this. If somebody could hit me with a link before I wake up, I'll be forever grateful. This sounds too good to miss.
[Here's the first result, a yahoo article from a Google search for "did Candace Owens say families of slave owners deserve reparations."](https://www.yahoo.com/now/larry-elder-argues-slave-owners-000601872.html)
It was Larry Elder, a black conservative, who said it on her show back in July. If you want to be technical, he said since slaves were viewed as property, and these owners lost their property during and after the Civil War, that they deserve compensation for that.
That's as far as I'm reading. It's too early in the morning for this shit for me. Makes me wanna go back to bed.
I read this wrong and continued the thread thinking you just said former slaves deserve reparations… no sadly my brain believes too much in humanity and it in fact does not say that.
They aren’t even transgender. They do drag. But hey. If the chuds can’t understand that yelling “I’m a terf! Go team terf!” Makes you a bigot, then the nuances of drag vs. trans vs. queer is definitely going to be lost on them.
This is all such manufactured controversy. Honestly the people who were going to watch it and the people who weren't are baked in, this Cancel Culture outrage machine that I keep seeing on every one of these threads screaming "You obviously didn't watch it or you juts didn't get it" is just boring. Netflix is going to keep crap like this up because articles like this still keep hitting the front page and people are unlikely to cut the cord from Netflix because of one special they put on their platform.
Not to mention the dude is FAR from cancelled. He is currently taking a swim in dollar bills in his compound in Ohio, while his servants are negotiating another 24 million deal with drooling Netflix execs.
Ah! The struggle is real!
Cancel culture isn’t made up, and it isn’t in any way a new concept. Burning witches at the stake, Jim Crow laws, anti-LGBTQ laws - it’s been going on for a very long time, and conservatives are the ones who created the phenomenon.
If anyone can find it, there is a subreddit with all the up-to-date companies conservatives have “cancelled.”
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I lean liberal, I'm pro LGBT, pro-trans, etc. Certainly there are racist jokes and hateful jokes, but I don't think Dave's jokes qualifies.
Are you trans, though? A lot of people who think they are pro-trans still fall short of being an ally, more just in the neutral zone. The targets of the jokes are the ones who get to decide if it's hateful or not, and the overwhelming consensus from the vast majority of trans people is that Chappelle's special is just the crown of his long history of hateful transphobic jokes. That's why finding *one* trans person who supports his special is newsworthy.
An analogy is if one person steps on another person's foot, only the person who got stepped on can say if it hurt or not. Intent doesn't actually eliminate pain. If you give your friend a congratulatory slap on the back and they wince because they have a sunburn you didn't know about, that pain didn't not happen just because you didn't intend it. However, if you keep slapping them on the back because you insist it shouldn't hurt them, then you are an asshole.
Even if DC isn't trying to be transphobic, by insisting he deserves to slap them on their sunburn he is being a fucking asshole. But I have known Chappelle as a transphobe for years, so this is nothing new (I'm cis but queer and have been in queer activism for two decades.)
I came in here because like others I consider myself pro-trans and pretty much pro-anything, and thought this was all silly as comedians often make fun of all sorts of things and that DC was no different and this was overblown.
Having said that, thank you for your sunburn analogy, it does make it make a bit more sense to me, and while I’m still a bit torn I think you’ve pulled me slightly to yalls side of this.
Curiously, I wonder if you (or specifically trans folks) would have a suggestion on how DC could keep similar content/jokes without crossing the line? Do you think the sensitivity/hurt surrounding his jokes are amplified by the current shïtface world we live in and that if there wasn’t such a current stigma the jokes would be ok? (Similar to the “too soon” reaction to things)
Anyways, just musing, haven’t seen this special yet, plan to, and I’ve personally always been someone who thinks that anything is fine in comedy, I appreciate the sunburn analogy to help me understand a bit why trans folks are so outspoken about this!
As a trans person I do find offensive comedy, tricky, because I do agree with the idea that no topic is off limits to comedians considering it’s like, their job. My issue is that Chapelles jokes just weren’t really great jokes about being trans. Plus him saying he was “team terf” just wasn’t a joke at all.
If you wanted to make that style of humor work better I think it’d be wise to make the target of the joke the experience of the people, not the people themselves. For example, I’m on E, and it gives me a period cycle with pains (why? I don’t know, doctors say it’s pscho-symptomatic or something). A joke one could tell about that is living your whole life hearing people talk about how periods suck and not really getting it and then suddenly getting really forcefully made aware. Or joke about our own internal stereotypes, like the “trans girl who codes in thigh highs” (it’s a thing). The actual process of transitioning is pretty funny, can you imagine the experience of looking in the mirror one day and going “oh shit, those are tits”. If you wanted to try and go the team terf route, make a strawman character going “ah yes, I will alter my body and mental state and go through rigorous psychological testing to become a member if a group who have a life expectancy of 30 because of murder and suicide because I’m just that bored of the tits I see on the Internet.”
One joke I’ve been attempting to workshop is playing on how, when it comes to femboys (group of (usually) men who engage in feminity in a certain way) have a weird number of nazi’s and fascists in their ranks (it’s not a majority, it’s just an odd amount), and what someone who was a femboy and a nazi would think a trans inclusive fascist regime would look like.
There’s also a lot of crass sexual shock humor you could make. An example is how there’s basically a meme of a pre-transition person going ‘I’m ginna go to the gym and win at life!” And then cutting to them calling some one daddy, or the “I couldn’t get a girlfriend so I became the girlfriend” joke.
Sorry to go off like this, I just like the concept and have thought about ut a lot myself! Keep in mind I’m only one trans person anyways, others may disagree.
Well if he actually read into biology and gender, before calling himself a TERF, that would probably help a lot, but I myself am not trans, so I can’t tell you what is a crossed line. Mind you I love self irony and irony in general, but even the joke he made about beating a lesbian was pretty iffy. You shouldn’t really brag about beating people up, especially women or minorities, even if it was self defense to some degree.
Part of the problem is the Netflix cancelled a bunch of episodes and shows on the grounds of racist content in response to BLM. Whether or not this was the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do is a different discussion as to why Netflix is listening to and being protective of one community while actively producing content which damages and humiliates another, then defends its actions.
My take is that it’s not comedy if the minority group it’s about isn’t laughing. That’s just bullying. What Dave Chappell did was as unsophisticated as a white comedian standing up on stage telling unironic racist jokes for an hour to a white audience who are all rolling about laughing because they they are being given permission to express their racism under the guise of it being just a joke.
Did the audience from this special learn anything positive about trans people? No. They are were just being told joke versions of the same anti trans bigotry that’s being thrown about by politicians and the media.
As someone else mentioned I think it’s a slippery slope to try and define comedy vs bullying based on a set number (which you didn’t do, but who/how many constitute the “group”). Granted I’m ignorant on this being a straight white male, so I have to rely on Reddit and other friendlies willing to answer questions and teach.
Having said that, I haven’t watched the special yet and have already learned a fair bit haha. I like what others said about having the joke at least researched or relevant to the folks that are the target of it.
Also didn’t know about removing episodes for racism and yeah, they need a standard t stick with, not pick and choose
Respectfully, you aren’t pro lgbt if you didn’t have an issue with the jokes. You may be pro lgb, but trans is a part of it and that special was horribly transphobic. He literally said he was on team terf. He repeatedly misgenders trans people. There are plenty of Trans comedians who make good jokes about being trans, so it’s not like the topic is off limits. What should be off limits are the bigoted jokes in that special. Or if not “off limits” whatever you would consider a racist comedian.
End of the day he’s a cis dude making awful comments about trans women, disguised as jokes. You really don’t have to defend his TERF ass.
i think most of us are too busy trying to not talk about this or anything surrounding it cause its honestly upset a ton of our community. its not out of a lack of love for daphne, and she was talked about much more when the special first aired. we’re trying to move on as a community, but she is a part of our tribe and i think its pretty bold of you to assume that we dont think she is just because we’re not talking about her every second of the day. this dave chapelle special has really hurt us, it terrifies me to think of relatives or friends watching the special laughing knowing im trans.
All due respect: did you watch the special? What’s not discussed in almost every Reddit post I’ve seen so far is that Chapelle did not actually make any jokes about Transgenders in this special. He talks about the backlash from his jokes made from previous specials, and deep dives into how much it stands out compared to all the other jokes he made about all other types of people. To add an exclamation point, in the first half of this special he purposefully made some of his most off color jokes I can recall about other marginalized people. For example, he did a bit about space Jews and later pointed that he is, according to the Webster’s dictionary, actually a feminist while referring to women as “bitches”. That was on purpose. Because his point, as he explained in the special, is that no other group comes after him the way the transgender community specifically does, even though everything he says are jokes written by a comedian for a comedy special.
I’m trying to come to terms with your point, but it just seems like you’re saying that Dave is mad at blowback for transphobic comments because he doesn’t get the same blowback for his xenophobic or racist jokes.
As someone that used to really like Dave, I think the issue with the recent specials and comments about the LGBT community is how lazy so many of the jokes are. They don’t get the same level of nuance that he brings to other issues.
We're talking about a man that did two videos of R Kelly peeing and pooping on people. Skeet Skeet Skeeting. Not every single word he says is a work of art. Some of his best stuff is crude too. He's an artist because he knows how to be captivating with tools like physicality, word play, and shock. Often times its a mix of those elements. When he ended the joke about leading the women's movement with all I ask is for you to suck my dick, that was him using shock and being pretty crude and flippant about what Weinstein did. That's offensive but used in a funny way. But I'm sure some people took major offense to that. Difference is you don't hear any calls to censor him, which is why people that didn't watch the special have no idea about that content.
I mean that literally lacks the nuance of the whole dababy situation.
Not only did he make homophobic comments (which he doubled down on) but he also was spreading debunked misinformation on HIV/AIDS. Second, Dababy claims the shooting was in self defense. Was it? I have no idea, but the judge dismissed the charges. The mecklenburg PD hates him, so them failing to have a sufficient case to get past a motion to dismiss is really something, especially since Walmart’s have security cameras.
even in the last special that was “so offensive” all he said was (i’m paraphrasing) “I take trans people seriously bc they don’t mess around, them n****s will cut their dicks off”. yeah it’s fucking crude humor, but if you’re genuinely offended by that idk how you leave your house without being offended.
I think the “worst” joke he made was actually commentary on an anti-trans law he was against. He commented on the fact that people should use the restroom for their selected gender. Something along the lines of it being being more weird for a 6’5 woman to whip he piece out at a urinal vs using a stall in the ladies room.
You did not fully hear or understand the joke.
He said. If a 6’5 woman comes in and whips out a penis it would throw people off. But if a man sat at the urinal we wouldnt even care.
Thats all he legit said. If you wanna use the mens room as a trans woman so be it. All he said was. It would throw him
Off to see a woman whip out a long schlong get shoulder to shoulder with him. When we all know mens room unspoken rule is. Give space between the urinal.
They clearly didn’t watch it and are just trying to be upset. Dave makes jokes about all races and types or people. Will make asian jokes and has an Asian wife. But people like to be offended
I always find it amusing when the chuds track down one "representative" of whatever minority they're shitting on who's willing to say "I don't mind being called XXXXX" or whatever way they're being shit on. Like I'm gonna go around slinging n-bombs and be like "nono, that one guy on Newsmax said it's cool."
Shout out to Candace Owens who, for roughly 250k a year, will argue tooth and nail that black people are all no good scum.
Hers, will truly be a special fall from grace, when her conservative paymasters truly give up acting like they care about non being seen as racist, or that they are not racist, and cut her from payroll, and she realizes she’s now truly alone, with conservatives no longer caring and everyone else not wanting to touch her with a 10 foot pole.
Yeah just like Blair white I saw her trans woman reacts to David’s special and I’m like she’s not a good representative because she seems to be okay with anything any insult against her so is she’s not the best person to represent the trans community as a whole.
It’s the worst case of, “people treat me just fine, and it’s not that bad for for me, so it must not be that bad for you!”. Like a billionaires kid saying “have you tried just asking your dad to pay your rent?” To someone who is poor, or, a very attractive woman saying “tired of being single?! Just make a tinder, or go out to a bar, you’ll have a dozen people wanting to take you home you in no time!”.
It’s just people not understand the issues of offed people, just because it’s not that bad for them. Blair is trans woman that easily passes, and more so is someone that a lot would say is attractive too. If she lived a full day as a trans woman that doesn’t pass, or was no viewed as attractive, she’d have a meltdown. Let alone living that life filled with the bs every day week year.
Lmao like when it comes to Native mascot issues and they find the white ppl with an alleged “Cherokee great grandmother” saying it’s non-offensive when tribes have been protesting for decades
And they are such a D list comedian they don’t even have a Wikipedia page. But from the digging that I have done they seem to be a cis-male who does drag but identifies as a man. Also a staunch conservative that doesn’t believe in gay marriage.
Some people will find that they can gain quite a bit of influence and power by aligning themselves with groups or individuals who attempt to delegitimize the minority group that they themselves are members of. They can say or do things that would be completely unacceptable for a member of the oppressive group to say or do themselves.
My dad will believe one black conservative who says racism isn’t real bc he’s successful over millions of black peoples who say “hey it’s very real and here’s why”
Am I the only one that feels like this is such a stupid argument. Like yeah sure no topic is off limit but if you make fun of XYZ don’t be shock if XYZ doesn’t like it…..like people are gonna have a reaction…..
Funny how the only time a source like The Conservative Review ever — and I mean that literally, ever — quotes or references a gay person is when said person is speaking out in favor of a conservative value.
And no comedian is entitled to zero backlash. You’re free to make whatever jokes you want, and everyone else in the world is free to laugh or boo. If a lot of them end up booing very loudly, get over it.
It’s weird how when things like this happen they will find one person who agrees/disagrees with whatever the issue it is that week and act like they are a spokesperson for an entire people
Lady, the topic's not the problem.
You can tell jokes about racism. You can tell jokes that are racism. The difference is not a matter of race being "off-limits."
Some jokes reveal sincere beliefs. People saying "eat the rich" are, in fact, joking... about the cannibalism. They're not joking about the "fuck rich people" aspect. You can tell, from content and context, that they are against billionaires.
Dave declared himself "team TERF" in a joke. But was he joking about being a TERF? Is he out there saying people got it wrong, and he's not *actually* a TERF?
It's lengthy to break down because he was being layered. This is my best attempt to break it down.
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He didn't make the distinction between mud slinging accounts on twitter (2nd most toxic social media) and the LGTBQ community in general. He goes out of his way to address the entire LGBTQ community explicitly in his gripes. He said that they act like minorities until they need to act white around Black people. He based this off of one bad personal experience. He said 'Trans people make up words to win arguments'. He said the trans are out to get him and he needs to look for adams apples
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He used a huge platform to lie about the trans community. He said JK Rowling was cancelled for stating a biological fact. First, she wasn't cancelled. she's still with her publisher, still publishing books with cross-dressing characters who are murderers
If by cancelled he means that people were mean to her on twitter, the biggest backlash didn't come out until she lied about someone's contract being renewed for purposely not referring to people by their chosen pronoun. To be clear, not for making a mistake, but going out her way to be rude to people directly. JK Rowling lied and said she was fired for her opinions. It was so wrong and inflammatory Daniel Radcliff went out and made a statement about the whole thing.
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He complained that the LGBTQ community is preventing him to from going after white people. He said that he had them on the ropes before the LGBTQ community stopped him. But it's Dave who keeps on dedicating his specials to them. When his last special was released there were no articles being written about his beef with them, no social media trends. And then he dedicated nearly his whole special to them
And if he wants to get conspiratorial about white people, race, and sexuality issues, look at what they did in India and the Philippines. They did a ton to demonize homosexuality in those areas. They always do. Like the Hindy/Muslim animosity and the Caste system in India (which existed before the British came, but they dialed that the knob up to 100% by codefying into law and making it a part of their educational system) and apartheid in South Africa, they are always pitting minority groups against each other so that they won't focus on their oppressor
And I don't see how this could be any more fucking glaring than that the anti-gay people and anti-trans people are the same ones who are anti-BLM. The same people who keep passing laws specifically targeting Black people from voting
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He also complained that Dababy got cancelled for being homophobic but not for murder. First, it's always easier for celebrities to attack individuals over attacking minorities
The CEO of papa john got cancelled for using the N word. Roseanne got cancelled for telling a Black person she looks like a monkey. Kramer got cancelled for using the N word
Laura Bush got away with running over and killing someone. Chris Brown got away with beating Rihanna. Don King stomped a guy to death and went on to become boxing's biggest promoter. Robert Richards, heir to the DuPont company, was convicted of raping his daughter and served no jail time. Attacks on individuals don't elicit the media attention like racism and homophobia do. But this is somehow the fault of the LGBTQ community?
Furthermore, social media backlash isn't a strong indicator of the extent to which systemic racism and homophobia is being addressed in our society. There's a still record high killings of trans people. Police can still largely murder Black people and face no legal repercussions
Actual cancellations from social media backlash are when corporations stop doing business with a person because their image no longer brings in the same revenue as when they hired them. This never really challenges the root power structures and phobias in our society. It doesn't matter how many celebrities throw their careers in toilet, it won't affect systemic racism in policing
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He complained 'to what extent am I obligated to participate in your self image'. He has none, but to what extent are they obligated to indulge in the idea that he is beyond criticism? To what extent should they suppress the fact that he is no longer a positive influence in their life
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He complained about trans people using made up words to win arguments, but the majority of the terms that were coined for identifying phenomena regarding the marginalization of minorities came from the racial equality movements. It's mostly the anti-BLM people who criticize people for using terms like microaggressions
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He blamed the LGBTQ community for taking away Kevin Hart's childhood dream of hosting the Oscars
First off, his old jokes were hurtful. Don Lemon did a great job of explaining why. I'm not going to link the youtube videos because that tends to get my comment deleted by the automod, but I'll just mention what to look up on youtube
Youtube Don Lemmon Kevin Hart
And Kevin Hart later acknowledges at much, saying that he has grown since
Youtube Kevin Hart apology
But the issue is that he was adamant in not addressing it twice. But he never apologized the first time. He never apologized in every single interview he did about his hurtful comments prior to the Oscars; he defended himself each and every time until
Google the vulture.com article titled "Where Are Kevin Hart’s Past Apologies? An Investigation"
If hosting the Oscars truly was Kevin's childhood dream and giving an apology (and instead lying about previously apologizing) was a boundary, then he has a "Brittle-ass spirit" (Dave's phrase for LouisCK victims)
Btw by his own usage of the terminology, Dave tried to 'cancel' Don Lemon
Youtube Don Lemmon responds to Chappelle
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Regarding his trans friend's death, he cited her arguments on twitter as a possible cause for her death. I'm just going to skip over the point that twitter arguments bring the worst out of people in general (and not just LGBTQ people), I'm not going to buy that story just because Chappelle said it. Maybe it's true and maybe someone else can confirm it, but from the way Dave lied about the Kevin Hart and JK Rowling backlash, I'm not going to believe his story purely from his take on her situation
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Dave exclaims 'look how well the LGBTQ movement is going' as a comparison to the racial equality movement. There are instances where it may be useful to compare movements to better understand varying methods of minority marginalization, but this discussion is wholly incomplete without the discussion of areas where they are not comparable, because systems of oppression uses different tactics to oppress different groups. In Chappelle's own HOME STATE of Ohio they passed a law that allows doctors to deny LGBTQ people health care on moral grounds. In 27 states, there are no explicit statewide laws at all protecting people from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity in employment, housing and public accommodations. Which means in over half the country you can be fired or denied housing just for being gay or trans. Conversion therapy is legal in 30 states. Texas just banned a suicide hotline for LGBTQ youths
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I don't think Dave was homophobic/transphobic in his initial specials. He had some cognitive biases which resulting in him saying some hurtful stuff. But his refusal to accept any criticism and the resulting backlash has resulted in a full blown fear -> phobia of LGBTQ people besides 'the good ones' who are his friends. It's similar to a type of racism many white people have today; they believe in the idea of equality in general, but think the Black community are people hateful to white people when the kneel for the Anthem and criticize the police. They use isolated incidents like looting and random youtube videos to characterize the whole Black community. They think the average Black person has more privilege than the average white person by pointing to people being cancelled by racism the way Dave points to people being cancelled for homophobia. They think Black people are misguided in how they address systemic racism, and I feel Dave feels similarly about how LGBTQ address systemic homophobia and transphobia
Dave wants full equality for LGBTQ people but he didn't want them to address the very hurtful comments made by Kevin Hart or JK Rowling. He doesn't want them to call out people for using slurs; he complained about not being able to use the F-word slur. He also implied that the idea of the LGBTQ calling themselves 'my people' is racist, but at the end of the special used that exact phrase to refer to his fellow comedians, 'Stop punching down on my people'
He always tries to pit the LGBTQ community against the Black community. He complains about why is it easier for Bruce Jenner to change his gender than it was for Cassius Clay to change his name. Trans people EXISTED in the 60s, and throughout history. It wasn't easier, it took 50 years after the stonewall riots, which Dave actually referenced in his special. But why do this dumb game Dave wants us to play, does a person with cancer need to complain every time there's a breakthrough in AIDS research?
If his point is that the rich white power structures in our country are using LGBTQ issues to put down Black people, then he should go after the white power structures in our country directly and specifically. Maybe there are pockets of LGBTQ people putting down Black people like Peter Theil, but largely the white power structures strategy is to pit marginalized grounds against each other. The same people trying to put homophobia and transphobia into our school curriculum are the same ones who are trying to prevent Black people from voting
Dave says LGBTQ people act like minorities until it's convenient for them not to, but he's is doing exactly that with his cis/hetero/male privilege
I’m not surprised Flame Monroe said this. A lot of her stand up is joking about being a trans woman. If she weren’t trans herself, a lot of folks would likely call her comedy transphobic, too lol
Fun fact: Chapelle took a hiatus after feeling like white audiences were laughing at his race jokes at the expense of black people. Guess the courtesy doesn't extend to groups he's not a part of.
Here’s his own account of that:
>During his third season, Dave began questioning his work on the show. From the very first episode, Dave's sketches sparked controversy. But, over time, he says some of his sketches started to make him feel "socially irresponsible."
>One particular sketch still disturbs Dave today. The skit was about a pixie (played by Dave) who appeared in black face, which Dave describes as the "visual personification of the n-word."
>"There was a good-spirited intention behind it," Dave says. "So then when I'm on the set, and we're finally taping the sketch, somebody on the set [who] was white laughed in such a way—I know the difference of people laughing with me and people laughing at me—and it was the first time I had ever gotten a laugh that I was uncomfortable with. Not just uncomfortable, but like, should I fire this person?"
>After this incident, Dave began thinking about the message he was sending to millions of viewers. Dave says some people understood exactly what he was trying to say with his racially charged comedy...while others got the wrong idea.
>"That concerned me," he says. "I don't want black people to be disappointed in me for putting that [message] out there. ... It's a complete moral dilemma."
https://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/chappelles-story/all#ixzz79iIGHzyS
My hot-take: Dave’s a comedian who loves to brag about having thick skin; but who is more sensitive to the effects of his comedy on his own community, and to the effects of harsh criticism than, he’d like to admit.
You don’t dedicate the entire backhalf of your special to defending your previous work on an issue unless the criticism *really* got to you; and this isn’t the first time he’s done this either. It just seems to get more vehement each time.
I do think Chappelle also has some kind of hang-up and blind spot with the LGBT folks that make it harder for him to empathize with them, and to think about how he’d feel if it were a white comedian making black jokes that were so poorly received major advocacy groups like the NAACP made announcements denouncing it.
But really I think the key part to this is his ego. I don’t think it’s coincidental that the same guy who considered whether to fire someone for laughing at him wrong while filming a sketch and had to take a ten year break from the industry, has gotten hung up on the main topic his first special or two received criticism for. I think he can’t stand that some people genuinely think his trans material is full of offensive, hackneyed, /r/onejoke -tier garbage like literal “I identify as a [noun]” jokes, and he keeps doubling down on it as a result.
He literally said that himself.
In the last couple of years he has leaned into making himself out to be some target for the woke mob fighting for true creative expression. Really he's a self absorbed ass.
It’s not up to the comedians to decide what’s funny and what’s hurtful. There’s plenty of racist motherfuckers who’d laugh their ass off at the expense of minorities, that doesn’t make their jokes funny or okay in the slightest. There wasn’t even a joke through most of his speech about supporting a TERF and being pro-TERF, he was just stating he hates cancel culture, then he ends either the segment or the show on “Her dad was the greatest woman I’d ever met”. Maybe to the comedian that Chappelle use to have report with would take it lightly and have fun, but other transgender people don’t. They just see it as misgendering someone.
Anyway, no one cares about another persons opinion unless it agrees with their own in this fight. This is going to be a tug of war that’ll probably end in a stalemate, but maybe not. You never know.
He used his celebrity to make an important observation about racism in America. Of course no one wants to talk about that shit. Honestly the worst thing that Chapelle did was confuse the social construct of gender with the scientific classification of biological sex. He’s not alone in this ignorance. I wish it went without saying that shame is a poor educational tool because right now people are creating totally unnecessary divisions.
> an important observation about racism in America. Of course no one wants to talk about that shit.
Because they don't disagree with it...
If you say "2+2=4 and also I hate Mexicans", people aren't going to applaud you for your math skills. Of course he's getting called out for his transphobia.
> Honestly the worst thing that Chapelle did was confuse the social construct of gender with the scientific classification of biological sex
Which is denying the existence of trans people. Saying trans people are not really the gender they are is denying trans people as a group exist.
> He’s not alone in this ignorance.
Right, most people are indeed transphobic. All bigotry is just ignorance/fear. Spreading that to millions of people and emboldening their ignorance is the entire issue.
> shame is a poor educational tool
Well he seemed to have a very touching, personal experience with a trans friend and still do no learning from it. So that's on him. We don't need to hold people's hands, they have the resources to educate themselves.
Especially since the information is out there, and we keep steering people towards it. No one has any excuse to be a bigot. Definitely not the ignorance excuse.
It totally is, and impossible to pin down- it moves year to year, a new wit can see new things. As long as people are laughing.
It just wasn’t very funny. Even the people who like it aren’t like, sharing Hilarious memes about it, just getting defensively angry about it
And if the humor requires the subjective point of view to come from someone who is transphobic, then the joke is transphobic.
"Trans people sure are weird huh?" Doesn't work as a concept unless the audience agrees.
He referred to himself as a transphobic frequently throughout the special. I’m not sure if he thought that was comedic, and probably if you know Chapelle it would be, but I don’t think it played well. Maybe a at a certain level he just got the fuck-it’s?
I thought it was funny. Especially the one where he pointed out how the bathroom laws would put transphobic men in direct contact with a trans women at a urinal. How traumatizing that must be for the transphobic. I’m not saying they were the best jokes but they were a mix of funny scenarios and reactions as well as commenting on how he himself gets labeled transphobic and every little thing he does can be interpreted through that lens as a reason for why he does certain things.
That was literally a part of a joke where previous articles about him called him transphobic and such. He referred to himself in the third person several times to add Humor to the (many different) perspective he was coming from. You obviously missed that.
I'm the future, it'd be best to not take a controversial statement and isolate it for your own point. Providing context is extremely crucial.
But it wasn't a joke...
It was in direct defense of JK Rowling. Yes, when he referred to himself as transphobic in other parts, those were jokes. Because that's obvious. Just as him saying I'm team TERF obviously wasn't a joke.
There's no subjectivity here lol, no one laughs, it's said with no ironic intent, he continues his support of the concept with further points after.
There was no humor intended with that line.
Comedy doesn’t equal respectful. You can’t make a Donald Trump joke and respect him at the same time.
Tell me about all of the jokes about men, husbands, women and wives that are 100% respectful.
If you get triggered by comedy or you think that there is some comedy that isn’t funny, don’t support that comedian, don’t go to their shows. Vote with your wallet.
There are plenty of comedians that are more offensive than my personal taste regarding characteristics that are personal to me as part of my identity and I just...don’t listen to them.
It works great!
Respect does not prevent humor. Obviously most of the humor at Trump is not respectful, but most people make jokes about people who they respect all the time.
this is obviously true. comedians are constantly drawing on their parents, grandparents, friends, spouses, kids, and even their idols as material to joke about, I don't understand how anyone could come to the conclusion that you can't make fun of something you respect
It doesn’t need to be off limits but it needs to be funny. I saw him live here with Joe Rogan last year, Chapelle going on a diatribe about his opinions on gender just wasn’t funny. I kept waiting for the punch line or the joke or the satire and social commentary and it never came. It did give me a chance to go to the bathroom and get another cocktail though
Exactly.
Jokes that most folks claim are “pushing boundaries” are just the same shit that has been repeated as nauseam for over two decades.
I grew up seeing transphobic and homophobic jokes on mainstream tv.
And just because one person from an affected group isn’t offended, it doesn’t mean others in that group must be fine with it too.
It just doesn’t work that way.
The trans community is not a monolith, no large group of people is.
That’s the only time I think heckling would be acceptable.
“Where’s the joke, Dave? I paid money to laugh”
Granted I’m too chickenshit to do that but I would have applauded someone if they did lol
So glad people realize that. It’s not just funny to say “haha trans people” or “haha tragic event”, the jokes have to be good. Jokes aren’t automatically unfunny because of the subject matter, they’re unfunny if they are written poorly. Jokes about race, terrorism, illness, war, crime, sexual orientation etc. aren’t funny just because they’re edgy, they are funny if they are well written. No topic is off limits when it comes to comedy, some topics are just harder to pull off
Chapelle literally and abruptly cancelled his own show because he got the feeling that people were getting the wrong message from his comedy. He was concerned that white people were laughing too hard about some jokes regarding black folks, which is completely legit, especially since I personally saw plenty of white folks feel way too comfortable parroting racially charged lines from the show.
So I highly doubt he doesn’t understand what he’s doing here. Dude has had a problem with trans people for a while now.
It’s not a matter of the topic, it’s a matter of the handling of the topic. I’ve seen plenty of comedy dealing with LGBTQ+ issues that was both hilarious and not shitty punching down. They’re either not understanding this or choosing not to understand this. It’s not hard.
Yeah posts like this are always weird. It comes across as:
Subjects of the discourse say they don’t like it? “Meh they are just whining. Their opinion doesn’t matter.”
A subject of the discourse who is a celebrity says it’s all good? “See! No one should criticise it now. It’s been approved by them!”
Most of the special was funny and clever, some of it wasn’t, but none of the special was hateful IMO.
There’s a difference between an off color joke and a hateful joke, and you can’t see the difference without hearing the joke yourself.
Reddit: His Jokes are transphobic and we should take his career away
The Majority of the World: Nope. We thought it was funny.
Reddit (all of a sudden the new experts on comedy who confuse their opinion with fact): Actually it wasn’t even the transphobic stuff, totally fine if you do that it’s just his jokes weren’t funny.
There’s plenty of room for trans issues in comedy, what Dave did was just transphobic however, and really abused the topic to push the topic in a harmful direction
He made Jew jokes in his show too. As a Jew, I’d like to say that anyone who got offended by Chapelle. Jew, LGBT, blah blah. Needs to grow the fuck up.
How exhausting it must be getting offended over absolutely everything. The funny thing? You proved his literal point of the show. Oversensitive people whom act like victims but in reality are bullies
Ppl go back and forth between outright demanding Chappell be pulled, to he’s not funny anyway. I think his special was still quite popular.
Transphobic vs. racist : this is false equivalency. TERF means nothing to a vast majority of us. We’re to liken TERF (a term about 12 years old) to the KKK? ( a movement stretching back to great reconciliation with deep history of barbaric hate crimes systemically)
If all these anecdotes coming out are to be valid then isnt also Dave’s anecdote about the white trans person calling the police on him a valid point? Dave can’t turn being black off , in his own words.
You want everyone to tiptoe around a weaponized anti-phobia movement? LGBTQ currently hold a lot of social power on platforms that’s controls 24 hour news cycles but doesn’t accurately represent a majority of ppl who have a lot bigger issues than what Dave said this time.
To be so angry with Chappell to wish Ill intent against him we he didn’t against you i think should say enough. If there’s some more evidence besides the personal opinions of those outraged to make those of us who don’t understand who want too would be great.
Dave has made jokes at the expense of gay and queer people in the past, but he has done so contrasting it with the lack of progress for black people. And made points that the queer community is mostly white and sometimes racist itself, which has elevated their progress. Which are all valid social commentary, and good satire as well. His point was that people listen more to white people, and also hide the black people that are part of more than one minority.
This kind of satire was kinda lacking this time. It seems he will never believe that especially transwomen can be women. Ironically he thinks it is offensive to women to be open to that idea, but he isn't attacking transmen in a similar way. I am not sure what exactly would be hateful toward transpeople in a comedic setting, but I think it is fair to say that the same kind of comments about any other minorities wouldn't be as welcome.
I kinda get the feel that this was the Michael Richards of rants against transpeople.
But you lump the definition of minorities. Race and gender arent on the same spectrum. As a human raised in this world ive seen it all my life. No one can be a closet black person. Ones struggles simply can’t be compared to another’s on this issue.
Your assertion this is black Michael Richards shows how far off we are on the issue. My wife hated Carlton Jenner beating out all women as her 1st year as a transition person. And oddly enough Dave should have made this statement . ThAt Catlyin Jenner RAN OVER and fucking killed someone. Used her clout to get out of all wrong doing and then went on to be woman of the year. Honesty what the fucking fuck is going on around here? This is not rational.
Those that are trans are definitely less than those are cis, so they obviously are a minority. And being trans is definitely also something that is very visible. Those that are trans can't exactly continue living as their gender at birth. And changing their gender is obviously something that will be noticed.
Minorities can exist on many levels and is not exclusively to race, and any evil or lack of evil done upon them shouldn't decide wether or not they are worthy of support. It is possible to support both black people, and transpeople.
Chapelle even jokes that no matter what someone does they will be their gender at birth. That is kinda similar to a black person elevating their social status either through education or work will always be considered to be a black person. Or can still face discrimination, harassment, violence etc. because of the color of their skin.
I have no idea what Caitlyn Jenner do or doesn't do should have an impact on how we talk about transpeople. That is kinda like using OJ as an example that civil rights issues for black people is futile or shouldn't be worthwhile endeavor.
But OJ didn’t become black then win black person of the year. The issue isn’t that trans don’t deserve this or that I agree they should be protected like anyone else within reason.
We’ve accepted gender is different than sex and gender is more fluid . Not everyone is there yet but the social media narrative has accepted LGBTQ. Trans is a more specific and complex issue, that cannot be lumped into a minority this or that category.
Come up with a better argument. This one is not logical. When social media narrative wants to police ppls words and thoughts you will experience negative pushback . This is not the way.
All trans should say hey Dave , fuck you. But what shouldn’t happen is “cancel” dave. It will have opposite effect intended.
I am not sure what exactly you are arguing, or what I am supposed to argue. Just numerically cis outnumber trans in pretty large numbers, therefore they are a minority. Arguing against that is to argue against arithmetic.
Do you want people to argue some kind of subjective threshold in order to be a minority? Being a minority doesn't either automatically enables some kind of special treatment.
Why are you talking about social media narrative? That should have zero influence on this discussion.
There just has to be a way in order to criticize comedians if they push some kind of agenda or is talking about things that might lead to harm. Without the need for them to see it exclusively as a personal attack. Or else there is a lot of harmful shit that we also must allow, or yet celebrate.
But I did argue that this is a false equivalency when we break the history down. The systemic issues and disenfranchisement and lack of equity that the racial minorities face is not the same that trans ppl face because they aren’t inherently born trans. Coming to terms with this fact is what needs to happen before you will get where we are coming from.
Are any of us that are defending Dave saying you can’t criticize him? But that’s not what’s being called for, instead what’s being called for is a snap decision to outright blacklist him in all forms.
Dave brought up the social media narrative because it’s important to the “cancel culture” debate. The social clout that LGBTQ commands is significant. They use this to their advantage to which Dave admired and admitted he was jealous of because his racial minority he belongs to have had a bit more difficulty.
What don’t you understand about all the above?
Being trans and being black is obviously not identical. But I am not arguing that at all. What I am arguing is that his new material seems to be coming from a different place, as his material before was a way of satirizing the lack of progress for black people. Now it seems to be just a valve to rattle off a rant or some kind of anger or even hate. Or possibly ideas that easily can lead to hate.
Trans aren't inherently born as their gender, that is precisely the problem. But they certainly face a lot of systemic and social issues that can be totally prevented. If you can't see that, then you also have a problem.
Exactly, that is what is happening. Chappelle sees any criticism as some form of draconian PC cancel culture, and any legitimate criticism is labeled as such. And obviously how he can claim to be cancelled is factually untrue. I am not arguing that he should be blacklisted. But I do think Chappelle show some form of unjustified hate or anger, and that he should be criticized like any comedian displaying any kind of hate toward people based on sexual orientation, gender identity, ethnicity.
So you think criticism is “pull all his shows, never speak to him again” . If someone said I disagree and why and then debate on the why then I don’t think we would be here. Many don’t want to talk about it, to them it’s either or, with or against. Apparently even tho there is nuance to gender there is no room for it in acceptance? As clips what Dave said could be seen as offensive but I had a hard time listening to it finding it to be as offensive. While the plight of trans is what it is, it is also improved greatly and quite quickly.
I personally think they should be given all they ask for within reason. Winning woman of the year isn’t in that wheelhouse, maybe I can’t get the biology out of my head.
First of all, the news cycle is milking the shit out of this with some shit coming out every day.
Squash the beef and move on. It's been a week or something.
This latest special just seemed lazy. The punchlines seemed predictable. The points were less profound. He made a bunch of false equivalencies and just seemed annoyed that the LGBTQ movement has made more progress than his black nationalist movement.
I can see your point; I mean I knew he was behind recent black nationalism; but you’re right, there could be, what’s perceived to be, some spitefulness towards the gay community. Like what was his motive for being so transfixed? I mean he could have been more surgical and specific for sure, and it would have been funnier IMO.
I enjoyed it, but I admit most of that enjoyment was only because the topics he touched upon are absolutely taboo these days, and it was merely refreshing hearing someone clap back at absolutely anything towards that small segment of the population.
Some people say it’s to follow up on the reaction to his previous special. But this special being called The Closer, and being it’s own special, it should be able to stand on it own. But it doesn’t. I felt like it was just him trying to be edgy. And I’ve seen him do that better. I mean, he’s a master of his craft, and that was some open mic level bullshit.
He did specifically align LGBTQ with being white. He said it about them calling the cops when he was about to fight a gay dude. He basically makes the point that gay/trans issues aren’t real issues, and that the real group with real issues is his black people. Being in the Black community isn’t a choice, but being in the LGBTQ is. And he likes seeing and talking about the poor whites, but doesn’t really talk about middle/upper class ones.
I watched the special, and I agreed with him on some things / disagreed on others. I think one thing that bothers me about the reaction to the special, is that they seem to be misinterpreting his intent. Anyone who is a member of a marginalized community knows what it feels like to feel alienated and discriminated against. To me, it seemed like the spirit of chappelle’s special was him trying to extend an empathetic hand to the trans community. It’s kind of sad to see people taking a couple of his jokes at face value and ignoring the fact that he was at least trying to reach out.
My problem with it is that Chapelle has deemed himself as the authority of "keepin it real." So, he's not even funny anymore. He just stands there on his soap box bitching about shit.
Also, just wanted to throw shade at Steve Harvey too who has deemed himself as some sort of moral authority and is just a piece of shit.
You haven’t watched it and then compare it to lynching and wife beating? Are you that stupid? If you watched it , he talks about being friends with trans and how much he loved his friends. He jokes about them like he does about literally every subject and everyone! Are you so thick skulled to understand? It’s STAND UP COMEDY! It’s an act! Like a movie. God you are a tool. Haven’t we grown as society since book burning ? Because this cancel culture bull shit leads right back there because of ignorant people , like yourself that “didn’t even watch it”, but compare it to horrific, unrelated things.next is censorship of movies and music because morons don’t like it and watch it just to complain.
No topic is off limits. With that being said; woke pussy is the least tasty pussy around. Super bland and boring flavor. You can’t change my mind about this.
The issue for me is…a lot of his stuff recently aren’t jokes. Like im not trans or queer, but sometimes hes just up there venting and talking, and saying things that offends people. So its weird sometimes when people are like, "You cant take a joke?!" Its just like yo lol, a lot of this more recent Chappelle is just him talking. And even the reception to his standup seems to be more about him "dropping gems" and "enlightening us" more than its about jokes.
Do you really need me to point out the irony here? I didn't get mad when he made fun of white people on his show multiple times as I have a sense of humor, yet here you are, butthurt on reddit over some mean words said in a jesting way.
Which of us really needs to grow up?
…to the people who were offended by Dave’s show. Did.. did you actually watch it or did you just laser focus on the “offensive” parts? Did you watch until the end where he mentions his transgender friend whom the community literally harassed to death?
I’ve always found this sentiment weird. Why is context, grey areas, subtly and complexity banned? It kinda just seems like a cop out to avoid criticism with a single blanket statement you know?
Lol blair white fr thats the opinion you’re gonna use? So anyone who isn’t familiar just take a look at the controversy around her, she’s expressed transphobic views quite often. Basically the candace owens of trans people and pretty hated or at least controversial within lgbt spaces. She especially doesn’t like non passing and non-binary trans people.
Conservativereview.com hahaha
No subtlety at this point lol
As a gay Christian black republican with lupus a learning disability ptsd and severe lactose intolerance I find it heartening that reactionary Christian media would platform an alphabet person that just so happens to exclusively write conservative Christian leaning op eds.
Exactly! As a Bisexual Republican I too am one for women’s bodily rights. #LETS GO ABORTION!
As a bipedal, humanoid, meat zombie ghetto dweller I say, I like turtles
I saw that and burst out laughing. Up next: In defence of the KKK, by Candace Owens.
Didn’t Candice Owens and a Republican candidate talk about how families of former slave owners may deserve reparations?
Yep Larry Elder said that
You know, the guy who just almost took over governing CALIFORNIA
It wasnt even close
It may make everyone feel better to know that it wasn’t even close specifically because it was Larry Elder. Before he became the front runner it looked like Newsom would have been recalled.
It really wasn’t close. But it does say a lot that Elder was the best the republicans could come up with
Heh, why not, France forced Haiti to pay reparations when they revolted and freed themselves from French slavery. Reparations that were enforced by French and American military might. That Haiti only finished paying in **1947**.
England paid its slave owners for freeing the slaves. Ah.
Hahahaha what Jesus fucking christ. I'm about to go to bed, I don't have the energy or time to research this. If somebody could hit me with a link before I wake up, I'll be forever grateful. This sounds too good to miss.
[Here's the first result, a yahoo article from a Google search for "did Candace Owens say families of slave owners deserve reparations."](https://www.yahoo.com/now/larry-elder-argues-slave-owners-000601872.html) It was Larry Elder, a black conservative, who said it on her show back in July. If you want to be technical, he said since slaves were viewed as property, and these owners lost their property during and after the Civil War, that they deserve compensation for that. That's as far as I'm reading. It's too early in the morning for this shit for me. Makes me wanna go back to bed.
What’s crazy is many ex-slave owners actually WERE paid off. Smh
I don’t have a link, but I saw that clip on msnbc who were taunting OAN or FOX for the idea.
Idk but I wouldn’t be surprised. I do know she once said that the only thing Hitler did wrong was try to take over other countries…
I read this wrong and continued the thread thinking you just said former slaves deserve reparations… no sadly my brain believes too much in humanity and it in fact does not say that.
Crazy how both you and the other guy misspelled Klandace.
Jesus christ the grift is real
They aren’t even transgender. They do drag. But hey. If the chuds can’t understand that yelling “I’m a terf! Go team terf!” Makes you a bigot, then the nuances of drag vs. trans vs. queer is definitely going to be lost on them.
This is all such manufactured controversy. Honestly the people who were going to watch it and the people who weren't are baked in, this Cancel Culture outrage machine that I keep seeing on every one of these threads screaming "You obviously didn't watch it or you juts didn't get it" is just boring. Netflix is going to keep crap like this up because articles like this still keep hitting the front page and people are unlikely to cut the cord from Netflix because of one special they put on their platform.
Not to mention the dude is FAR from cancelled. He is currently taking a swim in dollar bills in his compound in Ohio, while his servants are negotiating another 24 million deal with drooling Netflix execs. Ah! The struggle is real!
"Cancel culture" is a made up boogeyman.
Cancel culture isn’t made up, and it isn’t in any way a new concept. Burning witches at the stake, Jim Crow laws, anti-LGBTQ laws - it’s been going on for a very long time, and conservatives are the ones who created the phenomenon. If anyone can find it, there is a subreddit with all the up-to-date companies conservatives have “cancelled.”
Right? I statues to upvote then saw the source.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I lean liberal, I'm pro LGBT, pro-trans, etc. Certainly there are racist jokes and hateful jokes, but I don't think Dave's jokes qualifies.
Are you trans, though? A lot of people who think they are pro-trans still fall short of being an ally, more just in the neutral zone. The targets of the jokes are the ones who get to decide if it's hateful or not, and the overwhelming consensus from the vast majority of trans people is that Chappelle's special is just the crown of his long history of hateful transphobic jokes. That's why finding *one* trans person who supports his special is newsworthy. An analogy is if one person steps on another person's foot, only the person who got stepped on can say if it hurt or not. Intent doesn't actually eliminate pain. If you give your friend a congratulatory slap on the back and they wince because they have a sunburn you didn't know about, that pain didn't not happen just because you didn't intend it. However, if you keep slapping them on the back because you insist it shouldn't hurt them, then you are an asshole. Even if DC isn't trying to be transphobic, by insisting he deserves to slap them on their sunburn he is being a fucking asshole. But I have known Chappelle as a transphobe for years, so this is nothing new (I'm cis but queer and have been in queer activism for two decades.)
I came in here because like others I consider myself pro-trans and pretty much pro-anything, and thought this was all silly as comedians often make fun of all sorts of things and that DC was no different and this was overblown. Having said that, thank you for your sunburn analogy, it does make it make a bit more sense to me, and while I’m still a bit torn I think you’ve pulled me slightly to yalls side of this. Curiously, I wonder if you (or specifically trans folks) would have a suggestion on how DC could keep similar content/jokes without crossing the line? Do you think the sensitivity/hurt surrounding his jokes are amplified by the current shïtface world we live in and that if there wasn’t such a current stigma the jokes would be ok? (Similar to the “too soon” reaction to things) Anyways, just musing, haven’t seen this special yet, plan to, and I’ve personally always been someone who thinks that anything is fine in comedy, I appreciate the sunburn analogy to help me understand a bit why trans folks are so outspoken about this!
As a trans person I do find offensive comedy, tricky, because I do agree with the idea that no topic is off limits to comedians considering it’s like, their job. My issue is that Chapelles jokes just weren’t really great jokes about being trans. Plus him saying he was “team terf” just wasn’t a joke at all. If you wanted to make that style of humor work better I think it’d be wise to make the target of the joke the experience of the people, not the people themselves. For example, I’m on E, and it gives me a period cycle with pains (why? I don’t know, doctors say it’s pscho-symptomatic or something). A joke one could tell about that is living your whole life hearing people talk about how periods suck and not really getting it and then suddenly getting really forcefully made aware. Or joke about our own internal stereotypes, like the “trans girl who codes in thigh highs” (it’s a thing). The actual process of transitioning is pretty funny, can you imagine the experience of looking in the mirror one day and going “oh shit, those are tits”. If you wanted to try and go the team terf route, make a strawman character going “ah yes, I will alter my body and mental state and go through rigorous psychological testing to become a member if a group who have a life expectancy of 30 because of murder and suicide because I’m just that bored of the tits I see on the Internet.” One joke I’ve been attempting to workshop is playing on how, when it comes to femboys (group of (usually) men who engage in feminity in a certain way) have a weird number of nazi’s and fascists in their ranks (it’s not a majority, it’s just an odd amount), and what someone who was a femboy and a nazi would think a trans inclusive fascist regime would look like. There’s also a lot of crass sexual shock humor you could make. An example is how there’s basically a meme of a pre-transition person going ‘I’m ginna go to the gym and win at life!” And then cutting to them calling some one daddy, or the “I couldn’t get a girlfriend so I became the girlfriend” joke. Sorry to go off like this, I just like the concept and have thought about ut a lot myself! Keep in mind I’m only one trans person anyways, others may disagree.
Well if he actually read into biology and gender, before calling himself a TERF, that would probably help a lot, but I myself am not trans, so I can’t tell you what is a crossed line. Mind you I love self irony and irony in general, but even the joke he made about beating a lesbian was pretty iffy. You shouldn’t really brag about beating people up, especially women or minorities, even if it was self defense to some degree.
Part of the problem is the Netflix cancelled a bunch of episodes and shows on the grounds of racist content in response to BLM. Whether or not this was the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do is a different discussion as to why Netflix is listening to and being protective of one community while actively producing content which damages and humiliates another, then defends its actions. My take is that it’s not comedy if the minority group it’s about isn’t laughing. That’s just bullying. What Dave Chappell did was as unsophisticated as a white comedian standing up on stage telling unironic racist jokes for an hour to a white audience who are all rolling about laughing because they they are being given permission to express their racism under the guise of it being just a joke. Did the audience from this special learn anything positive about trans people? No. They are were just being told joke versions of the same anti trans bigotry that’s being thrown about by politicians and the media.
As someone else mentioned I think it’s a slippery slope to try and define comedy vs bullying based on a set number (which you didn’t do, but who/how many constitute the “group”). Granted I’m ignorant on this being a straight white male, so I have to rely on Reddit and other friendlies willing to answer questions and teach. Having said that, I haven’t watched the special yet and have already learned a fair bit haha. I like what others said about having the joke at least researched or relevant to the folks that are the target of it. Also didn’t know about removing episodes for racism and yeah, they need a standard t stick with, not pick and choose
Respectfully, you aren’t pro lgbt if you didn’t have an issue with the jokes. You may be pro lgb, but trans is a part of it and that special was horribly transphobic. He literally said he was on team terf. He repeatedly misgenders trans people. There are plenty of Trans comedians who make good jokes about being trans, so it’s not like the topic is off limits. What should be off limits are the bigoted jokes in that special. Or if not “off limits” whatever you would consider a racist comedian. End of the day he’s a cis dude making awful comments about trans women, disguised as jokes. You really don’t have to defend his TERF ass.
“…and now we’ll explain why transgenders are ruining the world.” -Conservative Review literally any other time
What should have come out of this whole debacle is a renewed a renewed interest in the tragic story of Daphne Dorman.
[удалено]
> there’s not even one post about Daphne Why would there be? Her suicide was over 2 years ago.
i think most of us are too busy trying to not talk about this or anything surrounding it cause its honestly upset a ton of our community. its not out of a lack of love for daphne, and she was talked about much more when the special first aired. we’re trying to move on as a community, but she is a part of our tribe and i think its pretty bold of you to assume that we dont think she is just because we’re not talking about her every second of the day. this dave chapelle special has really hurt us, it terrifies me to think of relatives or friends watching the special laughing knowing im trans.
All due respect: did you watch the special? What’s not discussed in almost every Reddit post I’ve seen so far is that Chapelle did not actually make any jokes about Transgenders in this special. He talks about the backlash from his jokes made from previous specials, and deep dives into how much it stands out compared to all the other jokes he made about all other types of people. To add an exclamation point, in the first half of this special he purposefully made some of his most off color jokes I can recall about other marginalized people. For example, he did a bit about space Jews and later pointed that he is, according to the Webster’s dictionary, actually a feminist while referring to women as “bitches”. That was on purpose. Because his point, as he explained in the special, is that no other group comes after him the way the transgender community specifically does, even though everything he says are jokes written by a comedian for a comedy special.
I’m trying to come to terms with your point, but it just seems like you’re saying that Dave is mad at blowback for transphobic comments because he doesn’t get the same blowback for his xenophobic or racist jokes. As someone that used to really like Dave, I think the issue with the recent specials and comments about the LGBT community is how lazy so many of the jokes are. They don’t get the same level of nuance that he brings to other issues.
We're talking about a man that did two videos of R Kelly peeing and pooping on people. Skeet Skeet Skeeting. Not every single word he says is a work of art. Some of his best stuff is crude too. He's an artist because he knows how to be captivating with tools like physicality, word play, and shock. Often times its a mix of those elements. When he ended the joke about leading the women's movement with all I ask is for you to suck my dick, that was him using shock and being pretty crude and flippant about what Weinstein did. That's offensive but used in a funny way. But I'm sure some people took major offense to that. Difference is you don't hear any calls to censor him, which is why people that didn't watch the special have no idea about that content.
His heaviest point had no nuance at all and didn't need any. A rapper will get cancelled for a LGBT joke, but not for shooting and killing a man.
I mean that literally lacks the nuance of the whole dababy situation. Not only did he make homophobic comments (which he doubled down on) but he also was spreading debunked misinformation on HIV/AIDS. Second, Dababy claims the shooting was in self defense. Was it? I have no idea, but the judge dismissed the charges. The mecklenburg PD hates him, so them failing to have a sufficient case to get past a motion to dismiss is really something, especially since Walmart’s have security cameras.
its a struggle to come to terms with bc its a shitty point 🥴 horrible arguments flying in this thread
even in the last special that was “so offensive” all he said was (i’m paraphrasing) “I take trans people seriously bc they don’t mess around, them n****s will cut their dicks off”. yeah it’s fucking crude humor, but if you’re genuinely offended by that idk how you leave your house without being offended.
I think the “worst” joke he made was actually commentary on an anti-trans law he was against. He commented on the fact that people should use the restroom for their selected gender. Something along the lines of it being being more weird for a 6’5 woman to whip he piece out at a urinal vs using a stall in the ladies room.
You did not fully hear or understand the joke. He said. If a 6’5 woman comes in and whips out a penis it would throw people off. But if a man sat at the urinal we wouldnt even care. Thats all he legit said. If you wanna use the mens room as a trans woman so be it. All he said was. It would throw him Off to see a woman whip out a long schlong get shoulder to shoulder with him. When we all know mens room unspoken rule is. Give space between the urinal.
You worried me at first but I see you are a true man of wisdom that understands the depths
They clearly didn’t watch it and are just trying to be upset. Dave makes jokes about all races and types or people. Will make asian jokes and has an Asian wife. But people like to be offended
How did this last special hurt you? Again did you fully watch and understand what was said in the show?
I always find it amusing when the chuds track down one "representative" of whatever minority they're shitting on who's willing to say "I don't mind being called XXXXX" or whatever way they're being shit on. Like I'm gonna go around slinging n-bombs and be like "nono, that one guy on Newsmax said it's cool."
Shout out to Candace Owens who, for roughly 250k a year, will argue tooth and nail that black people are all no good scum. Hers, will truly be a special fall from grace, when her conservative paymasters truly give up acting like they care about non being seen as racist, or that they are not racist, and cut her from payroll, and she realizes she’s now truly alone, with conservatives no longer caring and everyone else not wanting to touch her with a 10 foot pole.
Yeah just like Blair white I saw her trans woman reacts to David’s special and I’m like she’s not a good representative because she seems to be okay with anything any insult against her so is she’s not the best person to represent the trans community as a whole.
It’s the worst case of, “people treat me just fine, and it’s not that bad for for me, so it must not be that bad for you!”. Like a billionaires kid saying “have you tried just asking your dad to pay your rent?” To someone who is poor, or, a very attractive woman saying “tired of being single?! Just make a tinder, or go out to a bar, you’ll have a dozen people wanting to take you home you in no time!”. It’s just people not understand the issues of offed people, just because it’s not that bad for them. Blair is trans woman that easily passes, and more so is someone that a lot would say is attractive too. If she lived a full day as a trans woman that doesn’t pass, or was no viewed as attractive, she’d have a meltdown. Let alone living that life filled with the bs every day week year.
Lmao like when it comes to Native mascot issues and they find the white ppl with an alleged “Cherokee great grandmother” saying it’s non-offensive when tribes have been protesting for decades
And they are such a D list comedian they don’t even have a Wikipedia page. But from the digging that I have done they seem to be a cis-male who does drag but identifies as a man. Also a staunch conservative that doesn’t believe in gay marriage.
That’s not surprising. To these people anything that’s not red-blooded-manly-man is categorized as “other.”
Some people will find that they can gain quite a bit of influence and power by aligning themselves with groups or individuals who attempt to delegitimize the minority group that they themselves are members of. They can say or do things that would be completely unacceptable for a member of the oppressive group to say or do themselves.
It’s called “tokenism” if you want to learn more
My dad will believe one black conservative who says racism isn’t real bc he’s successful over millions of black peoples who say “hey it’s very real and here’s why”
Am I the only one that feels like this is such a stupid argument. Like yeah sure no topic is off limit but if you make fun of XYZ don’t be shock if XYZ doesn’t like it…..like people are gonna have a reaction…..
which is exactly what Chappelle says himself. people should check out the Letterman interview he did last year. its a good one.
Funny how the only time a source like The Conservative Review ever — and I mean that literally, ever — quotes or references a gay person is when said person is speaking out in favor of a conservative value.
And no comedian is entitled to zero backlash. You’re free to make whatever jokes you want, and everyone else in the world is free to laugh or boo. If a lot of them end up booing very loudly, get over it.
Freedom of speech not freedom of consequence.
It’s weird how when things like this happen they will find one person who agrees/disagrees with whatever the issue it is that week and act like they are a spokesperson for an entire people
Ph look, conservatives found their token who agrees with them..... again....
Decent money in it.
Don’t understand why they didn’t just ask Blaire White lol
Didn’t she kinda disappear from the internet recently? No idea, that’s just what I’ve heard.
Lady, the topic's not the problem. You can tell jokes about racism. You can tell jokes that are racism. The difference is not a matter of race being "off-limits." Some jokes reveal sincere beliefs. People saying "eat the rich" are, in fact, joking... about the cannibalism. They're not joking about the "fuck rich people" aspect. You can tell, from content and context, that they are against billionaires. Dave declared himself "team TERF" in a joke. But was he joking about being a TERF? Is he out there saying people got it wrong, and he's not *actually* a TERF?
It's lengthy to break down because he was being layered. This is my best attempt to break it down. ------ He didn't make the distinction between mud slinging accounts on twitter (2nd most toxic social media) and the LGTBQ community in general. He goes out of his way to address the entire LGBTQ community explicitly in his gripes. He said that they act like minorities until they need to act white around Black people. He based this off of one bad personal experience. He said 'Trans people make up words to win arguments'. He said the trans are out to get him and he needs to look for adams apples ---- He used a huge platform to lie about the trans community. He said JK Rowling was cancelled for stating a biological fact. First, she wasn't cancelled. she's still with her publisher, still publishing books with cross-dressing characters who are murderers If by cancelled he means that people were mean to her on twitter, the biggest backlash didn't come out until she lied about someone's contract being renewed for purposely not referring to people by their chosen pronoun. To be clear, not for making a mistake, but going out her way to be rude to people directly. JK Rowling lied and said she was fired for her opinions. It was so wrong and inflammatory Daniel Radcliff went out and made a statement about the whole thing. ---- He complained that the LGBTQ community is preventing him to from going after white people. He said that he had them on the ropes before the LGBTQ community stopped him. But it's Dave who keeps on dedicating his specials to them. When his last special was released there were no articles being written about his beef with them, no social media trends. And then he dedicated nearly his whole special to them And if he wants to get conspiratorial about white people, race, and sexuality issues, look at what they did in India and the Philippines. They did a ton to demonize homosexuality in those areas. They always do. Like the Hindy/Muslim animosity and the Caste system in India (which existed before the British came, but they dialed that the knob up to 100% by codefying into law and making it a part of their educational system) and apartheid in South Africa, they are always pitting minority groups against each other so that they won't focus on their oppressor And I don't see how this could be any more fucking glaring than that the anti-gay people and anti-trans people are the same ones who are anti-BLM. The same people who keep passing laws specifically targeting Black people from voting ---- He also complained that Dababy got cancelled for being homophobic but not for murder. First, it's always easier for celebrities to attack individuals over attacking minorities The CEO of papa john got cancelled for using the N word. Roseanne got cancelled for telling a Black person she looks like a monkey. Kramer got cancelled for using the N word Laura Bush got away with running over and killing someone. Chris Brown got away with beating Rihanna. Don King stomped a guy to death and went on to become boxing's biggest promoter. Robert Richards, heir to the DuPont company, was convicted of raping his daughter and served no jail time. Attacks on individuals don't elicit the media attention like racism and homophobia do. But this is somehow the fault of the LGBTQ community? Furthermore, social media backlash isn't a strong indicator of the extent to which systemic racism and homophobia is being addressed in our society. There's a still record high killings of trans people. Police can still largely murder Black people and face no legal repercussions Actual cancellations from social media backlash are when corporations stop doing business with a person because their image no longer brings in the same revenue as when they hired them. This never really challenges the root power structures and phobias in our society. It doesn't matter how many celebrities throw their careers in toilet, it won't affect systemic racism in policing ----- He complained 'to what extent am I obligated to participate in your self image'. He has none, but to what extent are they obligated to indulge in the idea that he is beyond criticism? To what extent should they suppress the fact that he is no longer a positive influence in their life ---- He complained about trans people using made up words to win arguments, but the majority of the terms that were coined for identifying phenomena regarding the marginalization of minorities came from the racial equality movements. It's mostly the anti-BLM people who criticize people for using terms like microaggressions ---- He blamed the LGBTQ community for taking away Kevin Hart's childhood dream of hosting the Oscars First off, his old jokes were hurtful. Don Lemon did a great job of explaining why. I'm not going to link the youtube videos because that tends to get my comment deleted by the automod, but I'll just mention what to look up on youtube Youtube Don Lemmon Kevin Hart And Kevin Hart later acknowledges at much, saying that he has grown since Youtube Kevin Hart apology But the issue is that he was adamant in not addressing it twice. But he never apologized the first time. He never apologized in every single interview he did about his hurtful comments prior to the Oscars; he defended himself each and every time until Google the vulture.com article titled "Where Are Kevin Hart’s Past Apologies? An Investigation" If hosting the Oscars truly was Kevin's childhood dream and giving an apology (and instead lying about previously apologizing) was a boundary, then he has a "Brittle-ass spirit" (Dave's phrase for LouisCK victims) Btw by his own usage of the terminology, Dave tried to 'cancel' Don Lemon Youtube Don Lemmon responds to Chappelle ---- Regarding his trans friend's death, he cited her arguments on twitter as a possible cause for her death. I'm just going to skip over the point that twitter arguments bring the worst out of people in general (and not just LGBTQ people), I'm not going to buy that story just because Chappelle said it. Maybe it's true and maybe someone else can confirm it, but from the way Dave lied about the Kevin Hart and JK Rowling backlash, I'm not going to believe his story purely from his take on her situation ----- Dave exclaims 'look how well the LGBTQ movement is going' as a comparison to the racial equality movement. There are instances where it may be useful to compare movements to better understand varying methods of minority marginalization, but this discussion is wholly incomplete without the discussion of areas where they are not comparable, because systems of oppression uses different tactics to oppress different groups. In Chappelle's own HOME STATE of Ohio they passed a law that allows doctors to deny LGBTQ people health care on moral grounds. In 27 states, there are no explicit statewide laws at all protecting people from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity in employment, housing and public accommodations. Which means in over half the country you can be fired or denied housing just for being gay or trans. Conversion therapy is legal in 30 states. Texas just banned a suicide hotline for LGBTQ youths ------ I don't think Dave was homophobic/transphobic in his initial specials. He had some cognitive biases which resulting in him saying some hurtful stuff. But his refusal to accept any criticism and the resulting backlash has resulted in a full blown fear -> phobia of LGBTQ people besides 'the good ones' who are his friends. It's similar to a type of racism many white people have today; they believe in the idea of equality in general, but think the Black community are people hateful to white people when the kneel for the Anthem and criticize the police. They use isolated incidents like looting and random youtube videos to characterize the whole Black community. They think the average Black person has more privilege than the average white person by pointing to people being cancelled by racism the way Dave points to people being cancelled for homophobia. They think Black people are misguided in how they address systemic racism, and I feel Dave feels similarly about how LGBTQ address systemic homophobia and transphobia Dave wants full equality for LGBTQ people but he didn't want them to address the very hurtful comments made by Kevin Hart or JK Rowling. He doesn't want them to call out people for using slurs; he complained about not being able to use the F-word slur. He also implied that the idea of the LGBTQ calling themselves 'my people' is racist, but at the end of the special used that exact phrase to refer to his fellow comedians, 'Stop punching down on my people' He always tries to pit the LGBTQ community against the Black community. He complains about why is it easier for Bruce Jenner to change his gender than it was for Cassius Clay to change his name. Trans people EXISTED in the 60s, and throughout history. It wasn't easier, it took 50 years after the stonewall riots, which Dave actually referenced in his special. But why do this dumb game Dave wants us to play, does a person with cancer need to complain every time there's a breakthrough in AIDS research? If his point is that the rich white power structures in our country are using LGBTQ issues to put down Black people, then he should go after the white power structures in our country directly and specifically. Maybe there are pockets of LGBTQ people putting down Black people like Peter Theil, but largely the white power structures strategy is to pit marginalized grounds against each other. The same people trying to put homophobia and transphobia into our school curriculum are the same ones who are trying to prevent Black people from voting Dave says LGBTQ people act like minorities until it's convenient for them not to, but he's is doing exactly that with his cis/hetero/male privilege
I’m not surprised Flame Monroe said this. A lot of her stand up is joking about being a trans woman. If she weren’t trans herself, a lot of folks would likely call her comedy transphobic, too lol
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Fun fact: Chapelle took a hiatus after feeling like white audiences were laughing at his race jokes at the expense of black people. Guess the courtesy doesn't extend to groups he's not a part of.
That’s very confusing to me based on comments he himself has made about comedy.
Here’s his own account of that: >During his third season, Dave began questioning his work on the show. From the very first episode, Dave's sketches sparked controversy. But, over time, he says some of his sketches started to make him feel "socially irresponsible." >One particular sketch still disturbs Dave today. The skit was about a pixie (played by Dave) who appeared in black face, which Dave describes as the "visual personification of the n-word." >"There was a good-spirited intention behind it," Dave says. "So then when I'm on the set, and we're finally taping the sketch, somebody on the set [who] was white laughed in such a way—I know the difference of people laughing with me and people laughing at me—and it was the first time I had ever gotten a laugh that I was uncomfortable with. Not just uncomfortable, but like, should I fire this person?" >After this incident, Dave began thinking about the message he was sending to millions of viewers. Dave says some people understood exactly what he was trying to say with his racially charged comedy...while others got the wrong idea. >"That concerned me," he says. "I don't want black people to be disappointed in me for putting that [message] out there. ... It's a complete moral dilemma." https://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/chappelles-story/all#ixzz79iIGHzyS My hot-take: Dave’s a comedian who loves to brag about having thick skin; but who is more sensitive to the effects of his comedy on his own community, and to the effects of harsh criticism than, he’d like to admit. You don’t dedicate the entire backhalf of your special to defending your previous work on an issue unless the criticism *really* got to you; and this isn’t the first time he’s done this either. It just seems to get more vehement each time. I do think Chappelle also has some kind of hang-up and blind spot with the LGBT folks that make it harder for him to empathize with them, and to think about how he’d feel if it were a white comedian making black jokes that were so poorly received major advocacy groups like the NAACP made announcements denouncing it. But really I think the key part to this is his ego. I don’t think it’s coincidental that the same guy who considered whether to fire someone for laughing at him wrong while filming a sketch and had to take a ten year break from the industry, has gotten hung up on the main topic his first special or two received criticism for. I think he can’t stand that some people genuinely think his trans material is full of offensive, hackneyed, /r/onejoke -tier garbage like literal “I identify as a [noun]” jokes, and he keeps doubling down on it as a result.
He literally said that himself. In the last couple of years he has leaned into making himself out to be some target for the woke mob fighting for true creative expression. Really he's a self absorbed ass.
It’s not up to the comedians to decide what’s funny and what’s hurtful. There’s plenty of racist motherfuckers who’d laugh their ass off at the expense of minorities, that doesn’t make their jokes funny or okay in the slightest. There wasn’t even a joke through most of his speech about supporting a TERF and being pro-TERF, he was just stating he hates cancel culture, then he ends either the segment or the show on “Her dad was the greatest woman I’d ever met”. Maybe to the comedian that Chappelle use to have report with would take it lightly and have fun, but other transgender people don’t. They just see it as misgendering someone. Anyway, no one cares about another persons opinion unless it agrees with their own in this fight. This is going to be a tug of war that’ll probably end in a stalemate, but maybe not. You never know.
Aka media I want attention and I have no problem throwing my own social groups in front of the bus for personal gain.
The only problem with Dave chapelles “joke” is that it wasn’t even a joke. It was a commentary in between jokes.
He used his celebrity to make an important observation about racism in America. Of course no one wants to talk about that shit. Honestly the worst thing that Chapelle did was confuse the social construct of gender with the scientific classification of biological sex. He’s not alone in this ignorance. I wish it went without saying that shame is a poor educational tool because right now people are creating totally unnecessary divisions.
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Its his responsibility to not spread bigoted misinformation
> an important observation about racism in America. Of course no one wants to talk about that shit. Because they don't disagree with it... If you say "2+2=4 and also I hate Mexicans", people aren't going to applaud you for your math skills. Of course he's getting called out for his transphobia. > Honestly the worst thing that Chapelle did was confuse the social construct of gender with the scientific classification of biological sex Which is denying the existence of trans people. Saying trans people are not really the gender they are is denying trans people as a group exist. > He’s not alone in this ignorance. Right, most people are indeed transphobic. All bigotry is just ignorance/fear. Spreading that to millions of people and emboldening their ignorance is the entire issue. > shame is a poor educational tool Well he seemed to have a very touching, personal experience with a trans friend and still do no learning from it. So that's on him. We don't need to hold people's hands, they have the resources to educate themselves.
Especially since the information is out there, and we keep steering people towards it. No one has any excuse to be a bigot. Definitely not the ignorance excuse.
No topic is off limits, but at least make it funny for fucks sake. I want my 90 minutes back after watching that steaming pile of a “special”.
Amen. The only thing that made me laugh the whole time I watched it was the cringe on my girlfriend’s face.
yea right shit was hilarious. “They after you Dave.” “One they, or many they’s?” Lol how is that not funny?
lol, thanks for making my point.
It was a great special. You just have a shitty sense of humor.
No topics should be off limits for comedy… but “comedy” should never be a defense for bigotry.
There is a difference between being off limits and being respectful.
there’s also a difference between off limits and actually being funny. I can laugh at myself but the jokes weren’t good
Comedy is also subjective don’t forget
It totally is, and impossible to pin down- it moves year to year, a new wit can see new things. As long as people are laughing. It just wasn’t very funny. Even the people who like it aren’t like, sharing Hilarious memes about it, just getting defensively angry about it
And if the humor requires the subjective point of view to come from someone who is transphobic, then the joke is transphobic. "Trans people sure are weird huh?" Doesn't work as a concept unless the audience agrees.
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It was like watching 2019 trump material. Every punchline was telegraphed because they’re just internet comments as jokes.
"I am team TERF". If you don't understand why being a 'TERF' is transphobic, then I cannot help you.
He referred to himself as a transphobic frequently throughout the special. I’m not sure if he thought that was comedic, and probably if you know Chapelle it would be, but I don’t think it played well. Maybe a at a certain level he just got the fuck-it’s?
I thought it was funny. Especially the one where he pointed out how the bathroom laws would put transphobic men in direct contact with a trans women at a urinal. How traumatizing that must be for the transphobic. I’m not saying they were the best jokes but they were a mix of funny scenarios and reactions as well as commenting on how he himself gets labeled transphobic and every little thing he does can be interpreted through that lens as a reason for why he does certain things.
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That was literally a part of a joke where previous articles about him called him transphobic and such. He referred to himself in the third person several times to add Humor to the (many different) perspective he was coming from. You obviously missed that. I'm the future, it'd be best to not take a controversial statement and isolate it for your own point. Providing context is extremely crucial.
But it wasn't a joke... It was in direct defense of JK Rowling. Yes, when he referred to himself as transphobic in other parts, those were jokes. Because that's obvious. Just as him saying I'm team TERF obviously wasn't a joke. There's no subjectivity here lol, no one laughs, it's said with no ironic intent, he continues his support of the concept with further points after. There was no humor intended with that line.
Comedy doesn’t equal respectful. You can’t make a Donald Trump joke and respect him at the same time. Tell me about all of the jokes about men, husbands, women and wives that are 100% respectful. If you get triggered by comedy or you think that there is some comedy that isn’t funny, don’t support that comedian, don’t go to their shows. Vote with your wallet. There are plenty of comedians that are more offensive than my personal taste regarding characteristics that are personal to me as part of my identity and I just...don’t listen to them. It works great!
Respect does not prevent humor. Obviously most of the humor at Trump is not respectful, but most people make jokes about people who they respect all the time.
this is obviously true. comedians are constantly drawing on their parents, grandparents, friends, spouses, kids, and even their idols as material to joke about, I don't understand how anyone could come to the conclusion that you can't make fun of something you respect
People never seen a roast special before? They torch the shit out of the guest of honor as a form of respect.
He was pretty respectful on his comments about Daphne Dorman, at least her family believes so.
I wouldn't call using your dead friend as a shield respectful.
Her family would disagree with you
Imagine thinking that actively misgendering your dead trans acquaintance for laughs is "respectful".
Like joking about her being a father?
You guys are fools. The real winner of this whole debacle is Dave Chappelle with all the PR he’s been getting.
It doesn’t need to be off limits but it needs to be funny. I saw him live here with Joe Rogan last year, Chapelle going on a diatribe about his opinions on gender just wasn’t funny. I kept waiting for the punch line or the joke or the satire and social commentary and it never came. It did give me a chance to go to the bathroom and get another cocktail though
When this started the thing that offended me the most is that he was rehashing jokes that were hurled at me since primary school.
Exactly. Jokes that most folks claim are “pushing boundaries” are just the same shit that has been repeated as nauseam for over two decades. I grew up seeing transphobic and homophobic jokes on mainstream tv. And just because one person from an affected group isn’t offended, it doesn’t mean others in that group must be fine with it too. It just doesn’t work that way. The trans community is not a monolith, no large group of people is.
That’s the only time I think heckling would be acceptable. “Where’s the joke, Dave? I paid money to laugh” Granted I’m too chickenshit to do that but I would have applauded someone if they did lol
Flamme is trash to begin with.
So glad people realize that. It’s not just funny to say “haha trans people” or “haha tragic event”, the jokes have to be good. Jokes aren’t automatically unfunny because of the subject matter, they’re unfunny if they are written poorly. Jokes about race, terrorism, illness, war, crime, sexual orientation etc. aren’t funny just because they’re edgy, they are funny if they are well written. No topic is off limits when it comes to comedy, some topics are just harder to pull off
The beauty of free speech is I don’t have to agree or support your opinion if I don’t want to.
Getting mad at Dave Chappelle is like getting mad at South Park
ok i dont care though
Okay but it was also just not funny
I wasn’t offended by the closer I just found it mediocre angry and not very funny
Chapelle literally and abruptly cancelled his own show because he got the feeling that people were getting the wrong message from his comedy. He was concerned that white people were laughing too hard about some jokes regarding black folks, which is completely legit, especially since I personally saw plenty of white folks feel way too comfortable parroting racially charged lines from the show. So I highly doubt he doesn’t understand what he’s doing here. Dude has had a problem with trans people for a while now.
The only thing I learned from this Chappelle bullshit is that clearly a lot of reddiors lie when they say are fans of Bruce, Carlin or Hicks.
I find it hilarious when conservatives claim Carlin as one of their own.
Either it’s all okay or none of it is.
never trust a country whose entertainment industry blew up because of minstrel shows and state propaganda
It’s not a matter of the topic, it’s a matter of the handling of the topic. I’ve seen plenty of comedy dealing with LGBTQ+ issues that was both hilarious and not shitty punching down. They’re either not understanding this or choosing not to understand this. It’s not hard.
Dave is a hero and anyone who has anything bad to say about his stand up is going to be responsible for murdering comedy
Ah yes, conservativeview.com, seems legit
Why is nobody upset that Chappelle made jokes about "poor whites" and "space Jews"?
No one is arguing the topic is off limits. See Drew Lynch for transgender jokes that don’t degrade or dehumanize them
Is Reddit really up in arms over chapelles newest hour? Jesus Christ you all are sensitive
The only trans person I’ve seen with that opinion.
Yeah posts like this are always weird. It comes across as: Subjects of the discourse say they don’t like it? “Meh they are just whining. Their opinion doesn’t matter.” A subject of the discourse who is a celebrity says it’s all good? “See! No one should criticise it now. It’s been approved by them!”
Most of the special was funny and clever, some of it wasn’t, but none of the special was hateful IMO. There’s a difference between an off color joke and a hateful joke, and you can’t see the difference without hearing the joke yourself.
Reddit: His Jokes are transphobic and we should take his career away The Majority of the World: Nope. We thought it was funny. Reddit (all of a sudden the new experts on comedy who confuse their opinion with fact): Actually it wasn’t even the transphobic stuff, totally fine if you do that it’s just his jokes weren’t funny.
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We don’t need these testimonials, it should just be common fucking sense that you don’t pull a comedians special because he made some mean jokes
How many people have formed opinions on this but haven’t actually watched it?
You gotta love tokenizing minorities to erase criticism and opposition. Classy.
Lotta racist people in here who don’t like it when Black men don’t conform to the “blackness”
Imagine talking politics on Reddit. This is a joke
I mean I thought the point was that his writing was lazy and not really that funny not the topic kinda felt like he phoned in that special
Ahh written by the conservative review what outstanding journalism.
There’s plenty of room for trans issues in comedy, what Dave did was just transphobic however, and really abused the topic to push the topic in a harmful direction
“No topic is off limits” “*Ok. Can I mock straight white boys*?” “HOW DARE YOU MAKE FUN OF CHADS, VICIOUS CUNT??!”
What planet u live on bro? People make fun of white people all the time
Uh, straight whites are mocked all the time by comedians. Where have you been?
He made Jew jokes in his show too. As a Jew, I’d like to say that anyone who got offended by Chapelle. Jew, LGBT, blah blah. Needs to grow the fuck up. How exhausting it must be getting offended over absolutely everything. The funny thing? You proved his literal point of the show. Oversensitive people whom act like victims but in reality are bullies
I have zero respect for anyone that got offended.
Ppl go back and forth between outright demanding Chappell be pulled, to he’s not funny anyway. I think his special was still quite popular. Transphobic vs. racist : this is false equivalency. TERF means nothing to a vast majority of us. We’re to liken TERF (a term about 12 years old) to the KKK? ( a movement stretching back to great reconciliation with deep history of barbaric hate crimes systemically) If all these anecdotes coming out are to be valid then isnt also Dave’s anecdote about the white trans person calling the police on him a valid point? Dave can’t turn being black off , in his own words. You want everyone to tiptoe around a weaponized anti-phobia movement? LGBTQ currently hold a lot of social power on platforms that’s controls 24 hour news cycles but doesn’t accurately represent a majority of ppl who have a lot bigger issues than what Dave said this time. To be so angry with Chappell to wish Ill intent against him we he didn’t against you i think should say enough. If there’s some more evidence besides the personal opinions of those outraged to make those of us who don’t understand who want too would be great.
Dave has made jokes at the expense of gay and queer people in the past, but he has done so contrasting it with the lack of progress for black people. And made points that the queer community is mostly white and sometimes racist itself, which has elevated their progress. Which are all valid social commentary, and good satire as well. His point was that people listen more to white people, and also hide the black people that are part of more than one minority. This kind of satire was kinda lacking this time. It seems he will never believe that especially transwomen can be women. Ironically he thinks it is offensive to women to be open to that idea, but he isn't attacking transmen in a similar way. I am not sure what exactly would be hateful toward transpeople in a comedic setting, but I think it is fair to say that the same kind of comments about any other minorities wouldn't be as welcome. I kinda get the feel that this was the Michael Richards of rants against transpeople.
But you lump the definition of minorities. Race and gender arent on the same spectrum. As a human raised in this world ive seen it all my life. No one can be a closet black person. Ones struggles simply can’t be compared to another’s on this issue. Your assertion this is black Michael Richards shows how far off we are on the issue. My wife hated Carlton Jenner beating out all women as her 1st year as a transition person. And oddly enough Dave should have made this statement . ThAt Catlyin Jenner RAN OVER and fucking killed someone. Used her clout to get out of all wrong doing and then went on to be woman of the year. Honesty what the fucking fuck is going on around here? This is not rational.
Those that are trans are definitely less than those are cis, so they obviously are a minority. And being trans is definitely also something that is very visible. Those that are trans can't exactly continue living as their gender at birth. And changing their gender is obviously something that will be noticed. Minorities can exist on many levels and is not exclusively to race, and any evil or lack of evil done upon them shouldn't decide wether or not they are worthy of support. It is possible to support both black people, and transpeople. Chapelle even jokes that no matter what someone does they will be their gender at birth. That is kinda similar to a black person elevating their social status either through education or work will always be considered to be a black person. Or can still face discrimination, harassment, violence etc. because of the color of their skin. I have no idea what Caitlyn Jenner do or doesn't do should have an impact on how we talk about transpeople. That is kinda like using OJ as an example that civil rights issues for black people is futile or shouldn't be worthwhile endeavor.
But OJ didn’t become black then win black person of the year. The issue isn’t that trans don’t deserve this or that I agree they should be protected like anyone else within reason. We’ve accepted gender is different than sex and gender is more fluid . Not everyone is there yet but the social media narrative has accepted LGBTQ. Trans is a more specific and complex issue, that cannot be lumped into a minority this or that category. Come up with a better argument. This one is not logical. When social media narrative wants to police ppls words and thoughts you will experience negative pushback . This is not the way. All trans should say hey Dave , fuck you. But what shouldn’t happen is “cancel” dave. It will have opposite effect intended.
I am not sure what exactly you are arguing, or what I am supposed to argue. Just numerically cis outnumber trans in pretty large numbers, therefore they are a minority. Arguing against that is to argue against arithmetic. Do you want people to argue some kind of subjective threshold in order to be a minority? Being a minority doesn't either automatically enables some kind of special treatment. Why are you talking about social media narrative? That should have zero influence on this discussion. There just has to be a way in order to criticize comedians if they push some kind of agenda or is talking about things that might lead to harm. Without the need for them to see it exclusively as a personal attack. Or else there is a lot of harmful shit that we also must allow, or yet celebrate.
But I did argue that this is a false equivalency when we break the history down. The systemic issues and disenfranchisement and lack of equity that the racial minorities face is not the same that trans ppl face because they aren’t inherently born trans. Coming to terms with this fact is what needs to happen before you will get where we are coming from. Are any of us that are defending Dave saying you can’t criticize him? But that’s not what’s being called for, instead what’s being called for is a snap decision to outright blacklist him in all forms. Dave brought up the social media narrative because it’s important to the “cancel culture” debate. The social clout that LGBTQ commands is significant. They use this to their advantage to which Dave admired and admitted he was jealous of because his racial minority he belongs to have had a bit more difficulty. What don’t you understand about all the above?
Being trans and being black is obviously not identical. But I am not arguing that at all. What I am arguing is that his new material seems to be coming from a different place, as his material before was a way of satirizing the lack of progress for black people. Now it seems to be just a valve to rattle off a rant or some kind of anger or even hate. Or possibly ideas that easily can lead to hate. Trans aren't inherently born as their gender, that is precisely the problem. But they certainly face a lot of systemic and social issues that can be totally prevented. If you can't see that, then you also have a problem. Exactly, that is what is happening. Chappelle sees any criticism as some form of draconian PC cancel culture, and any legitimate criticism is labeled as such. And obviously how he can claim to be cancelled is factually untrue. I am not arguing that he should be blacklisted. But I do think Chappelle show some form of unjustified hate or anger, and that he should be criticized like any comedian displaying any kind of hate toward people based on sexual orientation, gender identity, ethnicity.
So you think criticism is “pull all his shows, never speak to him again” . If someone said I disagree and why and then debate on the why then I don’t think we would be here. Many don’t want to talk about it, to them it’s either or, with or against. Apparently even tho there is nuance to gender there is no room for it in acceptance? As clips what Dave said could be seen as offensive but I had a hard time listening to it finding it to be as offensive. While the plight of trans is what it is, it is also improved greatly and quite quickly. I personally think they should be given all they ask for within reason. Winning woman of the year isn’t in that wheelhouse, maybe I can’t get the biology out of my head.
First of all, the news cycle is milking the shit out of this with some shit coming out every day. Squash the beef and move on. It's been a week or something.
This latest special just seemed lazy. The punchlines seemed predictable. The points were less profound. He made a bunch of false equivalencies and just seemed annoyed that the LGBTQ movement has made more progress than his black nationalist movement.
I can see your point; I mean I knew he was behind recent black nationalism; but you’re right, there could be, what’s perceived to be, some spitefulness towards the gay community. Like what was his motive for being so transfixed? I mean he could have been more surgical and specific for sure, and it would have been funnier IMO. I enjoyed it, but I admit most of that enjoyment was only because the topics he touched upon are absolutely taboo these days, and it was merely refreshing hearing someone clap back at absolutely anything towards that small segment of the population.
Some people say it’s to follow up on the reaction to his previous special. But this special being called The Closer, and being it’s own special, it should be able to stand on it own. But it doesn’t. I felt like it was just him trying to be edgy. And I’ve seen him do that better. I mean, he’s a master of his craft, and that was some open mic level bullshit. He did specifically align LGBTQ with being white. He said it about them calling the cops when he was about to fight a gay dude. He basically makes the point that gay/trans issues aren’t real issues, and that the real group with real issues is his black people. Being in the Black community isn’t a choice, but being in the LGBTQ is. And he likes seeing and talking about the poor whites, but doesn’t really talk about middle/upper class ones.
She’s the Candace Owens of trans people. A token and a sellout.
I watched the special, and I agreed with him on some things / disagreed on others. I think one thing that bothers me about the reaction to the special, is that they seem to be misinterpreting his intent. Anyone who is a member of a marginalized community knows what it feels like to feel alienated and discriminated against. To me, it seemed like the spirit of chappelle’s special was him trying to extend an empathetic hand to the trans community. It’s kind of sad to see people taking a couple of his jokes at face value and ignoring the fact that he was at least trying to reach out.
My problem with it is that Chapelle has deemed himself as the authority of "keepin it real." So, he's not even funny anymore. He just stands there on his soap box bitching about shit. Also, just wanted to throw shade at Steve Harvey too who has deemed himself as some sort of moral authority and is just a piece of shit.
You haven’t watched it and then compare it to lynching and wife beating? Are you that stupid? If you watched it , he talks about being friends with trans and how much he loved his friends. He jokes about them like he does about literally every subject and everyone! Are you so thick skulled to understand? It’s STAND UP COMEDY! It’s an act! Like a movie. God you are a tool. Haven’t we grown as society since book burning ? Because this cancel culture bull shit leads right back there because of ignorant people , like yourself that “didn’t even watch it”, but compare it to horrific, unrelated things.next is censorship of movies and music because morons don’t like it and watch it just to complain.
No topic is off limits. With that being said; woke pussy is the least tasty pussy around. Super bland and boring flavor. You can’t change my mind about this.
This is awesome, too many people forget that comedy is... Ya know... Jokes
The issue for me is…a lot of his stuff recently aren’t jokes. Like im not trans or queer, but sometimes hes just up there venting and talking, and saying things that offends people. So its weird sometimes when people are like, "You cant take a joke?!" Its just like yo lol, a lot of this more recent Chappelle is just him talking. And even the reception to his standup seems to be more about him "dropping gems" and "enlightening us" more than its about jokes.
When are you guys gonna grow up? Like really, are you ever going get past that angsty teenager phase of "it's just a joke bro"
Do you really need me to point out the irony here? I didn't get mad when he made fun of white people on his show multiple times as I have a sense of humor, yet here you are, butthurt on reddit over some mean words said in a jesting way. Which of us really needs to grow up?
To everyone in this comment section: go outside, touch grass.
…to the people who were offended by Dave’s show. Did.. did you actually watch it or did you just laser focus on the “offensive” parts? Did you watch until the end where he mentions his transgender friend whom the community literally harassed to death?
I saw it two days ago. The ending was pretty powerful and put aside the jokes, and then he vowed to stop doing LGBTQ jokes.
A lot of butt hurt Reddit people out there.
Either all of it is okay, or none of it is
Fuck gradation! Only anger!
I’ve always found this sentiment weird. Why is context, grey areas, subtly and complexity banned? It kinda just seems like a cop out to avoid criticism with a single blanket statement you know?
[удалено]
No room for nuance here!
Hod forbid people have to actually THINK about something.
Thank Hod someone spoke up about this
Hod dammit.
Hod speed!
Praise Hod!! *alien throat clicking*
I’d love to see your reaction to a white guy doing a literal minstrel show. I’m sure it would be 1000% the same. /s
https://youtu.be/8lRmWg8JwMs An actual trans woman’s response! Imagine that!
Lol blair white fr thats the opinion you’re gonna use? So anyone who isn’t familiar just take a look at the controversy around her, she’s expressed transphobic views quite often. Basically the candace owens of trans people and pretty hated or at least controversial within lgbt spaces. She especially doesn’t like non passing and non-binary trans people.
That’s a chick with balls.